Is Cyprus culturally more Balkan or is it more Levantine / West Asian?
Posted by Substratas@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 328 comments
Posted by Substratas@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 328 comments
Worst5plays@reddit
its literally all combined
K-din0@reddit
Cyprus is Greece. 🇬🇷
thanasis87kav@reddit
Mediterranean duh
Where_is_justice9@reddit
That means so many different things. Spain, Libya, Croatia, and Israel are all Mediterranean but are vastly different.
Talithea@reddit
Spain is Warm Mediterranean (Spain, south of France, Portugal, southern 2/3 of Italy). Croatia is Balcan Mediterranean (Croatia, partially Slovenia, Albania, Montenegro, Macedonia). Cyprus is Anatolian Mediterranean (Turkey, Greece, Cyprus, southern part of Bulgaria). Lybia is African Mediterranean (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt). Israel is Levantine Mediterranean (Lebanon, Eastern Jordan, Palestine).
Routine_Comb_7277@reddit
*North Macedonia
Didudidudadu737@reddit
Oh my Lord, you do realise that when people exclude *North they are just saving time instead of wanting to trigger someone?!
StillMaintenance8478@reddit
So if someone says that he is from America he doesn't have to clarify that. So all Americans be it North or South are the same? An Argentinian and a Canadian are both Americans by this logic. This makes zero sense. So North and South Koreans don't need to specify where they are from? The official name that the country fought to obtain is North Macedonia. And they obtained it, so they might as well be proud of it and keep it whole.
Little-Cap-3225@reddit
Y pq macedonia del norte y no Bulgaria del oeste
Routine_Comb_7277@reddit
Yes because we have a Macedon as well in Greece(Hellada).
Didudidudadu737@reddit
But we don’t call them Macedon, but Makedonci and no one is implying they are antique people of Macedon. You really have to be stop being so triggered, it’s becoming a circlejerk
DekadentniTehnolog@reddit
I refuse to call them anything else than Makedonci and Makedonija. Fuck me but we all know that dalmatians are slavic yet they have a regional name based on roman province. Same goes for Lombardy. Where are these germanic tribes now? Ffs.
Little-Cap-3225@reddit
Los dálmatas son perros, son blancos con manchas negras
Routine_Comb_7277@reddit
Well it is kind of your fault(Serbs) these people are Makedonci in the first place when they have nothing to do with Macedonia except maybe living there after mass migration.
And no im not backing down , I generally have good faith in people but N.Macedonians are huge morons , thieves and charlatans so it needs to be clarified every single time it is mentioned on the internet.
Soft-Ruin-9182@reddit
Calm down Greek baby
Didudidudadu737@reddit
How can it not be Serbian fault, Vesuvius was our fault, the comet that killed the dinosaurs as well, somehow Trump is our fault and God knows what else. It’s just a name, grow up
Routine_Comb_7277@reddit
It was your dictator Tito that promoted that narrative.I live in Macedonia and my grandparents lived in Macedonia ,it is cultural erasure.We Macedons are indeed slightly different than the Southern Greeks,classical Greece was mostly them while we had Alexander the Great but still it is not nice to be taken your own genuine piece of history by some morons.Thanks.
Didudidudadu737@reddit
The Mars craters are also Serbian fault! Croatian Tito just revived Serbian antique position in the world after the civilisation started when god chosen Serbs built the pyramids in Egypt because Serbia is all the way to Tokyo.
Routine_Comb_7277@reddit
Sorry I just searched it and Tito was Croatian,sorry to all serbs.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
lol.
Greece has nothing to do w/ "Anatolia"
& Bulgaria isn't Mediterranean, lol.
(even tho they REALLY tried, stealing Macedonia/Thrace).
Candid_Yard3581@reddit
Χαχαχ καλα πανε μια στη γαλλια και μετα στη αιγυπτο και πες μου με ποιους μοιαζουμε πιο πολυ
das_clit@reddit
Israel is Levantine? Bro just making shit up from Brasov
Turbulent-Debate7661@reddit
Israel is located in levant
Where_is_justice9@reddit
Unlawfully, but yeah.
Turbulent-Debate7661@reddit
Thats a discussion
das_clit@reddit
So is Lebanon and Palestine and parts of Syria
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
"Palestine" is a region, (not a country).
AideSpartak@reddit
It’s a country
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
lol.
AideSpartak@reddit
What’s funny? The vast vast majority of the world recognises the Palestinian state
Where_is_justice9@reddit
Country is define by a sovereign state with distinct borders and laws.
Before the official nation split Palestine as an Arab-Muslim majority state had laws, governance, define borders, and officials binding those laws.
Even before the Palestine mandate of Britain, during the Ottoman rule; even those the modern definition of "laws" and "statehood" weren't as concrete and set in stone in the backwards Ottoman Empire, there still were Arab-Muslim mayors and city officials.
Palestine is, and has been for a very long time (certainly longer than Israel) a country.
Admirable_Gas1653@reddit
Correct
Peermeneer_exe@reddit
Why is this getting upvoted, they disproved their own point😭
AtlasAoE@reddit
Yes, and those are levantine too. What's your point
Turbulent-Debate7661@reddit
Are you stupid af?
yummleg@reddit
And portugal is honorary Mediterranean.
Candid_Yard3581@reddit
But us greeks don’t want to accept how close we are to arabs culturally. Allow us to say Mediterranean and avoid the question please
Fantastic-Yak-6373@reddit
Thanks! As a Spanish, I'm tired when people talk about 'the mediterranean way of life' like wtf, even a salad is not the same in Spain than in italy, let alone the Balkans or northern Africa.
Individual_Formal130@reddit
It's the anti North Euro club I think. That's what it usually sounds like tbh.
Majestic_Potato_5408@reddit
Talking of salads, Macedonia can also mean different things depending on location ;)
Substratas@reddit (OP)
What does culturally Mediterranean mean? ’Cuz it sure ain’t like Barcelona, chile…
Individual_Formal130@reddit
Wine, easy living, islands, lazing around dancing and having fun, not getting too drunk, good vibes, foods oh and foods.
thanasis87kav@reddit
It definitely isn't Novi Sad, actually as a large island it has much more in common with other large islands, not middle east of fn Balkans lol
OkHorse933@reddit
Of the entire Balkans, you chose a city which is geographically not Balkan
ilijadwa@reddit
My fam are from Hercegovina and Dalmatia and I definitely feel “Mediterranean” (as well as Balkan).
thanasis87kav@reddit
Even worse for the original argument then.
Efficient_Resource15@reddit
I always knew Cyprus and Zagreb were pretty much the same xd
Substratas@reddit (OP)
So it’s culturally closer to Corsica than to the Levant, right?
Individual_Formal130@reddit
Ethnic or non north European is what it means.
Kaamos_666@reddit
This is not an either/or topic though. You can be both Mediterranean & Balkan, Mediterranean & West Asian, Balkan & West Asian (Balkan Turks) etc. in varying degrees. For instance, Bulgaria is both Balkan & Eastern European, while Greece is Balkan & Mediterranean. Arguably Turkey can be considered Balkan & West Asian & Mediterranean at the same time, and this can apply to Cyprus too. These terms each signify different cultural, anthropologic, and historical elements and conditions.
thatMrGecko@reddit
mediterranean identity is the best identity
Zestyclose_Piece_427@reddit
Honorary Balkan
processorT1@reddit
Greek mediterranean
ComputersAndPunches@reddit
Its Greek
merdeauxfraises@reddit
I honestly think the Cypriots are more of a cultural mix of Arabs+Brits than Greeks and they look down upon Greeks so much that it tracks... I have never met a Cypriot that considered themselves Balkan.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Cypriots are 0% Arabs. How wrong you are.
