Put the homeless (800,000 people) into investment held empty properties (1.3 million homes)
Posted by Oops-Torture@reddit | CrazyIdeas | View on Reddit | 234 comments
hkwpie42@reddit
Great, now what happens when I want to rent somewhere else and there’s no place available because you shoved a homeless person in all of the available housing supply?
mysticblanket@reddit
As a homeless person fuck these comments. Sometimes life doesn't go the way you want. I went to college for mechatronics. One day y'all will understand life is hard
TallahasseWaffleHous@reddit
According to the stats, for every homeless person in the US, there are 17 empty houses. Why can't we make that work for citizens benefit somehow?
Strange-Term-4168@reddit
How? You just force the owner to let a homeless person live there for free while they vandalize it, rip out copper pipes for women, turn it into a trap house and pimp out prostitutes in the rooms?
TallahasseWaffleHous@reddit
Start with a better understanding of the homeless.
Over half HAVE a job. A majority dont have a criminal record. They are more likely to be the victim of crime.
On average, a minimum wage worker would have to work 86 hours a week to be able to afford a one bedroom apartment.
A vast majority of empty houses are owned by banks and investment firms, not individuals.
jmnugent@reddit
The problem is not necessarily "which percentage can be trusted or not?".. the problem is how do you accurately predict this. (IE - it only takes a small percentage of misbehaviors to ruin a good thing. I call this the "who shit in the public pool problem". If you have a neighborhood pool that 100 people have access to,. it only takes 1 of them to leave a floating snickers bar to ruin the entire pool for everyone). And if you can't easily predict that small percentage.. you have to take precautionary measures against all 100 of them.. even if 99 of them would never do that).
For any effective homeless-resolution program to work,.. it would need (at a minimum) to:
Correctly identify the person
document their situation (place of origin, any nearby family, job or skill history, criminal history, health status, any mental health issues or drug or alcohol issues)
Then you'd need to take all that unique individualized nifomrtion,. and use it (w/ the full cooperation and participation of the person).. to form a long term "battle plan" to help stabilize and build their life back up out of homelessness.
This is the hard part of pulling someone out of homelessness. There is no 1 easy or universal fix that applies to everyone. Each person has a unique individualized history and set of conditions and you have to work within those parameters to fix and realign their path forward to be more positive and productive.
TallahasseWaffleHous@reddit
Your program would be a great start.
Just because one person abuses the system, isn't a reason to abandon the attempts at a system. You identify the abuser and update the system to make it better.
There are many other ways to make a difference...if those investment firms were forced to sale/rent some of those empty homes at actual market value, many more people could afford a home.
First-time home buyers programs have been tried, and shown to be very effective at helping more people be able to buy a home.
jmnugent@reddit
Oh for sure. We need better support systems at the bottom to prevent people from falling into homelessness in the first place.
Unfortunately this is where you start to run into "soft squishy human problems".
In the homeless-demographic,. there's a lot of people who (for legitimate reasons or not).. do not "trust the system". So the big obstacle you have to overcome there is:.. How do you get those people to change their minds and return to "believing in the system". If they've intentionally "opted out of society".. how do you get them to rejoin society. (and how do you do it in a way where you're not over-wasting resources on them ?
The same problem exists if we were to massively improve support systems at the bottom (to try to prevent people from falling below the poverty line).. how do you do that fairly and in a way that still incentivizes hard work.
You see that a lot in the responses where people say things like "If you give everything freely to homeless people.. why should I continue to work my knuckles to the bone in my minimum wage job. why shouldn't I just "drop out" and go be homeless, where I can get everything for free?
that kind of "jealously complex" or "perceived unfairness".. is the harder problem to fix.
That whole question of:.. "How do we fairly measure whether an individual is "contributing to society" ?.. is not an easy one to answer, because so much of it is contextual and subjective.
What if a homeless person is a military veteran and served 4 tours in the Middle East.. have they "paid their debt to society ?".. or do they still have to contribute ?
What if someone is disabled or has some other limitation,. where doing a normal 9 to 5 job is really out of the question ?.. What job or contribution do we align them with,.. so it seems like they are giving a "fair contribution" ?
There's all sorts of subtle, malleable, subjective sort of situations there that are not easy to untangle.
TallahasseWaffleHous@reddit
And a lot of people only hear from the rich right-wing propaganda about the poor, about "facts" and use any excuse like "it might be hard" to do absolutely nothing about the increasing situation in inequality. In fact, many people think sabotaging the systems that have clearly shown to work, is what they want. Until these people actually start feeling pain themselves, they won't even try to understand.
mysticblanket@reddit
Critical thinking? Reddit doesn't like that
Vybo@reddit
Because private property?
Whats the difference between an empty private house being offered to a homeless person and putting a homeless person to a random house where one room is unused?
Who's to say who goes where and why?
I'm not even from the US and I see how wrong this is.
littlebluedude111@reddit
What a brain dead take 😆 you gotta be taking the piss
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CptPimpslap@reddit
Thoughtful reply. You must have been on the debate team.
Oops-Torture@reddit (OP)
What a disgusting metric.
Who hates who in this country exactly? Real estate barons like Compass and Coldwell sit on more “value” property than there is money to pay for them.
