Huawei, Xiaomi, Anker, and others formed new Power Banks safety standards

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StanGoodspeed618@reddit

Good move. The real gap in power bank safety is thermal runaway testing under load. Most certifications test at 25C ambient, but a power bank in a backpack on a 35C day while fast-charging is a different scenario. Standards need to cover real-world thermal envelopes, not just lab conditions.

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ratk6767@reddit

The existing standards can cover those thermal runaway concerns; however, the issue is with manufacturers. There is no set requirement in the standards that state you need a high ambient, such as 35c, because it's up to the manufacturer to establish their product application and have a safety certification that reflects that.

At best, the product manual would have those temperature ratings; otherwise, consumers will need to ask the manufacturer for a copy of their products safety certification report to confirm the stated ratings and hope they're willing to share.

Source - I work in product safety compliance.

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1RedOne@reddit

I wonder if this will apply to chargers too, I bought a very expensive anker 140w gan charger and it pretty much never charges at that current and it becomes extremely hot while in use

Kind of a bummer that I paid for the nice new tech and it’s not really working

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pdp10@reddit

The market rivalry in chargers largely revolves around size/mass and headline power number, so the big names seem similarly susceptible to undesirable high thermals as are the small brands.

This reviewer tests electrical and thermal performance of USB-C chargers.

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BabySnipes@reddit

“This new safety standard is expected to increase the prices of these products by up to 30%.” Found the reason why these companies wanted to make a new standard.

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KinTharEl@reddit

Nah man. I'm all for it. Good engineering costs money. We should be encouraging higher quality manufacturing and certification in our tests. Remember, we still trust waterproofing in phones only when the manufacturers pay for IP testing and go through the whole certification process.

It should be the same here. Battery safety is a key issue not just for powerbanks, but also phones, laptops, anything with a Lithium based battery. We should be encouraging all of this to be spread across all devices.

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AbhishMuk@reddit

Good engineering costs money.

Sure. But not 30% more.

Lithium ion batteries are a mature market for years now. Some reputable manufacturers (eg Samsung) have no problems making high quality cells, and have been making them well (and price competitive too!) for years if not decades.

Then, where exactly, is this 30% coming from?

I'm not saying good engineering isn't more expensive. But it's not 30% more expensive.

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pdp10@reddit

I tend to agree that correcting manufacturing flaws in lithium-ion batteries does not increase the inherent BOM cost floor by nearly 30%. On the other hand, it must eliminate some potential suppliers, which will tend to drive up BOM costs by some amount, ceteris paribus.

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1731799517@reddit

Sure. But not 30% more.

Lithium ion batteries are a mature market for years now.

ABsolutely 30% more money. If you look at the cheap battery banks they are using the crappiest of crap cells left over from out-of-production shit with the cheapest through together controllers and basically no structural reinforments.

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roflcopter44444@reddit

Its not only about the cells its about the physical packaging for the power bank as well since they have added more mechanical checks that it has to pass.

I can easily see where that 30% is coming from, for larger LiPo packs, that's about the same price difference between buying something with a generic self declaration vs one that is certified to an actual standard like UL1642 even when shopping between the same manufacturer. Most manufactures offer both options, some like home users don't really care whether their battery is certified where as some other customers (for example medical equipment) need certified batteries as the compliance of the stuff they use the batteries in is dependent on them using certified batteries.

I would imagine China will still continue to make uncertified power banks but will just limit those to export markets

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ghenriks@reddit

It’s coming from the elimination of the cheaper batteries that did things no longer allowed

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AbhishMuk@reddit

You do know that Xiaomi or Huawei already use well graded batteries, right?
So this elimination of cheaper materials is basically forcing no-name Temu/Amazon brands to use proper materials.
So... how does a no-name brand changing materials change the cost of a Xiaomi powerbank, again?

I'm a fucking broke guy in a 3rd world country but I will literally send a dollar on PayPal (tbh that's all I can comfortably afford to give) to anyone who's posted on this thread if they've got a background of working in manufacturing lines, and can show how or why this shit's gonna get 30% more expensive.

Absolutely freaking no one in this thread upvoting your comment has ever worked in a line manufacturing plant, let alone large scale consumer electronics manufacturing. If a product got 30% extra, companies would be going bankrupt, not making fucking standards. CEOs would be getting fired. You don't need to increase the cost of a product 30% for safety of this nature.

(And if you think I'm wrong, please give me your PayPal details, along with why I'm wrong. I'm serious in my offer.)

