What would be the state of NATO and the regional risks in the Balkans in case of a US withdrawal?
Posted by Worried-Owl-9198@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 152 comments
Original-Hall-9832@reddit
Nothing bad will happen in the Balkans. 99% countries are tired of fighting and when they fought, fighting was done on behalf/sponsored by their sugar daddies (Germany, UK, US eth). So if these sugar daddies have their own internal problems we're all good. Kinda.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Nah man, US and Germany did not tell us to take up guns. Balkans did it themselves.
Original-Hall-9832@reddit
Yeah right. West Germany actively armed Croatia and Slovenia by smuggling weapons from East Germany before they declard independence. Furthermore they were the first to recognize the breakaway republics, thus directly causing the civil war in former Yugoslavia.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Germany does not share a border with Croatia. I guess Hungary was also on board...
Original-Hall-9832@reddit
Sharing a border in this case is irreverent. Germany's economic, political and social goals were accomplished.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Yeah man, all the world against Serbia. As if economy of Germany relies on Balkans.
ChestCharacter1157@reddit
Well we all had dictators or autocrats or military dictators in our governments, what did anyone expect
Ujemegaz@reddit
Speak for yourself, we had freedom and democracy đ
zavait@reddit
LOL It's fuckin funny reading serb comments on how Kosovo would fall in hours. Serb had everything in the 90s but the myth about heroic serbs fell apart pretty fast. Couldn't do shit in Croatia, got expelled, they wanted whole Bosnia and expecet Bosnia to fall in days but then US saving their asses in 95, a very poorly armored Albanians and Kosovars giving resistence and had little success. I dunno why they think Kosovo would fall in hours, with equipment that they're buying from USA and Turkey, those Bayraktar and FPV drones, Serb weaponry would get cooked pretty bad.
1970ivan@reddit
America helped everyone but Serbs in the 90s. Germany gave troops and weapons to Croatia, 'retired' cia americans helped plan operation Storm which was a prelude for their Desert Storm in Iraq, they bombed Serbs in Bosnia and trained Albanians and supplied them before 1999, both Albanian troops and nato special forces attacked Serbs in Kosovo, completely illegally. Germany and Bulgaria had their 'operation horseshoe' thing for support.
Kosovo would not fall without America because Serbia is weak militarily, maybe the north would go back to Serbia but that's it. After that who knows, maybe Serbia finally gets to join EU if France pushes for that because the biggest problem (Kosovo) would be over.
zavait@reddit
What about America bombing Bosnian army and Bosnian weaponry when advancing towards Banja Luka. You guys are so silly, thinking you're brave but all you've shown were war crimes across balkan.
1970ivan@reddit
What about american ambassador Zimmerman urging Alija Izetbegovic to withdraw his signature from the agreement all 3 sides made before the war, thus getting to war? And then of course ending the war on terms that they wanted, not because they liked bosnian Serbs but because they had their reasons.
And other sides showed what, moral restraint and higher moral ground? Canadians had to fight Croat troops to keep Serbs alive in one village, bosnian muslims sent women and children on ortodox Christmas in Kravice to lure out the Serbian families outside then the Bosniak army killed them all, Croats and Bosniaks killed each other as well, Albanians blew up a Nis Expres bus full of civilians and did ethnic cleansing of everyone (including albanians) who did not support KLA not to mention what they did in 2004 with another ethnic cleansing and church destruction (you have on youtube) while nato troops watched.
We are all the same shit here and we need the average IQ to raise by 30 points if we want to be normal because right now we are corrupt retards full of nationalist hate and every bigger power uses that to achieve their goals here.
Senior-Profession711@reddit
Grok's response to your comment>
What really happened near Banja Luka in 1995:
In the autumn of 1995 (especially September), the Croatian Army (HV), HVO, and the Army of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina (ARBiH) launched offensives such as Operation Mistral 2 and Operation Sana 95. They advanced toward Banja Luka, the main city of Republika Srpska, and inflicted heavy defeats on the Army of Republika Srpska (VRS â Bosnian Serbs).
