Is Dara of Jasenovac really propaganda like many Croatian media’s claimed? What is your opinion of the film?
Posted by SlavKeeper@reddit | AskBalkans | View on Reddit | 405 comments
I saw it and enjoyed it fairly there were flaws regarding the way it was shot and some of the story parts were way too extended but I read a lot of claims that it’s propaganda and saying how it only portrays the Serbs even if the Serbs were the main victims in that camp but I’d like to know peoples opinion on here and if they do have sources for the atrocities that happened there.
Successful_Egg_5233@reddit
I believe genocides should be acknowledged, but I don't believe they should be used against specific nation that (insert name) group was part of. Using genocides as propaganda is downright disturbing and disgusting as hell to me, and I am saying this as a Serb.
Sweet-Bed2076@reddit
All movies are propaganda, it is a movie after all, not historical reasearch done by multiple sides to prove it reliability
I can t watch those movies because, it is pointless, you are mad at something that happened 70y ago, done by people who are all dead,
Nothing will be changed, as education is much more important then a movie, if someone denies that genocide against serb you won t change his mind with movie, you won t even with facts
so it is pointless
New_Accident_4909@reddit
Honestly as a Serb, I did nkt watch it as I'm tired of feeling mad at other nations.
I know what happened in WWII, i just don't want those emotions.
CmdrJemison@reddit
Thanks. As a croat I am also tired of all this.
sashagaborekte@reddit
Isn’t that what the balkans are all about?
CmdrJemison@reddit
No. But foreigners like to see it that way.
Vanpet1993@reddit
I love how wholesome this conversation you guys have here is. Respect brother!
ruairi1983@reddit
3 comments, 3 different flavours of racism. These guys are impressive!
Vanpet1993@reddit
Idk what you are referring to, but I didn't see any racism... And how do you see racism in-between two countries of the same skin color and historical heritage?
Usual-Package7120@reddit
I'd the region actually had rational and mature leadership, perhaps the nations could actually approach these things differently and heal so we can all actually move on. But no such luck, the drama continues.
TheChampionOfToilets@reddit
Of course there are benefits! Plenky and Aca are drinking rakija and making bank while we peasants argue about ustaše, partizani and četnici.
hegykc@reddit
"divide et impera"
Historical-Wear-9948@reddit
I'm a Bosnian Serb living in the US and I agree. I feel like there is a fatigue between everyone. Everyone wants to point fingers and never look at themselves in the mirror. Violence is violence at it's core and the acts of some do not define everyone. Its the same shit every day and I just stopped caring.
Melodic-Interest9090@reddit
I think this is an amswer as a Serb. We both listen about other side being Vilains and our nation being Saints while in reality there are good and bad people on both ends
Ur-Best-Friend@reddit
👍
Don't let dumb shit your great-grandparents (or more accurately in most cases, their contemporaries) did, dictate the way you live your life.
CmdrJemison@reddit
No worries 👍🏻
I'm know who I am.
Stormrage44@reddit
👌🏿
DetectiveGrand6568@reddit
Couldn't agree more. They just want us to fight, I refuse it.
TheFall101@reddit
Yet if you choose to pretend emotions aren't normal, and forget, your in for way more trouble down the road
No-Aide7893@reddit
Osim u Srbiji. Tamo su svi zli.
mydoghiskid@reddit
But I do think that‘s one thing not many people talk about. I live in Austria and almost no one knows about NDH, Ustašas and Jasenovac.
Damaged_Goods_75@reddit
And I don't know exactly what Austrians did during WW2, but it surely wasn't nice since they were Germany back then.
mydoghiskid@reddit
Most world knows what Austrians did, though. Almost nobody knows what Croats did. Is my point.
Damaged_Goods_75@reddit
No. Most of the world knows that Hitler was an Austrian and they were annexed, so their crimes are filed under German crimes. World knows about our biggest shame, what the world doesn't know that Pavelić and ustaše were not elected, there were no elections. Germans bring them from exile because the most popular Croatian party at the time, HSS (Hrvatska Seljačka Stranka- Croatian Village Party even though their three leaders were assassinated in Belgrade by Serbs) refused to be part of this quisling game. Many of them ended in Jasenovac too, along with many Croatian resistance members. Only a fool is not ashamed of that part of our history, but many brave men and women fought against it, unlike propaganda that said that we were all bloodthirsty ustaše.
New_Accident_4909@reddit
Its too late to raise awareness now, noone cares. So many genocides happened since that one.
I find it interesting though that people subjected to genocide, commited genocide themselves later like Republika Srpska army or state of Israel.
Zenokh@reddit
"Its too late to raise awareness about Srebrenica , noone cares. So many genocides happened since that one"
New_Accident_4909@reddit
I don't know if that was supposed to hurt me?
Dude I'm a Serb refuge from the civil war xD
mydoghiskid@reddit
How is it too late to raise awarness now when you literally try raising awareness for something else in your last sentence? Also maybe if the awarenss was raised and Yugoslawia worked and acknowledged the history, the 90s would have looked different.
New_Accident_4909@reddit
Peoples attention span is so low and overloaded that 90% won't care.
Right now bunch of people are dying in middle east, Ukraine, Sudan few years back in Ethiopia and Yemen as well.
Shit keeps happening at such pace that you just end up feeling numb.
mydoghiskid@reddit
To that I agree, I also think people have very exclusive empathy, at least in Austria and Germany sooooooo many care about Palestine to the point they are even just spewing blatant anti-semitism, nobody gives one single fuck about Sudan or Iranian people being slaughtered. Whole world is depressing honestly.
Ok-Bench9589@reddit
Ti znaš šta se dogodilo u WW2? Znaš li ijednog srbina iz tvoje obitelji da je stradao tamo?
technotronica@reddit
You shouldn't be mad at Croatia as a nation. Croats were killed there as well. The most victims were Serbs. They were subjected to literal genocide there along with Jews and Rroma. Other people were annihilated there because of their political views, regardless of their ethnicity. I feel absolute fury and am disgusted at what happened there. These fascist pigs and Hitler's ass licking puppets killed our own people there, that is how I see it and feel it. I am Bosniak.
