Black British people: have you ever received critical comments from Black people in the US?
Posted by atzucach@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 604 comments
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ok2888@reddit
America a lot more racist in general for obvious reasons. White people and black people still a lot more segregated over there and so there's a lot more animosity from both groups towards eachother.
Black people in the UK will have had a lot of interactions with white people growing up/white friends etc whereas in some black communities in the US it's possible to literally not know a single person who isn't black. Also the fact that a lot of white people over there are still REALLY racist obviously doesn't help the situation.
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
Are you suggesting white people in the UK aren’t racist to black people? Why are we Americanising racism?
ok2888@reddit
Well they can be obviously but nowhere near to the same extent. Kind of a dumb question in all honesty.
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
Not a dumb question at all. I’m reading these comments in awe because you white Brits have convinced yourselves that racism, especially towards black people, is an American thing. It’s not. Just look at the racist abuse sent towards the black community due to the Clapham incident over the last 2 weeks. Go on LBC and read the Instagram comments on that post. The racism we experience gets downplayed because of comparisons to a country across the pond. “No blacks, no dogs no Irish” was just written on a bus stop last month.
ok2888@reddit
No one's denying that racism in the UK exists and is an especially prevalent problem at the moment, all I'm saying is it's even worse in America, which it definitely is. Those people writing racist comments on the clapham incident are not part of the "Silent majority" they are part of the very loud minority. The vast majority of white British people do not care if someone is a different race. It just looks that way because no normal person is writing comments on LBC news articles, they have better things to do, so the only people motivated to write comments are low IQ racists who are very easily misled to believe racist things.
About a year ago some bloke was shouting racist abuse at a black bus driver, and 3 construction workers at the back, all stereotypically white working class British, literally physically kicked this guy off the bus for being racist. He went flying. That is how the majority of people are here.
blamordeganis@reddit
That’s true, but also America seems to have a non-trivial number of black judges and black generals and so forth, which we seem to lack.
Any_Foundation_661@reddit
Now adjust for size of population - the US is about 5x as large as the UK and with a substantially higher proportion of black people too.
To state more plainly - they have more generals. They have more black people. Of course they are going to have more black generals.
pointlesstips@reddit
You touch upon something interesting there. I think it's closely related to the historical approach of ethnicities between Britain and US.
MrSam52@reddit
14% of their population vs 4% of the UKs it would be expected that they would have greater representation.
robthablob@reddit
Don't really get why you've been downvoted for stating facts.
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
I’ve noticed they don’t quite understand that the Gen X black people of this country weren’t segregated.
They refuse to believe that my Mother grew up on white music
Chemical_Ad_1618@reddit
Segregation happened by law in the USA, different entrances for whites and blacks, and different sections on buses and here there wasn’t.
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
Read up about the colour bar & Paul Stephenson. It happened here, which resulted in the Bristol bus boycott & then contributed to the race relations act of I think 1965. Pubs turned away black and brown people all the time. Just wasn’t a law & not the same scale of America.
Chemical_Ad_1618@reddit
Yeah I knew pub signs were “no blacks, no Irish, no dogs”
I’ll read up on the rest.
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
Honey I study history for fun, you don’t need to talk at me about segregation
Martipar@reddit
They also don't seem to understand that people in the UK didn't have specific "black" programs unless they were imported from the USA. Sister Sister, The Fresh Prince, Kenan and Kel, The Cosby Show etc. it was normal to have both some representation in all programming not just a token black person or token white person.
Then again I've found people who don't consider this segregation as people from all backgrounds watched as if it was okay to have monotone causing as long as the audience was mixed.
kimbastern@reddit
It wasn’t segregation to have those those shows. They were a response to the discriminatory attitudes of American TV. They were a god send for black people around the world.
The case study of why Friends existed, is exactly why those shows were needed.
I don’t consider the UK a good example of integration on the topic of media representation of Black people in any generation.
Entfly@reddit
This is so fucking hilariously American and so out of touch it's mad
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
Nah it just shows how you don’t understand black people & the importance of positive media representation. Positive depictions of black people in media? Of course it was a godsend for black people across the world. You do realise Africa and Africans had a very negative depiction? As a “dark continent” with constant strife. No happiness. Yet we could see people who looked like us having fun & living life in America. The place of the American dream. Don’t talk about what you don’t know, it’s not your experience and that’s okay
kimbastern@reddit
How so? Please explain?
Kirstemis@reddit
Other countries make their own shows. You really think the sub Saharan countries had to wait for Fresh Prince to see Black people on telly?
kimbastern@reddit
You can ask any West African growing up in the UK at that time where they found representation on tv. It certainly wasn’t UK tv. You can also ask people on the African continent about their relationship with African American Media.
This is the lived experience of many people, not all, but many.
I’m not too sure why it’s so triggering to learn that a global diaspora population would find relationality with each other through media that showcased their unique experiences.
These show all had a massive impact on people, even people from other races such as Asians, can tell you how seeing these shows impacted them.
So why would it not impact the very race represented, the very race struggling to see themselves in media, wanting to there their stories told.
Mind you, we were also watching white Americans media, many continental Africans can also tell you about Bold and the Beautiful and Young and the Restless, As the World Turns, Dawson Creek, One tree hill to name a few.
GaijinFoot@reddit
But it's the same channels making the shows.
robthablob@reddit
Yes, the existence of Desmond's in no way offset the existence of Jim Davidson.
nicotineapache@reddit
Like how Red Dwarf has 2 black main cast, and of course it's never mentioned in the show. At all. Lister isn't even portrayed as having "black" taste, he's just Lister. Cat isn't a black man, he's a Cat. His ancestors were Cats, he's descended from Cats. He is a Cat.
Expensive-Estate-851@reddit
Bugger me, I don't think I even noticed or gave that a thought. Read the first half and thought two?
TheDarkestStjarna@reddit
I was the same, although Craig Charles is mixed race rather than black which may be why it didn't register in the same way.
wotapalava@reddit
I met Danny John at a comicon, nice guy but shorter than I expected.
nicotineapache@reddit
Should've turned up earlier then
trysca@reddit
He is a Cool Cat
Empty-Question-9526@reddit
Its also strange that when they tried to make it in America twice it almost turned into white dwarf, linwood boomer (he of malcolm in the middle fame) wrote and produced it and they got hinton battle to play cat in the first version. When it failed and they made a second pilot the role of cat went to a white lady. See pic below. The only original cast member was Kryten played by Robert Llewellyn.
https://reddwarf.co.uk/features/history/red-dwarf-usa/
L00ny-T00n@reddit
Owwwwwww!!!!
nikhkin@reddit
Having grown up with Kenan and Kel and Fresh Prince, it never occurred to me that they were produced to specifically target the "black audience".
They were just shows.
mrbezlington@reddit
Kel looooooooooves orange soda!
R00ts_Dreamland@reddit
This is an insult to Desmonds
butterflyrattle@reddit
Does anyone remember The Real McCoy? I think it was one of the first all black comedy sketch shows, had some great jokes on it!
Special_Earth_4957@reddit
i believe bbc put that back up on iplayer recently
DuaneDibley@reddit
It was also the launchpad for Asian comedy programming I think as it had skits from Meera Syal and Kulvinder Ghir who went on to do Goodness Gracious Me
butterflyrattle@reddit
Yes I think they were on it too!
I think goodness gracious me also started out on BBC Radio 4, but it def helped paved the way for them to get their ideas out there!
Also, what about Lenny Henry’s various shows over the years? His Michael Jackson impression was great!
Due_Tailor1412@reddit
Desmonds was one of my favorite programs growing up I never thought of it as a "Black program" just a program with Black people in it .. Would you say that (from the same period) Blackadder was a "White" program ? There were people, we loved them, they were funny ..
Special_Earth_4957@reddit
Desmonds had such broad appeal, i think it's more accurate to say it was a working class program more than a black program. I grew up watching it and all my white and black friends watched. It was a show for everyone.
sheepandlambs@reddit
There are some people who absolutely would.
Euphoric-Source4086@reddit
Desmonds was awesome, my wife and I always tuned in to watch it, and we are so white we are almost transparent.
Never actually thought of it as a "black" show though, just a show about mostly black people, if that makes sense.
Weewoes@reddit
Even my partner who grew up in northern ireland which was very white back in the day watched the Desmond with his family with fond memories of it, just wasnt seen as anything but normal.
Nickye19@reddit
Yeah 90s Belfast there was one mixed race girl in my primary school, granted rather loyalist area. Who was treated like a freak by many of the parents
Shipwrecking_siren@reddit
Yeah I love that I grew up with this being totally normal. My mum didn’t see a black person until she moved to the UK at 18 (when she told me this, her voice sounded like it was as magical an experience as seeing a unicorn), whereas I grew up with it just being another funny program on after tea.
She had a very religious and sheltered life but would let us watch absolutely anything, except Grange Hill, as she thought we’d get “common” accents. She knew first hand how much an accent could influence your fortune in life, so was fixated on us speaking well.
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
My Mother has an old middle class accent, mixed with her Stoke upbringing. She said when they went to Nigeria to meet their older siblings, they were shocked at My Mum’s accent
Martipar@reddit
Alright. I concede, however Desmond's was an outlier, it wasn't part of a larger area of black television. In the UK you were more likely to have a black family in a soap opera or a black family in a sitcom rather than making the whole thing just black or just white.
mongrldub@reddit
You were more likely to have one in a sitcom than you were to have one in your community tbh
Martipar@reddit
I grew up in an affluent area (Leamington Spa) with only a small amount of diversity but we still had people in my class who were Sikh, Muslim and Black. I'm sure inner city children were more diverse and very rural areas were less but to deny them at all would be wrong.
Veflas510@reddit
I grew up in North Wales. I didn’t meet any black people until I was in high school when 1 black dude joined our year. Not going to lie, uni was a culture shock.
Almost_human-ish@reddit
About 8 years ago I was living in Devon, and a mate from Jamaica came to visit and stayed with me for a week...
Had a young guy at work, fresh out of Exeter uni say that he'd never had a black friend, in a tone of curious wonder about it.
Got stared at in more than a few pubs, like properly people just stopped and openly stared like I'd walked in with 3 heads and a fucking unicorn.... And a few stares of the kind that made me tell my mate to go into the pub garden and I'd get the beers.
We were walking along the beach one afternoon and the police helicopter started just hovering overhead, my mate was laughing say "they're probably on the radio saying 'there's a black guy here, what do we do?'".
I was actually kinda shocked tbh, I met the guy when I was living in London, and yeah there was a lot of racist shit up there, but it was also more relaxed in a way.
It's like all of Devon is mildly racist, but not maliciously though if that makes sense, it's more ignorance as they just have never really seen or met black guys before.
shortandfelly@reddit
My primary school in a small village in Somerset had one Black kid, he joined partway through. 1 in 150 kids. My secondary school (1500) probably had fewer than 10 kids who weren't white, and I can only remember two (siblings) who were Black. I don't remember anyone caring at all, but I think we did wonder if they felt like they stood out.
adymann@reddit
The white female American student who was on a school exchange who joined us in class for a month caused more of a public commotion than any other kid.
dwair@reddit
I agree with you. TBH, Devon and Cornwall are freakly 'white'. I think the reaction people get is more just 'Wow! A black person. That's different!' coupled with a lack of knowing how to behave around someone who looks different simply because there are so few other types of people. I don't think there is generally any malice attached.
I honestly doubt many of my neighbours have ever spoken to anyone who doesn't have a similar white Cornish farming background to them, not for any other reason bar opportunity. Even people from Exeter 40 miles away are viewed with 'interest' where I live.
At least that's how I hope it is.
I'm white so I'm really just guessing based on my own experience on the other side of the fence. I grew up in various African countries then spent most of the last 40 years working all over the continent before ending up in the far SW down in rural East Cornwall. I don't think I ever encountered much actual racism being the only white face in a sea of black ones abroad, but I know and am very aware what it's like to visually stick out, and everybody be very interested in you, who you are and why you are there.
CillaBlackInDisguise@reddit
I’m a Scot living in Plymouth.. my dad’s side of the family are all from here, I’ve been coming down to visit once a year since the early 2000’s.. there’s much more diversity here now than before. There’s loads of black folks here nowadays
Almost_human-ish@reddit
Similar upbringing tbh, spent my young years until about 16 living in various middle east countries.
You're not wrong really it can still be very parochial round these parts, but it's definitely lack of contact rather than malicious. Yes there's the odd numpty racist prat but...
I mean I know a couple of people in their 50's who've never even been as far as London FFS.
ForesterDean23@reddit
I was born in Devon and brought up in Okehampton right slap in the middle of the county. At school one day the tannoy announced could any boys who play for the school team age 14 or 15 stay behind as a team from a school in Birmingham was touring and has had their game fall through. They’ve phoned around a bit and our school has agreed to play them. I turned up at the pitch and we saw we’d managed to get a team together so all good, there would be a match. Then we watched the Birmingham bus arrive and they started getting off. Holy crap, a black kid! Another one! Another one! Every single one of the Birmingham lads was black, and I genuinely don’t think any of us had ever seen a black person before. This would have been 1981 I think. We just stared at them in wonder. Looking back on it I guess they’d been in Devon long enough to realise people might be a bit taken aback at first, and they cut us the necessary slack. Then someone said ‘alright lads?’ and someone else said ‘you lot sure you’re 15?’ (they were big lads some of them) and friendly chat started up and that was that. After a while it was just like any school game I suppose, but I still remember the genuine shock of that moment.
mantolwen@reddit
Leamington was actually one of the most welcoming towns for immigrants from the Indian subcontinent. We have a good sized community and a huge Sikh temple.
Randa08@reddit
I was born in 77, my high school of 1200 had 2 back students who were brothers, one a year below me and one 3 years ahead.
mongrldub@reddit
Not denying them but overwhelmingly urban distribution
Geordana@reddit
No word of a lie. I moved back to my rural village 10 years ago and was surprised when I saw a black person in the pub.
Growing up I was very much one of only 3 brown people in the village. The other two were my brothers.
butterypowered@reddit
Which is why TV/film can be great (or terrible) for setting expectations and prejudices.
And why it should be okay to have more variety than there is in real life.
mongrldub@reddit
Yes and no. I think shows like Desmond’s/the Cosby show did an awful lot for integration.
Post 2020 particularly in advertising representation got a little overcooked in a way that I think was actually quite cynical - the illusion of diversity to sell products to make money mostly for white people etc
BillWilberforce@reddit
Not in London.
opopkl@reddit
"Love Thy Neighbour" has entered the chat.
LupercalLupercal@reddit
First black family in Corrie was 2019
sheepandlambs@reddit
Only Fools and Horses prided itself on being multicultural, showing the "real" Britain/London, rather than being a sitcom about Mr and Mrs Jones who live in a cosy suburb.
Sad-Performer-4833@reddit
Lenny Henry also done the Delbert Wilkins show for a season or 2 - it was ok
ShortFlamingo3409@reddit
I grew up on that and never even noticed it was meant to be a black program. It was many years later that someone pointed it out to me and I'm not sure how I missed it 😂. Can still hear the theme song.
Baddog1965@reddit
I was about to say 'Desmonds'. To the surprise of the programme's creators, it was just as popular in places with almost no black people such as the Scottish Islands.
