Why is life satisfaction in Bulgaria so low?
Posted by Substratas@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 90 comments
Posted by Substratas@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 90 comments
Competitive-Read1543@reddit
Life satisfaction is higher in Ukraine rather than Bullgaria? I'm feeling a little suspicious about this methodology
kureysalp@reddit
Since when Israel is Europe?
CtrlAltDesolate@reddit
I'm a foreigner living here.
While most Bulgarians are overly pessimistic and jaded by decades of corruption - the wages here are simply horrific. The same job anywhere else in Europe you probably earn 2x, while the cost of living is the same.
Like I'm in a decent job earning more than twice what your average supermarket staff are on (for example) and 50% of my wages are gone on rent and bills.
I'm not in a fancy apartment, the market just went mental the past 2/3 years - and companies don't increase pay anywhere close to inflation, so you're usually 5% worse off each year.
I do not know how some make ends meet, and the pension rate here is absolutely criminal.
dwartbg9@reddit
The people working in supermarkets usually don't pay rent. Bulgaria has one of the highest home ownership rates in the world - much higher than Western Europe and the EU average. This is one thing foreigners like you don't realize or forget.
Some struggling people may be working for 1000€ or less, but they still own their own apartment in the city and even have a village house somewhere else. Or they have multiple inherited properties and make the rest of their money through renting them.
People also don't rely on just a single salary, either they have another contract in their position, have a side business or work two jobs. The official statistics also don't include the HUGE grey sector. Somebody may be making a minimum wage by statistics, but said person earns triple than that with money given "under the table".
CtrlAltDesolate@reddit
Bulgaria's minimum wage is €160 less than any other EU country, and over €400 less than Greece.
Rest of it sure, and some people definitely have unrealistic expectations, but I don't post false information. That helps no-one.
Most hospital nurses here earn around €800 for example. Only Latvia has a lower minimum wage than that. Even with owning a property you'll find most elderly people on a pension really struggling, especially with bills rising faster than their payouts.
And in the cash in hand jobs pay can be far worse. Not saying Greece has it any better in terms of spending power however.
MartinBP@reddit
You're wrong, there are EU countries which don't even have a minimum wage, like the Scandinavians. A minimum wage does not determine how well most people live as the majority of the population by definition should not be on the minimum wage. It's the median that matters, the minimum could be literally anything parliament decides. Ours will not surpass Greece anytime soon because we have much more economically conservative politics.
Regarding pensions, it's a miracle we even have universal pensions. It's a pyramid scheme paid for by young people and completely unsustainable. Even the miniscule sums that most elderly are receiving right now (around €500-ish I think) is more than what their generation paid into the system, so we're just running on borrowed time.
CtrlAltDesolate@reddit
You realise Bulgaria are lowest for average salary too right?
Just because I mentioned minimum doesn't make me wrong. You guys need to fact check your shit more.
dwartbg9@reddit
Bulgaria has higher average wages than Greece, dude.
And you don't see what's wrong here?? So you - a foreigner, who probably lives here from just a few years, somehow knows better than us locals who have lived here for 40 years and definitely know more Bulgarians than you, and definitely know better the reality and how the system works.
Don't you think it's absurd how you're correcting us? What would you say If I came in your country and started doing the same shit?
CtrlAltDesolate@reddit
Actually go and look up the stats on any reliable source... Eurostat, etc.
Every single one, be it mean or median, gross or net, lists Bulgaria as the lowest.
Don't you think it's absurd how you just keep going "I'm right, you're wrong" to look at the physical statistical data to see you're wrong. Because if you'd done that even once you've have stopped and deleted your comments by now.
dwartbg9@reddit
Yet we already wrote you something:
"Gray sector" and
"Official statistics don't include -insert thing here-"
Ghosthacker_94@reddit
They're from the BULGARIA IS DOING GREAT BECAUSE A MINORITY OF BPO AND IT WORKERS ARE GETTING PAID DECENT/GREAT SALARIES brigade
RegionSignificant977@reddit
My mother pension was less than 140bgn in 2020. Now it's way better. My wife's mother pension was 340bgn and her father had even lower pension. Now they can live out of their pensions.
There are nurses that are working for less than 800, that's true, but one of the reasons for that is flawed statistics from enormous gray economy. Which pressures people to agree on very low wages. At the same time my friend is telling me that he cannot find general construction workers for 2000+ eur net. Another friend of mine was installing PV panels in Germany and the difference in Bulgaria and in Germany was something like 200, 300 Euro.
I'm not saying that it's good, but you won't hear Serbian people to complain like that and life is more expensive in Belgrade compared to Sofia, and wages are little lower.
