Weird overlap: Could viral induced dysfunction of micro/nanoplastic clearance be a causitive factor in Long Covid?
Posted by PermiePagan@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 17 comments
This is an excerpt from my substack, pinned to my profile.
I have been living with "long covid" whether you want to believe it or not. It's not just a psychosomatic disease, it's not just all in my head. I know, because I've altered my mental states quite a bit these last few years, and just getting high or drunk hasn't been enough to suddenly fix my body.
What I am confident saying is that this is a multi-layer disease, where damage to the cells leads to dysfunction of tissues, which leads to problems with the nervous system, with organs, and with digestion. I've gone through almost every supplement regimine, diet, biohack and herbal treatment, done a lot of therapy, spiritual work, somatic movements, graded exercise, deconditioning therapy, I've tried most of it.
And while last year in the spring-summer I got a lot better, eventually I crashed back when I took the supplements away. I've been bringing them back in strategically, using how I feel and what I know about body systems to figure out what the "bare minimum" I need in order to stay healthy is. It's been 6 months, but for the last 6-weeks I've been on a steady recovery path, so I think I'm close. I know the basics to deal with at least me, and my wife's, version of "long covid".
And then, I ran across a random comment about how nanoplastics harm the tubulin inside cells. I’ve been fascinated by tubulin and how our cellular skeleton works, so I read up more about it.
Specifically, nanoplastics are able to enter our individual cells and cause all sorts of damage:
- Muscle cells: nanoplastic uptake alters cytoskeleton, induces senescence, mitochondrial damage.
- Neurons: Microtubule disruption enhances neuroinflammation, cell death.
- Hepatocytes: Larger microplastics worsen oxidative stress, cytoskeletal harm.
And I noticed a pattern, this is a lot of the damage we seem to be seeing in Long Covid.
So, I looked at how we treat microplastics and nanoplastics using conventional medicine, alternative medicine, and diet:
- Soluble and insoluble fiber
- Cruciferous vegetables
- Kimchi, specifically with the CBA3656 strain
- Polyphenol-rich foods
- Glutathione or N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC)
- Omega-3 Fatty Acids
- Milk Thistle
- Cilantro, Chlorella, Celery
- Dandelion Root
- Acupuncture
- TCM Herbs (Coptis. Forsythia) to “clear heat”
- Lymphatic movement, gua sha, massage, slow dance
- Water filtration, no heating food in plastic containers
- Sweating: sauna, hot showers, exercise if tolerated
I realised, this is basically two-thirds of what my “bare minimum protocol” is shaping up to look like. In reading up on clearing micro/nanoplastics, I saw most of my long covid recovery list appear. Make sure the diet is low-histamine, add in some anti-histamines as needed, clean water and electrolytes, minerals, methyl b-vitamins, some mitochondrial supplements, and low-doses of some polyphenol-rich cannabis, and that’s it.
What I’ve found through elimination testing to heal my “long covid” also appears to match the effective treatment of nanoplastic overwhelm really closely. This is still a correlation, not a causation. But I think it’s a really interesting idea, and might explain why the specific “viral cause” of things like mitochondrial damage are still unclear.
We know that Covid can attack and enter nearly any cell in the body, and we know it causes vascular inflammation and damage. What if Covid damages the machinery responsible for collecting and clearing micro/nanoplastics and they build up over time? This might explain the 6-12 week post-infection onset of long covid symptoms, it takes a while for the nanoplastics to build up. The damage was done, the symptoms come later.
As of yet, there appear to be no human studies on the amount of nanoplastics in the body before and after Covid infection, and there are no studies on the amount of nanoplastics in long covid sufferers. There is a study showing inhaled microplastics given to mice with covid infection both dysregulates the immune system, and the infection slows their ability to clear microplastics.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11128561/
If this is true, the implications for future nanoplastic health concerns are quite concerning.
- It could explain the sudden rise in disability rates. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU01074597
- It could explain the rise in cancers, strokes, heart attacks, diabetes, and even childhood dementia. https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/whats-behind-alarming-rise-old-203152947.html
- It could explain why everyone is getting so polarized, brain damage like this is linked to more insular, tribal behaviour. A similar thing happened in the late 1920’s, tuberculosis, influenza, and smallpox wiped through the population and gave rise to fascism. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35080961/
- It could also explain why the kidneys, liver, pancreas, and lymphatic systems are such a mess, if your body is clearing micro/nanoplastics all the time. https://www.helixbiotech.com/post/how-are-lipid-nanoparticles-cleared-from-the-body
And it may be the reason why scientists are having such a damn hard time looking for the specific viral cause of a lot of this damage. It might not just be viral particles causing the damage, but further consequences of modern life building on viral damage.
