This is my second time living abroad, and I feel like spending time on the local language is a waste of time.
Posted by Proof_Mycologist_220@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 35 comments
My first foreign country was Germany. Before moving there in my early twenties, I passed the B2 exam even before arrival because I wanted to show respect for the local culture. However, I realized that speaking German did not provide any real advantages during my daily life. After living there for seven years, I failed to make a single German friend, so I eventually left and moved to a neighboring country. I used to be very stressed about studying German, yet people rarely paid attention to my efforts. Since I am not white, people often spoke to me in English anyway as long as I remained silent.
Consequently, I expected the same situation in my second country. I have been living here for nearly five years now, but I only took the B1 exam because I mainly use English. Surprisingly, I feel much less stressed and have managed to make more local friends compared to my time in Germany. I now question whether it is truly necessary to spend so much time learning the local language. I believe that passing the B1 exam is the most cost-effective approach for living abroad.
HVP2019@reddit
Not learning local languages is a gamble.
I don’t recommend for immigrants to take this gamble because there is too high risk of negative consequences.
This is less risky for expats / people who move temporarily.
For immigrants I recommend to include “costs” of having to learn local languages as price to pay for the benefits you will be getting.
If such costs are too much then don’t migrate.
If you are ready to gamble and decided you will not be learning local languages then be prepared for potential negative consequences.
I have been immigrant in US for 25 years. Theoretically I could survive with absolutely bare minimum because my husband and eventually my kids would be to take over. But then I would be too dependent on them, there would be also many other negatives. Sure I could find friends who speak my language. Sure I can watch American movies with translated subtitles and watch news made for immigrants in foreign language. But I don’t think i would enjoy such live in a bubble.
So no I don’t think that learning local language was waste of my time.
Proof_Mycologist_220@reddit (OP)
In the US, English is the local language, so it's a completely different story compared to European countries. Here, most educated people in their 20s and 30s can speak English to some extent.
HVP2019@reddit
lol. I am from Europe. I don’t recommend coming to my country expecting to settle there long term without learning language of my country.
Proof_Mycologist_220@reddit (OP)
There are many immigrants in my country these days, but I don't care at all if they don't learn my native language. Instead of wasting time learning a useless language, it would be beneficial for everyone if they put that energy, time, and effort into something else. I think communicating with foreigners in English is a win-win for both sides since we can practice our English.
HVP2019@reddit
I am confused why does it matter your or mine opinion since neither you or I live in our home country. Immigrant coming to our home countries will not be interacting with you or I.
What matters is opinion of local people who had chosen to stay in our countries of origin.
Toxigen18@reddit
I lived and worked in 6 countries so far and I refused to learn the local language because didn't made sense traveling so much. I learned only my wife language out of respect and to be able to connect with her family.
I speak my mother language, french from school, English learned by myself and Spanish for my wife.
Didn't made any sense for me to learn German, Dutch, polish, Hungarian, Bulgarian
Square_Positive_559@reddit
If you were planning to live in the same country all of your life, would you learn it ?
Toxigen18@reddit
Of course.
If I'll decide to live in a country for life, it will happen after 2-3 years of living there. And of course I'll learn the local language to be able to handle my life better, to have access to better jobs to be able to help my future children at school etc
DutchieinUS@reddit
It’s about respect. If you plan to live in a country, you learn the language, period.
Square_Positive_559@reddit
Lol respect... like if you don t know the language you are insulting the country and you don't deserve to live there... People have other priorities than spending years becoming fully fluent.
Proof_Mycologist_220@reddit (OP)
That idiot probably won't be able to respond to your comment because I blocked him.
Proof_Mycologist_220@reddit (OP)
Yes, so that's why I got a C1 and spent years studying a language I might not even use. Or are you saying C1 isn't enough and I need to pass C2 with top marks?
DutchieinUS@reddit
No, I’m saying you need to be able to speak and understand it to a level that you can manage yourself properly.
Proof_Mycologist_220@reddit (OP)
Well, I've lived in Germany for seven years and I've been thinking hard about whether there was ever a situation where I absolutely had to use German, but I don't think there was.
DutchieinUS@reddit
So you never interacted with a single German person during all that time? That’s very remarkable
Proof_Mycologist_220@reddit (OP)
The atmosphere was like, "Why speak German when you can just use English?" All my other foreign colleagues only spoke English.
DutchieinUS@reddit
So you stayed in your expat bubble, got it.
Proof_Mycologist_220@reddit (OP)
I at least tried to get close to Germans, so I even avoided people from my own country on purpose. But becoming friends with Germans is almost impossible.
Chance-Ask7675@reddit
Couldn't disagree more. I lived in Liechtenstein for a year and I barely made it to A2 German but I felt so ashamed at the beginning not going around not being able to even do a coffee order in German. There is no downside to learning a language, I enjoy it, its good for the brain, I learned quite a lot about German (speaking) cultures in my classes, and even if you communicate poorly you can garner a fair bit of good will from locals. It shows an appreciation for the country you choose to make home and a solidarity with other immigrants who aren't as privileged as to be able to "just get by on English". I have to say, learning a new language is one of the greatest gifts Ive ever given to myself. Truly allows you to experience an entirely new dimension of a culture.
