How does your country’s second biggest city compare to the capital?
Posted by abandonedtulpa@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 214 comments
Curious how it is across the Balkans. In some countries the second biggest city feels almost as important as the capital, while in others it’s way more chill or maybe even struggling.
For example, in Bulgaria, Plovdiv vs Sofia feels somewhat different. Sofia is obviously the economic center with most of the jobs and opportunities, but Plovdiv is still quite lively, has a strong cultural scene, and doesn’t feel “dead” at all. It’s just more relaxed and less chaotic.
baraumba@reddit
In Romania, no one knows which is the country's second city. The battle is between Iași, Cluj and Timișoara, all with significantly smaller populations than Bucharest, somewhere between 400k and 500k with the metropolitan area. All the residents of these cities say that theirs is the country's second city.
Istar10n@reddit
Bucharest vs Cluj.
Bucharest is much bigger, but I think they're pretty similar in terms of day to day life.
Architecturally, they're pretty different. They both have a lot of communist era buildings, but the historical ones are French style in Bucharest and Saxon/Hungarian style in Cluj.
There are some cultural differences too as Transylvania had Austro-Hungarian influence instead of Ottoman.
GreenWheeat1@reddit
Cluj is the 5th-7th(depending on the source) biggest city in Romania, nowhere near the second. what are you on about? It was the 2nd in 1990 census maybe
Istar10n@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_and_towns_in_Romania
Or if you want something more official:
https://www.recensamantromania.ro/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Tabel-1.22.xlsx
I have no idea where you're getting 5th-7th.
GreenWheeat1@reddit
Outdated information combined with bad reports and a malpraxis of a census.
Bucharest has 1.7 million officially, Iasi is the second one with around 330k, Timisoara 320k, Constanta 310k, Craiova 300k, Brasov 285k and Cluj Napoca 275k.
Or can someone explain how can multiple important cities all lose 50k people in 10 years while in reality they get even more crowded?
Aggressive-Form-4323@reddit
https://romania.europalibera.org/a/recensamant-2022-orase-timisoara-cluj/32250466.html
Accordino to the census, your Numbers don’t lign up
MindDivergence@reddit
Am subiectivitatea de ardelean, dar clima e mai buna la Cluj, de asemenea.
Istar10n@reddit
Am fost in Cluj o singura data, weekendul trecut si cred ca am avut ghinion cu vremea, mai ales pentru alergat. Ce-i drept, a fost OK Luni si Marti, am putut vizita orasul fara umbrela.
MindDivergence@reddit
Daca erai atent la meteo, a fost ploios in toata Transilvania, oana “jos” poalele muntilor (Sibiu)
Oricum, nu a mai plouat de aproape doua luni, de cand am avut zapada. A fost binevenita!
RougeBasic100@reddit
Climate is better in Cluj, summers in Bucharest are horrid.
Nice-Ad8877@reddit
Also Cluj is more expensive than Bucharest in general but it doesn’t make much sense
sherlockjura@reddit
I've literally traveled through Romania 2 weeks ago, and the difference is massive between the two cities, which i did not expect. Cluj feels like a proper Central European city, its clean, feels alive and young, and again, very clean. The downside is that sometimes it feel a bit dull compared to Bucharest. Bucharest is so rough compared to Cluj, the traffic is horrid, theres some nice areas but overall it's very unkempt and chaotic. Sometimes it's fun chaos, sometimes not so much.
neilabz@reddit
Plovdiv feels so different to me compared to Sofia. Obviously a different size but life is way more relaxed and slow. Sofia is pretty flat but Plovdiv has lots of hills. People in Sofia can be stern whereas Plovdiv people are warmer.
dsilva_Viz@reddit
Also, Plodviv is warmer in terms of climate as well.
neilabz@reddit
Varna and Burgas people seem the most friendly but I think that’s because of the tourism
Happy-Hour88@reddit
I wouldn't say Varna people have been particularly friendly, but not unfriendly, either.
Happy-Hour88@reddit
It's also way more Ottoman in culture, while Sofia might as well be Serbian-aligned.
HorrorsPersistSoDoI@reddit
On the contrary - Plovdiv is flat and Sofia is uneven.
neilabz@reddit
But Sofia is in a valley where the centre is very flat and only the suburbs are on a hill? Plovdiv old town is very hilly
HorrorsPersistSoDoI@reddit
Well yes, the old town is on one of the hills, but besides the hills, the rest of the terrain in the city is flat
reverber@reddit
Are you talking about the sidewalks? ;)
HorrorsPersistSoDoI@reddit
No, the whole city of Sofia is uneven because it's in the base of a mountain, so most main roads and city cocks are up and down, while Plovdiv is mainly flat and the only uneven areas are the hills
Acrobatic-Brother568@reddit
Unfortunately, we're not warmer at all mate. I wish we were.
