There seems to be a lack of consensus on the best shotgun barrel length for defense against drones
Posted by SPECTREagent700@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 31 comments
It is not uncommon to see soldiers on both sides of the war in Ukraine to carry shotguns for last ditch defense against drones. While there does seem to be an agreement that a 12 gauge semi-auto is the best choice (pump action and civilian O/U hunting shotguns are still commonly seen but this seems to be more for lack of other options), there also seems to be an growing consensus that #6 tungsten birdshot is the best loading, there does still seem to be some disagreement as to barrel length, exemplified by Benelli’s dedicated anti-drone version of the M4 being offered in both 18.5 inch and 26 inch barrel lengths.
BloodRush12345@reddit
I think that is more a function of the same considerations as the carbine/rifle debate. Full size is better for wide open and static positions, shorter is more convenient for urban/vehicle/forested situations.
Historical-Count-374@reddit
Then the answer is Modular
GoldfishDude@reddit
Like shotguns have been for generations 🤔
Historical-Count-374@reddit
They had no purpose other platforms didnt do better. But we have come full circle, and now we will see high tech, likely modular, shotguns
Begle1@reddit
Provided it's anything like shooting sporting clays, why not start with a Beretta A400 with a 28" barrel as an ideal and go from there?
Nobody is seriously shooting clays with a protruding pistol grip, optic, or 18" barrel. Talk about reinventing the wheel.
GoldfishDude@reddit
A lot of it is also tradition. Most people that I know who are serious about busting clays use an over/under.
An optic can be pretty damn good for clays. I have one mounted on an A300 Competition and it does the job
lique_madique@reddit
Because it’s still a combat shotgun needed for versatility so weight, barrel length, combat adaptability, capacity, reliability, ability to add optics, etc. still matter.
Begle1@reddit
"Shooting drones isn't hard enough already, so here, use this gun that wouldn't even be suitable for skeet or trap. Godspeed!"
There's a point where you're starting so far down such an uphill battle I seriously feel it's approaching the "why even bother?" category.
Although it is fascinating to watch, because it's the biggest necessary innovation within the firearms community in a long long time. Some of the ammo alone is really neat.
Begle1@reddit
It'd probably make the most sense to give up on the idea of ever shooting down crossing drones... If you only focus on loitering or coming- right-at-you drones, it gets a lot easier. And even with the best setup possible, the odds of hitting crossing drones are likely too low to be relevant anyways.
mp8815@reddit
As you stated, these are a last ditch option so there's truly minimal research being done. There isn't to my knowledge a well researched number, but anecdotally the ratio of stop drone to get blown up ain't great regardless of what shotgun you're using. I know from a us civilian perspective a shotgun is likely the best we can do, but the future of antidrone warfare is electronic warfare capabilities not shotguns.
Q-Ball7@reddit
These shotguns are memes and this is just a marketing stunt.
The future is automatic CIWS systems that dump hundreds of rounds of .22LR/#4 equivalent, not training soldiers on skeet shooting. EW can help, but EW is not stopping the TOW missile-equivalent drones running on long spools of fiber optics (and the like).
a-Snake-in-the-Grass@reddit
The only possible benefit to a longer barrel would be to improve the swing.
Bad_boy_18@reddit
I think the future is really long barrel bullpup shotguns with smart optics
InitialLandscape@reddit
Honestly, the future of anti drone shotguns will probably be in their optics. Smart sights that can spot the drone at a distance where the operator can only hear it, calculate it's speed and distance, and project a crosshair in front of the drone that you'd have to shoot.