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ghenriks@reddit

If you read the article it does not say Xiaomi or Huawei will go up 30%. It is just a stand alone statement

But the article also mentions some changes that it implies apply to how batteries are currently made so even the big name quality batteries may see some increase

But overall the article is short on actual details allowing for speculation and guesses

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Frexxia@reddit

But it's not 30% more expensive

Based on what exactly?

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AbhishMuk@reddit

There are some really shoddy power banks out there. I can imagine bringing them up to spec be even more than 30% honestly.

Sure, bringing a $5 unbranded no-name Temu powerbank up to spec would cost more than 30%. But imagine if Toyota raised Camry prices by 30% and justifyed it by pointing out how expensive it would be to make a generic golf cart road-legal.

Huawei, Xiaomi, and Anker already build safe products with good cells and standard fault protections.

Retail is usually 3-4x BOM. If an established brand hikes a $60 unit by 30%, they are claiming "safety" added $5-$6 to the raw BOM. Lithium-ion is a mature, highly commoditized market. Adding redundant thermistors or a slightly better BMS IC costs pennies at scale. Even if every cent went to upgraded cells, a $5 BOM bump means the cells just got 50-60% more expensive overnight.

So either:

A. Much like RAM, there's a sudden global shortage of high grade lithium ion batteries that no one knows of because it's being hidden from the media for whatever reasons, or B. Manufacturers just want more money and are using the excuse of "more safety".

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Frexxia@reddit

Huawei, Xiaomi, and Anker already build safe products with good cells and standard fault protections.

And those aren't who the 30% figure relates to. It's specifically non-compliant power banks.

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AbhishMuk@reddit

The comment said:

“This new safety standard is expected to increase the prices of these products by up to 30%.”

It sounds pretty much like the companies making the standards are saying that about their own products. Why would they comment on other people's products? If Mercedes says "We expect cars to cost 30% more", they're not going to be talking about Toyota cars costing more but Mercs costing the same, would they?

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KinTharEl@reddit

We can't really make assumptions on the unit economics without some hard numbers in hand, but even if we ignore that and look at what they've given us at face value, it's clear there are some areas that we can clearly see they are focusing on safety and quality.

The needle penetration test tells us there is some attempt to safeguard against the battery immediately catching fire. Then there's the goal of using only non-recycled material. There's definitely a wastage cost here. There's a lot of the modification, potential retooling, and adjustments in the workflow, etc.

Looking beyond that, there's definitely going to be some kind of authoritative body these companies will end up creating that is likely to be ending up acting as a separate entity to ensure the trustworthiness is at least believable, setting up the legalities and such is also a cost, and then implementing this certification across different product lines is a task.

Then toss in some marketing expenses because why not?

If I'm being liberal about it and saying that all of that amounts to around 20% and the rest of it is pure profit, I'm still fine with it.

I'm not against companies thinking they can charge me more money if they think their product is truly worth it. Prove the quality to me and I'm happy to pay the premium if I and other customers consider it worthy.

If my appetite for the increased price is too high, the market will respond, and the %age will be lower. It still means I get the same product for a now lesser price, so I'm not losing anything.

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pdp10@reddit

Good engineering costs money.

A well-known principle in economics is that true product quality is extremely difficult to discern at point of purchase.

One very well-known paper about this is "The Market for 'Lemons': Quality Uncertainty and the Market Mechanism", from 1970.

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Maloney-z@reddit

No, the real reason is they don't want to get banned from flights which would reduce sales for a product that markets itself as something you want to travel with.

Many airlines are banning battery banks being onboard and larger bans are looking due to to shitty low standard manufacturing quality battery banks.

By having a standard, they can lobby to have battery banks which pass this certification allowed on flights. This is still a business money reason to be clear (selling more battery banks), but increasing margins by 30% (or even part of this 30%) isn't what they're trying to do here

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pdp10@reddit

Many airlines are banning battery banks being onboard

International airlines airlines adopted an in-cabin, 100 Watt-hour limit, years ago. Vendors could "comply" by using clear capacity markings.

This newer PRC regulation seems to apply only to domestic flights in mainland China. It also resembles protectionism and/or politics more than it seems to be about fire safety.

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PineappleLemur@reddit

So airport checks will need to check individual power banks to make sure they have the "Mark" of whatever the new standard will be?

It is still much easier to just ban it all.

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MonoShadow@reddit

They're already doing it. For example if you fly to China they will check your power bank for CCC mark. If it doesn't have one they will confiscate it. In case it's a transit flight you can pick it up at the gate. Otherwise it's gone forever.

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KeyPhilosopher8629@reddit

I got checked in brisbane and the USA to make sure that mine weren't over 100wh. They were 90 and 99.9wh so I can see why the xray had a problem with it

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PineappleLemur@reddit

I recently flew to china.. there was definitely no check. I have this 11 year old ancient power bank that's half broken and held with glue... They didn't care.