neilabz@reddit
You were nicer and more patient to me than the people in Sofia. Except in one Burgas bar where the customers made fun of my bad Bulgarian language skills lol
Acrobatic-Brother568@reddit
I'm glad you had a good experience, just don't stay in Plovdiv longer lol
neilabz@reddit
I lived in Sofia and took my parents to Plovdiv! We loved it.
canyoubelieveitt@reddit
Plovdiv is better than Sofia in terms of architecture and cultural heritage, but its because Sofia fucked up doing more with the fact that under the ground everywhere in the city center are Roman ruins. And I mean actual OG Rome, not the Byzantines. It also has a colloseum which is sizable and it just is buried and nothing is done with it. Also sidewalks are in critical condition and so are building facades. Note the average salary in Sofia net is 1500 euro nowadays but the city still looks shitty.
Happy-Hour88@reddit
If you think sidewalks in Sofia are bad don't visit Varna, I'm still in shock.
MartinBP@reddit
Average salary is closer to 1800 at this point.
Sofia fucked up because the communists demolished everything damaged during WW2 (and then some) and the post-communist administrations couldn't create a general urban plan for the city. Unlike other capital cities in the EU like Warsaw and Vilnius, Sofiantsi would rather demolish beautiful old buildings and build a glass box they can sell and then retire in some village. Nevsky was a fucking roundabout for decades. Shishman Street was fully pedestrianised and the geniuses there demanded cars be returned because using the 274719 public transport options around them was "for them poors".
Plovdiv is still fucked though with the incompetent GERB council unable to build a public transport network for two damn decades now.
canyoubelieveitt@reddit
The old buildings cant be fixed. This is because of the ridiculous laws that require agreement of every single "owner". The problem comes when a 150 year old building sometimes has 50 owners, nowadays spread all over the world, half of which dont even know about the existence of said building. This law needs to be adapted for these things to change.
LargeFriend5861@reddit
I'd say you overexagerate. Yes, a lot was demolished by the commies, but not all. A ton was rebuild pretty close to how it was before, or in a new stalinist style which... better than what came afterwards, tbf. The city planning could also use some work, but recently, it's been a bit better, I'd argue. We lost Shishman, but we have other pedestrian roads, more overall than ever. And a lot of buildings are being renovated, especially with recent programs.
The problem with renovations, tho isn't the wealth, but the ownership laws. When a building is divided between God knows how many descendants of the original owner, and God knows how many are abroad with little care aboht that, and how many others don't live anywhere near it... no wonder it'll look worse overtime.
Sofia still has a good mix of all kinds of architecture.
As for the Roman ruins? A good portion is dug up, but many are either in private property (the amphitheater you mentioned). Btw, that amphitheater is likely not as well preserved underground anyway, but I agree it's a shame. And other roman ruins are right under the parliamentary, ministry and presidential buildings... I'd say we should keep those rather than unearthe more ruins imo.
Mysterious-Put1459@reddit
Respectfully Sofia's Roman heritage is nowhere near Plovdiv's
LargeFriend5861@reddit
Its respectable... but yes. Plovdiv was the bigger Roman city, afterall.
crivycouriac@reddit
Maribor saw better days
Happy-Hour88@reddit
I visited it last year and it's quite nice, but I've lived in Slovakia where their first and second cities are both worse managed.
kovdom992@reddit
It is better than it used to be. Meanwhile Ljubljana and its people have a major superiority complex and it is as expensive as Western Europe.
klmzx@reddit
I'm not from Ljubljana, but come on. Maribor cannot compare.
TheSamuil@reddit
Really? I remember being rather impressed when I visited Maribor a few years ago
kovdom992@reddit
Maribor city centre has improved a lot, also the Lent area around the Drava river has become really nice. But yes, some areas are typical post socialist with terrible roads and grey blocks. Especially Tezno and parts of Nova vas and Tabor.
Because it is a post industrial town it also has some old abandoned factories literally falling apart.
mugo1234@reddit
I'm a 38 yo mariborian and tbfh i don't remember better days lol
mw2lmaa@reddit
Totally different.
Absolutely not comparable!
Tiny_Stranger7162@reddit
Honestly I found Graz very strange in comparison to Vienna, Graz feels like villages around city centre. Went through centre, turned left and now I’m in one of the nice Austrias villages
klmzx@reddit
isnt that nice
Gemascus01@reddit
In what terms? What does the location have to do in your country? Or you mean Graz is diff just bcs of the anount of “Yugos” per capita there?
Living-Cheetah-8983@reddit
Split, Croatia - also known as Africa with electricity.
LargeFriend5861@reddit
Tf is wrong with Split? It looks decent.
Gemascus01@reddit
That city was and is a shithole. Basicly a communist city with a lot of hills and a lot of communists blocks/buildings, I am from Zagreb and been there for a visit.
