Occupy was at least some real effort and done in the correct spaces. It made the elites very nervous. It was sabotaged by outside agitators and internal lack of leadership.
The shit we do now is treated like a social gathering for selfies and funny sign contests.
I think Occupy was one of the main reasons why Billionaires bought up all the big news channels and papers so they could better control the narratives on actions just like that.
I upvoted you for a good spirit, but this started right after the Vietnam War. Conservatives realized that bad PR had closed their profitable war, and took steps to make sure that this never happened again.
There was a famous conference where they public planned everything, but I can't remember the name, and both Ecosia and Google are strangely silent. I note that the search engines I use have trouble now coming up with some old stories which put the Fash in a bad light.
Agreed. Reporting on the war from within the US is very quiet. No images - I am not sure there has been even one image in the media related to US casualties.
Exactly, they were occupying public spaces in a way that made people angry. That's a protest. And, at least in my experience, is the difference between things that can lead to change and things that are just pointless, is whether the cops are trying to shut it down or are helping direct traffic.
If the cops aren't trying to shut you down, no one is listening. Youre being given a safe and unimportant place to shout your grievances at people who agree with you, so you can get it all out and feel like you did something. If the police are on your side that means the people in charge aren't concerned.
I agree. Occupy had real power but it was either they didn't have a plan for things working that well and wasted the moment or sabotage.
People there were organizing into working groups and discussing ideas whilst occupying public space. That is why it got the attention it did, and why No Kings is forgotten a day later. People aren’t leveraging the gathering into anything productive.
Being talked about doesn't equate to power. It was in the news cycle longer for sure. I think social media and the news is so different now, that I don't think that the exact same thing would get the same level of coverage now.
I am not arguing for permitted or for No Kings. 2011 is still such a different time than now with social media. Occupying a space is resource needy while not actually being any threat. I do not think it is a good tactic. Because it was essentially just urban camping with signs, there would be no lasting coverage today. Even the 24 hour news channels are different today. It wouldn't have the same traction with either. Even people who are self styled activists can be fickle. It really takes a lot to get people out to take any risks. It feels harder to do that now than any time in the last 20 years. With exception of the Twin Cities resistance to ICE, but it's a very different place and was under the heaviest seige of anywhere.
People aren’t leveraging the gathering into anything productive.
Exactly, and when I try to explain this to my fellow liberals they just tell me that I'm being a Debbie downer. Just meandering about with signs does nothing. You need to use that as a jumping off point. Which they simply are not doing.
To be fair, we only think there is nothing being done/planned. I mean, if I were to be planning something obstrucive, I wouldn’t announce it beforehand. So I hope there is, but I’m not expecting it.
I complained about this for decades. Eventually we moved to Europe. All my Democratic friends seem still completely satisfied with the performance of the DNC, and get angry if you criticize their leaders, or these stupid parades.
I got endlessly sick of the stupid puppets, stupid signs and stupid costumes. Do people not understand that they're alienating the very people whose support they need?
Every one of these "demonstrations" seemed like a big, fun party. How do they expect anyone to take them seriously?
When we moved into our new house, the old owners apologetically told us that there wasn't a garbage can, it had been taken in a demonstration to use as a barricade. (The city would give out a new can for free if we asked, but we don't generate much garbage.)
Hey, historically the French KNEW how to hold demonstrations. Active, USEFUL, in your face, block the roads demonstrations. I am thinking of the one years back held by French farmers. I can't recall the cause - McDonald's? IIRC some farmers went and dumped manure in a road leading some place.
I mean we all don't have a plan. "We" still don't have a plan. The right has Project 2025 and everyone who isn't them has bupkiss. It's what makes the DNC hilarious as an "opposition" party. They could come out with some basic populist polices and probably sweep the fuck out of elections for a decade but they wont' because it would cut into their campaign financing.
What's stopping the public from working on a plan, decentralized? Have a voting system on ideas and priorities, like reddit, and use interest to drive focus and refinement of those ideas.
It's the people who know what needs to be done and we take issues facing communities and bin them into bigger projects to be given the budget to handle all the smaller things.
People seem to know what needs to be changed around them, and there's never been a moment before where we can actually get people to submit problems and solutions and use tools to aggregate that stuff and cost it out.
It can live like Wikipedia as a growing and maturing policy document guided by actual democracy.
Whats the right platform for this and how do we get it started? This is one of those things that AI would be excellent for, summarizing and indexing complaints until you've got a department to deal with those problems individually.
Until the entire working class and middle class strike in a real way, nothing will change. We could bring it all down in a matter of days by refusing to work. We're too scared because they have us believing that they're in charge. We still have so much power but they make us think we don't
The American/citizens of the United States populace is not *there* yet. The statement I kept seeing was "embarassed {sp} millionaires", folks who REALLY believe the idea work hard = social mobility and wealth. The "American Rugged Individualism" myth that runs through our history. The belief that African American folks are on welfare, with their hands out, their men incarcerated, having too many children, and hence, unworthy of "hand outs". The belief that white folks made everything happen and it is OURS dammit! and white folks DESERVE wealth, happiness, etc. You get the idea.
What's stopping the public from working on a plan, decentralized?
Reality. That's just not how things work. You don't have great social movements from decentralized concepts devoid of real leadership. It just doesn't work that way. It never has.
What's stopping the public from working on a plan, decentralized?
Nothing - but have you ever tried to organize anyone into working on anything, ever? It's not trivial even when people are getting paid to do it.
And, well, you talk about budget, but where's any money coming from for this? It's definitely going to have to start as completely volunteer in a bunch of different communities.
I remember during the BLM protests in my city made a human chain across the interstate highway and it caused like hours of traffic. That’s how you get recognition lmao
I’ve been to some no kings protests and it was nice to be surrounded by people who are sane when it feels like everyone around you supports this madness, but they marched on the sidewalk toward the town park and then dispersed. It did nothing. If people can drive by, and if politicians can look out their window and be like “huh nice signs” and continue on with their day, nothing will ever change
But you have to wonder if being blocked on the interstate on the way home from work at a job you don't get paid enough for, to go home and have not enough money for a good dinner or pay bills.... does that get people interested in your cause? or does it just piss you off even more?
I feel like the problem is that the elites are never troubled by that kind of situation. It doesn't affect the people who really need to be bothered by it. It pretty much affects your peers. People that you don't want to inconvenience and being inconvenience doesn't usually make people jump onto your side. That's just my thought and I wish it weren't the way it is.
That's why you should strike and not protest.
That's why you need union and protected strike rights.
That's why the US is not a democracy, not free, and fucked up
Also, Occupy encampments jump-started the current wave of anti-homeless law. Showing my age but sleeping outside used to be legal just about everywhere. Then Nashville made it illegal and it was a big deal for like 5 seconds before blue states started passing the same laws and it became normalized.
Both sides were pissed off about Occupy disrupting their gravy train and that’s how you know Occupy wasn’t just astroturfed bullshit like their “Tea Party”.
Eh Tea Party had grass roots support and basically morphed into MAGA. The reach of the Tea Party was absolutely enhanced by monied interests though. They took all that populist rage and their votes and projected to waiting ears and manufactured the GOP we have today.
“The study, funded by the National Cancer Institute of the National Institute of Health, traces the roots of the Tea Party’s anti-tax movement back to the early 1980s when tobacco companies began to invest in third party groups to fight excise taxes on cigarettes, as well as health studies finding a link between cancer and secondhand cigarette smoke.”
“Far from a genuine grassroots uprising, this astroturf effort was curated by wealthy industrialists years in advance. Many of the anti-science operatives who defended cigarettes are currently deploying their tobacco-inspired playbook internationally to evade accountability for the fossil fuel industry’s role in driving climate disruption.”
I don’t think that’s what astroturfing is though. No one is planting these ideas with the hopes that the masses adopt them 30 years later. Their ideas just never took root until the people were looking for something.
They funded the shite out of it but ignore the popularity of their agenda at your own peril.
These people aren't being made racist by the Koch Brothers. The Koch brothers are giving money to people and orgs that can exploit that.
I remember seeing it on the news and they would go up and ask one dude who was clearly on acid and not in his right mind and ask him "what is occupy all about?" Dood would be caught off guard and high as fuck and say something stupid. And then the reporter would walk off all smarmy. "so apparently occupied doesn't know anything about what they want...."
That wasn't the case, but that's what we're showing on the media at least in my city. And it was frustrating.
I totally agree. That was very different from No Kings. No Kings is an opportunity for recruitment for networks that are deployed in case of emergency. The purpose of No Kings should be to meet people and form a network of resistance. Many people are doing that work.
I got called for jury duty once upon a time in the case that was a protestor/activist who torched an apartment building getting built during the occupy movement, I did not get selected.
It lets people know they aren’t alone and that they are in the majority. It lets people know that the bullshit they are seeing and hearing about the silent majority is bullshit. It lets the elites know that the public isn’t putting up with it. And it also would be looked at in hindsight as step one if a revolution ever started.
We know we're the majority and the elites don't care about this. Get a million people to show up and do this at the DC capitol for hours on end while being actually angry about it would make them notice.
I'd like to believe this, that everyone is open to discussion and can be reasoned with, but I'm not sure. Most people's political affiliations are determined 99% by primal emotional responses and 1% by logic. People vote for what they think with soothe their worries, not for what they've contemplated heavily and think is most realisitic and sensible.
It was not really a leadership issue so much as what was the best case of the occupying? It's not a threat nor a mass movement. How would it actually effect things?
Americans in general, even the lowest income ones, are still way too comfortable and entertained with bread & circuses to rise up and riot/revolt like what we see in other nations. The closest we recently got was the G. Floyd protests/the CHAZ (which ended embarrassingly) and ironically the Jan. 6th riots (which was an insurrection for all the wrong reasons).
Yep. We all have something to lose. We're all too disconnected. We all have to show up to work and pay bills and do chores and look for a little free time. I get that's make these protests feel important to some people because it's all they can do. Bottom line though is that it's not stopping or even irritating the ones making our world a dumpster fire.
i think the issue is that everyone is institutionalized so hard that they literally cannot afford to protest for any meaningful amount of time..... not enough damage to profits is done because of this.
Eh. It’s more about how this isn’t how protest is supposed to happen. There should be a list of demands and real action to follow. None of the no kings protests have disrupted anything. They’re all structured to cause the least amount of discomfort possible, which means nobody is going to actually be pressured to fix anything. Just a way to make people feel good about “doing something”. You get the nervous system regulation and ego/morality boost without actually effecting any real change.
These protests should be going around shutting down ICE facilities. Or protesting outside senators' houses. "No Kings" one weekend every few months is just a pointless parade. It needs to change something and it needs to happen a lot more often.
Neoliberal is typically used to describe a bundle of right wing ultra capitalist economic policies that are anti-regulation, anti-organized labor anti-tax, pro-business libertarian type shit.
