1 1/2 Years in Brazil…back to United States *REAL TALK* | TheaterFire

1 1/2 Years in Brazil…back to United States REAL TALK

Posted by lledit@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 268 comments

2 years ago my husband and I decided to sell everything and moved to Southern Brazil with our dog and 5 y/o.

We moved to paradise. It was a complete upgrade. We feel happier, more nourished, our day to day flows and feels easy. We are closer to nature. Less consumerism. We feel like we vibe with the local people more than in the US. My husband is originally from South America and speaks Spanish. I learned Portuguese and while I’m still not fluent, I get by just fine. Our kid picked up the language right away and goes to a lovely private school here.

I got pregnant shortly after we moved and had a baby this year. We now can apply for citizenship. Then my dad died. Now we’re going back to the US to take care of his estate and we’re faced with the realities we weren’t willing to fully acknowledge before.

There is no substitute for familiarity, family, and close friends. While I LOVE it here and want to stay in Brazil, we’re now acknowledging that we only have so many years left with the remaining grandparents of our children. We will always feel like outsiders here. I miss what’s familiar. I thought I’d never say it, but I miss the US. It’s also not as easy for us to make money here. Sure, dollars go far but once you stop making them…then the pressure is on. If something happened to my husband I’d be SOL & that scares me and feels irresponsible.

It feels absolutely insane to consider moving back. However, I’m completely changed after this experience. I long to live *simply*. Close to nature. I don’t need a fancy, big house…in fact…I don’t want it.

This was all prompted by me asking my husband one question: “if we were no longer able to fly globally, would you rather be here (Brazil) or the US close to your family”

…and he said, “without a doubt the US close to family”

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Academic-Balance6999@reddit

We moved back to the US after 6 years in Switzerland. We are now about 9 months in. The culture shock is REAL and I still get a flash of dystopian feelings whenever I put gas in my car, but overall we’re thriving— more time with grandparents / cousins, more opportunity for kids (things like robotics and debate clubs), better food.

The one thing you learn abroad is that there is no perfect place.

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Fluffy-Method1010@reddit

Better food in the US🤣

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Academic-Balance6999@reddit

Have you spent any significant time in Switzerland? A culinary paradise it isn’t. I’ve never been to a place where a $40+ plate of food is prepared so indifferently.

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azncommie97@reddit

I've spent the past five years in France and Italy, and still find the restaurant scene where I'm from in Texas to be better. For Asian food alone, even if it's Americanized, there's simply no comparison.

I've also been disappointed on more than a few occasions by Italian restaurants in France lol.

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LeNoirDarling@reddit

You must be from HTX. Best food scene in the US IMO. But not good enough to move back there. I just became a better cook instead.

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azncommie97@reddit

I'm from DFW, and even I'll admit that Houston probably has an edge there. I just haven't been in a very long time. No, the food alone is not enough to get me to move back either at the moment, but speaking as an Asian-American, I will push back when Europeans make blanket statements about how the food in the US is garbage.

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Academic-Balance6999@reddit

You & me both. There’s a lot of propaganda on the internet about European food being superior but I found it just wasn’t true, especially in German-speaking regions.

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dak0taaaa@reddit

The produce in the NL compared to California, where I grew up, was utter garbage. There are some exceptions of course, like Dutch strawberries are great in the summer, but I remember cooking something when I visited home, tasting a carrot, and being shocked it had a strong, actual discernible flavor.

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mellowhype5G@reddit

Same here in mx, don’t get me wrong the Mexican food is obviously best I’ve ever had, but food from any other culture just doesn’t compare to the US…

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Routine_Clock8064@reddit

You're nuts, the restaurants in the Netherlands are very good. While traditional Dutch food may not be very exciting the culinaire level in the Netherlands is very diverse and of good quality.

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Academic-Balance6999@reddit

I definitely ate better in Amsterdam than I did in Switzerland... but I know most people find Dutch restaurants quite bland.

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Appeltaart232@reddit

That’s why we go to restaurants 😂

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samnissen@reddit

You’re so close to realizing what’s great about American food

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Appeltaart232@reddit

My sister lives in California, we pretty much eat exclusively at Mexican places when I visit.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I miss Mexican food SOOOOO much!!!!

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Appeltaart232@reddit

Me too 😃 There are a couple of decent Mexican places in Amsterdam but not exactly the real deal

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lledit@reddit (OP)

The “Mexican” food here is good but it’s not…Mexican. lol. It’s like the shadow of a distant relative…

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Fluffy-Method1010@reddit

We are ranked nearly last in the world based in food, we know that all. But USA is lower then us based on the quality of the food (except BBQ).

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Academic-Balance6999@reddit

I think most of that reputation for poor quality is based on two things: 1) internet propaganda about the sweet subway bread and 2) internet propaganda about the American system of regulating food additives, which is somewhat more lax than the EU system. That said— grocery stores where I live in California have much much better produce and a wider variety of ingredients— dozens of kinds of Asian noodles, multiple varieties of fresh tortillas (no need to buy gross El Paso), cheese from all over the world, etc etc. The perception that we’re all eating McDonald’s and Doritos and sugar-filled bread is nonsense.

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Fluffy-Method1010@reddit

I base my opinion about the facts. Europe food regulations are stricter regarding sugar, additives, and portion sizes, which naturally leads to lower rates of metabolic diseases.

Based on global life expectancy rankings: Switserland: #9 Netherlands #33 USA #62

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ADeeLuis@reddit

That’s true if you eat mostly or large amounts of processed food. I currently live abroad in Mexico but am considering moving back. I love the fresh produce here that is accessible at every almost every plaza because there verduras y frutas everywhere. But, before I left I got produce largely from farmers markets, farm stands when I’d drive out in the more rural areas and organic grocery stores (some more expensive but the independent ones not much more than a typical grocery store). So it depends on what you eat and if you cook (I do).

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Any-Assistance-8103@reddit

Some food additives are banned in eu but not us (the inverse is also true). There aren’t any strict EU regulations on sugar content or portion size in food (cite them if you can find them). You’re just retreating things you heard on the internet. The larger health determinants are more walking/exercising and public healthcare. US has incredible farms and produce but people choose to not move and eat junk - the food supply is just fine, the choices people make are poor

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lledit@reddit (OP)

It’s true but it also largely has to do with where you live in the US. There are plenty of food deserts where people only buy their produce from Walmart. As someone who exclusively buys organic produce and meat; it was very challenging when I’d travel to smaller towns and everywhere in between to find food that I would want to eat.

Where I’m from there was an abundance of farmers markets and very easy to eat organic, fresh, healthy foo. There were plenty of times where I would dread leaving because I knew where I was going didn’t have the same.

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Academic-Balance6999@reddit

I disagree that it’s the food system. There is sugary bread in Europe, there are chips and sodas and candy. There are basically no kinds of junk food in the US that you can’t get in Europe. And about portion sizes… Swiss portion sizes are ENORMOUS. I commonly saw my work colleagues eat breaded and fried pork cutlets served with fries. California portion sizes are honestly much smaller and more likely to include whole grains, a green vegetable etc.

What is different in Europe is universal health care and a somewhat more robust welfare state on average.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I also miss the cheese selection in the US greatly!!!!! I def took it for granted…

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Appeltaart232@reddit

Fruits and veggies in California are really good but I guess not of all US is equal. They’re also a lot less heavily subsidized than meat, so people can’t really afford as much. And if you’re working a lot you have no time to cook, then you go for fast food. I think that’s what the perception is based on, and I think it’s largely correct for a large part of the population.

Why the Swiss tolerate subpar food is beyond me. Maybe it’s a mountain thing lol. In NL supermarket fruit is not always the best, but thank god for Turkish and Asian shops.

For reference my sister lives in California, I’m based in NL, we’re both from Eastern Europe.

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oshunbleu87@reddit

I agree with you. People say Portuguese food is amazing. Other than the bread everything was not to my liking and not as cheap as Americans think.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

The quality of food in Brazil is much better than the US & there is far less processed food. Much easier to eat healthy but I basically make everything from scratch.

However, the recipes at restaurants are lacking in my opinion!! I never thought that I’d miss food in the US but there are sooooo many cuisine options and I actually very much miss the variety.

I’m not saying there isn’t any variety of good places to eat in Brazil. Of course you can find just about anything in bigger cities but otherwise get used to steak, rice, beans, and French fries everywhere you go.

As someone who spends a LOT of time in the kitchen, it’s amazing to cook at home here. But going out to eat has let me down more times than not…

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Academic-Balance6999@reddit

That was my experience in CH as well, except the produce in Switzerland is way worse than the US and it can be hard to source some ingredients that allow you to cook at home (eg the variety of dried Chiles you can find here, or various dried noodle types). So we managed to figure out how to recreate most foods we liked in CH with local ingredients but many Mexican or Asian recipes required an interior substitution.