New_Accident_4909@reddit
Its hard because of a solid chunk off people deny it or even celebrate it. As a Bosniak I'm sure you understand.
technotronica@reddit
It was a genocide commited against Serbs there, and other people that were annihilated because of their political views, regardless of their ethnicity. I feel absolute fury and am disgusted at what happened there. These fascist pigs and Hitler's ass licking puppets killed our own people there. I am Bosniak.
Withering_to_Death@reddit
it's important young people know what happened and unequivocally condemn it! However pushing the guilt on them (for the sins of their forefathers) is wrong. Imo it creates a "rejection" of the facts, that gets then exploited by the ultranationalists deniers of those atrocities.
Educational_Time2840@reddit
So I generally tend to view these movies with as much benefit of the doubt as possible, as they represent very real and very sensitive topics.
About the movie’s cinematography:
This is just my opinion of it as a movie.
The positive: They don’t downplay the violence of Jasenovac. I think the historicity was done well.
The ok: The baby saving part was pretty ok. But not as impactful.
Story is not that good. Protagonist feels less like a character and more as…there. Like even during her escape plan, she just doesn’t have much agency.
The negative: No Roma, Jews, Bosniak, Croats or other ethnicities/political prisoners that were interned, besides Serbs. And I know a Jewish character does appear but at the very very end.
Characters are pretty one dimensional. Besides Dara, they all just exist to do one thing and thats it. This comes up in the next points.
Generally nothing about the Ustase. Like I get it, they were evil. We became aware of this as early as the train scene. But why do they do it? Like villain motivations are key to the narrative. I came out thinking the Ustasi might as well be vampires by the end of this, since nothing truly explains why they’re bloodthirsty.
The violence of the movie, however accurate, is the main narrative device for the villains. But here’s the thing, it stops being a shocking turn of events and is just a norm in the movie. By this point it becomes a snuff piece a la Passion of the Christ or a Serbian film. A violent act happens, the characters react to the violence but we and the characters don’t really get to process it. The violence is persistent and loses its impact since we move on from one to the other. Like I said, characters in this film feel wooden and it’s probably because of this factor.
Unlike in other war movies like Schindler’s List where we actually get to have moments where we get to feel the impact afterwards. Like the girl on the red coat. We meet the villain, Goeth, and realize how deranged the Nazis are. The story truly shows the horror of the war with minimal violence, yet bigger impact. You get out of it with a genuine understanding of the violence, victims and perpetrators. Somethings this movie failed by a long shot.
——————————————————————————-
Is this movie propaganda?
Yes. It absolutely is.
As I explained in the cinematography portion. It doesn’t let the audience do its due diligence and understand the conflict in a deep and profound way and just shows visceral war violence perpetrated by the bad guys towards a specific group. There is no attempt to show to give us an understanding of Jasenovac or why the Ustase were derranged and evil. It just communicates to the audience that “the Ustasi are evil and look at what they did to innocent Serbs.” This move enforces an inevitable “us vs them mentality” that just doesn’t help anyone.
Not saying that the impact of Jasenovac on Serbs should be lessened, far from it. But rather understand this horror and contextualize it. Other films have done so better than this one. It’s a introspection on how the audience’s beliefs should be challenged. In this case both Serbian and Croatian ones, as this movie could have challenged the beliefs of both sides in a meaningful way. For Croats it could have been a good way for them to understand the right-wing elements of their society. For Serbs a good way to understand how other people view them similar to the Ustase.
FloppyDiskDrives@reddit
The only people calling this 'propaganda' are the ones who want to keep it swept under the rug. Many Croats want to park this part of history and tell Serbs to just get over it because it happened so long ago. Yet somehow, what happened in Vukovar is still treated as paramount. The hypocrisy speaks for itself.
tompa_zg@reddit
What happened in Vukovar?
Mindless_Show6593@reddit
It’s a croatian town that was demolished by serbs in the 90s. A lot of war crimes were commited, a lot of civilians died.
Mindless_Show6593@reddit
Smisno kako srbi udaraju downvote, a traze neku istinu oko jasenovca. Istina vam je bitna samo kada ide vama u prilog ocito hahaha
FloppyDiskDrives@reddit
Ljudi ne downvoteuju istinu, nego tvoj patetični pokušaj revizionizma i skretanja teme. Istina o Jasenovcu je globalno dokumentovana, a to što ti dolaziš ovde da se smeješ i glumiš žrtvu samo dokazuje moju poentu. Plači zbog minusa negde drugde.
Mindless_Show6593@reddit
Legendo, dowvotean mi je bio komentar o vukovaru. Ja ne negiram zlocine u jasenovcu. Clanovi moje obitelji su ubijeni od strane ustasa (iako su bili hrvati). Sramotis se.
FloppyDiskDrives@reddit
Druže, pročitaj ti moje komentare ponovo. Lepo piše da se to odnosi na one koji se lože na nacionalizam i ustaše, a ne na sve Hrvate. Ako se ne pronalaziš u tome, šta se onda uopšte pecaš i glumiš advokata? Ne brukam se ja ni najmanje.
Pale-Specific-5565@reddit
Uz dužno poštovanje, film "Dara iz Jasenovca" je globalno ismijan i proglašen propagandom, jer to i jest.
Same-Vermicelli8093@reddit
Care, ima jedna rečenica koju sam nedavno pročitao. Ide ovako -Srbin ako ima otvorena usta , a ne jede , znači da laže.
FloppyDiskDrives@reddit
Evo ja sam Srbin. I kažem da ti nisi retard.
tompa_zg@reddit
I'd like him to answer, thank you.
Zazubica@reddit
Sa tolikom mrznjom prema Srbima, ja ne znam sta ocekujes ti da ti neko odgovara? Ti imas svoju neku istinu i to je ok, ali ako ti necije drugo misljenje ne odgovara, to ne znaci da nije istina. Tesko je sagledati situaciju realno, objektivno, kada smo svi na jedan ili drugi nacin upetljani u sve sto se desava. I da, da je bilo srece pa da nikada nismo imali zajednicku drzavu, vi vase, mi nase, bosanci svoje ali jbg. Ne ponovilo se, ni zajednicka drzava, a ni ratovi.
b0007@reddit
yeah....right
tompa_zg@reddit
Your sarcasm is woefully misplaced.
b0007@reddit
waiting for him to reply something normal, waiting for Godot
anonumousJx@reddit
The town was destroyed and houndreds were killed
How is that in the same stratosphere as Jasenovac?
b0007@reddit
stop the fck justifying by numbers
anonumousJx@reddit
I'm not justifying anything, I'm saying the commenter makes a good point.