Airurando-jin@reddit
I could never hear ‘Pork Pie’ without the way his name was always said in Desmond’s. Gee up on that as a white kid. It was a good show
JamesyUK30@reddit
Pwork Pieeeee
Substantial-Mouse534@reddit
Also, 'The real McCoy'.
OK_Cake05@reddit
Real McCoy too
Sad-Performer-4833@reddit
Real McCoy was great - I loved the "Rankin John Major" also "Call Micky"
DrFriedGold@reddit
And The Real McCoy
Most_Moose_2637@reddit
And The Real McCoy.
pajamakitten@reddit
I am white but still loved The Fresh Prince, Kenan & Kel and Sister Sister. Maybe it is me being young at the time but I never really considered them black specific programmes. I understand the representation as an adult, however they were just sitcoms to me a kid.
lostinOs25@reddit
Me too. I'm white. I watched Kenan & Kel (who loves orange soda), Clarissa Explains It All, Sister Sister, Fresh Prince, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Saved by the Bell, I never thought of these as black/white shows. They were just shows that reflected teenage life, all of the shows tackled racism at some point, and it was viewed from the main character POV so that was always educational. But I never felt like 'oh this show is aimed at only black people so I shouldn't really be watching'. It actually feels like society has gone backwards, we've gone from being inclusive, on the brink of actual equality, to almost a 1950s racist society.
BastardsCryinInnit@reddit
I would say and even then - those "black programmes" weren't marketed that way in the UK!
There's a reason my boomer white mum can rap the whole Fresh Prince theme. It's cos they were for everyone.
Dramatic-Ad-4607@reddit
Fresh prince being on as soon as i got home from primary school having tea and we would rap away to the opening. White scousers and im 31 now and me and my mum and nan still sing it whenever we have a random blast from the past conversation. Loved that show so much ! simple and good times
stpizz@reddit
This is true I guess, but I do distinctly remember watching them as a kid and having the feeling I was watching a show that wasn't "for" me. Like it was pretty clear to me as a kid that these were the black shows.
I think at the time I'd probably have said it was a good thing, like in a "why doesn't the UK have black shows?" sense, but I feel a little differently about it now I'm older.
That said, the UK has had (a few) shows that evoke the same feeling. I can't remember any sitcoms, but remember the ill-fated Big Narstie talk show a few years ago? I'd say that was the closest UK TV has given me to the same feeling (not in a bad way to be clear - I actually quite liked that show it was hilarious - but a white guy from Suffolk was not the target audience).
sausageface1@reddit
The uk didn’t have “black” programmes 🤣 you can’t even spell it the British way
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
They seem surprised when I tell them I grew up watching Fresh Prince, My Wife and Kids etc.
thegmoc@reddit
Because the assumption is that you had your own shows to watch
Djinjja-Ninja@reddit
That's because in the UK, those aren't black shows, they're American shows.
thegmoc@reddit
Sure. Just like rap isn't black music it's American music. But we can see which part of American culture it represents and it obviously resonated with Black Brits in a special way.
Weewoes@reddit
White rappers exist..
Kirstemis@reddit
We don't talk about Vanilla Ice.
FlyZealousideal7310@reddit
Eminem...
Rosaillery@reddit
Ummmm what?
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
No they always assume we didn’t get any American tv here
thegmoc@reddit
Well if you had your own shows would you need it? Believe, me, I'm Black American I know what other Black Americans are thinking.
We're surprised that you all would be so into our culture. Again, we're assuming that you're in Britain watching British shows like we're in America watching American shows, just like Mexicans are in Mexico watching Mexican shows and Indonesians are in Indonesia watching Indonesian shows and you get the point.
It's actually surprising to us to hear that you all grew up on American shows and not your own.
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
Mexicans are watching American shows..everyone in the world watches American shows.
We didn’t really have black culture till quite recently, fortunately. So we gravitated to African Americans
thegmoc@reddit
This is the thing right here. People don't know they and so assume you'd be watching your own shows rather than ours then get surprised when they learn the reality. It's a harmless assumption.
pajamakitten@reddit
Mate, this is hardly new. You must be really young and missed the likes of Dallas, Cheers, MASH, The Simpsons, Fresh Prince, Friends etc. being huge here. American shows being big here goes back decades.
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
It’s called ignorance.
thegmoc@reddit
Yes. In the truest sense of the word. Because why would people in the US be familiar with the societal dynamics of the UK? It's not really relevant to Americans daily lives in any way.
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
I’m well aware as an Englishman who is 50% Nigerian, that my Mothers family were very English and respected the Crown due to colonialism.
Americans should have the same dignity to their intellect as so to discern their cultural dominance across the Western world
thegmoc@reddit
It's very apparent to us now, believe me lol.
It became apparent to me when I lived overseas and all the Brits were making Simpsons and family guy references. Not even to mention the century-long influence American music has had on the UK.
Yes, people travel and see that everywhere in the world, especially Europe, American culture is being consumed and replicated. I was in France and saw an advertisement for a Black American gospel performance.
That's what makes it all the more confusing when people claim that Americans believe we're the center of the world. For the longest time we had no idea that the world, in fact, had been making us the center.
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
You’re to the modern world, what Rome was to the world of 100 AD
thegmoc@reddit
Moreso, actually. This level of cultural dominance is something the world has never seen thanks to modern media.
Bastrato@reddit
To be fair ive been places with literally no American influence and seen Man Utd and Arsenal football shirts.
thegmoc@reddit
I'm not saying other cultural influence doesn't exist. But I bet they listened to rock or hip hop there. Or know of spiderman, superman, or the avengers.
Bastrato@reddit
I presume you haven't spent any time in rural Southern India? Or Central Africa?
thegmoc@reddit
Oh I see your point. You're right
Tao626@reddit
I mean, that says more about how averse the US is to anything outside their US bubble than it does the UK for...Let me see here...Watching TV that gasp shows something from another country (eww).
The UK did watch UK made shows. We also had US imports, two of our most loved soap operas were Australian (one only surviving as long as it did because of its UK audience), a few Asian gameshows were broadcast here "as is" other than obviously necessary narration due to language barriers. We had various channels dedicated to foreign TV and film that just showed them as is with subtitles. Much of our popular kids media was from Australia, Canada, the US, Spain.
Not to mention UK TV personalities. We had various bits of media made for or including people of different nationalities. Sometimes you could glance at a show and somebody unaware would think "is this from India?". No, but the cast is, it's British.
The only imports we tended not to show as originally recorded were game shows, which makes sense if stations wanted English viewers to be able to enter as contestants.
Sure, the majority of imported media was from other English speaking countries...But then we take a look at the US which also imported shit loads of English speaking foreign media which, even though the original language was English, they still had to remake it for their American audience because they can't comprehend anything that's not American. They're too ignorant to the outside world and unwilling to not understand something to watch a show and use context clues to work out "ah, thong must mean flip-flop".
One of the most popular US comedies was the Office, a remake of a UK series for the US market because the US didn't "get" the UK version. If the Office was a US creation, we would have just shown it, not remade it.
Echoshungryhippos@reddit
I will say that while the US versions of some of our best shows were shit, they actually did a great job with the The Office.
pajamakitten@reddit
I find it the perfect show to have on the background on a night shift for some reason.
Tao626@reddit
I've never watched it, tbh, so I won't judge. I wasn't trying to use it as a good or bad example anyway.
I get the impression from others, though, that it started becoming good after it stopped trying to adapt the limited amount of source material to become its own thing...Which I totally believe as the vast majority of US adaptations have the same issue of being pointless near 1:1 recreations of the original with poor casting, shit delivery and changing words like "jam" to "jelly" as though it's an entirely different incomprehensible alien language.
I dare say most US remakes would probably not be total shit if they took the approach of the Office rather than just literally being imperfect clones, adaptations of an idea rather than literal remakes. The US versions of Red Dwarf, IT Crowd or Only Fools and Horses might have done well if they deviated from or got far enough to run out of source material.
Weewoes@reddit
The first episode of the US office is a shot for shot of the first episode of the UK office, after that it changes into its own thing and really works, I love it but its a different show for sure.
mongrldub@reddit
Black ppl are 3.7% of the U.K. population
They physically can’t produce enough culture here so it makes sense to consume black American culture
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
We never needed to because we integrated
mongrldub@reddit
Well, yes and no. Integrated within the urban environment yes. Rest of the country I’m not so sure how welcoming they are.
As for “need”, again not so sure. I’m sure we don’t have data for how much black American culture is consumed by black Brits v white Brits, but I’m gonna say anecdotally for millennials upward it’s probably disproportionately black Brits
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
I hope you’re not suggesting that we as black people only live in “urban” environments? Because my Mother and her siblings were raised Middle Class in Stoke….
mongrldub@reddit
Never said only, but if you look at the numbers it’s heavily urban
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
Not so much when my Mother was being raised no.
mongrldub@reddit
Yes so much. You can look it up mate. You can use the device in your hand. It’s not hard x
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
Your comment got removed, but I will say asking a black man whether he speaks English isn’t a good look
mongrldub@reddit
A good look mate we’re on reddit which is anonymous wtf is wrong with you
AskUK-ModTeam@reddit
Don't be a dick to each other, or other subreddits, places, or people.
Don't be a dick to each other, or other subreddits, places, or people. AskUK contains a variety of ages, experiences, and backgrounds - consider not everyone is operating on the same level or background as you. Listen to others before you respond, and be courteous when doing so.
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
Ahh I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware that you had say over where my people live
mongrldub@reddit
Do you not speak fucking English mate? It is fucking heavily urban. Look it up. Midwit.
thegmoc@reddit
Well American culture is pretty popular in the UK overall, so yes it does make sense.
ThereAndFapAgain2@reddit
In the UK people are watching British show bro what are you talking about lol
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
Firstly; I’m not your bro, secondly we grew up in the 90s watching American tv.
paulmclaughlin@reddit
Thirdly, you've replied to someone who was replying to someone else after you.
Comment notifications on the Reddit app are stupid now.
ThereAndFapAgain2@reddit
I grew up in the 90s bro, sure there was some american TV but that's not all there was lol most people were watching mostly British TV back then.
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
At what point did I say that’s all we watched? Though, yes as black people we had more affinity with black American shows
ThereAndFapAgain2@reddit
I think you need to read the thread again, you came in at me with you "Firstly, I'm not your bro" bs when I never even replied to you to begin with, and you seem to have totally lost track of where the conversation is at.
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
I only get direct replies in my feed
ThereAndFapAgain2@reddit
You clearly don't ffs just read bro.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/1sbeknb/comment/oe44vpf/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
I’m not your bro
ThereAndFapAgain2@reddit
That's cool bro.
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
What’s your day job?
ThereAndFapAgain2@reddit
Lol your comment got removed bro.
ThereAndFapAgain2@reddit
I shove square pegs into round holes, wby bro?
Bastrato@reddit
The BBC alone has made literal billions selling our TV shows to yanks. Do you just not have the ability to think critically?
thegmoc@reddit
I'm well aware that TV shows here have British origins, but they get adapted for the American audience. Not many British shows are transferred here directly, as is the case with American shows behind broadcast directly on British TV.
Bastrato@reddit
That's bullshit, the top 5 British TV shows in the US (viewing figures) are direct exports not remakes.
thegmoc@reddit
Ok man....whatever you say. You obviously are very emotionally invested in proving that Americans consume British culture.
Bastrato@reddit
Not really, I have lived in the US though so have seen the popularity of British TV 1st hand.
thegmoc@reddit
Ok well I guess I'm wrong then
blamordeganis@reddit
Why would we not want to watch good American TV?
Of course, we also watched a lot of shit American TV, because it was cheap. But the same is true of shit British TV.
Pick_Up_Autist@reddit
It's obviously a mix, were you oblivious to the global success of the Simpsons and the fresh prince?
thegmoc@reddit
Yes, I admit. I had no idea of the extent to which the world consumes American culture. Now I'm well aware that American culture is the bedrock for global pop culture. That's what happens when you grow up. You learn new things.
Normal-Height-8577@reddit
I mean...we were perfectly capable of watching both. Just because some of the good American TV filtered over here doesn't mean we didn't have any programmes of our own!
thegmoc@reddit
Yeah it's surprising just how much. That's the thing
BastardsCryinInnit@reddit
Remember Bradley Cooper and Heather Graham's looks when the whole Graham Norton audience knew every single word to the Fresh Prince theme? Bemusement!
The UK was fully Fresh Prince mad.
AnneKnightley@reddit
They’d play it in clubs at uni and everyone sang along it was so fun.
pajamakitten@reddit
People still talk fondly of it when reminiscing about the classic BBC2 line up from the 90s.
Current_Fly9337@reddit
I had this moment in the car with my teenager. Still no idea how he knew every word but he did and I felt so proud :)
slimdrum@reddit
When I was a kid in England there where kids from all over the world in my primary school and I saw other races no different to people having different colour hair than me the concept baffled me way in to my later youth
SailAwayMatey@reddit
Cut anyone open and you're the same inside. Why the outside matters is beyond me. I couldn't care less if anyone is the same as me, a different colour to me, whatever, it's who that person that matters to me.
BillWilberforce@reddit
Desmond's on Channel 4 in the early '90s was 90% Guyanese (South America/Carribbean, not Ghana in Africa as is sometimes thought). With about 3 "token" white characters but was watched by virtually everybody.
BiscuitBarrel179@reddit
As a white person I had no idea those were "black" programs. I honestly just thought it was general entertainment anyone could enjoy and I grew up in the 80s with "comedians" like Bernard Manning, Jim Davidson and Roy Brown shudders at the memory
TwistedBrother@reddit
Wait til they learn about Northern Soul and lose their mind thinking it was problematic rather than inclusive (and full of amphetamine).
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
Cultural appropriation! What with all those black guys wearing jumpers and spinning around back in the day!
PutAnEggOnIt@reddit
I'd say we can define music by class, wealth, nationality, but in Europe hopefully we've moved a little more beyond defining things by race
Dramatic-Ad-4607@reddit
I often always define everything by class sadly as i have a chip on my shoulder coming from a very low working class background to the point i paint everyone with the same "snob brush" and its not right i know.
Race and nationality doesnt come into my mind compared to how class does. Think i need to work on that
Dangly-Lingham@reddit
I love the music of the 80s/90s coming from the UK for this reason.
MiserableSympathy230@reddit
2 tone
Chemical_Ad_1618@reddit
I listened to eternal in the 90s and Louise said their tour in the USA was strange they wanted her to sit at a different table to the others because she was white.
Kirstemis@reddit
😦 how very 1940s
NotMyFirstChoice675@reddit
Americans are so culturally different from Brits it’s crazy. Language aside there isn’t much specific cultural crossover. So, for black Brits there is way more integration. Windrush generation faced racism but in the US the racism was actually enshrined in LAW. Therefore the lived experience and psyche are totally different.
catjellycat@reddit
This is true in all areas even away from race. The IS is a country where I had quite bad culture shock and what probably made it so bad was the confusing nature of it. If you go somewhere you expect to be different, your brain is primed. But the US? So odd. Oh look, there’s a 7-11. I know what a 7-11 is except I don’t, I’ve never been in one. These people are speaking English, I must understand them. except I don’t really had the same culture. It was so weird.
kittysparkled@reddit
My (ex) husband and I went into a WalMart because we heard so much about it from consuming American media. It was all a bit of a laugh and oh look! Twinkies! until we turned a corner into the gun aisle.