In actual fact. Cypriots are more ancient Greeks than mainland Greeks who are a modern creation of Albanians and slavs who settled in the middle ages.
The Roman era Greeks were genetically all like cypriots. A recent study from ancient Corinth has proved this. There is no DNA profile resembling modern mainland Greeks older than 800 years.
merdeauxfraises@reddit
I meant culturally. Cypriot food is closer to middle eastern rather than Greek and all Cypriots pretend to be richer than they are exactly like Arabs do.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
How wrong you are.
You eat less pork and more chicken.
Your kebabs (gyros) are literally rotating masses where you shave heavily spiced meat like a doner kebab.
You make spiced beef Arab thing like pastourma.
Your mezes have every middle eastern dip under the sub
You eat masses of baklava, Arab bougatsa. We eat grape juice, pasteli, Soutzoukos. Ancient Mediterranean food.
Cypriot food is basic flavours. You're literally swimming in Arab cuisine.
merdeauxfraises@reddit
Our national dish is fasolada… this speaks volumes about the state of your knowledge.
The things you mentioned are not all prevalent in all areas of Greece and lots of Greeks who made many of those mainstream through the latest centuries were minorities that came from other formerly Greek regions like Alexandria, Smyrna and Pontos. Northern Greece, liberated 100 years after the south, has more influences by Turkish cuisine (which is basically Arab cuisine) as well for obvious reasons. Northern matter what historical reasons contributed to what is today Greek and Cypriot cuisines, we have to admit to the fact that they are vastly different as results.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Fasolada might be honorary title but more likely moussaka and gyros.... Both of which are imports from the east.
Whether you admit it or not. Greece food is surprisingly more diverse in origin than cypriot food despite the latter being further from the region.
Turkish is not Arabs. Arabs are from Arabia.
merdeauxfraises@reddit
This is exactly what I am saying though. Greek food has had influences, Cypriot food is entirely modeled after arabian and levantine food.
PikrovrisiTisMerikas@reddit
Arabs+Brits? Seriously?
What exactly is the difference between Cyprus and Crete. As a Cypriot I can tell you that we are identical to the islands of Greece located in our proximity.
merdeauxfraises@reddit
Half your vocabulary is cypriotified English and your language is indecipherable to Greeks. You all pretend to be richer than you are, like Arabs do. Your cuisine is closer to mussel eastern than Greek and it contains spices never used in mainland or island Greek cuisine. Finally, I’ve never met a Cypriot who didn’t look down upon Greeks. All snobbish and forming Cypriot cliques wherever you go because you think of Greeks as peasants and yourselves royalty. I’m not saying any of these with spite or anger and I have no personal investment but this is how things are, why the denial?
FatherMozgus@reddit
Cyprus identical to the Greek islands is a massive reach.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
It's literally identical to Rhodes.
FatherMozgus@reddit
In terms of what?
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Culture, the dialect is near identical, even genetics. They're more similar to eachother than any other population.
Both groups completely lack any Slavic or Balkan ancestry.
Here's closest genetics group to Cypriots. Eg a Rhodes Greeks twice as near as a Lebanese Christian.
FatherMozgus@reddit
Culture, way of life, historical memory are vastly different. The historical experiences of Rhodes and Cyprus are extremely different. They would be near identical if Cyprus was also a neglected Greek island.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Which elements of culture are vastly different? The 3 big ones, language, religion and climate are near identical.
Reverse the clock 30 years and they were extremely similar. They've obviously splintered due differing governing structures.
Theyve both become tourist hotspots. Cyprus became multinational, plenty of expats, russians, Jews, mass migration. Rhodes stayed more the same but was dragged down by balkan mindset mismanagement.
Rhodes is like Cyprus 30 years ago.
Id rather than the direction Cyprus is heading, some mixed up Dubai mess.
FatherMozgus@reddit
For one thing Rhodes has not been invaded and occupied. Kids in Rhodes don’t join the army and get stationed along the green line and the number one topic in the political scene in Rhodes has not been the resolution of the occupation for 5 decades. Also the economies of Rhodes and Cyprus other than the major tourist industry are completely different. Development and infrastructure is different. Urbanisation is different.
ComputersAndPunches@reddit
Worst take ever from a Turk cuck
Ready_Substance8456@reddit
What about the 500k Turkish Cypriots, are they greek as well?
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
They're mostly imported from 1980s. Don't make me laugh. Being illegally settled in a place does not make you that culture.
Original Turkish cypriots were absolutely more aegean culture than Turkish.
Ready_Substance8456@reddit
"Being illegally settled in a place" .Sorry bud, didnt know it was "legally" not allowed to win a war against Venetians and occupy their island and rule it for the next 300 years. Next time we would ask you if "you" "legally" allow us.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Does the same apply to rape, murder and pedofilia? Or you don't need to be allowed to commit those things?
It's objectively illegal under multiple UN charters the illegal settlement of Cyprus in 1980s... The age of law....not the age of conquest that you seem to mix up. Perhaps that's the problem. Are you stuck in 1600s?
As for the Venetian conquest. What a proud history, the slaughter and rape of 20,000 Greeks in Nicosia!
Ready_Substance8456@reddit
1) You want to talk about rape and murder? Let's talk about the Akritas Plan, the 1963 operation planned and executed by Greek Cypriots that systematically attacked and destroyed Turkish Cypriot villages and drove entire communities into enclaves. Those atrocities were committed by Greeks as part of their enosis project "the organized effort to annex Cyprus to Greece" while systematically eliminating Turkish Cypriot presence in the process. That's what was happening before 1974. And if this was the "barbaric Turks wanting to reconquer Cyprus" fantasy you seem to have in your head, do you really think half the island would still be Greek?
2) The 1974 intervention was legally grounded in the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee, which explicitly designated Turkey as a guarantor power specifically to protect the Turkish Cypriot population on the island. That treaty gave Turkey the explicit right to take military action in the event of any attempt to unite Cyprus with Greece or place it under Greek sovereignty, which is exactly what the Greek junta-backed coup was trying to do. That's not an "invasion", that's a guarantor power exercising its treaty rights. Learn the difference.
3) Turkish Cypriots are not "imported." There has been a continuous Turkish/Muslim Cypriot population on the island since the Ottoman period, that's centuries before 1974. I mentioned the 300 years of Ottoman rule in my previous reply precisely because of this, but given the comprehension issues already on display in your comments, I wasn't surprised I had to spell it out again. Calling them illegitimate settlers doesn't make it true, it just shows you either don't know the history or you're choosing to ignore it.
"As for the Venetian conquest, that 20,000 figure seems highly exaggerated. And every conquest of that era was bloody, including the Venetians taking the island before the Ottomans did. But sure, only the 'barbaric Turks' are the slaughterers here."
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
You think a guarantee for the integrity of the republic means take half the island? And settle it with Turks?
Is your propoganda that stupid?
There is 0 defence or legal justification for it.
That's like saying to honour this guarantee for your television, I need to take your house. Makes 0 sense and is completely illegal.
As for the cause of the invasion, you know it's violence on both sides? 400 dead tcyp and 300 dead gcyp in 10 years. Or do your books not teach you that?
