Regretting my purchase
Posted by Cup-Oh-Noodle@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 156 comments
I have been doing some research online for my first ebike purchase and was ready to get a Aventon Level 4 ADV until I walked into a ebike shop today in my city. I live in a very hilly city with a rather hilly commute but after talking to the mechanic/sales person at the shop they actually talked me down to the Aventon REC saying that Mid-Drives have more complicated ware and tear and that a Hub drive works just as well for my rather hilly commute. After reading everything online about mid-drive superiority I am stating to regret y purchase. Can anyone help me stop spiraling?
abercrombezie@reddit
Mid-drives way better for maintenance. Hub is actually harder just fixing flats if caught with a puncture out on the mean streats. Mid drives is just like changing any other bike tire.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
Only the rear tire is more difficult. And if you are doing it right by putting FlatOut in your inner tubes, it's a non-concern. You can go years without a flat.
Inevitable_darkelf@reddit
FlatOut in tubes is one of the worst things you can do.
It makes tube changes messy, adds rotating weight, and doesn’t fix common flats like pinch flats or big punctures. When the tube finally fails, everything inside the tire is covered in sticky sealant.
Better solution: good tires and proper tire pressure.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
With FlatOut you can go years without changing tubes.
A few ounces of rotating weight on a 50+ pound ebike which has a motor is a relatively minor consideration.
Pinch flats are almost entirely in the domain of mountain biking and not an issue if running normal pressure.
Very few punctures (maybe 1%) are beyond what FlatOut can seal.
It takes all of two minutes to rinse debris and sealant out of a tire once unmounted.
Good tires and proper pressure are givens. No tires are immune to punctures. The benefits of FlatOut are obvious to those who live in places where thorns are ubiquitous and where they would get a flat every other week without sealant.
No, FlatOut is not one of the worst things you can do. It's one of the easiest things you can do to prevent having to abort your ride or perform on the trail repairs.
Inevitable_darkelf@reddit
It works for some people, but from a mechanic standpoint sealant in tubes creates more problems than it solves.
When a tire finally needs service, everything is coated in sticky sealant and a simple tube change becomes a messy job.
Good puncture resistant tires, correct pressure, and something like a liner usually prevent most flats without turning the wheel into a science experiment.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
A tube with FlatOut can outlast the lifespan of a tire quite easily.
But in the event the tube fails first, it's quite easy to wipe down the inside of a tire.
Bleeding brakes can be messy. Oil changes can be messy. This is trivial.
Tire liners are expensive, add considerable weight, suffer from compression over time, deaden steering feel, and don't offer protection against punctures from long objects.
JohnnyCanuckist@reddit
so is Flatout sealant better than the Tannus armour lining you can use instead?
Not a lot of thorns where I live, some cacti and berries but no goatheads.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
I haven't used Tannus armour. I'm skeptical about what the extra layer does to control. FlatOut is also cheaper. And will protect against punctures from any location.
abercrombezie@reddit
Getting ride performance from a tire isn’t just about speed and efficiency, it’s also way more comfortable. Running solid inserts, liners, or bulletproof surfaces like Marathons is like cutting off one's nose to spite their face.
abercrombezie@reddit
Being married to a rear wheel set is a killer. I run tubeless compatible wheelsets on my mid drive, something rare with hub motors. Even switched to carbon wheels recently. I can do low pressure and it’s resistant to both sharp bits and snake bites. FlatOut in tubes, you’re still prone to snake bites and need to use high pressure to prevent such vulnerabilities.
godzillabobber@reddit
Not difficult. One plug to deal with. Maybe a zip tie. Have you ever changed a hub motor wheel? Can't understand why people are intimidated by that.
christo19862010@reddit
only tricky thing i ran into tbh is probably aligning the female part of the plug with the male when placing the wheel back on , first time like an idiot the two parts of the plug were no where near and couldn’t get my head round it
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
Yes, I have. I'm not intimidated by it. I've addressed the rest in my other response just posted.
godzillabobber@reddit
Hub drive tire change. Loosen nuts. Unplug hub. Remove wheel. Remove tire. Replace tube. Replace tire. Put wheel back in. Plug in motor. Ride.
Not all that hard. Mid-drive skips the plug. Not much less effort.
Revolutionary_Fly769@reddit
Just break the bead on one side.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
It's not difficult but the main problems are the zip ties holding the cable that must be cut and replaced and the large nuts on the axle that require a large wrench. Carrying the tools to change a hub drive flat is the real issue if saddlebag space is limited.
stormdelta@reddit
Depends on the setup. The way mine is built, the cable has a plug near the motor and I don't need anything extra securing the bit of cable past the plug.
True for most hub motors and definitely a significant issue. It's part of why I upgraded to one with a normal through-axle last year.
Egg_shaped@reddit
I’ve also found it harder to get the hub drive wheel back into the dropouts often. Often it’s a tight fit and I can’t line up the axle right easily. It’s not a large difficulty but it’s a big part of why I chose mid
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
Yes, it takes more effort to re-align the wheel and tabs so it will fit into place. Anyone claiming the process is no different beyond pulling a plug is being dishonest.