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WinterTourist@reddit

You have a hard time accepting comments, don't you. Zwitserland is very expensive, you probably paid $40 for a happy meal. I've had some delicious meals there, so it perhaps had more to do with what you ordered, or where you went.

I think it's probably for the best that you moved back, best of luck.

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Academic-Balance6999@reddit

Ok, I’ll ask— what food do you think Switzerland does especially well? Because I found typical Swiss restaurants to be boring meat and potatoes (cordon bleu! Fitnessteller!), and non-Swiss restaurants to be pale imitations of food that is better elsewhere. Sure, I’ve had good fondue and Raclette, but that requires very little in the way of cooking skill.

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RoundAd4247@reddit

So you’re saying yours a family with children, and you cannot cook but eat in restaurants every day?

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lledit@reddit (OP)

lol literally no one said this

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BatPlack@reddit

Haven’t been to Europe but I’m very excited to visit these countries to experience their famously indifferent food lol

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RoundAd4247@reddit

Apparently American expats cannot cook, since they always complain about restaurants in Europe.

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ADeeLuis@reddit

People who mostly cook at home also like to eat out sometimes.

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Academic-Balance6999@reddit

I lived in CH for 6 years with children, you’ll notice I also talk about the selection in grocery stores as well— our closest was a Coop but we also regularly shopped at Migros, Lidl, Aldi, and the local Turkish store. The Turkish store definitely had the best produce! And we only ate out about twice per month because it wasn’t worth it to pay $40/head for bland Thai food, abysmal Mexican food, or pasta that I could make better at home. We eat out about once or twice per week now— usually Friday night takeout plus one lunch out— because it’s worth it to sample the amazing variety, creativity, and freshness of the restaurant food here. Burmese, dim sum, tacos, Vietnamese, Salvadoran, Korean, hot pot… such an abundance.

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hevnztrash@reddit

If you step away from corporate franchises and indulge in the food that other cultures have brought over and mixed in with US culture, there is a lot of great food.

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Hubby233@reddit

Shocked that you think US food is better than Swiss food

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dak0taaaa@reddit

If your values point more toward proximity to family, that's fine. Family is important. You said "There is no substitute for familiarity, family, and close friends." That seems to me you value those things over being in a new country.

You say you are eligible to apply for citizenship, how long would that process take? Could be smart to get that before you move.

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puzzle_process@reddit

I’d rather be somewhere I love over being close to family, which is exactly what we’ve done. We are also located in US.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Honestly after this experience, I feel like I’m happy with so much less. As long as there’s nature, safety and access to good food (local farms) I’m happy . Where we will be in the US has an abundance of all three…

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Accomplished_Pea8022@reddit

Where will you find all this in the US? Honest question because we are considering a move to south America to find exactly what you’ve mentioned, and family keeps us here.

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puzzle_process@reddit

Consider Colorado. Wishing you the best!

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Automatic_Way_126@reddit

I’m in Colorado and I do not advise. Maybe five or 10 years ago but now it’s just trash. I’m sure all my life and I’m trying to move leave the country. This place is expensive Denver versus a complete shit hole now it’s super dry. No snow anymore pretentious or homeless is pretty much is

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puzzle_process@reddit

Colorado is huge. I certainly wouldn’t recommend the capital to OP.

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Automatic_Way_126@reddit

Yeah, it’s either a mountain that you need a lot of money to buy a property or a plane otherwise or you can go hang out with met heads in South Colorado

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puzzle_process@reddit

To each their own.

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ambergresian@reddit

Wherever you wind up, I think this move was worth it for this alone. Keep this close to heart, there are many places you can choose with this in mind, and you'll be fine.

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litebritecarousels@reddit

PNW

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nonula@reddit

30 years ago, sure. Now it’s expensive to live anywhere in the PNW.

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Mysterious-Brain-639@reddit

We just moved back to the mainland from Hawaii. I know it’s technically the us but it’s a completely different culture, especially where we were living in rural Hawaii.

My husband wanted to be closer to his parents near the end of their life (they are 93 and 87). I was kind of meh about being near my family but thought it would be a good experience for my five year old daughter to have a relationship with all four of her grandparents. Sooo we moved back to the east coast after being gone for 30 years.

It was a really rough transition for me personally. But seeing her form those relationships with her grandparents versus the two to three days a year we would see them has been really satisfying. Do I want to be here? No not really. But I did take one for the team for the family as a whole and it’s been having some unexpected benefits. Hoping to return to Hawaii eventually for now we are going to spend summers there

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Mysterious-Brain-639@reddit

And I definitely did and am experiencing culture shock. Good luck with your decision! One step at a time for sure.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I think you can relate that the beaches I will likely find depressing going back. Where I live now there’s 13 beaches within 15 minutes; they all have a different vibe and are equally as beautiful. East coast US beaches feel so meh 😑

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Mysterious-Brain-639@reddit

We moved to the east coast in June. I couldn’t bring myself to go to an east coast beach last year. I was like it will be too depressing. I might go this year…maybe. But yes the beaches and popping down the coast to see a sunset whenever I want. Miss that!

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I relate to this!!! I will definitely be “taking one for the team” in this situation. But I can handle it…

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trashhighway@reddit

With all due respect the US is not a good place to be now. Being close to family/friends is great in an ideal world but this ain’t it.

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kombuchaqueeen@reddit

Did you read the story? Her father died and they want to be close to the remaining grandparents. I totally understand the sentiment. The US blows but family will not be around forever.

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Cwilde7@reddit

This.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Thank you, @kombuchaqueeen 💗

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Due_Lifeguard_495@reddit

This. Stay where you are. Moved back to the us from Europe and regret it every day. Same reason as you but I still only see my family about as often when I did when I was abroad. The us is an absolute du pager fire especially with a foreign spouse. It’s not the same as when you left.

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passaty2k@reddit

I thing this is key!

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estrea36@reddit

I don't disagree, but I know many immigrants who have temporarily moved back to far worse countries to take care of aging relatives.

Yes they could do reunification, but its asking a lot for an elderly person to leave his entire life behind in their home country just to be with the grandkids.

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BookAddict1918@reddit

I had a friend who grew up in several different countries and her parents were from 2 different countries. I asked her which place felt most like home. As she was struggling to answer I said "where would you want to die?" She immediately blurted out the name of a country.

So, I know you have kids. But where would you want to die?

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Oof…wow I’ve never thought of it this way…

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Desperate_Wolf_206@reddit

This is exaclty what was going through my mind when I was considering moving back from Canada to Brazil, where I'm originally from. Ended up moving back after 2 yrs. Distance to family was a big factor. Its was a difficult decision. Took me months and months of thinkering. I thought I would regret a lot, never did. I do miss Canada, hope to visit soon. And we never know what's next in life!

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BreadPractical2165@reddit

Community is almost everything

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petey1958@reddit

Listen to your thoughts & feelings. Go with whatever choice brings you relief. Avoid the decision that fills you with dread. This advice, which comes from Anne Lamont’s “Traveling Mercies: Some Thoughts on Faith,” has served me & my loved ones well. Here is her story. Just after a relationship ended she found out that she was pregnant. She consulted a friend in the clergy. Given the financial precariousness of being a writer, he suggested that terminating her pregnancy might be best. But he told her to “Get quiet for a moment, and then think about having the abortion: if you feel a deep and secret sense of relief, pay attention to that. But if you feel deeply grieved at the thought of it, listen to that.” She canceled her appointment for an abortion, gave birth to a son and raised him.

Thanks for the opportunity to tell my story. But I did not want my replies to be just about me. I wanted to share something that may help your situation.

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Pagalhogaye@reddit

Why would you want to live in a country that isnt your own, away from family?

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Cleaner air, water, food, safer, slower paced, more bang for your buck (assuming you make usd), more beautiful, happier people, simpler life. Of course most all of these are subjective to WHERE in both countries…

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theytookallthecash@reddit

This is quite possibly the worst time ever to move back, especially with young kids. I would suggest waiting at least 6-12 months and then deciding.

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mintjulep_@reddit

It sounds very emotional

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theytookallthecash@reddit

I agree. They also have a new baby. Some people think that you shouldn't make any huge life decisions in the first year of having a kid. Going from 1 to 2 kids is also a HUGE learning curve!

It's tempting to want to run home to family, but that can give you new issues. It does make somethings easier but there are A LOT of other issues. Also, it's been my experience that people over promise and under deliver, especially in white communities.

