Did anyone else have this experience in Germany?

Posted by sheylalala@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 34 comments

I am from London (30F). I spent about 60% of my time in Germany over the course of 2 years due to my relationship.

This is how I found it:

It seems like Germans missed out on the natural ability to just let loose a bit and enjoy life?
Even tough my partner is actively social and has many friends and gatherings to go to (most of his friends spoke an okay level of English and at least pretended to like me) any event I went to looked good on paper but it felt like a bunch of paid actors trying "have fun" but it didn't feel natural. They just put together some Aperol Spritz and terrible music mostly 90s and even though they are young but it's robotic? And they plan day drinking on a terrace like 5 weeks in advance and you have to be there on time perfectly and not leave too early to offend them.
I honestly have never met a bunch of people that LOVE TO GOSSIP and talk behind people's backs so much. It's like their favourite hobby. And they don't think it's a bad thing it's just fun and accepted as long as they don't find out. Coming from London, we have a lot of banter and talk shit but honestly not like this.
The weirdest thing is technically on paper the young people were doing a lot of things together and I was going out with them (out being, the village wine fest, or like a beer fest or cycling and drinking Aperol), but I still found it soul draining and boring? Not the typical experience of some outsiders being stuck at home with nothing to do but even going out felt abysmal.
My BF's friends would be nice to me and smile and SOMETIMES try to make conversation (it looked like they had to prepare for it by reading some books beforehand and failed mostly) but I never felt like it was natural? Maybe I am wrong and they were genuinely trying but I knew for a fact that no matter how nice they were, they wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire if they had something more important to do.
I would invite girls over to the apartment and give great hospitality, flowing drinks and food and movies/music. They would have a great time. Then they would never return the favour. It's so odd and unlike British culture. If someone wines and dines you several times you can at least reach out to them and invite them for a coffee at yours?
I felt gaslighted because whenever I told my BF London is so much better I don't love it here he would say well what do you do in London that we don't do / have here? There's lots of friends, lots of meet ups and drinks with them, lots of nature and nice views not dirty and we have the cities nearby to go to for shopping... at least here its not dirty and we don't have so much crime and its the same. And I would be lost for words like yes technically that's true but how do you explain to someone that HEART AND SOUL and a underlying joy for an easy life is missing there without then being looked at like you're just rude and pessimistic?

Unfortunately, I have found that it is not for me in the long term. I tried quite a lot to fit in and imagine moving there for my relationship but I was already seeing signs of depression and loneliness even surround by his friends and nice family. I can't explain it. And it's so bad because it means most likely the end of a future together but I don't think it would be a good idea to force myself there.

[-]

Key_Refrigerator234@reddit

I agree with everything you said. I'll give a personal story. I went to pride event in Germany and it was like they were just coping what they saw on TV.

A few other international friends came along (most felt the same too) 6 of us went 4 of us spoke German. Around lunch we mixed in with another group of about 8 Germans.

When I asked the Germans why are they here or what their queer icons were it was like a deer in headlights. Most just said I'm queer or they never dated same sex but were non binary. It took me by surprise because back home pride is and has always been riot/revolution people came and said things like: we're are here to show love or be proud of ourselves. We are here to show it's okay to be gay and be who you are but the Germans just showed up and performed it? It was weird.

I noticed this with a few other things that require self expression in Germany. It all felt performative and insecure? I moved to France and haven't had that twilight 'German' experience since.

[-]

wytnesschancealt@reddit

How does 'We're here because we're queer or part of the LGBTT community' feel more performative than 'omg we're here to fight we want to spread love and show the world that it's oaky to be gay'? Do you even hear yourself speak?

Most people at pride events like to party and get drunk like everyone else and chill with the crowd because they are all part of the same community. They probably just wanted to be honest without feeling like insufferable virtue-signalling weirdos.

[-]

Such-Caterpillar-564@reddit

Omg this is so accurate you described something I couldn’t put into words.

The OP as well! I see this at work too with conversations between themselves. It is so stiff and awkward. I struggled so much when I was in uni but I am very used to it now.

[-]

Key_Refrigerator234@reddit

Honestly opinion. I think Germans are too strict with routine and regimes that they don't allow themselves to just exist. Everything needs a place and everything needs order. It's kind of why they suck at small talk. To them if it doesn't serve an immediate use or have a obvious purpose they don't invent the energy into it.

In the end you the non German have to do the work and crack them open, which sucks because how can you guarantee they will reciprocate or appreciate you as well. I'm not saying there aren't times Germans didn't care or be helpful but that initial contact is so jarring that you question it. Germany was the only country I lived in where I didn't pass a plate just because or recieve something without fearing they expect me to pay them back or do something in return.

