DSA Khan, 5+1 shotgun, would you buy it for car carry/self defence?
Posted by historyeeter@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 121 comments
Posted by historyeeter@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 121 comments
DAN3KE@reddit
Why not just buy a maverick 88 cruiser?
Few_Carpenter_9185@reddit
Because, having a PGO shotgun looks cooler when it's that 14" barrel plus the more horizontal birds-head grip maintaining the US non-NFA 26" OAL, than it does with an 18" barrel and a more 90° grip.
And the Turkish thing will possibly be even cheaper than a Maverick when it inevitably gets stolen from your car
DAN3KE@reddit
...........This makes it even less clear honestly.
VTCruzer@reddit
Keeping a gun in your car long term is so dumb
Few_Carpenter_9185@reddit
If it's cheaper Turkish stuff, and you don't have "STEAL ME!" stickers on your vehicle, like a: "Thin Blue Line Tooth Punisher Skull" A Magpul circle, or a "Glock Perfection" one...
Well, yeah, it's still dumb.
But I guess it's a little less bad. LOL.
VTCruzer@reddit
Yeah but then someone willing to break into a car has a gun
Few_Carpenter_9185@reddit
Yes. That is definitely the: "Still always bad."-part.
Grouse870@reddit
The 870 or 590 version are actually not nearly as bad to use as everyone is claiming. They do require practice (all guns do but these do require a bit more) if shot at eye level with a good push pull technique they are surprisingly useful. I’ve shot 3” magnums out of mine, shot clay pigeons and even successfully hunted rabbits with my 870 version. Demonstrated concepts has a full series on running a stockless shotgun and doing it to a high level. These absolutely don’t replace a stocked shotgun but they fill a nice niche.
Few_Carpenter_9185@reddit
Yes, with practice and technique, the short PGO shotgun ("firearm/other") that threads the loophole in American laws for NFA '34 SBS's and AOW's does work.
That the majority of buyers get it based on cosmetics, or that even the original Shockwave grip maker that figured the loophole, then Mossberg that went into full production, probably did so counting on the cosmetics too...
And 90%+ of the buyers never practice the techniques, that's not the short PGO shotgun's fault.
mikemitch38@reddit
I would not trust my life to a shotgun whose manufacturer I have never heard of. The style of shotgun is fine; I have a pistol grip Remington 870 that I keep for home protection, but I’m not using a gun for self protection that isn’t made by a reputable company.
Good-Hand-8140@reddit
Well bro, you have the privilege of having a legal, ultra developed domestic (and import) firearms industry.
I myself, trusted my life upon a Turkish Zoraki converted start pistol until u I got my hands on a tetejac.
Saudiaggie@reddit
Aren't they a US manufacturer of FALs too?
SurgeryWizard@reddit
This DSA is Pakistani
ThetaReactor@reddit
No relation to the American "D.S. Arms" that makes FALs. Their stuff is very well-regarded. If they made a mag-fed semi-auto shotgun I'd probably be into it.
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
They manufacture and export cimarron for US. While in Pakistan they supply to military and LEAs. Systems like automatic grenade launchers, dumb bombs, shotguns etc. it's a reputable firm from Pakistan.
But as a car carry is it (5+1 shorty) a good weapon.
imperio_in_imperium@reddit
It’s longer and heavier than the biggest handguns, meaning that it’s both hard to conceal and not going to be quick to draw and use. It’s a pump, so you’ll need two hands to get a second round in the chamber, let alone manage the recoil from a short-barreled, 12 gauge shotgun. And, on that note, it doesn’t have a shoulder stock, so, again, recoil is going to be a bitch and a half to manage. On top of all of that, it would be straight up illegal in most states.
So, unless you’re Mad Max or, by “car carry” you mean “hold it in your hands at all times, while sitting in the passenger seat, while someone else drives, in one of the states where it’s legal to have it” it’s probably never going to be a great option.
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
I travel alot into remote regions, offroading & hiking and had a bad experience years ago due to which I now carry a S&W. Now in my country we are allowed to carry any weapons as long as it is licensed including full auto SMGs/rifles. Now those aren't practical so I want something with stopping power and a bit of intimidation. I don't think a handgun provides that.
turdwranglers@reddit
How is that more practical than an SMG, especially an actual full-auto one?
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Try carrying an AK and your backpack with all the gear while hiking.. that's an overkill + and I'm not in a war zone.
That said you guys are right even this is stupid.. Id rather get something like a VZ61.
turdwranglers@reddit
That’s kind of what I meant though, an AK is much larger than a VZ61, most MP5’s, etc. and any of those would be objectively better if you had to use it. To your point, $$$$.