Jasenovac (just one camp) had about 150.000 victims alone (most commonly cited figure by historians) which were killed like animals, tortured beyond imagination
Vukovar's victims are a rounding error compared to the ones in Jasenovac, most, if not all, died quickly in battle, as collateral, or were killed with a gun later. This does not justify anything that happened in Vukovar, but you can't blame me or my country in 2026 for that and then deny collective blame for Jasenovac.
Mindless_Show6593@reddit
You pulled that number out of your ass. There is about 80.000 confirmed victims (it’s estimated that around 90.000 peoped died there).
anonumousJx@reddit
Over 80.000 named victims by the JUSP
The Museum of genocide victims in Belgrade crosses the 90.000 mark recently and is still going
This serves as the baseline, the bare minimum and can only go up from here. 150.000 is the average of international historians I saw.
Mindless_Show6593@reddit
Source lmao. Its literally around 80.000-90.000
anonumousJx@reddit
So you made it up, alright
Mindless_Show6593@reddit
Yea you made it up. 80.000 confirmed victims, estimates says that it’s between 80k and 90k. That 150.000 is a number you pulled out of your ass.
Duran_naruD@reddit
And those are the numbers made by a Croat Jew named Goldstein. Nobody has a proof of those numbers. You have a Serb called Igor Vukic and he destroyed Goldstein on these lies, and he even came as a guest on Serb TV to do the same to radical Serbs
https://youtu.be/BxFLHAN_gOo?is=lILRaAB7Lpu8RN9V
https://youtu.be/bsbeAjlKDbQ?is=PjgAtd3UXRBkOGaz
ShoddyPeace9845@reddit
Vukovar happened in our lifetime, it is still in living memory, those things happened when I was a small kid, my parents lived it. Jasenovac is historical, my grandparents time, they are now long dead. That doesn't negate what happened, but the 90s were recent, it was the turn of the century, the end of history, modern times, we never thought this could happen. And it wasn't just Vukovar, it was the symbol, but there were many sites of horrible massacres and pure ethnic cleansing.
b0007@reddit
Nobody is blaming you ofc. I mean for sure there are some who will/would try. My grandpa was taken from the Vukovar hospital, ofc no guns on those people from hospital..I can't blame you, I can for sure blame politicians who aren't making this transparent.
tompa_zg@reddit
I'd like for FloppyDiskDrives to answer. Thank you.
anonumousJx@reddit
He's going to say the same thing I did and he makes a good point. Jasenovac is treated as something that happened way too long ago, Croats don't deserve collective blame etc. and I agree with the latter, you aren't responsible.
Vukovar is treated as some sort of Stalingrad (lost the battle btw) and the blame is still put on Serbs today, collectively, when Jasenovac alone was by every metric an incomparably worse crime than the sum of all crimes committed by Serb forces in the 90s both numerically and by sheer brutality.
b0007@reddit
because nobody said: "ok, we are sorry, we fucked up, let's move on please" - like NOBODY. And your ret.. president still is: "da se oluja ne ponovi", "da nas ne napadnu" --like wtf...
Corleone0@reddit
Sorry for being attacked and expelled? Sorry for what? We expect the same thing from you. Some common decency and accountability.
b0007@reddit
Sure, I'm sorry civilians suffered.
Corleone0@reddit
Me too.
b0007@reddit
I mean fuck wars, it's civilians every time who suffer..
Vajdugaa@reddit
Well that's a lie.
Boris Tadić, President of Serbia, apologized and went to Vukovar in 2010
How old are you, 12?
b0007@reddit
He did, he probably was trashed by his country fellas. What about Vucic? Constant tension rising
Vajdugaa@reddit
He was trashed by Vucic and Seselj.
So is every new president is obliged to go and apologize?
b0007@reddit
He was treated like when someone crazy is saying things..they should add "we fucked up Vukovar and raped" in Serbian schools
Vajdugaa@reddit
You are moving the goalpost from nobody ever apologized to yes someone actually did but he was despised by seselj and vucic, the ones that instigated the war.
Very interesting
b0007@reddit
I mean if one apologizes and the leaders say "yes, agreed", then fine. But it's not like that. i mean I get what you want, i saw your posts :D
Vajdugaa@reddit
Boris Tadić was the leader (or the president) who apologized for the war crimes committed against croats.
He was not responsible for the comments of his political opponents at the time. Goodbye
anonumousJx@reddit
Vučić is a dictator on his last feet. Yes, he's wrong about Croatia and Albania attacking Serbia (they can't, they have no reason to and they don't want to), yes he pushes nationalist rethoric for domestic political gain.
I'm not sure what a sorry would do from me. I wasn't in Vukovar, I've never killed anyone, I've never supported crimes, nor has anyone in my family. What do I owe you an apology for?
Those responsible for Jasenovac don't owe me apologies either because I'm not accepting it either way lmao. They did what they did and everything they got post war was a minor inconvenience compared to what they did. I'm not expecting apologies from you because you weren't there either and I'm paying you a compliment by assuming you've never supported anyone associated with those monsters either.
b0007@reddit
Of I've never supported these fucks, everyone here "supporting" them would have a tough life living back then, most of them "supporting" that regime would be dead by the hands of the ndh
tompa_zg@reddit
We don't know what he's going to say. As for his point, it's completely stupid. But that's just on par as his usual writings.
anonumousJx@reddit
What's stupid? Which part is he wrong on?
tompa_zg@reddit
Everything he says. Which we could see, had he not cowardly hidden his post history after I called him out on his lies.
anonumousJx@reddit
I'm strictly talking about his comment on this post, I have no idea who that person is.
tompa_zg@reddit
I do.
FloppyDiskDrives@reddit
Playing dumb because your fragile nationalistic ego got bruised isn't the trap you think it is. I'm not taking the bait. The fact that your immediate reflex is to jump in, run interference, and tag team with u/MrImAlwaysrighT1981's whataboutism just to derail the conversation tells everyone exactly what your agenda is. You'll do anything to avoid talking about Jasenovac. Thanks for perfectly demonstrating the exact BS I was talking about.
mozdamalosutra@reddit
hahahahah nece ti mali smrad odgovoriti na to pitanje. Jebem ti sunce dobro da smo ih se rjesili 90ih godina. Bože sačuvaj, bože jebeno sačuvaj samo to mogu reći.