O2C@reddit
After doing this once, I used velcro cable tie instead of the zip tie. I seem to get one with every other purchase that includes as USB cable. I use it for anything that I might move again. I keep a spare and an extra zip tie in my toolkit.
godzillabobber@reddit
How hard is it to be prepared? Thats like saying it's too hard to ride at night because you never bother to have lights with you. If you can't carry the essential tools for a hub motor, you aren't likely to have what you need for a mid-drive either. Oh my goodness, keeping track of washers is so hard.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
I laid out the specific differences in black and white. Steps you missed, like zip ties. You could simply acknowledge the differences rather than doubling down on pretending they don't exist or shaming anyone who doesn't carry a 5 gallon toolkit.
godzillabobber@reddit
Life is hard for you. Thank goodness for mommies to rescue those of us that can't cope.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
You can take a hike.
stormdelta@reddit
Through-axle hub drives exist, albeit rare.
And with a mid-drive, if anything goes wrong with your drive train you're stuck walking the bike, coupled with added wear-and-tear on said drive train. A direct drive motor with regen braking additionally massively reduces brake maintenance.
And I basically never get flats around town anyways.
Octavio_belise@reddit
Same goes for acoustic bikes, you break a chain or bike falls over and bends the derailleur then yeah you're walking. What you are describing are benefits of a moped or electric scooter.
stormdelta@reddit
You mean analog, acoustic is guitars. And we're talking about ebikes.
Obviously not.
My bike can be pedaled if something goes wrong with the motor, and can be driven by the motor if something goes wrong with the drive train.
A scooter or moped only has a motor and if something goes wrong with it, you're stuck walking it.
Octavio_belise@reddit
My mid-motor broke down, and I could still pedal it like a normal bike. Of course if the chain broke, then I'd have a problem.
capt_shitacular@reddit
To be honest though the Hub Drive isn't that much more difficult I've had three e-bikes now and changing the rear tire where the Hub motor is hasn't been too much different from a regular rear tire on a bike
joeg26reddit@reddit
Hub drive e-bikes are way heavier than mid drives
the range is much shorter. Often around half.
Hub drive electric bike motors are more apt to burn out faster.
Way harder to maintain especially if your rear hub bearings go bad or if the spokes or rim gets damaged
Ride feel. Hub drives feel unnatural compared to mid drive
Balance: hub drives are extremely rearward weighted. This can increase the occurrence of dangerous speed wobbles on downhill roads. Rear weight bias makes climbing steep and loose trails more difficult
stormdelta@reddit
I don't know where you're pulling that from, but it's just totally wrong unless you're trying to use a hub on mountainous paths. A mid-drive is often more efficient than a direct hub motor, sure, but not by double, not even close.
Geared hubs maybe. Direct drive hubs are significantly more resilient to abuse.
Those aren't maintenance issues, they're structural failures usually caused by defects in the design or manufacturing. I've never had a spoke break or rim damaged by a hub motor in 8+ years.
Somewhat, though torque sensors being more common on mid-drives has more to do with that.
The balance issue is more of a problem for trails/dirt and technical terrain than anything else, and is why eMTBs are usually mid-drives.
seize32136@reddit
It's also like 30 pounds heavier..I'm sorry but I have to agree that's its more difficult to change a tire with a rear hub
punkpipo@reddit
I am confused, why are so many talking about replacing tubes? I would only need to do that once every 5 years or so with super intense use. Just fix the leak with a patch and glue?
Veganarchy-Zetetic@reddit
Exactly. You don't even need to take the entire wheel off anyway. Just let the air out and fix the tube while it is still on the wheel if you must use a patch. Either that or squirt some sealant into the valve. Simple stuff.
Veganarchy-Zetetic@reddit
Squirt some sealant in the tube. Job done. Easy.
Efficient-League-595@reddit
I would return the bike if you’re still within your window. The mechanic/salesperson you talked to doesn’t know what they’re talking about and was probably trying to unload a bike that had been on the floor for a while. I would also try going with a reputable brand that has a great warranty, like Trek.
digitalaudiotape@reddit
It sounds like this is what happened to me also.
If mid-drives are more maintenance then as brick and mortar bike shop with repair service the mechanic/sales guy should have been happy to sell the mid-drive bike for more repeat business.
Watches503@reddit
Mid-drive is the way to go for hills, if you’re looking to exercise and burn less battery. But many hub e-bikes will do the job too, burning more battery.
Middrives also feel like cycling. Hub e-bikes feel like you’re getting pushed from right behind.
I lost 85 pounds on a hub and bought a secod hub ebike but then i had middrive and was hooked. Now I only have 2 middrives
MeeyuhLol@reddit
Just out of curiosity because I've heard so many weight loss claims on using ebikes - how? I've had my ebike for about a year and a half and I've actually gained a ton of weight
VoteForPedro2028@reddit
Do you have the type that you always have to pedal?