Split is fameous cuz of parties and drugs nothing else
Viper02@reddit
I agree about Split, but cant say that while Zagreb is a urbanized mess with mass quick development buildings tightly built next to eachother with no plan. And city center where every building has fasade crumbling from it, it would look nice if repaired but thats not happening soon. And Zagreb also has endless commie buildings all is grey and depressing. Studying in Zagreb now so can say what im seeing.
Names-Are-Confusing@reddit
Odi nazad, dotepenec
Viper02@reddit
Budem se vratio nazad ne brini
Names-Are-Confusing@reddit
Lepo
Living-Cheetah-8983@reddit
Look at the infrastructure built in the last 1500 years, disregard the Roman infra for a moment.
klevis99@reddit
Durrës is very mismanaged. It has many archaelogical sites that serve as tourist spots and many more that are yet to be unearthed, or have unfortunately been covered in concrete. Our municipality is borderline useless, we have been flooded these last 2 years more times than in the previous 15 combined, due to poor waterworks management. Job opportunities are also heavily focused on tourism so we arent that good in that front compared to Tirana.
danielthomasinc@reddit
Love Durrës though, spent a decent bit of time split between there and Tirana back in 2022, charming and pretty walkable, I know most people go south for the beaches but it was pretty warm and nice even in the late spring.
klevis99@reddit
It has its charm and benefits for sure, maybe i sounded too harsh in my comment. Ive lived here all my life and i want things to be better as right now i see a lot of wasted potential.
danielthomasinc@reddit
Oh no man I totally get you, i just got excited when I saw Durrës mentioned lol, you're correct in that the city has been mismanaged, it really has a lot of potential but hopefully soon it'll finally live up to how it could be.
NoScreen54@reddit
very similar situation to the 2nd biggest city in kosovo, prizren. despite its historical & archaeological importance, it is very mismanged. a lot of slop construction done near the historical area, like demolishing old houses and making a big apartments, very bad infrastructure, etc, which is a shame because of how beautiful the city is, same goes with durres, they deserve better.
yaboijesse123@reddit
I remember I’ve visited both Tirana and Durrës as a tourist. I really liked Albania, but goddamn, Durrës felt so much poorer than Tirana. There is like a tiny area in the city centre that felt “touristy”, but that was maybe 200 meters. I saw lots of beggars and all that. A lot of little (of what I assume) gypsy kids tried to get our money.
Ujemegaz@reddit
Apart from a the 100m radius in municipality, the rest of the city has no character. It is so generic and so boring, that you totally forget Durres is a thousands year old city with a characteristic coast.
klevis99@reddit
It is much poorer due to bad management and corruption over multiple years. On the beggars part they stay in the city center and more come from different cities during tourist season to beg. Never give them anything.
Ok-Shame-5966@reddit
Plovdiv obliterates Sofia
SeventeenFifty@reddit
Public transport infrastructure, access to higher wages, climate, events & culture say very much otherwise, but cope ahead please.
Ok-Shame-5966@reddit
Enjoy the lung cancer air you breathe. The only thing y'all villagers can brag about is the metro
SeventeenFifty@reddit
I thought Plovdiv obliterates Sofia, why reply to only one point out of five?
Plovdiv has a very similar traffic problem to Sofia, with the exception that public transport is not an alternative. So your air shouldn't be that pure.
Also, villagers, really? гузен негонен бяга, майна
Ok-Shame-5966@reddit
Villager-land. There are more villagers in Sofia than Turks in Berlin. What's so good about Sofia anyways, villager ?
LargeFriend5861@reddit
Its amazing... but Sofia is better than many give it credit for. People just love to shit on it.
Ok-Shame-5966@reddit
Sofia is literally Half Life 2 irl
tamzhebuduiya@reddit
Bulgaria actually have 2x second biggest city. Varna has identical population and higher salaries than Plovdiv.
MartinBP@reddit
Varna's metro population is substantially smaller than Plovdiv's.
AideSpartak@reddit
But the city of Varna itself has a higher population if we are being realistic
throwaway50cent_@reddit
Well, not many people are living in the literal sea, to be fair
AdventurousLion1948@reddit
Cluj-Napoca, Romania.
People from Bucharest usually jokes that it's just a village with flat blocks. Actually, the city has better architecture than Bucharest imo, but overall Bucharest is better. It's funny because someone from Bucharest almost never like Cluj, and someone from Cluj never like Bucharest :D
StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit
Better architecture? Nah, just Hungarian and German.
It doesn't stink and it's way more orderly but it's got only 280.000, like 1/3 of a sector in Bucharest, not comparable.
fallen380@reddit
Actually, Bucharest's Sectors have lower populations than you might think. So Cluj Napoca would be ranked 4th or 5th in terms of population.
StevenAdamsInDallas@reddit
Nah, we're way past 3 million, those are just official stats.
LivingIntensely@reddit
Well, if same logic applies to Cluj, then its population shoots to 450.000.
neversaydie96@reddit
Yeah bro, if we do it like this, we can also add all the metropolitan area, Floresti has like 52k residents officially and around 70k in reality, and why not the whole Cluj county while we are at it, stop please.