Two months ago I spoke with a guy from Greece, Thessaloniki. He said that his net salary is 800 euro. He has higher education and he grew up in Greece from Bulgarian Greek parents. And people constantly explaining how it's cheaper in Greece. No, it's not. Some things can be cheaper, but life in general is more expensive.
dwartbg9@reddit
Don't check minimum wage (also you're looking at gross numbers).
Check the average wage and then speak. Bulgaria now has higher average wages than Greece, especially the difference between Sofia and Athens is pretty staggering.
Which really is crazy, knowing how advanced Greece used to look compared to us only 20 years ago.
dwartbg9@reddit
Also this:
MartinBP@reddit
The homeownership is a communist myth at this point. It's just not true. Yes the official statistics say that, but the official statistics use the draconian "permanent address" system to determine where your "home is". Since most people never change that address from their parents' place, they remain as "homeowners" in the system even if they've been renting in Sofia for the past 20 years. And that's very common because Bulgarian landlords often don't want to register their tenants with the municipality because they'll have to pay tax on the rent. Since you won't set a rented property as your permanent address, and most people never update their "current address", the only way anyone is realistically changing their permanent address is by buying a property and moving their permanent address there, so it's almost impossible to NOT be a homeowner administratively, unless your parents sell your house/apartment or something.
No-Championship-4632@reddit
I wouldn't argue that stats are off, but this particular quote:
"Bulgarian landlords often don't want to register their tenants' current address with the municipality because they'll have to pay tax on the rent. "
it's just not true. Noone will force you to pay tax on the rent (provided that you don't declare the rent to the tax authority) with or without people having that as current address. The tax authority doesn't care about that at all. The reason landlords are reluctant to do this is that it is very hard to change it later on unless the tenants cooperate. This can become a problem later on, especially in corner cases (like mine: my permament address is an apartment I rent in the same neighborhood, I've had tenants with current address there that didn't unregister and suddenly I had a problem trying to apply my kid to the local school, the "proximity" points were "dropped" because it can't be possible two that families live in the same place according to them. Also you tend to get snail mail related to old tenants all the time, sometimes years after.
RegionSignificant977@reddit
Few months ago I spoke with a greek guy that lives in Thessaloniki and he was earning as much as the supermarket staff in Bulgaria. And it's not cheaper there for sure.
Also people that are earning more than you are complaining. A lot of people are very irresponsible financially. Gray economy is looming and no one knows what average salary is because of that. News even in most popular national media are extremely negative. Because of unaccounted money from gray economy wages seem lower, which gives the opportunity of some employers to press the staff to agree on worse conditions.
People expect that with an average job/salary you have to be able to afford German luxury vehicle for example. Which is not possible almost nowhere. It's not remotely that bad as it was in the beginning of the century when even Serbia was better than Bulgaria despite the recent war. And people would work illegally absolutely worst jobs in Greece for peanuts. There are a lot of things that are bad in Bulgaria, but many people have very unrealistic expectations.
dwartbg9@reddit
Yes, people just expect that being in the EU, means to live like some Swiss banker, own a nice villa, be able to afford a brand new car every few years and go on exotic holidays throughout the year.
MartinBP@reddit
While paying zero taxes and working part-time (or not working at all).
Any_Fill9642@reddit
I'm married to a Bulgarian. Even if the glass was way more than half full there would be complaints. She didn't want a glass. It's full of the wrong thing. She didn't ask for a glass in the first place so why is there even one there and why is it nearly full?
I see a habit of catastrophising with many people I deal with here, shared in equal parts with complacency towards any good things that are happening.
Happy-Hour88@reddit
Yeah, I hope I marry a foreign girl because I'd like to learn a better way of seeing the world and most Bulgarian x Bulgarian couples I know seem not really happy, they just feed each others' negativity and insecurity. Then their children see this and they soak it up.
Any_Fill9642@reddit
Good luck friend!
MartinBP@reddit
Yup. People here, especially older ones, have zero perspective. They don't understand how anything anywhere works and think that people in every other country just get a government paycheck in the mail and go on vacation for 6 months a year.
You have people in the countryside with a highschool diploma expecting a full German pension after working for 5 hours per day for 30 years and dodging every tax and social security payment possible.
Hot_Distribution_131@reddit
She is a Bulgarian and a woman! Unbelievable combo for complaining! (If my GF sees this, I would be gone from this world)
Ayvee12@reddit
Why is Cyprus just one dot?
Substratas@reddit (OP)
I assume it’s because the approach was different in the Middle Eastern countries (Israel is also a red dot).
HovercraftPlen6576@reddit
Give me reason to be satisfied with anything regarding the life in Bulgaria? My life have been shitty for decade. Recently I tried to fight a discrimination again my father with disability after the police almost killed him.