- At the population-level, repeated Covid infections will likely make this worse.
- This damage to our cells and cytoskeleton might also be happening to our gut microbiome, kicking off bad shifts into an unhealthy gut profile.
- If microparticles are the problem, it's not just plastics, this makes wildefire smoke, soil erosion, higher particle load from mold blooms in the spring, etc. all potential dangers.
- Ironically, some mask types may make this worse, but without multiple layers of ventilation, filtration, uv sterilization, etc. they are likely worth it. Invest in the best masks you can.
Straight-Balance830@reddit
I remember making a comment on this sub and suggesting Long Covid/ME/CFS about why so many people have brain fog lately and one of the other comments also mentioned microplastics in the brain. So as a patient with ME/CFS for over a decade, this is a really interesting post and might be onto something. The implications are already frightening as it is, with potentially hundreds of millions of people affected by this without proper diagnosis, treatment, or support. If nanoplastics do significantly contribute to this illness, could the number be far higher?
PermiePagan@reddit (OP)
Yup, and for the folks getting chronic illness before Covid hit, it may have been other particles they became overwhelmed with: smoke, BPAs, lead, etc.
But it's wild seeing all the brain fog clearly on display, but because of the brain fog no one with brain fog realizes they have it. Meanwhile I totally admit my brain fog got bad, and I got it back sometimes, but it's still bad if I'm not totally healthy. Which is hard to maintain.
RedditismycovidMD@reddit
Not sure why this is getting downvoted. Brain damage from infection by SARS Cov2 virus (direct or via the inflammatory process) is well documented in multiple peer reviewed medical journals. The areas most affected are the same ones responsible for judgment and critical thinking skills. So this makes perfect sense.
PermiePagan@reddit (OP)
Honestly, at this point my leading ide is it's being downvoted because part of that brain damage from covid creates a need to deny covid. It's like that parasite that gets into the water from panther droppings, infects a chimpanzee, and causes the chimp to seek out a panther as a "friend" and gets eaten.
Covid damage is making it so people do not notice the covid damage, and keep letting themsevles get infected as a result.
No-Papaya-9289@reddit
Or, it could just be Covid, which was not just a simple respiratory disease as many people thought. It was a complex virus that had effects on all parts of the body.
PermiePagan@reddit (OP)
I'm confused by this comment, what do you mean it's "just" Covid?
The Covid virus infects the body and causes damage, viral persistence seems less likely every month, so the other option is it's caused some sort of permanent damage. I am suggesting one of the pathways of that damage.
only5pence@reddit
What evidence have you read that showed viral persistence is less likely? I've been seeing that proteins are being pushed into the blood stream from reservoirs of viral particles in the gut/enteric nervous system and organs.
Absent from your analysis is a look at immune hypersensitivity and how covid has exploded cases of mast cell dysfunction. Often these cases were primary but not recognized by health care providers due to incompetence and the age of the MCAS Dx. POTS patients, for instance, are Dx'd psychosomatic half the time. EDS is similarly thought to be underdiagnosed.
Even in serious cases, before the diagnosis of MCAS and treatment plans, many on public health options were disregarded entirely (I was one of them, despite ongoing pediatric care w/ immunologists flagging my mast cell function).
I think plastic is a massive amplifier of the neuro-immune inflammation we see in triad patients or those with long-covid, but I don't think it's as central as you think.
PermiePagan@reddit (OP)
These are all good questions, thank you for engaging with this. I have developed a model of this disease based on a scientific understanding of the body (B.Sc. Niology), all the research I've been able to read, and the results of self-testing to see how I can improve. Further, there is another model out there that is being developed by dozens of people working collaboratively, and it's saying the same thing, just with more detail. Using these models has led me to a personal protocol that is keeping me functional more and more. I
Viral persistence: I've worked hard on supplements to deal with viruses, the lysine and immune modulators. I think they might be needed at some point, but I've healed enough now that it's not longer an issue. I don't "need" antivirals to stay healthy, so my personal experience is that viral persistence is not one of my remaining issues.
