The feds will be diluting 10% ethanol to 15%, which some auto manufacturers say you shouldn’t use, but…
Posted by AwedBySequoias@reddit | Autos | View on Reddit | 62 comments
…today I checked the pump when I got some of what I usually get, which I’m sure is E10 (and 87 octane) and NOWHERE did it say E10 or anything about ethanol content anywhere on the pump.
How the hell are we going to tell which one to avoid when the E15 comes out?! (I know they are saying E15 that it’s okay for cars 2001 and newer, but I’d rather go by what the manual says, especially when it says damage can result.)
randomFrenchDeadbeat@reddit
It cant damage your engine, thats just what manufacturers write to avoid liability
ThatGuy48039@reddit
The combustion part of your engine doesn’t care.
The fuel make-it-happener portion, and all the plastic and rubber parts to get fuel to the combustion portion, do care.
Making a vehicle that can use ethanol involves sensing the ethanol content in the tank, tuning the engine to run on the gas you have, and making sure nothing melts between the gas tank and the engine.
PracticalConjecture@reddit
As someone who works on small boat engines, I'd say more than half of issues I see with small outboard motors are the direct result of ethanol degrading and gumming up the carburetor, or ethanol eating the plastics in the fuel pump, or sludge clogging an injector.
You can't leave a tank of E10 for six months and expect a small motor to run reliably from it. E0, on the other hand, lasts well over a year.
Car engines are much less picky when it comes to fuel quality.
Skips-T@reddit
I mean, it could cause knocking which definitely can damage the engine.
dyebhai@reddit
No, it couldn't
asamor8618@reddit
Ethanol is higher octane than normal gas. Ethanol is more likely to reduce knocking than increase it.
seamus_mc@reddit
Why would a bearing care what kind of fuel you are running? Bearings dont touch fuel.
xampl9@reddit
This is still just a proposal. And a dumb one.
The only people I can see in favor of this are the corn farmers in the Midwest. Everyone else will be opposed - automakers, the oil industry, fuel distributors, and ordinary drivers.
HuyFongFood@reddit
Ironically, the corn grown for ethanol is not fit for consumption and is all around a terrible crop to grow.
So yeah, that fits the way these lobbyists and officials work :/
AwedBySequoias@reddit (OP)
Except people at the top are pushing for it right now for political reasons.
NitroBike@reddit
Yes and the reason is so their voter base can still believe that gas is not getting more expensive. It doesn't matter, with the way things are going we are bound to hit $10/gal. Surf the diesel and trucker subreddits and you'll see half the people saying dumb shit like "it's only expensive if you live in a blue state." even though it's getting more expensive everywhere.
AwedBySequoias@reddit (OP)
https://www.thedrive.com/news/the-feds-plan-to-start-diluting-gasoline-this-may-explained
PheonixOnTheRise@reddit
I found a pump by me that has ethanol-free 91… It’s like vitamin b for the truck. Runs so smooth
amanke74@reddit
There is a pump near me that sells 110 octane. It's on an old pump with rotary numbers so the highest they can charge is $9.99 for it.
seamus_mc@reddit
Unless you have an engine specifically tuned for it you will see no benefit.
amanke74@reddit
We use it for racecars. I have a buddy that fills one tank a year in his Harley to help clean out carbon, he said it shoots blue flames.
GrifterDingo@reddit
Carburated bike I hope, if it's leaded race gas. All the race gas pumps by me are leaded, which will ruin his o2 sensors if he's fuel injected.
seamus_mc@reddit
What kind of truck? I’d be willing to bet it is entirely in your head. People make a huge deal about eth-free but as long as you are actually using the fuel in your tank it makes no difference. Even my 1967 and 1969 vehicles run fine on e10. The problem is if you let the fuel get old and it absorbs water, but even then it’s not that huge of a deal if you use sta-bil in the tank. It also works in my 45 year old outboard two stroke because i dont let fuel sit for years before using it.
PheonixOnTheRise@reddit
Nah, 165K miles on a Tacoma. Startup with premium there’s small bit of knocking until it warms up. Zero knocking with the ethanol free. Ethanol has less energy than gas. Just the way it is.
dyebhai@reddit
Yeah, no. E10 is more resistant to knock than straight gasoline.
iBlameMeToo@reddit
I just moved to Central NY and ethanol free 90 octane is offered all over, I love it.