Outside_Ice3252@reddit
homeless people think about two things
drugs
sex
they are zombies.
xrelaht@reddit
Most of those empty houses are in places no one wants to live anymore. Dead mining towns, etc.
mylanscott@reddit
There are significantly more empty apartments and homes in my city of Los Angeles than there are people experiencing homelessness. Many of them are luxury apartments that are not being rented out until rental prices trend upwards again. This is the case in many cities across the country, it’s not just places “no one wants to live” in
https://www.acceinstitute.org/thevacancyreport
littlebluedude111@reddit
Is that conjecture?
xrelaht@reddit
No
Tankieforever@reddit
A lot of the houses that are counted in that are unlivable. A house with a caved in ceiling, no plumbing, and an electrical system that would go up in flames if you plugged in a toaster still counts as an empty house.
jcostello50@reddit
For the land part of the equation: r/georgism
freecodeio@reddit
yeah people think that homeless people have no feelings, the heavy weight you carry when you raise your hand to beg for change is real
never been a homeless man but how people treat homelessness is pathetic
Low_Monitor_960@reddit
because a large most visible part of the homeless community are drug addict degenerates who will try to stick you with a hiv needle if you look at them the wrong way. not a surprise people don't like that.
Oops-Torture@reddit (OP)
Imagine having to commit felonies by lying about your address and contact info on job applications as a homeless person.
Orangeshowergal@reddit
What is your story, then?
mysticblanket@reddit
Transgender, can hardly get a job. Gallbladder removal surgery then found cancer. Shitty car I live in breaks down all the time. Insurance is being taken because of UHC contracts not being filled. Family attempted to IVC me.
Im only 23 :/ you can imagine what I'm thinking about.
Long_Associate_4511@reddit
What's IVC?
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mysticblanket@reddit
r/showerorange
Icelock@reddit
Also, as a homeless person, give me a million-dollar home I can't and won't maintain!
mysticblanket@reddit
That's rude. Have some empathy. Just because I'm homeless doesn't mean I'm a slob. I take showers every day at the gym. I hate being nasty, it's the worst part of being homeless. I would do anything to have a place and actual job again. I cry every night and day. I walk into places asking for work. I try very fucking hard.
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Worth_Eye6512@reddit
Do you have a mechatronics degree
NavXIII@reddit
Damn bro, I went to university for mechatronics too. Shit was fucked and I can't find a job rn.
Uranium-Sandwich657@reddit
I was also homeless for a short while. It took me 5 months after moving to a new town to find a job, and by then I had completed 1 semester and wasn't able to pay the bill.
Trevor519@reddit
Are you high?
These people will destroy the property and actively make the area worse. Happens all the time in my city. Every time specialized housing for homeless goes up and they live there it's increased thefts fires and assaults. It becomes a focal point for other homes to gather around and shoot up.
Oops-Torture@reddit (OP)
Law enforcement problem. People could do better aiding the prevention of drug trafficking if they chose to.
Trevor519@reddit
No it's a behavioral issue from the people.
Also the investment properties are owned by??????
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Trevor519@reddit
I say this from living in a city that routinely has YouTube videos made about how fucked the city is. I live in Ontario Canada and I will have people try and guess the city And they will all be right.
AbjectAssociation850@reddit
So steal from people who work to be able to purchase their homes and give it to randos who messed up their lives?
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Fat_Bearded_Tax_Man@reddit
I spent 4 years homeless. Its really hard to fill out a job application when you have to leave the address blank.
Strange-Term-4168@reddit
Why would no friends or family let you use their address?
BestSong3974@reddit
even better make something up why would they check
liproqq@reddit
To mail you the check
Strange-Term-4168@reddit
What is it 1980? Direct deposit exists.
Fat_Bearded_Tax_Man@reddit
The probably would have, but ai was too embarrassed to bring it up
faceisamapoftheworld@reddit
I have a friend who would put down the license plate of his car.
xinorez1@reddit
Just out of curiosity how well did that work?
These days there are services you can sign up for that will give you a non po box local address for mail, although these tend to be flagged as commercial mail receiving agencies.
Some are in mixed used residential apartments and these show up as residential, and apparently there are free tools that can check if a particular address is flagged as commercial instead, like "smarty".
I've never used these services so I'm just relaying what Gemini ai is telling me. Apparently the local mail boxes cost 10 dollars a month, which is quite reasonable
Katatonia13@reddit
I don’t mean to be rude. I’m technically homeless at the moment, but I have addresses I can use. It’s just not technically my home. I’ve lived in four different states in the last month.
freddbare@reddit
Right I've never used/heard that ridiculous excuse.
Fat_Bearded_Tax_Man@reddit
Great for you. It was a huge issue for me from 95 to 99.
freddbare@reddit
I just used whatever address I could find.. I wasn't about to get mail from an employer...
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mb194dc@reddit
Yes comrade excellent idea.
Martbern@reddit
Most of them are homeless because of their life choices. You choose to be homeless.
No-Sail-6510@reddit
60% of homeless people have a job
Martbern@reddit
Good for them I guess? Maybe if they didn't make financially debilitating decisions they'd be off the streets
No-Sail-6510@reddit
Like giving half your money to a landlord? Why are we letting them charge first last and security deposit?