Eastern_Bat_3023@reddit
Regardless of what you're riding or how much you're riding, you can still gain weight. It's largely a matter of how many calories you're eating. Some people get much more hungry and just eat more than the calories they've burnt, because you really won't burn many calories in a 10-15 mile commute on an ebike.
gotitaila31@reddit
This is the one reason I miss my old regular bike. My cardio hasn't really degraded, but I don't think it's improved either since switching to an Ebike. I loved the cardio gains.
BassesNBikes@reddit
Pedal it at low assist.
Sea-Plane4715@reddit
Agreed
dianas_pool_boy@reddit
Are you riding in the woods or roads/greenways?
gahb13@reddit
Are you biking more than you did before? For lots of people e-bikes can unlock/motivate to bike more, but not everyone.
Watches503@reddit
I rode 14 miles each way to work with my first Ebike. Often I’d just venture out coming back home and do 18 to 21 instead.
On weekends, after a few weeks, I was addicted to riding, so I’d ride another 30-60 on weekends. Had a side bag to carry a second battery for days like that.
I enjoyed sprinting and cruising. Sprinting until legs hurt and then just cruising. I probably. Not every time, but often and never before work. I got to the point that I hated not riding, even when my legs were beat some days.
Daboujieboo89@reddit
Couldnt you put a hub on your mid drive bike and use both?
Revolutionary_Fly769@reddit
Will a hub drive work on through axles?
Watches503@reddit
I don’t know who down voted you but it’s a fair question. I see all kinds of mods on Facebook ebike groups. You can absolutely do both if you have the skills or right person to do it for you. Mine are for exercise but in the future I’d love one to substitute my car.
I went to work here only once for 21 miles and it was a bit scary. Not very safe. So I’d love a 55mph e-moto-ish maybe next year.
I don’t have the patience or interest to attempt to piece everything out and the. Install. Gives me a headache just thinking about it 🤣
Sea-Plane4715@reddit
Lost 55 here. I feel born again, soni know what you mean. Can't say my old Vanmoof S3 wants a factor. Kept my leg muscles tight and strong.
Side note: The bike (Nebula) is loving the weight loss in those hills 🤗🚲
Watches503@reddit
Way to go! So happy for you!
Extension-Version813@reddit
As long as it’s torque sensing is gonna feel pretty good. A lot of hub motor systems just have really bad sensors that are more like motion sensors.
Where are the motor is only matters a little bit.
stumpyjumpy44@reddit
Congrats on the weight loss stranger! Proud of you!
Watches503@reddit
Thanks a lot!
In that year, we lived 14 miles from work and I’d always ebike there when good weather and charge it while I work. It was a super safe route and even fun.
christo19862010@reddit
did the mid grow on you after a while , I have a hub e-bike and just bought a mid bafang, compared to the hub bike it feels like i’m riding through mud
tokin247@reddit
Dude you can't beat direct drive. It feels like a motorcycle more than a power assisted bicycle. I guess it depends how you like to ride. I prefer the motorcycle feeling rather than worrying about shifting gears etc. They're easier to maintain and has less moving parts.
Hashtag_Labotomy@reddit
Since you been building this stuff for a while it seems, does anyone make different gearing for hub motors or is it all just different windings? Cause in my area I could use more torque than speed. A 20% speed reduction for more torque on a hub motor would be pretty sweet without have to change controllers and batteries
stormdelta@reddit
Direct drive motors don't have gearing, so the variables are size of the motor, size of the wheel, and the windings. Grin Tech makes explicitly different windings for their motors, though they're rather expensive to import right now due to to bullshit tariffs.
tokin247@reddit
Motors with that kind of torque don't use planetary gearing systems like the smaller motors do. You can have them custom wound but I'm not too read up on the intricacies of motor windings. Diameter of the wire and number of wraps etc...
Theres no other way besides a higher wattage motor and a higher current controller. 5-10kw, 120A controller etc. Current = torque. Heat will be the ultimate issue. I have a 3kw 72v 60A controller on a diamondback expresso and hot damn does it pull. Personally I don't think you'd need much more on a diy bicycle setup for getting around efficiently and having a blast.
BassesNBikes@reddit
It must be broken then.
Watches503@reddit
Sorry what do you mean feels like I am driving through mud?
I fell in love immediately with my first one. I gave away my first one, Himiway, to a friend. Sold the Biktrox Moto. Now I have an FLX Blade and biktrix juggernaut classic. In the future I’ll get an E-MTB. Both are Bafang mods. 750W and 1500W
christo19862010@reddit
just doesn’t feel smooth to me , a bit stiff , yet the brakes aren’t rubbing or anything
Watches503@reddit
Bummer. I don’t know what to tell you. I wonder if there’s an issue with it. Mine feel super smooth and both are Bafang.
Sandhill75@reddit
You bought a great bike, and the torque on the rear hub's is great for hills, and bust a chain/belt on a mid-drive and you're stuck. Bust a chain on a rear hub and motor spin your way home.
anhphamfmr@reddit
I have 2 mid drive and 1 hub - ride1up Vorsa. That mother fker climbs hill like a beast, beat both of my mid drive. I have no idea what people are talking about hub drive cant clim hill well. you guys were using a 50w motor or what?