Kiwiatx@reddit

I’d say, stop comparing.

Comparison is the thief of joy.

That only applies to people in competition with others. It doesn't work for things like this. It's like telling someone who is clinically depressed to "just be positive!" It doesn't work here.

And the OP has been deleted by a MOD for pointing out that posts of this type just stir up negative sentiment and do not contribute anything positive to the community.

Neither does yours.

I'm not being negative. It's just that quote doesn't work here. It's literally about people looking at others and comparing themselves literally. Example someone's success in comparison to your struggles.

It's a frustrating quote that only comes out as a silence all.

Gods_ShadowMTG@reddit

Appearently people didn't like you otherwise they would have invited you back

sheylalala@reddit (OP)

Well they kept running over at the sign of me inviting them over to spend one on one time with me and told me how much fun they had so I doubt they didn’t like me that much 😆 I think they just didn’t understand the principle of returning favours and putting their hands in their pockets to hosts in return.

Least_Chicken_9561@reddit

cultures ere different, so around the world there are cultures that you'll feel more at home than others, it's your task to find them.

expats-ModTeam@reddit

This post was removed for violating rule #8.

Posts that just exist to talk about why a place sucks or why people left just stir up negative sentiment and rarely contribute anything positive to the community.

Kuhbrot@reddit

It takes a long time for Germans to warm-up with strangers, especially when they are not talking German.

Germans are not very good at smalltalk, because they are honest people. If you are not interesting to talk to, why spend the time talking to you? 🙃

Bodoblock@reddit

Germans are not very good at smalltalk, because they are upfront & honest people. If you are not interesting to talk to, why spend the time talking to you?

Being good at small talk doesn't make you an interesting conversationalists but, in my experience, interesting conversationalists are good at small talk lol

Ok-Test-7634@reddit

hey are upfront & honest people

Let me guess, you're German, right ?

Connect-Estimate-647@reddit

As a German it's interesting to read this, but in my humble opinion this rather tends to be a problem of the people you surrend yourself with and your own expectations instead of pure cultural differences.

Because when I go clubbing, I see a lot of Germans enjoy life. Where I agree is, that Germans tend to organize a lot in advance and are less spontaneous.

Gossiping is definitely not a "German trait". We love to complain about politics, economy, etc., but gossiping is not cultural appreciated.

Also please keep in mind, that many Germans feel insecure in speaking English, especially the older ones or those, who didn't enjoy a higher education. This will make smalltalk akward and mentally draining for them.

And just one thing that comes into my mind and I don't want to be rude or insulting, but the way you describe us and our culture seems very rude/ unhappy. If you emit this kind of unhappyness/ feeling uncomfortable subconcously to the other Germans while hanging around, some might avoid talking with you, as they might sense your negativity and feel increased akwardness.

The good thing is, most Germans are really upfront, so my advise is, if you don't feel well or have proposals for other activities, just tell them. Sometimes people don't share the same impression of certrain situations.

dallyan@reddit

It’s very similar in Switzerland. Girl, don’t marry that man.

Austria too. It’s the DACH region 😅

napalmtree13@reddit

Part of me understands what you’re saying, because I never found “my people” after moving here and social events (when we first moved here and none of my husband’s friends had kids yet) sometimes felt the way you described. Other than the gossiping. For me, I was annoyed that all anyone wanted to talk about was work.

But a population of 80 million can’t be written off with broad strokes. The likely explanation is that it’s a mix of cultural differences and the specific people you were around.

If I had to paint with broad strokes, Germans are generally a coconut culture. Very hard to get to know. They see cultures like ours, where people make acquaintances easily and call them friends, as superficial.

If you plan to stay here I’d suggest joining a club or two. I hear it’s the only way to make friends. My issue is that my city is so small that there’s no club here that would interest me. But if you like sports oh boy you’re going to be swimming in friends soon.

Natural_Jello_6050@reddit

Gossip and talking behind back is universal. You don’t know what they say behind your back in London. Point #6 is also kinda common in western society. In USA it’s not unusual. People are busy and some people don’t have $ or time to invite back.

FrozenOppressor@reddit

You clearly haven't been exposed much to upper class British people

CasaSatoshi@reddit

I've been to over 100 countries an IMHO Germany is by FAR the worst. Horrible place full of horrible people.

Strict-Armadillo-199@reddit

So, I could have written this post 25 years ago when I first moved to Get. I'm guessing you're a younger adult, right?

You're not wrong about identifying the cultural differences between Germany and the UK (or the US in my case, although I lived many years in the UK before moving to Germany). There are regular posts, like every week or so, on this sub and r/germany, saying some version of what you wrote. It plays out slightly differently for people, depending on your age and circumstances, but the main points are there: Germans are more reserved, less demonstrative emotionally, and gave a very different set of rules and structure for socializing and making friends.