PheonixOnTheRise@reddit
Nice! Cortland area?
iBlameMeToo@reddit
More northwest from there, Utica area.
SaddestClown@reddit
$1 more a gallon?
PheonixOnTheRise@reddit
Same as premium, about $4.50
TheVillagePoPTart@reddit
It’s right about a dollar more than regular here in PA. Unfortunately it’s about 1.30-1.50 more per gallons than Sam’s Club or Costco regular which is a hard sell for me. The 96 ranger runs way better with it IMO but it is pricey.
mpgomatic@reddit
List of 2022 and earlier cars EPA-approved for E15:
https://www.mpgomatic.com/2022/04/16/list-of-cars-that-use-e15-gasoline/
ThatGuy48039@reddit
FWIW, the list is specifically for vehicles approved for a maximum of 15% ethanol. My 2011 Silverado is flex fuel (up to 85% ethanol), and not listed here.
mpgomatic@reddit
Cool! Do you run E85 or intermediate blends?
Ihate_reddit_app@reddit
E85 is great for making more power and can handle more compression. It's an easy way to make 20-50hp extra with essentially a tune.
It's horrible for fuel mileage though and reliability isn't there.
mpgomatic@reddit
I haven’t seen any studies on the long-term reliability of E85 vs E10 in a FlexFuel vehicle, but I haven’t looked in a while.
RIP_Soulja_Slim@reddit
Iirc the biggest issues with reliability are fuel system degradation over time, presuming the car was built with flex fuel in mind this shouldn’t be an issue.
Drunken_Hamster@reddit
This only goes to 2011... My Accord is from 03-07.
topcat5@reddit
If you get through the derangement of that OP it's only say they are going to allow E15 to be sold for a greater time through the year. It still has to be labeled E15.
It Does Not say that all gasoline is going to that dillution.
BaboTron@reddit
The manual for my car states it should never see anything in excess of 10% ethanol, and 0% being preferable. Why does the future keep getting worse?
We keep getting farther and farther from living in Star Trek, and closer to living in Idiocracy.
theyanster1@reddit
We are fully living in Idiocracy
seamus_mc@reddit
> Lexus recommends the use of cleaner burning gasoline Cleaner burning gasoline, including reformulated gasoline that contains oxygen- ates such as ethanol or MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether) is available in many areas. Lexus recommends the use of cleaner burning gasoline and appropriately blended reformulated gasoline. These types of gasoline provide excellent vehicle perfor- mance, reduce vehicle emissions and improve air quality.
It is literally recommended in your owners manual.
Methanol is not recommended, up to 10% ethanol is just fine.
BrightLuchr@reddit
E10 is standard unless you can find the rare station selling 94 octane premium gas. Going to E15... your ECU will handle that, probably, but it isn't necessarily good for your engine over the long term. The whole business has no benefit to do with the environment or fuel economy; this is just a farm subsidy in disguise. 45% of corn is grown for ethanol production, not feeding people or to tasty animals that feed people.
RedDuck1010@reddit
It’s hard to get a straight answer on ethanol because everyone has an agenda pro and con. It’s all about who makes the $.
From a technical standpoint anything up to E20 is ok in your vehicle or mower and you’ll not really notice a difference. Anything made after about 1992 is good to go. If you add E15 and have a problem you already had a problem and just didn’t notice it.
I ran two research programs for DOE at an independent lab 2006-2009. Fleets of cars and yard tools running E0, E10, E15, and E20 to full useful life. 120k miles on the cars and the manufacturer hour limit on yard tools. The fuel differences were negligible and not significant. Slightly lower fuel economy with more ethanol but it matched the lower energy content as expected. The results were matched at all 3 labs running blind studies.
Dadskander@reddit
Why take away the choice? E15 has been around for over a decade now and most people still choose an E10 blend.
Honestly with how prices have been on E15 lately, it's hardly economical to run given the drop in fuel economy, if it was like >20¢ a gallon less I could see it being favored more.