And these women get off… maybe half a stop early if you’re lucky? Most of them agree with these things to a T, they just don’t hate the gays as openly as the Cheeto Reich
Sorry, but if millions of people across the country aren't going to do anything because they're afraid of getting shot, they may as well stay at home. Those numbers should be more than big enough to shut the country down.
Oh I agree with you.
I think the killing of 2 US citizens by ICE was effective in scaring people off from any meaningful protests, which is why we have these largely ineffective marches.
That’s why people do it. It’s a parade for themselves. They show up and socialize while resting in the fact they think they’re doing something noble. There’s a lot of philosophy on the modern psyche and how we replaced God with idolatry of the self. I don’t believe in god but Nietzsches quote “god is dead and we have killed him” could mean the idea of something higher powered is dead and self exhalation is all that’s left. Chris hedges has some good writing on this phenomenon but I think this is a good example of how even our political capital is spent on ourselves. When individuals lack community and focusing on helping others, they turn to helping themselves; lack of personal meaning.
A protest involves demonstration to the people you oppose.
These rallies are quick to remove anyone in the vicinity perceived to not to be 100% on brand with the ideology of the event organizers.
No room for even the slightest criticism, either you buy in without question or you might as well be Hitler. This goes for certain MAGA rallies as well with everything pushing the other direction.
It's a day out with ample Instagram story opportunities and that's all it is for a large number of people. I'm sure they don't like Trump, but I guarantee you these marches are about as far as most of these people are willing to go, I'm afraid.
And in that sense, they do a lot more harm than they help, because everybody goes back home competent thinking they've accomplished something. I literally saw some of them tweet "see you in November, MAGA". It's so hopeless.
Perfectly said. At best these “No Kings protests” are a nice gesture. It’s better than doing absolutely nothing but all it really does is make people feel good about themselves while nothing actually changes. The elites are just laughing at everyone that takes part as they know these pre planned for months, government approved peaceful demonstrations won’t change a damn thing.
Tens of thousands died before it all was over
And some say it all ended in defeat
But the landscape was transformed when serfdom was abolished
Which is why we don't see history repeat
And the monarchs remembered when peasants with pitchforks
Came to burn down their estate
And most of them decided democracy was better
Than the Rising of 1848.
Exactly, people have to be willing to die for a better future, but instead all they do is hope for one as if just hoping for change was ever enough to actually change something.
Protest without the threat of violence or economic disruption rarely affects change. Destruction or economic upheaval are key ingredients in creating true societal change. Otherwise it’s just another ignorable event.
Liberals love to say theyre "left" until they have to do a single revolutionary thing that doesn't involve making orange man jokes online and dancing in a designated public space
Maybe read about like...every successful revolution in human history. Not a lot of peace involved.
And that’s why America doesn’t change but countries like France do. And I’m not talking guillotines, I’m talking things like the farmers protests where they disrupted road ways by dumping entire trucks of dirt on them or went to their government buildings and using farm equipment to blast manure all over them. Non-violent, but deeply disruptive
And as much as I am going to get downvoted to hell, economically, it’s not really that bad. People like to complain about the economy, and rightfully so, but people aren’t really struggling
Enough to want to throw it all away YET.
How many of you here went to these demonstrations? How many of you are just bitching while at least some people are doing something? It is the bare minimum to go to demonstrations like this. It isn't going to change anything overnight. Change doesnt happen overnight and change starts with you.
I went because it brings a sense of solidarity. A sense that I am not crazy and there are others who feel the same.
Does there need to be bolder action? Yes. But until you put real skin in the game, you havent done anything
If you are employed by someone, you don't have a choice to not pay taxes. Theyre withheld before you get your check by law. If you're self-employed then you can refuse to pay taxes and then pay fines and interest later. Not putting money in a retirement account only hurts you.
You sound like an insuffeable, rule following, ass kisser. Fascists are threatening life and libbery and you are worried about your portfolio and paying taxes so fascists can bomb children and attack blue states? Wake the fuck up, read the room.
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Hey listen here, bud. In order for protests to be effective, they need to be able to Include EVERYONE. were anything more to occur, there are some people who would feel excluded because they’re not comfortable or are not ABLE to contribute to turning up the heat, therefore, to exclude some people would be exactly just like how the current administration excludes a growing list of people /s
Events like these are allowed and encouraged because they’re meant to be pressure relief valves so that the gen pop can feel like they’ve done their part for the next 6 months. Are they a net negative? Probably not. Are they productive? Also probably not. Only positive is that it might push some people into more active forms of resistance if they meet other people or etc
The majority of people who voted, voted for Trump, basically hastening collapse. Many people did not vote and some of those were left wing voters who were protesting the candidates views. It was not the majority of citizens by far.
Has anything changed because of the No Kings protests or have they all just basically been a nothingburger at this point because it really doesn't feel like any of those protests have accomplished anything. If anyone has any evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it but from my perspective, I can't point out anything that's fundamentally changed since the protests started.
You’re counting kids and ineligible voters, the voting eligible population in 2024 was 244,666,890 still embarrassing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections
What has this or any protest in the last 10 years accomplished? Serious question.
Doesnt seem like a whole lot as everything continues to get worse. I guess we'll just protest ourselves into oblivion because the powers that be dont seem to even notice the protest.
I live in Nevada. The No Kings protest was reportedly larger in the relatively midsize city of Reno, about 10k protesters showing, and smaller in Las Vegas, about 7k people showing up.
The number of people who support the protesters, however, continues to grow with every asinine action Trump makes.
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted but you’re 100% right. Unfortunately there’s some real nitwits in this sub that (while I get this perspective) just want to rally about how everything is pointless and “both sides” everything- there’s still a huge amount of individuals and independents that know the difference between establishment parties and the actual sides that represent policy changes.
Either way you get my upvote because people these days have zero understanding of localized mutual aids, localized political movements, and localized help. They live in a reality where they think change happens overnight. It sure as hell doesn’t (coming from an elder millennial).
Something something Luigi. Oh yea! Luigi’s Mansion! There were those dead people. Luigi was scared of them? Never played the game. Heard good things about it. I think it ends with him conquering his fear of obscenely rich folk after they were dead or some shit like that.
After the big protests during the civil rights era, did it look different? I genuinely don't know. Did it take a few months to see change? Or, I guess were the protestors contending with a president instead of a collective cultural issue?
There was far more going on then - you had actual agitation and friction against the machine. Sit-ins, boycotts, and clear goals. The media wasn't shying away from covering it, either. Politicians were much more vulnerable then, too. They don't care now because they're all bankrolled and hardly need to go out and be seen or listen to their constituents. The No Kings stuff is... flat. Where's the demand? "No Kings"? Okay, now what? Everyone has their sign and most who attend will vote, but they likely already were regular voters. So what now? Did they organize a sit-in for D.C.? Are they organizing serious boycotts of companies? Anyone completely cut out their unnecessary spending? Anyone refusing to go to work? To school? Americans, mostly, are still too comfortable. These No Kings protests are comfortable. Quips on posterboard for an afternoon walk.
As I stated in a post I made above, don't forget, during the Civil Rights protests and the Vietnam protests, the people were younger. When I attended two No Kings protests - downvote me if you feel the need - I took note that there were much older people in the group. Folks who are older don't riot. I am a 57F, but I can't say for sure if I WOULDN'T riot.
Oh right, right. I mean like the black panthers and malcolm x were doing work back then, you're right. No Kings doesn't look like that kind of activism at all.
Exactly. And even with all of that work, it still took years just as /cranberries87 said. It wasn't easy getting a majority on the right side. I think there's a chance that we'll see more meaningful action this summer - especially as the war goes on, crops fail, and the administration fails to protect from or mitigate climate disasters. But then the heat is going to be something else. Be on the lookout for this administration to use people's stress and heat-related tempers to divide the nation even more over these issues to distract us.
The Civil Rights Act only passed because Kennedy got domed. It was a big policy priority for him that he couldn't pass while he was alive, and it took LBJ hitting legislators over the head with his corpse to get it done. Alot of people are still big mad about it. If it happened today, we'd have Strom Thurmond tweeting out that Kennedy deserved it, accompanied by an AI video of him getting dragged to hell.
The important difference was the cops were fighting the protesters.
If the cops aren't trying to shut you down, the people that give cops their orders aren't being bothered by what you're doing. If youre protesting the way things are and who's in charge of that, you want them to care enough to try to shut you down.
If not, you're probably part of a plan to get people who disagree with the government in a place where you can scan their faces and pull their phone traffic.
The police protect property and the rule of law, making them the strong arm of the status quo. If you want that to change, the only indication of that pressure having any effect is the attitude and actions of the police. You want them to beat you up. That's peaceful protesting- you're still getting your ass kicked, you're just not fighting back.
If youre not getting your ask kicked, you're either doing what the cops want or youre in a parade, not a protest
Part of it is because there's no violence. The protests are well organized, and there's no rioting. There's no threat of social unrest per se, because officials know that these people will go right back home.
It's commercialized protesting, and that's why nothing happens.
Taking my hat off, I admit to going to two No Kings protests. The reason for no rioting - older people in attendance. Older people just don't have it in them to riot. I am an "older" person - 57F - but I can't say for sure if I WOULD NOT riot.
lol no, we just need a third party to replace democrats. Like a party that.. stands for something, tries to do something.
Right now democrats are the party of "we aren't republicans" and their platform is that they promise to be LGBTQ+ friendly and follow all the proper processes and procedures while funneling all the wealth to the rich.
The few Democrats that are transformative (Hasan!) are weirdly party outsiders despite their wild popularity.. because the donor class doesn't like them.
He is the Mayor of NYC, which has a very high Jewish population. And by "Jewish" I am going to include, "Jewish" not being Zionist and pro-Israel. But I think you are aware of that.
The problem for Leftists generally is that for example, I agree with you for your first two paragraphs and I’m on board. Then you mention Hasan as transformative as if he’s a model to follow or listen to, and that’s when I get off again. Some of the stuff he says is okay, but that can be said about many. I think if the left is to actually rally we need to get away from putting people on a pedestal and put principles on a pedestal.
I can’t even begin to take Hasan seriously due to his own obvious wealth.
Ugh, well that's definitely at least in part because I named the wrong person there. Meant to reference Zohran Mamdani, current mayor of new york. Editing my comment, where I originally said "Hasan" in error...
That said, we can't move away from platforming people. As in, philosophically, it's impossible. Someone has to champion the principles, or the principles are meaningless. And, people are inspired by other people taking action in that it proves that those actions can be taken, and those actions can be popular. It's important to the human psyche.
It's also not how our political system functions. At the end of the day, someone has to get elected. It is, in fact, a popularity contest, for better or worse.