Fine-State8014@reddit
I found it weirder you could buy tyres just across from the apples.
AliisAce@reddit
Edinburgh has a lot of churches in groups
AngleOk8424@reddit
Holy Corner
onechipwonder@reddit
Churches every 2 junctions? Well... Norwich?
Airportsnacks@reddit
Suffolk as well.
spoo4brains@reddit
Am white and grew up in London, it was a major shock for me to visit relatives in a small town in Georgia years ago. I half expected to see the KKK riding down the high street. The hate or extreme distrust between white and black on both sides was very obvious. Was glad to leave and get back to the UK where we don't have that awful baggage.
Katharinemaddison@reddit
We do have that baggage it’s just that England and Scotland and then the U.K. kept it mostly off shore in the Caribbean in terms of British slave owners and of course trade with either slave owners. We had plantations as much as the Southern states we just also got to say we had no slavery in the U.K. even when the economy was practically built around it.
Enoch Powell invited people from the former plantation sites to come to this country to help rebuild after the war then made that infamous Rivers of Blood speech against such immigration. We’ve got baggage. We were just geographically hypocritical about it.
Curious-Scholar4692@reddit
Thanks for acknowledging Scottish imperialism!
Drives me nuts when they pretend they’re some sort of colonised Celtic outlier like the Irish even though they gladly and enthusiastically profited from imperialism.
In fact, a lot of the trouble in Northern Ireland was caused by Scottish colonisation.
Kirstemis@reddit
But what caused the Scottish colonisation?
It's almost as if the whole history of the world has been richer people exploiting and oppressing poorer people for their own benefit.
Curious-Scholar4692@reddit
I’m just talking as a nation state. Everyone blames England for all imperialism and Scotland pretends it had nothing to do with it.
Scottish imperialism wasn’t working, so they came cap in hand to the English and merged to be part of one country. Scotland benefited greatly and partook in the horrors of the British empire, which saw countless exploited and killed for demanding their independence and autonomy. The lands looted and plundered for the wealth of the British (which includes Scotland).
However the Scottish like to pretend like they weren’t complicit. My point is there’s great dishonesty and the English get blamed for the entirety of the empire to get themselves off the hook. English and Scotland were partners.
They big up all the Braveheart shit then conveniently leave out the rest!
htimchis@reddit
There were a lot of Scots (and to a lesser extent Irish) in Jamaica - mainly used as the overseers and slave masters on the plantations.
To this day there's a lot of Scottish names To this
Curious-Scholar4692@reddit
Huge in the furs and traps trade in Canada too
Queen_of_London@reddit
Yup, I've seen Scots outright deny that Scotland had any part to play in imperialism. They were very much part of it from the top (the Royal Family and many ministers were as Scottish as they were English) to the bottom.
Curious-Scholar4692@reddit
Doesn’t fit with the whole “we’re the Celtic underdog fighting for our independence from the evil English who have kept us oppressed” 🤪
HeartyBeast@reddit
We’ve certainly got baggage - but not the baggage the US has.
Katharinemaddison@reddit
True, but there is such a degree of / probability a bad term to use - whitewashing the role of the British establishment in slavery. ‘Oh we never had it on the mainland. And we have loads of money to the naughty Sir Bertrams in the end to stop them.’
(Also made the Sir Bertums Baronets for services to the country, ie slave plantations).
Entfly@reddit
Every fucking culture in history has had slavery, the UK was one of the major reasons why slavery stopped.
Get the fuck off of your whipping post
Fit_Adhesiveness7307@reddit
Off of?
Are you American?
BoysenberryTiny8138@reddit
Off and of are two seperate words, fuck off - implies that you fuck off, he wants you to fuck off (of) or / out of this subreddit
tree__of__oak@reddit
Off of is considered American?
"off of your" compared to "off your" is just the formal and grammatically correct way of saying that...
BoysenberryTiny8138@reddit
Black Americans just have no idea where they come from, this is massive in regards to culture - look at all our different cultures in the UK, Indians have their seperate cultures, no issues, Eastern Europeans have their different cultures, not many issues, balkans have tonnes of issues but they usually sort it out themselves, Islamic states have massive issues even between their own selves but that’s more on religion than culture…black Americans though, clueless, lost and that’s why a lot of them crab in the barrel mentality, don’t know their roots cause they were all slaves
aimstylez@reddit
It was taught in history when I was in school about the slave trade and it was a dark past that we tried to fix by ending slavery using the Royal Navy. The country had to take out a loan to pay off slave owners to stop using slaves.
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
How much money was given to the slaves?
Katharinemaddison@reddit
They weren’t exactly rouge outsiders. (Apart from the Jacobites). They were British citizens, many of them connected to one or the other of the Houses of Parliament they were the economic lifeblood of the country - that’s why it took taking out loans rather than using the Navy.
All I’m saying is the fact that the British slave plantations were at a geographical distance from the U.K. - and some enslaved people had at least the option of going to court to assert that their being in the U.K. meant they weee free - doesn’t mean the Caribbean slave plantations were a distinct matter from the U.K.
Due_Tailor1412@reddit
There was a BBC documentary about Trafalgar a few years ago, that showed the "Unwhitewashed" version of the British navy. All the usual racists were up in arms "Oh they are putting token Blacks into history now, it's political correctness gone mad !!"
Of course the truth is that a significant number of sailors in the Navy were black in the Napoleonic wars .. If people ran away from a plantation in the West Indies while there was a Navy ship in port they could sign on as sailors .. which was arguable changing one form of bondage for another .. but after 7 years they were free ..
colin_staples@reddit
As an aside, about 20% of the pilots in the RAF in the Battle of Britain were non-British, with highest number of those being Polish
If you made a film today depositing that there would be similar outcry
Due_Tailor1412@reddit
Actually in the 1969 film "Battle of Britain" the poles were shown, but in a light of "these guys are basically children and all the heavy lifting was done by Etonians" Which is of course nonsense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Franti%C5%A1ek
Katharinemaddison@reddit
Oh you’ve reminded me of Chevalier, about Joseph Bologne, Chevalier de Saint-Georges. Why can’t they make films about real black people? other kinds of people fumed. Because it clearly makes no difference is the reply.
Due_Tailor1412@reddit
Because TV/Film is run my by white people in their 50's (I say this as a white man in his 50's who works in TV but certainly is not running anything) and all the depictions of black people are put through a white filter first .. It's white people talking about black history .. I don't what the solution is to this.
Katharinemaddison@reddit
I get what you’re saying bug I’m talking about a film about a this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevalier_de_Saint-Georges
And a lot of people thought they’d colour blind cast for a white musician.
kimbastern@reddit
There is a show about this guy. It’s on NowTV or Disney. Can’t remember.
Katharinemaddison@reddit
Separate to the film? I’ll have a look!
DotComprehensive4902@reddit
I think it's also a case film producers won't make anything unless it's guaranteed to turn a profit
gaylondonlad007@reddit
We do have baggage but not the kind USA has. Two black men were found hanged on a college campus and they called it suicide. That was when the alarm bells rang for me.
prettyprincess91@reddit
Let’s not forget all the people imported around colonies as cheap labor - why you think so many Guyanese or Mauritians have Indian heritage? Free labor doesn’t mean it was fair labor.
Due_Tailor1412@reddit
I can't read this without hearing Lenny Henry say "Enoch Powell says black people should be given £1000 to go home .. I think it's a great idea .. I only live in Dudley .."
L00ny-T00n@reddit
Or Darren Harriett when he tells black people in the US he's from the UK and lives in a part called the Black Country and they think UK is all so racially fucked up
PureDeidBrilliant@reddit
There was an American (idiot) on instagram a wee while back demanding that we "rename" the Black Country. I wasn't sure if it was being serious or, well, just American.
SubstantialLion1984@reddit
And Blackpool! How racist is that!
ylogssoylent@reddit
Like those tiktoks of people finding out and consequently being outraged about the existence of the country Montenegro (because of the second half of the country name). I could not tell if some of the people were being satirical or genuinely that thick
Katharinemaddison@reddit
😂😂😂😂
opinionated7onion@reddit
The uk also bought all the slaves off the colonies to end the slave trade and we only just finished paying it off, OBVIOUSLY THAT DOESNT JUSTIFY IT.
And we did also have slaves in the UK the slave trade was awful and unfortunately the US gave them up last and then had segregation and they still haven't overcome that.
kimbastern@reddit
The UK compensation slave owners with tax payers money, about 20mil at the time. The slaves worked a further 6+ years to buy their own freedom. This was a so called apprenticeship scheme. It was the continuation of slavery in another name.
The UK made an economic decision for the country and nothing to do with the wellbeing of any enslaved person. The run away slave we’re buying down the place and it because unsustainable to continue the system as it was.
The UK would go on to profit from paying those former enslaved people very little on those same plantation during this apprenticeship scheme period.
Descendants of enslaved people’s from the Caribbean were also paying those slave owner up until 2015.
Can you imagine the indignity of that?!
To this day the British Crown still holds substantial amounts of the Caribbean.
British education likes to say they freed the slave. It’s important to seek the facts of history outside of state sponsored education.
Entfly@reddit
Mate you're spouting utter gibberish, most likely from professional race baiters and treating it like fact.
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
Is race baiting the new term for telling the truth?
kimbastern@reddit
I’m not your mate. I’m not sure whats wrong with suggesting that people do their own research.
You do not have to take anything I’ve said as fact, do your own research.
Entfly@reddit
🤣 You said the line
Kirstemis@reddit
It's not that straightforward. Yes, of course economics played a big part in it because the rich men in charge want to stay that way. But there was significant opposition to slavery on moral and ethical grounds, often based in religion, and there were workers in UK mills who refused to work on cotton imported from slave plantations.
kimbastern@reddit
I never said it was that straightforward.
We are all living through times that clearly illustrates that nothing is that simple, but I think it disgusting and disingenuous for people to still be making out that slavery ended due to the moral burden of the British Institution. If that were the case colonialism wouldn’t be having a very open revival right now.
Colonialist would have left the colonies by now, Yet no matter how African, Asians or Middle Eastern nations say it, the West is still there ensuring the deaths of millions.
It’s also minimises the efforts of enslaved peoples to free themselves from bondage, whether through direct action, legal frameworks etc.
At the end of the day, a people who enable such a gross human injustice, wanting to be celebrated for its end is in quite a contradiction.
I recognise the abolitionists in Britain who were also fighting for Britain to do the right thing. I recognise the everyday Britain, who even through their own hardships stood up for those they never even met.
I do not celebrate the institutions of Britain for making an economic decision that continued such a system for years after it was supposedly ended and embedded in the world a hierarchy of humanity that will never die.
Katharinemaddison@reddit
The U.K. bought them from U.K. citizens so as not to too disrupt the U.K. economy by giving up this major source of revenue.
I agree but the point is the difference in baggage is that the U.K. kept the slave plantations offshore. There’s still baggage. The whole relationship with commonwealth Caribbean counties is about that baggage.
opinionated7onion@reddit
Well yeah uk citizens owned slaves abroad, they wouldn't just give them up so the government bought them.
Katharinemaddison@reddit
The government was at points very involved with it. The parliamentary party around the civil war was especially concerned. These weren’t rouge citizens being horrid abroad. This was institutional.
ManOfTheBroth@reddit
Lmao, you say this like "the government" is a thing that everyone alive now is accountable for, it's all just people, and a group people decided actually, no, slavery is fucked up, and ended it. You just want to bash a group of people for something nobody alive today is even close to being close to, it's moronic.
Katharinemaddison@reddit
No I’m saying the involvement of the U.K. government and the involvement of the US in slavery are roughly equal which is why both counties have baggage.
I mean I even specified the parliamentary party around the civil war as a particular example. That was a bit ago…
Lard_Baron@reddit
Yeah but they did it. They spent the whole of the countries GDP to buy back all slaves.
That’s definitely a good thing.
deevo82@reddit
You mean England and then the UK. Scotland had no slave ships till post union and were not legally allowed to trade with English colonies before the union so could not profit from plantations legitimately.
majaohalo@reddit
I understand your point, but I am of Vincentian heritage so have a different perspective. I have a Scottish surname because Scots were the majority landowners and overseers in Bequia, where my Grandfather was from.
I don’t think before/after union made much difference to their experience of being enslaved by Scottish people, going to Church of Scotland churches, having Scottish names etc. … it’s actually a defining feature of Bequian identity, being mixed African & distinctly Scottish
Ambry@reddit
One of my friends from Canada has a Scottish surname for similar reasons - you'd think it was because there's a lot of Scots in Canada and she looks 'white'. It's actually because her dad's side of the family is mixed race Chinese and black Trinidadian, and Scottish people used to own tracts of land where there was slavery and then indentured labour!
Flimflamsam@reddit
Don’t often see Vincy mentioned on Reddit, cool!
I dated a Vincentian over here in Canada, she’s from “Chateau” (Chateaubelair).
majaohalo@reddit
Haha people often don’t even know SVG is a place!
JoannaCuppa@reddit
Aside from the ones in Ulster?
deevo82@reddit
Aside from what ones in Ulster?
Katharinemaddison@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plantation_of_Ulster
deevo82@reddit
And does your irrelevant link state that any slave ships left Scotland for the Americas pre-union?
Or do you agree that it was an English/British phenomenon?
Katharinemaddison@reddit
The Scot’s caught up fast though https://www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk/article/section/history-of-slavery/scotland-and-slavery/
deevo82@reddit
You mean the Brits caught up fast. We legally weren't Scottish from 1707 onwards.
And the Scottish Court of Session outlawed slavery in 1778 as part of a large abolishment movement in Scotland.
Nice try, though.
EldritchCleavage@reddit
After Lord Mansfield’s famous judgment in London in 1777 declaring slavery unenforceable in England.
Katharinemaddison@reddit
The article mentions both the disproportionate level of Scottish involvement in slave ownership and abolition.
deevo82@reddit
The article does cite any occurrence pre 1707, hence it is British involvement.
Katharinemaddison@reddit
You think after tha act of Union all Scottish identity ceased? Despite the desperate peerage and legal system?
deevo82@reddit
The Scottish Parliament adjourned on the 25th March 1707. All legislative decisions made from that point onwards were British decisions until devolution in 1999. Britain and British people, and the English before them, were the driving force of the transatlantic slave trade from this part of the world.
Katharinemaddison@reddit
Inhabitants of Scotland were statistically over represented in the slave plantations, much due to fleeing Jacobites.
Major Scottish landowners and financiers remained Scottish even after the Union. The Scottish identity existed between the act of union and devolution. You’ll admit the legal system always remained separate surely?
deevo82@reddit
The Jacobites were forcibly transported to the Americas in irons by the British, many not surviving the journey, where they were purchased by landowners.
Nobody remained Scottish after the union. We became British - very much against the will of the majority of the population.
Katharinemaddison@reddit
No I’m talking about Jacobite supporters who went over to the Caribbean. This is well documented.
deevo82@reddit
Not the Jacobites who were forcibly transported to the Caribbean as it doesn't fit your narrative?
You mean the other ones - post 1707 - the British ones?
You see the theme running through this? Slavery and colonialism were British institutions. Stop trying to gaslight.