AskBalkans-ModTeam@reddit
Your post/comment was removed for violating Rule 1 of r/AskBalkans "Keep it civil". Depending on the severity of this violation, you may be banned.
If not, try to refrain from using this type of language.
Lively discussion is alright, but personal attacks, insults, hate, chauvinism and/or bigotry towards other users or their input will not be tolerated.
Cheers.
anonumousJx@reddit
Za kurac... Spremni!
mozdamalosutra@reddit
tvoj mama
anonumousJx@reddit
... Je poštena žena za razliku od tvoje
Kaži da je pozdravio Srbin. Mada ne znam koliko joj to sužava
AskBalkans-ModTeam@reddit
Your post/comment was removed for violating Rule 1 of r/AskBalkans "Keep it civil". Depending on the severity of this violation, you may be banned.
If not, try to refrain from using this type of language.
Lively discussion is alright, but personal attacks, insults, hate, chauvinism and/or bigotry towards other users or their input will not be tolerated.
Cheers.
AskBalkans-ModTeam@reddit
Your post/comment was removed for violating Rule 1 of r/AskBalkans "Keep it civil". Depending on the severity of this violation, you may be banned.
If not, try to refrain from using this type of language.
Lively discussion is alright, but personal attacks, insults, hate, chauvinism and/or bigotry towards other users or their input will not be tolerated.
Cheers.
tompa_zg@reddit
Znam da neće. Poznat mi je njegov opus. Zbog mene je i isključio history.
DomagojDoc@reddit
Because Croatian people fixed their own shit. Croatian people rose up and overthrew the puppet regime they didn't elect and after that a leader from Croatia called Josip Broz Tito ordered execution of almost 100k Ustashe and was a president for the next 35 years and he ruled from Belgrade, the capital of Serbia.
These are all 100% pure facts.
FloppyDiskDrives@reddit
Ah yes, the classic 'Croatians rose up' myth. You conveniently left out that the early uprising in the NDH was overwhelmingly Serbs fighting to survive Ustaše slaughter. Trying to co-opt the Partisans to wash your hands of the NDH is pathetic. And claiming the ideology is dead while modern Ustaše larping and revisionism are still massive problems today is purely delusional. You are literally proving my original comment right.
Intrepid-Bill-9789@reddit
Look how many croatians and other died fighting againts the nazis during the ww2. It is proportional to the enthnic structure of those times in these regions. Cut the bullshit about serbs rosing up against the nazis alone.
DomagojDoc@reddit
Yes, and French resistance won WW2, and not United States and Soviet Union, lmao.
Croatians rose up and overthrew the regime, Tito ordered the execution of almost 100k Ustashe and was president of Yugoslavia in Belgrade for 35 years.
Deal with it bro 100% faccctsss :D
FloppyDiskDrives@reddit
Delusion is a hell of a drug.
DomagojDoc@reddit
Tito is one hell of a drug hahahah
FloppyDiskDrives@reddit
MrImAlwaysrighT1981@reddit
It's same, if not worse with Serbs who speaks about 90s and genocide in Bosnia as something happened long ago, we should forget it, we are all to blame, bla, bla, bla...
FloppyDiskDrives@reddit
Using a WWII extermination camp as a stepping stone to scream 'what about me' is pathetic. Go start your own thread if you want to talk about the 90s. The fact that your first instinct is to deflect from Jasenovac just proves you don't give a shit about the victims and only care about making this about yourself. Run along.
MrImAlwaysrighT1981@reddit
When you make a movie to oppose movie about genocide in Srebrenica, it's not about the victims, it's about politics and making your crimes look smaller, or less bad. But, expecting Serbian nationalist to understand anything beyond "Celi svet je protiv Srba" is like expecting Trump to respect protocol in diplomatic engagements.
Professional-Fee-488@reddit
Tell me you're a Bosnian Muslim larping as a turk without telling me so. You're not Turkish, get over it.
FloppyDiskDrives@reddit
Reducing a WWII extermination camp to a movie rivalry just to justify calling it 'propaganda' is exactly the sickness I was talking about in my very first comment. You don't give a shit about the victims; you just hate that they're being mentioned, so you have to make it about yourself. I'm glad my original comment was the perfect filter to weed out the likes of you.
Professional-Fee-488@reddit
I've never heard or read any Serbs saying that, you're literally talking out of your ass mate.
tompa_zg@reddit
He's not, you are. Last year, during the 30th anniversary of the Srebrenica genocide, Šešelj (a convicted war criminal) was signing his latest book in the center of Belgrade.
The books name? There was no genocide in Srebrenica
Stop being a clown.
Professional-Fee-488@reddit
Šešelj is an egomaniacal nationalist piece of shit that has an agenda and needs to be put down, I was talking about regular people you muppet, wasn't that obvious enough? You have hundreds of thousands of everyday people in Croatia cheering Thompson who is on about the same level as šešelj.
tompa_zg@reddit
Of course it wasn't obvious, "you muppet". Because there's throngs of serbian accounts here pushing that same narrative. Besides, a lot of people showed up for his book signing. They are all on the same level as him. Not to mention your elected government.
Professional-Fee-488@reddit
Vučić is on his last legs hopefully, we've been trying to get rid of the psychopath for 10 years now, every single election was rigged, as evident from what happened just a few days ago, so no, they're certainly not our elected government, they're a tumor, but Milanović is actually supported by the people of Croatia, and he's no better than cunt Vučić with regards to drumming up nationalism.
Hour-Promotion-2496@reddit
I can't take anything you say seriously if you really think this is the case
Professional-Fee-488@reddit
Ok, I was exaggerating, nobody is as bad as this fucking psycho that's running our country into the ground. But Milanović with his recent secretary of defense going for alliance between Croatia, Kosovo and Albania is literally just warmongering trying to score additional points with nationalists before the election, I honestly wouldn't be surprised to learn that him and Vučić are in agreement with what narratives to push pre election dates in both Serbia and Croatia.
tompa_zg@reddit
WTF has Milanović have anything to do here? He's not an ustaša, but your president is a četnik. You lost right there.