Couple that with a hella nasty summer of insane temps and storms, and add on FEMA just sitting there with no budget to help. Like I've been saying, this summer is ripe for being revolution or civil war.
But when they are hungry enough are the people who started organizing now or the people who decided at the 11th hour to maybe get involved most likely to leverage that into positive change?
Organize mutual aid groups, community conversations, affinity groups that create pamphlets and zines, direct actions, organize with other leftist orgs like DSA or another leftist organization to get into local politics, political education, unions, building class solidarity and consciousness. We need a social revolution just as much as a political revolution. There's lots of work to be doing. Get going
The...DSA? Lol. Very revolutionary. None of what you list here is happening. What are pamphlets and zines going to do? Who is going to read those except the people who likely already agree with what's in them? Direct actions? Like what? Community conversations? Yes. More talk is what's needed. Talk yourselves right into another demonstration. Unions?? What unions??? Weak.
I’ve been collapse aware for a few years, but I joined DSA after the last election because I saw the fascist writing on the wall and wanted to stand against it. My friends in DSA tend to look at me like I have two heads when I start talking about collapse, they seem to genuinely believe that if we got rid of capitalism then everything would be perfect.
I privately think they’re naïve and deluded, but I still get involved in things like mutual aid and anti-fascist resistance. I don’t think our society’s got too long left, but it’s always a good thing to build relationships between people!
They are deluded because they think their Zionist-ass, Democrat entryist group is in anyway a leftist organization.
Any "leftist" group that doesn't start off with teaching their members the importance of knowing how to fire a weapon (against the capitalist class) in the country with the most guns in the world is a waste of time.
There is no way that I would ever discuss my personal actions or actions I would be willing to take online. I have groups that I'm involved with and have been for many years. I'd like to continue working with them.
A civil war in modern America would be crazy we would have the Epstein class to the east the petro capitalists to the west the crypto bros to the north and the trump guys to the south
Striking as part of a union is a fuck ton of work. I cannot even imagine the logistics of a general strike in America. People need to eat and pay their bills and unless we abolish the entire system, once the strike is over so many people will just be more fucked than they are now.
Im all in for collective bargaining and community action, but there's hardly cohesive communities for people to fall back on. We need to create those community connections and networks if we have any chance of successfully having a general strike.
One of the most common precursors of revolution is active protests.
Like it’s one of the reasons why every time since occupy when the economy looks like it’s taking a turn all the elites slightly inhale… because they know there is all this pent up frustration and they aren’t viewed as legitimate.
But idk wtf this nothing burger stuff is, if you want to radically change stuff, statistically you live in America, you can buy arms… this isn’t complicated…
Right. "Active" protests. Which these are not. They're just permitted walks downtown for a few hours. Nothing is being disrupted. Americans aren't hungry enough for active protests.
I won't comment on your third point except to reiterate that Americans aren't hungry enough.
genuinely, grow up, you won’t stand up and do what you proclaim you want, instead blame everyone else, stop posting or you know, do the thing you proclaim you want.
Posting about how other people are failing to live up to your standards is dying in grandma’s garage behavior.
The idea is to keep getting people comfortable to manifest and hopefully we can get them to strike. However, no kings, indivisible, 50501, etc are all very suspicious to me. I don't trust them.
If you are genuinely baffled at the purpose of these large rallies / protests but not in an disingenuous way this is for you.
Consider for a moment that the modern generations of adults in the US have never had to be politically engaged beyond voting. Consider only the fringe right actively have militia minded, gun toting paranoia gangs since at least around the Rush Limbaugh rage and fear campaign.
Now taking these things into consideration, it takes time to get people to be the kind of citizen you need to go from no political activist muscle to revolutionaries which is what most confused/angry people seem to want to see.
These rallies are important to get people networking, feeling comfortable self-identifying which for liberals is not even common compared to MAGA which wear branded shit constantly. From here people feel emboldened and start to donate, participate outside of rallies, etc.
These are recruiting events and confidence builders.
Shitting all over these critical babysteps is either ignorant OR an intentional op to keep people feeling silly to never try and tear down others short of storming the palace kind of shit.
Don't fall for this, encourage others to participate, vote, do whats needed to be engaged however they need to engage. This activity snowballs so if 8m show up in the largest protest in the country it means more and more people are waking up and putting some level of skin in the game, eventually having the networks and communities for more resilience against whatever comes next even if it isnt perfect.
I remember scrolling past that headline on one post the next day or something, and then I actually used google to look it up, and it was real, and then I went back to what I was doing and nothing happened.
A real protest would blockade government buildings or prevent critical infrastructure from functioning until demands are met. The French know this. When they protest, they shut Paris down. They clog the streets and grind the city to a halt until their government is forced to capitulate.
But don’t they already do that? What’s the point of endlessly shrinking yourselves down more and more until nothing you do works. I’ve seen clips of people singing for the riot police and handing flowers out but those protests were still called ‘violent’. If you’re gonna be called this regardless (which is how propaganda works), why not make an actual material difference? They’re gonna do smear campaigns anyway, might as well do something real 🤷🏾♀️
This is the threat that always keeps sheep in line. This is why they're complicit in their lives, even when it is objectively miserable because "Atleast I haven't invoked the powerfuls ire. I'm at alot less risk of dying."
Thing is at a certain point you have to start fighting for what matters in this world. If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything. And we are getting very close to a point where refusing to act is going to be far more painful than actually doing something.
I'm not saying go out there and get yourself killed. I'm saying stop supporting the dominant narrative just because it's "the safe option" and start supporting - actually supporting not just giving lip service to - alternative and much better ways of existing on this planet.
Yeah that has always been a threat while protesting and revolutions in general and I totally understand the fear. But the point is that people are currently dying, so when is the time that people will no longer have anything to lose? As the contradictions continue to sharpen and living there gets harder and harder, Americans will only have two options: revolution or continued death and destruction. I just hope that the former is sometime soon.
I don’t think that all of these protests are completely useless or pointless, I just think that they need real organisation and concrete goals they want to achieve, because otherwise, it’s just a parade rather than an actual protest. They could serve as funnels into genuine action like mutual aid (that needs an end goal like getting more people into leftist theory and gaining class consciousness and solidarity so these networks grow, not just for the sake of it), civil disobedience and actual direct action.
Think of the civil rights movement with Malcolm X or the Black Panther Party, or other movements like Occupy Wall Street (which could’ve done something if not for the lack of cohesive ideological foundations, real leadership and concrete goals that made it easy for outside agitators to co-opt) or even the Black Lives Matter protests. Obviously of these need to be looked at with today’s hindsight in evaluating where things might have gone wrong (which has been done ad nauseam: another reason reading is a big part of making these things effective).
I really think that Americans could build real movements if there was a long term goal in mind and proper organising was done to radicalise people into actual action that has effects on the world (just look at the coordinate action European dock workers have been doing in stopping arms reaching Israel).
Just my two cents, but I do understand the fear. I just think it needs to be used as fuel for building a real movement. 8 million people is extremely significant, and it would be amazing if that could be used to do something. Everyone’s scared, I’d say people in the civil rights movement were too, and the people resisting in Gaza are probably terrified, but from a pragmatic point of view, there do need to be some sacrifices (not just life but of losing material comforts). Liberation is an uphill battle, and it certainly isn’t painless.
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I try to see the good in it. Like, each time is a dry run, or a test. A way to show that the country as a whole CAN coordinate, and that the number of people willing to show up is getting larger. I will be interested to see how many people take part in the (one day) general strike. Again, I know it won’t mean much since it will go back to business as usual on May 2nd, but I think it’s important that people are continuing to try and are having these test runs for when we won’t really have a choice but to do the real thing.
I’m not a fan of posts like this but generally agree/understand. I don’t expect these ‘protests’ to be effective at making change. Severe economic and political disruption is needed.
That being said, I have participated and still think its valuable. I’ve been able to connect with like minded people, made aware of local groups and other events to visit.
Also the power of just showing up. I believe the support for this administration is primarily fabricated (either by bots, foreign actors or the alt right media-sphere). Just seeing other real people show up in numbers is motivating to not just roll over and let them win.
It’s probably because it was designed by zionists and was never meant to do anything except make people think they’re doing something. Protests tend to have demands and don’t wait for the weekend to take place.
Americans have yet to realize that the entire country could be out in the streets, if it's off work hours it's meaningless and no one has to listen to them
You can only threaten the rich and powerful through their money or their lives
I was talking with my daughter about this the other day. My contention is that protests don’t work on their own, but if you keep getting like-minded folks together, some more effective things CAN start to happen as a result IF there is networking and coffee-shop/living room discussions that follow. If everyone simply protests, keeps to themselves, and goes home, they are basically useless.
I don’t know why you’d be expecting anything different. No Kings is a rally, and those have a place in large political projects, but they don’t make change in and of themselves.
They're glorified parties in the street where people pat themselves on the back for dressing up like Trump in diapers and dancing around. The "protest" movement in America is deeply unserious, infiltrated by those who want to maintain status quo, and are essentially political "get out the vote" rallies.
How embarrassing, an astroturfed gathering of boomers drenched in American flags wandering around the Capitol for a few hours can cause more disruption than 8 million people in the streets.
As long as people believe that democracy works, the spirit of resistance will be weak. When people believe the system represents them, the urge to challenge it fades.
Follows by a hearty round of voting... ha ha just kidding. There won't be any voting. But I'm sure the Restore the Vote protests will be super duper successful.
The kind of protest that will work is to disrupt the economy. Companies need to feel an immediate effect. The problem is that this will not likely work because too msny people are paycheck to paycheck. Which, of course, is by design.
Yeh. Ditto for BLM. Ditto for Occupy Wall Street. Ditto for Rodney King riot.
Or just ask Al Gore, who has tried for decades and Greta, who has tried for years. We passed 1.5C and blew through 2C briefly. And "drill baby drill" won.
Idk man, at the most recent no kings protest, I walked around and talked to people tabling for different organizations working to actually make change. From there, I attended meetings to see if I feel like those organizations were the right fit for me, and I think i found one. Just bc you didn't see immediate change doesn't mean change isn't coming. We're still in the beginning stages. No kings is an opportunity to seek affinity.
My own parents, who have never been to a rally in their lives, have attended the local no kings rally this past weekend.
I think these local rallies serve to encourage civic paricipation and community interaction. It increases voter turnout against fascism by acknowledging pent-up frustrations over the course of this admin.
It's not to the scale of European protests (which by the way are the size of a single US State), sure. That doesn't mean rallies are useless. It allowed those who don't who what next steps they should take civically to be organized regarding overturning this admin in a non-revolutionary way. Mostly because tensions have not increased deep enough in certain communities to encourage the revolution we see in other countries.