Bucharest is just below 2 mil, and Cluj-Napoca has between 300k and 350k.
MindDivergence@reddit
Bucureștiului i s-a distrus parte din arhitectura datorita comunismului. Are si el multe “piese” arhitecturale frumoase.
SoulEkko@reddit
I visit Cluj a few times per year, so I know some people from there and they often stated that Cluj feels like a bigger village, and they like Bucharest for the big city feel. I, as a Bucharester, like Cluj for its slower pace and generally more laid back vibes, it's more relaxing.
You can find a nice rent in a nice neighborhood in Bucharest and have a similar QOL and quietude as Cluj (or any other mid-sized city) but with the perks of the big city. Cluj on the other hand has a better university experience and is a magnet for Transylvanian youth overall (alongside Timisoara).
They are different cities with different qualities, so it's like picking between two foods you like.
int23_t@reddit
Capital
int23_t@reddit
Second biggest city
SeaWorth6552@reddit
Too much green
int23_t@reddit
actual photo
New_Breadfruit5664@reddit
Made my day
Big_Natural4838@reddit
Not urban hell at all, but compared to Stanbul it looks very sad.
int23_t@reddit
Almost the only difference outside of historical areas is the existence of sea, it's crazy how much a little blue in the background can change.
osumanjeiran@reddit
???? not even close
OldYogurt7161@reddit
Who told you that we dont have a little blue background in Ankara. Thanks to the glasses of CSO ada.
By the way this photo was taken from r/Turkey. I dont remember the name of post.
Mysterious_Might3977@reddit
neilabz@reddit
Most mysterious “Balkan” capital
Narrow_Safety_957@reddit
Lae Papue New Guinea, most tropical Balkan second largest city.
Ok-Significance4702@reddit
Someone once told me that the best thing about a trip to Ankara was going back to Istanbul.
Sekalino@reddit
thatMrGecko@reddit
Emotional_Gur_2959@reddit
Same. Literally the same
tzoum_trialari_laro@reddit
Thessaloniki is a pretty lively city, lots of university students, nightlife on par with Athens (some would claim better). Much more chill than Athens both due to size, population (5 million vs 1 million) and local mindset. I would say it has a far more “Balkan” vibe than Athens.
konschrys@reddit
Since when does Athens have a population of 5 million?
EternalPrince54@reddit
people love this urban legend 😂
konschrys@reddit
I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted. Athens has a metro population of 3.7 million.
No_Pomelo1454@reddit
To me Thessaloniki seems more central European. Probably it is because of its architecture or its urban planning at least in the centre of the city. I think it's a place with a huge potential
JoTenshi@reddit
And has less crime than Athens as well.
As long as it’s not football related…
Affectionate-Arm-405@reddit
Fuck those guys. (From any team). I used to be into it and it's getting old
TrainingHeavy1666@reddit
Sure, Thessaloniki isn't as chaotic as Athens, but it’s still a big city with traffic, job competition, and very high rent. The whole 'laid-back' (chalara) vibe in Thessaloniki only exists if you are a student.
MartinBP@reddit
I've heard good things about Thessaloniki from Bulgarians who've visited it.
Except the traffic.
TrainingHeavy1666@reddit
It's fine for tourists. Everywhere is fine if you have free time and you are on vacations.Other than that,Thessaloniki is not a beautiful city,only Aristotelous square and some museums in my opinion. And I live in Thessaloniki and im married in Thessaloniki. I love this city but its just not as beautiful as other cities and islands in Greece and/or Europe. The good is that Chalkidiki is close to Thessaloniki so you can easily find a beautiful beach some kilometers away from Thessaloniki
neilabz@reddit
Also fiercely “Macedonian” maybe only Crete has a comparable regional pride
kostasnotkolsas@reddit
fircely anti athenian, we hate their language, their food, their attitude, their sports teams.
Athenians could not give a shit, they mostly like us.
AccomplishedQuit6535@reddit
Thessaloniki is also way cleaner and better cared of than Athens.
tzoum_trialari_laro@reddit
Athens has cleaned up a lot since the crisis years but some areas are still in dire need of care. I think this perception of Athens comes both from those years and the fact the historical center (Monastiraki square and surroundings) feels rundown even compared to the rest of downtown
AccomplishedQuit6535@reddit
The center of Athens is neglected and dirty. The suburbs are ok.
the_TIGEEER@reddit
Interesting
FerretExtension7048@reddit
in Serbia Belgrade is of course center of all happenings and events etc.,but Novi Sad is still oretty important,it is not small and has some city vibe.
sherlockjura@reddit
Novi Sad is on course to become Beograd 2.0, it's really sad what happened to it in the last 10-15 years. Systematic destruction of once most liveable city in Serbia.
cafesolitito@reddit
All of my Serbian friends tell me Novi Sad is much more preferable/classically Serbian these days due to the growth and gentrification of Belgrade. Don't know I that's BS or hipster complaining or what
equili92@reddit
It was true but soon won't be.... Novi Sad is transitioning and Belgradefying. The search is on for the next normal city
m1lam@reddit
Subotica is honestly the only real choice. Nis and Kragujevac are too rundown
arzt___fil@reddit
Niš actually glowed-up in the last decade, very much connected to the success of the airport (which Belgrade doesn't allow to develop further). Now you can feel it's a biger city, foreign tourists are coming, as well as workers and students, it wasn't like that before 2015.