Efficient-League-595@reddit
One crucial aspect you’re overlooking is the potential cost of repairs when these direct-to-consumer brands face challenges. The groupset and brakes on these bikes are of subpar quality. Additionally, most local bike shops are unable to keep these bikes overnight for repairs due to the fire hazards and insurance complications associated with removing the battery. While these bikes may initially appeal to consumers due to their lower price, their durability is questionable. When warranty issues arise, where do you turn for assistance? How are warranty repairs handled? If this is your primary mode of transportation, it’s an investment in your quality of life, and you deserve assurance that you’re getting your money’s worth. .
anhphamfmr@reddit
they mostly use standard parts from shimano, tektron, bafang, akm, etc. I disagree with people say that they are less reliable. these can be easily upgraded and swapped. unless if you mean a Shimano deore installed on the a dtc bike will be less reliable than on the same Deore installed on a Trek?
Efficient-League-595@reddit
When your unassuming rear hub motor fails, how can you get it replaced? The cost of replacing the motor and labor to restore the bike’s functionality will be half the price of the bike itself.
anhphamfmr@reddit
I checked the motor connector, it's a standard connector that many chinese hub motors use. you can get a rim + motor assy off Amazon for less than $250. Then pop the old wheel out, swap the tire and cassette. And pop the new one in. It's not even that hard.
stormdelta@reddit
That's a potential issue with any DTC brand, it's not really about motor type.
UsernameTaken1701@reddit
How do they manage the batteries for the ebikes they sell and keep in stock?
Efficient-League-595@reddit
Those batteries have been tested and are warrantied through the LBS and manufacturer.
UsernameTaken1701@reddit
Glad to hear that about the Vorsa. It’s on my shortlist with Velotrek Discovery 2 or 3 and Aventon Abound SR, and I’m trying gauge how they do on hills. My area isn’t super hilly, but the 2 hills I encounter are quite long and about 4% grade.
anhphamfmr@reddit
I live in a hilly area and I was hesitate at first since I heard people keep saying these rear hubs cant do hills. probably they still live in 2000s.
bravesfan21@reddit
How natural does the ride / pedaling feel on the Vorsa compared to the mid drives? I'm considering the Vorsa but I love how my mid drive feels like a regular bike. Was the Vorsa hard to put together?
anhphamfmr@reddit
From the natural feel point of view: Mid drive 10. Vorsa 9. You can feel the difference, but very little because Vorsa has a torque sensor. When I put it together, because the bike has a thicker than usual brake rotor (which is good) but I found it a little bit difficult to eliminate the pad rub.
BugHistorical1614@reddit
Pay the trade in difference. Take the loss now. I've done 3 ebikes in the last 5 years. I am going to wait unit designers get Ebikes perfected and that will be my final bike.
This time of year, we need to rebuild stamina.
SuperPedro2020@reddit
the Aventon level 4 is very close to perfect tho
BugHistorical1614@reddit
Which is why, OP show eat the trade in loss now rather than later. I've discovered on my bikes, there is a ~ 50% or more, depreciation 1 year after purchase.
A even better bike is belt drive and hub shifting.
dark_roast@reddit
Mid-drives put all the energy through the chain, so chain and derailleur quality matter to a far greater extent than a hub bike. On a hub, depending on your pedaling ability you're putting maybe 125-250w of force onto the chain. With a 750w middrive you're looking at 4-7x the power, at least for short bursts.
With the torque this one produces, you should expect more frequent chain maintenance than an equivalent hub drive, but the specs look good and I wouldn't worry about it. As others have said, the ride feel is likely nicer on the mid-drive, and for raw hill climbing abilities the mid-drive should be superior, but you'll have to be more thoughtful about shifting.
This bike looks very similar to the Velotric Discover M I've been looking at. Beefy, non brand name mid-drive motors, CUES shifters, and high quality chains in the mid $2k range. Aventon and Velotric also have large dealer networks (Aventon's is larger IIRC) so repairs and basic maintenance should be easy to get. The Bosch based brands are likely the most reliable and supported, with Aventon one notch down but at a sharp discount relative to performance.
I've also been back and forth on whether I want to get the hub drive equivalent Velotric instead. One of the big advantages of mid-drives used to be torque sensors, but most hub motors have those now. I haven't tried one of these mid-drives yet in person, but the torque sensor hub drives I've tested, including on the Aventon Level, are very responsive and negate most of my complaints about my old cadence sensor hub drive.
Revolutionary_Fly769@reddit
Nothing wrong with hub drive except all the weight in the hub and you are stuck with the rims/hubs obviously. Of course mid drive is superior. He’s probably trying to sell you a specific bike.
Hungryforflavor@reddit
My first bike was a hubdrive it lasted about a year of street riding then the spokes couldnt handle the hub motor torque and loosened and bent the wheel , the manufacturer wouldnt fix it under warranty . Now i have a mid drive no problems so far for over two years
stormdelta@reddit
This is mainly a problem with extremely cheap or poorly built hub setups.
I've never had a spoke break on a hub motor in 8+ years of using them.