Professional-Fee-488@reddit
It would be great if he was a chetnik, you do realize they were fighting against both nazi/ustahsa regime and the communists at the same time, ustahsa on the other hand were running concentration camps for Serbian children, the only one in the history of the planet, beheading women, slaughtered children and old people. Are you even being serious right now?
tompa_zg@reddit
He very much is. Why would you think that was great? Are you a četnik as well?
I realize this is a deliberate lie of omission that works on majority of readers here. Unlucky for you, it doesn't work on me since I know četniks were nazi collaborators first and foremost. Oh, and that they fought alongside the ustaše against the Partisans.
Ah yes; the standard serbian narrative once they lose the argument. Get real.
Professional-Fee-488@reddit
Vučić is a chetnik? Hahhaha, dude you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, he's just a criminal kept in power with the support of EU, he doesn't care about people no matter what group they identify as. Also being a chetnik is not even comparable to being ustahsa, it's opposite, what are you on about man?
FloppyDiskDrives@reddit
Nothing screams 'I have the moral high ground' quite like rushing in to defend a textbook whataboutism just so you don't have to talk about Croat crimes. I appreciate you stopping by just to validate everything I said in my original comment.
tompa_zg@reddit
I see you're staying true to form with yet another clown comment. Thank you.
punished_begovat@reddit
A very popular narrative, alongside: "heey, everyone's to blame", "the genocide was actually a battle, there were no civilians", "the genocide was actually a series of isolated military actions", "enough about xy, it's in the past"
Ok_Juggernaut_3239@reddit
people who suffered in vukovar are still alive and ur grandparents and fathers that committed those crimes are still living and breathing- u never met anyone that suffered in the ww2 under the ndh and u never will - these emotions present in ur reply just shows how easily people are swayed by the politics and those who benefit on ur anger (vucic) - what happened was awful but it literally has no impact on you right now and it never will while women who were raped, lost their brothers, husbands and sons are still living and breathing- and u ask urself “why is vukovar still treated as a paramount. The hypocrisy speaks for itself. “ - i actually agree w the last sentence u wrote but for a different reason - hope my reply helps u understand why what u wrote is incredibly insulting and harmful and that u realise that ure nothing but a propaganda tool which keeps those who bring actual harm to your people in positions of power
SignificantTailor760@reddit
Because some of the "people" who slaughtered civlians in Vukovar still walk free to this day maybe? Because thousands still remember these days and will never forget what they lived trough? And that applies to both sides.
FloppyDiskDrives@reddit
You completely missed the point. No one is saying Vukovar shouldn't be remembered. The hypocrisy is that the exact same people who demand eternal remembrance for the 90s are the ones calling a movie about a WWII death camp 'propaganda' and actively trying to minimize it. Time passing doesn't downgrade a genocide, and the fact that you're using Vukovar as an excuse to validate sweeping Jasenovac under the rug is exactly what I was talking about.
LenaLena93@reddit
I don’t have a problem with Croatians remembering and morning their victims. They should. I just don’t understand how we joined yet another country with them, soon after the World War II, like were we ok??
I know the political situation and the winning side contributed to the new country, but it’s still feels unfathomable to me for this time distance.
tompa_zg@reddit
It's baffling to me how Croats joined the same country with Serbs for the third time in a row. Like, what the hell were they expecting would happen?
LenaLena93@reddit
The first and second one were technically the same, but renamed.
tompa_zg@reddit
And the third eventually started becoming like the first two. It's like my people never learned the lesson, and were going by "third time's the charm" vibes.
LenaLena93@reddit
There is no third country lol, unless we eventually unite, yet again.
Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes was the same country as Kingdom of Yugoslavia, just renamed.
Weird-Soft2091@reddit
As an Vietnamese who loves learning history and got problems with some Ultranationalists in the internet[as you can see in this Image], I assure you that I had to see MORE of those "historic films" like that. We're all living in the cemetery of the world! may the cursed history is not with us!
Pleasant_Hair_6527@reddit
As a Serb, i can claim it is 100% right wing propaganda. The movie is bullshit the story's only purpose is to make you hate Croats
hrvatrska-trava@reddit
Croatia has a problem with the downplaying of NDH era crimes. I haven’t personally seen the movie, but the horrible crimes against Serbs, Roma, and anti-fascist Croats in Jasenovac were a very real thing.
Croatian media is center-right at best and veterans of the breakup of Yugoslavia tend to lean further in that direction. These people, of whom make up a large portion of Croatian ultranationalists, experienced a revival during the breakup of Yugoslavia and they had very comfortably adopted imagery and anti-Serb messaging from the NDH era.
Even today, Thompson fans will chant “ZDS” while wearing Ustasha imagery. Fascist sympathies exist in all of our countries but Croatia has some who refuse to acknowledge the actual crimes that were committed by our people less than a century ago.
_Sellena_@reddit
❤
Brbi2kCRO@reddit
Don’t forget about Jakov Sedlar and his right wing biased movie making. Guy even plays Thompson songs on his “movie showcasings”.
And Thompson himself makes things worse by mythologizing human history and creating fascist rhetoric.
I do not get how are people not disgusted singing music about “Maksovi mesari” (about Vjekoslav Luburic, the leader of concentration camps in NDH)
TinyRinmaFruit7133@reddit
check the account. Yep , deffinitly not a serb bot. Nothing fishy. Gotta put a few more cro in the name and a few more flags down there.
MrBathroom@reddit
They are not disgusted because they were told that being a hateful prick is 'nationalism' and 'being a croat'. For fuck sake, people of Split saluted "za dom spremni", which is insane irony. The whole country is sick for Thompson, all he is is a grifter and a war profiteer. Fuck I hate him
Brbi2kCRO@reddit
I mean, there is something people call “status awareness” where people, instead of looking at what is objectively good in societal and systemic terms, have a tendency to look at what earns them group status, and base their whole worldview off that. These people will often proactively when with people judge what gives them more status and what gives them less. In that regard, nationalism is a way to boost relative status, often through opposition to someone else. Why? Well, opposition means you have an enemy group. When you construct that narrative, when you do anything against “enemy group”, discover traitors and chant edgy things, your relative status goes up, cause you prove you aren’t “weakling who is scared to speak up”. It is all insane.