I think OP should probably hang out in some mom subs with mostly American moms to see what we're up against. Boomer grandparents are not a good reason to move home. If OP's parents are Gen X, they might have a better chance but I wouldn't advise someone move home for Boomer help.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Financials play a BIG part in our decision. We both have lots of work opportunities in the US that simply don’t exist here. We’d rather come back to Brazil in some time where we are better set financially. Making USD is gold compared to making Brazilian Reals!!! People don’t realize this…

Also it’s not just for the “boomer” help; we have a strong friend network that means close friends with kids which is worth its weight in gold

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theytookallthecash@reddit

Yeah until you realize all those friends are burnt out from living under fascism, having no help, rising bills. They'll never call, it's not the same country you left 2 years ago.

I'm a mom of 2 little kids in the US, for reference.

Fact remains, you just had a kid and shouldn't make rash decisions. I stand by my original 6-12 month timeline for making the decision to move back.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I didn’t ask for advice, I was just sharing my experience 🙂 but i do appreciate reading other people’s experiences & thoughts.

We are going back for two months to deal with my dad’s estate and will fully feel out which is the best option. I wish money wasn’t a factor but it is largely driving our consideration of going back. The truth of the matter is that we have a lot more financial opportunity in the US. The goal then would be to get set up better financially and then return to Brazil.

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theytookallthecash@reddit

My bad. Yeah, just don't act rashly. The best advice I got is 2 kids gets easier once the youngest is 6 months. By the time my youngest was 16 months it was MUCH easier.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

It is very true that while I was in the US it just seemed everyone was too busy (us included) to support other friends/friends with kids the way that I wanted to. We were ALL overworked and overtired with nothing left to give. The American hustle is not something I want to embrace again if I can help it

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CommuningwithCoffee@reddit

If you’re close to getting your citizenship, and if there are no obligations to maintain citizenship (ie taxes on worldwide income) then wait to make decision after that. It will give you the opportunity to move back to Brazil quickly and easily should you want to— or need to.

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kitanokikori@reddit

America is the only country that does that :-/

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ADeeLuis@reddit

Well, the U.S. …and Eritrea.

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kitanokikori@reddit

Eritrea's laws are not The Same which is why I didn't include it - theirs are effectively just trying to full-on punish anyone who leaves by threatening family members and using tactics that could basically be described as extortion

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ADeeLuis@reddit

I never stated that the laws are “The Same”. Just that the U.S. and Eritrea are the only ones in the world that tax their citizens’ worldwide income.

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kitanokikori@reddit

ok.

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oshunbleu87@reddit

We just moved back to Colorado after living 6 years in Portugal. This past Christmas Eve I woke to my husband saying “its time to go home” at that moment I was angry and not prepared, but he explained that although Portugal is pretty, and the people are very nice, we will always be outsiders and never be Portuguese. It’s been 6 years since I had seen my grandson and I missed him with all my heart. Family came to visit but all came at different times once. Bureaucracy was exhausting and you’re trapped in an “expat” bubble of other Americans you may or may not have been friends with but are stuck with because it’s easy. It’s great in the beginning when the YouTube videos become a reality until it isn’t and you’re trying to make a doctors appointment over the phone or need a repair or just every day life has you second guessing every word you’re pronouncing. (Yes many speak English, but rather not) Anyways, despite the shit show I haven’t looked back. I’m loving being in my familiar surroundings. It was a fun ride until it wasn’t.

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viraodisco@reddit

Bureaucracy was exhausting and you’re trapped in an “expat” bubble of other Americans you may or may not have been friends with but are stuck with because it’s easy.

It seems that part of your problem was not even trying to integrate in the local community... If you are stuck in that expat bubble you mentioned, then yeah, you'll always feel isolated.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

We exited the expat bubble pretty shortly but becoming pregnant and having a newborn has kept me from integrating the way that I initially planned. I feel like I haven’t even started living the life that I had planned because pregnancy throws such a curveball 😛

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Academic-Balance6999@reddit

There’s a bit of a catch-22 there… it’s hard to integrate if you don’t speak the language well enough, but it’s hard to get fluent at a language unless you’re hanging out with native speakers. Add to that that most places in the world are filled with people who’ve never left their home town and so most locals have had the same friends since kindergarten… it can be very hard to integrate, especially if you don’t have a local spouse.

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viraodisco@reddit

Bureaucracy was exhausting and you’re trapped in an “expat” bubble of other Americans you may or may not have been friends with but are stuck with because it’s easy.

It seems that part of your problem was not even trying to integrate in the local community... If you are stuck in that expat bubble you mentioned, then yeah, you'll always feel isolated.

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Icy_Worldliness8542@reddit

Having a mother that passed, you will never regret being close to family. I had a toddler and was pregnant with my second when she passed. She lived a half an hour away and I took every opportunity to be with her and have my son get to know her, we did sleep overs and camping trips and quality time. Regrets in life are the absolute worst, memories with loved ones and time spent with them is best thing in my opinion. My sister didn’t do the same, she wasn’t as involved or around, and two years later she struggles with guilt and regret.

Yes you can fly, but being close and having visits often is more precious because kids grow, people change, being a part of that change and seeing that often is (in my opinion) what life is all about.

You can take what you’ve learned and not get sucked into the US lifestyle. Take that balance and peace you found in Brazil, and practice it in the US. Like another poster said, it doesn’t need to be permanent and you can change your mind if things don’t go your way. You’ve already done it once, so the fear factor of leaving isn’t as strong. The biggest question you should ask yourself is what would you regret more?

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Strict-Armadillo-199@reddit

This is the only really unselfish, emotionally balanced reply I've read on this thread up to now. I get that things are really frightening and difficult for a lot of Americans right now, but it hurts me (as an American) to see people unable to hear what others are saying or leave any room for different needs and wants - every post about the US is full of these hateful replies that are not actually responding to what OP wrote/asked, but just repeatedly dumping, loudly and vociferously, their own anxiety and black-and-white thinking. I'm trying to hold compassion for people who I guess don't know how to be better/regulate their emotions in a healthy way, because I too suffered like that once. You don't know what you don't know. I know plenty of people in the US, though disgusted and fearful of current events/leadership, still living good lives and offering up positive options for themselves and others. It is possible.

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inciter7@reddit

They're such obviously emotional replies more focused on insisting that their worldview is correct than engaging in a meaningful conversation.

You see this a lot with expats in my experience, its either stockholm syndrome types who constantly have to announce how happy they are to leave behind the provincial plebs of their homeland, or embittered constant complainers.

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Mimopotatoe@reddit

I’ve found expats to be utterly exhausting because of how few I meet that have a balanced worldview. It’s exactly what you said— people desperately trying to prove they are doing the right things in life and people who are miserable. There’s also the insufferable ones who don’t acknowledge how much of a bubble they live in and just basically live like they are on vacation without making local friends or reading local news. I moved back to the U.S. after five years and it finally feels like I’m living a full life here.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I couldn’t agree more.

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Positive_Hall_3207@reddit

Unfortunately this is my experience as well. A fair , balanced worldview is hard to find. The Expat Bubble of Privileges , EBP as I call it drives me crazy . I can’t stay in it.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Agreed!

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I agree about taking what I found in Brazil and implementing it in the US. Two big factors about us going back is having a stronger support system with our new baby & also my husband has a very strong work opportunity. ALSO the grandparents said they’d pay for both of our kid’s schools if we move back (yes I’m aware of the bribery but hey…$$ isn’t coming as easy as it once was for us)

I have close friends in the US that also have children which feels like a huge plus. Where we live in Brazil it seems like everyone has kids and our kiddo’s school has a very welcoming vibe amongst the parents BUT the language barrier keeps me from developing deeper friendships. I can’t wait to connect with my close friends and have our kids play together. I look forward to having conversations where I’m able to speak my mind instead of questioning very word in about to speak while translating in my head. It’s exhausting.

We own a house in Brazil so we have somewhere to come back to. We are keeping our options open for sure.

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very_tiring@reddit

Wife and I both grew up in the US. Years ago we moved to western Europe and loved it. Had a baby and decided to move back to be close to family just before the first was a year old.

We moved back to the same city we both grew up in, where our friends and family were... and it didnt feel the same. We hadn't been gone long, a few years, the place hadn't actually changed much, maybe a bit, but a lot of it was just seeing the way things had always been differently. You go back to the same place, but you're probably not the same, even if it feels almost normal for short visits.