When turkey invaded, they killed 2500 and raped 3000 in 2 weeks. With 1000 still missing yet somehow eoka were the murderers? Not only that but turkey invaded AFTER EOKA FELL.
You killed more more people in 2 weeks than all deaths in 10 years.
Turks decided to do something even more unbelievable, remove 180k natives from their homes. Then mass import mainland Turks into their stolen houses.
Isn't that the most diabolical thing ?
You're not on the right side of history here. Do some research.
desertedlamp4@reddit
And btw yes, it does, it's been so many since they've been there, their kids speak Cypriot Turkish and lived and grew up there
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
That is completely irrelevant. They're the biproduct of illegal occupiers who ethnically cleaned a native population into stolen house and imported by the Turkish government to Turkify the population.
If I invaded Ghana, removed the local people, stole their houses, had Children then drew a passport worth nothing that noone recognises, can I now claim to be Ghanaian?
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
So? They're literally illegally AliExpress imports into stolen houses following the complete ethnic cleansing of native population.
Don't embarrass yourself.
desertedlamp4@reddit
Many Turkish Cypriots had to leave the island due to better opportunities and discrimination, they've been immigrating since forever, no matter how hard you try, you'll not erase their existence and identity
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Is it not you who erased their identity but turkification and importing AliExpress Turks who make up 60% population in north?
Are you stupid?
ComputersAndPunches@reddit
They have Greek roots as do they all of the Turks
MrBlackHearse@reddit
Its more Greek.
There. I said it.
NireasX@reddit
Cyprus is Middle Eastern
Possible-Wallaby-877@reddit
Even many Greeks don't consider themselves Balkan. Doubt Cyprus feels any different. At least the Greek part
kuhinjski@reddit
Balkan for me is more like ex-Yu + Bulgaria and Albania. Greece is something else.
CamelAmbitious7425@reddit
How is Greece Something else? Greece is very Balkan especially its Northern parts, only some Islands dont feel Balkan but the same can be said for Croatia
Cristopia@reddit
Balkan is a state of mind. Its limits are subjective. Even Austria is Balkan to Romanians.
Efficient_Resource15@reddit
I wouldn't call austria balkan lol Maybe hungary at best if only a state of mind applies, they can be wild
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
Hungary is not Balkan. It's like to say Belarus or Russia being Balkan. Even Romania is not that Balkan like other Balkan.
Efficient_Resource15@reddit
I didnt call hungary that balkan, romania is overall pretty balkanic
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
The epicenter of Balkan is according to my life experience goes in South Serbia, N.Macedonia, Kosovo, Albania, Montenegro and Bosnia. Although Bosnia was Habsburg ruled like Romanian territories it's really Balkan.
What I have seen and I'm not Romanian, Central and West Romania doesn't sound like Balkan to me.
Efficient_Resource15@reddit
Central and northwest romania is not all romania, jist like Zagreb or osije is not all croatia. Southern romania is pretty much fully balkanic in terms of culture, heritage, attitude and otherwise.
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
if you have Catholic Christian people by origin I mean you are not much Balkan. Wasn't Moldavia Russian meaning it's eastern?
Efficient_Resource15@reddit
That makes no sense, romanians aren't catholic :))) those are the hungarjan minority.
Croats and slovenes are aswell as some albanians and croats in bosnia are they not balkanic? I was talking about romanian moldova, there is a region of romanian called moldova too
Strange_Status_7690@reddit
yea sorry I known orthodox Christian people. I'm a Slavic from Balkan country. I mean Romania is really nice country but very large one. so far have been in Temišvar only and looked nice.
Efficient_Resource15@reddit
Yeah, they are russified romanians
KonstantinVeliki@reddit
If Austria is not Balkan then Balkan culture doesn’t exist, who balkanased everyone if not them?
Majestic_Potato_5408@reddit
Ottomans and Hungary should get a mention too, they were the OG Yugoslavia.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
lol the cope.
Croatia, (ur country, not sure y u have the German flair) is Yugoslavia.
ur like Serbians, (few differences).
outside online spaces (meaning, subs like this) almost no one considers Greece Balkan.
I was in England for over a decade, now Belgium, I've travelled to many countries across Europe, it's the reality.
like I said to u, before. perception.
doingmyjobhere@reddit
It doesn't matter who considers Greece Balkans, it's how they live and what they do. If you visit all the Balkan countries you can see that the upper border is roughly Slovenia which feels more "western" while all other countries below have the same feeling and issues with chaos in traffic, corruption, mentality, etc.
CamelAmbitious7425@reddit
There is perception and there is reality. As i already told you before only people who have never been to Greece or only to some touristic Island think that Greece isn't Balkans. Croatia is more similiar to Serbia than Greece is but at the same time Greece is more similiar to Albania or Bulgaria than Croatia is. Why does the opinion of uneducated and ignorant Brits, or Belgians matter more than the truth? I bet Most of the people who dont think that Greece is Balkans cant even find it on the map. So stop coping and except the reality.
Lvl100Centrist@reddit
The people who don't like being called Balkan are usually weird online dudes who think they are some kind of enlightened europeans (or wannabe latins/italians) and are better than the rest of us.
It's an inferiority complex, basically.
Individual_Formal130@reddit
Never heard Greeks say they are Balkans rather Mediterraneans. It could depend on what groups they hang out with though.
Pineloko@reddit
we ex yugoslavs often use “balkan” as a euphemism for our former country, as we don’t want to say the Y word but we need a term for this shared linguistic and cultural space
seems to create this weird situation where people forget that the rest of the balkan countries exist
manytopics@reddit
As a Greek from Northern Greece, I agree. Greece is something similar to Italy and Spain—that is, Southern Europe or the Northern Mediterranean
Mobile-Recognition17@reddit
Literally no Greeks consider themselves Balkan. "Even many" is still inaccurate. Greeks are Greek, their own culture and history is so massive that they don't have useless comparisons like this.
Yavannia@reddit
But we are Balkan both geographically and culturally...
Several-Zombies6547@reddit
The Balkans is a peninsula, so only the mainland is geographically Balkan. Culturally, it entirely depends where you are located. Greece is more than Macedonia and Thrace.
Yavannia@reddit
So you saw the recent scandals and how awfully built Athens is and you still think we don't suit to be Balkans? Or Balkans is something that only describes northern Greece?
Several-Zombies6547@reddit
You specifically said that we are Balkan "culturally". Corruption and lack of infrastructure are not inherent parts of any culture. Culture is our traditions, beliefs etc.
doingmyjobhere@reddit
Which are similar to every Balkan country. Being ruled by the same empires for thousands of years the culture tends to shift to similar traditions and beliefs. Nobody is saying all western Europe is the same, but the culture and tradition are similar to putting them in the western culture.
LiisuWrath@reddit
no! Greeks are Greek!
everyone else is defined geographically, some may be also defined culturally. Not the Greeks!!
we're superior and just Greeks. never have the Greeks been anything at all other than Greeks, trust me. /s
Lvl100Centrist@reddit
Talk for yourself, many of us consider ourselves Balkan. A reason for this is that we know basic geography and history. People can be many things at once (at various orders of significance, being Greek is obviously #1)
Mobile-Recognition17@reddit
Thanks for your perspective then, maybe I shouldn't generalise things. I'm not Greek but my partner of 6+ years is a Thessalonian. I've not heard of them refer themselves as Balkan, but of course they're not stupid either, and understand that on average a Greek probably has more in common with a Croatian than a Spaniard.
Yavannia@reddit
So you aren't even Greek but decided to say "Literally no Greeks consider themselves Balkan" with such confidence? I don't know what to even say anymore.