GuppyOnReddit@reddit
Well, I actually overheated my Rear Hub motor on a steep hill.... Ended up walking it up the rest of the way.... It cooled down and I was able to get home. Everything I've heard is that mid-drive is the way to go!
Eastern_Bat_3023@reddit
Does the bike work for you or not?
I have a hub drive, it's totally fine.
Icy_Cook8488@reddit
I live in northwestern NJ a lot of steep climbs here and dual 1500W (peak) hub motors are what I have for climbing steep grades. Yours might work fine for you and you wont know unless you go out and put it to the test. Also you might want to consider adding another battery (or more) in parallel using a battery combiner. The bike will see them as one and draw equally from them. Less voltage sag going up hills. I run about 120 amp hours worth of battery on a 48 volt dike
gahb13@reddit
As said above, just go try a hill and see if you like it. Also, hub let's you have a throttle, while mid drive doesn't.
windoneforme@reddit
Plenty of mid drives have throttles.
eve379@reddit
I live in the hills. I bought an Aventon Pace 4. Love it. My next door neighbors have a pair of Adventures. They love them. Aventon is a solid brand. Go out and ride it. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.
Killed_By_Covid@reddit
Way too many variables with each. Not all mid-drives are created equal. Same for hubs. Battery location can turn a great bike into a bad one. If the bike isn't comfortable for you, it won't matter which motor you run. Both will be reliable if maintained. Try to keep the battery between 30-80%. Personally, I like hub motors for on-road riding and mid-drive for off-road. For hub motors, both direct and geared are good.
Get the bike that feels right when you ride it. You're gonna love it.
Tizer887@reddit
I have a little ebike which has a hub drive and it just glides up hills and eats them for breakfast 🥞
slacknsurf420@reddit
I go up like an 80 foot tall bridge everyday with like a 30 degree incline at 25 mph on PAS 3/5 with the dual hubs
it would honestly handle faster like 30 mph but why strain it
ContentMaintenance26@reddit
I've got a mid and a bought a hub drive after the mid drive blew a torque sensor and needed a new motor
. Hub is actually a bit easier up hills,
MesugakiBratTamer@reddit
I never knew torque sensors were built into the motor assembly... learn something new everyday it seems
stormdelta@reddit
It's most common to put the torque sensor in the bottom bracket so that it can measure torque on the spindle attached to the crank, so it makes sense to be in the motor assembly for mid-drives.
It's possible to have torque sensors elsewhere, like in the wheel hub or even on the chain tension itself, but that's usually only done for hub setups.
dianas_pool_boy@reddit
Mid drives are incredible and don't have more maintenance or internal wear.
stormdelta@reddit
All motor types have pros/cons.
Incorrect. A mid-drive has internal gearing that will eventually need service. They're usually more resilient compared to geared hub motor due to the efficiency from gearing, but a direct drive hub motor doesn't even have gearing to wear in the first place.
And a mid-drive puts more wear and tear on the drivetrain compared to a hub.
MesugakiBratTamer@reddit
Hub drives shine on flats and are decent on hills.
Also because of less moving parts and independence from the drivetrain, more reliable and less maintenance costs from replacing chains, cassettes, etc.
You don't need a chain to ride a hub motor ebike, but if your chain breaks in a mid drive, you ain't going nowhere and hope you like walking a bike for miles
stormdelta@reddit
Also, if you live someplace that gets freezing temps and snow, chain slippage with a mid-drive is a huge issue and I'm always surprised I don't see more people talking about that.
Egg_shaped@reddit
I carry a multitool with a chain breaker. The once I had a chain snap I removed a link and fixed it. Checked it when I was home and the length was good.
You can also carry a quick link in case
Tokaholic@reddit
Man I’ve been researching the shit out of this the past 2 weeks and some of you all really helped me. The fact the hub drive will still work w a broken chain 🤌
BassesNBikes@reddit
Cains are silly easy to repair. Takes one small, light tool and less than an ounce of spare parts.
kashuntr188@reddit
Hub drive can work even if your chain is broken.
Pros and cons to each I guess. Go try it out on the hills.
Mindless-Concept8010@reddit
In 70 years I’ve never broken a chain.
stormdelta@reddit
I've had chains break, but the much more common issue is chain slippage, particularly in winter/icy conditions where I live. No amount of keeping the chain lubricated and cleaned is going to help when moisture gets on the chain and partially freezes while I'm out and about, and in any case I'm trying to minimized extra maintenance required.
A direct hub also enables variable regen braking, that dramatically reduces brake maintenance and helps ensure I have full braking power even when the wheels are slightly iced over.
BodSmith54321@reddit
Now go survey people who have never ridden a mid drive e-bike before and are not long time cyclists.
BungalowSavage@reddit
Very good point. I had a bungie cord come loose on the rear rack. It somehow wedged the chain between the gears and frame which I couldn’t get out. The hub drive got me home with better tools to fix the issue. Saved me a 2-3 mile walk
mataliandy@reddit
"Superior" is a subjective perspective. What matters is how well it works for you. The circumstances in which you use it, the kind of riding you do, etc. all make a difference in which bike is right for you.