At the same time, NATO (led by the United States) carried out Operation Deliberate Force â an air campaign against the Bosnian Serbs (VRS). They bombed Serbian targets: artillery positions, ammunition depots, command centers, radar and anti-aircraft systems around Sarajevo, and also near Banja Luka (for example, Tomahawk missiles and precision strikes on the Lisina radar near Banja Luka on September 10).
NATOâs goal was to weaken the VRS after the Srebrenica massacre and the Markale bombings, to protect the âsafe zones,â and to force the Serbs to the negotiating table (which led to the Dayton Agreement). NATO did not bomb Bosnian (ARBiH) or Croatian forces, nor their weaponry. On the contrary â their bombing helped the advance of the HV/ARBiH/HVO forces by destroying Serbian air defenses and logistics. The US stopped further fighting between the armies in order to control how the war would end and to secure conditions for negotiations.
ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit
I sincerely think they will lose more territory if they start a war with Kosovo ,they were extremely bad fighting militia ,imagine a real army with American weapons
anonumousJx@reddit
Serbian security forced pretty much wiped out the OVK by 1999. The only reason FRY lost the war was because of NATO intervention.
The OVK was suffering losses at a ratio of 3 to 1 or something
ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit
They were killing civilians ,they were not fighting an army but now things have changed ,Kosovo Forces are training with NATO ,their equipment is far better and they are prepared now ,in my opinion would be literally impossible for Serbia to succeed in Kosovo rn even if NATO leaves.
Aioli_Tough@reddit
Not considering the fact that itâs much easier to defend.
In Kosovo a lot of people didnât join the KLA in fear of reprisal by Serb forces on their families, now the exact opposite motivation exists, to join otherwise be subject to Serbian tyranny.
The KLA no matter what these guys say, was a guerrilla force armed with 1970s Chinese tech, and they managed to gain footholds in actual ground invasions in Koshare and Pashtrik, let alone the pockets of resistance spread throughout.
So no, the KLA wasnât âwiped outâ, in fact, it had the highest number of members during those times, reaching about 25k.
If the commenter believes Serbia has the appetite for an offensive war against a well armed Kosovo, when theyâve cried over their (when compared to losses pertaining a ground invasion) minuscule losses in 1999.
This is without talking about regional and intl. help. Which would be overwhelmingly in Kosovaâs side.
The comments made by this person are akin to Russiaâs â3 day SMOâ. It might be you bite off more than you can chew.
ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit
True even the losses ratio were way lower then he said and taking into account also the 20+ tanks KLA destroyed ,they were not doing that bad with possibilities they had ,now it would be a complete different story ,Kosovo Forces training with NATO and participating in international mission makes them strong af.
Gazdanadam@reddit
We'd steamroll the Balkans and create Ottoman Empire 2.0
That aside, probably the only thing that would end up happening is Kosovo getting invaded by Serbia.
Tiny-Mulberry-2114@reddit
Either way not gonna happen. It's not up to Trump if they exit NATO
darkopetrovic@reddit
Mate a lot of shit thatâs not up to trump and heâs wants is happening.
Tiny-Mulberry-2114@reddit
Sure but this doesn't work like that.
CapOk4599@reddit
I wouldn't be so sure. He will find a loophole.
Pomegranate2026@reddit
Neither did any of the other dozens of actions that this administration took that legally required votes from congress and were just executed away.
Proof-Ad62@reddit
100%. He might need a 2/3rds majority to leave nato but he can still tell all his generals and such to no longer fight on our behalf. To effectively withdraw from any organizations, joined training missions, actual engagements, etc.Â
ManVSReddit@reddit
Name one thing.Â
PrudentCaterpillar74@reddit
How about the current war with Iran?
Dvokrilac@reddit
Actually it is,, that law that proxibit an president to get USA from Nato is unconstitutional and Trump can get by it.
lukspero@reddit
This is a very random thing to lie about
Dvokrilac@reddit
Its not me who say that, an article in Norwegian newspaper came out yesterday about how Trump can get around that law.https://www.dagbladet.no/nyheter/ekspert-kan-trolig-forlate-nato/84453403
lukspero@reddit
Quote from the article
The article claims that Trump could possibly challenge the law but would probably lose.
You claim that there is no doubt about the law being unconstitutional
Big difference
the_reeee@reddit
I think either germany/ france would replace them. The us isn't all that its made up to be.