Here's the mistake I made when I was younger, and I think you might be doing something similar and that's why some of the comments haven't been very kind here: I took it all personally, and I struggled to accept that this is just how Germans do things, how they've always done them, and there's really no point in comparing it to your culture, except in your own mind, to help you understand where the difficulties lie. You expecting them to act/react like British people would in whatever situation is just the same as them expecting you to just forget every British cultural norm and rule you've internalized since birth and act like a German, just because you live there.

Here's what I learned, after years of being miserable here: everyone is doing the best they can with what they know. Some people are arseholes, and those people you should avoid in any country, but you gotta stop expecting Germans to live up to your expectations. Don't get me wrong, I agree with your general take. And I will probably eventually move on for that reason. I've got a family here and a house, so it's different for me - I can't just go. I wish I'd been wise enough to understand way back when that I wasn't going to change to be more German, and they weren't going to become less German just to please me. I fully support your recognition that you aren't happy, despite your relationship. Trust me, love isn't always enough.

Some people like it here - the reservedness, rigidity, predictability - and that's great. A lot of foreigners don't. It's up to you to find a place where you're happy. Germany ain't it.

HVP2019@reddit

So you think that talking behind people’s back is bad? Yet here you are.

I am Slavic. I have no reason to take Gorman side here but I feel that many of your specific complaints about specific people is unfair.

Socializing in foreign language is hard to conduct as freely and naturally. Learn some German, invite Germans over and see how naturally your socializing will look like.

Tardislass@reddit

This. I’m intermediate Spanish speaker and speaking Spanish at a party to more than one person is still hard and comes out very formal. At least they are making an effort. If they really didn’t like you, Germans wouldn’t even try.

If you are correct in your assumption that those Germans liked OP, then OP’s complaining sounds even more ungrateful.

Charming-Vehicle-304@reddit

I really feel you on point number 2. I am 29F from California and I’ve been living in Germany for years and I’m married to a German.

I speak German well but I definitely still struggle here socially. I miss how outgoing people are where I’m from and the way people interact with one another. Peach vs coconut culture struggles.

I agree with everything except gossiping. You may be used to it in London but the British are some of the biggest snobs and gossips especially behind your back. They will act politely to someone and then have the most catty conversation after they leave. It a very universal experience.

And honestly the non invitations are everywhere. I’m American and unless I make plans I won’t be invited over. Some people are just selfish-has nothing to do with culture. I think you are still going through culture shock. It’s hard to go to a different language and culture. Give yourself time.

General_Will_1072@reddit

Yes, it feels pretentious. I’m also hoping to leave soon

OkDragonfruit7887@reddit

I'm German who lived in London for 16 years. The way Brits party is they get their paycheck, then buy an outfit for their next party, spend £300 in a club and then spend the rest of the month broke. Wait for the next paycheck, rinse and repeat.

I think the gossiping in Germany only happens when you really don't care about someone. In London everybody used to gossip about everyone.

Likewise in London everyone is your mate, even if you just met them. We mean our friendships and don't tell random people we love them. So my advice would be, try open up a bit more and get to know some individuals instead of throwing them all in one basket. We are naturally curious and open, just takes us a while to warm up.

Primary-Angle4008@reddit

I’m a German living in London for the last 20 years and tbh the Germans are a bit more stiff compared to the Brit’s which is funny as the British have that reputation in Germany to some extend

I don’t think either culture is “better” at socializing but it’s done differently. I do miss parts of the German ways as I find it more relaxing lol Yes we do plan things ahead and are maybe not as spontaneous and there is definitely a bit of a language barrier as well even if they speak English but if you do visit that often have you made effort to learn German?

I’m not sure if you always lived in London, your BF might be a bit more rural from your description so I’d dare to say if you would move out of London life would might be more similar? German cities have a huge variety of activities to offer, I’m from Munich originally and while it’s not London it had plenty to do but when lived 30 miles out in the countryside it was as you described

coright@reddit

Anyone feels a bit “off” and kind of performative when they’re forced to speak a foreign language.

I’m 100% sure that if you spoke German, your experience would be very different.

LloydFace@reddit

Part of your post reads a bit self congratulating (“they had a great time” etc) but I agree with the essence. German culture is a pain which is why I left 15 years ago and never looked back. I don’t think we’re bad people but stiff/wooden/all fun needs to follow a strict agenda

Uncle_Richard98@reddit

The only good thing germans (men) have is their sausage inside of their pants (which is very good), otherwise there’s nothing to good to appreciate about them