Katharinemaddison@reddit
I know you think you’ve got something with ‘gaslight’. I know you actually don’t. You’re silly and trivial.
Katharinemaddison@reddit
The majority of the population by the way were not asked if they supported the union, or if they supported the Stuart line. The clan system was feudal and both sides fighting in Scotland depended on the respective lard.
The higher classes had the option of fleeing to the colonies and running slave plantations. And many did.
deevo82@reddit
Are you now mansplaining (extremely woefully) my own country's history to me?
Katharinemaddison@reddit
No.
JoannaCuppa@reddit
That other poster is one of those who if anything good happened in Scotland it was due to the Scottish, and anything bad was due to the English. The victimhood is strong!
JoannaCuppa@reddit
Plantations.
deevo82@reddit
Pretty sure there were no Caribbean plantations in Ireland.
JoannaCuppa@reddit
No shit! There were just ones which the Irish were forced to work on by Scottish people who moved to Ulster to manage the Plantations.
deevo82@reddit
They were paid to work on the farms. They weren't plantations in the sense of the Americas with sprawling estates and chattel slavery.
Thr plantation aspect came from the "transplantation" of people from.mainland GB to Ireland to manage the land that was seized by the Crown.
Unlike when the Irish invaded the North East of Scotland and kept Scottish slaves.
Plus_Band_3283@reddit
We had slaves in the U.K. into the 1800s.
Entfly@reddit
Not in the UK we didn't.
Plus_Band_3283@reddit
Yes we did. It was looked down on by many in the U.K, but there were houses with black slaves. Houses with slave quarters like sheds.
We had a whole slavery abolition movement here which was mostly started and run by quakers.
We also had the famous case of Stewart v Somerset which was overseen by the uncle of Elizabeth Dido Belle. Unlike the movie it wasn’t about slave ships.
James Somerset was an escaped slave kept by the Stewart family as a part of a group of slaves they owned. James ran away and lived free for several years helped by abolitionists to evade recapture and work. Finally, however he was recaptured and his abolitionist friends took his case to court.
It was argued that James, like any other person in the U.K. had the right of habeus corpus, the right not to be locked up unless he was accused or convicted of a crime. The judge Lord Mansfield ruled he did have the right of habeus corpus and because slavery had never been written into British law either for or against, James should be set free immediately. A lot of slaves were set free at this point, though the army had to intervene in stopping slave owners sending their slaves to the Americas so they could keep them. But slaves were still kept in Britain into the 19th century as we can see from abolitionist literature and newspaper ads released well into the first decade of the 1800s.
It wasn’t until the English navy started actively blocking and boarding ships from Africa in 1808 to stop slavery that all U.K. slaves were set free and that was more about people not wanting to associate with slave holders than the law.
There are a plethora of paintings from English aristocratic houses which show them with their slaves.
England, the U.K., Great Britain all had slaves. It wasn’t widespread, it was fashionable and then distasteful and then illegal. Thankfully it was never enshrined in law the way America did.
We can be proud of its abolition and recognise that for a couple of hundred years we bought and bred slaves.
Thankfully, we had the Quakers who were against it from the beginning and never stopped until it was illegal. They were the British GOAT in this situation and recruited a lot of people to the cause. Without them, we may have gone the same way as the US and we were instrumental in destroying the trans Atlantic slave trade so without us, who knows what the world would look like now.
redandbluebadness@reddit
Not legally, but that's not the same as saying they didn't exist
Katharinemaddison@reddit
Yup. There were court cases on the matter.
Chemical_Ad_1618@reddit
But did lead the charge in abolition isn’t that why America went to war?
Entfly@reddit
What no, 🤣
Not in the slightest.
Yes, the UK did lead the way in abolition but it had absolutely nothing to do with the American war of independence.
International-Wear57@reddit
There’s definetly an awful baggage of racism in the UK. Majority of you just pretend it doesn’t happen and the UK is a fairyland for POC.
spoo4brains@reddit
I don't pretend there isn't racism here but in general it isn't remotely as ingrained as it is where I went in the deep south.
International-Wear57@reddit
How would you know what racism is like in the UK? You’re white, so it’s not as if it’s something you’d face.
sshiverandshake@reddit
I do, and if you're trying to argue that it's even remotely similar you need to be put in an institution.
International-Wear57@reddit
At the end of the day, racism is racism. Blacks in the UK still face a lot of institutional and systemic racism, like blacks in the US do. At least Americans actually acknowledge and speak about their racism.
In the EU and UK, people still pretend that it doesn’t matter. People also pretend that the EU is an angel compared to the US when it comes to racism, but it couldn’t be further from the truth.
YouDontLookDead@reddit
I'm sorry you're getting downvoted to shit. Lack of overt racism doesn't negate that racism is still very much a problem and that historic racism still affects present day, no matter how integrated and metropolitan .
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
The downvoting just reflects how racism in this country is completely downplayed and outright denied. Sick of it, nothing will change if there’s no honesty & this continual Americanisation of racism is so frustrating
spoo4brains@reddit
Most of my friends are POC in London, none of them mention experiencing racism, and I have asked them about it in the past.
NotMyFirstChoice675@reddit
As somebody who’s been to America, trust me over there it’s so overt. The atmosphere and tension is crazy.
atzucach@reddit (OP)
In what parts did you see this?
atzucach@reddit (OP)
Why are people downvoting me for asking a question about geography as it relates to the issue at hand lol
NotMyFirstChoice675@reddit
New Jersey was mental for it
Weak_Worth_2735@reddit
Absolutely nothing like USA and tbh many countries in Europe. Visited Poland once with an ex Asian girlfriend and she got stares that you would never get here in the UK. I would say we are the most tolerant country along with Scandinavia.
Puzzleheaded_Win_134@reddit
What did she transition to instead of being Asian?
foxaru@reddit
girlfriend, clearly
NotMyFirstChoice675@reddit
Ex Asian lol
Puzzleheaded_Win_134@reddit
lol
Ambry@reddit
Another really interesting thing about US v UK - these sort of hick racist rural towns aren't really a thing in the UK. Due to slavery/plantations, there's a lot of rural US places with a high black community and inbuilt racism stemming from segregation and even active slavery. However in the UK, black communities tend to be a lot more urban - you don't get a lot of rural areas with a high proportion of black people at all.
Dr-Moth@reddit
I was driving solo in Atlanta for work 15 years ago. I was warned not to go to certain petrol stations or drive in black neighbourhoods. I still can't comprehend how that is a thing.
AndroidwithAnxiety@reddit
America still has sundown towns too, which is equally/more insane to me
TheNinjaPixie@reddit
in ww2 the US army tried to enforce their segregation on black troops in the UK. The UK population absolutely rejected this.
Anaptyso@reddit
I like the (possibly apocryphal) story that some American soldiers insisted that their local pub enforce segregation, so the pub owner responded by putting up a sign saying they'd only open for black soldiers.
htimchis@reddit
It was actually quite a common occurence the black GIs were generally popular with the locals - they were polite, seen as a bit 'exotic' and American 'swing' and 'big band' music had caught on here in the 30s with the advent of home radios, so black Amercan music had preceeded them... but the particular incident you're thinking of (as it was notably the most serious - other incidents were mainly just verbal exchanges or scuffles) is probably the 'Battle of Bamber Bridge'
Apart from the British fondness for sticking up for the underdog, white American officers trying to tell us what to do in our own pubs went about as well for them as you would expect...
Entfly@reddit
Definitely not apocryphal, it was in newspapers and everything
Curious-Scholar4692@reddit
Villagers got maaaaad lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bamber_Bridge
opinionated7onion@reddit
We speak the same language but apart from that were world apart
E420CDI@reddit
🇬🇧 English (Traditional)
🇺🇸 English (Simplified)
LRWR@reddit
Sorry, etymologist here. That's a bit backwards. Most American terms that we love to take the mick out of are simply older English that didn't change (soccer, aluminum, etc.).
HappyBergkamper@reddit
Soccer isn't a lost word in English, it was simply a word that in the UK was confined to the upper classes, like the equally posh 'rugger' for rugby
Football is the term every anglophone country uses for its own version of the game and in the UK that's association football, which since turning professional back when Victoria was on the throne has been a working class sport.
Outside of the UK where the major football is Gaelic, American or the various types of rugby they use soccer because it's way less of a mouthful than saying 'Association'.
atzucach@reddit (OP)
Professional etymologist?
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
Just the windrush generation? No one else? Mind telling me why I was called the N word at 9 and an African anchor baby just last week? Black people experience racism in this country, on an interpersonal level & systemically. It’s part of British racism to deny its existence
AndreasDasos@reddit
Wot. That’s not true at all. Not in terms of films, music, books, laws, traditional churches, even basic food - we highlight the differences but compared to other countries it’s very clear we have a lot in common. Language is the transmitter of culture.
Aggressive_Chuck@reddit
Our Protestantism is very different to their. Vicar cycling round for a cup of tea versus celebrity preachers in mega churches. Films, music etc. is just consumption. People around the world listen to pop music it doesn't mean we have anything in common.
Entfly@reddit
Absolutely definitely not. Not even close.
UnderstandingTop1579@reddit
We have very little in common with Americans, our culture and humour as vastly different.
AudioLlama@reddit
Two people divided by a common language
firstname036@reddit
kinda funny how this question was for black Brits yet most people responding are white
iamtherarariot@reddit
I was thinking the same thing! Feels a bit performative, especially those implying that racism is somehow “lesser” in the UK because it’s maybe less overt
AdorableIncome4488@reddit
I would have to agree. All the comments chanting "i'm white" and explaining how it doesn't happen here... yes it does. It's more covert here which is worse in my opinion. The black people who it affects whether great or small know it and are plenty aware of it
Bent_Silvr_Spoon0130@reddit
I'm so fucking tired of white people trying to tell people of colour that racism isn't that bad "anymore". They will never live it (you can't oppress the oppressor). Unless they're reading or listening to stories then they will never know the struggles we still face. Like why gaslight when you can just hear us out? Unless ur racist urself? Smh
No-Software-544@reddit
No? Try be White and apply to a job with a Spanish/foreigner name haha good luck
JobbyLuvr@reddit
I am mixed race, racism is still a massive problem here. My mother has been racially abused multiple times just for being a black woman. White people have never experienced systemic racism so how can they speak on it
No-Software-544@reddit
It is way lesser in Europe. The fact most European people do not care about race IS good
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
Omg bro please wake up! The Americanisation of racism is literally racist! It’s downplaying our lived experiences as black and brown people & is straight up gaslighting. That’s why when we discuss the racism we experience, we’re completely shut down under the guise of “I don’t see race” or “it’s not race, it’s class”. It’s delusional & we’re not falling for it. The way to combat racism is not blindly acting like there isn’t a racial hierarchy on this planet. Step 1 is appreciating all the different races & respecting cultural differences tf
ririyeahhh@reddit
Exactly lmao. They always want to silence us. Racism is just as bad here in the UK.
Inevitable_Driver291@reddit
The can't miss a chance to have a go at the yanks, but they should pipe the fuck down because I'm interested in the actual question, and not the generalised slander which I see on every other thread anyway.
CollectionStraight2@reddit
Yeah it's turned into a pointless pissing contest with Americans as usual instead of hearing what actual Black Britons think
Thumbstrokes@reddit
I really hope it is because most of us are smart enough not to let them triangulate us against Black Americans. Black American and Black Brits butt heads enough as it is.
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
Like I’m not about to insult any black Americans or laugh about them. I view them as cousins. There’s a lot of misunderstanding on both sides but we’re all black at the end of the day
Aggressive_Chuck@reddit
This is a Reddit thing in general. "Not X, but..."
Flat-State-6710@reddit
So typical for Reddit. I knew this would be happening before even opening the comments lol.
Intrepid-Metal-2970@reddit
This happens so often on here it’s very annoying
putyrhandsup@reddit
not insignificant number of americans too
mongrldub@reddit
Buddy As a white man in the uk who sometimes dates black women I ASSURE you that shit happens here too
BeKind321@reddit
I am white and dated a mixed race girl in London. We got stick, mainly from black men. I am not really sure why but this was back in the late nineties so hopefully the times have changed.
Whole_Intention_7949@reddit
The Bizarre thing being black man-white woman is insanely common in London, so what are they whining about exactly?
mongrldub@reddit
Nah still a thing. Saw a mixed couple get accosted on Walworth Road about a month ago.
Clark-Kent@reddit
Same here mate, noticed how certain extended family acted for occasions when I was dating a black girl
ab3lla@reddit
yes it does of course but it’s less systematic here
procgen@reddit
Not true
ForeverJay@reddit
can’t wait to hear what comments i could get as a black Brit going to the US with a white bf
heyitsBriBri@reddit
As a brown dude with a white gf holidaying in Florida several years ago...no comments which was lovely. However lots of staring which was unsettling. Having a 2YO in tow probably messed their heads up beyond words
Whole_Intention_7949@reddit
In Florida of all places ? The place that has the most Spanish concerts outside of Latin America and Spain?
Chemical_Ad_1618@reddit
There are so many bi racial people in America tho- why are they like this?
MrReadilyUnready@reddit
It's different for black people than brown. Lots of black Americans have a very strong belief that they should only date other black people, and will look down on those who date non-black people and especially white people. There's not much of a similar societal expectation that a brown person must date another brown person, that only really comes from family.
Tarnished13@reddit
Wait are you going to the US?
ForeverJay@reddit
planning to go to New Orleans later this year, but not sure if it’s a good move
Wooden_Skin_8544@reddit
Not whilst Tangerine Palpatine is in charge. Please reconsider as it’s possible America is going to face wave upon wave of terror attacks now.
No-Programmer-3833@reddit
I'd save it for another time. Why give them your money, apart from anything else?
atzucach@reddit (OP)
Not looking like a good move to go to the US no matter your race or that of your companions
drivelhead@reddit
Yeah, I'd give it a few years before going to the US.
FrostySquirrel820@reddit
”I’d give it a few yesrs“ makes it sound like someone has had a particuarly bad time in the toilet. Whuch, I guess, sums up the current US presidency pretty well !
drivelhead@reddit
Sorry, it's this orange lump that won't flush!
E420CDI@reddit
Username doesn't check out
atzucach@reddit (OP)
Between a few years and several generations depending on how things go...
thingsliveundermybed@reddit
You know where it's nice? Canada!
thegmoc@reddit
Nobody's gonna care. The US is a lot more diverse overall than the UK
Apprehensive_Egg99@reddit
No, it really isn't.
thegmoc@reddit
Really?
The UK population is 81% white.
The American population is 59% white.
Please explain how the US isn't more diverse.
Jabberwhorl@reddit
Not how diversity works. What’s the ethnic make-up of the non-white percentage?
thegmoc@reddit
Additionally, there are many places in the US, both cities and states that are minority -majority, where the demographics of the locality are predominantly non white.
Jabberwhorl@reddit
Leicester is like this too it’s not something unique to the US.
thegmoc@reddit
When did I say it was unique to the US? There are way more places in the US like this, both cities and states. There are also quite a few places where the non white percentage of the population exceeds 70%.
thegmoc@reddit
So how do these breakdowns fit into your understanding of diversity?
thegmoc@reddit
For the US: Hispanic/Latino (Any Race): Approximately 19-20% of the total US population. This group is the largest minority, including individuals of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, and Central/South American origin.