Maxpowrsss@reddit
This is a crazy idea. If housing becomes free, wouldn’t everyone who is renting just stop paying rent?
No-Sail-6510@reddit
Good
Competitive_Arm5954@reddit
For housing to become free the state would have to take away everyone's homes and then dole them out how they see fit.
Maxpowrsss@reddit
It does seem problematic to me as well :)
Real-Yogurtcloset844@reddit
Can we start with some property that you own? That would be better than robbing Grampa-Landlords everywhere.
No-Sail-6510@reddit
Why do t they just get a job?
Oops-Torture@reddit (OP)
I’m doing the paperwork for the 650 billion dollar loan as we speak.
cantbelieveyoumademe@reddit
The problem with a lot of homeless people isn't necessarily that they don't have a home.
There's mental illness, unemployment, addictions, etc.
No-Sail-6510@reddit
60% of homeless people have a job
Itsapocalypse@reddit
Housing first policies have effectively ended homelessness in Finland. The US could be doing an incredible amount more good with these policies
xena_lawless@reddit
Guaranteeing housing as a human right has had a lot of success in both ending homelessness, and in getting people treatment (possibly as a condition for being housed) since they're a lot easier to find.
NaiveZest@reddit
Those are all compounding problems for sure, but those problems exist in the population of people with appropriate and affordable housing too.
In fact, the research shows that providing affordable housing to the people that need it, and then making support available for the people who need that, reduces the incidence of homelessness, and reduces the overall tax burden.
If cost is the concern, it’s more expensive to ignore the issue.
cantbelieveyoumademe@reddit
I'm not against seizing empty, corporate held, properties, but I am against making it seem like the only problem is lack of housing.
asentientgrape@reddit
Lack of housing is definitionally the problem with homelessness. It's a tautology.
If you give people access to housing, there is nothing that could make them homeless except removing their access to housing.
RobinReborn@reddit
But just about everybody faces this threat, landlords can evict you. If you don't pay your mortgage the bank will take your home.
alelp@reddit
I see you have never meaningfully interacted with a homeless addict.
Energy_Turtle@reddit
Seizing it wouldn't even help. Taking some random homeless person and placing them in a seized property makes no sense. We need more housing. I admit, I am a landlord and there is 1 single policy that I know will make rents fall: open rentals on the market. That's it. All this other stuff states like CA and WA do doesn't work. They have to incentive building, and seizing properties does the exact opposite.
WaitTraditional1670@reddit
it is expensive to ignore the problem. but to indiscriminately put them all in their own homes: that’s like putting a bull in a tea shop
teacher_59@reddit
And all those problems by evil people too lazy to work means they will destroy any free housing they get. This is horrible for the economy because it will destroy over a million housing units and require fumigation and repairing all the damage these people do.
NotAnotherAllNighter@reddit
Housing them would be a start. Even if it doesn’t fix things completely at least they’ll have stable shelter.
CEOofracismandgov2@reddit
Depending on how you cut what exactly homelessness is, up to 50% of the homeless population is composed of former foster care kids.
I feel like people often use the points you made as a cop out as a result.
Frelock_@reddit
Imagine a game of musical chairs where there are 11 chairs but 10 people. Obviously, everyone gets to sit down, even if one of them has to use a walker. If you drop down to 8 chairs, the guy with a walker is probably going to be left standing when the music stops.
Same issue applies to housing. When there's not enough, the first to become homeless are those with drug issues, mental health issues, etc. So those are the homeless people easiest to see. When there's enough to go around, pretty much everyone can find a place to stay.
Strange-Term-4168@reddit
No it doesn’t at all lmao. You can have a bunch of people living in one house. People look for roommates all the time.
A_Rolling_Baneling@reddit
You realize it’s pretty much impossible to secure a job when you don’t have a home right? And when you don’t have a job, it’s also essentially impossible to access care?
Housing the homeless would be a massive step in the right direction. It’s the fundamental issue they face
cantbelieveyoumademe@reddit
I'm not against seizing empty, corporate held, properties, but I am against making it seem like the only problem is lack of housing.
WaitTraditional1670@reddit
exactly. Some of these people act like housing was the only thing holding these people back
freecodeio@reddit
lmao but it is the biggest factor though, let's take you for example, an employed redditor perfectly capable of holding a job
take the house away tomorrow and you'll be unemployed very very quickly and then never considered by any company again
Strange-Term-4168@reddit
Not at all. There are so many friends and family members I could stay with. Theres a reason no one from their personal life wants to help them anymore. Parents, siblings, grandparents, cousins, aunts/uncles, close friends, no one will let you sleep on their couch?
Leawer78@reddit
[Citations needed]
Fluid-Tone-9680@reddit
What makes you think that homeless person won't be able to keep a job? If I get homeless, maintaining a job would be my highest priority, even higher than finding new home.
WaitTraditional1670@reddit
it’s not though. Housing isn’t the factor that holds people back. Their are plenty of ways to get a job when you down own or rent a place.
I work at a Title 1 school. 99% of the kids are on the free meal plan. I’ve seen parents register their child mid year because attendance was necessary to get social benefits. She also actively pushed to get all her children registered as “mentally ill” and special ed so they could get more financial benefits. She lived in a home. Home ownership isn’t the problem
littlebluedude111@reddit
You can't really be this dense.