It sounds like the guy at the bike shop helped you save money and get the bike that meets your needs. Bring him a thank you card when you bring the bike in for its first tune-up!
iregreteverything15@reddit
Yep. I would really only recommend a Mid Drive to people if they answer yes to BOTH of these questions. 1. Are you already and an avid "analog" cyclist and you really like it? 2. Can you comfortably afford a Mid Drive? No to either question, then don't bother. Just get the Hub Drive.
The best reason to get a Mid Drive is the "feel." If you like and have ton of experience riding a regular pedaled powered bike, then a good Mid Drive is going to match that feeling the best. Something that people who ride analog bikes love about them, is how simple and direct of machines they are. A good Mid Drive will match that feeling pretty closely. Plus, you will have a bunch of soft skills, like, how to use and get the most out of your gears. How to anticipate downshifts. How to quickly launch from a dead stop. With a good mid drive, you can just set the assist level and then ride it like a regular bike.
But if you don't have much experience or don't like regular bikes, then Hub drive will probably work better for you. They almost always have throttles which can be very useful. They make getting going easier. Not great with gears? You can throttle to get going. Didn't downshift prior to the hill? Throttle. You can also just scooter around and then pedal when you want.
If you are on a budget, then just get the Hub motor. Because nothing "feels" as good as having money in the bank. I love my Bosch Mid Drive, but I absolutely would not recommend that anyone buy one if they can't comfortably afford one. Mid Drives are almost always more expensive than Hubs.
My wife and I recently test rode some bikes back to back. I ended up getting a Tern GSD with a Bosch Cargo Line Mid Drive to haul our two kids around. I love it. It feels so simple, direct and natural. I can't believe how much I can haul and climb with motor. My wife, on the other hand, isn't great with gears and could have trouble with the Mid Drive. Especially trying to get going from a stop or coming to a hill. She decided she wanted a Velotric Fold 1 Plus with a 750W hub motor to get around town. It clicked better with her. I gave it a test ride myself. Throttles are fun, I thought to myself? Why not? But I was surprised how much I didn't like the Velotric. Even in torque sensing mode, the pedals felt disconnected. Power would come in with a lag and jarring surge. Then I would stop pedaling and there is another delay before power cuts out. I tried climbing the hill by our house with it and was surprised that motor wasn't stronger with the climb. It did climb it though. I found myself not wanting or even liking the throttle. All in all, my ride with Velotric felt disconnected and convoluted. A lot of controls, modes, and inputs, but nothing felt harmonious and direct.
So yeah, if you got the budget, and you already like cycling, then get a mid drive. No to either of those, then just get the hub motor. That said, test rides are free. So it doesn't hurt to give both types a demo.
stormdelta@reddit
The other reason to go direct drive is when you want reliability with minimal maintenance. I love how little I have to even think about maintaining my bike once built/tuned properly (DIY setup).
To be fair, that's a controller/design problem and not related to motor type. I have a direct drive hub with a torque sensor and there is zero lag when starting or stopping. All-Axle V3 motor paired with a CAv3 and phaserunner controller, so obviously higher end parts but still.
Brave-Designer-2080@reddit
I’ve seen 750w nominal ~1kw peak hub drive hill tests they barely handle 10% grade if they even make it up farther than a few hundred feet. Mid drive tests do better, see if there’s a video by electric bike report on those two bikes.
If you’re not climbing then all a mid drive really offers on a hardtail is pedal experience.
You’d need to maintain drivetrain more, it’s an annoying small cost. More wear on pads than hub drives which has regen braking
On the flip side, changing a hub tire is heavier and getting a new rear wheel will be difficult.
BassesNBikes@reddit
Here is an eMTB with a 250W mid-drive motor climbing the Slab.
I would love to see someone try this with a 750W hub motor because it would be hilarious.
S3ANbz@reddit
They're almost all the same for most use cases
Recent_Requirement88@reddit
I i agree with a lot of the other folks, mid drives do typically handle hills better. With that said, i own a Velotric Discover 3(which has a rear hub motor), and they made a significant update to the cassette with this model that gives it a much wider gear range, in this case a 11-40T cassette. There are several big hills in my area, and that 40T 'granny gear' allows this bike to climb steep hills easily. The mid-drive version is the Discover M, and I've heard it is a beast on hills!
BassesNBikes@reddit
A hub motor powers the rear wheel directly, so improving the cassette might make the 150W you add a little more efficient. A very minor change.
papertowelroll17@reddit
I have both mid drives and hub and I generally prefer hub fwiw. With mid drive I have had more mechanical issues.
SousVideDeezNuts@reddit
Mid-drives are way better for hills, it’s why the MTB models for a lot of e-bikes are middrives. Better torque and the fact that the energy goes through the chain and housing allows for better power. Downside is it has more parts which will always mean more maintenance. While newer mid models have reinforced chains (or belts) to mitigate the extra wear from mid drives, it’s still a thing. Changing flats is a small thing shouldn’t factor into your decision.