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Cheaper than a Glock here.
sdeptnoob1@reddit
Honestly bro a 9mm is probably all you'd need reading around. Now if you want that gun for fun but have to justify it with your gov sure. But a handguns gonna be much more comfortable for hikes and shit. But if you can legally carry a pdw that won't be that bad either.
curiousengineer601@reddit
If you are in the passenger seat you better be left handed.
BigHardMephisto@reddit
I bought a moss berg shockwave only because it was the cheapest 12 gauge at my local store and I needed one to keep in the ATV while we’re building fence on a new property, in a particularly rattlesnake ridden area.
For that sole purpose, this style is okay. Usually shooting at something less than twenty feet away, and it’s not in the way no matter where it’s set in the vehicle. Reliable with 2&3/4 inch shells.
I wouldn’t use this style of grip for any type of fighting to be sure, but against snakes it’s a fine trade off for the portability.
anActualGiantSquid@reddit
Reputable and Pakistan don't really go together when it comes to the firearms industry
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Reputable enough for Gulf and Asian countries and for NATO/ukraine
anActualGiantSquid@reddit
That still doesn't instill a lot of confidence
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
If it's good for Pakistan military or Saudis .. it's good enough for me.
likesweed@reddit
People wanna hate on Pakistan but they 100% have some legit manufacturers as you are pointing out. Y’all make better roller delay guns than we do here in the US lol.
I’ll say tho, for any cheapo new shotgun product line I’m gonna assume its low quality until proven otherwise, regardless of brand
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
People see some Khyber pass shit and think that's what we are all about.
As for DSA, they have like 4 year warranty. https://www.daudsons.com/
likesweed@reddit
I mean, I love the khyber pass stuff and wish we could get more of it here. I need some of those steel 5.56 ak mags y’all got
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Meanwhile here we wish we could have all those American made goodies that cost us an arm and a leg here. Grass is always greener on the other side I guess haha.
likesweed@reddit
Ain’t that the truth, lol. I don’t think I’d rather be a gun owner anywhere else more than the US, but full autos and khyber pass customs would be sweet.
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Id agree, and to give you an example of how shitty our situation is. A drum mag from Kalashnikov costs like 100 USD in USA (online listing), in Pakistan a used one would cost me over 1000 USD.
A Glock 17 is like 1700 USD... And I can get a used full auto AK in the same price or even a POF G3.. imports cost us like over 400% in taxes.
likesweed@reddit
Damn that’s wild, import restrictions/taxes are bullshit. Im a big ak guy, and I’ll say here in the US we’ve got our own litany of import bullshit driving the prices on certain thing’s ridiculously high too. Gotta love it
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Man I wish I could invite you here, I own alot of those.
likesweed@reddit
Hell yeah, genuinely wish I could too. I bet you got shit that would eclipse anything in my collection
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Well if you ever plan , you are always welcome brother.
likesweed@reddit
Likewise friend; if you ever find yourself traveling to Texas feel free to shoot me a message.
Mr_E_Monkey@reddit
Once, a long time ago, I was at a firing range with a Saudi military officer...cool dude, but let me just say that weapon accuracy and reliability were not a factor at all. He was much better with a skillcraft pencil.
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
My brother trained them in KSA, he said the same, however they buy the best of the best, spending more on defence than India and Pakistan combined.
Mr_E_Monkey@reddit
That...sounds about right. 😆
In all seriousness, I think that most guns from most manufacturers are reliable enough for most of what we need in civilian roles, and from what you've said, they sound pretty reputable, and it's also probably pretty hard to mess up a pump-action shotgun, so as long as it's a good fit for what you want it for, I say go for it, brother!
I would get some range time with it before you need to rely on it, if for nothing more than peace of mind. (Kind of a "trust, but verify" mindset, I guess.)
Highlifetallboy@reddit
So why are you even making this post? You have your mind made up and don't want to listen to anybody. Just go buy your dumb shotgun and be happy with it. That is until it takes a shit.
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
I haven't that's why I posted it in the first place.
Highlifetallboy@reddit
Your replies are just you arguing that it's an ok shotgun because the company also makes . . . grenade launchers and dumb bombs? Your arguments are dumb. Everybody is telling you that pgo shotguns suck, especially the budget ones from wherever the fuck. But you keep saying they are fine. So just go buy one already.
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
That's unless you buy a 60 dollar AK that fires Tokarev rounds boss.
Now if you buy from something like POF or DSA. And the manufacturer also sells in USA.
They used to export cimmaron to USA.
And also produce mk84 dumb bomb qnd grenade launchers to military.