No CCC mark or any mark for sure.

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MonoShadow@reddit

It might be selective. A woman next to me said she traveled to Shanghai a few months before that and there were no checks. We arrived at PKX and border control checked our power banks. It was last year's fall.

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PineappleLemur@reddit

Might be. Anyway it's time to replace that power bank anyway lol.

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YeshYyyK@reddit

transit flight

roundtrip? or domestic?

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MonoShadow@reddit

International. I flew to Japan, they returned my power bank at the game. A couple next to me traveled into China, they got their power bank confiscated.

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Exciting-Ad-5705@reddit

If China can do it other places can

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WHY_DO_I_SHOUT@reddit

The contents of the cargo are listed in the load manifest. It's not necessary to check every power bank one-by-one.

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ghenriks@reddit

They aren’t talking cargo

They are talking about passengers in their carry on. Poor quality Lithium batteries are a serious safety risk

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zdy132@reddit

Airports has been doing the checks for over a decade now. It used to be to see if you can carry on it, or should check it into baggage.

It wouldn't be to much trouble to check for a sign after checking the capacity.

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Billions13@reddit

If China doesn't regulate, people cry. When China regulates, people also cry.

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qunow@reddit

China already have a regulation. But they're only accepted within China.

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ImJLu@reddit

Yeah, China actually gives more of a shit about consumer protections than the US lol

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qunow@reddit

China's current certification have problems tho, they have a dozen of models of certified portable battery that are actually not safe and have to blacklisted by model despite they get the certification mark. There're recall but that require consumers paying attention to the model of portable battery they use

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ImJLu@reddit

That applies to any recalls anywhere though, right?

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Proglamer@reddit

but increasing margins by 30% (or even part of this 30%) isn't what they're trying to do here

How naive can you be? 😲

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YHLeo@reddit

Calling someone naive for pointing out the actual reason behind something sure is funny

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ResponsibleQuiet6611@reddit

The literal only reason why anything happens is money.

But by all means, if you've discovered the secret to business that involves making less money exclusively, please enlighten us.

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wankthisway@reddit

And what do you think happens to their profits when their battery banks aren't allowed on flights?

No shit it's about money. But self regulation has always been about getting ahead of the problem and ensuring they can keep selling their shit. Folks like you have circuit breaking, thought terminating dogma of "corpo bad" instead of engaging with the topic at hand. It's insanely frustrating to try to have a discussion when you just drop insults and smugly claim everyone is a corpo suck off.

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Proglamer@reddit

Well, have fun in your little world where companies do not think of profit with every 'correct' step they make - be it regulatory or ethical.

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YHLeo@reddit

You have been personally attacking everyone who disagrees with you. The actual reason behind all this shit is that there is a country wide ban to power banks on flight in China due to shitty power banks burning up.

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BaneChipmunk@reddit

Self-regulation to avoid or pre-empt regulation is a staple of big business. It's the best explanation in this situation.

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DepthByDelusion@reddit

It's not even pre-empt at this point. Over the last year, there have been an increasing number of cabin fires on domestic Chinese flights caused by low quality power banks. The introduction of the CCC marking was the first step to regulate, but it doesn't seem to have reduced the incidents enough. Chinese airports and flight operators are now debating whether to straight up ban power banks being in the carry on - this self-regulating standard is basically forced upon by the Chinese government to sort it out or lose a huge market of products

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Proglamer@reddit

Self-regulation is either an excuse or a nice bonus in service of the increased margin. And what is the outcome of self-regulation? Better sales than without it.

Corpo slugs have only two directives: 'eat everything nearby' and 'recoil from [regulatory] salt'.

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ShareACokeWithBoonen@reddit

Oh look, another stereotypical /r/hardware user that thinks we should all subsistence farm our own electronics, just like God and Karl Marx intended

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Proglamer@reddit

Subsistence? What? Socialism in completely unworkable in large populations. That does not mean we should have any illusions about the virus-like nature of corporations.

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Maloney-z@reddit

Reddits capacity to go straight to personal jibes over nothing never ceases to astound me

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Proglamer@reddit

Confidently asserting that a capitalistic entity does not want to increase profit at all costs deserves a finger jab.

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sr_local@reddit (OP)

Because this new standard requires also more tests

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AbhishMuk@reddit

A test does not make a product 30% more expensive.

These guys don't sell in small numbers.

Xiaomi sold 9000 of their 20,000 mah powerbank in one country. In just one month.

(And this is the data that Amazon is reporting.)