Black or African American: Approximately 12-13% of the total population.
Asian or Pacific Islander: Roughly 5-6% of the population. This is the fastest-growing group, comprising individuals with origins in East Asia, Southeast Asia, and the Indian subcontinent.
Multiracial and Other: Approximately 10% of the population identifies as two or more races, a number that has grown significantly.
American Indian and Alaska Native: Approximately 1-3% of the population, including those who identify as "in-combination" with other races.
For the UK:Asian/Asian British (9.3% total): The largest minority group, led by Indian (3.1%), Pakistani (2.5%), Bangladeshi (0.97%), and Chinese (0.75%) ethnic groups. Black/Black British (4.0% total): Comprised of Black African (approx. 2.5%–2.8% in working-age data), Black Caribbean (0.94%), and other black backgrounds. Mixed/Multiple Ethnic Groups (2.9% total): Includes combinations such as White and Asian (0.73%), White and Black African, or White and Black Caribbean. Other Ethnic Group (2.1% total): Including Arab (0.6%) and other unspecified backgrounds.
Odd_Championship7286@reddit
That’s a very broad statement to make. Some areas are more diverse and no one would care. Some areas are basically still sundown towns and people would very much care.
thegmoc@reddit
And how many Brits visit America and go to sundown towns? Do you think it's more likely they'll end up in one of the metropolises or a sundown town in the middle of nowhere?
Odd_Championship7286@reddit
Lot of Brits travel to America to do roadtrips and could easily end up in the middle of nowhere (especially when doing national park/outdoorsy roadtrips). Sure some will go to New York or Orlando but certainly not all.
thegmoc@reddit
Guess I'm wrong then huh?
pajamakitten@reddit
Yes.
notrealisticatall@reddit
You’re proving the stereotype very well about the Americans lacking global and cultural awareness.
thegmoc@reddit
How does the comment you responded to prove that?
notrealisticatall@reddit
Because you make broad untruthful statements. That come across as quite arrogant. You don’t understand the difference between racial diversity and cultural diversity. And respond back to people with silly counter arguements to back your false statements. Basically fulfilling the stereotype very well.
thegmoc@reddit
You know what? You're right 👍🏾
Chemical_Ad_1618@reddit
I learnt what sundown towns meant a couple of weeks ago on an AITA post. Thankfully I don’t think we have them in the UK and hadn’t heard of them before.
Wafflelisk@reddit
All of America, famously not homophobic and accepting of black-white interracial couples
whenyoutalk@reddit
trust me, ppl in the U.S. care if you’re black dating a white person😭 a lot of black ppl have a mentality of you being a traitor or something
thegmoc@reddit
If you say so
whenyoutalk@reddit
the world according to thegmoc
peachesnplumsmf@reddit
Honestly mate that doesn't prevent racism. Diversity isn't actually a relevant defense or way to explain the racism of somewhere.
The US racial dynamics are informed by a long history of segregation and slavery and oppression and fear of reprisals and not the amount of people. A country being diverse doesn't mean shit when the respective groups are so insular and racist and distrusting of each other? UK isn't perfect we have our own racism but it generally presents differently as we're a different country with our own racism. Coming into a thread about racist comments from the US directed to the UK and saying but we're more diverse doesn't actually mean or address anything.
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
A white British woman posted her lovely mixed race children on TikTok. Comments are filled with racist comments that must now be a single mother and she’s ruined her bloodline. This happens every time a white British woman posts mixed race children. It’s all the same racist shit
fussyfella@reddit
You will find out quickly that the US is not homogeneous in its attitudes. In NYC you will likely find no-one will bat an eyelid, go into some smaller towns (and that sadly does include even places like upstate New York, not just the stereotypical south) and it is a different story.
Extra_Shirt5843@reddit
Depends on where you are...big cities, etc; nobody would think about it. But yes, there are smaller areas where yes, you'd get ridiculousness.
MarkDeeks@reddit
Genuinely, good luck to you both. Try to forgive the locals, they know not of what they speak.
MaChao20@reddit
Depends on where you’re visiting in the US.
I’m from California and I see couples from differing races here, anecdotally.
Doctordelayus@reddit
Oh boy, you probably gonna hear some real hateful and possibly racist stuff for that
Ecstatic-Ad-4861@reddit
(I am white British) I used to live in LA 10+ years ago whilst I was at university. I dated a couple of different black men when living out there along with various other ethnicities during my time there. I was in my early twenties living my best life dating and having fun.
There were a LOT of comments, mainly from black American women (similar age to me) such as ‘who do you think you are taking OUR men’, blatantly coming up to us and saying things to him like why would he go ‘slumming it’ with a white girl etc but also from older white people. Once we were having dinner in a restaurant and when he went to the toilet an older white woman came up to me and asked if i was okay…was ‘that coloured fella’ someone i knew?! It was like she thought i was kidnapped or something! I have honestly never experienced or been witness to anything like this prior and I was absolutely staggered. LA is such a multicultural place and i couldnt believe how racist these comments were (this is just a small selection). I have dated many different ethnicities in the Uk also and never experienced anything close to what i did in the US.
Beautiful_Hawk548@reddit
The big tell is when you hear americans use the term "interracial couple". There's a story that goes around where an american asks someone from europe what they call an interracial couple and they just get blank stares as the person replies "...a couple?"
Neon_Jam@reddit
English bloke, who's pretty much white here. I've been with my wife for 5 years now, and reading this just made me realise that we're an interracial couple. Honestly, I never even thought about it this entire time. She's what's known as pardo in her home country of Brazil. When you love someone, I think it's only natural to see the person and not the ethnicity.
I also dated an Arabic girl about 15 years ago from Detroit, and i didn't think about it then either. I do remember that she'd had black boyfriends before and was very reluctant to tell me, like I'd freak out or something. When she did tell me, she made a point of letting me know that she NEVER had sex with them. I didn't believe it, but I also didn't care if she had or not. She seemed to get annoyed that I didn't care either way and suggested I may be a cuck for not being bothered. She was a bit weird.
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
You’re not serious. Interracial couple is 100% a term used in Europe & they face the same issues that come with blending cultures that Americans do
HappyBergkamper@reddit
The British term is usually multi racial
Lifeacrobat@reddit
First time I heard this term being used outside of history lessons, my thought was "like they're married to an elf?"
Exotic_Air7985@reddit
So did you end up eventually with any or still experiencing?
FrostySquirrel820@reddit
Not trying to excuse them but, I guess, if a young black woman is subject to racism all her life, there’s a good chance its going to make them at leaat a bit racist too. The whole situation is pretty grim.
Cocomacadamia@reddit
Hahahahhahaah 🤣 I’d laugh in her face and probably put her down in one way or another. Like, you never, ever approach my man, you silly silly bint.
EtoshaLeopard@reddit
Similar my mate (white Brit) who lives in the states but is from a British and very multicultural city found this as well. They recalled striking up a conversation with a black guy in a queue and her white (so-called liberal) friends and he and his friends were all equal parts horrified… no one could understand why she was just talking to a random black guy and she couldn’t get why that was even a thing to consider being an issue.
In my travels to the US as a non-white person I’ve always been struck by how genuinely segregated a lot of it seems to be along racial lines.
Midnight7000@reddit
I don't believe you.
Ecstatic-Ad-4861@reddit
Your prerogative, I have nothing to prove to you stranger on the internet!
marquoth_@reddit
I'm white but I've seen Americans tell us not to even say Black because "you should say African American" completely overlooking the fact that Black British people aren't American
TheNathanNS@reddit
Americans have a strange identity problem with that
Cliche but it's the whole "I'm Irish American" and then you hear their DNA is like 4.5% Irish and their last ancestors to actually live in Ireland were from Corcaigh in 1793 or something
BrieflyVerbose@reddit
This is why when American people say "I'm Irish" I will be the guy to tell them they're simply not. They're homeopathically Irish at best.
If your Great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather travelled over to America from Ireland in the 1700s, that's one guy out of 1,024 grandparents from that generation alone. That's ignoring ALL the other people that come afterwards that directly contributed to the lineage of that person. But they chose that one guy to reference.
It makes zero sense.
Dramatic-Ad-4607@reddit
Ive been told by an American i cannot be irish (im half English half Irish never said i was full Irish) because the Irish wouldnt dare bed the english...told them im from Liverpool a very large Irish community city and they then said that is fake information and wished that the Irish would pull an October 7th on us. They are legit very strange and have a very weird fetishization of the Irish. This lady said she was irish because of her great great grandmother.. when i told her were my Irish family is from she said i made up my family XD was a proper baffling conversation
htimchis@reddit
Of all English cities, you'd have thought the Yanks would at least have figured out that Liiverpool has a larve Irish population - I mean: McCartney, Lennon, Starkey, Harrison? Surely they noticed that?
I lnow what you mean though - Ive been told on social media that I'm an 'English oppressor', by Americans that don't have Irish nationality, don't have any relatives in Ireland they know of, and have never been there (nor have their parents, grandparents, great grandparents)... meanwhile, I was raised in London mostly by my Irish grsndmother, I've lived and worked in Ireland, my first wife was Irish, and I'vebeen there many times to visit relatives (Kilkenny & Belfast, though I lived in Sligo when I was there)
And no, of course I don't identify as 'Irish' - Im a British citizen (technically I could apply for an Irish passport, via my grandmother, but I never saw the need), I grew up in England, all my cultural refernce loints etc are English.
But it's weird to have some Yank going all 'Tiocfaidh ar la' on me when theyve got a much more tenuous connection to Ireland than I have. No actual Irish person I ever met was like that with me - it's purely an American 'more Irish than the Irish' thing
Dramatic-Ad-4607@reddit
My family is from Sligo so that part especially made me smile in your comment.
But yeah you would think they would know that about Liverpool but the ones ive come in contact with either didnt know were pleasantly surprised to learn something new or were complete muppets like the one i mentioned.
Got a lot of love for Ireland and the Irish and always will but never once would i claim i am Irish as i was born here in England and grew up around the culture here so i dont feel right claiming i am Irish. Its why its always baffled me that these Americans act this way.
When that American mentioned wanting the Irish to pull a October 7th on us i saw that as pure evil because like you'll be wanting people to take out their own family members then as many families here are Irish.. also found it extra funny that they had "anti war" in their bio yet they are cheering and encouraging a make believe war with the English and Irish from the comfort of their home in America.
Many Irish people i have met over the years when visiting back home have been nothing but welcoming and kind and a laugh. I think it would blow the minds of many Americans to see that because of whatever weird stories they have been told.
htimchis@reddit
Yeah, totally my experience too - beyond a bit of tongue in cheek taking the piss over a few beers with friends, I cant think of a time I've ever encountered an actual Irish person that had any issue with me personally for being English - a few that have issues with 'the English' as a concept - which is fair enough, given the history, but none that ever considered me personally responsible for that
In general, of course, the (admittedly gross) mistreatment of the Irish was mainly the result of the choices & actions of a very small group of wealthy, landowning English (plus their hired thugs, or the military equivalent, of course)... and for the most part that same group of wealthy English landowners also treated the majority of the English population like shit too - not quite to the same extent as the Irish, we weren't dying of famine in mainland Britain - but those of us that were poor (the majority) were getting deported to Australia or thrown in jail for 5 years for stealing bread to feed our children, being shovelled into workhouses, being hung for crimes that wouldnt even get you a custodial sentence these days... and even at the best of times, were working 70+ hour weeks in the mines, factories, & fields from the age of 10, for barely enough money for a single room for a whole family with enough left over for a diet of cheap bread & porridge, and not much else... and facing a whipping or a jail cell for complaining, or just 'talking back' to the rich & powerful
The sheer stupidity of that 'Irish American' attitude of trying to prolong 'The Troubles' long after everyone in both Britain and Ireland were happy to put it behind us, is that the vast majority of the victims of those times, and the ones most likely to be killed or maimed by weapons paid for by American donations to NORAID, were Irish people. Sectarian violence was largely targeted at the Irish - with English victims of bombings like in Birmingham, Brighton, Hyde park etc being fairly few in comparison
Americans seem to be largely oblivious to that fact.
darthpaul1978@reddit
"Homeopathically Irish" made me snort. Well played.
Intruder313@reddit
By the rules of homeopathy the less Irish in them the MORE Irish they are!
htimchis@reddit
Weirdly, this appears to be true.
FrostySquirrel820@reddit
I love the phrase “homeopathically Irish” . I might need to repurpose it for use against a simular problem over in /Scotland
BrieflyVerbose@reddit
I'm hoping if I use it enough it will gain traction and annoy some Yanks a little bit 🤣
Frostly4242@reddit
I almost certainly have more Irish blood than that (my ancestors are a proper mongrel mix of English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish) but I would never consider myself Irish (unless it was enough to get a passport!). I am at least 25% Scottish but I don't consider myself Scottish either - it's just my ancestry, not my identity. It's an odd relationship that Americans have with nationality.
MeltingChocolateAhh@reddit
It's because those (not all to be fair) US citizens are obsessed with having a history, but they don't have a history. Their history is mostly either our history, or Spanish history - depending which part of the US they come from. They want to be able to relate to such an extravagant culture that isn't the US culture.
A few weeks ago, someone on another subreddit tried debating with me that there isn't really a British cuisine which is true, but that there is more of an "American cuisine".
They said barbecue, I said that's originally Jamaican. They said cheeseburgers, I said that's just a hamburger (German) with plastic cheese in it, and does not constitute cuisine. I don't even remember what else they said.
Then there are the British people, most of us don't even really know or care much about British history. I found out way too late that there was a full scale war between the English and the Scottish. I can't even really begin to tell anyone the long story behind how the troubles began in Ireland, but that involves the English.
Forsaken_Hat4607@reddit
I mean, the person you were talking to sounds annoying and incorrect in trying to claim some superior American cuisine over British cuisine, but they’re not wrong in listing foods that were originally from other countries as being part of their cuisine in a changed form.
Tomatoes didn’t exist in Italy until they were brought over from the Americas in the 1500s, and they didn’t become an established part of Italian cuisine until the late eighteenth century, but you’d be hard pressed to find someone who didn’t agree they’re part of Italian cuisine. And nowadays, there are foods in the US that are originally Italian but have clearly become new and distinct dishes, like Chicago deep dish pizza. So you’ve had recipes and ingredients passing back and forth across the Atlantic, and indeed throughout the whole world, for centuries.
I grew up in the UK but my mum is American, and she’s always made succotash, which is one of the recipes common in New England where she’s from. It was invented by Native Americans, and it’s been cooked by white Americans as well since the early 1700s. So, as long as Italians have been cooking with tomatoes. I live in Scotland and I’ve encountered plenty of American tourists claiming that their great-great-grandfather makes them somehow Scottish, and it’s definitely grating. But the fact is, there are many foods in the US that are either indigenous to North America or were brought there by immigrants and shaped over the centuries into something distinct and new, and that does very much form a cuisine, and a varied one.