Lvl100Centrist@reddit
Well its not something we talk about often because its a relatively minor thing that even isn't a concrete "identity". I think today it refers to some shared cultural attitudes across this region but again its not a big deal. Also the term "Balkan" has had a somewhat convoluted history and is linked to negative stereotypes as well. So maybe that plays a part.
CmdrJemison@reddit
Not true. My best friend is Greek from Kavala and considers Greece as Balkan. Which is geographically true.
Sempra@reddit
I’m Greek as well and we are definitely balkan.
CmdrJemison@reddit
Nice 💪🏻
Sempra@reddit
Greeks are balkan lil bro.
Several-Zombies6547@reddit
I've noticed that in Greece, "Balkan" as a denonym is used primarily by teenagers who think it's some kind of gang culture. Outside of these circles, I haven't heard anyone refer to themselves as Balkan.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
exactly this. I have, also, spoken. against people
who say Greece is simply "Mediterranean" & only compare us to Italy.
n
manytopics@reddit
I am Greek and i agree. Greece is more southern Europe or northern Mediterranean to me
Altruistic-Long-1557@reddit
I would argue that even south Turkey ( behind the Taurus Mountains) is Levantine..
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
South Turkey is alot more Levantine than Cyprus. Cyprus is more like western turkey.
desertedlamp4@reddit
^ This guy spouts non-sense btw
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Be upset. DNA testing shows they overlap with Syrians.
Safe-Anywhere-6838@reddit
Cypriots are hellenized canaanites
Natgrish@reddit
As an Easter European living in Cyprus I would say it’s pretty unique. Unlike mainland Balkans it doesn’t have Slavic influence at all, but has some Middle Eastern touch and British heritage instead that is not that typical for other countries of Balkan.
Individual_Formal130@reddit
British in what way ?
desertedlamp4@reddit
Lmao you cannot be serious 😭 they literally drive on the opposite side and they have British brands in markets
Automatic-One8794@reddit
Culturally an east Mediterranean country.. (Levantine/West Asian) it’s culturally very different from Greek agean culture but its shifting towards it
waillord_@reddit
Cypriots are the real levantine greeks
bored-and-asleep@reddit
Cypriot natives came from levant came there even before Greek word existed along with ancient Anatolians. Greek dna in Cyprus natives even in the south part around %30-40 that came from mainland Greece thousands of years after first natives. Then there is canaanites which still have significant dna. Lastly Roman settlers anatolians, Greeks and levantines. Land helenised in this period and Greek speaking becomes dominant.
waillord_@reddit
didnt the phoenicians colonise the island before the greeks, if i am not mistaken?
Playful-Alfalfa5729@reddit
Cyprus had it's own natives until Alexander's conquests.
Though they had strong connections from the Greek mainland through trade and basically was waiting to be integrated into the Greek world in the aftermath of Alexander.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Not true.... They had Myceneans and spoke linear b longer than any part of modern Greece.
Playful-Alfalfa5729@reddit
Linear B is a trading script my man, not a language and their usage doesn't mean they spoke Mycenaean, more likely meant Mycenaean merchants arrived there since B usage is very limited. And despite having a script that developed from linear A, the words are not Greek, just like Sumerian writing, Hittites and Assyrians had the same Sumerian script. We clearly know they had their own natives in the bronze age and that the Greek cultural influence on them only began in the iron age with pottery replication from the Greek mainland. Full Hellenization is with Alexander.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Wrong. You don't use a script without interaction.
You're arguing about common knowledge. Myceneaens literally settled Cyprus and built cities.
Cypriot Syllabary was used to write greek well before Alexander. The used different scripts to write greek language.
We have evidence of cypriot cities like Salamis sending people to ancient greek Olympics. A greek only event.
The Hellenisation of Macedonia that created Alexander occured almost 500 years after the Hellenisation of Cyprus by Myceneans.
Stop lying through your teeth.
Playful-Alfalfa5729@reddit
"Cypriot syllabary used to write Greek" Straight up forging shit up eh? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eteocypriot_language?wprov=sfla1 Read, then comeback I also didn't deny Greek influence. Mycenaean influence isn't enough to call them Greek. Assyrian influence was several times greater in mid-bronze age Anatolia than Mycenaeans in Cyprus but we don't make Anatolians Assyrian do we? And foreigners having influence simply doesn't make them something else. They clearly had their way of things, and just like I said slowly Hellenized in a similar process in Eastern Aegean. Don't start claiming Eastern Aegean was Greek this time, neither archaeology nor genetics support that, just like in Cyprus.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Stop the cope. Eteo Cypriot was Minoan like people. Even 1400 BC, it's got a link to the pre greek Aegean. Myceneaen influence in Cyprus was several magnitudes larger in Cyprus than in anatolia and is linked to the very start of ancient Greece.
Anatolians were never an ethnos, theres like 20 different kingdoms and tribes.
Your link.....
Ardocypriot psydonunous to Mycenaean and it was spoken longer than any part of the greek world. Wtf were cypriots speaking the same language of Arcadia, in Peloponnese, the most ancient form of greek longer than anyone else? If you went back to Cyprus 600 BC, they were speaking the language of agenemon and Achilles.
Myceneaen survived the longest in Cyprus. Alexander basically converted the locals from Mycenaean greek to koine greek. That's what really happened.
Even in modern cypriot today, it preserves more Mycenaean etymology than any other greek dialect.
You claiming that Alexander went to Cyprus and Hellensied a bunch of random people is massively ahistorical and just plain wrong. When the evidence is that Cyprus greekness predates much of modern Greece. Macedonia itself is circa 600 BC become part of greek world, 600 years after Myceneans settled cyprus.
Playful-Alfalfa5729@reddit
"Myceneaen influence in Cyprus was several magnitudes larger in Cyprus than in Anatolia and is linked to the very start of ancient Greece."
I believe you meant "Larger influence from Mycenea to Cyprus than Assyrians to Anatolia" rather than Mycenaens in Anatolia.
Simply wrong. And literally other way around. Logistical hub of Neşa exerted tremendous influence to not only Neşa and nearby settlements but to rural Anatolia as well, in both art, pottery, martial equipment, architecture(mittelsaalhaus), city planning and religion. Exerted all to way to later Hattusa which is 200km away, so your "Anatolians were never an ethnos, theres like 20 different kingdoms and tribes" though on it's own true, doesn't support the reality and therefore this argument. Aegean influence in bronze age Cyprus is whole lot less visible, and definetely not "Eteo Cypriot was Minoan like people"
"Why the hell were cypriots speaking the same language of Arcadia, in Peloponnese, the most ancient form of greek longer than anyone else? If you went back to Cyprus 600 BC, they were speaking the language of agenemon and Achilles."
Greek settlers, not because Cyprus was Greek. Cyprus was not uniform and the Greeks were clearly latecomers. Their influence is why I precisely said "Cyprus was basically waiting to be integrated to the Greek world" In the iron age. I believe this answers this part as well:
"Myceneaen survived the longest in Cyprus. Alexander basically converted the locals from Mycenaean greek to koine greek. That's what really happened.
Even in modern cypriot today, it preserves more Mycenaean etymology than any other greek dialect."
----------------------------------------------
"You claiming that Alexander went to Cyprus and Hellensied a bunch of random people is massively ahistorical and just plain wrong."