We moved back to Europe this past year. Our parents are also aging, and in decent but not amazing health. My parents (and siblings and their kids) lived pretty close, and saw our kids at least once or twice a month, often more. Partner's family were further away and for other reasons only saw us in person once or twice a year. Honestly it rips my heart out a bit if I really think about the fact that I will probably only see my parents in person a handful of times before they're gone, and my kids won't know them (or my siblings and their cousins) like they would if we lived there. It was a huge trade-off, and one that we honestly are still wrestling with, especially on a holiday like today. How do we put a value on these things? Rate importance 1-10? Where does a strong network of extended family fall? Growing up in a place with strong social safety? Lower crime and generally lower angst socially? A culture less focused on consumerism? No drills where the teachers show you how to hide in case "bad people" get into the school? School systems that arent being dismantled bit by bit?

Life is tradeoffs, always. We decided that seeing family is important... but actual daily life that more closely aligns with our values cant be had in the place our family is, so we moved.

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blackinblighty@reddit

I’ve been going through the same grieving process ever since returning to the UK permanently in 2017. Felt I had to give up on the US once and for all as my kid was anout to start school and I couldn’t face the reality of considering which school playground was more vulnerable to a school shooter, among other messed ip things in the country. I’m visiting the US for the holiday and what I see is an at,osphere of fear and shame here. People are living in their bubbles, driving around in cars past homeless encampments. My family and friends can’t believe I got on an airplane and went anywhere, when there is a war on. They are steeped in a paranoid state whipped up by a 24-hour cable news cycle, and shameful with the sense that the rest of the world looks down on us/hates Americans now.
But I had to face the fact that he would only have a distant, passing relationship with my family, and his ancestors’ (African-American) culture. It pains me that to help family members when they are struggling, but I felt the decline in American and thought it was the right choice for my son’s future. As all the long term expats here will say, I am regularly reminded that no place is perfect, but I do think we made the right decision.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

❤️‍🩹 it’s definitely a trade off!!! And not an equal one at that.

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Angelic_Platypus@reddit

Hey would you be open to talking on a private message with me about your experience moving to western Europe? I'm also American and have been considering moving someplace in Western europe, but not sure where to start exactly.

I sort of attempted to move to Germany several years ago, I got accepted into a Masters program there but it was right when the second wave of Covid hit and it was very difficult to navigate things during that time.

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buttstuffBarbie@reddit

I moved to Netherlands and I’d be happy to talk if you’d like. Feel free to message

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mintjulep_@reddit

I grew up away from family. Honestly I’m happy I grew up in Italy vs Missouri USA, close to family.

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lieutenantbunbun@reddit

How was the language barrier??

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I get by just fine in day to day life. People are very friendly and appreciate that I try to speak the language. However, it’s kept me from developing deeper friendships here. There’s a level of insecurity when I speak that makes me feel a bit awkward that I absolutely do not have while speaking my native tongue.

I’m very happy though to speak another language. It’s been amazing to be fully immersed and I feel empowered to learn more languages. I’m also very happy for my kid who is tri-lingual at 6.

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lieutenantbunbun@reddit

I have deeply considered Brazil after the UK, but it definitely takes earning remotely, something I did for years, but gave up for the last 3.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Absolutely

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Anxious-Diet-4283@reddit

somewhat similar situation.

i am dual spain/usa. i romanticized europe. i love spain. moved there. missed the usa because all my friends are there. the truth is that happiness is where your friends and family are.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

My best friend lives in Europe part time for her work. She’s stayed in all the best cities and she says the same. She said she never realized how “American” she is until she spent so much time there. She has absolutely no interest in living in Europe full time after the experience.

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ADeeLuis@reddit

I’m feeling the same after moving to Mexico almost 3 years ago. I didn’t even see my family that regularly before I left. So, I underestimated how much that and the familiarity of a place I’d lived all my life would hit me. Also trying not to figure out what to do and when. Hope you (and I) figure out the best thing going forward.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

🙏🙏🙏

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South_Conference_768@reddit

Don’t be lured by false nostalgia.

Of course family and friends are important, but within a short time of moving back, the nostalgia will likely wear off and your friends and family will be in their normal routine.

In that moment i think you will look out the window and regret returning.

Don’t exchange what is exciting and sublime for deep rooted comfort that will soon feel hollow.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Thank you. Time will tell and honestly the first time I moved away from home I returned and regretted it the second I did it. Took two years to move back. Much harder these days when it’s abroad and with a whole family!

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Alostcord@reddit

I think you need to do what your heart tells you to do. Maybe, if you’re going back for a short time it will become clearer for you both.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Agreed. One step at a time. I feel like we will experience culture shock going back

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Lox_Bagel@reddit

Regardless of what you decide, it warms my heart knowing that you have been happy in my home country for so many years 💕

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Ecstatic-Eye-5766@reddit

Thats why I’m moving next month back to Brasil 🇧🇷 after 30 yrs in the states USA 😂

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ienvycats@reddit

Could you share more about your routine or where you live (a small city with x inhabitants or rural area is enough) in BR?

That's the exact life I want to have.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

We built a house here in the mountains in a community of other expats. It was a good investment at the time and was kind of our “back up” plan. Then we visited and fell in love and moved shortly after. Our house in the mountains is 45 mins from the town where our daughter’s school is. We decided we wanted to be more integrated in the culture rather than remaining in an expat bubble on a large piece of land. Plus, the drive to school everyday was exhausting. Driving feels

So we ended up renting a house in town. Day to day is taking kid to her school, activities, & going to the several different stores to find all the things we like to have (veggies at one place…wholesale grains/nuts in another…herbs in another…meat at the butcher…cheese at the queijaria 😛). We go to the beach in our free time.

If we didn’t have kids, living on the large piece of land would be amazing. It is in still, in some regards…but the truth is as long as we have our kids in school and activities; that’s what we need to be near. If we plan on staying in Brazil we will sell our house to live closer to town for convenience’s sake

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ienvycats@reddit

I spent some time living in a rural area in France (still about a 10-minute drive from the town where we’d get groceries), and I loved working the land there, taking care of animals. It was a small property, run by an older couple who hosted one or two volunteers at a time, like me.

I’d love to recreate that kind of lifestyle in Brazil, somewhere I could live near a community, grow what I like, and just buy whatever I’m missing. But every time I’ve tried, the heat drives me insane. Working the soil with a cool breeze feels so much better than being under blazing sun.

What you said about that southern mountainous region sounds really appealing. Do you think the climate there would be okay for working the land in a more serious way, not just as a hobby but still something relatively chill? I get that summers will be hotter, but where I live now it’s basically hot for like 10 months straight.

I’m a software engineer, so I can work remotely and not rely entirely on the land, which makes it less physically demanding, I was thinking about a medium-size land.

Also, how did you find this community? Every time I look into one, it ends up being very “gratitude, yoga at sunrise, spiritual energy” type of crowd. Totally fine, just not my vibe. I’m looking for people who like working the land and living in a community, but in a more practical, down-to-earth way, not super focused on spirituality.

If you don't want to answer these questions and focus only on your original post that's perfectly ok too, just let me know.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Brazil is big! The South gets cold!! I came from North Florida so I’m used to heat and humidity. I’d say it still gets hot here but it wasn’t as overwhelmingly humid as when I was in FL. There’s always a breeze where I live.

Houses aren’t insulated and it will be dark, rainy, and cold sometimes for 10 days straight in the winter! I am not a fan. I’ll take Florida winter over Southern Brazil winter anytime. You absolutely need a wood stove here.

If you’re into that, perhaps it would be a good fit for you. It’s definitely a beautiful climate to grow all year round. Most people we know have a garden or at the very least banana trees. The land is lush and provides abundance!

We found the community by chance…friend of a friend of a friend. It was a total leap of faith & I feel we got very lucky. Everyone thought we were insane. Turns out I’m not much a “community” type of gal. For me, the idea is a lot better in theory than in practice. It was a great “landing pad” but everyone there is 60+ and there are no kids. If it were just my husband and I we would 10/10 would love to live there indefinitely

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ienvycats@reddit

Oh, I completely agree, winters in Southern Brazil are a nightmare. I’d probably use that time to travel back to my hometown. But honestly, working under direct sun is also a hot, sweaty nightmare to me.

If you’re comfortable sharing where this community is via DM, I’d really appreciate it. If not, no worries, this has already been super helpful.

I don’t plan on having kids, so a 60+ crowd honestly sounds great lol

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immigrantstoryteller@reddit

Interesting, and all our experiences are unique and deep. Our circumstances, cultures, how we grew up, where we ended up heading to, if we went on our own or as a family...

I have been interviewing immigrants for my youtube channel for a year now, or more, and every one of us is a whole world of situations, challenges and decisions. It is fascinating to witness and add on top of my own (and my family's) experience abroad.

Tough decision, I wish you the best on your return. Boa Sorte!