GigabyteAorusRTX4090@reddit
At the point youre basically giving your soldier a sight with a AA ballistics calculator, you can surely already take the human out of the equasion right? Like take Boston Dynamics dog bot thing, mount an automatic shotgun thing turret on it and you got a portable anti drone system that will not get tired or miss.
mattumbo@reddit
They have a system like that for infantry rifles, I still question its ability to hit drones at more meaningful ranges but it’s a sweet bit of kit either way. Basically a radar synced to a smart optic and a trigger disconnector so the user can hold the trigger and follow the optic onto the target at which point it will fire the gun automatically when the gun is pointing at the right spot of sky to score a hit. Problem with mounting that on a shotgun is you’re still range limited by the shell type (which can be pretty far with heavier loads but I imagine dispersion is going to become too wide), if the system can be made to work reliably enough a rifle may actually be the better choice for the range advantage.
loogie97@reddit
I have yet to try a shot gun with a genuine optic. It seems like a much better option than flat iron sights with a ball on the end.
Revolutionary-Wash88@reddit
I highly recommend the ghost ring setup on the 590a1, it's so much easier to see. Most people can hit a 100 yard bullseye on their first attempt from a bench and it works very well for moving targets
Begle1@reddit
When you're shooting flying targets, provided there is any crossing motion such that you need to lead the target, conventional technique is to focus your eyes hard on the target. The bead and barrel of the gun live in your periphery and provide your brain with a critical reference point, but your eyes are intently focused on the target, while the part of your brain that evolved to throw rocks and spears works subconciously to calculate when you need to pull the trigger.
Using an optic for flying targets is possible... You can use a red dot as basically a super-bright glowing bead, where the reticle is still living in your periphery while you focus on the target... But to my knowledge nobody has had big-stage success with such a technique.
Begle1@reddit
Such an advanced optic would also remove the advantage of a longer barrel, while rewriting the whole book regarding successful wing shooting. It would be an excuse to reinvent the wheel as far as shotgunning goes.
gabejohnizzle@reddit
The barrel length doesn't do anything for patterning, it's largely the choke and wad. Longer barrels do help with point shooting and follow through on flying targets. Bird hunting 101 stuff here guys.
Lu1zBeast@reddit
I've done a lot of research on this, between an 18in barrel and 24in you're only gaining about 100fps in velocity. Not much benefit for added length that hurts maneuverability on the battle field. The only benefit to longer shotguns is better balance when swinging to shoot birds or skeet. Shot group can be adjusted via a good choke. Also the Benelli AI is a gimmick to upcharge like a mother fucker because it's "anti-drone" even though it's just a regular shotgun with a red dot added.
Begle1@reddit
Top clays shooters all have 26"-34" barrels for a reason, and you are correct in that the reason is certainly not ballistic.
But balance isn't the biggest reason either. While important, you could ballast a shorter barrel to recreate the balance of a longer barrel if you wanted.
The biggest advantage of a longer barrel is that it gives your brain a longer reference point to help line up the shot.
Even though you aren't supposed to be looking at the barrel while you are shooting a shotgun, your brain is still paying attention to it and knows where it is pointing.
Almost everybody will shoot better scores with a 28" barrel than an 18" barrel.
Psipone@reddit
what's special about the anti-drone M4?
SPECTREagent700@reddit (OP)
https://www.benellidefense.com/product/m4-a-i-drone-guardian-185/
Revolutionary-Wash88@reddit
Patented larger and longer cone to improve the performance of the ammo sounds like a choke
Temporary_Border7233@reddit
I would estimate a 20 inch barrel with a full choke. Long enough for distance and shot pattern where most people would realistically see/hear a drone but not so long it becomes cumbersome in a confined space
Accomplished_Neck457@reddit
I didn’t tally them up or anything, but photos of Russian and Ukrainian anti-drone teams seem to feature a lot of really long barrels and quite a few “average” photos ones, not so many short ones.
_pxe@reddit
Longer barrel for fixed positions and shorter barrel for carrying. A longer barrel is better but it's difficult to carry around while moving between vehicles/fortifications/destroyed buildings.
TheSlipperySnausage@reddit
If you ever shoot skeet or bird hunting you’ll know barrel length is very helpful. More important is the choke.
In the end an 18” shotgun can handle the job. But a longer barrel is better for any bird hunting
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