In their lifetime, they have sold 10 million powerbanks in just one country (see https://m.gsmarena.com/xiaomi_has_sold_1_million_redmibranded_power_banks_10000_and_20000_mah-news-50086.php)

Even if the test costs literally a million dollars (which it obviously won't), that's a 10 cent increase per item. And unless you were buying Xiaomi powerbanks for 30 cents... how exactly is that a 30% increase, again?

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CarVac@reddit

If the test is something like 100% CT screening of cells, that can increase costs a lot.

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AbhishMuk@reddit

One-off scans? Sure. At a manufacturing line, done at scale? Maybe a few percentage at most. Not 30%. And afaik, even today, such detailed NDT/testing is not done for all products but only eg 1 out of 100.

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CarVac@reddit

In a vacuum, yes, but you can't just snap your fingers and have enough x-ray machines and room for them to handle your factory's throughput unless your factory was extremely underutilized.

Such NDT is definitely not 100% on most consumer products, but maybe it should be required for packs larger than some size.

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demonotreme@reddit

More like they want their competitors to agree on a floor for safety, which costs in materials and testing. This is absolutely a good thing.

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zxyzyxz@reddit

Isn't this just the CCC standard as required by law in China? By the way it makes it very annoying to go to China if you already have or want to get a power bank before you go because companies in the West don't have the CCC standard yet (as expected of course) but maybe in a year or two they'll be certified for that as well.

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antifocus@reddit

CCC is the China Compulsory Certification, this new standard is what will be used to issue the certification.

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Far_Specific4836@reddit

Chinese people are extra like that. (I’m Chinese) The authorities makes a standard, and they will like to surpass that as if it’s an exam test. You will see the same in different industries like cosmetics. They will claim that their product quality control is stricter than the “European standards”.

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igenicoOCE@reddit

The worst part is that most of the models are actually certified for CCC already they just don't put the marks on it because it's meant for export markets, so it just has CE instead.

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BigIronEnjoyer69@reddit

So they're making them more durable and are gonna use brand new cells only.

Unless this is marketing wank, even if it means more expensive banks, this sounds pretty decent?

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DIYfu@reddit

Yeah, sounds pretty good to me to. So many trash powerbanks are beeing sold to people not knowing the risks of lithium batteries. Only reason air lines are looking to ban them.

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Hipstershy@reddit

Funniest part of this story, IMO, is Anker getting involved in developing the standard. Yeah man I wonder why they suddenly need to be seen as on the forefront of this

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o_oli@reddit

Anker is such trash lol. Had two of their powerbanks burn the ports on use and their cables are complete trash nowadays too and don't last nor meet the listed specs. I swapped to Ugreen for now.

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revolutier@reddit

congrats, instead of anker branded power banks, you now have the exact same power bank with "ugreen" on it. they're both ODMs lmao

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o_oli@reddit

Absolutely not true lol, they literally have different specs when tested. Very obvious when testing cables in particular even you can manage that I am sure

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GalvenMin@reddit

What's the news about them? I've been using their GaN chargers for a while and they seemed pretty high-standard compared to the no-name, Chinesium ones, is there some battery exploding scandal I'm not aware of?

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Hipstershy@reddit

is there some battery exploding scandal I'm not aware of?

Exactly, yes. They had to recall over a million power banks last year and that's not even the only recent one. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anker-powercore-power-bank-recall-lithium-ion-batteries/

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GalvenMin@reddit

Wow, that must have been a costly QA mistake. Glad I went with Ugreen for my laptop power bank, it was a close tie with one of those Anker models.

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AbhishMuk@reddit

Wow, that must have been a costly QA mistake. Glad I went with Ugreen for my laptop power bank, it was a close tie with one of those Anker models.

Hate to break it to you but Anker and UGreen are both ODMs. Anker just got unlucky (or tried saving a few ¢ on the grade - who knows.) But UGreen "has" nothing that Anker does, or vice versa - except branding, of course.

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turtleship_2006@reddit

But UGreen "has" nothing that Anker does, or vice versa - except branding, of course.

And luck I guess

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DIYfu@reddit

Honestly, stuff like this even happened to Samsung, having a recall is what makes the difference here. If you just buy some random junk without a brand behind you'd never get one.

Not saying Anker is my favorite company or what ever, heard of other issues too.

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vexatious-big@reddit

Their QA has been sloppy over the last few years.

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Corentinrobin29@reddit

It just fucks over people who already have a product from one of those companies (which is technically compliant, just not certified since it didn't exist when purchased) who want to travel to China.

In my case, I have a 90Wh UGREEN battery bank, and I travel to China often. I'd have to buy a new certified one.

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