Best way to decide is to try both on your hills if you can.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
I would go so far as to say ALL eMTBs are mid-drive. It's not just for climbing but for the better balance and not being limited by having an extra 10 pounds hanging off your rear wheel which makes maneuvering more difficult and makes the tail end skittish.
heskey30@reddit
Yes, but if you're riding on paved hills in the city a strong hub-drive is more than sufficient. The only time my hub drive felt inadequate was when I was offroading in the mountains - that kind of trail can cause the hub drive to cut out because it doesn't have the low end torque. And for me city riding was the SF bay area. Getting an eMTB for riding on roads and commuting has the same energy as getting a jeep for going to the mall.
SousVideDeezNuts@reddit
Yeah the balance is going to be better. Also I feel like the new mid-drive motor that Aventon made in-house will be better and the complaints about reliability won’t apply as much for this model as they would for previous. I heard they’re using a reinforced chain for this model as well — not confirmed that though.
DragonLordDK@reddit
One of the main reasons for downtube battery and center motor is center of gravity. Also higher gear ratio and torque management. Downside is the higher maintenance cost.
Amazing_Moose906@reddit
If you want fitness also , go with the mid drive, if you just want to zip around go with a hub . I used a mid drive in a very mountainous area and it put me in good shape for sure . The difference is a hub can be exceeded on steep terrain , where a mid-drive really can't if you are in decent condition. I am now in the flat lands of Florida and use a analog gravel bike , my class 3 Bosch is just too fast but can still get a good workout, but again just to fast for me.
Coixe@reddit
Sorry man but it’s looking like mid drive is the way to go. Can you still return it?
Head-Owl7100@reddit
Dude smother him with kindness and ask to upgrade . If you're looking to spend more money and ask him to go ahead and accessorize it for you. Is there some reason he cant order you the bike you want?? You are going to have a longterm relationship with him as your mechanic most likely be nice say you still value his expertise but its a learning process for you and you want to do it right. Honesty. Genuineness and open communication all need to be practiced more. meditation helps with this and pretty much everything else.
Worried_Document8668@reddit
why didn't you testride both?
would have been the simplest option to make up your mind
Cup-Oh-Noodle@reddit (OP)
Didn’t have both only had the hub drive in my area
UsernameTaken1701@reddit
Well now you know why he really wanted to talk you into the hub drive. Return it if you can, and find another shop if there’s an option.
Everyone always chanting “only buy from your LBS” tend to forget the LBS is staffed by people who are motivated to sell you what they have in stock, which isn’t necessarily the best bike for you.
Worried_Document8668@reddit
well that's on you and the vedor then.
he talked you out of the one you wanted, because there was stock that he wanted to move and you didn't do your due dilligence in insisting on testrides when the mid version arrives in stock.
Or at least try another mid drive model to get an idea
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
Mid-drives are more complicated and do cause more drivetrain wear.
For VERY STEEP hills, they perform better than hub drives. For most locations in the US that arent seeing double digit gradients, hub drives work just fine. And for small hills, they are often faster on average than mid-drives.
How steep are your hills?
Cup-Oh-Noodle@reddit (OP)
I live in Seattle so relatively steep but not like a mountain?
tkallday333@reddit
I live in Seattle, been rocking a rear hub motor for the last 7 years, and it performs beautifully. You have nothing to worry about! I'd think more about mid-drive if you're looking for a slightly better pedal experience and to save a little weight, and get a bit more range. But in regards to hill performance when commuting or riding around town, hub works admirably in Seattle.
Proof_Profile_3952@reddit
I live in Auburn, Wa and ride in the Seattle area a lot. I think you’ll be fine with the mid drive. Especially with 750w and 100nm of torque. I have a mid drive as well but with 70nm and 250w. Just be sure to keep it in the right gears. Did you get to test out the level 4 adv on a hill before you purchased?
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
Hmm, for many parts of Seattle a mid-drive might make more sense. Doesn't sound like he did you any favors. Have you ridden your commute?
If you decide you are unhappy with the REC, you should insist on full credit towards the ADV you were going to purchase initially. Just don't wait too long.
Living_In_Wonder@reddit
I have 4500 miles on my hub drive. No complaints on my end other than I do wonder about having a step thru instead.
zeizkal@reddit
Just make due, get your use out of it. Or resale it and take a loss. As long as it gets the job done I dont feel like its that big of a deal. Sometimes we make dude purchases, a lesson for the rest of our lives that make us more savvy the next time around.
RockHead-MA@reddit
Lots of strong opinions, expressed as gospel. As usual in life, there are tradeoffs, positives and negatives to both hub and mid-drives. A mid-drive transmits power through the bike's drivetrain components, resulting in faster wear on the chain and cassette. The shop tech wasn't BSing you. It costs more upfront. In return, you get the drivetrain amplifying the motor's output, most notably on hills and during acceleration. Is that trade-off between cost and performance truly important to you? You should certainly test ride both to help yourself decide.