Anyone bitching about oil scarcity and us needing to use less (and thinking E15 is the answer) is an idiot. The fastest and most well developed way to use less fuel, that wasn't an option in the 70s, is to push more companies to embrace work from home policies again. Doesn't work for every industry, but it drastically reduces fuel use across America.
kinkycarbon@reddit
E15 just became legal to be sold in California, but I had yet to find one station in Los Angeles. So I mix E85 with supreme for my Civic.
Dadskander@reddit
That's ballsy
kinkycarbon@reddit
It’s a 2019 Honda Civic. Honda states in the owners manual the engine can do E15. The engine runs well on E35 with tuning and an ethanol kit for sensing alcohol in the fuel.
seamus_mc@reddit
Cheaper on the sign doesnt mean cheaper for actually driving because mileage goes down.
Dadskander@reddit
Yes, which is why it needs to be a good bit cheaper per gallon. Each vehicle will have their own math associated with that.
Bingo1dog@reddit
I miss when e15 was over $1/gal cheaper than 87.
Dadskander@reddit
Don't we all man... Good times, even if ethanol is dumb overall
shadows1123@reddit
Pumps don’t say E10, they say “all grades may have up to 10% ethanol”
AwedBySequoias@reddit (OP)
I do recall seeing an E10 sticker on a pump before, but in any case, when I got gas yesterday it didn’t say anything about ethanol content at all.
Amxela@reddit
E10 deez nuts
dpdxguy@reddit
Find a different gas station. They're required by law to disclose ethanol content. If they're breaking that law, God only knows what's in the gas they're selling.
aquatone61@reddit
I’ve seen an E10 sticker before and it was a different pump handle than the normal gas. The grades with specific ethanol contents will be labeled as such. Normal gas has up to 10% so the percentage isn’t guaranteed.
Im_100percent_human@reddit
Here is what it says in the warranty for my 2025 car: "Fuels containing up to 10% ethanol by volume may be used."
asamor8618@reddit
I don't see what all the fuss is about. I mixed 4.5 gallons of e85 with 12.5 gallons of e10 and my car ran fine and the fuel economy was barely affected. 19.4 mpg vs 19.7 mpg on normal e10.
Decent-Experience-8@reddit
Time to advance the timing and boost!
FordMan1976@reddit
Just for the ill-informed and those who don't really know anything, UNL has been running tests on their entire fleet of vehicles using only E35, not available anywhere, and it shows that not only does it not cause damage, but the vehicles ran better and achieved better fuel economy and power on the higher and defiantly not recommended ethanol blend. The problem that w=most people have with ethanol is that they've been getting very poor-quality gas from their local gas station and the ethanol breaks up the deposits left in their fuel system and thus there are issues. And im sure none of them could even identify a fuel filter on a vehilce because maintainence is what the deal does. Also, I have friends that have spoken to the industry professionals on both sides of this issue and the major manufactures and oil industry officials will publicly say its bad but when the mics are off, admit that Ethanol and especially the higher blends are a good thing.
seamus_mc@reddit
You can pick up power but there is no arguing that more alcohol makes more MPG, power goes up and mileage goes to crap.
newtekie1@reddit
Yep, the physics just does not support more MPG with more ethanol. The ethanol contains less energy, so it needs to burn more to get the same horsepower out of the fuel the more ethanol it has in it. That's just the scientific fact.
However, more horsepower is possible with higher ethanol in high compression/boost vehicles because of the higher octane. But, as you said, MPG goes to crap because you are burning more fuel.
newtekie1@reddit
They are not changing the normal gas you buy, and there is no proposal to do so.
The proposal is to lift restrictions on selling E15 gas in the summer months. E15 is marketed as Unleaded88 or Unleaded15. It has been being sold in the US for years now. And it is dispensed through a separate handle at the pump just like E85.
The article even explains this if you actually read it.
Remarkable_Ad5011@reddit
Just another way to push older vehicles off the road..
doggscube@reddit
We’ve been selling E15 for years. Regular/mid/premium is all still E10 and I haven’t heard about anything changing
AwedBySequoias@reddit (OP)
https://www.thedrive.com/news/the-feds-plan-to-start-diluting-gasoline-this-may-explained