No-Penalty-7506@reddit
Replace the US with what there is no military industry complex comparable to the US in NATO. If you are talking about military power Germanyâs army is a joke and Franceâs is too small to be able to stop say Russia. There is no US alternative thatâs why despite trump everybody is trying to wait him out and not burn bridges.
CapOk4599@reddit
A lot of the material for the US MIC comes from Europe. The gun on the Abrams tank is German for example. Rheinmetall is the fastest growing military manufacturer in the world right now. We also have SAAB among others.
the_reeee@reddit
For now* Europe is somewhat capable of defending itself. They will never be able to reach the scale of the US, however they don't need to. They are currently going through a military buildup just like the rest of the world.
No-Penalty-7506@reddit
But the rest of the world has been getting ready for much longer and faster dumping money into an army doesnât give you an army we saw how effective the saudi army is. NATO without can get to a level where it can protect itself in 5 to 10 years but we donât have that time if Russia will start attacking the Baltic states and Poland after that it will happen in the next five years. I hate Trump as much as the next guy but in his first term when he said donât trade with Russia and start increasing your military spending everybody laughed at him. If we had acted back then Russia wouldnât even be a problem today.
the_reeee@reddit
All im gonna say to that is 'three day special military operation'
Hopet28@reddit
The thing is that no one from Russia ever called it a 'three day special military operation', it were the EU officials that were spreading this made up nonsense from the beginning.
No-Penalty-7506@reddit
Yeah but that was with the Biden administration today we have a Putin fanboy in the White House.
EnesAkhan@reddit
Okay anything can be solved with given enough time nd oppurtunity . Even if Germany's army is nonexistent (thank you Merkel) nd France's isnt big enough or England's is pretty much a rusting one they got economical power to cover those issues with time BUT Europe's main issue is nd always been there being litterally no oil/gas production happening in the continent . Its litterally non existing. There isnt a good source . The moment both America , Iran nd Russia cuts it off there will be nothing left to sustain their demands . Where will they look then? A war crippled middle-east (where mostly they themselves were the cause) . A heavily Amsrican bound Gulf countries . Azerbaijan? (Which has only one possible route nd a route thats not enough)
Nah man Europe would collapse before long . They cant handle such pressure like that . It would be a one sided beating without spilling a single drop of blood
gareth_gahaland@reddit
Get Russia past Ukraine first, what bullshit.
No-Penalty-7506@reddit
Russia is playing for time dumbass and itâs working Ukraine gets its weapons and ammunition from the US with European money Trump is going to cut the US out of that equation whatâs gonna stop Russia after Ukraine has no ammunition. Do you think they are gonna demobilize or find a new enemy
ThingCandid9553@reddit
You really think US arms manufacturers are just gonna sit back and let Trump mess up those hundreds of billions in contracts Europeâs funding for Ukraine?
No-Penalty-7506@reddit
What? I didnât say they are gonna lose money they are not stopping production. They are gonna sell it to the American army or Trump will sell it at an inflated price to someone else.
ThingCandid9553@reddit
Thatâs not really how it works. Outside the US, countries donât typically spend hundreds of billions or trillions on weapons unless thereâs an active war going on.
No-Penalty-7506@reddit
Thatâs where the 200 billion dollar increase to the armyâs budget comes in handy :)
ThingCandid9553@reddit
Again, thatâs not how it works.
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lovinGamin@reddit
The talks here really tells how far away some people about state of armies in eurozone
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit (OP)
There is no way their budgets and military capabilities can sustain such a burden.
the_reeee@reddit
No, it wouldn't be on the same scale. But just 2% of Germany's gdp would be the same as the entire russia's military spending rn. So they are still most certainly capable of defending themselves.
Soruce: Dont remember.
holyrs90@reddit
Thats copium
New_Enthusiasm9053@reddit
1% of Germany's GDP around 60 billion USD. 3% is 180 billion which is approximately Russias wartime spending today. Germany has commited to 3.5% and the US typically spends 5% during peacetime.Â
So no, not copium. Germany alone would flatten Russia if it decided too. And then there's the rest of the EU.
pretenzioeser_Elch@reddit
Not nessecarily. The Bundeswehr didn't even have loitering ammunition (suicide drones) until recently. It has the 3.5% funding now but it didn't have it since very long and certain capabilities are only built up over time.