Sometimes these foods are based on existing dishes, yes, but so is most food in the world. There are only so many basic cooking methods and a lot of cultures have their own version of ‘fried dough sachets filled with stuff’ or some noodle/pasta variant and so on. What matters is whether a dish is a distinct variant, such as how American-style barbecue is sweeter in flavour, uses different spices, and is smoked over wood whereas Mexican barbacoa is more savoury and traditionally braised in underground pits, and Jamaican jerk seasoning is more sour and spicy and a distinctly different flavour profile. Then there’s churrasco in Brazil, Korean BBQ, etc. There are a lot of different versions and elaborations on what at the end of the day is a pretty straightforward method of cooking meat. And some foods were just invented in the US, like New England clam chowder or Buffalo wings. The upstate New York town my mum grew up in is tiny, and yet there are a couple foods they eat there which you won’t find anywhere else, even in the rest of the state, because they’re local inventions.
Additionally, while opinions might differ as to whether British cuisine is good, per se, it definitely exists — if you’re interested, for example, Pen Vogler has written two social histories of British food which are really good:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/nov/17/stuffed-by-pen-vogler-review-tasting-history
Or even to look at one specific foodstuff, A Cheesemonger’s History of the British Isles by Ned Palmer is one of my absolute favourite books, and it does what it says on the tin, tracing the history of British cheeses such as Stilton which have the same rich cultural history and pedigree as something lol Camembert. It’s fascinating stuff if you like cheese at all:
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/oct/23/cheesemonger-history-british-isles-ned-palmer-review
Comcernedthrowaway@reddit
Completely unrelated to the topic but what is succotash? Is there anything comparable in taste to it? I know I can google it but it’s not the same as someone who knows what it should taste like.
(I’ve got “sufferin succotash” a la Daffy Duck, being shouted in my head on-repeat now).
Forsaken_Hat4607@reddit
There are a lot of different versions of it, but as far as I know my mother normally makes it with corn, lima beans, cherry tomatoes, and courgette, seasoned with just salt, black pepper, and a lot of fresh basil, and butter (maybe olive oil too, I’m not sure). You can use bell pepper too, and some people add different herbs. It’s very simple, but the important thing is to make it in summer with good quality vegetables — my parents grow a lot of their own, so they use those. Getting good sweetcorn that’s not too starchy is important, which is harder in the UK than the US unfortunately. It’s fairly easy to make, but the key is in making sure that the veg is tender and softened, but not mushy. The vegetables cook in their own juices and it shouldn’t be dry, but it’s more of a sauté than a stew, at least the way I’ve grown up eating it.
I think Southern-style succotash uses bacon or pork fat in some way to create a smokier, meatier flavour? It’s definitely more stew-like.
I’m honestly struggling to find a taste comparison to another dish, because it’s one of those simple dishes that ends up being more than the sum of its parts: the tastes of those summer vegetables mingle together into something that’s primarily sweet and bright like good corn on the cob or bruschetta, but with a savoury starchiness and a hint of smokiness underneath it that’s just started on the way towards something like a rustic ratatouille. It very much tastes like a summer garden.
Another one of my mother’s summer recipes that’s a favourite of mine is slices of aubergine grilled until soft and rich in a balsamic vinegar glaze, served on top of grilled slices of ciabatta with lots of fresh basil. It’s very simple again but that’s perfect for the summer!
No-Championship9542@reddit
I find most people know lots about British history and care a lot about it, thus all the historical sites being rammed full of people.
MeltingChocolateAhh@reddit
That's tourism.
No-Championship9542@reddit
Ok but most people I know have an interest in our history and we'll talk about Nelson or Henry VIII pretty regularly. People definitely have an interest in British history, vast amounts of men are pretty into military history in particular.
Chemical_Ad_1618@reddit
There was the braveheart film….
MeltingChocolateAhh@reddit
Not seen it
Empty-Question-9526@reddit
Barbecue is as old as cooking meat on a fire. It literally is beyond countries! Bbq sauce however yeah that could be Jamaican
Chemical_Ad_1618@reddit
America was built on British culture and the fight to leave the crown fought for their independence and various people moved there (Scottish, Irish, Germans, French, Jews etc) brought their cuisine and it got assimilated into American - Chicago deep pan pizza (Italian) burgers, hot dogs (German) etc. It is a national of immigrants. The American dream is an immigrants dream.
British is kind of the same our national dish is curry (British colonial India influence)
pajamakitten@reddit
Even then, let's say it was their grandad and they qualify for Irish citizenship under that, they would still stick out like a sore thumb in Ireland because they grew up in the US and have no cultural understanding of Ireland. My cousin is half Irish through his mum, however he grew up in the UK and is more culturally similar to my sister and me than he is his Irish cousins.
GaijinFoot@reddit
Any American saying they are 4% Irish have probably had it piped up their bum
E420CDI@reddit
THAT WOULD BE AN ECUMENICAL MATTER!!
thegmoc@reddit
That's because they're acknowledging their ancestry, not saying that they're actually Irish
kaetror@reddit
How many people in America claim to be Irish American? It's about 30 million people. How many of them are 1st/2nd gen immigrants, have living family in Ireland, or have even set foot there?
Far. Far. Far fewer.
I probably have more/recent Irish ancestry than most Irish Americans, but I'm not irish-scottish, that's not how it works.
Now repeat the same question for Scottish-americans, Italian Americans, all the hyphen Americans. How many of them actually have anything to do with their 'homeland'?
They are all just Americans, but that's not enough for them, so they need to add the hyphen to make themselves more interesting.
Brits might do their family tree, see a different nationality and go "oh that's interesting!" and continue on as normal.Americans see a different nationality and claim it as part of their identity; they try to collect ancestries like Pokémon cards.
Anyone who's ever used a genealogy site knows the second your tree intersects with an American's every earlier potential match is now suspect until you can prove it using other sources.
TheNathanNS@reddit
Tbf on this one, there are the Ulster Scots, an ethnic group made up of Scottish settlers in Northern Ireland
thegmoc@reddit
Guess I'm wrong then🤷🏾♂️
smelltogetwell@reddit
Yet they seem to believe they ARE Irish, and not just of Irish descent.
thegmoc@reddit
To you they seem to believe that. But that's not the case.
smelltogetwell@reddit
So the Americans who have told me they're Irish and doubled down when I have suggested that they have Irish ancestry and are not actually Irish don't exist? Good to know.
thegmoc@reddit
And was this online or in real life?
I can pose this same question to you.
The Americans I've grown up around and interact with on a daily basis who mean their ancestry when they say Irish don't exist?
smelltogetwell@reddit
In real life, multiple times/different people.
We have obviously had different interactions with Americans. You say the ones you grew up around - was this in America or the UK? All of the ones I've interacted with were in America and Canada, perhaps it's different when outside of North America?
thegmoc@reddit
In America. I'm American. So yes we have had different interactions with Americans.
smelltogetwell@reddit
Fair enough.
notrealisticatall@reddit
lol literally proved your point 10 fold that they have an insufferable identity crisis.
Electronic_Fun8306@reddit
yeah smelltogetwell; maybe you know more about his fellow countrymen than he does, just like Yanks telling me they're Irish when I'm literally Irish, they've never been here, had one great great great grandfather who was from Cork, and have no idea wtf it means when I call them a fuckin gowl
smelltogetwell@reddit
To be fair, several of these were people who also ask me where I'm from 'actually' from when I say I'm from England, because they can't understand why I'm not white, so there's clearly some sort of disconnect going on.
Electronic_Fun8306@reddit
woah woah thats racist.
dont dare say anything against someone who is literally 1024th Irish! how dare you.
notrealisticatall@reddit
So sorry, the 1.8% irish dna from 23 and me should get them mandatory citizenship to Ireland
Electronic_Fun8306@reddit
they can come to the UK and build HS2 then like grandpops...
BrieflyVerbose@reddit
Holy shit, finally a self aware one!
thegmoc@reddit
Yes
grainne0@reddit
I'm Irish and I've met a fair few who believe this when they were visiting Ireland or when I've met them th UK. It's been a common experience with friends too, we've had people from the US also try and correct on Irish history, pronunciations, politics etc. Maybe it's more common with those who travel abroad then those who do not, as my experience is more aligned with u/smelltogetwell. There are plenty who don't believe it, but sadly many who do.
thegmoc@reddit
Not saying there aren't a few loonies who do. I'm saying that's not the prevailing sentiment and to describe it as such is simply not accurate.
grainne0@reddit
Yeah that's fair, I'd say it's about 30% I've met. Meeting them is probably more memorable too.
thegmoc@reddit
I totally understand that.
I'm just not sure why this is such an important hill for people to die on. They smugly make this assumption then get rabidly defensive when an American explains to them that this isn't the prevailing sentiment.
Probably just an Internet thing. I'm sure most people in the UK and Ireland find absolutely no relevance in this.
BrieflyVerbose@reddit
My best mate's girlfriend is from Anaheim and what I've been told from her contradicts what you say.
thegmoc@reddit
Well I guess I'm wrong then, huh?,
BrieflyVerbose@reddit
Yes. At least partly.
thegmoc@reddit
Since we've established that I'm wrong there's not really anything else to say then, right?
BrieflyVerbose@reddit
I mean... you could apologise for being American? I know it's not your fault, but still...
bluejackmovedagain@reddit
I had a very confusing conversation with an American man last time I was in Dublin, until I realised that when I said "my family are Irish" I meant that I was visiting relatives in the city and when he said it he meant that he thought a random ancestor he'd never met was from Ireland.
Electronic_Fun8306@reddit
and that most US Black folk aren't African......
sshiverandshake@reddit
You're wrong, I don't agree with obsession over heritage but it's part of the culture over there.
White Americans label themselves as: Italian American, Irish American, German American, etc.
Latinas refer to themselves by their original nationality too, i.e.: Cuban Americans, Venezuelan Americans, etc.
Black Americans were overwhelmingly brought over from Africa so they're generally referred to as African Americans UNLESS they're more recent immigrants, i.e.: Nigerian Americans.
Source: I have friends that either grew up in, or recently moved to the US.
pogadog@reddit
Some black americans don't like being referred to as african american because they know nothing of africa. Other races immigrated by choice so kept a lot of their culture with them. Black people were forcibly immigrated for slave labor and the kids were kept seperate from their culture. So they have no tie to africa beyond skin colour and ancestry. There were movements over last century trying to reconnect with african roots and culture but a lot of people also don't identify with it at all because of not growing up with any of it. There is a distinct black american culture that is unique to america. Tbf I have also seen racial dynamics of people thinking of themselves of the good ones while seeing africans as the "poor dirty" ones.
htimchis@reddit
And, to be fair. 'African' is rather meaningless in terms of ethnicity, in much the same way that 'European' could mean Scottish or Greek, despite those being two very different cultures, and not even looking particularly similar...
...except that Africa has far greater genetic diversity than that - greater than the rest of the world put together, in fact - so a Scot has more genes in common with Pakistani than a Nigerian Igbo does with a S. African Xhosa
So the term 'African' covers nearly 60% of the planet's genetic diversity
vcleere114@reddit
Native Americans/First Nation actually did come from elsewhere originally though.
htimchis@reddit
Not really - except in the sense that everyone who isnt from East Africa 'came from somewhere else originally', if you go far enough back.
Indigenous Americans have been in situ long enough that not only their culture and languages, but also their phenotype has adapted to the environment - they're no longer genetically the same as the ancient hunter-gatherer tribes of eastern Siberia and east Asia that crossed over the Bering Strait 10,000 to 20,000 years ago
In much the same way you wouldnt normally say that blonde-haired, blue eyed Nordic Swedes "came from somewhere else originally" - their ancestors did, but those ancestors had neither blonde hair or blue eyes - the Swedes have been there long enough that they've developed into a different ethnicity from the one that first arrived there at the end of the last ice age
janesy24@reddit
I understand this but it’s absolute nonsense because have you ever heard an American say they are English-American? Even though a large percentage of Americans will actually be English-American. They go on about how America is great but all of them want to be from somewhere else.
sshiverandshake@reddit
I know what you mean but to be fair, I've met plenty of Americans that said they'd love to visit Cornwall, Bristol or Newcastle for example, since that's where their ancestors were from.
To varying degrees they all expected to be able to track down and turn up at some old-timey house where their ancestors lived, as though it was one of the one hundred or so original houses in Bristol.
I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm not. I think because English ancestry is so common, they tend to talk about everywhere else first or if they're just English, then the specific place in England.
Level_Engineer@reddit
But they're African American, what mental gymnastics is this?
kaetror@reddit
African Americans are people who are born in an African country and move to become Americans.
Same way an Irish person who emigrated would be an Irish American.
If your lineage has been in the US longer than living memory, you're not X - American, you're just American.
Elon musk is more of an African American than any non-migrant black person in the US.
Black Americans often comment on how non Americans get this far more than their own countrymen. When they travel abroad, they aren't hyphen American, they're just American.
nemmalur@reddit
“African-American” is a term that was created to refer broadly to Americans descended in part from African slaves, to replace other colour-based terms. It is ironically not used much to refer to recent immigrants from Africa.
Aggressive_Chuck@reddit
So it wouldn't refer to Obama or Harris?
nemmalur@reddit
No, of course it could. Like I said, it is mostly assumed that it refers to people whose African ancestry is far less recent.
Jimoiseau@reddit
That's because recent immigrants would use their country of origin rather than continent, e.g. Nigerian American. The specific countries of origin during the slave trade have been erased, so people originating from that use the term African American.
TheHeroYouNeed247@reddit
The one caveat you are overlooking is that many black Americans had no idea where exactly their ancestors are from (befote DNA testing eas common), which is why the term is widely adopted.
I say this as Scot that hates the whole Scottish-American thing.
The_prawn_king@reddit
I think that there’s an argument because of the nature of how many African Americans ended up in the USA that they want to have a recognised link to their heritage which is why people who are obviously 200 years or more removed from Africa are still African Americans if that’s what they choose to refer themselves as.
Obviously the answer is just listen to what each individual would prefer.
Nfjz26@reddit
Yep they call themselves African American yet I’ve seen a depressing amount of hate/xenophobia/colourism from African Americans towards Africans online.
Case in point the ‘Zulu’ parade during the New Orleans parade where black Americans will wear black face and pretend to be Zulu with no Zulu ancestry.
StarrBubb@reddit
Yes! I’ve had this happen to me. My flabber was gasted lol
SpatulaWholesale@reddit
An American TV reporter famously asked Linford Christie how it felt to win gold at the olympics as an African American. "I'm not African American", he replied, "I'm British!"
pajamakitten@reddit
Lewis Hamilton had that too.
Flimflamsam@reddit
I think it was Kris Akabusi, but either way the US reporter couldn’t wrap her head around it. It was wild.
ghostrhubarb@reddit
A few years ago I saw a comment from an American where they referred to black people in the UK as "African American Brits"
Intrepid-Glove1431@reddit
sometimes comments like these make me think reddit is either full of bots or people who have no idea what they're talking about
I've live in the states for years and americans don't even use the term african-american, they just sound black.
honestly your comment just sounds made up
alivingstereo@reddit
Lol, I’ve seen the exact same comment from Black Americans towards Black Brazilians. They simply said Black Brazilians weren’t black because they were… Brazilians??????
anabsentfriend@reddit
Yes I've experienced this as well. An American referred to a Japanese person (who's nationality was Jaoanese) as Asian American.
Electronic_Fun8306@reddit
or the amount of USA folk answer a question in this sub specifically without understanding that its... kind of... a UK centric sub.....
god-forbid we should have electricity in Europe (which is also now a country) despite, inventing everything.