I live in Munich, man definitely notice those things when visiting Niš 2-3 times a year.
equili92@reddit
Sombor is also nice
m1lam@reddit
Yeah some surveys were done on the livability in Serbian cities and Sombor came out on top by a pretty wide margin. That said it's kind of a small town in comparison with Novi Sad or Nis
kuhinjski@reddit
Knjaževac it is
Cool-Pie430@reddit
All roads lead to Č*čak
Mashinekalibar123@reddit
Novi Sad has 3x population growth Belgrade has
cafesolitito@reddit
That’s insane. Is it mostly Serbs? Also Russians and other regional people?
Mashinekalibar123@reddit
Probably some kind of mix. Novi Sad unlike Belgrade atleast gets a proper manufacturing companies. Belgrade gets none. In belgrade there is huge wealth desparity and being a lower class is probably better in novi sad
FerretExtension7048@reddit
wdym
xBlackDot@reddit
We will visit Plovdiv this summer for a music festival. Looking forward to explore the city vibes! If you are local please recommend places to visit, eat, drink. We are into alternative lifestyle also :)
Stormrage44@reddit
Do you know where these pics are from? Especially right bottom and left center
abandonedtulpa@reddit (OP)
They are from Plovdiv’s old town, and if you're talking about the architecture, yes it's similar to Ottoman but it's not Ottoman. It's called Bulgarian National Revival and the key differences are the bright colors, rich decoration, and especially the large overhanging upper floors and symmetrical layouts, which reflect a mix of local Bulgarian traditions and some Western influences
Stormrage44@reddit
Thanks. Yeah right bottom looks Ottoman, I really like this type of buildings with wooden ornaments and not much left like those. Unlike in Germany where they have towns full of original houses.
MartinBP@reddit
Bulgaria has many towns and villages with such architecture, like Melnik, Koprivshtitsa, Tryavna, Etara in Gabrovo, Blagoevgrad, Karlovo, Kazanluk, Kovachevitsa, Kosovo, Sozopol, Nesebar etc.
Stormrage44@reddit
Wait kosovo is bulgaria now?
SeventeenFifty@reddit
As long as it isn't in Serbia, it's good news.
Frosty-Feeling338@reddit
Here in Greece many cities that is as important as capital . Thessaloniki, Patra and many more ! Which life is much better that Athens .
SelfRepa@reddit
I am not counting in Espoo, which is basically grown into Helsinki, and is part of Helsinki metro area.
So Tampere it is. Very nice city, inland, between two big lakes. Most liked city in Finland. Has quite unique feel and athmosphere. Has grown a lot during past few years and taked advantage of it's location.
No-Lawfulness-699@reddit
Split, location wise/geographically obviously is 100 times better. Also the city is more beautiful, plus you know, the Adriatic and stuff.
Mentality? I'm not sure, I'm not from the capital, so I'm not a fan of that mentality either.
NoSync22@reddit
Location-wise, allow me to disagree. Zagreb is a stone’s throw from the seaside, the Alps and a lot of major European cities. Of course the coast around Split is beautiful, but that’s not all there’s to location.
No-Lawfulness-699@reddit
Yes, agreed but I'd still rather walk to the beach versus drive an hour and a half minimum to get to the beach.
I don't personally care so much about the Alps or the mountains, as I'm from the coast myself.
Rijeka, in that case, would be the perfect choice for you and for me personally as it is by far my favorite large city in Croatia.
NoSync22@reddit
Yep, I don’t care for the seaside much but I love Rijeka. If I didn’t have to be reasonably close to an airport with a minimum amount of connections I’d consider moving there.
OkWorld4800@reddit
Zagreb vs Split Day and night difference in terms of job opportunities. Zagreb is the only real economic hub in Croatia. While in Split, more than 50% of its job market is centered around tourism. Id argue that outside tourism, theres more job opportunities in Rijeka, our third largerst city, as oppose to Split.
Poglavnik_Majmuna01@reddit
To be fair, Rijeka was always the true 2nd city of Croatia.
Split is merely an overgrown town
Bruso94@reddit
Yeah right...
Careless-Giraffe-679@reddit
But I would actually like to see your arguments...
Poglavnik_Majmuna01@reddit
In the early 20th century Rijeka had over 2x larger population than Split and was basically on par with Zagreb. It took until the 1970s or 1980s for Split to become the larger of the two by population.