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Muito obg 🙏🙏

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petey1958@reddit

I lived in Southern Brazil in 1976-1978. I was 19, in love with a Brasileira, my Portuguese improved dramatically, when I was forced to leave the country by the Federal Police over a mistake it made on my visa. Our attempts to reunite, in Brazil or the US, came to naught. I realized she would be happiest close to her huge family. I could not envision how I could build a career in Brazil that would support a family. We both married others & have stayed married; raised good kids; I still think about her (& she me), but out of respect for our mates, we don’t communicate. My wife and I also lived & worked in Germany; then toured Europe in an old van until our money ran out.

I learned that extended dives into other cultures opens & changes you. Returning (in my case to the US) is harder than leaving and entering a new language / culture, which is also disorienting, particularly the first six months. It took me time to gradually integrate the things I learned abroad into my life “at home.” They have had a pro As others have mentioned, I feel I’m less “American” than if I’d never left the US. And, obviously, I knew that I would never feel really Brazilian or German if I had stayed.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Thank you for sharing 🙏wow! What a story. I imagine the heartbreak having to leave against your will was tough to manage at the time.

I do think no matter what in life there will always be things that we look back on that we wonder what would be different had XYZ happened instead

What a journey 🌍

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petey1958@reddit

Yes. For me, no one in my life in the US has any idea of what my Brazilian life was like. For her, one day I was there, we were in love, I had no plans or imminent reasons to leave. Then I was gone.

I broke her heart. I could not read her letters without drinking to allow myself to feel the deep loss. She felt abandoned, as she feared. With time, I started writing letters again. Then she tried coming to the US & I tried to sponsor her. She broke my heart because she chose to stay home & marry the friend who helped her sort her feelings & options.

I once had concrete plans to return to Southern Brazil during a business trip to Argentina. But we were both married, had children, I realized how dangerous that could be — ruining our loved one’s lives.

I have grandchildren now and have a good life; my life choices were profoundly affected by my experience living in Brazil. I would love to go back before I die, but I might not.

Every once in a while, I’m filled with saudades. There is a part of me that will always feel brasileiro. And that’s enough.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹 wow, thank you for sharing 💗 so heartbreakingly beautiful

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iliAcademy@reddit

I got back to the US this week after a little over 7.5 years in Brasil. I can't say I don't feel a little alienated here. I see and hear things I haven't heard in a long tine. Just being able to understand all of the conversations around me is weird. I am used to being a bit in my own world and not having to kind of analyze the conversations..I spoke conversational Português so I do understand quite a bit but I could always tune out because generally they weren't talking to me and there was a small chance I would be talked to. Now I have to be alert that someone may truly just speak to me out of the blue. For example I was in a convenience store a couple days ago and as I was leaving the clerk shouted Have a nice day, and I realized oh, she's talking to me.🤣 I used the touchless machine to pay so I didn't interact with her at all. I can still just be tuned out and going about my day.

It's amazing what your mind forgets. Products that are readily available in myriad variety. The choices are a bit overwhelming as there's so many new things like deoderant and skin care options. Even food options. I got used to having far fewer options and knowing exactly which ones were quality. Now quality is not really the concern so much as what just fits my needs. In Brasil it was always a battle not knowing if the product I bought last week will even be available this week. Then just trying different ones to find one that actually works for me and has a decent level of quality. I loved Brasil but being back is something I am appreciating also. Once I get over spitting out Português responses to people I will be fine. 🤣

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I’ve actually largely enjoyed being able to “zone out” and not having the impulse to engage at every interaction; simply because I probably miss a lot of cues to engage! It’s strangely freeing…

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iliAcademy@reddit

Yes it is! 🤣 I am introverted already so it was nice to be in my own world. And for most of the years, I was able to get away from being constantly bombarded with negative news. I knew things happened around Brasil but I didn't really have to internalize and digest it. It eas good detoxing from negativity.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I have a friend here who is from São Paulo but lived many years in AUS & the US. The first month thatI lived here She said to me, “you’re lucky you don’t speak the language because politics are just as bad here”

It always stuck. Now, I get her point. Same shit, different place.

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iliAcademy@reddit

I concur with that. Brazilian politics are incendiary. We would have rallies in Copacabana in Rio and thousands of people would come out. Even in the comments on social media they're always blaming the other parties. It's all the same. 💯

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lledit@reddit (OP)

😄😄 I could have written this…

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NotASpyJustExpat@reddit

Sorry to hear about your dad..

Maybe its too soon for me to say but i actually dont miss anything about living in the US at all OTHER THAN family and old friends.. I do try and go home for holiday's and also try and get my parents to fly out but travelling is for sure getting harder for them as they get older

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Thank you 🙏 dude, I get it…I really do…

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bigleaffanswife@reddit

I think this is more than just missing family.. it’s about a financial safety net if something were to happen to your partner. We owned a home in Costa Rica that we used for vacations with plans on moving there once we were retired and sold during Covid because I felt that if something were to happen to my husband I would no longer feel safe living there on my own.

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d_d42@reddit

Our family is on our 3rd expat assignment. Have the same feelings as you. It’s tough and painful at times, but… Have to do what’s best for your immediate family.

We choose to continue as we are and see each side of our extended family twice a year. We miss them when we’re back…At the same time, feels good when get back “home” and it is just us.

Being around family has pros and cons.

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No_Vegetable7280@reddit

Consider the kids tho. They will be multilingual which is a huge step up in life. They will learn joy in life instead of grinding their lives away just to get by while other get rich off their labor. They will have better healthcare in Brazil and won’t have to worry about dying in poverty if diagnosed with a serious illness. You will make community in Brazil, easier than in the US.

They may miss out on being more involved with some family, but their overall well being and quality of life and life experience will be much much better in Brazil.

Go back to grieve your dad, estate and all of that. Don’t make any decisions for at least 6 months. Then reassess when things feel more stable.

Good luck my friend

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oreo-cat-@reddit

I will say that you might give it a bit of time to process your dad's death before making a decision.

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h_tothe_izzle@reddit

Just commenting to offer support and say that your feelings are valid and most people will never understand your perspective . We also live in paradise and are thinking of relocating back after 4 years and having our second baby here. It was also loss that rocked my world and not being able to travel home in time to say goodbye.

I can’t talk to anyone about it because we live next to the beach in the Caribbean and it’s paradise. But sometimes it isn’t and the shine definitely wears off. Our life here feels far from simple, and I actually feel more disconnected from nature because it is not the mountains and woods that I’m used to and i can’t seem to get acclimated to the extreme heat.

I hope you find peace and I’m sorry for your loss.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Thank you, I’m sorry for your loss as well ❤️‍🩹🙏💗

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hoaryvervain@reddit

Well, you have your answer then. You and your husband both feel the pull of family. Some of us might not make the same choice but I really don’t know what you are hoping for in the way of advice.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Ah…I’m not sure where you got I was seeking advice. Merely just sharing my experience ;-)

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hoaryvervain@reddit

Oh, it seems like everyone misread your post then. Glad you have it all sorted out!

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Mackan36@reddit

OP knows it all. She's the imported oracle of southern Brazil.

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BlueberryNew2022@reddit

I'm in Canada, which is akin to utopia to most Americans who have never lived here. I want to go back constantly. There is really no place like home

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therapyinenglish@reddit

I'm sure you love all the things you said love about the Brazil, but the fact you say it's insane to move back (in spite of all of the sane reasons you gave for doing it), says to me you are trying to talk yourself out of moving back to the U.S. when it's what you actually want to do. And the fact that your husband's saying that he wants to go back to the U.S. was all it took to pretty much throw you into crisis says to me that your overall love of Brazil does not match what you lost in the U.S.

Just because you can come up with a million reasons to stay in Brazil and only a few to go back to the U.S. doesn't mean that those few in the U.S. - family, familiarity, finances - don't outweigh a litany of reasons to stay in Brazil.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Very true!

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Nautilus_The_Third@reddit

Oh no, the horror! THE TRAGEDY!

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TheDarkGoblin39@reddit

You can always move home for the next decade or two while your kids are young and your parents are alive and save up to buy a property in Brazil. Spend summers there and then eventually retire.

That's my dream, my wife being from Brazil but also realizing that living in the US provides more economic upside and proximity to family.

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SpicelessKimChi@reddit

Living abroad is not for everybody but you did it successfully for years and you now have a child who speaks Portuguese. So consider it a success and move forward the way you best see fit.

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kitsunekratom@reddit

You were there for a year and a half. After a while, it will flip and then the U.S. will truly feel like the foreign shit hole it actually is. At least, that was my case.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

What country did you relocate to?