TinyRinmaFruit7133@reddit
check the account. Yep , deffinitly not a serb bot. Nothing fishy.
falcone1234@reddit
There's a monument and a museum at Jasenovac. Formally, nothing is downplayed
MasterVule@reddit
Formally no, but open topic on FB about Jasenovac and you will get 50 idiots calling you udbo-četnik or some equivalent
falcone1234@reddit
Yes it's social media
trisul-108@reddit
Exactly, most particularly when someone tries to break off a part of their territory ... and then produces movies about historic crimes and injustices to justify it.
Fraan3D@reddit
On all of the concerts i've been lately there are none Ustasha imagery lol. HOS flags yes, but they shouldnt be a problem. Even multiple times where someone raised their arm to do roman salut, Thompson gave nod to don't do that.
Warcrimes have been commited in WW2 yes, that is a fact. But i wish Serbs acknowledge that they are the one that did the attacks on our land.
Yes mainly ultras sing ustasha songs, but dont forget that i've seen multiple weedings close to Vinkovci where they played "Mars na Drinu", in November they tend to do things to provoke people and dont forget people going to Knin, trying to steal the flag etc. We never did any of that in Serbia.
Constant attacks on Croatian people in Vukovar..
MethWhizz@reddit
We found one guys. Comparing Marš na Drinu to ustaša songs is a new level of embarrassing, even for you nazi apologists.
Fraan3D@reddit
What song was played while attacking Croatia?
MethWhizz@reddit
Wasn't even alive bro, i don't know. It is a WW1 song, about counteroffensive towards mountain of Cer. The enemy is Austro Hungarians. Tho, i seem to recall some other nations fought it that army, maybe you would know more about it?
In any case, comparing Vukovar to NDH crimes is beyond delusional. Going by numbers, pure brutality, whatever you want, it's a silly argument and there is no way a normal person can use it in any way.
Fraan3D@reddit
i think some Serbs need to learn history. I acknowledge war crimes from Ustase in WW2, but most of you never say anything regarding yours.
Its always Oluja, Jasenovac etc. i don't have any problem with Serbs, with those Serbs that provoke i do.
I played football match in Sunday league ffs where they came with Četnik memorabilia, i never experienced that with our people.
Why those serbs try to steal croatian flag in Knin? Why they play Četnik songs "Hej slobo donesi salate" etc in November month of rememberance? Marš na Drinu on weedings?
I never heard Croatian people coming to Serbia and doing those things, that is the problem my man. War is over, but Serbs still tend to provoke across the regions where war was hard on us. I've had people close to me experience horrific things, being held hostage, raping, killing, throwing bodies of close people to pigs to eat. And still i say lets not go back, although they did attack us and all lets forget about it.
And we still experience what i've said above, after all this years.
Edyeet77@reddit
Chetnik memorabilia at a Sunday league match?? Where do you live? Australia?
Fraan3D@reddit
it happend in Slavonija
Edyeet77@reddit
whatt, i'm also from Slavonia so i'm really curious, idk how much you can reveal about where this happened and where the team was from but wow
theDivic@reddit
Then we have to ban Zdravko Čolić and every artist born before the 90s because their music was also played while “attacking Croatia”
Fraan3D@reddit
Well Marš na Drinu become anthem of the Yugoslavian forces in 1992, it was in promos on National television at the time. And it was blasted through Vukovar, Brena and many authors sang for Yugoslavian Army yes, but its bit different, intention is different.
Don't act like we dont know what Marš na Drinu represents for both countries.
And dont say "attacking Croatia" under punctation marks, beacuse its true you did attack Croatia beacuse we wanted to be independent, and you guys wanted to make Velika Srbija.
FloppyDiskDrives@reddit
I really appreciate this levelheaded take. The amount of deflection and 'whataboutism' I got for simply stating that some people want to park this period of history and ignore it was insane. It takes a lot of integrity to openly call out the revisionism and Ustaše larping in your own backyard. Respect.
davzeg5@reddit
Prvo, nitko normalan u Hrvatskoj ne negira zločine u Jasenovcu niti ono što se događalo u vrijeme NDH. To su povijesne činjenice i zločini koji su djelomice osuđeni, ali pričati kao da je to jedina strana priče i ignorirati što su radili komunisti nakon rata je maloreći idiotizam. Zločini koje su počinile partizanske i komunističke vlasti, poput Bleiburga i Križnog puta, također su stvarni i dokumentirani. Pokušaj da se to prešuti ili relativizira je licemjeran jer postoje mnogi dokazi i stratišta, što po Hrvatskoj, što po Sloveniji gdje su pronađeni HRVATI.
Hrvatska nema problem s “downplayingom” NDH zločina koliko ima problem s dvostrukim standardima — gdje se jedni zločini stalno naglašavaju, a drugi guraju pod tepih.
Isto tako, generalizirati cijeli narod zbog pojedinaca koji viču “ZDS” ili nose ekstremnu ikonografiju je jednostavno netočno. Takvi postoje svugdje, ali ne predstavljaju većinu.
Ako već pričamo o suočavanju s prošlošću, onda treba biti iskren i govoriti o svemu — i o ustaškim zločinima i o komunističkima. Sve drugo je selektivna povijest.
xXCool_GuyXx@reddit
Bro had to use chatgpt to justify his ass opinion lol. Use your brain next time big dog.
Tasmanijski_panter@reddit
Stavljanje u istu ravan Jasenovca i Blajburga je odvratna relativizacija ustaški zločina. Upravo potvrdjujes sta je lik rekao.
Na temi Jasenovca se raspričao o komunističkim zločinima i kaze ne postoji "downplaying"
Avtomati1k@reddit
u could have just stopped at 'i havent seen the movie', as nothing else u said has anything to do with what was asked
SafeCoconut573@reddit
and you couldve not left your comment to show each and every one of us how media illiterate you are because OPs comment is a perfect answer to what was asked for
do you have finished high school mate? even if you do i kinda doubt it still, you were prolly being given gifted grades so teachers get rid of you asap
Milorad-Milosevic807@reddit
Ne treba da plačemo zbog Jasenovca ko neke pizde nego treba da spremamo osvetu
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Revenge? I mean most of the Ustasa were assassinated or are dying in a hospital with some sort of advanced stage mental illness or already dead and let’s not forget between 30-100k were killed in the Bleiburg Repartition so I doubt there’s much left alive except some fanatics
Poglavnik_Majmuna01@reddit
Something can be both propaganda and true at the same time.