The counry's Ombudsman gave me written decline to help me, even tho she is often seen pretending to care about the issues of those with disability.
An internal investigation with the cops resulted in nothing wrong been done in their work.
The prosecutor on the case also didn't bother finding anything wrong.
The national anti discrimination institution in the country gave me an answer that they won't bother getting the officers to testify. And I haven't heard from the institution in months.
It's all a big joke. Tax payers money wasted. Years ago I had to beg the doctors to help my dying mother and one f# asked me where I do prefer my mother to die, in the hospital or home. She was in need of help, she was in pain.
It's a shit hole of a country, and it's all our fault.
Lonely-Ad-1775@reddit
We're living very well here, people are faking statistics just to keep the foreigners away.
Meaty32ID@reddit
Our favourite passtime in Bulgaria is complaining. About everything and everyone, regardless if it's improving or not.
Ok_Eagle_3079@reddit
Bulgarians complain a lot. Yesterday in the Sofia sub reddit there was a person complaining that the municipality cleans the streats.
Is crazy that we are less satisfied then Ukrainians...
canyoubelieveitt@reddit
To be fair it depends probably also how the question is asked and who is asked. Whenever there is such a survey here I always assume they go to gypsies and let them answer questionnaires for 10 euro. For example I have never been surveyed for anything, ever.
Ok_Eagle_3079@reddit
I have never been to a nuclear power plant so i think that gypsies are paid 10 euro to ride bikes that produce electricity.
A big part of survays is exactly what the question is and who should be asked.
No-Championship-4632@reddit
I've had someone tell me that whenever they remove the spent fuel from the reactor, they send gypsies to clean it from the inside. The guy seemed to truly believe that.
Ok_Eagle_3079@reddit
3.6 Not great not terible
gobgobgobgob@reddit
lol this is peak Bulgarian. “Well, I’ve never been surveyed, so I assume it’s the gypsy answering questions for 10 euro.”
canyoubelieveitt@reddit
Yes?
Best-Ad-1223@reddit
Expensive to live in, compared to the wages, blatant corruption everywhere( although it has decreased), a society made up of hardcore individualists, if we can even call it sociery. That sums it I think.
SuedeJacketMonster@reddit
I bet this applies to almost every country in the world. Bulgarians have a higher standard than 85% of the world population, yet they portray themselves as the worst of the worst. We're not perfect but this pessimism needs to stop asap.
Majestic_Potato_5408@reddit
Well if it's worse than anywhere around... that the children in Africa are starving does not make my life better.
Best-Ad-1223@reddit
Just because we're better than most, doesn't mean that there aren't enourmous problems on a evey level. I never understtod your logic. What shoul we do? Just accespt the good thing( a few if you ask me) and neglect/ be blind to the shiity stuff? How can we progress then?
MartinBP@reddit
That would make sense if we actually tried improving as a nation. But we don't. We just bitch and moan and then viciously attack anyone actually trying to improve things until they give up and leave.
The criticism is completely warranted.
Best-Ad-1223@reddit
Viciously attack anyone trying to improve things? Who does that?
Fred_Neecheh@reddit
Hajduk society
Ottomans are gone but we all remain hajduks/klefts
Best-Ad-1223@reddit
Yeah, pretty much.
morbihann@reddit
Pretty much, though corruption decreasing is doubtful, just less obvious currently.
PVanchurov@reddit
Yes, corruption is so bad, people think that since we stopped bribing the pigs for traffic violations all the time and лелката в гише doesn't want a box of chocolates there is no corruption. Corruption and nepotism in the government is massive and it's getting worse, it's what actually kills the state, incompetent twats being given a critical job they're incapable of doing.
canyoubelieveitt@reddit
Because there is no country in the world that loves to complain as much as we do. We are number 1 in the world in this regard. Even if average salaries were 3000 euros people here would say people in Burundi have it better.
sinnedslip@reddit
nah, Netherlands say the same, I think it’s sort of false belief across the nations
Majestic_Potato_5408@reddit
I work with some guys who need very high survey scores, and there are literal exceptions for the Dutch because you can almost never get the highest or 2nd highest score from them regardless of situation. They think everything is bad and many even reserve the top score for God. You have to give them a blowjob with ball stimulation while solving their issue in 5 min to get a 7/10 and this can be very hard to achieve by phone.
The long term life dissatisfaction with life of a poor balkaner is way lower. And they will react with temporary positivity if something ever goes good.