I think misphrased that part, because i didn't want to type too much which is why added "waiting to be integrated to the Greek world"
"And genetics suggest that Cyprus have some of the least differentiation to Mycenaeans" Provide a credible source then. I haven't been able to find something that compares bronze age Myceneans to bronze age Cypriots.
--------------------------------------------
And also after writing all the way down here, ohh I get it now, your thinking I am tryna create a "Cyprus was never Greek" narrative because I am a Turk and therefore must justify our presence in Cyprus somehow. Well, your aggressiveness is pointless since that ain't my goal.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
The cringe keeps going. You stated Cyprus became Hellensied because of Alexander which is the most preposterous propoganda against a very ancient people. It's extremely sad. Cyprus is at the literal base layer of the ancient greek world, active in the Trojan war. Predating the upper half of modern mainland Greece by almost 700 years. 6000 year old Cypriots, Minoans, Mycenaeans, anatolians were all broadly similar populations. Just massive anatolian neolthic farmer population.
Now you're claiming their migrant? It's so stupid. The entire human race is a migrant from Africa. Greeks on Cyprus predates almost every ethnic group on the planet. English 700 ad, french 600ad, Spanish 1000ad, polish 900ad, Turkics 800ad. Myceneaen on Cyprus 1400 ad. Even your Alexander is 340 BC! There is more evidence Alexander was Hellensied than Cypriots.
You know I uploaded our entire conversation into AI and simply asked it who is correct with no knowledge on who is who.
I get it, you've been sold by your government and people completely nonsense stories to legitimise destroying a people with near 4000 year presence, because Cyprus was never greek ... Greece was created in 1821 and the peace operation meant you had to resettle it!
You're not the worse of Turko propoganda. Some people claim Cypriots are Arabs who were settled there by mainland Greece in 1950....
Playful-Alfalfa5729@reddit
"The cringe keeps going. You stated Cyprus became Hellensied because of Alexander which is the most preposterous propoganda against a very ancient people."
Literally my comment: "I think misphrased that part, because i didn't want to type too much which is why added "waiting to be integrated to the Greek world"
"Their argument reflects the academic consensus: Cyprus became part of the Greek linguistic and cultural world during the Late Bronze Age/Early Iron Age, nearly 800 years before Alexander the Great."
I've literally stated massive Greek influence really only began in the iron age with pottery replication, WHICH IS 800 years before the Alexander. Literally validates my point.
For the rest I really wonder how many instances of text and my cherry picked responses you've inserted to AI(who always agrees with you) to get this inaccurate bullshit, I thought I was talking to someone who was somewhat versed in archaeology, apparently not. You are the Greek version of Turks claiming Scythians being Turkish.
Ok βuddy, I won't continue this discussion any longer.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Are you the type of person who believes that 5g causes cancer? Or COVID vaccine is mind control?
I used my superior intellect in my responses to you. and used AI to prove to you that I wasn't this shit up considering how outlandish your claims were.
I really suggest you do some research and stop with the propoganda. As much as you scream that covid vaccine is mind control, it really isn't.
As for scythians, people with no written records, no evidence they were ever an ethnos, even identified as anything other than nomad tribal communities living in tents, to put them in the same league as Mycenaeans and ancient Greeks who built civilisation Cyprus is so hilarious.
The only reason you know anything scythians is due to an Anatolian greek - herodutus, the same source which describes the residents on Cyprus as being Arcadians.... The deep irony.
waillord_@reddit
interesting
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
No. Phoenicians came after
waillord_@reddit
are u sure? pretty sure phoenicians had it, before then there werenon greek cypriot natives, greeks came after rome took it from the phoenicians which led to the islands hellenization. and even then, it still has semitic peoples, most notably the maronites of cyprus, who speak an arabic influenced a lot by the greek language
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
It literally had Mycenean Greeks on it. They spoke linear b prior to phoenician culture.The Greeks were even in Lebanon before the phoencians were in Cyprus.
These same Mycenaeans (sea people) mixed with Canaanites to form phoencians.
Yes, phoenician graves in Lebanon are 25% greek admixed.
waillord_@reddit
i think that last statement might be false, but i dunno
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929720301555
Phoencians were local people + 25% Mycenean admixture. Coinciding with philistines and sea people.
waillord_@reddit
i think their genetic later died out in Lebanon then
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
(they're not Greek).
waillord_@reddit
wait according to u cypriots are not greek? ur standpoints are really confusing not gonna lie
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
nope.
(I explained my definition in another comment here, it basically boils down to: culture, language, identity, history).
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Yes. They're ancient greek whilst you're a slavo Albanian creation who were rehellenised by people like Cypriots.
Unfortunately genetic science has ruined your dreams.
You literally rewrote your language in 1800s trying to clean it up whisky hellenising slavs whilst cypriots remained original.
waillord_@reddit
Ah ok.
Childh8ter@reddit
yes
SnooOnions2590@reddit
100% Greek
SnooOnions2590@reddit
NEITHER
bodymisery@reddit
It’s Turko - Greek
tomsevans@reddit
Middle eastern
Immediate_Engine3066@reddit
both
Resident_Utahraptor_@reddit
We're culturally far more Middle-eastern coded than Balkan. We are, however, ethnically Caucasian.
Happy-Hour88@reddit
It's both. BTW economically it's wealthier than any Balkan country aside from Slovenia because it had longer british rule than Corfu. Slovenia is wealthy only because of the heavy Austrian influence, otherwise it would've been like Croatia. It's evident we in the Southern Europe need to be ruled by Anglo Saxons or Germans to prosper. Just compare the purchasing power of locals of Gibraltar to those in Cadiz or Faro.
konschrys@reddit
Cyprus’ GDP per capita is higher than Slovenia’s
Happy-Hour88@reddit
Even more so a proof that Anglo-Saxon influence is good for Southern Europe. Other examples are Malta and Gibraltar.
Infamous-Chemist-502@reddit
No they are just little tax heavens most economies of scale can not replicate their financial success
konschrys@reddit
I think this is more accurate. It’s easier to manage small countries, especially when you’ve got attractive tax frameworks.
Happy-Hour88@reddit
Then how aren't Montenegro and Kosovo tax heavens and the Balkan versions of Switzerland for example?
konschrys@reddit
There’s no way you’re trying to compare Kosovo to Cyprus. Cyprus might be occupied but it is perceived as safer than Kosovo. It is wealthier, part of the EU, and generally has a robust real estate market. Neither Montenegro nor Kosovo are in the EU. The latter has partial state recognition too.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
It was literally left poor with half the countries refugees.
Cyprus is wealthy because of good management. Unlike Balkan countries with mass corruption.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
It's evident we in the Southern Europe need to be ruled by Anglo Saxons or Germans to prosper. Just compare the purchasing power of locals of Gibraltar to those in Cadiz or Faro.
You have a point. Malta is also ballin’.
I still am not sure if it’s just because Anglos & Germanics are inherently more honest people, and not as corrupt as us (at least their educated class), or because they’ve mastered the art of scamming the rest of the world without being noticed.
Individual_Formal130@reddit
Yes we are more noble people.
Substratas@reddit (OP)
https://i.redd.it/4pcj1ajaa9tg1.gif
Individual_Formal130@reddit
😉
CamelAmbitious7425@reddit
No the Balkans shouldnt be ruled by any foreign Power. Sure Austria did less damage than the Ottomans and thats why Croatia and Slovenia are today more developed than Albania or Bulgaria but no foreign rule will be ever better than true Independence.
deviendrais@reddit
Bait used to be believable
ImamTrump@reddit
It’s European and thus Balkan.
thatMrGecko@reddit
cyprus is not in europe, come on
Final-Nebula-7049@reddit
Cyprus is Europe, but Turkey is not. Everyone knows this basic geography!