Rijeka was a wealthy major industrial hub and the 2nd largest port of the Austro-Hungarian Empire that had a developed railway network system. In this time period, Split was a town in the poorest and least industrialised region of the Austro-Hungarian empire. Split was not even connected to the rest of the country by rail until 1925.
Rijeka is the 2nd wealthiest and most developed region in the entire country.
As we all know the late 19th century and early 20th century were some of the most significant periods in history for urban development. It is obvious that Rijeka has a significantly stronger and more developed industrial and urban core than Split.
Tajaporeza@reddit
Key word is WAS!
OkWorld4800@reddit
Split is making a shit ton of money solely based on tourism, it brings nothing else to the table
Careless-Giraffe-679@reddit
Fair enough, and everything you say is correct but we're not talking about history. All of the cities grew significantly in the last century, the only difference is significantly worse starting position for Split and the fact that the ex state was the first one who invested into Split and Dalmatia as a region. You could probably argue that if there wasn't geographical constraint, Rijeka might've grown more.
I wouldn't say that Rijeka is necessarily more developed than Split. It has the geographical advantage for being an important port and that probably boosts its' economical statistics (similar to tourism and Split) but I wouldn't use it as an argument that it's a true 2nd city.
Split is heavily dependant on tourism and I hate that about it. Hopefully IT will develop further even though it's still more developed than in Rijeka (as far as I am aware). Due to shitty rail network we don't really have a chance for a serious industrial development, and due to centralisation we can't really become a financial/business hub so becoming an important smaller tech hub is the only good development opportunity from the way I see it.
It's sad, and it probably happens in Rijeka too, to see talented and ambitious individuals leave for Zagreb because there isn't enough opportunities at home.
Maybe I am subjective, but I would say that what differs Split (and it's surrounding area) from Rijeka and Zagreb is that people move to live here because they want it, not because they have to if they want to have a (good) job. Of course, there are people from here who hate it and leave, but I think those are minority.
Poglavnik_Majmuna01@reddit
The thing is that history is still more than visible in the present.The post ww2 urbanisation of places was more focused on suburbs rather than the city centre which remained practically identical to how they were in the early 20th century. That is why Rijeka’s urban core is closer to cities like Zagreb in magnitude and grandeur whereas Split’s urban core is closer in size to the other coastal towns of Dalmatia.
I do not intend to diss Split, it’s a beautiful city and architecturally far more valuable than anything Rijeka has to offer. But at the end of the day Rijeka was planned with the purpose of becoming a major city, Split was a town that suddenly became a major city.
Careless-Giraffe-679@reddit
I didn't take anything as an insult, this is a rare civilised discussion on reddit :D (especially with RI and ST as a topic). Just bringing our own arguments into it..,
I would add that both of them suddenly became major cities just in different historical periods so Rijeka had a longer time to build on that.
Also with magnitude and grandeur as a criteria, Rijeka should still be in the third place - Zagreb being first with magnitude and Split with grandeur (I mean, there is a palace as a centerpiece :D).
Rijeka is close to Zagreb in an architectural style because of Austro-Hungarian influence though.
Poglavnik_Majmuna01@reddit
I think my version of grandeur is slightly different. For instance, Split cathedral may be more architecturally valuable than Zagreb’s cathedral, but Zagreb cathedral is still more grand.
I personally prefer the largely Romanesque-gothic-renaissance architecture of Split, but I don’t see them as being more grand than those colossal palaces and buildings of Rijeka, they literally dwarf both Split and Zagreb in size.
So yeah, I view Rijeka as having both a larger urban core and also having more imposing buildings. It is definitely the closest in appearance to what you’d consider a major city in rest of Europe aside from Zagreb.
OkWorld4800@reddit
I agree. Imo Rijeka feels a lot more urban than Split, generally speaking.
AusCro@reddit
I've been told IT is growing in Split. Any truth to that?
Careless-Giraffe-679@reddit
I wouldn't really say it's growing, more like stagnating on a decent level. Unfortunately, most of the companies are agencies and there is just a couple of innovative product companies. Occasionally you see some company from Split having a great product and getting acquired or funded by VCs, but those are exceptions, not the rule.
If you don't look just at the companies, there is a decent number of IT professionals in Split who work for foreign companies over b2b contracts.
DctrJTAssassin@reddit
🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
deviendrais@reddit
I think Banja Luka might be the most boring “major” city (185k inhabitants) in the Balkans. It seems like a pretty good city to live in, but every time I try to find things to see there as a tourist there’s just nothing to convince me. Bjeljina is more interesting to me as a city in Rep. Srpska
CamelAmbitious7425@reddit
Republika Srpska is not a country
psyspin13@reddit
He mentioned BL as the 2nd largest city in Bosnia
Interesting_Pear4135@reddit
Except it's not. I agree it's the second most "important" city, but Tuzla is way bigger.
deviendrais@reddit
Never said that it was but ok. I understand that people nowadays struggle with basic reading comprehension
CamelAmbitious7425@reddit
Why are you than talking about it when it has nothing to do with the question of OP?