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Helpful-Staff9562@reddit

Yes but places do exist and you can fly when you want so why not be where you love and fly to visit family for a while? I don't get why you'd be in a place you don't like when it's so easy to cross countries and continents nowadays

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I’m skeptical it will be as easy to fly to the US in the upcoming months/years

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Hubby233@reddit

Fly without the kids. Visit your family solo outside of the school holidays, when is easier and cheaper to travel anyway. The kids have built their own lives in Brazil, by the sound of it. You're the one who has ties to the US still. That way you get the best of both worlds. Also: in which of the two countries do you think your kids will have the best future? The best prospects of happiness, health and income? Surely that should also be a factor in any decision

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Serious_Escape_5438@reddit

Sure, a five year old can stay home alone.

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Hubby233@reddit

There's a father in the mix as well, sigh... We're not living in the 50's anymore

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Serious_Escape_5438@reddit

The father also has family he wants to see. In fact OP says his family is their main motivation for returning.

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Hubby233@reddit

What's the point of asking strangers for alternative options to flat out relocate to the USA, when a decent suggestion is shot down by the mummy mafia instantly? It's a valid option, used by many expats, to sometimes fly home solo to weekend suicidal time with mum/dad/aunty's. As a family trip is expensive and not always feasible. Just one option, in case she prefers to stay in Brazil. If it could all be solved by throwing a lot of cash at frequent family sized trips to the USA, she wouldn't be posting here.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I didn’t ask questions or requests for advice. I was merely just sharing my experience, hence why I accused you of not reading very well (I stand by that) 🙂

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Mackan36@reddit

Then why post? This is a public forum.

You share you receive. You don't want that? Don't post.

And.....maybe it would have been a whole lot easier if you'll thought about this before immigrating.

Oeps now it did myself I said something you're not 🚫 open to. Because all you want is praise.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Reddit be Reddit-ing 😝

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Hubby233@reddit

You are the rude one here lol. What a mess

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lledit@reddit (OP)

😅

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Mackan36@reddit

Wow the arrogance is a real thing with you. I'm sure the Brazilians would love to see you go. Just don't come to Europe. We don't like those nasty ass arrogant Yanks.

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Hubby233@reddit

Yeh sure, that's why you're in a Reddit sub. To talk and be agreed with. There's nothing wrong with my reading skills, I just don't think you're particularly nice on here. But enjoy your relocation to the USA and the wonderful restaurants there.

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Serious_Escape_5438@reddit

But that's not what they want to do. OP didn't ask whether to stay or not.

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Hubby233@reddit

Quote: It feels absolutely insane to consider moving back.

Pro's and con's of Brazil and US are mentioned. What's so crazy about suggesting she may have the best of both worlds by staying put and visiting family at home more in a financially doable manner? You people make Reddit such a toxic place lol. Crayyyyzy

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Helpful-Staff9562@reddit

Like there aren't options in this world to take care of kids come on 🤣

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Serious_Escape_5438@reddit

In a country where you don't even have friends and don't speak the language? Maybe you'd leave a small child with a stranger, I wouldn't. Pretty sure the grandparents want to see the kid anyway, I know my parents would be devastated if I visited without my daughter.

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Positive-Kiwi7353@reddit

The five year old has built his own im Brazil.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Leave my baby and 6 year old behind???? lol, never. Also my 6 y/o misses the US a lot including her grandparents and friends (but def misses arcades, movie theaters, etc as well…things that I absolutely don’t care about but are prevalent in the US)

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Hubby233@reddit

Your partner can look after the kids. We're talking about the occasional short trip home. Nothing wrong with doing some things on your own now and then when it comes to your family at home. Not ideal, but a good alternative. "Leaving behind" sounds so dramatic though. Clear now that you're not really open to suggestions here after all. So dismiss advice all you want and pack up and return to the USA then. And start missing Brazil once you've landed. Cheers!

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lledit@reddit (OP)

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 clearly you didn’t read very well my friend

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Hubby233@reddit

Oh I did. But I didn't like your attitude in your reply. As if I'm suggesting you should move continent and abandon your kids. Crazy mum vibes there. But whatever, lady. Do what makes you feel good.

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Helpful-Staff9562@reddit

But eith this mindset you'll never do anytbing in life. Anyways one has to be happy so whatever works for you do that just dont have regrets

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yoursmartfriend@reddit

Anybody who lived abroad during covid times knows it's not this easy. We thought we'd just fly home once or twice a year and two years in we were viewing a Facebook streamed funeral of one of our parents. You have to accept that personal and world events will be out of your control and that you may have to compromise how often you expect to return.

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Helpful-Staff9562@reddit

Yes but this way you'll never lived the life you want if you keep thibking of worst case scenarios...

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Serious_Escape_5438@reddit

It's not that easy to just travel, especially with children who have school and routines.

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Hubby233@reddit

Fly without the kids. Visit your family solo outside of the school holidays, when is easier and cheaper to travel anyway. The kids have built their own lives in Brazil, by the sound of it. You're the one who has ties to the US still. That way you get the best of both worlds. Also: in which of the two countries do you think your kids will have the best future? The best prospects of happiness, health and income? Surely that should also be a factor in any decision

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de_matkalainen@reddit

I only live 2 hours from my family (in a different country) and it's tough at times. Can't imagine having to fly. We'd miss all the small events.

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Helpful-Staff9562@reddit

I live 18 years away from my family and it takes me 1.5 hours door to door and crossing countries (i live in europe). It would take me much longer if I had stayed in my home country try but moved to a bigger city in it where there were jobs (between 4 and 8 hours away). Guess its all relative to where one lives and if you have an airport closeby.

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LonelyMark2116@reddit

Sorry but why dont you move your grandparents as well? You can always rent out the house or just sell it.. right now the US is so much worse than it was even 5 years ago

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I would love to but they have no interest in leaving the US; even with all its issues.

The dad is Cuban. He left Cuba during the revolution and lived in Spain then Boston then Venezuela during its golden years.

The mom is half Danish half Venezuelan. She moved to the US 18 years ago.

Both have traveled the world extensively and love living in the US.

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YYC-RJ@reddit

Brazil more than any place I've ever lived has a very very strong honeymoon effect. It's pros are so obvious and in your face. And they affect you on this deep emotional level very quickly.

But..like dating someone out of your league, or an expensive new car, or anything else that has that intense feeling, it can wear off.

2 years is still in the honeymoon zone. And the tough things, 10 hour flights to anywhere, being on red alert at night, the intense traffic, intense heat, difficulty doing simple things, etc wear on you slowly.

That is why most foreigners and Brazilians seem to be talking about different countries. The longer you stay, the more they align.

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nonula@reddit

Curious why you’d have to be on red alert at night?

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I actually feel safer where I am in Brazil compared to the US. It’s a BIG country; not everywhere is like São Paulo or Rio

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YYC-RJ@reddit

It is a big country. I saw most of it over a decade or so there.

The smaller, calmer places just have different issues that will affect you differently depending on your phase of life. For better or worse, services like schools and hospitals are generally basic outside the big cities.

There is no perfect place. I just found that some places don't hook you right away and kind of have to grow on you. Brazil is the opposite. It wows you right away but then the shine comes off a bit.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Agreed 👍

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I can definitely see that! The bureaucracy here is bonkers and I feel like I can go anywhere after all we had to do to be here and live here. It’s given us superpowers 🦸‍♀️😄

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rarsamx@reddit

I think you are, understandably, in mourning mode.

Don't make a decision when you are so emotional. Let it sit for a while.

However. An expat is someone who decides where to live for whatever reason we have. So, once with a sober mind, take stock of your life and plans and see where your life will be better.

Funny thing. I've been an expat in Canada for 28 years but just built a beach house in Mexico. When I come to mexico I live more like an expat in Mexico. It's a weird feeling. I feel I have roots in both countries.

Maybe the same will happen for you with the US and Brazil.

One thought, though. Making decisions based on unrealistic "what if" scenarios seems misleading. There is no "what if we can't fly internationally" because you can.

Put it like that there can be any number of what ifs to justify whatever answer you want.

"What if a pack of wild radioactive wolfs follow you wherever you go in the US, would you rather be there or in Brazil?".

So, wait for a sober mind and base your decision on real scenarios: what if I loose my job in Brazil, what if I get sick in the US and my insurance lapses.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

🙏🙏

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vajayjayjay@reddit

I was a Canadian who lived in Sweden, had kids and then (largely from guilt) decided to move back to Canada to be near family. Yes, my kids are growing up near family, see grandparents and cousins. But we work significantly more, have a crippling mortgage, deal with more political BS and my quality of life has diminished significantly. We’ve made the best out of everything, so I’m not going to say my life is terrible, but it’s not better. My kids are too integrated to consider moving back, so now I plan for when my kids are off to university to get out of dodge

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Maru3792648@reddit

I'm in Brazil right now and the aesthetic farm to table life you describe is not the life for almost anyone in Brazil.