New_Enthusiasm9053@reddit
Sure, it would be rough initially but if Germany actually went to war a lot of those capabilities would be built up much faster.Â
And Russia no longer has the ability to beat Germany before German industry can get going.Â
Bear in mind WW2 people went from biplanes and cloth skinned monoplanes to jet fighters in 6 years.Â
Ukraine too has shown significant technological innovation in these few years and they're economically much, much weaker and started with even more dated equipment than Germany has today.
MegaMB@reddit
Not really, although Germany would very much not be alone. We can already significantly nuke Russia from Paris.
Also, it's important to know what kind of Russia would we face. So far, Ukraine has spent more than a year without US financial backing, and that situation can likely last for a few more years.
State of Russia after the war, especially of it's armed forces, may very well be pretty grim.
Delicious-Gap1744@reddit
Collectively a European coalition 100% could replace the US presence in Europe.
The industrial capacity and GDP(PPP) of the rest of NATO is greater than that of the US. Population is greater as well. It is 100% feasible. On day 1 NATO would be significantly weakened, but still much stronger than Russia.
Then, given it's a crisis, it'll take a few years to start matching some of the capabilities lost by the US withdrawing. Primarily logistical capabilities, air-tankers and the like.
In terms of arms production, I mean I doubt the US would stop selling us weapons, that's just good business, them withdrawing from NATO doesn't inherently include an arms embargo. And Europe is very much so building up its military industry, it's just a process that takes years. The EU collectively is a power relative to the US, and could thus have a military relative in power as well, with years of buildup.
Today the rest of NATO is "just" the second most well funded military in the world, after the US, and well ahead of China and Russia.
SoulEkko@reddit
While the US yeeting out of NATO is a hit to the budget itself, it's not like it's a 10 times budget loss or something like that. The rest of the countries combined will still have about half a trillion total budget, roughly half of the US military budget.
That would still make NATO the second largest military spender on Earth, and plenty of people want a piece of that pie.
Jean-Luc-1701@reddit
Putting Germany or France next to the US in military terms is like comparing someone who does boxing for fun to Mike Tyson in his prime. Yeah both can throw punches, but thatâs where the similarity ends.
the_reeee@reddit
Yes. But as i've commented before, they would still be capable of defending themselves. Which is as far as im aware the point of NATO?
Jean-Luc-1701@reddit
The point of NATO is to defend any of the countries in NATO. Germany or France really do not have the ability to project power across borders same as US.
New_Enthusiasm9053@reddit
They don't need too? The only viable enemy for a Europe only NATO is Russia and it's on their borders. Germany can project power onto the Russian border perfectly fine because Poland would help them do so.
megablademe23@reddit
romania will conquer the entire europe
Dull_Cucumber_3908@reddit
There would be no NATO and EU would switch to a common EU army.
bevko_cyka@reddit
Canada exists?
Morichannn@reddit
Canada has more chances than Turkey at this point.
Noob_Master69699@reddit
Hopefully that never happens.
FriendshipRemote130@reddit
one can dream
Dull_Cucumber_3908@reddit
I believe in Trump. He has 3 more years ahead in order to achieve that and be remembered as the US president who managed to turn EU into a real country đđđ
anonumousJx@reddit
I used to pray for times like this
PayAdministrative436@reddit
To die in a ditch in a forest in Kosovo? Would you really abandon your comfy life in Vienna for that?
ChestCharacter1157@reddit
Nobody want another war, especially not if a lot of other countries are involved, it is a waiting game with Kosovo, basically Serbia is waiting for their economy to collaps, their people to leave and population to get much older while keeping the population of serbs steady and in 50y ..... maybe something could happen
Serbia doesn t have military nor economy for another war, and let not even talk about amount of people that all Balkan countries are losing
anonumousJx@reddit
I live in Serbia and without NATO when push comes to shove we're not going to be the ones in ditches đđ»
Far-One-5647@reddit
Sometimes people forget that Germany fought 2 world wars against the âworldâ and almost won. I believe an european army is real and necessary to secure Europe against the US, Russia, China.