Strange-Term-4168@reddit
Why would no friends or family help you while you find a job? No one will let you sleep on their couch? The issue is these people can’t maintain a home or any steady lifestyle. They’re severe drug addicts.
TheDude-Esquire@reddit
Homelessness is as much, if not more so, a cause of mental illness, than an outcome of it. Even more for substance abuse.
WinterCoffeeBean@reddit
Yes and housed people definitely don’t have ANY of these issues 🙄. (Being a tad sarcastic if unclear)
CB110R@reddit
Plenty of people with homes have these exact same problems.
cantbelieveyoumademe@reddit
Either they have found a way to manage, circumstances have favored them, or they'll become homeless.
Homeless people either couldn't manage, had unfavorable circumstances, or both.
Either way, most of them need more help than just a house.
Bubmack@reddit
Give the homeless more free stuff…it’s working great
No-Sail-6510@reddit
Yeah you’re right. Giving hand outs to the rich is best.
YanicPolitik@reddit
"The less fortunate get all the breaks!"
Oops-Torture@reddit (OP)
Giving the rich people free stuff hasn’t worked out in favor of people either.
slbarr88@reddit
Most of them are homeless by choice and would absolutely destroy any accommodation.
Welcome them into your house if you feel otherwise.
No-Sail-6510@reddit
60% of homeless people have a job.
Oops-Torture@reddit (OP)
This is my only answer to the handful of psychopaths that are losing their minds at the thought of a house being damaged by homeless people:
Re-evaluate your inner monologue. It’s pathetic and gross that you are more concerned about property valuations than the life of another American. I don’t care if the houses these poor, fucked up people occupy get destroyed because watching a house burn down is an emotionless experience. But watching a person die and wither away in front of you is.
treesarealive777@reddit
I know you know this, but anyone who cares about investment properties more than people demonstrates the lack of value the market meaningfully has.
These people dont care about these properties whatsoever, they jsut want to hold on to the narrative that nothing else matters except on an economy that is propped up by people who literally sexually traffic minors.
These people think money is real, and life isnt.
I just noticed you getting downvoted. But yes, it is upsetting that people have zero actual care for anything, and act like that lack is the basis of value.
KarsaOrlong1@reddit
Person doesn’t have a house, is on drugs Acknowledge that giving many of said people houses will result in house being destroyed Still can’t make the connection that this is the reason they don’t have a house
MrMathamagician@reddit
It’s not a monologue it’s something that has been tried and absolutely does not work without significant wrap around services. Your attitude is the worst kind of ignorant, smug, detached and self-righteous BS that has created this problem as much as the greed and carelessness.
murrchen@reddit
How many have you taken in?
slbarr88@reddit
So charitable you are with the property & money of others.
Fill your home with the homeless or shut up.
Oops-Torture@reddit (OP)
What a goofy insult. I don’t give half of a flying rats shit about what my father thinks. I’m guessing you’re a little nepo boy though and I can’t attest to how much of your own dads jizz you had to swallow for success in life, but it’s a lot more than I’d be willing to gulp down.
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Senior_Sentence_566@reddit
There are two types of homeless person. The visible ones we can all think of, generally need lots of support as well as a roof over their head.
The second invisible homeless are those who are in temporary accommodation, sleeping on a relative's/friends sofa or in a vehicle. All they generally need is an address from where they can build their life again.
No-Sail-6510@reddit
60% of homeless people have a job.
OmNomSandvich@reddit
and in some cases the first kind is much easier to stabilize when housed - long acting antipsychotic injections, a steady address for a care team to visit on occasion, ability to build mental health through personal hygiene and good rest, etc. can all make a huge difference. It's hard but its not impossible to pull off.
solo_shot1st@reddit
The biggest barrier is consent. You can't force many of these people to accept help, take medication, or stop taking drugs. Many states, offer tons of resources to help treat these issues, but they aren't often utilized by those who need them the most.
explain_that_shit@reddit
When Finland ended homelessness they found that under 20% of homeless wouldn’t consent. So you’ve solved 80% of this, and crisis police and social services have reduced the amount they need to deal with by that much.
Pale-Fondant-8471@reddit
You can force someone who's a danger to themselves or others.
blessthebabes@reddit
I heard that often growing up, but experience causes me disagree. There's not tons of resources (or at least not in every state). I codirected a homeless facility for women for 5 years. The resources are abysmal or nonexistent. It's even worse for those on disability- one of my clients had not had a pillow for over 2 years because with her $813 check and 62$ (that's been lowered this year) in ebt, she had nothing to eat the last week of the month.
Fireproofspider@reddit
Yeah, I think the narrative that there's help, but they just don't want it is just for people to feel good.
BaunerMcPounder@reddit
My dad has said the line “some of them want to be out there” like dude it sounds like they may have a mental impairment or illness. He’s suburbanite, I live in the urban core of my city, I see the people that didn’t make it to the night shelter in time camped outside. THERE ARENT ENOUGH RESOURCES.
freddbare@reddit
As one who has been there, shelters have rules. The ones that "didn't make it on time" prefer to care for themselves than follow said rules.. we don't want you r sources, they come with strings.