People don't want to hear this, but most americans are still comfortable dispite the bitchass president we have now. Society has not yet collapsed (aside from specific ICE-surged states that have disrupted the community so severely they have no option but to organize i.e. Minneapolis). The admin has been strategic in their rollout so that they do not enrage the entirety of a community, only the left.
It's troublesome and discouraging, but change is coming. The primaries don't lie. Not saying we should not revolutionize, but i am arguing that avg people's lives have not yet been disrupted to that extent, thanks to some Chess by Stephen Miller and P2025
The problem is that there is little class consciousness in the USA and their is decades of anti-labor propaganda to contend with. Their is a movement, https://generalstrikeus.com/, that is the logical next step after protesting does nothing to change things. The problem is that most people refuse to take that step, because they are afraid of losing their jobs and/or they're conditioned to believe that strikes are not effective, due to anti-labor propaganda. I do get the fear of losing a job, but nothing is going to change without taking risks. General strikes, with sufficient numbers, have proven effective time and time again. If you want to do something, help us grow the numbers we need to enact a general strike. It's a much better option, in my humble opinion, than doing things we can not talk about on platforms like this one.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/DisingenuousGuy:
Submission Statement: One week after the biggest protest and the third installment of the No Kings Rally, everyone went home to perpetuate the economic system on monday as if everything is okay. A few upset tweets happen, some back and forth happens on Social Media, then a rumored General Strike on May 1st is "declared" and everyone posts as if the last several declarations of General Strikes since 2020 did anything. Then Trump did his special 20 minute speech, and everyone moved on. Nothing ever happens.
This was meant to be posted on Political Humor however I think I was blacklisted there from submitting images. It may be because a few years ago I really made splash on that subreddit with this one, and especially this other one. Both of which was well liked by this subreddit too.
First Frame: Drew looks at a top portion of a BBC News Article about the Third No Kings Rally being the largest ever, drawing 8 million people.
Second Frame: Drew closes his eyes as if to blink, and the right of the image is blacked out since his eyes are closed.
Third Frame: Drew opens his eyes and the News Article has turned into a Nothingburger, a burger bun with an empty air gap in the middle where the meat and fillings would have been.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1sbnn8m/nothing_ever_happens/oe4pghm/
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
Submission Statement: One week after the biggest protest and the third installment of the No Kings Rally, everyone went home to perpetuate the economic system on monday as if everything is okay. A few upset tweets happen, some back and forth happens on Social Media, then a rumored General Strike on May 1st is "declared" and everyone posts as if the last several declarations of General Strikes since 2020 did anything. Then Trump did his special 20 minute speech, and everyone moved on. Nothing ever happens.
This was meant to be posted on Political Humor however I think I was blacklisted there from submitting images. It may be because a few years ago I really made splash on that subreddit with this one, and especially this other one. Both of which was well liked by this subreddit too.
upandtotheleftplease@reddit
Adam Curtis identified the same effect after the Occupy protests on Wall Street. Hypernormalisation makes sense of quite a lot going on these days.
ThatDamnRocketRacoon@reddit
Occupy was at least some real effort and done in the correct spaces. It made the elites very nervous. It was sabotaged by outside agitators and internal lack of leadership.
The shit we do now is treated like a social gathering for selfies and funny sign contests.
ClassicT4@reddit
I think Occupy was one of the main reasons why Billionaires bought up all the big news channels and papers so they could better control the narratives on actions just like that.
HommeMusical@reddit
I upvoted you for a good spirit, but this started right after the Vietnam War. Conservatives realized that bad PR had closed their profitable war, and took steps to make sure that this never happened again.
There was a famous conference where they public planned everything, but I can't remember the name, and both Ecosia and Google are strangely silent. I note that the search engines I use have trouble now coming up with some old stories which put the Fash in a bad light.
Reluctant_Firestorm@reddit
Agreed. Reporting on the war from within the US is very quiet. No images - I am not sure there has been even one image in the media related to US casualties.
BayouGal@reddit
No reporting on Trump’s was of choice from the billionaire-owned media? I’m SHOCKED!
SplashTarget@reddit
During OWS you had people pushing this bizarre line of thinking
And after OWS
Use of ‘sexist’ and ‘racist’ in the New York Times increased over 400% since 2012.
Can't let people think about monied interests, they must look skin deep.
midgaze@reddit
Social wedge issues are what keep progressives from making inroads.
ThatDamnRocketRacoon@reddit
Totally agree.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Exactly, they were occupying public spaces in a way that made people angry. That's a protest. And, at least in my experience, is the difference between things that can lead to change and things that are just pointless, is whether the cops are trying to shut it down or are helping direct traffic.
If the cops aren't trying to shut you down, no one is listening. Youre being given a safe and unimportant place to shout your grievances at people who agree with you, so you can get it all out and feel like you did something. If the police are on your side that means the people in charge aren't concerned.
I agree. Occupy had real power but it was either they didn't have a plan for things working that well and wasted the moment or sabotage.
whereismysideoffun@reddit
What power did Occupy have? I'm on the far left and can't really see it having power.
LegSpecialist1781@reddit
People there were organizing into working groups and discussing ideas whilst occupying public space. That is why it got the attention it did, and why No Kings is forgotten a day later. People aren’t leveraging the gathering into anything productive.
whereismysideoffun@reddit
Being talked about doesn't equate to power. It was in the news cycle longer for sure. I think social media and the news is so different now, that I don't think that the exact same thing would get the same level of coverage now.
LegSpecialist1781@reddit
Dude it was 2011, not 1980. We had a 24hr news cycle already. If it were a permitted saturday protest, it wouldn’t have gotten traction.
whereismysideoffun@reddit
I am not arguing for permitted or for No Kings. 2011 is still such a different time than now with social media. Occupying a space is resource needy while not actually being any threat. I do not think it is a good tactic. Because it was essentially just urban camping with signs, there would be no lasting coverage today. Even the 24 hour news channels are different today. It wouldn't have the same traction with either. Even people who are self styled activists can be fickle. It really takes a lot to get people out to take any risks. It feels harder to do that now than any time in the last 20 years. With exception of the Twin Cities resistance to ICE, but it's a very different place and was under the heaviest seige of anywhere.
Bluest_waters@reddit
Exactly, and when I try to explain this to my fellow liberals they just tell me that I'm being a Debbie downer. Just meandering about with signs does nothing. You need to use that as a jumping off point. Which they simply are not doing.
LegSpecialist1781@reddit
To be fair, we only think there is nothing being done/planned. I mean, if I were to be planning something obstrucive, I wouldn’t announce it beforehand. So I hope there is, but I’m not expecting it.
HommeMusical@reddit
I complained about this for decades. Eventually we moved to Europe. All my Democratic friends seem still completely satisfied with the performance of the DNC, and get angry if you criticize their leaders, or these stupid parades.
I got endlessly sick of the stupid puppets, stupid signs and stupid costumes. Do people not understand that they're alienating the very people whose support they need?
Every one of these "demonstrations" seemed like a big, fun party. How do they expect anyone to take them seriously?
When we moved into our new house, the old owners apologetically told us that there wasn't a garbage can, it had been taken in a demonstration to use as a barricade. (The city would give out a new can for free if we asked, but we don't generate much garbage.)
That's the sort of attitude I like.
HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit
Hey, historically the French KNEW how to hold demonstrations. Active, USEFUL, in your face, block the roads demonstrations. I am thinking of the one years back held by French farmers. I can't recall the cause - McDonald's? IIRC some farmers went and dumped manure in a road leading some place.
DocTaotsu@reddit
I mean we all don't have a plan. "We" still don't have a plan. The right has Project 2025 and everyone who isn't them has bupkiss. It's what makes the DNC hilarious as an "opposition" party. They could come out with some basic populist polices and probably sweep the fuck out of elections for a decade but they wont' because it would cut into their campaign financing.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
What's stopping the public from working on a plan, decentralized? Have a voting system on ideas and priorities, like reddit, and use interest to drive focus and refinement of those ideas.
It's the people who know what needs to be done and we take issues facing communities and bin them into bigger projects to be given the budget to handle all the smaller things.
People seem to know what needs to be changed around them, and there's never been a moment before where we can actually get people to submit problems and solutions and use tools to aggregate that stuff and cost it out.
It can live like Wikipedia as a growing and maturing policy document guided by actual democracy.
Whats the right platform for this and how do we get it started? This is one of those things that AI would be excellent for, summarizing and indexing complaints until you've got a department to deal with those problems individually.
Lets do this!
Mispict@reddit
Until the entire working class and middle class strike in a real way, nothing will change. We could bring it all down in a matter of days by refusing to work. We're too scared because they have us believing that they're in charge. We still have so much power but they make us think we don't
HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit
The American/citizens of the United States populace is not *there* yet. The statement I kept seeing was "embarassed {sp} millionaires", folks who REALLY believe the idea work hard = social mobility and wealth. The "American Rugged Individualism" myth that runs through our history. The belief that African American folks are on welfare, with their hands out, their men incarcerated, having too many children, and hence, unworthy of "hand outs". The belief that white folks made everything happen and it is OURS dammit! and white folks DESERVE wealth, happiness, etc. You get the idea.
Bluest_waters@reddit
Reality. That's just not how things work. You don't have great social movements from decentralized concepts devoid of real leadership. It just doesn't work that way. It never has.
Bellegante@reddit
Nothing - but have you ever tried to organize anyone into working on anything, ever? It's not trivial even when people are getting paid to do it.
And, well, you talk about budget, but where's any money coming from for this? It's definitely going to have to start as completely volunteer in a bunch of different communities.
I love the idea, though!
SquashDue502@reddit
I remember during the BLM protests in my city made a human chain across the interstate highway and it caused like hours of traffic. That’s how you get recognition lmao
I’ve been to some no kings protests and it was nice to be surrounded by people who are sane when it feels like everyone around you supports this madness, but they marched on the sidewalk toward the town park and then dispersed. It did nothing. If people can drive by, and if politicians can look out their window and be like “huh nice signs” and continue on with their day, nothing will ever change
Micro-Naut@reddit
But you have to wonder if being blocked on the interstate on the way home from work at a job you don't get paid enough for, to go home and have not enough money for a good dinner or pay bills.... does that get people interested in your cause? or does it just piss you off even more?
I feel like the problem is that the elites are never troubled by that kind of situation. It doesn't affect the people who really need to be bothered by it. It pretty much affects your peers. People that you don't want to inconvenience and being inconvenience doesn't usually make people jump onto your side. That's just my thought and I wish it weren't the way it is.
Current-Code@reddit
That's why you should strike and not protest. That's why you need union and protected strike rights. That's why the US is not a democracy, not free, and fucked up
Severe_Eggplant_7747@reddit
And Occupy changed exactly nothing so not sure what your point is.