ChestCharacter1157@reddit
I do not think that you know how many forces Europe have, Europe have more ground vehicles and land equipment then Russia and more then USA or China as well has more soldiers then USA and Russia
The only problem with Europe it is not integrated like US, Chinese or Russian military
The only equipment Europe lack is aircraft carriers, submarines and nuclear weapons
PieBright8211@reddit
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit (OP)
Shhh, be good
ChestCharacter1157@reddit
That is like expecting someone with impulsive disorder not to press a red button
ahahahah đ€Łđ€Ł
cikeZ00@reddit
đ„șđđ
hopper_froggo@reddit
Bro is collecting all the country balls
WereStillInBosniaWhy@reddit
Infinity Stones
Global-Training-6973@reddit
This time we will be ready. Can never let our guard down for you serbian dogs. Look whst you have done with the land you DO have, poor ass dictatorship communist puppet state. Death to Serbia and all the parasites that live there, you can come to Kosova, but you will leave in bodybags.
azuratios@reddit
Serbia will expand without NATO, Kosovo will fall in a few hours and the Balkans will form the Second Serbian Empire. The Vucician Empire will eventually restore its historical borders, according to prestigious historian Jovanka Jolic, from Lisboa to Vladivostok.
Global-Training-6973@reddit
Kosovo will never be occupied by serbia, but I would LOVE to see Turkey slap the bacon grease out of Greece đđđ
No_Designer_8203@reddit
Not occupied, but liberated.
erionei@reddit
Im sure the 95% Albanian population would perceive an intense feeling of liberation
No_Designer_8203@reddit
They're citizens of Serbia just like me. Tbh nothing would change for them, Kosovo would remain largely autonomous. Trump is destroying the US empire, humuliating it. Let's see what happens this year.
erionei@reddit
I am not a citizen of Serbia, I was never registered as such. The republic of Serbia is not even aware of my existence and Iâd very much like for it to stay that way.
No_Designer_8203@reddit
Nothing will change, no need to worry.
Global-Training-6973@reddit
You delusional serbs crack me up hahaha
EarlGreyKv@reddit
Turkey will never assault any of its neighbours unprovoked, you people heavily underestimate how much Turks respect the sovereignty of their neighbours and peace they have with them. Also, the country values its position of balance very much, since Turkey is one of the very few countries in the world that can sit down and have a deal with anyone.
You see RTE stirring up shit for internal short term political gains or for international bargaining chips and you lose your fucking minds over it.
mikewazoski59@reddit
What's in it for you, American?
ThingCandid9553@reddit
Heâs most likely Albanian.
deviendrais@reddit
RIP Jovanka JoliÄ. She would've love to see all the shit with Trump and Epstein and that her theories weren't as crazy as everyone thought
fretnbel@reddit
Holy shit. Is she dead? She was totally bonkers but very entertaining
More_Ad_5142@reddit
They assasinated her because she knew too much đ„č
No_Designer_8203@reddit
Because she dared to speak.
bobo6u89@reddit
What about the galaxy?
Pale-Seaworthiness80@reddit
Nothing will happen. Turkey will just hold a press conference and everyone will pipe down.
Various-Mousse848@reddit
And Greece will reconquer Constantinople.
ManVSReddit@reddit
Serbia will never be able to keep that land occupied even if somehow they invaded it.Â
Letâs forget the fact that both Kosovo and Albania today are not like they were in 1998 and invasion will be costly in troops, costly enough to topple governments. Letâs also forget the fact that the desire of the Albanians to defend is significantly higher than that of Serbs to invade. Ultimately , though, I canât see many Serbs moving in that area to live, and unless they move back itâs a complete waste of resources to invade it.Â
mgalexray@reddit
Serbia will use their white eagles to carry nuclear bombs over mount Kop into Kosovo and Albania and make it a new Holy Serbian Empire
FunLocation3218@reddit
hahaha sure buddy
Inevitable_Motor_685@reddit
The Lips Empire goes crazy
No_Designer_8203@reddit
All this but without Vucic. We will make Rome great again! It is your duty as a Greek to help us.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Italy and Germany would fill in the void. Just like the old times. Austria, UK and Turkey as well.