BaunerMcPounder@reddit
I hear you, but I’m specifically talking about the shelter being at capacity.
Coltand@reddit
I think it's nuanced, and it does no good to blame homeless people for their situation, because social services in America could be doing much better. At the same time, I don't think the scenario where some refuse help is at all unheard of.
This video is pretty long, but an interesting watch. The linked timestamp leads into an interview with someone who does a fair bit of homeless outreach, and they discuss the issue a bit.
https://youtu.be/bRGrKJofDaw?t=4158&si=Y1JGedD2auCA5XJY
PerryAwesome@reddit
just-world fallacy
StatisticianLow9492@reddit
This is bullshit. The “resources” offered are not suitable and often times extremely dangerous. The reason they opt out of them is it’s safer to be on the streets.
ALittleCuriousSub@reddit
There is on paper a lot of shit, the reality doesn’t always align. The local workforce commission says it helps people with disabilities find work if they are unemployed or under employed. What they mean is they might be able to find you a min wage part time job making less than you are at a place that already barely pays you enough to get by and if you can’t survive on that it’s a you problem and you better not be ungrateful if the person helping you clearly know nothing about anything outside min wage part time work.
suckonthesemamehs@reddit
As a person who works with these communities,it’s often much easier to provide services for people who are street homeless since many of our funding and grants are written that way.
Dakk85@reddit
People tend to think all the first group needs is a roof over their head. Unfortunately the root cause of their homelessness (mental illness, addiction, etc) typically leads to the destruction of the new home without a LOT of support
It’s significantly more complicated than “we have people without homes… we have homes without people… problem solved!”
PM_Your_Wiener_Dog@reddit
That said if they had places that weren't being used it'd be a start
Ok_Support3276@reddit
Destroying a bunch of property doesn’t make much sense.
somecow@reddit
Currently doing both couch and car. Oh well. The real killer is wage vs rent, the disparity needs to go away.
freddbare@reddit
What are the ones that refuse shelter because they would rather care for themselves than be forced to follow basic rules? Cuz that's the most prominent kind everywhere I've lived and in the streets with them was one of those places.
OkMarsupial@reddit
Sure but a lot of these folks, if you gave them "an address" that's far from their former life and/or job prospects, are not going to be able to do much with it. The reason that second group is able to build their life again is that they can find work. Put them in whatever fantasy "investment home" OP is thinking about, they are probably not going to have a lot of options. Hint: investment homes in desirable areas are not vacant (statistically speaking).
BigDaddyDumperSquad@reddit
Alternative title: let homeless people rip all the copper wiring, fixtures, and appliances out of empty residential buildings.
LSF604@reddit
That will be an issue with some. That's not a reason to overlook anyone else
jmnugent@reddit
Sure,. but that then just brings up the problem:.. "How do you identify and effectively separate "those that will cause damage" from "those that won't" ?
One of the big problems in the homeless demographic,. is the "anonymity". A lot of homeless just like to sort of "anonymously float from shelter to shelter" (or city to city or state to state)
because they don't want to actually play by the rules
and they know if they just stay anonymous and float around,. they can get away with whatever they want because the speed of the law and system is not organized of fast enough to keep up with them.
If we really want to solve this problem,. we need to start identifying these people and have some way to track and monitor them. As a taxpayer,. I'd be absolutely 1000% fine paying 3x to 5x to 10x higher taxes to build out really effective and comprehensive homeless services ,. as long as entry through the door required identification (or if you don't have identification, we help you get it)
We have to have accurate data to fix complete problems. That's true in many other areas of society just as it's true in solving the homeless problem. We need to know who these people are and why each one of them (individually) is homeless. Once we identify each individuals unique history and mixture of challenges, we build a custom plan for each person and also hold them accountable along the way. So if for example they are a drug or alcohol addiction and we say "You need to attend 50 alcohol classes".. then there should be some digital way to require and confirm they attended all 50 classes. If they have some medical problem that requires treatment or medications, there should be some digital way to ensure those appointments and medications are being taken. etc etc.
The problem we have right now is we're just throwing money down a black hole with not much to show for it.
a homeless person is lacking clothes or shoes or food etc.. so on Week 1 we give them all new stuff.
you see them again on Week 2.. they've somehow lost the blankets and clothes and backpack etc that we gave them. .. So you give them another set.
you see them on Week 3 .. they've somehow lost all those things again.. so you give them another set of new things
etc etc etc..
Where are all those things going ? and why do we keep circularly paying for stuff that's disappearing without explanation ?
CEOofracismandgov2@reddit
Sure, it's a risk, but in places where they have actually tried more radical programs like this that wasn't really what happened.
And, even if let's say 10% of the homeless population would just steal everything, is that still a net loss to state/federal revenues if it gets the other 90% back on their feet and being productive? I would be very surprised if it comes anywhere near close to the amount that some places spend on homelessness, such as California, with little to no effect on the problem.
teacher_59@reddit
Why lie? As I’m still in here in Seattle at be being that. We spent over $1 million per hotel room because these people did exactly what the person said they would do would you lie and claim they may not be doing. How can you lie and clean? May not be doing it when they be doing it. They’d be doing it so hard and out for so long. So hard and so long
KarsaOrlong1@reddit
Because the truth doesn’t fit with their privilege / disadvantaged / victim worldview, where the homeless have done and would never do anything wrong
Training-Purple-5220@reddit
Properties are destroyed, homeless are homeless again, investors move to countries that didn’t steal for this -crazy- stupid idea, and everyone is worse off.
scoutloner@reddit
How do we get them there? Kidnap them and lock the doors?
