Rant: Range sucks in the EU
Posted by catboy519@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 44 comments
My ebike has 576wh. There are other Eu legal ebikes with slightly more battery, but the difference wont be big.
Problem is manufacturers assume * Healthy rider that can pedal hard * Headwind doesnt exist * People only do 5km rides
When they decide on what the buiggest battery for their ebike design should be.
EU legal ebike batteries are not designed for reality.
Anyone who * Uses their ebike as primary transportation * Isnt healthy or has other good reasons to not be pedaling many watts
Will definitely experience range problems.
"But I get 150km on my 300wh battery" Yea because you are healthy and ride your ebike with 90% legpower. You might as well switch to a lighter, regular bike. But not everyone can pedal 100+ watts
"But I pedal very little and still get great range" Yes and your 100km ride took you 7 hours because in order to achieve that range you had to go 14kph. Nty, I value my time much more than that.
Ebikes are for a great part meant for people who cannot pedal much
Zenigata@reddit
Batteries are expensive and heavy so manufacturers naturally tend not to put massive batteries which offer far more range than moat buyers need on ebikes.
I get that thus is frustrating for you but I dont think all that many people use ebikes like you do so they tens not to be made to do that. Especially not when as you point out there is a solution for long rides that doesnt involve the expensive and weight of a very large battery for everyday short journeys.
catboy519@reddit (OP)
A manufacturer could atleast design an ebike with the choice of 3 battery sizes: 500, 1000, 2000 watthours (for example)
But for some reason the steps are more like 300 vs 400 vs 500 wh per ebike
Agitated-Country-972@reddit
Why bother? Is there an advantage to them? Batteries are expensive so very few people will buy 2kWh unless they need it.
Speedtrap1@reddit
2000 wh batteries would be so big that it would not be practical for use
illeix@reddit
Not really. It'll depend on the rider and their bike, as well as the battery's location. For example, it's not all that bad if it's split up in a dual battery config; one on the top tube, one on the down tube.
catboy519@reddit (OP)
Not true even if it weighs 20kg, the bike rack and wheel can perfectly carry it.
BassesNBikes@reddit
Buy a 2nd battery and swap it out when the first is discharged, but even at high assist you should get around 25 miles out of 576Wh.
carlitobrigantehf@reddit
what distance are your weekly casual rides?
catboy519@reddit (OP)
About 37km.
gdir@reddit
I don't understand how you get such a low range. I get about 50 km out of my small 250 Wh battery with an average speed close to 25 km/h. I'm mid 50 and overweight.
classaceairspace@reddit
What has this got to do with the EU? If anything, the range on EU bikes will be better on average as the speed limit is lower. There is no limit on battery size in the EU, only nominal power output and maximum speed. Realistically, to get more range the battery needs gets bigger, heavier and also more expensive. If range is a priority then pick a bike with a big battery, my EU spec bike has an 800wh battery and I can do 90km in highest power mode.
catboy519@reddit (OP)
800wh is about the biggest youll find on any EU legal bike. Have you found any 250w ebike with 1000+ wh?
Also do you get that 90km even in a strong headwind?
pinkfloydhomer@reddit
Buy an extra battery?
classaceairspace@reddit
I don't think I've seen any bigger than this, but they probably exist. I get 90km in typical conditions, including a high bridge exposed to the elements where it's often windy, but rarely will wind always be a headwind, it evens itself out. Headwind in the way to work, tailwind home etc.
rvralph803@reddit
... You can buy more batteries. Or bigger ones. You just might have to do the most amateur level DIY electrics.
pleakonfleek@reddit
Are you allowed to carry spare batteries? Or does that 800wh the total of all batteries you have on you? Lad from the states here.
classaceairspace@reddit
I can carry a spare battery, but considering just one of them costs around €1,000, weighs 5kg and I don't need to charge it every day, it's not something I am eager to do. My commute is 30km round trip, I recharge it every 2 days so even if I forget to charge it one day then I can still make my round trip keeping an eye on the range and taking it down an assist level if needed.
catboy519@reddit (OP)
Theres no law about battery size
Although indirectly, if you pull a trailer with 300kg of battery and the trailer itself doesnt have brakes a cop could theoretically fine you for cauaing danger
nomadrone@reddit
Seems like you don’t wanna pedal at all. No one’s fault but yours that you are not in shape.
catboy519@reddit (OP)
I have health problems so cant pedal much but thanks!!
Sheshirdzhija@reddit
What about escooters? There are some seated ones. So you just need one with a big enough battery.
pastellelunacy@reddit
E-scooters are more fickle, slightly more dangerous for the rider due to their shape, and harder to keep maintained IME. They're definitely a good option, and a fun option, I still miss mine 2 years on, but I wouldn't peg them as a solid option for someone consistently doing 40km rides, who doesn't have the money or resources for better modes of transport for such lengths
The reliable brands are pretty expensive for scooters with good ranges, and the cheaper brands run into a long-term maintenance problem, at least where I live.