4ab273bed4f79ea5bb5@reddit
Also, Occupy encampments jump-started the current wave of anti-homeless law. Showing my age but sleeping outside used to be legal just about everywhere. Then Nashville made it illegal and it was a big deal for like 5 seconds before blue states started passing the same laws and it became normalized.
musical_shares@reddit
Both sides were pissed off about Occupy disrupting their gravy train and that’s how you know Occupy wasn’t just astroturfed bullshit like their “Tea Party”.
DocTaotsu@reddit
Eh Tea Party had grass roots support and basically morphed into MAGA. The reach of the Tea Party was absolutely enhanced by monied interests though. They took all that populist rage and their votes and projected to waiting ears and manufactured the GOP we have today.
musical_shares@reddit
“The study, funded by the National Cancer Institute of the National Institute of Health, traces the roots of the Tea Party’s anti-tax movement back to the early 1980s when tobacco companies began to invest in third party groups to fight excise taxes on cigarettes, as well as health studies finding a link between cancer and secondhand cigarette smoke.”
“Far from a genuine grassroots uprising, this astroturf effort was curated by wealthy industrialists years in advance. Many of the anti-science operatives who defended cigarettes are currently deploying their tobacco-inspired playbook internationally to evade accountability for the fossil fuel industry’s role in driving climate disruption.”
Koch Bros prints all over that bad boy.
LegSpecialist1781@reddit
I don’t think that’s what astroturfing is though. No one is planting these ideas with the hopes that the masses adopt them 30 years later. Their ideas just never took root until the people were looking for something.
musical_shares@reddit
“Astroturf” is fake green grass.
Fake grassroots movements that are actually monied interests masquerading as organic movements are called “astroturf” for the fake grass(roots).
LegSpecialist1781@reddit
Yes, and what you were posing wouldnt qualify, unless there is no time component at all.
HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit
TIL. Thank you for making me THINK about the term "astroturf". I hadn't really given it any thought. I get it now.
musical_shares@reddit
The more we all know, the better we all are 💪
HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit
That is why I post on r/collapse!
DocTaotsu@reddit
They funded the shite out of it but ignore the popularity of their agenda at your own peril.
These people aren't being made racist by the Koch Brothers. The Koch brothers are giving money to people and orgs that can exploit that.
Micro-Naut@reddit
I remember seeing it on the news and they would go up and ask one dude who was clearly on acid and not in his right mind and ask him "what is occupy all about?" Dood would be caught off guard and high as fuck and say something stupid. And then the reporter would walk off all smarmy. "so apparently occupied doesn't know anything about what they want...."
That wasn't the case, but that's what we're showing on the media at least in my city. And it was frustrating.
StrongAroma@reddit
Yeah but the tea party (now known as maga) infiltrated, co-opted, and corrupted the occupy movement to the point where it just became a joke.
onionfunyunbunion@reddit
What about the people in Minneapolis. They organized, fought back and reduced the harm that was being caused.
ThatDamnRocketRacoon@reddit
That's totally different than a No Kings protest. That was people in the streets every day actually taking action.
onionfunyunbunion@reddit
I totally agree. That was very different from No Kings. No Kings is an opportunity for recruitment for networks that are deployed in case of emergency. The purpose of No Kings should be to meet people and form a network of resistance. Many people are doing that work.
rematar@reddit
Liquidate Wall Street from the comfort of your home.
CrustyRim2@reddit
"Correct spaces" that is always my biggest gripe with protests, especially if chaos breaks out. Go to the places where these people live and operate.
HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit
Truth in this comment.
pistilpeet@reddit
Not elites, child fuckers.
mymau5likeshouse@reddit
I got called for jury duty once upon a time in the case that was a protestor/activist who torched an apartment building getting built during the occupy movement, I did not get selected.
Direption@reddit
The Tree of Liberty has to get watered and it's the only way out.
mathiustus@reddit
It lets people know they aren’t alone and that they are in the majority. It lets people know that the bullshit they are seeing and hearing about the silent majority is bullshit. It lets the elites know that the public isn’t putting up with it. And it also would be looked at in hindsight as step one if a revolution ever started.
ThatDamnRocketRacoon@reddit
We know we're the majority and the elites don't care about this. Get a million people to show up and do this at the DC capitol for hours on end while being actually angry about it would make them notice.
mathiustus@reddit
There are people in homes that aren’t chronically online aren’t political who don’t know that. These protests reach them too.
Or the red hats who are questioning and but believe the overwhelming victory lie. They can be reached too.
uatry@reddit
I'd like to believe this, that everyone is open to discussion and can be reasoned with, but I'm not sure. Most people's political affiliations are determined 99% by primal emotional responses and 1% by logic. People vote for what they think with soothe their worries, not for what they've contemplated heavily and think is most realisitic and sensible.
whereismysideoffun@reddit
It was not really a leadership issue so much as what was the best case of the occupying? It's not a threat nor a mass movement. How would it actually effect things?
BloodWorried7446@reddit
who’d have thought that Anarchists would have poor leadership? . I was so hopeful for Occupy.
McCree114@reddit
Americans in general, even the lowest income ones, are still way too comfortable and entertained with bread & circuses to rise up and riot/revolt like what we see in other nations. The closest we recently got was the G. Floyd protests/the CHAZ (which ended embarrassingly) and ironically the Jan. 6th riots (which was an insurrection for all the wrong reasons).
ThatDamnRocketRacoon@reddit
Yep. We all have something to lose. We're all too disconnected. We all have to show up to work and pay bills and do chores and look for a little free time. I get that's make these protests feel important to some people because it's all they can do. Bottom line though is that it's not stopping or even irritating the ones making our world a dumpster fire.
Routine-Ad-2840@reddit
i think the issue is that everyone is institutionalized so hard that they literally cannot afford to protest for any meaningful amount of time..... not enough damage to profits is done because of this.
CrustyRim2@reddit
George Floyd protests ignited actual change. I forget what happened during them, but I don't remember people hanging out with cute signs.
JMaster098@reddit
No it didn't lol, police budgets increased after the Floyd protests/riots.
ChromaticStrike@reddit
Oh, sounds like quality stuff, watching it righ away, thx.
labreezyanimal@reddit
Eh. It’s more about how this isn’t how protest is supposed to happen. There should be a list of demands and real action to follow. None of the no kings protests have disrupted anything. They’re all structured to cause the least amount of discomfort possible, which means nobody is going to actually be pressured to fix anything. Just a way to make people feel good about “doing something”. You get the nervous system regulation and ego/morality boost without actually effecting any real change.
projectsmith@reddit
Brilliant
spacestationkru@reddit
These protests should be going around shutting down ICE facilities. Or protesting outside senators' houses. "No Kings" one weekend every few months is just a pointless parade. It needs to change something and it needs to happen a lot more often.
AbortimusTheExiled@reddit
Sorry, unfortunately that is too much to ask for the 40+ year old white neoliberal women to protest.
Scribble_Box@reddit
AbortimusTheExiled@reddit
Oh yeah kinda like this
TheBroWhoLifts@reddit
Neoliberal is typically used to describe a bundle of right wing ultra capitalist economic policies that are anti-regulation, anti-organized labor anti-tax, pro-business libertarian type shit.
ArugulaAcrobatic4018@reddit
No, it describes the current global mode of production
Blackwing_OW@reddit
And these women get off… maybe half a stop early if you’re lucky? Most of them agree with these things to a T, they just don’t hate the gays as openly as the Cheeto Reich
DrRatio-PhD@reddit
Thats the thing, it has no teeth. What's the threat? That they won't vote? That's already what they want.
Brullaapje@reddit
How many people did not vote out of "protest" the last election?
DrRatio-PhD@reddit
That's a bingo.
pl487@reddit
They tried that. They are going to prison on terrorism charges. This administration isn't fucking around.
momentummonkey@reddit
A strike on a weekend is also pretty funny
Financial_Phrase5959@reddit
But people are afraid to protest at ICE facilities because they will get shot.
spacestationkru@reddit
Sorry, but if millions of people across the country aren't going to do anything because they're afraid of getting shot, they may as well stay at home. Those numbers should be more than big enough to shut the country down.
Financial_Phrase5959@reddit
Oh I agree with you. I think the killing of 2 US citizens by ICE was effective in scaring people off from any meaningful protests, which is why we have these largely ineffective marches.
ApoptosisPending@reddit
That’s why people do it. It’s a parade for themselves. They show up and socialize while resting in the fact they think they’re doing something noble. There’s a lot of philosophy on the modern psyche and how we replaced God with idolatry of the self. I don’t believe in god but Nietzsches quote “god is dead and we have killed him” could mean the idea of something higher powered is dead and self exhalation is all that’s left. Chris hedges has some good writing on this phenomenon but I think this is a good example of how even our political capital is spent on ourselves. When individuals lack community and focusing on helping others, they turn to helping themselves; lack of personal meaning.
trench_welfare@reddit
It's not a protest, it's a political rally.
A protest involves demonstration to the people you oppose.
These rallies are quick to remove anyone in the vicinity perceived to not to be 100% on brand with the ideology of the event organizers.
No room for even the slightest criticism, either you buy in without question or you might as well be Hitler. This goes for certain MAGA rallies as well with everything pushing the other direction.
formallyhuman@reddit
It's a day out with ample Instagram story opportunities and that's all it is for a large number of people. I'm sure they don't like Trump, but I guarantee you these marches are about as far as most of these people are willing to go, I'm afraid.
spacestationkru@reddit
And in that sense, they do a lot more harm than they help, because everybody goes back home competent thinking they've accomplished something. I literally saw some of them tweet "see you in November, MAGA". It's so hopeless.
Ok-Zookeepergame5245@reddit
Perfectly said. At best these “No Kings protests” are a nice gesture. It’s better than doing absolutely nothing but all it really does is make people feel good about themselves while nothing actually changes. The elites are just laughing at everyone that takes part as they know these pre planned for months, government approved peaceful demonstrations won’t change a damn thing.
formallyhuman@reddit
The people need to be doing shit like it's 1848.
Tens of thousands died before it all was over And some say it all ended in defeat But the landscape was transformed when serfdom was abolished Which is why we don't see history repeat And the monarchs remembered when peasants with pitchforks Came to burn down their estate And most of them decided democracy was better Than the Rising of 1848.