If the Croatian government funded the creation of a movie depicting the ethnic cleansing of Croats in Slavonia, whilst it may be based on real events the intent behind the movie is absolutely of a political nature.
canastataa@reddit
The best propaganda is the one that spells only a fraction of the truth like : They did this horrible thing to "us". Its never the full context of how and why it got there, what made them take that step.
So it's one piece of the puzzle that aims to evoke great emotions, that then can force the next monstrosity. Its a vicious cycle.
QuietWaterBreaksRock@reddit
That can be put through that lens, until you come to the part where any side kills children
There is no ifs, ands or buts, killing children has absolutely no moral, ethical or any other backing which would make it ok.
"Oh, but they attacked our people so we killed in the retaliation, so it's propaganda!!!!", no, just no. Adults can do to each other whatever they want, the moment you kill children willingly (targeting civilian establishments also counts, you don't need to know if children are there, you attacked somewhere where kids can easily find themselves), it labels you as an evil doer, end of story.
So, no, I can't label the movie OP mentioned as propaganda, because it depicts very real events through a lens of a kid. The fact that historical heirs to those who killed kids in such a manner label it as propaganda should tell you enough, especially due to the fact that those same people allow neo-nazis to hold their events in the open in the capital of their country.
wanabevagabond@reddit
But everyone kills children. Every army ever on the face of the earth killed children. If not directly then what do you do to a child whose parents and uncles die in war? Up until 50-100 years ago that child most likely would not have reached adulthood. Besides 18 years old boys going to war are children, maybe not legally, but they just boys really.
markop996@reddit
You've described the movie perfectly. 0 artistic value, simply filled with horrific content. Doesn't mean these things didn't happen, or that we should overlook/forget. Just a horrific simplification of complex historical events, made to serve someone's agenda at the time (also directed by someone famously close to our ruling party).
Adept-One-4632@reddit
I believe we shouldnt gloss over horrific events because they are "anti-[insert ethnic group]". This is just ignorance at worst.
It is actually not a shame to recognise that your people have done terrible things to others because that is must how humans work.
Yet at the same time we shouldn't blame an entire group for something that the majority had no part to play in or were not supportive of.
The only mature thing one can make is to accept that the crime in question did happen and make sure it never happens again. If not then there is a good chance that it will repeat.
So with all that said: I don't believe this movie should be considered a propaganda since from what i have seen, it doesn't show any form of serb nationalism. There is actually a scene where a croat woman is saving a serbian baby, so it is a clear showcase from this movie that not all croats were ustasha supporters. Though from what i gathered, this movie isn't quite historically accurate, but frankly spaling i am not that surprised.
Markus-Periksson@reddit
But that's just the thing, I'm a Croat and I do not recognize ustaše as my people. They were and in some circles even today the scum of the earth. I loathe them with every inch of my body and I reject the notion that they are my people. I recognize the crimes they did to Serbs, Jews and Roma.
But many times because of some geopolitics, propaganda and verbiage I can see that Serbian tendency is to equate ustaše and the Croatian people. We were not only ustaše, we were partizan, we were freedom fighters also and we toppled the ustaše regime at the end.
Corleone0@reddit
Oh please, give me a break. Partizans and freedom fighters my ass.
Markus-Periksson@reddit
I don't know what is your point.
I've never wrote that all Partizans were freedom fighters but the vast majority were and if you don't believe that then sinko you are wrong. Winners write history and both of our countries expelled collaborations in some way or the other. There were many victims too from it, but that is sadly just the nature of retaliation and those times.
Corleone0@reddit
You missed my point. Partizans were the freedom fighters but they were rarely Croats.
markojovanov@reddit
Otkud ti to? Hrvatska vlada je stala na stranu Osovina, ne ceo htvatski narod. Srpska vlada se protivila tome pa je onda kao pokorena služila Osovini, nije ceo srpski narod služio Osovini. Ljudi danas gledaju samo šta su oni prokletnici od suseda iz prošlosti radili, niko ne gleda šta su oni divni ljudi od suseda u prošlosti radili. A ti divni su pobedili u ratu. Oni prokleti su se jebiga izvukli, da nisu ne bi onako prošli kako jesmo.
Orqee@reddit
You sure about that!?, I'm of the generation that I still remember 70s and 80s and preaty much anyone I know was in Partizans.
Markus-Periksson@reddit
that’s cute. and entirely untrue.
Typical-Extension279@reddit
Ista stvar je sa ustašama . Većina se borila za Hrvatsku a manjina je pravila zločine .
ShoddyPeace9845@reddit
Ne bih rekao, za kakvu su se hrvatsku borili? Za etnicki cistu bez srba i zidova, za zlocinacku kvislinsku tvorevinu koja je bila priljepak silama osovine i imala rasne zakone. To su neki nacionalisticki mokri snovi, gdje je drzava i hijerarhija bitnija od ljudi i pravde.
BadBasik@reddit
Vidi druže, lako je sad to govoriti iz ove perspektive, realnost je tada bila sa su svi bili nacionalisti i rasisti.
Crnci u Americi tek dobili jednaka prava 20 godina nakon II svjetskog, žene ih nisu imale skoro nigdje u to doba, svi su mrzili Jevreje, niko nije htio da ih prmi kad ih je Njemačka htjela da protjera, zato su ih na kraju i poubijali, Amerika je imala zakon o imigraciji koji je samo postojao da spriječi ljude sa Balkana da se naseljavaju... Ideja jednakosti ljudi je tada bila nešto novo i neviđeno, a ne norma.
A i dan danas je više na papiru, pogledaj samo rastući nacionalizam u svijetu, svijest većine ljudi ne ide u korak sa idejama i idealima, jaaaako dugo treba za promjene, a one se neće desiti ako zaboravimo šta se desilo, šta je dovelo do toga, ali i ako stalno krivimo ljude koji, iako potomci, nisu imali veze sa tim.