Afinkawan@reddit
A guy I worked with went to America and when someone heard his south London accent commented, "Oh, you're a British African-American!"
fordesc16883@reddit
So I'm not black but my other half is and I can vouch she has received criticism/had arguments with black Americans about race and things to do with race.
She's even had some quite offensive things levelled at her from black people from America/younger gen Z British people. I can't say all of it as I'll be banned but I can safely say if a white person said any of it, they'd be interviewed by the police.
Obvious-Water569@reddit
I'm not black but I have seen several TikTok videos ffrom black Americans claiming British black people aren't black.
Seems like the same old American nonsense to me.
LunaWabohu@reddit
I'm white but I've seen tweets of Black Americans say that non-American Black people aren't Black and always thought that was insane
Special_Earth_4957@reddit
you should hear what they say about white people calling themselves Afrikaans, the black south africans just tell them to fuck off and mind their own business
MagicBez@reddit
The internet is a wild place full of bonkers ideas but there are people out there who will earnestly argue that "black" means "black American" and that people in, for example, Nigeria aren't "black"
It's mad
Chemical_Ad_1618@reddit
It’s almost like black and American aren’t separate words. Also colour.
YogurtHead6557@reddit
Madness, if you ask me, as a black man
gaylondonlad007@reddit
I remember when this erupted.
https://www.irenemonroe.com/black-american-black-british-actors/
ClarifyingMe@reddit
I'm not touching this with a 50 ft pole. I was fine. Bye!
Cocomacadamia@reddit
I got myself an African British boyfriend and he deeply believes that Black Americans are bonkers, for what it’s worth 🤷🏼♀️ Not to say he’s an arse kisser who pretends that racism doesn’t exist or anything, he’s quite high up in his workplace and openly told me that he does look out for other black employees a bit more than others, but he is genuinely baffled by the level of weirdness of black Americans and does his best to ignore them for the most part.
iTz_Kamz@reddit
There's disconnects for sure but I would side eye your boyfriend personally, what country is he from?
Cocomacadamia@reddit
Why on earth would you side eye him? 🤣 he finds Americans cringy and hysterical and hard work to be around. 🤷🏼♀️
iTz_Kamz@reddit
What are his opinions on white brits? Just curious
Cocomacadamia@reddit
Why white Brits specifically? :)
iTz_Kamz@reddit
Why not? I would find it strange that he only has an opinion on black americans considering he probably has lived and interacted with them the least compared to white brits
Sweet-liqourice@reddit
Notice how most of the replies here are from white people and not people who are actually Black British….
iTz_Kamz@reddit
Welcome to reddit lmao, they stay answering questions for black brits
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
All they do is dominate conversations & never let anyone speak. I don’t know a black Brit who hasn’t experienced overt racism in this country but here they are pretending British to be a post-racial oasis. An example of British racism is the complete denial of our lived experiences
FitConfection50@reddit
No, but my friend who is says they act very entitled and as if they are the spokespeople for all black people.
ririyeahhh@reddit
That’s exactly what you’re doing rn tho. Trying to be the spokesperson for Black British people.
MagicBez@reddit
The UK is far less segregated than the US and for all our similarities attitudes to ethnicity are different.
We also have a far higher rates of mixed relationships
FilmObjective5475@reddit
I don't understand this graph. What is the vertical axis, does the horizontal axis represent anything, what does the size of the circle represent? lol
MagicBez@reddit
The vertical axis is labelled. It shows the level of segregation. The circle sizes represent population (notice how London and New York are really big?). There is no horizontal axis as it's comparing areas of two cities.
FilmObjective5475@reddit
Fair enough I missed the vertical bit but I mean there's gotta be a clearer way of presenting that information. If the geography is important why not use a heatmap, if the population is important why not do population vs racial separateness.
taskkill-IM@reddit
I think this country is still racist as fuck, but it's more behind closed doors... If this country was a person it would be the type to say good morning and ask how you are to a POC, then when inside say to their spouse "I was just talking to the [insert slur here] next door"
In America they are more upfront about it, if a POC were to wave and say morning they would just say "get away from me [insert slur here]"
Any_Foundation_661@reddit
So even when British people aren't racist, you know they're still racist?
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
There is a lot of racism in the UK towards black people. Are you denying this fact?
Any_Foundation_661@reddit
No.
But I am saying, if you meet someone and they don't appear to be racist, it's rather silly to assume they're actually racist, just behind closed doors.
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
Ahhhh you are truly delusional about what it means to be black & an immigrant / child of immigrants in a land that’s not your own. No one is trying to score points, we’re trying to have a bit of honesty here. The denial of our lived experiences just sums up what racism is like in this country. You think we’re trying to what, compete with black Americans on who gets it the worst? I have been shocked by the racist language used towards the black youth this past week, and truly disgusted.
I’m going to assume you’re black, because otherwise how can you determine which countries are the more racist towards black people when you don’t have black skin?
Any_Foundation_661@reddit
I'm not black, but I am a child of immigrants.
Anyway, who is doing the racism in your view?
I'm guessing white people.
Who would you think other white people would be honest with about their racism?
I can tell you I regularly heard things I would consider racist from other white people in Italy and from Singaporeans. Regularly.
Less regularly in the US - even though I was in NY, likely the most progressive part of the country, interracial relationships were way more unusual and the cultures were far more segregated than the UK.
SA is its own special case, but it's not far beneath the surface. Vast amounts of racism towards black Zimbabweans from black South Africans, largely for economic reasons.
But of all those places, in the UK I virtually never see/ hear it.
How many countries have you got 'lived experience' of? Where are you comparing the UK to?
Well done ignoring the data too.
tucnakpingwin@reddit
I’m white, I went to New York with my best friend (who is black) and when we went to my hotel (she was staying with a relative), the receptionist was staring at us and looked pretty dumbfounded that I, a white person, was friends with a black person to the extent I brought her to my room. I felt very uncomfortable the entire time we were together, not because of her, but because of the looks Americans were giving us. They are still so segregated despite it officially ending decades ago, which is sad as when my friend and I went out in our home city in England, no one batted an eye.
SwimmingSherbert1734@reddit
This is exactly why the Black Lives Matter movement makes no sense in the UK. Well, it does, because these lives matter of course, but certain younger Brits (I.e. wealthy arty students with white saviour complex) ) seem to think that the UK and USA racial history is mirrored
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
It absolutely does make sense in the UK. There isn’t a black person in this country who hasn’t experienced overt & covert racism. We’re in a majority white country & arrived en masse not that long ago! We had our own civil rights movement, we’ve had our own black people killed by racists. There’s a significant racial disparity gap in health care, policing, education? The movement wasn’t just about police shootings, it was the overarching attitude of white supremacy in the western world.
SwimmingSherbert1734@reddit
I appreciate what you’re saying and I don’t deny it at all. My point, perhaps expressed a bit loosely (I apologise) is that racial tensions in the UK are nothing less than the USA. Racism and segregation is entrenched in the USA system. This is not to deny what you and others have experienced in the UK
LengbM21@reddit
The underlying aim of your post is to try to gather people to attack Black women.
Also, this isn't the correct forum for this. Black people will obviously be a minority here.
Try posting in a black men/people subreddit. I hope you get the responses you're looking for.
Iamtir3dtoday@reddit
Are you from the US? Plenty of black people from the UK will be on an British subreddit... what a bizarre comment.
LengbM21@reddit
What part of 'minority' do you not understand? Also, there are white people commenting here, despite the post specifically mentioning Black British people.
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
You’re getting downvoted for the truth, this is why racism in this country prevails, white Brits have deluded themselves to believe racism towards black people is an American issue, it’s laughable at this point! Apparently we all live in peace & harmony, black youth have been racially abused all week after the Clapham incident!
readitornothereicome@reddit
Happens every time - question aimed at black people on this sub and the answers will be from majority white people. You were spot on with your post BTW.
MisticalMulberry@reddit
Are you black?
Scared-Room-9962@reddit
When one person isn't, that means everyone isn't
Loose_Replacement214@reddit
They're just someone with a massive chip on their shoulder. Shit life syndrome maybe.
Flat-State-6710@reddit
Straight facts. I knew what time it was from the OP.
21decibels@reddit
It may not be the underlying aim of the post but having more than a few comments about what (some) African American women say about interracial relationships (while not mentioning similar reactions from men) is inevitable.
Posting in a subreddit targeted at African American men would produce the same.
helpmaboabjings@reddit
Here, hope this helps https://www.nhs.uk/tests-and-treatments/talking-therapies/
atzucach@reddit (OP)
Is that the underlying aim? Damn, thanks for letting me know.
Or maybe we're being sensitive? Because I made the post out of genuine curiosity. I have no stake here, even if you sententiously declare I do.
Hour-Court7958@reddit
This isn’t something new, and it’s not a sentiment that comes from the states only. You’ll always have people scared by history and preach segregation.
I see many say England never had segregation lol we did it just wasn’t labelled
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
These people don’t know about the colour bar, the civil rights movement, probably don’t know why carnival even exists. It’s soooo frustrating
Opening-Composer7334@reddit
Question to black Brits = “I’m white British but” 🤣🤣
6lackPrincess@reddit
Because black Americans are as dumb as their non black counterparts.
WorthStay3200@reddit
Black American living in the U.K. who grew up in the U.K. and was raised by A British/American family here... all I can say is everyone is different. We can’t box up an entire race of people and claim they all act the same. I find a lot of black British people judge me for being American meanwhile culturally we share similar cultures. Black Americans don’t have an “identity problem” their ancestors were slaves and they have their own cultural identity ... everyone is different and everyone needs to stop stereotyping people all the time in general.
Training_Track9999@reddit
I'm Polish (white). My brother is married to a Black New Yorker and he actually said it. Some Black ladies several times told them "you are taking our men". But later he told me when he started to be closer to the black community those comments disappeared. But he lives there, speaks with American accent etc..
pointlesstips@reddit
So the ladies were even bitchin about a man they'd never be able to get (am making the assumption that your brother's man is gay not bi)? That is interesting...
Training_Track9999@reddit
Exactly. My brother is gay. Not sure in what context was it put into - maybe as a general statement - but yeah..
ShortFlamingo3409@reddit
I was looking to move to New York around 2008 and the more time I spent out there the more shocked I was with just how racist the USA actually is (and New York is meant to be one of the more liberal cities). It wasn't just white and black but all races to some degree. I'm very glad I didn't end up moving.
atzucach@reddit (OP)
Any examples that stick out?
ShortFlamingo3409@reddit
My girlfriend at the time was white and from Boston and a lot of her friends were very openly racist to Mexicans in particular. We'd get behind our back comments if we went into an Asian restaurant. Black people would just generally ignore us completely. I've travelled a fair bit and the USA felt the most alien of all the countries I've been to which is just weird.
atzucach@reddit (OP)
Was it sort of a "joking/not joking" weird false irony thing? I ask because I actually lived in Boston for a while and heard racist comments expressed like that about Black and Latino people.
ShortFlamingo3409@reddit
Sigh. I replied and got a warning so I'm out. Sorry.
atzucach@reddit (OP)
I was still able to see it, no worries. Sounds like miserable people not realising how shocking they were.
I was surprised in Boston because I'd previously lived just outside of Washington, DC, where there really did seem to be a normal level of human interaction regardless of race. I never heard the white people I knew, even with only white people around, say anything even remotely racist. I foolishly assumed this was an "East Coast city" thing. Oops.. different story in Boston :/
ShortFlamingo3409@reddit
Unfortunately not. It was out and out "those ......... Mexicans (or a slur) shouldn't be here". It was a part of why we split to be honest (although the biggest part was finding out her family had Mafia connections).
-usagi-95@reddit
I'm not a Black Brit but Black Portuguese. I get tired sometimes with my interactions with Black Americans.... On tiktok I was arguing with some because they were mad UK has a Black History Month.... 🫥🙄
My reasoning is: they might be Black but they still American. So the way they think is very American aka ignorant and self centred.
appleblossom87@reddit
Oh absolutely. The last time I met an African American I was in Portugal. I was talking to her about Black British history (which she denied existing and denied by ancestry as African), then later I mentioned to her that she should learn more about Black history in Portugal (because she’d expressed wanting to move there). She looked me dead in the eye and said “they have Black history here!?”. I was like girl… do you not see these Black people around…. Bear in mind she’d just finished travelling to Brazil and we’d gone for a “meet-up” dinner to an Angolan restaurant. Living in a vacuum, consuming as a traveller without any actual acknowledgement for what’s going on around them. My tolerance is low for chosen ignorance
pointlesstips@reddit
See this I sorta get. It is a dumb thing to be mad about, because why not celebrate it everywhere, but in the US black history month is really Slave Liberation History Month.
Not saying that there isn't a likelihood that Black Portuguese people might have a slavery background as well, but it is different from the American black history.
-usagi-95@reddit
Black History Month is not only about the colonial history. Actually that is mostly what Black Americans celebrate but in UK is more about the history of Black British and their achievements and contributions across time (Windrush Generation is not the beginning btw).
appleblossom87@reddit
Sometimes I think African Americans struggle to understand race outside of their own conceptualisation and context. It makes it incredibly difficult to relate as they try to map all experiences onto their own and ignore things that don’t connect to their preconceived ideas. The last conversation I had with an African American, she really tried to convince me that my ancestors weren’t also slaves because I’m Jamaican. I’m Black British (Jamaican). I had to give her a history lesson, but she just couldn’t grapple with it. It’s frustrating
OpeningWhereas6912@reddit
I have noticed similar discourse between African Americans and Australian Indigenous folk - to the point of minimising their Aboriginal Blackness and culture. Australia's black history is extremely complicated and painful in its own way, rather than listen, it becomes competitive.
appleblossom87@reddit
Right absolutely. I also detect a lot of competition too. Sometimes I feel that their ideas of blackness are heavily influenced by and steeped in the idea of “America the greatest”. Therefore they and their culture are the greatest. It’s tiring.
Flimflamsam@reddit
When you experience someone having trouble grappling with these concepts, it starts to shed light on the indoctrination/cult-like ways of the US.
It’s truly VERY weird how things are there. They’re generally mistrusting of the government, but follow it to a T with all sorts of odd stuff (playing the national anthem at every damn opportunity / event, for a super easy example).
-usagi-95@reddit
This is the answer
Veenkoira00@reddit
To me, as an European Continental white person, British Black people (in general) come across just awfully British and North American Black people just awfully American (mostly just a little over the top in every way).
Thumbstrokes@reddit
How else are we supposed to come across? You're referring to people who were born and bred in specific regions, who happen to be from a particular race? How are Black Britons and Black Americans supposed to act?
Veenkoira00@reddit
Exactly !
Thumbstrokes@reddit
The little antidotes re. Black women and their disdain for interracial relationships are so funny. I had a white lady (customer) tell me that she was really good mates with a woman from a well connected and moneyed Irish Catholic family who made the mistake of getting pregnant by a Senegalese man. She was disowned by her family and some years after she had the baby, she ended up committing suicide. The family have refused to take the half Senegalese child in despite losing their loved one to suicide and sadlyN the child is now 'owned' by her Local Authority and doesn't yet have a permanent home. I don't feel any way about Black women's brand of resentment for IRR when this is how other people act.
kindanew22@reddit
They are often disgusted that we both eat and enjoy British food.