AogamiBunka@reddit
"Why are you than talking about it when it has nothing to do with the question of OP?"
I had to look it up but Banja Luka is listed as Bosnia's second largest city by population. OP asked "how does your country's second biggest city compare to the capital?"
CamelAmbitious7425@reddit
Why is He talking then about republika Srpska in a topic about countries? Why cant he Just say that he prefers Bijeljina over Banja Luka without mentioning Republika Srpska? This is Like me saying i dont Like Novi Sad, Subotica is my favorite City in Vojvodina, or i dont Like Thessaloniki, Serres is my favorite City in Macedonia. Saying Something Like this doesnt make any sense in the context of the question of OP.
AogamiBunka@reddit
I don't know anything about Bijelina, and can't answer for the poster. Would you have a mental meltdown if someone mentioned a German federal state, too?
I'm partial to Rheinland-Pfalz.
CamelAmbitious7425@reddit
No, it’s simply about staying on topic. If the topic is countries, you should talk about countries and not about regions or political constructs, is that so hard to understand?
AogamiBunka@reddit
The topic isn't "countries" -- the topic/question is regarding how the second largest city in the country compares to the capital:
I think you need some oxygen.
CamelAmbitious7425@reddit
Are you trolling? "Bijeljina is more interesting to me as a city in Rep. Srpska" This was His last sentence. What has republika Srpska to do with OPs question? He didnt mention Bosnia And Herzegowina with one word but Republika Srpska! Just by reading his text someone who is less educated and doesnt know where Banja Luka or Bijeljina are would think they are in a country named Republika Srpska.
deviendrais@reddit
Take your schizophrenia pills and log off from the internet for a day bro
CamelAmbitious7425@reddit
Just accept that Bosnia And Herzegovina is your country, Repubila Srpska is and will never be one.
deviendrais@reddit
I mostly talked about Banja Luka aka Bosnia’s second largest city. Only my last sentence was dedicated to Republika Srpska because I said that I liked Bijeljina more as a tourist, and the only reason why I brought it up was because it’s the most similar city to BL in many aspects.
If someone said “I like Šibenik more than Split when it comes to cities in Dalmatia” would you also say “Dalmatia is not a country”? Looks like you would.
CamelAmbitious7425@reddit
Yes If the topic is about countries and somebody starts talking about Dalmatia i would say the same.
lelebato@reddit
well if it was a country, Banja Luka would be the largest city. I don’t know how that relates to this topic
ExtremeProfession@reddit
True, Banja Luka is clean and orderly, decentish infrastructure as well, but to me it feels a bit empty and definitely not as affluent as Sarajevo, not even Mostar.
Random-name-number@reddit
Its a bit smaller
mamlazmamlazic@reddit
Novi Sad (2nd largest) is like St. Bernard compared to so Belgrade's psychotic Chihuahua
NNredE@reddit
In Bulgaria, I would always choose Plovdiv over Sofia.
In Serbia, Belgrade and Novi Sad are kinda creating a "Megapolis", with a train between them in 30 mins. Niš, as the third, is more different, less urbanised, but still lively.
NoSync22@reddit
The train stops rather far from the center now though, pretty bad for commuters. Hopefully things will be fixed sooner rather than later…
LargeFriend5861@reddit
I love Plovdiv and ALMOST everything about it (please, let the city fix its public transportation and traffic congestion). But overall, Sofia is just my preferred vibe. It's nice, also quite diverse in architecture and history, and not as bad as many say it is. People just love to shit on it due to how its been for decades, still far from ideal mind you... but its MUCH better and only progressing. Both are amazing for different reasons imo.
bendzaminnetanjahu@reddit
Novi Sad used to be much calmer and nicer like 10 years ago. Then the percentage of migrants increased, Covid happened, and now it's like a watered down boring version of Belgrade. Although there's still cultural differences.
I'd say the north and the south like Subotica, Niš, maybe Kragujevac, Šabac, Sombor are nicer.
themightykolar@reddit
Da li je moguce da se toliko promenio od 2016.? Ajde pojasni
5555555555558653@reddit
How can migrants be an issue when non Serbian migrants in the city are only 2-4%? Many of whom are from former Yugoslavia countries.
_talioN_@reddit
Budapest: 1,7M population (the metropolitan area is 3,4M)
Debrecen: 199 858
I would say the difference is visible.
Drwgeb@reddit
I heard that the only point of newspapers in Debrecen is to use it to cover szalonna.
_talioN_@reddit
the rumour is true
Icy_Manufacturer2366@reddit
Thessaloniki is way more beautiful than Athens.