Inevitable_Motor_685@reddit
Italy and Germany, instead of countries like France or smth?
Ujemegaz@reddit
You might have a point. France tried to get a foothold in the Balkans as well. History finds a way to repeat.
MegaMB@reddit
"Austria" lmfao. Nop, not Austria, and you forgot France and Poland in the list. Likely Romania too.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Switzerland also.
MegaMB@reddit
Lmfao, nop.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Yes.
ZemlyaNovaya@reddit
Obviously Russia would benefit the most. Without USA in NATO, Russia would feel emboldened against Baltics and Turkey, and potentially Poland long-term. Belarusian border incursions against Poland would be frequent. Baltic sea would be a mess.
The alliance would also lose a lot of cohesion due to Germany/Turkey/France all chasing different interests and UK kind of not being interested in military affairs at all.
thatgamer2111@reddit
Emboldened against baltics sure but turkiye? Russia would have no interest and capability in fighting turkiye.
ZemlyaNovaya@reddit
As long as Russia in one form or another exists they will have interest in Turkish lands. Bosphorus â Tsargrad, is their â1000 year dreamâ, and their demands for land in Ardahan/Kars region is literally why we joined NATO in the first place.
Their Mediterranean base in Syria was a long term plan and investment, and it failed irreversibly. Who is to say they wonât look this way for a new port once they see a weakened Turkey?
tolmaenjoyer@reddit
None of the lands you have mentioned are traditionally considered parts of turkish heartland. Constantinople a century ago had sizeable Christian population
merhababenatlas@reddit
hundreds of years pass, i think it is now and i thought we were turkified armenian and greeks ? what is the problem here
ZemlyaNovaya@reddit
No you donât understand 570 years is not enough đ€Ą
ThingCandid9553@reddit
The same Russia thatâs been getting embarrassed in Ukraine? Theyâve only taken about 1% of territory in five years and burned through over a million troops doing it. Itâs wild people still think theyâd stand a chance against even just the European NATO countries.
More_Ad_5142@reddit
I agree. Russian scare is way too much exaggerated.
JRJenss@reddit
Yup. Russia has overplayed its hand and shown to everybody it's a paper tiger. It can't do anything against Europe with or without the US on the European side - although the US withdrawing from NATO, is a fairytale. It would be against their own interest. It's as simple as that.
China is the next or rather current global superpower. Russia with its economy being smaller than the Italian one, and with all the losses suffered in Ukraine, is just not an important player anymore. Turkey and Brasil will soon surpass it as well. All in all, the greatest importance Russia has for Europe concerns its internal, increasingly chaotic situation, which could easily evolve into a civil war. That would be really bad, not only for Europe, but for all Russian neighbors...at least potentially.
More_Ad_5142@reddit
Yes, if Russia canât get pass Ukraine in 4 years, imagine if it has to take on Poland, Turkey, Finland, Romania/Bulgaria, especially all of them coordinating against it, them being official allies unlike Ukraine. It will be so outstretched in the Baltics and Black Sea that it would probably seek a ceasefire within a year. As you pointed it out, the real danger is Russia destabilizing so bad right next to Europe, importing its troubles into its neighborhood (massive immigration for example).
JRJenss@reddit
Exactly. Losing control over the nuclear stockpiles too in the chaos.
More_Ad_5142@reddit
THAT would be DANGEROUS!
RestaurantBoring417@reddit
Nothing because Serbia is a paper tiger, even without NATO they will get jumped by Western Europe and Turkey if they try to lay a hand on Bosnia or Kosovo. The biggest risk would be a Greek/Turkish, but I don't think Erdogan is insane enough to invade an actual country that is not a failed state like Syria or Libya
Dazzling-Session-181@reddit
Please, get this f-ing plague out of Europe, please, God! I just cannot... Iran has officially warned us that we are a legitimate military target for participating in the illegal terrorist attacks against them and our f-ers are acting as if nothing is wrong and are giving our CIVIL!!! airport for military use of the Americans, breaking the Constitution FOR THE 100TH TIME IN THE LAST FEW YEARS and are literally lying to the face of the public. NATO is a plague, it has always been. It is an ill-conceived, evil-bearing alliance that needs to be dissolved yesterday and given as an example in the history books as the moment of rock-bottom of humanity. Enough!