KarsaOrlong1@reddit
Tell them there’s copper to be had in the walls
HaphazardFlitBipper@reddit
Who's gonna pay for the damages?
Oops-Torture@reddit (OP)
Fuck that it’s a box for holding people. We don’t even have an answer for who’s gonna buy the fucking things let alone insure and pay for damages on them.
KarsaOrlong1@reddit
It’s a box for holding people. Ok the let’s use old shipping containers then how many people cannot hold? I think about 15 each
crazycatlady331@reddit
I've talked to staff at hotels that have put them up during Covid. Like many groups of people, there was good and bad.
With the bad, some of the rooms were so trashed (wiring stripped) that they could not be rented to another guest without serious renovations.
say592@reddit
Some were also just disgusting. I heard stories of vomit, urine, and feces. Even in some the smell alone just required a ton of extra cleaning.
There are absolutely people who want help and can live a normal life if they can just get it extended to them. There are others that want help but they are too mentally ill to function normally in society. There are also some that don't want any help at all. Housing first is the correct approach, but it has to be accompanied by wrap around services, otherwise most people will continue without permanent housing and without treatment for whatever brought them to that situation.
WaitTraditional1670@reddit
let’s put them in your “box”
NaiveZest@reddit
Do people who don’t have homes take more care or less care of the things they have?
MrMathamagician@reddit
Less
gravity_kills@reddit
That's called depreciation. Property values go both up and down.
Competitive_Arm5954@reddit
Ok. Who pays to fix the damage though?
gravity_kills@reddit
The next buyer fixes whatever they want to fix. OP is obviously just legalizing squatting, right? So prices drop through the floor as it becomes impossible to just sit on a vacant property (are second homes included?) and expect it to hold value. Soon enough the number of people who can't afford to buy is very small because prices are very low.
I don't think they thought it out, and there would be some serious consequences, but the problem would be addressed in a sort of way.
BigDaddyDumperSquad@reddit
It's not going to save anyone money if they need to pay 2x the amount a property is worth just to make it habitable. That's like buying a shit 5k car and putting 10k in to get it running; a terrible financial decision.
gravity_kills@reddit
How would they receive money if you defaulted? They don't get to hold on to the property? OP has just erased the entire real estate market, completely. It might be better that way, possibly. But it absolutely qualifies as a crazy idea.
BigDaddyDumperSquad@reddit
Because they can take and auction the property. Why would they give someone 150k to buy and renovate something when the property value is only 50k after all that? It wouldn't make any financial sense for a bank/CU. Basically, even if it's 50k for a house, you'd need to save the whole 50k. No down payment, no mortgage, no lending. Most people can't save half that amount for a down payment, so they DEFINITELY won't be able to save for the whole thing.
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xinorez1@reddit
Honestly it is a crazy idea unless you did the math and can show that the inevitable losses are outweighed by the gains, which is possible but seems unlikely.
The real estate game is a curious one. Money parked in us real estate provides lending income to banks in the form of mortgages, and they are locked in the us economy until the properties are sold. Yet of course we have a current housing crisis where we aren't creating enough homes to meet demand, and here's the fucky part: if we created more homes, that would screw with real estate values for existing investors and some may even fall into default, losing their investment.
To meet housing demand, after the new deal and prior to Vietnam, the govt subsidized home building which generated a profit of 2-3 percent. At that time housing consumed 13-20 percent of most Americans annual earnings. Then we created a new investment called reits, real estate investment trusts, which promise profit levels of 10 percent or more, and after the unfunded Vietnam war which wasn't paid for by new taxes or rationing unlike Korea or WW2, wherein the us govt had to compete with the us consumer for oil, gas, steel, etc, which caused rapid inflation, a lot of money went into these reits instead of other investments. Public home building was cancelled, and today most Americans spend between 30-40 percent of their annual earnings on housing, with landlords sopping up most of the rewards for creating the modern world, which unfortunately mostly get reinvested into more expensive real estate that paradoxically fights against new building of homes and transportation as that would lower the price of existing real estate through competition.
Nevertheless.
The price of building a single individual rental unit can be as high as 400k per unit.
So I propose a different and differently risky solution, multi level parking structures with ev charging, located near gyms and markets with surveillance, not explicitly marketed towards the homeless.
..
A small EV during covid could cost as little as 3k used and provides ac and enough room for a bed, fridge, etc, and neither your primary vehicle nor your primary home counts against your ability to receive financial assistance (in most states).
An individual parking space will cost about 30-50k per space:
20-30k for the building, 5-10k for the land, 5-10k for level 2 charging, adding up to about:
11M for a 440 space parking structure, just for the structure itself, 5M for the land, 5M to add level 2 charging...