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
All of turkey would be in Europe if not for the Turkics and it remained Hellenic
Europe is a cultural club.
Turks are Muslim and speak a language related to Japanese....
20% of Turkey is in the in the Mediterranean climate Vs all of Cyprus. Much of turkey is middle eastern style climate.
All of Cyprus climate is like that of Spain or Italy.
Final-Nebula-7049@reddit
Related to Japanese? What are you smoking mate?
Turkish climate is extremely variable due to its standalone peninsula apart from Asia, Europe and Africa. Turks are pagans with no connection to Japan but cousins with Koreans, which I assume you meant. Turks are now culturally Muslim but nothing like the Arabs as we drink, avoid mosques, party
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Perhaps you should research your country and language some more.
Your language is literally related to Japanese.
You have east Asian DNA like Japanese.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic_languages
You're more removed from Europe than Iran
Final-Nebula-7049@reddit
We have nothing in common with Japan. Turcic people came from Central Asia. It is possible Cengiz's DNA influenced Japan, but the language has no roots to each other. Turkish, Finnish, and Hungarian, which is also Turksih are their own root.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Apart from a language family and DNA?
I've literally shared the link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic_languages
Turkish, finish, Hungarian, Japanese are all part of the same family.
Native anatolian languages were indo European.
Final-Nebula-7049@reddit
The Turcic roots originate from central asia and spread out. Just because Europeans have American DNA roots don't make them American. The gene travelled in the opposite direction. Japan was influenced and bred by mongols, who also travelled west to Turkey. Turkey doesn't share dna with Japan, Japan shares dna with Turkey because of conquers.
thatMrGecko@reddit
you missed this: "/s"
Final-Nebula-7049@reddit
It's no fun to put s
notnotnotnotgolifa@reddit
this guy is so butthurt
platypusdontlie@reddit
Fuck man, you still out here shilling? How many years it has been, 10 ?
thatMrGecko@reddit
my butt has nothing to do with geography pal
ImamTrump@reddit
Yeah but they’re not Arab either. Most maps would include it as Europe-ish.
Mediterranean? Sure. But that’s all the countries around.
thatMrGecko@reddit
of course. they're cypriots. but the island geographically is in middle east.
ImamTrump@reddit
I choose not to believe
bored-and-asleep@reddit
You choose not to believe maps?
super_pasrelle@reddit
Idk but the photo is cool for sure
ShafferPatchias@reddit
Balkan, definitely balkan 🤣🤣
NoPaleontologist4919@reddit
Cyprus is not in the Balkan Peninsula so how its Balkan?
Substratas@reddit (OP)
NoPaleontologist4919@reddit
OK so more Balkan. Greek cypriots we are christians and we have very similar culture with Greece. Levantine /West Asians are Muslim but I think our food is greek with levantine/west Asian Touch. More specifically i think we have more similar culture with Greek islanders.
Medium_Bike_9954@reddit
Soperceptive@reddit
This looks like a made up flag.
Medium_Bike_9954@reddit
İt's flag of Turkish Republic of Cyprus.
This state was established with a peace operation to stop the greek state that was massacring Turks on the island of cyprus.
thatMrGecko@reddit
easy on the propaganda mate. we sent troops to the island in response to the fascist coup that aimed to ethnically cleanse the island from turkish cypriots. then we occupied half the island and never left. that's not a peace operation.
Medium_Bike_9954@reddit
A genocide was being committed against Turks on the island; you can search for 'Bloody Sunday' (Bloody Christmas) to see what it is. This was a peace operation; we brought peace to the Turks on the island. And we remained to defend them so that they would never again be subjected to the attacks and genocide of terrorist organizations like enosis. Türkiye is the guarantor of the Turkish Republic of Cyprus.
thatMrGecko@reddit
that's not a peace operation. peace operation is conducted by neutral third party to stop a war, for example. we're not a third party. ours was a rightful military intervention.
staying as an occupier, however, was not right. that is more about the defense of our own homeland rather than turkish cypriots, and now we can't leave because it would weaken us in the mediterranean.
Medium_Bike_9954@reddit
The war against the Turks has already been halted. To avoid a repeat of the tragedy in Crete, we must remain on the ground to prevent further massacres and staunchly defend the rights of the Turkish community.
thatMrGecko@reddit
no one's hunting down turkish cypriots in cyprus, and if we left still no one would because they would know the turkish military could once again fuck them up within the hour
our military existence in cyprus only serves our interests, not turkish cypriots'. this is clear as day and it's dishonest to deny it.
Old_Resident8050@reddit
The presidency of Makarios didnt want an ethnic cleanse but a ongoing cooperation between the cypriots. Before the world started to radicalize bit by bit with nationalism (back in the beginning of the 1800), cypriots were cypriots whether christians or mulsim.
Interesting_Key9946@reddit
Makarios was never pro enosis
Old_Resident8050@reddit
Well according to the wiki, he was.
Interesting_Key9946@reddit
Lol he literally invited the Turks to intervene in order the enosis from the junta coup to fail.
Old_Resident8050@reddit
Once again, its in the wiki. In later years, he didn't want the Union because that meant falling under the rule of the Ioanides Junta and subsequently, the USA. He wanted freedom for Cyprus, all Cyprus, not exchange the Brits for the Americans.
Interesting_Key9946@reddit
And here we are still with British bases.
Old_Resident8050@reddit
Thats a different matter altogether
Trick-Ad-7158@reddit
I hope you believe your own lies because nobody else on this planet does
Infamous-Chemist-502@reddit
Don’t people famously believe their own lies swear that’s a saying
thatMrGecko@reddit
all flags are made up
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Made up and unrecognised are 2 separate things. Turkish settlers must cry when they can't find their flag in the emojis.
thatMrGecko@reddit
I wouldn't know
thatMrGecko@reddit
middle eastern for sure
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
You must have been in the north.
thatMrGecko@reddit
how skillfully racist of you
I've been in both. very little difference.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
You just be blind. I've been to both.
North is like morroco. It has open stalls selling spices that don't exist in the south. It has posters of leaders like a dictatorship Iraqi state. It has the sound of call to prayer....
thatMrGecko@reddit
call to prayer makes it middle eastern and lack of it makes it europe?
I think you should stop before embarrassing yourself further, man. I will no longer engage. I suggest you log off.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Well yes. It's not something that exists outside of the middle east. Neither are markets selling spices.
It's because the imports that the Turkish government brought over were from south east turkey and basically identical to Syrians.
thatMrGecko@reddit
saying this in askbalkan of all places, smh
Solid-Country-2977@reddit
I spent one year in Cyprus, primarily in Nicosia. As a Romanian, I perceived the country as a blend of Middle Eastern and Western European influences, combined with a subtle Balkan vibe from its Greek heritage.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Theres limited middle Eastern about it. More west Asian.
Music, language, religion are completely different to even Lebanon across the ocean.
It's like a sister culture to Rhodes.
thatMrGecko@reddit
middle east and west asia are the same thing mate
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
No. Most people think of middle east as Arab speaking. West Asia is like turkey, Armenia, Georgia, iran.