ZAWS20XX@reddit
why would it continue existing? It's only reason for existing is to do the Americans' bidding. The US don't wanna use NATO anymore, then no more NATO
Alternative-Prune318@reddit
People are acting like EU does not have the resources to fund its own wars. We just chose not to because it was cheaper for us to be financed by a country with no health plan, extraordinary student loans, an army of unemployed and homeless ⊠while we invested into health, free universities and are effectively able to house majority of homeless that want that.
But now that the table turns I guess we will start funding our own military.
New_Parking9991@reddit
For balkans situation not change much really.
For countries bordering Russia though it could be quite scary.
TheoKondak@reddit
Nah, the current situation is scary where they kbow the us is compromat and actively working to help ruzzia
Nazgul_1994@reddit
Well we saw what happened with the fallout of USSR. Nothing. If anything, tensions and going back to cold war and divide happened with unnecessary NATO expansion. Also being in NATO doesnt mean you cant have wars or did we forgot Turkey and Greece.
Ok_Eagle_3079@reddit
If USA withdrawals NATO can become an extention of the EU like the eurozone or shengen or the customs union. Most probably Ukraine will be rushed in NATO.
MainSeaworthiness115@reddit
Iâd expect the first to happen would be Bosnia to split into its three respective parts and RS to join Serbia proper.
CormundCrowlover@reddit
Wow, two Russian neighbours joined Nato very recently and yet somehow this was not a reason for war, despite one of them, Finland, was literally invaded because how it was a threat to Petersburg?
Sufficient_Prompt888@reddit
They would get free American equipment when they leave the bases they operate in NATO countries.
yasinburak15@reddit
There wonât a abolishment. More like current status quo, the most Trump can do is pull troops out of Europe and not participate in article 5 or drills. But full exit no.
NoReportedTaxes@reddit
Nato would keep existing but instead of being US-centrig it would become Europe-centrig.
There is a chance that Turkeyâs Global domanance might get buffed since they would be the new âtop dogâ.
1970ivan@reddit
It would be pretty stupid of europeans to let turkey have a say in their defense strategy
samvarr@reddit
Why?
According-Fun-4746@reddit
reclaiming lost territoryÂ
Stormrage44@reddit
Without US to ballance Europeans, one of them would shout some other's prince and NATO would be fighting itself let alone Russians in a few years.
Altruistic-Board5322@reddit
Other than some minor war crimes between everyone, nothing special,đ
Stormrage44@reddit
Some small misunderstandings and joking around among fellas
Worried-Owl-9198@reddit (OP)
LMAO
Hopeful_Addition7834@reddit
If Hungary is taken out of the NATO, then the NATO is split.
If Russia takes control of Ukraine, and sends help to Serbia, it is like that.
Orban is a genius how he managed to deal with the situation. (USA doesn't interfere too much if there are Russian and Chinese assets, and those two don't interfere too much if there are USA assets.)
So yeah, all Western propaganda aside, he dealt with this balance wisely. Even for himself to not be shot.
LibertyChecked28@reddit
For those that don't border Turkey, virtually nothing.
For those who do Erdogan might need to do a will skill check to keep it within his pants.
ThickCaterpillar9867@reddit
Russia will join NATO and the US will be the bad guy
Mminas@reddit
I understand many people don't share this sentiment but I firmly believe that the day the US withdraws is the end of NATO.
I've glimpsed behind the curtain as a conscript and I guarantee you that the US runs this show.
SlowCommunication259@reddit
I share your view! But NATO may be dead, but not its structures. The remaining countries can still form an alliance and massively speedup military development to replace lost capabilities.
But the angry orange can not leave without an approval from congress.
LastHomeros@reddit
Well France and Germany have been vocal about creating a European army, well, they would have it.
sjedinjenoStanje@reddit
The EU/rump NATO would make some sort of accommodation with China, Russia and Iran. In fact, European NATO not allowing the US to use its bases was a rather clear concession to China.
Protobugarin@reddit