Adding up to about 21M for 440 parking spaces that can sell power at low cost for cooking, cooling, water harvesting, etc
Vs 220M for a public housing complex with 440 units that the renters will feel no attachment to and may vandalize.
So it's less than 1/10th the cost, and the car owners will be attached to their cars but not necessarily the land so they can feel free to move to wherever the best prospects are. Hell with a solar canopy, an EV can be the start of a homestead.
Incidentally you can lease a brand new small EV like a Fiat 500 for about 50 dollars a month (all in, including the 7.5k federal tax credit and the introductory rate of 10 dollars a month), and make it yours for another 10k (including the 4k federal tax credit for used evs which can only be used once every 3 years).
Incidentally also there are services that can give you local residential addresses for mail for jobs at about 10 dollars a month, and there are free services that check if the addresses you can buy are listed as commercial or residential.
A cheap smartphone can be bought for 20 dollars, and cheap cell service starts at 6 dollars a month.
The parking structure suggestion would probably piss off a lot of anti car people, but once you're parked and paying for parking and charging, you can use a small folding bike like a brompton clone to get around town. I mention the brompton specifically because it can convert into a small shopping cart that you can wheel straight into the store.
Ez pz.
Admittedly it's hard to get started if you have absolutely nothing, but if you're willing to get a little creative and work at bettering your own situation, you should be able to pay for a very cheap used car after a month of work, and then after a few more months upgrade to a small EV.
If you can manage to save 50 percent of your minimum wage, which should be calculated based on local rent but if you don't pay for rent, after 2.5 years you will have enough for a down payment on a local 2 bed 2 bath apartment (at least before the Iran war... Haven't recalculated since) and you can rent out one of the rooms to cover most of the mortgage. You will likely need a cosigner if you only have a minimum wage job but nonetheless, with just a minimum wage job and 2.5 years of living in your car, you can have a home to your name.
And that's my crazy idea. Weird that I don't see anyone else sharing similar ideas given that it seems to solve so much for so little additional cost.
Theseus_The_King@reddit
You just solved Canada
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Nathan-Stubblefield@reddit
Sure. Just buy those properties.
Oops-Torture@reddit (OP)
Ok. I need a bank loan for 650 Billion Dollars. To buy the empty investment homes.
Nathan-Stubblefield@reddit
Do you have a few hundred billion in collateral?
inhocfaf@reddit
Yea, the houses themselves.
Wait a minute, this sounds familiar. I think we're on to something...
oli_ramsay@reddit
How's your credit?
XChrisUnknownX@reddit
Eminent domain here we come.
Nathan-Stubblefield@reddit
OK, fair market value. Sounds good.
XChrisUnknownX@reddit
Only way to do it.
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windycityzow@reddit
Here’s a crazy idea: outlaw private equity owning homes and more people will be able to afford housing. We have an asset hoarding problem in the US, its anti-democratic
gated73@reddit
We’re seizing private property now? You’re cool with a stranger with a potential mental issue in your stuff?
qqanyjuan@reddit
And have them destroy everything, genius
Turkpole@reddit
They did that in San Francisco during covid, at great cost, and then the homeless did millions in damage that the taxpayer had to cover
BatmanHimself@reddit
Sorry to break it to you but the homelessness problem is much much deeper than lack of housing
Conscious-Plant-7067@reddit
It sounds decent, until you see that the subsidies will come from taxpayer money and still be given to the major corporations that bought up all the properties in the first place.
Flowbro11@reddit
If this isn’t satire this might be the #1 worst idea I’ve ever heard
onwo@reddit
Is 1.3m the actual amount of homes that are (a) in the area the homeless are, (b) in acceptable condition, (c) not just intermittently available as people transition house to house between ownership or leases?
BoredSara1@reddit
How about instead of homes you give them ways to get back on their feet and ways to improve their current lives by getting jobs and being able to get back into society. I don't wanna sound mean but alot of the homeless don't want to work or be made to take care of themselves because you see alot of them not take food or blankets and things they want money to spend on drugs and alcohol. I'd rather not put them in the homes but provide ways for them to learn to take care of themselves like earlier in their lives
Kauffman67@reddit
80% of the properties would be uninhabitable in 6 months.
Oops-Torture@reddit (OP)
You’re a walking future corpse that’s going to get buried in tree food someday, and this is what concerns you about helping the unhoused?
Loud-Start1394@reddit
Which type of homeless? There are normal homeless who respect property and aren’t crazy. Then there are crazy homeless who smear their own shit on the walls and burn the place down. The latter do not deserve taxpayer funded housing, nor can they be trusted steward it.
Oops-Torture@reddit (OP)
It’s kinda weird to dehumanize the mentally so much that you’d rather see them become prisoners or corpses. There is a person inside the deranged, high lunatic.
Toke-N-Treck@reddit
Meanwhile the outreach people in my city say that less than 50% of the homeless people they contact are even willing to accept housing assistance programs because they'd rather smoke fent on the street than actually improve their life.
Homelessness is a chicken/egg problem in many instances and there is no clear solution. Even forcing them into treatment doesnt work because rehab only actually works on people who WANT to change.
crazycatlady331@reddit
I've been in a situation to (temporarily) employ anyone with a pulse. I've offered jobs to many homeless people.