Ok-Zookeepergame5245@reddit
Exactly, people have to be willing to die for a better future, but instead all they do is hope for one as if just hoping for change was ever enough to actually change something.
yungfalafel@reddit
As if voting him out of office is enough. They are so embarrassing.
kitkatattack12@reddit
DLTMIAR@reddit
It needs to be sustained like Occupy Wall Street
Lower_Conclusion1447@reddit
Exactly! You will NOT take our cheap labor!
vid_icarus@reddit
This is gunna sound extreme but it’s not:
Protest without the threat of violence or economic disruption rarely affects change. Destruction or economic upheaval are key ingredients in creating true societal change. Otherwise it’s just another ignorable event.
cgermann@reddit
you have freedom of Speech not the freedom to wreck stuff. A protest becomes a riot the moment the first glass is shattered.
ftp67@reddit
Liberals love to say theyre "left" until they have to do a single revolutionary thing that doesn't involve making orange man jokes online and dancing in a designated public space
Maybe read about like...every successful revolution in human history. Not a lot of peace involved.
variousdetritus@reddit
Being told some variation of “violence is never the answer” over and over again since the day you were born will have that effect on people
hank10111111@reddit
Also why should we be peaceful when all our gov shows us is how violent they are.
ArugulaAcrobatic4018@reddit
Oh no! Won't anyone think of the stuff???
vid_icarus@reddit
Dang you are so right. Founding fathers were nothing but a bunch a no good radical extremist left wing terrorists.
REDDEATH924@reddit
And that’s why America doesn’t change but countries like France do. And I’m not talking guillotines, I’m talking things like the farmers protests where they disrupted road ways by dumping entire trucks of dirt on them or went to their government buildings and using farm equipment to blast manure all over them. Non-violent, but deeply disruptive
Disastrous-Swim7406@reddit
And as much as I am going to get downvoted to hell, economically, it’s not really that bad. People like to complain about the economy, and rightfully so, but people aren’t really struggling Enough to want to throw it all away YET.
Red_aka_James@reddit
How many of you here went to these demonstrations? How many of you are just bitching while at least some people are doing something? It is the bare minimum to go to demonstrations like this. It isn't going to change anything overnight. Change doesnt happen overnight and change starts with you.
I went because it brings a sense of solidarity. A sense that I am not crazy and there are others who feel the same.
Does there need to be bolder action? Yes. But until you put real skin in the game, you havent done anything
hw999@reddit
Imagine in 8 million people stopped paying axes or stopped contributing to their 401k? That would have gotten some serious attention.
onepartyofone@reddit
If you are employed by someone, you don't have a choice to not pay taxes. Theyre withheld before you get your check by law. If you're self-employed then you can refuse to pay taxes and then pay fines and interest later. Not putting money in a retirement account only hurts you.
hw999@reddit
You sound like an insuffeable, rule following, ass kisser. Fascists are threatening life and libbery and you are worried about your portfolio and paying taxes so fascists can bomb children and attack blue states? Wake the fuck up, read the room.
collapse-ModTeam@reddit
Rule 1: In addition to enforcing Reddit's content policy, we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other.
Andricent@reddit
Hey listen here, bud. In order for protests to be effective, they need to be able to Include EVERYONE. were anything more to occur, there are some people who would feel excluded because they’re not comfortable or are not ABLE to contribute to turning up the heat, therefore, to exclude some people would be exactly just like how the current administration excludes a growing list of people /s
Snack_Oliver@reddit
Events like these are allowed and encouraged because they’re meant to be pressure relief valves so that the gen pop can feel like they’ve done their part for the next 6 months. Are they a net negative? Probably not. Are they productive? Also probably not. Only positive is that it might push some people into more active forms of resistance if they meet other people or etc
UneedaBolt@reddit
Go ask republican pollsters if it is a nothing burger.
Anthropocene_Scholar@reddit
Why should it? The vast majority of American citizenry DID NOT ATTEND, NOR AGREE WITH, the protest.
Vast majority of US citizens VOTED for Trump.
Those who don't and don't like him, flash news: that's democracy for you.
morgartjr@reddit
The majority of people who voted, voted for Trump, basically hastening collapse. Many people did not vote and some of those were left wing voters who were protesting the candidates views. It was not the majority of citizens by far.
Masta0nion@reddit
Imagine what would get done if that was a Monday morning, instead of a fun Saturday picnic.
Susanoos_Wife@reddit
Has anything changed because of the No Kings protests or have they all just basically been a nothingburger at this point because it really doesn't feel like any of those protests have accomplished anything. If anyone has any evidence to the contrary, I'd love to see it but from my perspective, I can't point out anything that's fundamentally changed since the protests started.
kiwittnz@reddit
I feel sad for average Americans. They live in a country ruled by people they did not vote for.
Proof: 77,302,580 voted for Trump out of 341,784,857 Americans
Let that sink in - only \~22%
0r0B0t0@reddit
You’re counting kids and ineligible voters, the voting eligible population in 2024 was 244,666,890 still embarrassing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections
kiwittnz@reddit
77,302,580 out of 244,666,890 is still \~31% - still less than 1/3
As you say - Embarrassing version of democracy.
SambaSaspen@reddit
Are kids and ineligible voters not americans living under the same government as the rest?
stirtheturd@reddit
What has this or any protest in the last 10 years accomplished? Serious question.
Doesnt seem like a whole lot as everything continues to get worse. I guess we'll just protest ourselves into oblivion because the powers that be dont seem to even notice the protest.
ApplesBananasRhinoc@reddit
10 years?!?! More like 25 years!
lavapig_love@reddit
I live in Nevada. The No Kings protest was reportedly larger in the relatively midsize city of Reno, about 10k protesters showing, and smaller in Las Vegas, about 7k people showing up.
The number of people who support the protesters, however, continues to grow with every asinine action Trump makes.
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
What does "support the protestors" mean? Sharing social media posts?
lavapig_love@reddit
With mutual aid.
And that's all I'll say about that.
Chet_Ripley01@reddit
I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted but you’re 100% right. Unfortunately there’s some real nitwits in this sub that (while I get this perspective) just want to rally about how everything is pointless and “both sides” everything- there’s still a huge amount of individuals and independents that know the difference between establishment parties and the actual sides that represent policy changes.
Either way you get my upvote because people these days have zero understanding of localized mutual aids, localized political movements, and localized help. They live in a reality where they think change happens overnight. It sure as hell doesn’t (coming from an elder millennial).
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
Okay. Lol.
BittyWastard@reddit
Something something Luigi. Oh yea! Luigi’s Mansion! There were those dead people. Luigi was scared of them? Never played the game. Heard good things about it. I think it ends with him conquering his fear of obscenely rich folk after they were dead or some shit like that.
DevilsPlaything42@reddit
Everybody needs to go to the Capitol. Or the White House.
HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit
Didn't they try that on January 6, 2021? s/
Technolio@reddit
We need to do a lot more than just show up and yell about things, if you catch my drift.
HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit
Toss something out there! :)
The_Quiet_PartYT@reddit
After the big protests during the civil rights era, did it look different? I genuinely don't know. Did it take a few months to see change? Or, I guess were the protestors contending with a president instead of a collective cultural issue?
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
There was far more going on then - you had actual agitation and friction against the machine. Sit-ins, boycotts, and clear goals. The media wasn't shying away from covering it, either. Politicians were much more vulnerable then, too. They don't care now because they're all bankrolled and hardly need to go out and be seen or listen to their constituents. The No Kings stuff is... flat. Where's the demand? "No Kings"? Okay, now what? Everyone has their sign and most who attend will vote, but they likely already were regular voters. So what now? Did they organize a sit-in for D.C.? Are they organizing serious boycotts of companies? Anyone completely cut out their unnecessary spending? Anyone refusing to go to work? To school? Americans, mostly, are still too comfortable. These No Kings protests are comfortable. Quips on posterboard for an afternoon walk.
HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit
As I stated in a post I made above, don't forget, during the Civil Rights protests and the Vietnam protests, the people were younger. When I attended two No Kings protests - downvote me if you feel the need - I took note that there were much older people in the group. Folks who are older don't riot. I am a 57F, but I can't say for sure if I WOULDN'T riot.
The_Quiet_PartYT@reddit
Oh right, right. I mean like the black panthers and malcolm x were doing work back then, you're right. No Kings doesn't look like that kind of activism at all.
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
Exactly. And even with all of that work, it still took years just as /cranberries87 said. It wasn't easy getting a majority on the right side. I think there's a chance that we'll see more meaningful action this summer - especially as the war goes on, crops fail, and the administration fails to protect from or mitigate climate disasters. But then the heat is going to be something else. Be on the lookout for this administration to use people's stress and heat-related tempers to divide the nation even more over these issues to distract us.
Longjumping_Share444@reddit
The Civil Rights Act only passed because Kennedy got domed. It was a big policy priority for him that he couldn't pass while he was alive, and it took LBJ hitting legislators over the head with his corpse to get it done. Alot of people are still big mad about it. If it happened today, we'd have Strom Thurmond tweeting out that Kennedy deserved it, accompanied by an AI video of him getting dragged to hell.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
The important difference was the cops were fighting the protesters.
If the cops aren't trying to shut you down, the people that give cops their orders aren't being bothered by what you're doing. If youre protesting the way things are and who's in charge of that, you want them to care enough to try to shut you down.
If not, you're probably part of a plan to get people who disagree with the government in a place where you can scan their faces and pull their phone traffic.
The police protect property and the rule of law, making them the strong arm of the status quo. If you want that to change, the only indication of that pressure having any effect is the attitude and actions of the police. You want them to beat you up. That's peaceful protesting- you're still getting your ass kicked, you're just not fighting back.
If youre not getting your ask kicked, you're either doing what the cops want or youre in a parade, not a protest
curlofheadcurls@reddit
They used to strike back in the day
cranberries87@reddit
From what relatives have said, it took years.
OlasNah@reddit
Part of it is because there's no violence. The protests are well organized, and there's no rioting. There's no threat of social unrest per se, because officials know that these people will go right back home.
It's commercialized protesting, and that's why nothing happens.
HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit
Taking my hat off, I admit to going to two No Kings protests. The reason for no rioting - older people in attendance. Older people just don't have it in them to riot. I am an "older" person - 57F - but I can't say for sure if I WOULD NOT riot.
blackcatcaptions@reddit
The protest is the place to recruit more people to organize. Bring disenfranchised libs further left. Join a leftist org or form an affinity group.
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
Organize what? Another protest?
micromoses@reddit
Organize the sort of things that are very dangerous to talk about online.
Bellegante@reddit
lol no, we just need a third party to replace democrats. Like a party that.. stands for something, tries to do something.
Right now democrats are the party of "we aren't republicans" and their platform is that they promise to be LGBTQ+ friendly and follow all the proper processes and procedures while funneling all the wealth to the rich.
The few Democrats that are transformative (Hasan!) are weirdly party outsiders despite their wild popularity.. because the donor class doesn't like them.
JMaster098@reddit
The fact that you genuinely think "Israel has a right to defend itself" Mamdani is transformative tells me EVERYTHING I need to know.
Bellegante@reddit
Just a casual google shows he’s been very pro Palestinian and the Jewish community is generally upset with him..
But you illustrate an excellent point; the left always has some purity test or another. It’s a problem.
HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit
He is the Mayor of NYC, which has a very high Jewish population. And by "Jewish" I am going to include, "Jewish" not being Zionist and pro-Israel. But I think you are aware of that.
ThatOneGuy444@reddit
Start working on getting Ranked Choice Voting passed wherever you are, if you want viable third parties
Mr_JohnUsername@reddit
The problem for Leftists generally is that for example, I agree with you for your first two paragraphs and I’m on board. Then you mention Hasan as transformative as if he’s a model to follow or listen to, and that’s when I get off again. Some of the stuff he says is okay, but that can be said about many. I think if the left is to actually rally we need to get away from putting people on a pedestal and put principles on a pedestal.
I can’t even begin to take Hasan seriously due to his own obvious wealth.
Bellegante@reddit
Ugh, well that's definitely at least in part because I named the wrong person there. Meant to reference Zohran Mamdani, current mayor of new york. Editing my comment, where I originally said "Hasan" in error...
That said, we can't move away from platforming people. As in, philosophically, it's impossible. Someone has to champion the principles, or the principles are meaningless. And, people are inspired by other people taking action in that it proves that those actions can be taken, and those actions can be popular. It's important to the human psyche.
It's also not how our political system functions. At the end of the day, someone has to get elected. It is, in fact, a popularity contest, for better or worse.
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
Not enough people are hungry enough yet.
ThatOneGuy444@reddit
www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/1sazyv4/food_pantry_network_across_the_midwest_abruptly/
and just wait until we start feeling the effects of the fertilizer shortage resulting from the invasion of Iran
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
Couple that with a hella nasty summer of insane temps and storms, and add on FEMA just sitting there with no budget to help. Like I've been saying, this summer is ripe for being revolution or civil war.
HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit
You are more sanguine than me. :(
sharksnack3264@reddit
But when they are hungry enough are the people who started organizing now or the people who decided at the 11th hour to maybe get involved most likely to leverage that into positive change?
blackcatcaptions@reddit
Organize mutual aid groups, community conversations, affinity groups that create pamphlets and zines, direct actions, organize with other leftist orgs like DSA or another leftist organization to get into local politics, political education, unions, building class solidarity and consciousness. We need a social revolution just as much as a political revolution. There's lots of work to be doing. Get going
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
The...DSA? Lol. Very revolutionary. None of what you list here is happening. What are pamphlets and zines going to do? Who is going to read those except the people who likely already agree with what's in them? Direct actions? Like what? Community conversations? Yes. More talk is what's needed. Talk yourselves right into another demonstration. Unions?? What unions??? Weak.
Prior-Tadpole-1860@reddit
I’ve been collapse aware for a few years, but I joined DSA after the last election because I saw the fascist writing on the wall and wanted to stand against it. My friends in DSA tend to look at me like I have two heads when I start talking about collapse, they seem to genuinely believe that if we got rid of capitalism then everything would be perfect.
I privately think they’re naïve and deluded, but I still get involved in things like mutual aid and anti-fascist resistance. I don’t think our society’s got too long left, but it’s always a good thing to build relationships between people!
JMaster098@reddit
They are deluded because they think their Zionist-ass, Democrat entryist group is in anyway a leftist organization.
Any "leftist" group that doesn't start off with teaching their members the importance of knowing how to fire a weapon (against the capitalist class) in the country with the most guns in the world is a waste of time.
blackcatcaptions@reddit
And what are you doing? I suggested a variety of actions. What do you suggest?
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
There is no way that I would ever discuss my personal actions or actions I would be willing to take online. I have groups that I'm involved with and have been for many years. I'd like to continue working with them.
Gengaara@reddit
A general strike or a civil war is the only way out. Every failed effort radicalizes more people. Hopefully we can go the general strike route.
HardNut420@reddit
A civil war in modern America would be crazy we would have the Epstein class to the east the petro capitalists to the west the crypto bros to the north and the trump guys to the south
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
Put all of our resources in the middle and stand back for Hungry Hungry Hippo.
King_Saline_IV@reddit
US is a decade away from being prepared for a general strike. And next year they will still be a decade away
ande9393@reddit
Striking as part of a union is a fuck ton of work. I cannot even imagine the logistics of a general strike in America. People need to eat and pay their bills and unless we abolish the entire system, once the strike is over so many people will just be more fucked than they are now.
Im all in for collective bargaining and community action, but there's hardly cohesive communities for people to fall back on. We need to create those community connections and networks if we have any chance of successfully having a general strike.
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
I think we have a higher chance of seeing civil war than we do a general strike.
Annual_Bowler5999@reddit
You’re correct.
FerrousFellow@reddit
and we still need to try to get them on board. They can also participate in other direct actions I won't outline here...
TheBroWhoLifts@reddit
"One can imagine the end of the world more easily than the end of capitalism." - someone or other.
rallar8@reddit
One of the most common precursors of revolution is active protests.
Like it’s one of the reasons why every time since occupy when the economy looks like it’s taking a turn all the elites slightly inhale… because they know there is all this pent up frustration and they aren’t viewed as legitimate.
But idk wtf this nothing burger stuff is, if you want to radically change stuff, statistically you live in America, you can buy arms… this isn’t complicated…
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
Right. "Active" protests. Which these are not. They're just permitted walks downtown for a few hours. Nothing is being disrupted. Americans aren't hungry enough for active protests.
I won't comment on your third point except to reiterate that Americans aren't hungry enough.
rallar8@reddit
genuinely, grow up, you won’t stand up and do what you proclaim you want, instead blame everyone else, stop posting or you know, do the thing you proclaim you want.
Posting about how other people are failing to live up to your standards is dying in grandma’s garage behavior.
FilmScoreConnoisseur@reddit
Wow, bafflingly stupid take.
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
What? Lmao. You know nothing about me.
Good luck out there kid. You're gonna need it. :)
no_one_lies@reddit
Not just protest!! They also recruit to coordinate on tweets and memes to boost “THE MESSAGE” in the algo.
That is very important, well, ummm because… we need higher online engagement to organize another protest!!
IM_NOT_BALD_YET@reddit
Mmmmm. Social media attention, merch sales, and more witty signs. That'll....uh, do something.
Pardot42@reddit
😭🤡
Teglement@reddit
Yes, the classically effective American leftist groups that have accomplished so much
matsu-morak@reddit
The lack of an American left is the reason the USA is a shithole and a worker nightmare
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Right, well you've got at least 10 million people now. How long until you've got enough to do something? What's the magic number?
Necessary_Sea_7127@reddit
Imagine if they all voted?!
curlofheadcurls@reddit
The idea is to keep getting people comfortable to manifest and hopefully we can get them to strike. However, no kings, indivisible, 50501, etc are all very suspicious to me. I don't trust them.
irpugboss@reddit
If you are genuinely baffled at the purpose of these large rallies / protests but not in an disingenuous way this is for you.
Consider for a moment that the modern generations of adults in the US have never had to be politically engaged beyond voting. Consider only the fringe right actively have militia minded, gun toting paranoia gangs since at least around the Rush Limbaugh rage and fear campaign.
Now taking these things into consideration, it takes time to get people to be the kind of citizen you need to go from no political activist muscle to revolutionaries which is what most confused/angry people seem to want to see.
These rallies are important to get people networking, feeling comfortable self-identifying which for liberals is not even common compared to MAGA which wear branded shit constantly. From here people feel emboldened and start to donate, participate outside of rallies, etc.
These are recruiting events and confidence builders.
Shitting all over these critical babysteps is either ignorant OR an intentional op to keep people feeling silly to never try and tear down others short of storming the palace kind of shit.
Don't fall for this, encourage others to participate, vote, do whats needed to be engaged however they need to engage. This activity snowballs so if 8m show up in the largest protest in the country it means more and more people are waking up and putting some level of skin in the game, eventually having the networks and communities for more resilience against whatever comes next even if it isnt perfect.
No-Durian4252@reddit
hear, hear!
dashingsauce@reddit
I remember scrolling past that headline on one post the next day or something, and then I actually used google to look it up, and it was real, and then I went back to what I was doing and nothing happened.
tehsmish@reddit
MaestroLogical@reddit
Yet when you call this out in the protest threads you get downvoted for daring to point out the obvious.
GoTeamLightningbolt@reddit
People are organizing for an actual strike in May 2028
https://www.may2028.org/
P_in_sf@reddit
Your stupid meme tweet post is meaningless too
P_in_sf@reddit
Community happens
deepasleep@reddit
It’s going to be a slog, only elections will truly change things.
ambelamba@reddit
America is tightly under control and that explains a lot. 🫥
EatMyShortzZzZzZ@reddit
Possibly the largest protests in history to have zero effect on anything
AdOriginal1084@reddit
Wins moms and signs dont bring change
Tolan91@reddit
If you keep shitting on what people are doing, even if you think it isn't worth it, people will just do less and things will get worse. Let it build.
PiLamdOd@reddit
It's not a protest. It's a demonstration.
Protests are threats by the populace.
A real protest would blockade government buildings or prevent critical infrastructure from functioning until demands are met. The French know this. When they protest, they shut Paris down. They clog the streets and grind the city to a halt until their government is forced to capitulate.
disharmony-hellride@reddit
And if we did that here a third of the population and half the news networks would call us thugs and say we hated America. This timeline sucks.
Ornery-Ear3037@reddit
But don’t they already do that? What’s the point of endlessly shrinking yourselves down more and more until nothing you do works. I’ve seen clips of people singing for the riot police and handing flowers out but those protests were still called ‘violent’. If you’re gonna be called this regardless (which is how propaganda works), why not make an actual material difference? They’re gonna do smear campaigns anyway, might as well do something real 🤷🏾♀️
bashthefash89@reddit
Exactly. They will do that whether people ball out or not. People will have to become brave and willing to take risks if anything is to change.
gdemon6969@reddit
Because people will die and most people still aren’t willing to lose their lives
True-Vast-3731@reddit
This is the threat that always keeps sheep in line. This is why they're complicit in their lives, even when it is objectively miserable because "Atleast I haven't invoked the powerfuls ire. I'm at alot less risk of dying."
Thing is at a certain point you have to start fighting for what matters in this world. If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything. And we are getting very close to a point where refusing to act is going to be far more painful than actually doing something.
I'm not saying go out there and get yourself killed. I'm saying stop supporting the dominant narrative just because it's "the safe option" and start supporting - actually supporting not just giving lip service to - alternative and much better ways of existing on this planet.
Ornery-Ear3037@reddit
Yeah that has always been a threat while protesting and revolutions in general and I totally understand the fear. But the point is that people are currently dying, so when is the time that people will no longer have anything to lose? As the contradictions continue to sharpen and living there gets harder and harder, Americans will only have two options: revolution or continued death and destruction. I just hope that the former is sometime soon.