There's a cultural divide between them .
thatMrGecko@reddit
west asia is literally middle east. it's the name we chose to call middle east, because middle east is a eurocentric colonizer-friendly term. you can't just make shit up. words have meanings. it's ok if you don't know, you can always learn.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Youre right, you can always learn.... How embarrassing
thatMrGecko@reddit
right next to an image that covers middle east entirely, lol
Substratas@reddit (OP)
I love me some unbiased opinions. Thank you.
Alive-Arachnid9840@reddit
If Greece and Lebanon had a baby, it would be called Cyprus
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
No. Cyprus is more ancient than those other countries.
Alive-Arachnid9840@reddit
Not fully accurate. Cyprus has earlier prehistoric settlements but there was a bit of discontinuity with the civilizations that later emerged on the island.
Lebanon has older continuous urban civilization since the cities the Phoenicians built 6,000 years ago have been continuously inhabited since.
Lebanese also trace a higher percentage of their DNA to just one ancient civilization, Phoenician one, while Cypriots trace it to 3 or 4 main ones (including Phoenician which on average makes up 20% of their dna).
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
No. Common misconception. Phoencians themselves are a mix of Greeks and Canaanites according to the research. You mixed during the iron age. You're already comparing yourself to admixed populations.
Cypriots are closer genetically to 3000 year old Trojans than Lebanese are to phoencians and top the charts in most endogamous populations by 23andme and ancestrydna. Lebanese do not. You all massively differ based on your religion too.
Alive-Arachnid9840@reddit
So not true lol
Phoenicians are definitely not a mix of greek and Canaanites. They are themselves northern Canaanites.
During Byzantine era and through greek merchants, Mycenaean Greek admixture obviously came into the levant although Anatolian greek is more common. But it’s usually less than 10% in individuals although some Greek Orthodox Lebanese have like 30% Anatolian greek.
Phoenicians are basically northern Canaanites who emerged as a subgroup around 1200 bc. They both have same dna. Phoenicians/Canaanites are a mix of Natufian, Anatolian, and Iranian zagros. I was referring to more recent Anatolian, not 6000-3000 Bc Anatolian, when I said Cypriots were descended from them.
Natufians were semi nomadic people that still practiced hunting gathering. They were not full sedentary. So I wouldn’t link them to modern Cyprus in terms of direct civilizational continuity even though they and the Lebanese both have Natufian ancestry.
Christians might average at around 80% (Maronites being the highest within that) while Muslims (Shias being a bit higher than Sunnis) average at around 70% but they are both majority Phoenicians.
Yes Cypriots and Lebanese are genetically similar either way
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
You're disputing research
There's multiple studies on this.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929720301555
It clearly states that phoencians are 23% admixture of Mycenaean and cannanites....which coincided with the history of the sea people. They samples from Lebanon in the bronze age to samples in Iron age from the same region.
Lebanese are diverse. Shia, Sunni, Christian, orthodox all get differing results
Cypriots do not.
Look at the closest ancient populations to greek cypriots. All these ancient populations are extremely close. 1.8 to 4000 year old Hittite samples.
Alive-Arachnid9840@reddit
Your research paper said the following: We found that the Lebanese Iron Age population can be modeled as a mixture of the local Bronze Age population (63%–88%) and a population related to ancient Anatolians or ancient South-Eastern Europeans (12%–37%) (Table 2 and Figure 2B).
It’s referring to genetic introduction from Bronze Age to Iron Age. Yes, Anatolian input increased during that era. I didn’t see Mycenaean anywhere. Don’t see any contradiction with what I said
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Missed that bit?
The anatolian is interchangeable with Mycenean as both explain the same ancestry. But Mycenean coincides with the shift in material culture and the arrival of philistines so it makes sense.
Ashkenlon_IA1 is a philistine sample(Aegean), anatolian MLBA is like a hittite, anatolian EBA is almost ancestral to Mycenaean and Hittite.
Alive-Arachnid9840@reddit
If your stud can’t even differentiate between Mycenaean and Anatolian, then how can it help claim genetic homogeneity
Ok so you’re basically implying Cypriot civilization traces itself to groups of people who came to Cyprus from modern day Greece and Turkey around 1200bc.
I was telling you Lebanese trace their ancestry to a group of people who established our major cities in 6000 bc, and who still accounted for 63-88 % of the DNA in 1000bc, according to your study, and out of which today we hold about 80% of our modern dna from
Your initial point was that Cypriot civilization was oldest yet you connected their civilization to immigrant groups. I told you Lebanese was oldest.
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
It's a peer reviewed study lol. Anatolians and Myceneans were 80% the same base copper age anatolian population. That's how statistics works unfortunately. Are you descendant from your father or grandparents? That's what youre asking. The point doesn't change that phoencians were mixed with something from west.
Everyone is an immigrant group if you further back.... Cyprus too had cities 6000 years ago and it was likely anatolian farmers, natufian etc as it was in Lebanon.
The question is do you have continuity to these ancient civilisations. Noone is close to 6000 year old populations so it's irrelevant.
Lebanese don't even speak the same language as phoencians, most dont plot close to them.
Cypriots still have that unbroken link to linear b Mycenean. The irony is that Cypriots speak a language that was spoken in the philistine states 3500 years ago and speak koine greek that your ancestors spoke before they switched to arabic....
A modern cypriot could go to Beirut 2000 years ago and communicate with the locals , a modern Lebanese could not....
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
Heres one of the Lebanese Muslim groups comprising 35% population.
Look how mixed up the neolthic ancestry is. East Asian, African signals.
And look at the distance to ancients....
% population.
Alive-Arachnid9840@reddit
Some Lebanese can be very mixed. Looks like your example is a Sunni with probably Egyptian admixture in recent history. That happens. We also have Armenians and Assyrians. I never said we were fully homogenous, I was just giving you averages
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
I'm disputing your claims that cypriots are a mixed population when the reality shows that they're one of the least mixed populations in the region if not the world. That's why they have their own category on ancestry DNA or 23andme.
Modern Greeks are something resembling Cypriot but with a huge amount of Slavic and albanian like ancestry. Many many research studies have shown that mainland Greeks were genetically similar to Dodecanese and cypriots before the mass migration from Europe in the middle ages basically making them more European than their ancient ancestors
Turks are complete outliers due to their east eurasian and highly varied results and don't plot near any ancient population. The ottoman slave trade was vast and didn't discriminate who they mixed with.
Lebanese are a mixed bag. The Christians show strong continuity to phoenicians whilst the remainder (60%) are more varied due to Arab, Turkic influence.
Sardinians, cypriots, Lebanese Christians, Dodecanese, capadocian greeks, Coptic Egyptians are the only Mediterranean populations who are identical to the people of the region 2000 years ago.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
Lebanon is irrelevant, for us.
Individual_Formal130@reddit
Your the same people, cultures, vibe etc etc.
Queen_DH@reddit
No they don't. Balkans have a very slavic culture (except Albanians) and I don't feel like Cyprus is like that at all. Maybe hospitality but that is the case in a lot of countries.
Live-Role7096@reddit
Finally someone said it.
Sad_Chest4087@reddit
As a Cypriot I personally think that Cyprus has a unique identity as a Mediterranean country and that its bizarre ties with turkey and Greece put strain on that identity. Genetically most Cypriots originate from the Levant/west Asia tho.
Vegetable_Staff7717@reddit
gypsy 🤣🤣
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
The gypsy in Cyprus originate from the Balkans...
killsillbill@reddit
Depends who you ask. Historically our DNA is more Syrian. We are more west Asian than we want to believe
Critical_Parking_671@reddit
That's very untrue.
Genetic distance to Mycenaeans.