This means that if you found something unusual that arapta to your lifestyle in Brazil you could also find that in the USA.

I'm also surprised you found this instagram enclave Brazil but made no friends? If anything Brazil is the opposite: it won't be that ideal... But you'll make friends and new family quick.

Anyhow. Just invest in finding the same lifestyle in the USA.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

We have lots of friends here but it doesn’t have the same level of comfort/closeness that comes with both parties speaking the same language fluently. While I can communicate just fine in Portuguese, it’s frustrating to me to not be able to fully express myself and develop closer friendships. I WILL get there someday; I just don’t think right now is the time.

Having a baby is already a bit isolating. Add on the language barrier. Add on I don’t have close friends near by that I feel comfortable enough to call over to hang out with me and shoot the shit while i have my tits out feeding my baby 80% of the day. Add on I’m grieving my dad. Add on that our financial situation isn’t what we expected it to be. Add on in the US; we have plenty of family and friends who are not just available but happy to take our kids for a couple of hours.

It’s a cost/weigh analysis of the current times…

Who knows? Maybe we will get back and be like F* this place and run back to Brazil immediately

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Maru3792648@reddit

My biggest point was that you found in Brazil something that is not the experience of most Brazilians. I live in the USA and have far more contact with nature than my inlaws family in Brazil.

I think you are idealizing Brazil, and except for the people (who are indeed unique and amazing in Brazil) you would be able to replicate everything else somewhere in the usa

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JennaTheBenna@reddit

I miss being close to my family. However, I won't give up the healthcare for anything. One major accident or illness in the US and I'd be financially ruined. No thanks. I'd feel even more anxious about living in the states if I had children.

Good luck!

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lledit@reddit (OP)

That’s a big one that I wish wasn’t a factor! I found the healthcare MUCH better in Brazil and of course much more affordable if not free

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TheDehzao@reddit

Sou brasileiro. Em qual cidade vocês moravam?

You have to consider that when you arrive into a new country, things always seems so much better. But as a brazilian I know by heart the problems we have here and it's no paradise either, with given time you guys would have perceived it too.

U.S seems like the safe choice, no doubt.

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snow_boarder@reddit

My Brazilian wife and I did the same thing with our two cats and went to São Paulo. After 2 years we still loved Brazil but we moved back. Our priorities are different now that we’re back than they were before we moved and we are enjoying a slower paced life back in the US. We moved back 2 years ago.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Can I ask why you moved back?

We are living in a much slower coastal town; I can’t imagine living in São Paulo. For us, moving to Brazil meant moving to live a slower paced life.

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inciter7@reddit

Just curious could you give an idea of the level of violent crime? Brazil has always sounded great but everyone always tells me how they got mugged. Not sure what a slower coastal town would be like

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I feel safer here than I ever did in the US

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Striking_Simple_7237@reddit

I also loved to southern Brazil three years ago. Me and my husband and two kids moved to Santa Catarina. My husband is originally from Brazil, but he’s from Minas Gerais. A much different culture, state compared to Santa. Catarina. We thought we were moving to paradise.

We had a much different experience than yours. I won’t get into it. That’s another a whole other post. Yes, southern Brazil is absolutely beautiful! However, having children and having absolutely NO support was definitely a wake up call. I never knew how much i depended on my family back home when it came to the kids.

Me and my husband had no dates nights, time alone. Not to mention I hate the school schedule in Brazil. Kids were with us 24/7. We had no mental breaks. Don’t get me wrong, I love my kids, but back home I had so much help and support. Once that was gone, I realized how much I took my family for granted. My oldest also had a horrible time being away from my mom, and my grandmother. They helped raised her.

With all that said, we only lasted a year. Yes, I would have loved to stay but a lot of people don’t take into consideration being away from family and friends. I never made a true friendship in Brazil, I was and will always be “ a gringa”. The cultural difference in general was huge and sometimes a buzz kill in my vibe when you’re trying to make connections and things just aren’t connecting.

This is just my personal experience. I know not everybody’s is the same. I would have loved to stayed but mentally I missed my family, friends, and just having genuine conversations with someone in my native language. Even just laughing at jokes with someone. Brazil vs American sense of humor is very different…

I love Brazil, but raising kids with no “tribe”, family support is really f- hard!

So, do what you feel is right. We only have one family. Maybe when you’re older you can always go back, maybe retire there?

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Thanks for sharing your experience! I love love love the school schedule and we feel closer as a family because of more time together but you’re TOTALLY right!!! We haven’t had a date night since we moved lol. Forget it!!

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Eagleburgerite@reddit

Santa Catarina?

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Sim

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sassifrass42@reddit

We’ve been living in Australia for 8 months and we’re ready to move back. Your post was reassuring because the current political situation makes me want to stay far away but the pull of our large and supportive family is outweighing all the current negatives.

I felt like we should give it a couple of years but when you know you know right? Our kids miss their cousins, my husband miss our people, and even though Australia is a beautiful and amazing country - I don’t think it will ever feel like home. As my 6-year old says “when can we go back to our REAL home.” That kind of solidified it for me.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

It takes so much time to build a trustworthy, close knit network. Yes it can be done, but it’s exhausting. Add on kids and it feels much harder…

Nothing compares to friends I’ve had for 20+ years that I can laugh with, trust, drive to their house in midst of a world collapse so we can brainstorm what to do next. To have a network of people where if I don’t know someone personally to get a job done, I know someone that knows someone…

Don’t get me wrong, we’ve done a GREAT job connecting with people here and feel supported to an extent. But it doesn’t compare to more long friendships and family…

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nonula@reddit

Transitioning to a new home can be tough for kids, even if the language is the same — heck, even if it’s just a different state in the US. Six-eight months is around the time homesickness sets in for adults, so take that into account. But also, know that if you decide to go back now, you can always try it again at another stage in life. Maybe even a different destination.

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Own-Story8907@reddit

You know, I’ve always imagined moving to the Middle East or Spain but deep down, my heart is where I’m at. My parents aren’t getting younger, and I’d like to see all my family members grow up.

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Evelynntierney86@reddit

I'm sorry for your loss. Family is so important, would it be possible for the family to stay with you in Brazil for a longer period?

The US is crumbling life here is quite hard these days and expected to get harder

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Thank you! I WISH they’d move to Brazil. They would visit us more but they have other grandkids on opposite coasts in the US so it’s challenging for them to visit all of us. They’re also pushing their upper 70s and mid 80s. Not sure how much travel they have left in them…

It’s true. That’s why we moved to Brazil in the first place…

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Appeltaart232@reddit

If you move back now, would you be “resetting” your path to permanent residence/ citizenship in Brazil? Would your kids feel comfortable with adopting to another environment, friends, school, etc? I guess if they’re young enough they’ll be ok, but just something to consider.

I am in a good position because we’re a 3 hour flight away from our country of origin but we’ve been living in NL for more than a decade now and our kid feels more Dutch than she does Bulgarian. And we’re very privileged to be able to work remotely for extended periods of time so we spend summer vacations with grandparents (most vacations).

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lledit@reddit (OP)

We still plan on coming back to Brazil and doing whatever we have to do to continue the process with our citizenship; as we feel it’s important to have options.

The US isn’t a permanent decision. Ultimately, it depends on our financial situation. If we start making passive income the way that we envision, then we would much rather stay in Brazil. We own a house in Brazil.

Even though things cost less in Brazil (assuming you have USD to spend), we are good at making money in the US. YES the US is getting very expensive but we have our basic needs met over there due to our family…

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Kindly-Necessary-596@reddit

This is the curse of being an expat, your heart can be in two different places. IMO

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soupandstewnazi@reddit

I'd say do what you heart says. But if possible I'd secure your citizenship in Brazil before moving, if possible. Immigration laws change all the time and so do laws around citizenship and residency.

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Evelynntierney86@reddit

Perhaps convince the whole family to go in on a commune in Brazil

I would hate to see you get trapped here especially with young kids

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Captlard@reddit

Life is phases and a journey. Enjoy the next phase.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

É verdade !!

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Far_Anything_7458@reddit

Makes sense, especially if you have kids. What you said about always feeling like the outsider echos with me. I have lived in 3 countries outside the US (one as a child, two as an adult) and you never feel like you fit in 100%

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Motor-Category5066@reddit

Brazilians are the most ignorant, culturally impoverished people I have ever met. Their obsession with meat and barbecue as if their cuisine is the greatest in the world is nauseating.