I don’t think that all of these protests are completely useless or pointless, I just think that they need real organisation and concrete goals they want to achieve, because otherwise, it’s just a parade rather than an actual protest. They could serve as funnels into genuine action like mutual aid (that needs an end goal like getting more people into leftist theory and gaining class consciousness and solidarity so these networks grow, not just for the sake of it), civil disobedience and actual direct action.
Think of the civil rights movement with Malcolm X or the Black Panther Party, or other movements like Occupy Wall Street (which could’ve done something if not for the lack of cohesive ideological foundations, real leadership and concrete goals that made it easy for outside agitators to co-opt) or even the Black Lives Matter protests. Obviously of these need to be looked at with today’s hindsight in evaluating where things might have gone wrong (which has been done ad nauseam: another reason reading is a big part of making these things effective).
I really think that Americans could build real movements if there was a long term goal in mind and proper organising was done to radicalise people into actual action that has effects on the world (just look at the coordinate action European dock workers have been doing in stopping arms reaching Israel).
Just my two cents, but I do understand the fear. I just think it needs to be used as fuel for building a real movement. 8 million people is extremely significant, and it would be amazing if that could be used to do something. Everyone’s scared, I’d say people in the civil rights movement were too, and the people resisting in Gaza are probably terrified, but from a pragmatic point of view, there do need to be some sacrifices (not just life but of losing material comforts). Liberation is an uphill battle, and it certainly isn’t painless.
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Hglucky13@reddit
I try to see the good in it. Like, each time is a dry run, or a test. A way to show that the country as a whole CAN coordinate, and that the number of people willing to show up is getting larger. I will be interested to see how many people take part in the (one day) general strike. Again, I know it won’t mean much since it will go back to business as usual on May 2nd, but I think it’s important that people are continuing to try and are having these test runs for when we won’t really have a choice but to do the real thing.
Bazillion100@reddit
I’m not a fan of posts like this but generally agree/understand. I don’t expect these ‘protests’ to be effective at making change. Severe economic and political disruption is needed.
That being said, I have participated and still think its valuable. I’ve been able to connect with like minded people, made aware of local groups and other events to visit.
Also the power of just showing up. I believe the support for this administration is primarily fabricated (either by bots, foreign actors or the alt right media-sphere). Just seeing other real people show up in numbers is motivating to not just roll over and let them win.
Treesaregreen2@reddit
It’s probably because it was designed by zionists and was never meant to do anything except make people think they’re doing something. Protests tend to have demands and don’t wait for the weekend to take place.
84zx@reddit
Correct. It's a fake movement. 'No Kings'? How about no military intervention in West Asia in favour of Israel?
olduseryounguser@reddit
How about we talk like “no kings protest + your “better” idea instead of “my ideas as to why no kings is a failure + nothing else.”
retronax@reddit
Americans have yet to realize that the entire country could be out in the streets, if it's off work hours it's meaningless and no one has to listen to them
You can only threaten the rich and powerful through their money or their lives
WartOnTrevor@reddit
That's because there ARE NO KINGS.
LegSpecialist1781@reddit
I was talking with my daughter about this the other day. My contention is that protests don’t work on their own, but if you keep getting like-minded folks together, some more effective things CAN start to happen as a result IF there is networking and coffee-shop/living room discussions that follow. If everyone simply protests, keeps to themselves, and goes home, they are basically useless.
2032_girl@reddit
While I agree with the post, 2025 and especially 2026 have destroyed the notion of "nothing ever happens".
runthrough014@reddit
“Nothing ever changes” would be more fitting.
IndieStoner@reddit
When I masturbate in public, I get put on a list... but when a million people do it, they don't.
Blackwing_OW@reddit
I don’t know why you’d be expecting anything different. No Kings is a rally, and those have a place in large political projects, but they don’t make change in and of themselves.
Yugen42@reddit
US American protests are weak AF. No one would listen to you like that even in a democracy, let alone under an authoritarian regime.
aSackofSpoiledTuna@reddit
When the movement gets backed by corporate donors it's been effectively killed
Kind-Shallot3603@reddit
Not entirely true....everyone who went was traced by flick cameras and added to palanteer databases.
Amaya3066@reddit
They're glorified parties in the street where people pat themselves on the back for dressing up like Trump in diapers and dancing around. The "protest" movement in America is deeply unserious, infiltrated by those who want to maintain status quo, and are essentially political "get out the vote" rallies.
Bandits101@reddit
The “serious” protests go in with clubs and nooses and attempt an insurrection.
Amaya3066@reddit
How embarrassing, an astroturfed gathering of boomers drenched in American flags wandering around the Capitol for a few hours can cause more disruption than 8 million people in the streets.
khoawala@reddit
As long as people believe that democracy works, the spirit of resistance will be weak. When people believe the system represents them, the urge to challenge it fades.
boxyourbuddy@reddit
Maybe No Kings XVII will be the one.
artikzen@reddit
Followed by No Emperors III as a top-up.
TheBroWhoLifts@reddit
Follows by a hearty round of voting... ha ha just kidding. There won't be any voting. But I'm sure the Restore the Vote protests will be super duper successful.
truth-informant@reddit
The kind of protest that will work is to disrupt the economy. Companies need to feel an immediate effect. The problem is that this will not likely work because too msny people are paycheck to paycheck. Which, of course, is by design.
NyriasNeo@reddit
Yeh. Ditto for BLM. Ditto for Occupy Wall Street. Ditto for Rodney King riot.
Or just ask Al Gore, who has tried for decades and Greta, who has tried for years. We passed 1.5C and blew through 2C briefly. And "drill baby drill" won.
OptimusPrimeval@reddit
Idk man, at the most recent no kings protest, I walked around and talked to people tabling for different organizations working to actually make change. From there, I attended meetings to see if I feel like those organizations were the right fit for me, and I think i found one. Just bc you didn't see immediate change doesn't mean change isn't coming. We're still in the beginning stages. No kings is an opportunity to seek affinity.
HardNut420@reddit
It's not a real protest it's held on a weekend and doesn't disturb anything it's a this makes a mockery of real protests
Longjumping_Share444@reddit
Protests that aren't disruptive are pointless.
blackweebow@reddit
I beg to differ on this one.
My own parents, who have never been to a rally in their lives, have attended the local no kings rally this past weekend.
I think these local rallies serve to encourage civic paricipation and community interaction. It increases voter turnout against fascism by acknowledging pent-up frustrations over the course of this admin.
It's not to the scale of European protests (which by the way are the size of a single US State), sure. That doesn't mean rallies are useless. It allowed those who don't who what next steps they should take civically to be organized regarding overturning this admin in a non-revolutionary way. Mostly because tensions have not increased deep enough in certain communities to encourage the revolution we see in other countries.
People don't want to hear this, but most americans are still comfortable dispite the bitchass president we have now. Society has not yet collapsed (aside from specific ICE-surged states that have disrupted the community so severely they have no option but to organize i.e. Minneapolis). The admin has been strategic in their rollout so that they do not enrage the entirety of a community, only the left.
It's troublesome and discouraging, but change is coming. The primaries don't lie. Not saying we should not revolutionize, but i am arguing that avg people's lives have not yet been disrupted to that extent, thanks to some Chess by Stephen Miller and P2025
n3ws4cc@reddit
Yeah read kierkegaard
jez_shreds_hard@reddit
The problem is that there is little class consciousness in the USA and their is decades of anti-labor propaganda to contend with. Their is a movement, https://generalstrikeus.com/, that is the logical next step after protesting does nothing to change things. The problem is that most people refuse to take that step, because they are afraid of losing their jobs and/or they're conditioned to believe that strikes are not effective, due to anti-labor propaganda. I do get the fear of losing a job, but nothing is going to change without taking risks. General strikes, with sufficient numbers, have proven effective time and time again. If you want to do something, help us grow the numbers we need to enact a general strike. It's a much better option, in my humble opinion, than doing things we can not talk about on platforms like this one.
wwaxwork@reddit
So what you doing to organize protests? Seriously I'm curious.
formallyhuman@reddit
Marching and holding up placards and singing catchy slogans will get you exactly nowhere if the people you're protesting against don't care about you.
StatementBot@reddit
The following submission statement was provided by /u/DisingenuousGuy:
Submission Statement: One week after the biggest protest and the third installment of the No Kings Rally, everyone went home to perpetuate the economic system on monday as if everything is okay. A few upset tweets happen, some back and forth happens on Social Media, then a rumored General Strike on May 1st is "declared" and everyone posts as if the last several declarations of General Strikes since 2020 did anything. Then Trump did his special 20 minute speech, and everyone moved on. Nothing ever happens.
This was meant to be posted on Political Humor however I think I was blacklisted there from submitting images. It may be because a few years ago I really made splash on that subreddit with this one, and especially this other one. Both of which was well liked by this subreddit too.
IMAGE DESCRIPTION/TRANSCRIPT:
Meme Template: Drew Scanlon Reaction
First Frame: Drew looks at a top portion of a BBC News Article about the Third No Kings Rally being the largest ever, drawing 8 million people.
Second Frame: Drew closes his eyes as if to blink, and the right of the image is blacked out since his eyes are closed.
Third Frame: Drew opens his eyes and the News Article has turned into a Nothingburger, a burger bun with an empty air gap in the middle where the meat and fillings would have been.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1sbnn8m/nothing_ever_happens/oe4pghm/
fattmarrell@reddit
Ned Stark was eliminated for far less
emmc47@reddit
Climate change will be the equalizer, so any effort to change things is laughable.
Iamonslaughtt@reddit
“He who accepts evil without protesting it is really cooperating with it” - MLK
miklayn@reddit
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
rockb0tt0m_99@reddit
Pretty much.
DisingenuousGuy@reddit (OP)
IMAGE DESCRIPTION For the Visually Impaired:
Meme Template: Drew Scanlon Reaction
First Frame: Drew looks at a top portion of a BBC News Article about the Third No Kings Rally being the largest ever, drawing 8 million people.
Second Frame: Drew closes his eyes as if to blink, and the right of the image is blacked out since his eyes are closed.
Third Frame: Drew opens his eyes and the News Article has turned into a Nothingburger, a burger bun with an air gap in the middle.
DisingenuousGuy@reddit (OP)
Submission Statement: One week after the biggest protest and the third installment of the No Kings Rally, everyone went home to perpetuate the economic system on monday as if everything is okay. A few upset tweets happen, some back and forth happens on Social Media, then a rumored General Strike on May 1st is "declared" and everyone posts as if the last several declarations of General Strikes since 2020 did anything. Then Trump did his special 20 minute speech, and everyone moved on. Nothing ever happens.
This was meant to be posted on Political Humor however I think I was blacklisted there from submitting images. It may be because a few years ago I really made splash on that subreddit with this one, and especially this other one. Both of which was well liked by this subreddit too.