Individual_Formal130@reddit
I'd say middle eastern because Greeks see themselves as closer to these groups in comparison to northern Europeans. I think Cyprus received alot of gene flow from the levant aswell.
Immediate-Rabbit810@reddit
yep Greeks from Greece see themselves as more west Asian than Balkan.
please refrain from using middle eastern as it's a colonial term. you don't call chinese people far eastern.
Significant_Judge008@reddit
I am Middle Eastern, to whatever extent you want to call it, and I don’t have an issue honestly. Languages change and evolve through time
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
exactly.
Turkey is Middle East.
Significant_Judge008@reddit
…
It’s a combination of everything really, not just the middle east
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
it's Middle East, or "Anatolia"
Asia, basically.
MaestroAce7@reddit
With a population greater than Greece, in it's European part, basically.
Significant_Judge008@reddit
Well yeah, Anatolia is West Asia so Turkey itself IS a west Asian country. With that said, it gets its cultural influence from the Middle East/ west Asia, the Mediterranean and the Balkans so it’s not only one culture but a combination of all three
casual_philosopher02@reddit
as a Greek from Greece you don't know wtf you talking about
northlord2137@reddit
Just one word: Ottoman
konschrys@reddit
In Cyprus’ 11.000 years of history Ottomans ruled it for only 307
Original-Hall-9832@reddit
It's semi-Arabic. Severely watered down Western version of a country with semi-Arabic touch. Like Turkish food sold in Germany.
psychopsacht@reddit
I understand this perspective. It gave me Lebanon with a sense of financial security, a Greekish language, and Christian majority.
konschrys@reddit
What do you mean by Greekish?
konschrys@reddit
Arabic? Other than the endangered language spoke by the Maronites of Kormakitis, there is nothing Arabic about Cyprus. The Arabs briefly controlled the island in the Middle Ages. That’s all.
Original-Hall-9832@reddit
Sorry to break it to you, but that's how Cyprus looks to the polished Western countries like Netherlands or Norway. Turkish kebab sold in middle of Vienna. 😂
konschrys@reddit
Huh?
EnoughPersonality859@reddit
if Cyprus is Balkan so Lebanon is Balkan too.
ShqiptarInMukhmas@reddit
Hell ya greater Albania gets Lebanon too
illusinative@reddit
I want ancient albanian paganism to rule the world
merdeauxfraises@reddit
Not kidding, would you have a source in english for ancient Albanian folklore and paganism? I love this kind of stuff.
illusinative@reddit
Not that I know of, unfortunately. I only have basic Wikipedia level knowledge.
merdeauxfraises@reddit
No worries, thanks!
Dazzling-Session-181@reddit
Damn it, guys... You're growing too fast. Greater Bulgaria cannot keep up with such a pace.
triumfi@reddit
😂😂
Silly_Tension6792@reddit
Cyprus is 100% Greek in spirit.
stayinthebubbel@reddit
Brittish (non turkish side)
Reditor-at-Large@reddit
Cyprus is as close to Greece as it gets culturally. Same religion, they speak a lovely variation of Greek that's super musical, but Greek nonetheless. And they have almost identical customs
HYBRIDLqTHEORY@reddit
Balkan. You can't deny it lol
Marshall_BraveStar@reddit
Cyprus is Greece = part of the civilised West
Alarming-Coast2364@reddit
I’d say the East is more civilized. As proven.
Ok-Silver2334@reddit
Cypriots be like Balkan starter pack: 1.start smoking & drinking at 14 2.Conflict and fight each other 3.“yeah we were under Ottomans… don’t like Turkey “ 4.Corruption I think we fill the Balkan criteria The only difference is geography
Mucklord1453@reddit
Greece itself is not “Balkan” , so Cyprus surely cannot be
low-sikeliot-9062@reddit
Cyprus is an extention of Greece. So whatever Greece is
Le_Fish_In_Lava@reddit
its cyprus
Dazzling-Session-181@reddit
Oh, look - a Turk!
Le_Fish_In_Lava@reddit
WHER😨!!!
Ill_Rest4122@reddit
It is Cypriot. Just.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
it's Turkic.
Double-Aide-6711@reddit
Who threatened you to force you to write this?
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
lol.
I have a "strict" (but realistic) definition of what Greek is.
history shows - it isn't. Greek.
similarly,
I DON'T consider Middle East "diaspora" (Lebanon, Syria, Egypt) Greek.
the exception may be (depending on the case) Ukraine, Russia.
Yavannia@reddit
According to who? You?
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
yes, obviously.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
yes.
Double-Aide-6711@reddit
Your realistic point of view shows that it is biased to consider Greek identity as solely European.
It should not be forgotten that Cyprus has an ancient Greek presence, originating from Minoan Crete and especially Mycenaean Greece.
At the same time, it also has Levantine roots, which makes Cyprus a Greco-Levantine land, and it is therefore truly absurd and biased to consider it turcique.
SOHONEYSAME@reddit
well, yes.
Greece is OG Europe.
(the rest r not even close, lol).
that said, exception applies for Ukraine/Russia, only. (NOT Italy, for instance).
thatMrGecko@reddit
I feel like this guy has two accounts, one says Greece and one says Turkey, and he's just stirring shit up in here. he just fucked up and logged in with wrong account before he left this comment.
this is my tiny conspiracy theory for the week.
Dazzling-Session-181@reddit
Balkan/Mediterranean. Not much in common with the Levant and the Middle East/West Asia. Now half of the island is occupied by Turkey, who settled there many Turkish people from the mainland, but I do not count them in this and also Turks are more Balkan/Mediterranean anyway.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Middle East.
No_Calligrapher1190@reddit
It's more European and Mediterranean.
fortisqp@reddit
There is no such thing as Balkan, thats something invented from the gay european burocrats who are using something from the ottoman rule to identifie us as balkan mentality.
OldDust7955@reddit
Mediterranean climate with Middle East behaviours(personality)
Queen_DH@reddit
No they don't. Balkans have a very slavic culture (except Albanians) and I don't feel like Greeks have that at all. Maybe hospitality but that is the case in a lot of countries.
Medium_Bike_9954@reddit
It's flag of Turkish Republic of Cyprus.
This state was established with a peace operation to stop the greek state that was massacring Turks on the island of cyprus.
rogo01_@reddit
Technically, Cyprus is in Africa.
bored-and-asleep@reddit
It isnt that west actually it is considered in levant.
Immediate-Rabbit810@reddit
culturally and the way they look, yes. but they are technically geographically classified as west Asian
konschrys@reddit
No. Technically it’s in Asia.
ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit
Wtf😂😂
Immediate-Rabbit810@reddit
west Asian
Efficient_Resource15@reddit
More levantine in the sense that levant or part of is in the eastern mediterranean, but it's more like southern italy and the other greek islands than syria still. But yes, if compared to bosnia or serbia it is more levantine in elements
Kenye_Kratz@reddit
It's Greek 🤷
Substratas@reddit (OP)
Chile, what is going on?!?! What did I do? 🫢
Prestigious_Dog_9269@reddit
fun fact: This photograph was taken in 2002 by a French researcher from the top of the Giza Pyramid. It won awards in 56 countries.
plavonja@reddit
Where's the map from?
dwartbg9@reddit
https://www.dreamstime.com/antartis-more-popular-photos
It's just a specific 3D rendering of that region.
Aromatic_Dot_9536@reddit
But greeks are in the balkan
legendarymember@reddit
Its spiritually turkish