With the rise of small drones and the search for anti-drone countermeasures, do you think we could see a resurgence of shotguns like 10 gauge or larger, adapted specifically for anti-drone use? Might the larger capacity be useful in this case?
Posted by No-Bother6856@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 30 comments
quickscopemcjerkoff@reddit
10 gauge could be useful for net rounds. Larger diameter can hold more. But in terms of power the 12 gauge has more than enough. What’s needed is finding the best type of projectiles and giving soldiers a lot of training to give them a chance to actually hit the drones.
FimmishWoodpecker@reddit
Shotguns are a band-aid on a chainsaw wound. Energy and signal disruption weapons are what’s going to stop drones
GrahminRadarin@reddit
And the permanent solution is the return of the punt gun.
FimmishWoodpecker@reddit
So, we’re gonna draft Kentucky Ballistics?
homerthethief@reddit
that dude almost offed himself with his own 50 cal in an accident. Gun youtubers are probably 50/50 dangerous to your own side and the enemy
justaheatattack@reddit
Kentucky Ballistics was my rap crew.
No-Bother6856@reddit (OP)
Agreed there, conventional shotguns seem entirely not up to the task. But what about specialized large bore shells fired from some sort of vehicle mounted weapon? Like hyper-localized air defense.
FimmishWoodpecker@reddit
The advancement in shooting them down is going to have nothing to do with the firearm. The optics and tracking systems on those firearms are what’s going to doing the majority or the work, especially with high speed drones humans could never track. Also, you have to think about cost. Drones cost basically nothing. Firing $10,000 of ammunition or a few hundred thousand dollar missile at every drone is going to deplete our stockpiles super quickly.
Great_White_Sharky@reddit
The type of drones you will be shooting down with a simple shotgun will not need 10k $ of ammo. Might as well say that machine guns are useless because you need 100s of rounds of ammo to kill a single soldier, thats just how warfare works
mrm00r3@reddit
Mini-CWIS with a SPAS-12 in the back of a pickup truck is still technically a technical.
John_cCmndhd@reddit
"Technically a technical, the best kind of technical"
atioc@reddit
Canister shells?
RickGabriel@reddit
From what I've been reading lately is that counter drone tech is leaning towards signal jamming and simple visual obstructions like smoke, and finally just digging a hole or hiding in concrete structures to elude thermal sensors. If the drone can see you it can kill you, so your options are to wait until the battery dies, or hide.
Besides that, yeah I think in an extreme situation where you can get a shot off, a heavy 12GA would be my choice.
WideResult6111@reddit
But most of the latest ones have thermal, rendering smokes useless
Dalek_Chaos@reddit
I asked a similar question in the comments of a post on here and was told how stupid I was for asking. A month later I was still getting shit on occasionally just for asking.
Quarterwit_85@reddit
I think it’s more likely we’ll get an updated, rimless 12 gauge round. But that would still be surprising.
Lu1zBeast@reddit
No, case in point, go shoot a 10 gauge and see how accurately you can take some followup shots. There's a reason everyone is settling on 12 ga 2-3/4 shells
No-Bother6856@reddit (OP)
My understanding is that 10 gauge has mostly died for hunting because for most applications, 3 inch 12 gauge is enough and 3.5 inch 12 eats into whatever niche it still had left.
So its not so much that 10 gauge isn't usable as it is that there is no point. But with drones, my though is, well now there is something larger shells might actually do that a 12 can't.
For reference, I hunt waterfowl with 3.5 inch 12 gauge and it does kick but its by no means horrendous.
Lu1zBeast@reddit
That's good insight, I've never shot a 10ga, but I have shot 3.5in 12ga shells. 3.5s suck to shoot and that level of recoil would not help when trying to rapidly engage drones. The best man portable solution is a whole squad engaging with shotguns or the new 5.56 & 7.62 drone killer rounds (from my experience).
a-Snake-in-the-Grass@reddit
3.5" 12ga is a lot worse than a 10ga in terms of felt recoil. This is mostly due to weight.
Lu1zBeast@reddit
I would not have expected that.
Comfortable_History8@reddit
A autoloading 10ga isn’t all that bad, it’s on par with a lot of heavier 12ga waterfowl loads. The 12ga is more popular because it’s typically lighter, more versatile, and ammunition is easier to find and usually quite a bit cheaper
agentkayne@reddit
10 gauge or larger shells aren't that common, I'm sceptical that they would be adopted and rolled out by any military.
Begle1@reddit
If we started from a clean slate on anti-drone shotgun design, I suspect we wouldn't end up with something that looks like a traditional shotgun shell.
Shotshells are as long as they all mostly because they are descended the black powder era where you'd need to fit a much larger volume of powder. With modern smokeless powder, the shorter-height shells don't give up much, and what they do give up is mostly pattern-related.
10 gauge max pressure spec is only 11,000 psi, and even 12 gauge supermagnum (3.5") pressures are spec'd up to only 14,000 psi.
Why not run a smaller diameter at a higher pressure? Traditionally it's because the pattern goes to shit. So why not focus on figuring out how to make a better pattern?
I reckon the most promising anti-drone innovation I've seen are the several different designs I've seen that fire what are basically nets. Like buckshot all tethered together, so it can only ever pattern so wide, but that pattern always looks the same. If that technology is feasible, you don't need to worry about your pattern going to shit, and so you can shoot it out of a smaller diameter at a higher pressure...
You still are limited in how you're going to actually hit anything, and for that you're going to need either a traditionally-shaped shotgun or whiz-bang sci-fi aiming system. But when it comes to the round itself? No need to keep all the vestigial empty space, be it length or girth.
This is all assuming, of course, that there isn't a sci-fi directed energy solution. Where's that EMP cannon that can fry motor windings? I've always been told that was the future.
GrahminRadarin@reddit
So you're saying the best thing is to go back to bar-and-chain ammo?
Lonecoon@reddit
A 40mm net launcher would wreck most FPV drones.
Begle1@reddit
Innovation is one big circle.
If I were tasked with spending Elbonia's substantial anti-drone shotgun R&D budget, that's where I'd start. Find the round first that does what you need ballistically, and build a gun around it second.
WindstormMD@reddit
No, optics and target tracking technology is what will answer it, because the engagement rage of those weapons exceeds the engagement range of a shotgun (even a large one) by multiple hundred meters
Ex: The sharpshooter SMASH tracking optic/trigger combo
CAD007@reddit
You can’t shoot down a drone swarm.
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