LordRavensbane@reddit
But if I need a full auto 1911 in 7.62 tokarev I know where to go
KMGR82@reddit
Group buy time!
mikemitch38@reddit
It’s a great weapon, but you must train because it is easy to miss or pull your shots when you don’t have a stock and you want to make sure you’re used to the recoil.
thatoddtetrapod@reddit
OP has 85 posts in 1 month account age, and is asking a generic question with an obvious answer. Engagement bait much?
Hot-Opportunity8786@reddit
I was just thinking, “where can I find an unreliable, low capacity, heavy recoiling weapon that I can’t shoulder?” Thanks!
BrokenEight38@reddit
On this sub, the only proper response to that is something in 20mm.
Huskarlar@reddit
Actually my impossible dream gun the Solothurn S-18/1000 the 20mm semiautomatic antitank rifle weighing in at 118lbs is slightly less useless as it could be used to crack open bank vaults.
BrokenEight38@reddit
Probably great for car carry too!
sinisteraxillary@reddit
Armored car carry?
topshagger24@reddit
More like car towing, as there are wheeled variants.
Valuable_Risk_3414@reddit
*in your car
Davenator_98@reddit
Operating any longgun inside your car sounds awkward to me.
One that you can't properly aim or cycle sounds like straight masochism.
mrm00r3@reddit
Awkward and ^(eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee)
MojoCrow@reddit
It should be chambered in .32 French Longue
popodelfuego@reddit
If it'll accept them can run the mini shells.
diagnosed-stepsister@reddit
I thought about it for a while myself, tbh. I’m a lot more comfortable with shotguns than pistols.
But there were too many drawbacks - size, capacity, accuracy - and there’s almost zero advantages to shotshells over a 40 or 45. Maybe I’d consider a super shorty with a folding stock, but not when they’re $200 more than a decent 9mm.
Davenator_98@reddit
But are you comfortable with a shotgun that has no stock?
I never get this style of grip, there's no way in hell you can aim or reliably cycle it in a stress situation.
diagnosed-stepsister@reddit
Probably not, lol. And I was too cheap to order a birds head grip for my existing 12ga just to test it out.
This might be judgy, but I think most of their popularity is just the “cool” factor, if we’re being honest
Davenator_98@reddit
Yeah, it's a gimmick with little practical use, I remember Karl and Ian absolutely trashing the Shockwave back when it released.
Personally, I don't see the appeal making your shotgun look like a gangster's special.
There are lots of folding stocks that give you the same compactness without making it borderline impractical.
Responsible-Purple38@reddit
Daud Sons Armory (David and Sons Armoury) have some fun looking engraved shotguns.
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
They have also launched an AR, CR53
Responsible-Purple38@reddit
Yes I have been hearing a lot about those. Do you get DSA products in the states? I have that they export to other countries. Especially places in east Asia and Africa.
MicroSpiders@reddit
these are toys
Jarrellz@reddit
If I'm in an action movie sure. These fall into the category of movie props more than utility. Ex. Desert Eagle
Temporary_Border7233@reddit
No on every count. Unknown manufacturer, cant shoulder it, 2 hands to operate, reliably is Unknown, accuracy may as well be zero.
I literally see no reason how this would be anything but a range toy
_haha_oh_wow_@reddit
No thanks.
ChornobylChili@reddit
Most states would prohibit that for car carry. Great for HD esp if you put rifle notch sights on them
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
But if you could, this or a handgun.. which one would you us for that purpose.
ChornobylChili@reddit
A pistol. If were talking in a car. Thats gonna be impossible to use one handed and it might just shatter all your car windows from concussive force
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Travelling and hiking to be precise. Something with stopping power that I can also carry in my car and in my backback.
sdeptnoob1@reddit
Could get a 10mm or revolver if you wanted 4 legged large animal protection. Easier to carry anyway. Maybe the shotgun if camping.
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
I'm more worried about 2 legged animals, the bigger predators like bears and leopards generally keep away. I was almost robbed in a remote valley back in 2017.. I survived that shit by some miracle.
ChornobylChili@reddit
10mm JHPs
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Ammo would be extremely expensive and hard to find.
Davenator_98@reddit
What about .357 or even .44 Magnum?
You can get up to 8 shots, the option for quick double-action shots and have like a 3rd of the bulk.
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Id rather keep my 9mm.. more capacity, cheap and available everywhere.
Davenator_98@reddit
Then what do you need half a shotgun for?
If you can't rely on 15-20 rounds of 9mm to stop whatever jumps you, then nothing else that's carryable will.
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Stopping power, intimidation, small game/birds is a bonus
Davenator_98@reddit
You're not going to hunt with this thing.
One shot of 12ga has the same effect as 8 rounds of .22 short, I don't see any situation where you'd prefer that over 9mm.
"Intimidation" isn't a viable solution for defense, if you need a gun then the situation escalated already.