I own 3 hub-drive, low-watt, low-torque ebikes. That's by choice, as I commute for fitness as much as anything else, looking to defer a second heart attack as long as possible. I WANT to work when I ride, for cardiovascular fitness. I also wanted the most analog bike experience possible, as I used to ride a road like a lot. So I specifically don't want a motorcycle-like ride; I didn't even want a throttle. My 350W, 50 NM hub drives give me all the performance I desire. And they were affordable. YMMV
TBH, I considered my first ebike purchase to be an extended test ride. I wasn't sure if I would like it. I wasn't sure if I would take to it as a regular commuter option. I have. So I bought one for my partner so she and I can ride together. Then I bought a second, better bike for myself, about 50% more expensive than my first bike. I could sell my first one and recoup most of the difference. Maybe, maybe not...
BodSmith54321@reddit
Electric bike report had the rev beating the adv in their hill climb test.
lennydee156@reddit
I purchased 5 years ago the ride1 up 500 series just sold it . The e bike was used and had about 4k on it . Used it daily for 3 years absolutely no problems with it. Ride 1up proves to be a excellent company.
Humble_Key_4259@reddit
I have both. If I want to climb almost anything I go for the mid drive. There's no substitute for power PLUS gearing unless you're talking some serious wattage.
Claytonread70@reddit
To enjoy a mid drive, you HAVE TO shift your gears, it won’t be pleasurable unless you do!
joeg26reddit@reddit
Not exactly true. Most mid drives have different power levels that can act as a pseudo throttle. Some have actual throttles.
christo19862010@reddit
any tips on this ? i have been changing the gears on mine as per gradient , down shifting before i get to lights etc , but to me it still feels lacklustre
Sillycommisioner987@reddit
You will love the level 4 rec. it’s got a 750watt motor and regenerative braking to regain power on those hills. I’m planning on purchasing a level 4 myself.
Express_Position5624@reddit
depends, if it was torque sensor mid drive, you can't ghost peddle up the hill, most hubs are cadance sensor and so you can
Hubs are not great from stand still but once you are going, it's fine, much prefer a hub
ClintBX@reddit
How many watts did your end up getting? Anything below 500w is insufficient for dealing with hills. If your wallet out with a weak sauce motor, I can understand your regret. A mid drive, even a weaker one has more versatility because you can get further reductions through your bike's derailleur system, which can be even friendlier to the motor and reduce wear and test on the motor. Whereas a geared hub is limited by the 5:1 gear reduction and servicing that can be more of hassle than servicing a mid drive, especially when you have to lift out your wheel. Sure, you might have to replace a chain and maybe your freewheel more often but that's actually constitutively easier
hakapes@reddit
If it works uphill, use it.
I looked up both bikes.
For taking you from A to B both will be good, as both are very powerful, with 700W peak, and 80 and 100 Nm.
I think there would be more difference if you buy a bike with Bosch or Yamaha, then between hub or middrive if Shengyi.
If you want lower hassle for maintenance, probably the hub motor was the better choice.
RipOk3600@reddit
They are a pain to change the tubes on though because you have to deal with the motor in the way as well
hakapes@reddit
I have been using puncture-proof tyres for almost 20 years. I get a flat maybe once in every five or six years with a huge nail only.
For commuter bikes, puncture-proof tyres are a must.
I use mainly Schwalbe Marathon, but you can also find Continental and even CST offers at least mildly puncture-proof tyres now.
The common argument against puncture-proof tyres is that they are less efficient, but the efficiency loss that you get on a bike that is already 25 kg and has a 750 W motor on it is negligible.
https://www.schwalbe.com/fr/Marathon-Mondial-MARATHON-MONDIAL
RipOk3600@reddit
Honestly stop looking at the reviews after the fact. I say this because I’m so guilty of it too, buyers remorse is real.
Instead take your bike for a ride, go feel it, test it out and see what it can do for you. If there are things you can (and want) to change on it work that out and make it yours
Maximum-Afternoon222@reddit
Hub drive with a 20" wheel is good for hills. On a full size wheel, forget it.
christo19862010@reddit
i have a hub and a just bought a mid , so far i prefer the hub for commuting , it feels way more assisted but i feel the mid might grow on me , as much as i like the hub i don’t trust it to last , feels more like something that i can have some temporary fun on where as my mid with the bafang feels like a bike
funcentric@reddit
Mid drive will be better for torque if you’ré starting mid hill. If you’ré at the bottom going up, it’ll be just fine and you’re likely saving a bit.
However, mid drives are almost always torque sensored which you may like or hate. I personally hate it because it reminds me I’m riding a bicycle. More info on my YouTube channel about the difference if that interests you. Same name as here.
capt_shitacular@reddit
loving my velotric it's got a variable sensor and I too hate the torque sensor I want the bike to go when I'm pedaling not to have to put too much energy into it honestly I really just prefer a throttle but every once in a while I want to use my legs a bit
BirdSpiritual5502@reddit
I am choosing between the two. I particularly want the porter on hills. I’m going to go with the hub drive. I don’t think the mid drive is necessary.
Snarkosaurus99@reddit
Go ride up a hill. Was it what you hoped for? If so, you’re all good