Proof_Mycologist_220@reddit (OP)
Even though I had a C1 certificate in German and have studied every single day for years, people don't show me any goodwill. Instead, they treat me like an annoying Chinese person. And I'm not even Chinese. I always try my best to be polite, so I really don't know what I was doing wrong. Anyway, where I live now, I don't feel like I'm being treated as some annoying Chinese person who needs to get lost.
iplie@reddit
The reason is pretty simple and everyone knows it, it has nothing to do with the language.
iplie@reddit
IMO it makes sense to learn if you're planning to settle down and stay indefinitely, or at least for a long time. In Northern Europe, this is an unspoken requirement for integration (which means: assimilation) even though you can live with English just fine. But it's just one of the barriers and removing it doesn't guarantee anything. They will move on to the next thing to differentiate you and make sure you are excluded. Still, might be helpful to at least worry about one less thing. In other cases, it might not be worth the effort (I know all the "model immigrants" here would disagree), so it's down to everyone's individual goals.
DonnPT@reddit
I'm in Portugal, where the reputation for high degree of English competence may be a little overstated. Friends in Lisbon have taken a pretty casual interest in learning the language, but here, outside of the two largest cities, it's an issue, and reaching B1 is a struggle. I guess that varies - B1 Spanish is probably significantly easier than Portuguese, because it's simply easier to hear what people are saying. No one thinks they're heading for C1, but their B level learning really does count as "spending time on the local language", time and effort.
masegesege_@reddit
It’s always helpful to know the local language. Europe is a bit different because English is so common, but you never know what kind of situation you’re gonna run into where having knowledge of the local language is the difference between saving yourself and being totally screwed.
Proof_Mycologist_220@reddit (OP)
Honestly I did not find German to be very useful when I lived there.
masegesege_@reddit
Then maybe it’s just German that isn’t useful to learn?
Germans, Swedes, Dutch, Danish, and Norwegians happen to be incredibly proficient at English so those languages might not be worth the effort it takes to become conversational.
Impossible-Snow5202@reddit
That's an exaggeration. In many parts of those countries, there are people who don't practice beyond school requirements, and most people are only passably fluent. When you work closely with them, you find out quickly that they are nowhere near native levels of English and they make a lot of mistakes in meaning and usage.
masegesege_@reddit
To me anyone who can carry a conversation is incredibly proficient so maybe we just have different standards, lol.
I spoke English with my dad as a kid and when we moved to the US I thought I’d be fine, but I wasn’t at all. So I always wanna pat anyone on the book can hold a conversation, especially when they just learned through school.
Proof_Mycologist_220@reddit (OP)
The problem is that those Germans think they are good at English. So, when a foreigner keeps trying to speak German, they feel like their English skills are being ignored and they get upset.
Proof_Mycologist_220@reddit (OP)
That's exactly what I'm saying. There are comments on the internet or Facebook saying you should speak German in Germany, but in the real world, the chances of actually running into people like that are practically zero.
masegesege_@reddit
I think it’s generally respectful to learn the local language but I remember hearing of people who had trouble learning German just because no one wanted to bother speaking it when it was much more convenient to just speak English.
Fluid_Emphasis1569@reddit
I’d say everyone under 30 of actual German descent (not an invader) speaks English to a degree.
LibrarianByNight@reddit
I suppose it depends on your country. I'm learning Danish in Denmark, but I almost never get a chance to use it, as everyone switches to English, even if I keep responding in Danish. Danes are notoriously reserved, so the only ones I've met have been through organizations that lean more international and have a default language of English, like the sports team I'm on.
I've been here less than a year, so I'm only just starting my third module of language learning, but it is of course helpful for reading signage, hearing announcements, and daily life tasks, as not everything is translated into English.
Impossible-Snow5202@reddit
What is your future plan?
I think we may be nearing "peak English" as technologies make it possible to live and work in many languages.
I have translation earbuds that let me have conversations with people in any languages while I hear in English. When everyone has them, we will all walk around speaking in and hearing our own languages while having full real-time conversations.
I use Teams for a few meetings with people who speak ESL, and they can use their first languages when they are not confident or want to add detail, and I can read the subtitles.
I will keep learning Spanish so I can use it in an emergency and when I want to be polite, but pretty soon we will not need second languages, even for work.
therealrexmanning@reddit
I guess it depends on the country. In Nothern Europe you'll probably indeed get pretty far without learning the local language.
I have several expats friends who've been living here in the Netherlands for ages and still barely speak Dutch.
On the other hand a good friend of mine moved to the south of Spain last year and over there it definitely is useful to learn Spanish