They are surprised that we aren’t segregated like they are.
Moist_gooch90@reddit
Yes, I was on holiday in Florida with my ex who's white back in 2015. We were in a restaurant and I heard a group of black women at a table adjacent to us make a comment along the lines of "she's too pale for him" as we were leaving. I asked my ex if that's what they said and she confirmed, apparently they'd made a few comments throughout our meal but I hadn't heard.
StarrBubb@reddit
All the time. I specifically remember one time in that old bird app, that I was called a self hater because I refused to identify as an African American……
I wish I was joking.
TheFirstMinister@reddit
I keep telling Brits that looking at the US through the prism of the UK is a waste of time. The US is NOTHING like the UK - socially, economically, culturally, etc. And yet - due, no doubt, because of US media and the English language - Brits continually compare the US to the UK. Instead, they should compare the US to countries such as Brazil, and the UK to countries on the European continent. The UK has some very peculiar attitudes when it comes to ethnicity. And so does the USA. The cultural divide between the two countries is so large, however, that these attitudes, beliefs, norms, etc. barely intersect.
And what is a "black American" anyway these days? I know a great many "black Americans" whose immediate family are tied to countries as far afield as Panama, Brazil, Nigeria, Ivory Coast to name but a few. They're 100% "black Americans" but their histories, experiences, beliefs, social status, politics, religion, etc. are utterly diverse. The Democrats famously lump all Hispanic voters into a single monolithic bloc and it costs them dear during every election cycle. People should not make the same mistake with so-called "black Americans".
fsckit@reddit
So what does comparing The UK to France tell us about the attitudes of black Americans towards mixed race marriages in the UK?
LRWR@reddit
I think the fact that it's the women who are criticising might have a lot to do with it. A BF American friend told me that black women have serious problems finding mates because so many black men will pursue, in her words 'even the ugliest, most basic white women' and completely overlook black women.
She was open and honest enough to tell me (WF) that she resents white women who date black men, and black men who date white women, for that reason.
Whereas mixed race couples here don't seem to follow a particular gender pattern.
WhatevahMingah@reddit
A post asking black people a question and most of the comments are non black people. Lovely.
Lumpy-Strain8624@reddit
Because they are the white person in the relationship with the black person?
Or are their opinions and views invalid? They never ever witness or experience it themselves?
Aren't the children of such relationships?
Reading is hard huh.
AskUK-ModTeam@reddit
Don't be a dick to each other, or other subreddits, places, or people.
Don't be a dick to each other, or other subreddits, places, or people. AskUK contains a variety of ages, experiences, and backgrounds - consider not everyone is operating on the same level or background as you. Listen to others before you respond, and be courteous when doing so.
WhatevahMingah@reddit
Just lovely.
Fit_Adhesiveness7307@reddit
You’re the racist one here.
WhatevahMingah@reddit
Seek help.
Lumpy-Strain8624@reddit
So you think their experiences of the very question asked in the OP is not valid due to their skin colour?
Lovely.
WhatevahMingah@reddit
Go argue with somebody else.
Appropriate_Emu_6930@reddit
I’m a white guy and this post has made me realise how privileged I am to just be allowed to be.
The world is an insane and dumb place.
idontlikemondays321@reddit
Nothing is comparable to race relations in the US. They are completely obsessed. The fact that the term ‘African American’ exists when many black Americans are the fifty, sixth + generation in America is bizarre to me. As is the term ‘coloniser’ being applied to white Americans 160 years after slavery was abolished, whose ancestors won’t have had anything to do with it. Imagine holding a grudge or believing a stereotype that affects you in no way for generations
Plus_Band_3283@reddit
The word coloniser still applies. Just this week Trumps lawyers were arguing against birthright citizenship for indigenous Americans.
Chemical_Ad_1618@reddit
Yeah Maya Angelou said her family she was on the mayflower and was annoyed as she’d been there for generations longer than some whites who were first, second generation.
fionsichord@reddit
‘African American’ because their knowledge and culture of where they were really from was stripped from them when they were taken to be slaves, so “African” was all they had left.
The USA is still a colony. Ask the First Nations people about it.
idontlikemondays321@reddit
Yes it made sense to use that term at one point in time. ‘African Americans’ have long been just as American as ‘European Americans’.
Informal-Share-9747@reddit
What else do you expect from all the white people replying on this post. They don't understand how people's colour and identity is important to them especially since it was stolen and especially since theyre still hated on for their skin colour. I think we should all leave African Americans alone, God knows how it must feel to share a country with people who still hate you till this day and have active groups like the kkk
zephyrthewonderdog@reddit
Work colleague(white) had a black husband. Her husband had a good career as a corporate lawyer. They were fairly well off and had two kids. Nice family.
She said she had some backlash from black women in the past because she had taken one of the ‘good ones’.
She also said some people assumed she was a single mother when they saw her with her children. They were surprised when she said she was actually happily married to their father.
This was in the UK.
Plus_Band_3283@reddit
I have black family. They were comjng to visit. A neighbour I thought was a friend was there when me and a friend were talking about seeing them, the friend is an old family friend who knows my sister, who is mixed race and her kids. I have mixed race siblings and black nieces and nephews.
This neighbour’s response to hearing my family are people of colour? “Aren’t you afraid they’ll steal everything?”
As though skin colour is criminal destiny.
Yeah, I tried to explain this and she didn’t get it. I cut her off. She wasn’t even embarrassed. This is U.K.
YogurtHead6557@reddit
I’m divorced and thinking about who comes next. As a (mildly successful) professional black man, and a single father of two young children, it makes me sad the number of black women who’ve come up to me and have said that they would be disappointed if I end up with a woman who isn’t black. I think this is a symptom of modern dating and all the data which suggests that black women are least likely to be selected on online dating apps. So I can see why these comments sometimes come up. Doesn’t excuse unwarranted criticism though.
Chemical_Ad_1618@reddit
Yeah I think racism and colourism are also at play.
cocacola-kid@reddit
The thing I find disrespectful is some black Americans calling other black Americans the N word. I have never heard this happen in the UK thankfully.
Electronic_Fun8306@reddit
iots common here in the UK.... my N, my G, Bro bro bro. lots of Black American culturalisms have been picked up by both black and white UK youth as sounding cool and GANGSTA due to American rap culture
Midnight7000@reddit
Nah, it isn't common in the UK and the fact that you're conflating the N word with G and bro is proof of that.
EmMeo@reddit
I’m not a teenager so I always thought “My G” was meant to be “my guy”. Is it not?
Son_of_a_Bacchus@reddit
Middle aged white dude chiming in, so take it with a hefty grain of salt, but I believe it's closer to "gangsta" as in an even more shortened form of "OG" Referring to a close friend as "my G" or "what's up, G" would be a way of pumping your friend up. Kind of like juggalos referring to friends as, "ninja". Also around the time "G" became a term of endearment, we also got "pimp" as a complementary term of endearment.
ImaginationInside610@reddit
G = gangsta, OG = original gangsta.
Ok-Yogurtcloset3467@reddit
It does. Im no sure why this person equated them
mongrldub@reddit
Ehhhhh I’ve definitely heard it here tbh
Forsaken-Ebb5088@reddit
Listen, man. No
merla_blue@reddit
In Leeds I heard Asian lads calling each other the P word
Chemical_Ad_1618@reddit
Wow!
xieghekal@reddit
It seems to be seen as way less offensive a word in the US and indeed other countries than in the UK (this is my perspective as a white woman).
I went to a college that had a large black population (in the UK) and the only people who used the N word was an Asian girl who called everyone "my N" and seemed to think it was okay. The black kids never used it.
Yet when I went to the US I met a white woman who liberally used it without batting an eyelid - not directing the word at black people herself, but rather talking about other people using the word towards black people. But she was saying the full word where anyone I know in the UK would say "the N word". It was really weird.
I had a similar experience in Germany and the Netherlands - people seemed to find it completely acceptable to say the full N word in casual conversation, as a white person, and would get upset with me when I would call them out on how problematic a word it is.
Boglin007@reddit
You've never heard of slur reclamation?
https://philarchive.org/archive/POPRTB
Due_Tailor1412@reddit
I think it goes in and out of fashion. I did a job with some guys and I was the only person over 30 and the only white guy (out of about 30 people), originally they were going to pay me all the money they had, but I said no I'll do it for free spend that money on food for everyone. This guy who obviously hadn't got the memo came up to me and said (along the lines of) "So you are they guy who gets all the money then?" and the director says "NO this is and he is my " Now I totally understand what was meant by this and I took it as that .. but in the back of my mind I was very aware that this word was used in Africa for slaves, not because of the colour of their skin but for people who owned in the way you might own a table and chair .. so when you put "MY" in front of it.
If I hear people using that word I assume it's with an A on the end and that is a different word, with a different meaning ..
ThatstheTahiCo@reddit
White guy here - was backpacking SE Asia with a black British mate of mine, and the Yanks kept calling him African American. When he pointed out that he wasn't American they said it was racist. Bizzare.
Plus_Band_3283@reddit
WTF! 😂
This is not the first time I’ve heard this and I’m so confused!
Chemical_Ad_1618@reddit
They think everyone’s American lol!
eves21@reddit
That sounds insane.
Turdoggen@reddit
I'm not black but I'm in a mixed relationship, white man and Asian woman.
If it makes you feel better the only hostility we've ever faced has been from white women aimed at my partner.
Make of that what you will.
sheepandlambs@reddit
As a white guy, I have noticed that a lot of the anti-white sentiment seems to only come from Americans. Obviously I have no idea what experiences black people over here have had, but it does seem like, in general, people are more inclined to get along than in America.
In general if you see Americans talking online they seem a LOT more obsessed with race than we are. To a weird extent, honestly.
Bantabury97@reddit
I've heard black Americans say black British people aren't black.
Chemical_Ad_1618@reddit
Do they have eyes?
StuartHunt@reddit
I have a black mate who was informed by a black American tourist that my mate wasn't black but an African American.
His response was golden, my ancestry is Carribbean not African and I've never even been to America, so how tf am I African American.
Puzzleheaded-Fix8182@reddit
No I haven't received critical comments from black people in US. The few I've met seemed nice. My cousins also seemed normal but they're not african American (eg will smith, Serena williams) but 2nd gen children of african immigrants.
HRHHayley@reddit
I'm a black British woman and i've lived in NYC for 12 years. I'm married to a white British man. We were looking at apartments in 2018 and 2 old black men on a stoop called me a race traitor. 🤡
We chose not to live in that neighbourhood.
THXORY@reddit
The USA is a much, much, more segregated, polarised society. It's primarily with race but it also appears in other things like religion and wealth where people move to be around other people exactly like them and form a kind of ghetto where they don't have to mix with anybody different. The Mormons are one example, where many of them live around Salt Lake City. For the wealthy, there are gated communities. It all produces social divides that are massively more extreme than the UK, which is a major reason why the USA's politics is so nutty and divided. .
Diplomatic_Gunboats@reddit
About 30 years ago my Mum (white) was invited over by a US state-based dept due to her expertise in a certain area, the usual 'lets see if we can take some learning from countries that are doing it right' thing. Because she was going to a particularly poor and deprived area, and they were placing her with a family, they were dancing around the 'do you mind if the family is black?' question for a while before she got what their issue was and reassured them.
It was somewhat hilarious how the family she was placed with lost their minds (not in a bad way) when they realised she was a)perfectly fine with black culture, b)had married a black man, c)this was normal and accepted by most, d)could cook 'black' food to a similar standard as them.
But to talk about the black women thing: This is common on both sides of the Atlantic, white partners of black men still face a huge amount of racism from black women. And not just partners, I've lost count of the comments said to me but aimed in my mum's direction. (And thats not restricted to women btw, school for me was not fun.)
Unfortunately it stems from the (misguided) feeling of some black women that white women are 'stealing' their men. Its not the majority but its not that uncommon either. Its a reaction based on culture and poverty. Inner-city poverty stricken areas which do not have a lot of hope or opportunities do not encourage strong family bonds, particularly in men. So when those black women who have been abandoned see black men with white women, they seem to think its some sort of racial thing, when its really just another bunch of low-self-esteem women with different coloured skin making equally poor choices in men.
AndroidwithAnxiety@reddit
From what I've heard, black women can face a similar sentiment if they date non-black men too. There's this idea of almost... race betrayal? Selling out?
And while there are some people who definitely have some very questionable ideas about race and who they want to date, it's weird to assume that's what's going on.
Siggi_Starduust@reddit
Is this about stealing all the acting jobs? They might have a point there but then plenty of white Brits (and Irish and Australians) do that too
Craig1974@reddit
Many black people in the US are racist which is ironic.
skyepark@reddit
There is so much separation between each star in the US and us in the UK have many of the same cultural references.. it's vastly different.
Downtown-BT-83@reddit
This happens in the UK too. Both black people & white people are guilty of it.
Upbeat-Name-6087@reddit
I have to say, I have known a number of black guys (all American but I don't know if that's a coincidence) who will happily tell me they don't date black women. When I asked what they'd say something about how they don't want to date someone who looks like their sister/mother but that always seemed to me a super weird explanation. I left with the feeling that there is something else going on under that because wtf, that ain't stopping any other race/culture.
So if that is not an uncommon attitude among at least some chunk of young black American men, I can see why black women would feel a way about it. Not that they should be making it a problem with random strangers of course.
chaostrulyreigns@reddit
The most hateful comments I've ever seen online are from black American women towards black men not dating them.
TortoiseSlap@reddit
Americans being ignorant about the rest of the world transcends race, gender, and ethnicity.
tvscanner99@reddit
Seems like most people responding are white 😂 As a black british person, let me tell you - many think the same thing here too, the only difference is they won't say it to your face like they do in the US.
doepfersdungeon@reddit
I ignore everything Americans as a rule of thumb. They are the last people I would ask for a view on the world.
OK_Cake05@reddit
On twitter, yes.
BroccoliMcFlurry@reddit
The shit they say about our music gets to me ngl 😂 that Aries Spears video in particular
Uneedtochillb@reddit
I'll be honest Reddit is never really the best place to ask these questions, I think there's a small bias here.
For the most part I only ever had positive interactions with those as part of the wider diaspora. Black culture is so strongly inspired by what black americans do, down to hair, style,.music etc. In recent years, I've only ever seen everyone embracing each other. I think while in theory there should never be any issues with other people dating people of other races, a lot of black people feel you shouldn't degrade your own lot in the process (not suggesting that's not what anyone in this thread would do).
HotPen8582@reddit
Black women hate anyone who won’t date them . The only hassle my black girlfriend and I I ever had as a white man dating black women was from black women. They only want to date a white man when they are jealous of a white man dating another black woman , and they hate seeing black men with white women . They can’t compete and their natural aggression ( which turns a lot of black men off in the first place ) comes out .
atzucach@reddit (OP)
To be fair this sounds a bit racist
Ok-Constant-2683@reddit
I've had a black British guy say the same to my partner, right in front of me (I'm white) and then look genuinely surprised when I told him to fuck off.
Dennyisthepisslord@reddit
I know a black/white couple who went to see his family in Jamaica and the locals were funny with them for being a mixed couple 🤦♂️
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