Sheshirdzhija@reddit
Yeah, long range complicates things.
catboy519@reddit (OP)
I don't yet have a drivers license.
nomadrone@reddit
Know your limits then.
Ill_Cheetah_1991@reddit
All of which keeps to the concept that a legal ebike is "just a bike"
and therefore does not need things like a licence/registration, insurance, tests etc etc
Anything more powerful is closer to a moped or motorbike and is not longer "just a bike"
Front_Jacket@reddit
I get around 45 miles at 15.5mph on pedal assist with a 15ah battery on Shimano gear 7. I don't put much pressure on the pedals to avoid sweating, but I don't ghost pedal either.
I imagine if I managed to make it run through throttle only it would cut the range in half.
I'm thinking of installing a second battery to the bike or just have a spare in the bag.
catboy519@reddit (OP)
That seems lretty much like my bike.
But what about headwind?
Front_Jacket@reddit
Maybe 5 miles less..I haven't gone up against super harsh winds to find out so I can't be for sure. I've not dropped below 40 miles yet. I weigh 70kg. The bike weighs at around 44kg
catboy519@reddit (OP)
When I get a serious headwind, my range is about 30km or 20miles.
Takes jist 1 hour for the battery to get empty if using at the full power
Front_Jacket@reddit
One thing i have noticed is the battery going down faster in these colder seasons.
Worried_Document8668@reddit
why cry about perfectly sensible battery sizes on most EU bikes when you could just get something gas powered with a throttle?
just like i will admit that the range i get out my bike is more of an edge case because i ride with a lot of rider power, at some point some people just aren't cut out to go certain distances on pedal assist.
in general with EU manufacturers, the battery sizes are matched to what the bikes are intended for and range anxiety isn't exactly a problem with all the riders i know.
calling out all of the EU bikes because you live in a weird edge case situation isn't exactly sensible.
i'm sure most manufacturers could do larger batteries, but the frames to mount them would need to become comically large and the bikes would get heavier and heavier.
if you really need the extra range that bad, taking along a second battery in a pannier or backpack isn't exactly a hard thing to do.
general populace is served perfectly well with 750/800wh max.
rvralph803@reddit
I get 45 mi out of a 960wh battery that has a usable capacity of 750wh and I'm towing a trailer and the full system weight including me is 240lbs. Usually trucking at 17.5 mph average speed. That's with a 750w hub motor
How the hell are you only getting around 8 mi on that battery? You presumably have a 250w nominal motor and at least 400wh of usable capacity.
At that continuous power that's around 30mi assuming you do nothing. 20 absolute min at the cap speed of 15.5.
Hungry_Orange666@reddit
Check if you really need licence for AM class moped, in some EU countries adult person can ride them without license.
Ebike manufactures care only for recreational ebikes users, and Factory build ebikes suck for commuting in general.
Sheshirdzhija@reddit
Engwe LE20 Dual battery version ~1900wh Fiido T2 ~1000wh PVY Z20 Max ~920wh
I think all can be ordered without throttle (or you can remove the throttle) to make them legal in EU.
I'm sure there are plenty more.
geoffm_aus@reddit
Mount two batteries. I did this when I commuted to work and there was no place to charge at work. One battery to get there, one to come home. I barely pedaled
catboy519@reddit (OP)
Theres no outlet at woek? Or battery stuck in the bike?
geoffm_aus@reddit
No outlet at work. My charger at the time had a very noisy fan, so I couldn't charge in the office.
catboy519@reddit (OP)
Thats weird why would a workplace not have outlets
geoffm_aus@reddit
Most car parks in Australia don't have power outlets, and most bike sheds are in the car park
catboy519@reddit (OP)
Ive misread your previous comment
Schemeckles@reddit
The thing with Ebikes you have to ask yourself is...
At what distance does it not become practical anymore? Or make sense to use an ebike as your method of transportation.
If your daily commute is over say 40-50km, at that point it probably makes sense just to look into an alternative method of transportation.
Same thing with speed. Where I live the maximum speed for bikes is 32km/h. If you really want to go faster... look into a moped/motorcycle.
But that's the thing with this community... some people in here bash on the bikes and manufacturers. But they're just bikes... if you want to go farther and faster - you have an option. It's called a motorcycle.
But wait... that would require license.. insurance.. maybe payments...
catboy519@reddit (OP)
I will buy a car when I get my license but thats only a solution for the future. For now I depend mostly on my ebike as I can't just grt a license instantly by snapping my fingers. Getting one here in NL is a very slow process ans theyre possibly still working tru the delay from covid
Pau-de-cavalo-@reddit
It sucks when world does not adapt to us… be prepared, it will happen with many other things.