Immune hypersensitivity and genetic changes: correct, I am not well versed in recent immune and genetic issues when it comes to long covid, I know biochemistry, anatomy, systems biology, and how alternative medicine and diet fits in. I don't speak about these because I do not know them. But, I know tubulin and mitochondria, and I'm seeing evidence of nanoplastic or other nanotoxins not clearing properly. Would love to have an analysis of this from an IMM or GEN perspective.
My wife has hEDS, and we both still deal with ongoing POTS and MCAS. If our kidneys get damaged by nanooplastics and they cannot filter and reabsorbe salts correctly, that could be partially causitive of POTS. If nanooplastics are getting into our mast cells, that could be triggering MCAS. If nanoplastics are affecting collagen, that could be making the EDS worse.
Again, I am not denying that Covid is the causative agent, in fact I am affirming it. What I am doing is claming that "Covid appears to damage the system that clears nanoplastics from our body, those are building up, and that could be a significant a part of long covid damage."
Could this be Covid causing immune changes, and now the body doesn't clear nanoparticles? Yup.
Could this be Covid causing changes to epigenetics, leading to less ability to clear nanoparticles? Yup.
There is also a lot of evidence for compromised ALDH, especially our inability to process alcohol aka the "immediately hungover" effect. As well, elevated hepcidin blocks the absorption and transport of several essential metals which creates a "resource shortage" in the cells. So if we're short on those minerals, then we can't use them to clear toxins.
In effect, our cells are trapped behind inflammation and it's leading to resource shortages internally. Those shortages lead to lower metabilote & toxin clearance, and the cells get sick. And then most of the things that are keeping me functional while I still have long covid, are all things that are used to clear "nanotoxins".
So again, it is very much my personal experience. And it also aligns with some other existing models of this disease.
Dapper_Succotash9826@reddit
Have you tried nicotine + NAC + bromelain? Look into this interesting combination that is rumored to remove the spike protein
PermiePagan@reddit (OP)
Yup, did that last year and got consistently better for 6 months. Then I've been taking away supplements to see which ones are key, while my wife stays of full supplements.
NAC, Bromelain, and Natto/Lumbrokinases were really good at dealing with fibrinogen and/or spike protein. But over the long term out of that bunch, I've only needed the NAC in order to maintain my health.
Cultural-Answer-321@reddit
No.
Long covid is caused by... covid.
PermiePagan@reddit (OP)
Correct, the Covid virus causes damage to the systems of the body that clear toxins and micro/nano-particles, those build up, and then we see long covid develop 6-12 weeks after infection.
It'd be great if y'all read the post and not just the headline.
daviddjg0033@reddit
If that is true then it adds to other known effects of post-viral syndromes including influenza. How do you ensure the safety of supplements consumed? FDA does not regulate them and I recall a sampling of Duane Reed, CVS and Walgreens finding strange things in the aisle that takes up as much space as makeup in the drive-through pharmacies. Cereal is fortified with B vitamins and iron - enough that if you crush cereal up and put a magnet you see it. I would not take vitamins with no regulation and no accountability of where it even comes from.
Aside from that, plastic gets into your body through your mouth, eyes and I would not be surprised if its in the water that goes up your whatever from a bidet. Chewing gum. Clothes. Shoes. Living near a road.
Its almost impossible- I drink filtered tap water but the ones you suspect least like bottled beer because of the cap.
Take off shoes at house. Clean filters and wear a cloth between masks for comfort plus that.
I asked doctors that found elevated levels in plaques and nobody knows how to rid yourself of plastic - its far easier to avoid - and predicted a snake oil salesman will fill the void.
PermiePagan@reddit (OP)
How do you ensure the safety of your water, air, etc? By doing our best, and accepting some uncertainty.
kitkats124@reddit
Psychosomatic doesn’t mean something is “just all in your head,” as if it were imagined or not real FYI.
Less_Subtle_Approach@reddit
Without a control group and a pathology lab, none of us can offer much in the way of insight. It would be nice to have a second planet to study the impacts of flooding the water supply with plastics, PFAS, industrial herbicides and pesticides, etc. and how they interact with novel pathogens in a rapidly warming world. Unfortunately most of that science will have to be done by archeologists wondering how the large hominids drove themselves extinct.
We can say that systemic organ damage, however you acquire it, mostly takes time to heal. Sometimes many years. A wide variety of 'treatments' out there are indistinguishable in efficacy from simply resting and waiting.
PermiePagan@reddit (OP)
> A wide variety of 'treatments' out there are indistinguishable in efficacy from simply resting and waiting.
That's bullshit, and cope.