Ok_Eagle_3079@reddit
Untill Elon Musk becomes the poorest Bulgarian things won't improve.
ghteykh@reddit
Because there is no Turkey there and this makes Bulgaria’s stats low. Turkey, the might outlier of any stat that is related to the human life, justice, economy
Ill_Negotiation7827@reddit
Putting Is*ael but not Bosnia, Albania, Serbia, Turkey... is insane
MartinBP@reddit
Those aren't the countries we should be comparing ourselves to.
Ill_Negotiation7827@reddit
Ok mr. Bulgaria
Dear-Ad1582@reddit
Cause there is no Romania in that data to be the lower limit...
Immediate_Wealth9713@reddit
Lol
LibertyChecked28@reddit
We have 400 Euro salary, with 200 Euro worth of taxes, and 500 euro average living expenses.
MartinBP@reddit
We have the lowest taxes in the EU and even the minimum wage isn't €400, get real.
xzxnz@reddit
The war with Malta has destroyed people's morale
Stverghame@reddit
Elite ball knowledge
Hot_Distribution_131@reddit
Can you give us the ball knowledge? We lost in football or?
Stverghame@reddit
Official Bulgarian and official Maltese instagram pages were at random internet war just a month ago or so, sending coordinates of the other country to Israel/Iran for nuking lol
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVVGFNdjYyF/
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DVi00SIDZP4/
MartinBP@reddit
Neither of those pages are official.
Mysterious-Put1459@reddit
And its the same guy posting from 2 accounts which makes it even funnier
Primary-Dust-3091@reddit
Have you been here?
Substratas@reddit (OP)
I haven’t. But it can’t be worse than Albania…
No-Championship-4632@reddit
The thing is if you ask, there are two possible answers, one would be "no, you are lying, Albania must be better, because..." (he knows someone who knows someone who told him a kilo of beef meat is twice as cheaper). The other possible answer you can get from the racist type: "Why are you comparing to Albania? They are Albanians and we are *very* special and deserve better". This has some subtle subtype (usually far-right/anti-EU people): "We are part of EU, so we should be light years ahead of Albania and this is what we get".
No-Championship-4632@reddit
That's the definition of Bulgarian after all.
Immediate_Wealth9713@reddit
https://youtu.be/oIAMxQ1KLiI
Substratas@reddit (OP)
💀💀💀
qlwkerjqewlkr@reddit
gypsies
Immediate_Wealth9713@reddit
Stupid Polak
qlwkerjqewlkr@reddit
nope, Czech, nice try tho balkan shit
Immediate_Wealth9713@reddit
Czech is a type of Polak you dumb kunt 😂
SwimmingHelicopter15@reddit
Where is Romania? We usually fight for the first spot in bad news
Statakaka@reddit
Why is the average life satisfaction elsewhere way above the average number of the scale is a better question
morbihann@reddit
Have you been here ? Expensive, dirty and essentially no society, just people living in close proximity to you.
SuedeJacketMonster@reddit
And if you put all this in a global rather than European perspective, your conclusions should be the exact opposite. Is it better in Switzerland? Obviously. Is it far worse in Uganda, Bolivia and pretty much everywhere else? Obviously. We need to appreciate what we have, moaning is destructive.
morbihann@reddit
The fact that 3/4 of the world is even worse shouldn't erase the fact that it is (just mostly) shit here as well.
_Caligulean_@reddit
Sounds very familiar.
Immediate_Wealth9713@reddit
It’s simple… Bulgarias know they deserve better and their time will come again!
arcane_labor92@reddit
We like to moan about everything. And the actual competition is to show everyone not that you're the most successful, but the most miserable, with the biggest problems.
SuedeJacketMonster@reddit
Victim complex.
randydescribingstuff@reddit
The original post says that the data for this is from between 2002 and 2016 btw. A lot has changed since then (including the fact that there was no full blown war in Ukraine).
BadBasik@reddit
Bosnia is off the charts!
DeInking@reddit
You can see the data is much more spread out compared to other countries where it’s clustered around the meat. I think the society is highly polarized and the media is constantly bombarding everyone with news about how terrible and hopeless everything is. Much more so than foreign media (at least in my experience).
RegionSignificant977@reddit
Unrealistic expectations.
Besrax@reddit
This is it. We are famous for being an outlier in life satisfaction - we are unusually unhappy relative to our standard of living.
EconomyIndependent74@reddit
Its a PvP server , everyone full of debt looking all flashy and shiny , and everage people are thinking they are doing bad looking at social media , CORRUPTMAXING is a trend for the last 20 years
SrboBleya@reddit
Probably because there's a cultural tendency toward complaint. Ukraine is in a worse situation (lower real income and literally at war) and they score higher on life satisfaction.
Should I even mention very low income African and South Asian countries that also probably score higher than Bulgaria?