Only one saw his employment through to contract's end. Everyone else either had ID issues (we couldn't start them without proper ID) or was fired for attendance or misconduct. A lot were fired for drinking while on the clock.
ContributionEasy6513@reddit
Worked for a NGO along time ago who offered free housing in return for doing a program which included giving up alcohol, smoking and drugs. Project completely bombed for that the reasons you mentioned.
Changed my outlook completely that the homeless problem for a large number needs to be treated as a mental illness requiring institutionalisation to solve. That has a huge moral problem.
Once you end up on the street for any length of time it's very hard to get back on your own 2 feet due to the mental and addiction component. While a safe home is required, it will not work in isolation.
Grand_Dust7734@reddit
This is a crazy idea indeed. You will have 1.3 million ruined properties and people with lost investments, and 800,000 homeless people at the end.
Actually way more than 800,000 because if you just have to declare yourself homeless and get a free investment property, lots more people will become homeless. Why work when Redditors will give you better for free?
ShitMcClit@reddit
Why? They will just destroy them. If we are going away homes I thinkni should get one too.
BeastyBaiter@reddit
OP has clearly never actually seen a hobo. They are severely mentally ill and utterly addicted to all the drugs. These people belong in a mental asylum where their worst self destructive tendencies can be controlled and damage to the rest of society minimized.
AmusingUsername12@reddit
Plenty of regular people end up homeless. Not just drug addicts.
Competitive_Arm5954@reddit
Yeah, but the majority are dug addicts.
XChrisUnknownX@reddit
So fuck ‘em, right? Drug addiction isn’t a medical condition you should have compassion for.
manicmonkeys@reddit
There's a big difference a person having compassion, vs a society wasting vast amounts of our finite resources in a manner that accomplishes very little of use to society.
jcostello50@reddit
You might want to look up the definition of "hobo". It doesn't mean a generic homeless person. It means an itinerant worker (who might just have happened to hop on freight trains to get from place to place.)
Fragraham@reddit
Sounds like you haven't either.
freddbare@reddit
Free=valueless. Ever evict someone for abuse of section 8? You are better off with them burning it down...
FuckAllYouLosers@reddit
Congrats you have destroyed 800,000 homes!
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PuzzleheadedNote3@reddit
Why would anyone do that? Things that are free tend to get abused like crazy. Besides the obvious imthe omly way youd suggest this is if youve never lived in a downtown area and actually interacted with homeless people.
biCl0v3r@reddit
this is a great idea! Ill just stop paying rent and saving for a house so I can get one free!
antman_greaseman@reddit
A vast majority of these homeless people would be addicts.
A_Rolling_Baneling@reddit
Statistically untrue
63crabby@reddit
Most research shows that around 1/3 of people who are homeless have problems with alcohol and/or drugs, and around 2/3 of these people have lifetime histories of drug or alcohol use disorders.
SudburySonofabitch@reddit
And then what?
r2k-in-the-vortex@reddit
Right, now who will cover insurance for those properties? When a tenant burns down the house, who makes the owner good?
Competitive_Arm5954@reddit
What is considered an "investment held property"?
Oops-Torture@reddit (OP)
Homes owned for purposes of generating income. Either to be sold/flipped or rented out at profit. Except nobody can afford any of it and the firms owning them are so wealthy they can easily pay the higher taxes/fees of just sitting on impossibly priced homes and drowning out the market.
Competitive_Arm5954@reddit
Ideas like this fall apart when you explain to people we need rental properties for a ton of reasonable reasons.
AlphaGodEJ@reddit
they're gonna smear shit all over the walls
jsaranczak@reddit
But who's going to pay for it?
Oops-Torture@reddit (OP)
Not me apparently my 650 billion dollar loan was denied. I put my penis up for collateral, but they said it only covered 16 million…. I need another 40,625 penises.
jsaranczak@reddit
Haha that's dope, thank you
qwa56@reddit
Here’s an idea why don’t you just give me a damn house instead of worrying about a poor motherfucker can’t afford when he’s homeless.
BetterCranberry7602@reddit
This isn’t crazy it’s just a bad idea
Wejden@reddit
I'm with you. Some are so hell bent on defending this state of things because the moment people stop believing it's a necessity, it crumbles away, and the trained inhumanity shows through.
The homelessness situation is a direct product of the division of community through competitiveness and selfishness. There is no instant solution to it, but every step toward respect and dignity will help in the long run. Taxing the biggest wealth to fund solutions, like free housing and better medical care, is the most moral path, the path of courage to chose virtue over extravagant profits.
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JoeCensored@reddit
It's not really an investment when the homeless strip out all the copper for drug money and burn it down.
kabekew@reddit
What if they don't want to move to a new town or state?
_SovietMudkip_@reddit
I mean for a lot of places "move them somewhere else" is already the solution to homelessness so... at least they'll have a place to go once they get there? 🤷♂️
Of course the ideal solution would involve building more housing wherever there is a need, but there are cities where there is both a high unhoused population and a lot of vacant properties
midaslibrary@reddit
The sentiment will get us far if only we take it seriously enough.
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thisisnotdan@reddit
Or you could just trash/burn/demolish those properties. It'll end the same way, and you won't be exposed to liability claims.