Jenny-P67@reddit
Mir gefällt Hamburg, unsere Nummer 2, sehr gut: Hafen, Musikaltheater, Elbphilharmonie, Miniaturwunderland, ...
arzt___fil@reddit
Haha, mein Liebling, Grüße aus München, aber wir beide wohnen außerhalb des Balkans 😀
Falls es dir etwas bedeutet: Ich bevorzuge Hamburg gegenüber München; ich lebe nur wegen meiner Frau hier. Moin !
P-l-Staker@reddit
Hamburg is a very prominent city in history too! A Free City in the Holy Roman Empire and a key member of the Hansaetic League. They have a strong maritime legacy, I believe.
DragonflyOwn5617@reddit
HorrorsPersistSoDoI@reddit
Very Balkan answer
tekedagreek@reddit
It’s better. Especially in football. 😜
TravelBulky418@reddit
...
TravelBulky418@reddit
. It
bipolar1_baby325@reddit
Durres is the second biggest city but very mismanaged. It has so many historical sites but feels like a ugly town .
kostasnotkolsas@reddit
THESSALONIKI MENTIONED 💪💪💪NOW WITH A METRO 💪💪💪ATHENIAN COBRAS STILL MAD 💪💪💪
kostasnotkolsas@reddit
seriously Thessaloniki is a very different city historically and culturaly to Athens, or other greek cities in general.
It was the second most important city in the Eastern roman empire and the ottoman empire, during that time Athens was a backwater village with some ancient ruins. So both the tourist sites are different (Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman rather than classical Greek) but also the fabric of the city is much more Balkan. Thessaloniki was also much more developed as a city when it became part of Greece in 1912, more jobs, more trade, more industry, something that was fought by the Athenian bourgeois class through various means (ie treating northern Greece like a colony politically). This gave Thessaloniki a massive complex against Athens and its highly visible in the sports rivalries with the Athenian clubs.
Contemporary Thessaloniki is one of the most vibrant cities in Europe when it comes to nightlife, afterall 100k of the 1 million people in Thessaloniki are students. The job market is worse though
WitherCro2@reddit
Tourist hotspot
Misargiride@reddit
It's... Basically its own thing.
Rome is the administrative, historical and cultural capital.
Milan is the economic heart of the country.
BLA5TER@reddit
How? We have been in the Champions League three times, our capital didnt! :)
Ultimate_President@reddit
Novi Sad and i like it more than Belgrade to be honest
R-R_turfio@reddit
In Armenia we don't have a city comparable to the capital city. 12 times less population
No_Chocolate9486@reddit
Cluj is the second biggest city in Romania, and it should be the capital. It’s better than Bucharest in literally every way, and it’s not even close. It's just objectively superior. /jk
SoulEkko@reddit
Most humble Clujean. 😂
dcdemirarslan@reddit
What if the 2nd biggest city is the capital?
abandonedtulpa@reddit (OP)
Well Turkey is kind of an exception here, other Balkan countries don’t have that situation.
thatMrGecko@reddit
capital not being the biggest city is an exception everywhere. not many countries belong to that group.
neilabz@reddit
It’s a good thing in my opinion. When all the money and power is concentrated in one city it’s too much
jaunmilijej@reddit
All the money and (economic) power is still concentrated in Istanbul, it’s just not the capital
neilabz@reddit
I’m from Scotland and I know that’s not an independent country (everything in the UK is around London) but we are kind of rare in Scotland where our capital is not the largest city, but the second. In terms of economic power it’s split between the two. Both kind of balance each other.
Athalos124@reddit
Thessaloniki is my limit for the amount of people a city holds and I can stand with.So Athens seems like hell to me.
P-l-Staker@reddit
Nah, the amount of people has nothing to do with whether a city is insufferable or not. It's all about good and effective governance.
Of which Athens has none... 😅
Wotir_Shep@reddit
The 2nd biggest city in Romania is typically considered to be Cluj Napoca, but counting in all villages from which people commute into the city then it's very close to Iasi, both regional capitals for Transylvania and Moldova respectively.
They're pretty similar in terms of quality of life, but can feel way more isolated in terms of infrastructure and distance to other cities compared to Bucharest, which has pretty good highway and rail connections to the surrounding region compared to the rest of Romania. Iasi doesn't even have any highways, while Bucharest has 3 and a half.
The main difference is population though, the Bucharest metro area has around 2.5 million people (accounting for people from Ploiesti, Giurgiu, surrounding towns etc.. that commute into it) while both Iasi and Cluj are closer to half a million so of course it feels way more crowded in the capital.
Outside the city center (which both Cluj and Iasi have integrated way better into the rest of the city while Bucharest only has Piata Unirii which is only a transit stop) they are pretty similar, except the fact that Bucharest is way flatter compared to both Iasi and Cluj.
Ayvee12@reddit
It’s better in every way.
SolutionTime5811@reddit
Far away on development.. And this us bed
wifesboobs42@reddit
It definitely is more relaxed. One might even say it's айляк.
v-s-g@reddit