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carribeiro@reddit

I'm Brazilian, and that's something I always thought for my own life. I just can't live very far from family. I moved to a relatively distant city inside Brazil after marrying and after a few years we had three family members (including my mother in law) moving to the same city where we were living 😄

But hear me: I think that you're not going to be completely satisfied either after moving back. As you said, you changed. Living back in the US may not feel completely "normal" anymore. It's a bit of a curse in a way: the curse of knowing better, of opening your mind to new ways of living, to other cultures. You'll not fit there anymore as you did before.

That doesn't mean you won't be happy. It just mean that this weird sense of displacement may stay with you over your life. And that's ok. Maybe you'll live more of a nomad life, until you find a place where you can have a bit of everything you now want.

Wish the best for you!

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Southern_Eagle_9325@reddit

Come back and experience the hate, grifting and corruption generated by the current administration and I'm sure you will want to go back to Brazil. Remember, 'You can never go home again".

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Pale-Candidate8860@reddit

You’re right, Brazil has none of that.

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Green-sun1313@reddit

Isso

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Thanks for the laugh 😆

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Green-sun1313@reddit

One option is to stay in the US and find others who are comfortable without consumerism. Frankly, that’s what I miss about Latin America as well, but I also like being near my family.

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oshunbleu87@reddit

Another positive imo. Many don’t realize you have to pay taxes in the country you are living and your US taxes (unless you give up your citizenship which would be stupid) and the euro is worth less than the dollar and that is a big deal. If you’re retired don’t expect to get the same amount of benefits after conversion

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nonula@reddit

If you’re living in a country that has a tax treaty with the US, you have to file your taxes in both countries, but usually (not always) you won’t owe anything to the US. If you’re earning in Euros, the foreign earned income exception applies to your earnings below around $130,000 per year. Giving up your US citizenship is not necessary and can be costly (the fee was just reduced, but you have pay any taxes owed, etc).

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Brahma_4_Karma@reddit

Southern Brazil works quite well if you are white. A bit different experience for folks with other skin tone

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Parasomniaaa@reddit

As someone who moved to Spain and is now dealing with the mortality of family i would say wait. That pull is so heavy when things are. Give yourself a few months to make sure it's not emotion pulling you back.

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gowithflow192@reddit

Go back. Those unquantifiable things outweighs the checklist items. It will be better for your kids too. Give them a strong base. America is so vast, it has whatever climate you want.

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cmanster@reddit

You can find places in the USA that are close to nature. Just don’t move to a big city or the suburbs.

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basicalme@reddit

I live in a suburb and I’m extremely close to nature 🤷🏻‍♀️

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cmanster@reddit

There are suburbs like that, I live in one. But, based on the vibes I was getting from OPs comment, I don’t think OP is looking for the suburbs close to nature. More lost in the woods of farmland vibes.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Totally 💯

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yellowfourteen@reddit

I'm really sorry for your loss, losing a parent is really hard. Just remember, there is a reason they say not to make large life altering decisions for a year after a significant loss or when dealing with grief (if it can be avoided)

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basicalme@reddit

If anyone wants to read a blog about simple living I highly recommend Living Stingy. I discovered it way back in 2009 when I was a newly single parent and it changed my life. I recommend going way back and reading forward. It’s just written by a very nice retired attorney that lives practically and has great advice. Nothing for sale, no weird gimmicks or cult lifestyle advice stuff. Just practical advice.

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Anonymous_Autumn_@reddit

Honestly after losing my last grandparent, my parents’ mortality weighs heavy on my heart. I myself am planning to repatriate soon simply to be able to spend more time with my aging parents. I think it is important that your kids do form bonds and memories with their family members. This is a deeply personal choice and that’s just my take on it.

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Technical-Bug-4969@reddit

I'm glad you are sharing this... My husband and I decided to stay close to family and take care of our parents and honestly it's been so rewarding. We decided that later on we will live where we want to live and are financially free. That order just made more sense to me and now reading this post validated it for me

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Yes we have the same conversation!! If we were financially free and money wasn’t in the question, we’d be much more likely to stay in Brazil. Just this trip alone we will be spending $5KUSD on plane tickets and I imagine prices will go up….

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kimbphysio@reddit

This is important context…. I live 10000km from my family, moved alone 6 years ago fo a job opportunity. I’m in a more developed country but the increase in stability in my career and in the social services offered has made a huge difference to my life. That said, my parents are in their 70s and I have a grandmother who is over 100! I go back every year to visit (sometimes twice), and in 15 hours I can get back with relative ease. And my family have all visited me here… the holidays we have had since I moved have been such high quality, memory making experiences that I believe we actually have better relationships now than before I left. But it’s very different if the cost to visit is so high!

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RadioKGC@reddit

Hey, you tried it! Better than wondering. I believe we're here to learn. You learned. And children change everything. You need to be responsible now. Good for you. And parents get older (how does that happen)? And grandparents are important.

Lovely memories and no regrets. Good for you. Hopefully your son keeps his Portuguese!! :-)

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anzelle11@reddit

It sounds like you are doing a good job weighing the options. Something I didn’t take into account when moving home was how much more expensive life would be. We live “closer” to family, but not in the same town because we can’t afford it there. And we have to work so much just to survive that we see our relatives infrequently. Hopefully nor your case, but something to consider.

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Zezespeakz_@reddit

I’m just really sorry for your loss and wish you the best in your move ❤️‍🩹

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Thank you 🙏

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Turbulent-Age-2468@reddit

I lost 2 grandparents and moved home. Lost my mom. Moved back abroad a few years later because America was too stressful after living simply for a while. And now I have no reason to go back.

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ChessIsAwesome@reddit

Interesting. Many people move around and stay in deferent places for a few years end move again. The thing is people always make this big be all and end all move saying this is it, but it should be this is it for now. Who knows what will happen. You can totally love simply in the US too. So many communities here living the simple life. If you like the weather try South Carolina, Florida even. Texas maybe. Even Mexico.

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Shoddy_Explanation65@reddit

South Carolina is a hell of a recommendation for a woman of childbearing age

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I love all of those places!

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gawty@reddit

I wanna add my 2 cents here. I did the opposite, I’m brazilian and lived 3 years in the US. I moved back a year ago, and one of the biggest reasons was to get closer to family and it was the right decision.

I feel like you’re never wrong moving closer to family, and it was the right choice for me, I hope it’s the right choice for you.

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No_Transition_8293@reddit

My son and his wife live in Germany and they are dual citizens. They have great jobs, great healthcare, and live in a lovely city. I keep hoping they will stay.

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shambleswan@reddit

Thank you. This was nice to read

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lledit@reddit (OP)

Agreed!

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Pale-Candidate8860@reddit

You make what decision works best for you. Maybe stay in the US for a couple weeks to a month and then decide if you really want to move back or not.

America can change a decade’s worth in a single year versus other countries. I felt that after being in Canada. Canada isn’t crazy different by any means, but it is much slower paced versus the US.

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lledit@reddit (OP)

We will be in the US for 6 weeks to 2 months so we will definitely get a full feeling of where we would rather be! I’m looking forward to zoning out driving (that would be a death hazard here) and actual sidewalks I can walk my baby on with the stroller😄

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IAmRules@reddit

Go home and spend time with family. You can always come back. Life is never a prison

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lledit@reddit (OP)

I like your profile name and that you wrote this :)

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_Shmall_@reddit

What about your husband’s family?

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lledit@reddit (OP)

It’s my husbands family we’d primarily be moving back for

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HVP2019@reddit

Importance of parents, grandparents, my siblings was something I was well aware when I just started considering immigration. I was planning to leave permanently so it meant that they were going to grow old without me by my side.

I made peace with that and moved. I have been living abroad for over two decades, so gradually I’ve lost grandparents, my father, some childhood friends. There will be more deaths in the future because no one is getting younger.

I knew this is how it will be. If being apart from my parents/sibling was something that would ruin my life then I would stay home.

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shitpresidente@reddit

If you have family and friends that you care deeply for and love and especially a growing family, then that’s where I would choose home to be.

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Tanuji@reddit

Don’t really have advice for you, because we are struggling with it as well on our side. We live in a comfortable place as working people but 10+ hours by plane from any of our family members.

On our side we were both raised near grand parents, in very safe and family oriented settings. Now with our baby there, and 3 family members dying in the past year alone, we feel the guilt of not being able to provide the same to our kid while also worrying if one of us passes. So despite our own personal comfort we do consider uprooting us to be closer.

Especially now with the political climate there is, it feels like a good long term prospect…

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Fonduextreme@reddit

The US is huge. Where in the US is family ?

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NearlyDicklessNick@reddit

Fuck da grandparents bruh