ChornobylChili@reddit
Can you not buy online?
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Nope.
The_Dirty_Carl@reddit
Really sounds like the answer is "9mm handgun".
If you're dead set on this thing, go for it. Just recognize you're not choosing it for practical reasons.
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
The amount of hate I got for this, I'm gonna keep my 9mm haha.
ChornobylChili@reddit
This go with 10mm. Hardcasts will stop any predator with good aim
Useless_Fox@reddit
Handgun. Not that I would ever car carry. I've had my window smashed before, I'm never leaving a firearm in my car unattended.
But the stockless shotgun is a weapon that takes a lot of practice and skill just to be... Usable. Even in the hands of an absolute expert, you're still arguably much beffer off with the handgun.
ChornobylChili@reddit
Yeah they really are like modern battle axes. Not everyone can use them properly
curiousengineer601@reddit
Agree that virtually any pistol is a huge upgrade over this thing for a car. So awkward to hide and use.
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Bro I will be using it more for hiking and camping and offroading
curiousengineer601@reddit
Again this is some cosplay stuff. No serious self defense class or police force uses pistol grip shotguns. They are a cool looking gimmick.
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Thank you, after the class here I'll prolly not be wasting my money on one either.
smegish@reddit
Years ago Ian and Karl did a video on In Range about stockless shotguns and whether they were better than a stocked one. They compared a stockless Mossberg (forget which model exactly) vs the identical mossberg with a stock vs a double barrel coach gun in a collection of shooting tests, and found that unless you had more than 2 assailants the coach gun was the best option. The stockless gun was only worth considering if you had serious storage space limitations. Firing from the hip was very inaccurate and if you actually aimed down the sights they had to hold it so far away from their bodies to not get smacked in the face when it recoiled, that it wasn't shorter and thus not better in confined quarters.
Gr144@reddit
I see you’re saying your planning on using this for hiking. I agree this everyone else that you would be better off with a pistol.
But let’s say a pump action 12ga “firearm” is a good idea for that use, why would you pick this over a mossberg shockwave or a Tac-14?
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
To be frank, budget .. a Mossberg would cost me over 2000 USD, this or another DSA shotgun would cost be like 300.
Gr144@reddit
Ahh ok, I am assuming you’re not in the US then. I would still recommend a handgun if that is an option. But if this is the only compact weapon in your budget I guess it’s better than nothing.
bobbomotto@reddit
No, I don’t want a Khyber Pass Shockwave clone
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
It's now a Khyber pass weapon. https://www.daudsons.com/
kwead@reddit
you forgot to include #ad
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Why the download bro? You this sensitive
historyeeter@reddit (OP)
Bro I'm a lawyer , I don't work for them..
kwead@reddit
even something as dumb as a .410 revolver is more practical than this
justaheatattack@reddit
it's not gonna fit under the seat.
_That_Guy_in_AZ_@reddit
If I wanted something for a niche single use role like breaching, then yes I'd get something like that but it would be either a Remington or a Mossberg. Other than for knocking door hinges and knobs off, not much else for a use with me.
ImportantBad4948@reddit
Fits fully assembled into a variety of bags. Is a solid hotel room gun.
_That_Guy_in_AZ_@reddit
Pointless when it's not well suited for anything else but for breaching. Needs a stock or it's a solid waste of money on a useless gun.
You are free to think otherwise but your opinion doesn't trump mine. However I don't need to be told your narrative because if you have to make up one then it's not a good narrative at all.
Also, my Sig Rattler fits in a lot of bags too, So does my G45 and it's a better option than that noise maker 12 gauge with limited ammo and crappy ergonomics.
lottaKivaari@reddit
Yeah literally any POS PCC is better than this POS. I also love the Terminator but I have (begrudgingly) accepted I am not a robot from the future and would need something that can be handled with human ergonomics.
Davenator_98@reddit
So does literally any handgun.
Even dual-wielding them would be more practical.
BrokenEight38@reddit
What is this, r/guns?
Davenator_98@reddit
Should be on r/cursedguns
anActualGiantSquid@reddit
Look, I can get a Maverick 88 for the same price as your mystery shotgun, and I'm 100% confident it will work every time.
RacerXrated@reddit
I'd rather just have my pistol.
Begle1@reddit
This is one of the worst form factors for a firearm and I have zero use for one.
-Signed, my bleeding nose
Particular_Room_933@reddit
I'll stick to my 590 Shockwave
TheGreatSockMan@reddit
I’d probably buy one on an eco round to camp the corner of long doors or to hide in pit with
Jayson330@reddit
I mean if it's good enough for the Pakistani Armed Forces. DSA seems like the Norinco of Pakistan.
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