ShoddyPeace9845@reddit
> Ideja jednakosti ljudi je tada bila nešto novo i neviđeno, a ne norma.
Istina, gledajuci unazad, partiazni su bili previse progresivni, i u pozitivnom i u negativnom smislu, krvavo su se obracunavali sa neistomisljenicima i bili jako anti-religijski nastrojeni. Iako su bili narodni pokret, veliki dio drustva ih samo na racun toga nije prihvatio kao svoje.
BadBasik@reddit
Trebali su uzeti za primjer tretman Njemaca nakon prvog svjetskog rata. Cijeli svijet ih je blokirao i kaznio, iako, realno, bili su jednako krivi kao i Englezi.
I onda dobiju 5 puta goru varijantu samo 25 godina kasnije!
Ne može se dobro nešto na silu uraditi, to vrijedi i kad majstoraš kod kuće, a kamoli sa ljudima. Za sve dobro u životu treba vremena i truda, a za sjebati je dovoljno trenutak nepažnje. Zato se ljudi i odluče na loše solucije, uvijek se odmah vide rezultati...
Adept-One-4632@reddit
Exactly. That was also my point in the next sentence. You shouldn't put the blame on the majority of people who did not support the crimes nor had any part in it.
Street-Bluebird-5233@reddit
It was filmed for the sake of being filmed. I have seen Western student projects with a higher budget and better acting. I'm saying this as a Serb. This movie didn't portray shit. It's badly filmed, a lot of details are lacking and it's not worth your time. This movie didn't do any justice to the victims
Quick-Difficulty3121@reddit
I mean Serbs were the main victims (by numbers) not the only victims
LibrarianOk7983@reddit
A lot worse things happened in Jasenovac than that movie shows, I've visited and attended a lot of seminars regarding the Jasenovac and other landmarks and that movie only touches the tip of the iceberg what happened there
snuff31@reddit
It was been even worst...Wermaht soldier and officer was been shoked and they write a lot notes to commands trying to stops that ...Same like Italian occupation forces, and Italians provide reconstruction of interests zones, more then a half NDH ( Independent state of Croatia) was get under their control, ( croatian forces are not allowed to enter in that zone) ..Germany from there side was prohibited any use of Ustasha ( black legion) without special authority of German commandant...
Apprehensive-Golf371@reddit
serb here, yes its turbo propaganda and a bad movie overall, i dnk who even consumes this slop
Distinct-Lecture7481@reddit
Djeci gurali zice kroz usi i od njih pravili sapun da bi neko napisao "slop" na redditu...
Apprehensive-Golf371@reddit
nije pravljen sapun od ljudi nigde, cak ni u aushwitzu ili jasenovcu, nema niti jedan podatak koji to dokazuje, to je propaganda kojom su plasili ljude, na koju cak i kerovi kao sto si ti padaju 80 godina kasnije
Distinct-Lecture7481@reddit
ako ne znas razliku izmedju ausvica i jasenovca onda nema sta da se prica sa tobom...
Apprehensive-Golf371@reddit
imas 80 iq i bas se vidi
Distinct-Lecture7481@reddit
Radije cu biti nepokretan nego napisati komentar kao ti...
TheRealOne9060@reddit
No, Jasenovac was one of the most deadliest concentration camps during WW2, we should never forget all the tragedies and the lives lost there but we should put nationalism aside and unite as brothers towards a better world, forgive but never forget!
Romeo_y_Cohiba@reddit
Two croatian presidents were caught on record downplaying and saying anything ‘unusual’ happened in Jasenovac. First one was Franjo Tuđman, the second one was Stipe Mesić. Both were elected 2 times each for the position by direct vote which means this is a mainstream opinion of Croatians. I wouldn’t consider opinion of croatian media relevant for this subject. I didn’t like the movie though, worth watching once but not more.
Spirta@reddit
Honestly, when I read in American media how the movie scenes were horrific, I was expecting something. Then I saw the movie was very watered down. Now, I saw some people say how we shouldn't blame the entire ethnic group for the acts of their members. The movie also showed that. Not all Croatians were ustashe, the best examples were women from red cross that managed to get a lot of children our of camps.
superkikiriki@reddit
OkArmy8295@reddit
That movie is very mild in depicting what has happened. It is all true, so no reason to show it. From the artistic side, nit so good movie, could have been waaay better.
Serdar_Janko@reddit
I don't know why would any sane person watch this shit. It is sponsored by SNS and government to make us not forget that we should be hating on each other. Movie for hillbillies who still talk about war. So even though I didn't watch it I can only imagine the amount of propaganda in it.
Sorry_Can_4004@reddit
Kako ste gadni vi sti sve svoje mrzite, nije vucic cela srbija i njrna istorija. Propaganda da bi mrzeli komsije a, a que vadis aida nije propaganda jos nominovano za oskara
Serdar_Janko@reddit
Pa ko ti je rekao da bih gledao kvo vadis, isto nacionalisticko sranje kao i ova dara iz jasenovca
SnooChickens9564@reddit
We should not hate each other, we are neighbors and all Slavs. But i don't think its good to forget history. Its a fact, and it happend. It did happen to members of my family.Should i forget them too then? And you didn't watch it...but to you, its still propaganda. Maybe it is, things can always have two sides.We should not forget history, cause it makes a part of us, who we are.But we should not let this fuel our anger, and try to work things out together as closest neighbors.
Serdar_Janko@reddit
We are not forgetting history but we don't need to be reminded of that every couple of minutes. To many people are still obsessed with hatred and to them this is fuel and movie makers know this very well.
MasterVule@reddit
The issue is that that history is trying to repeat itself every 10 years. People are worse than goldfish in terms of remembering stuff sometimes
Admirable_You_9573@reddit
Wtf 😂 Vucic didnt made up the story. And please dont spit on Jasenovac victims just because one psyhopath is using it to gain votes. And dont comment movie you havent watched. Even one minut of movie isnt propaganda, and if you ask me it pretty mild comared to what really happened. I know stories from my grandparents, and 24 family member killed. So leave Vucic and SNS out of Serbs and our history, and if you hate the guy, get him, and leave victims and history aline. And movie isnt about hating its about not forgeting, because most of people from serbia that doesnt have connection to bosnia and croatia know noting about it, and they should. Why you dont cal Shindlers list, or boy in stripped pijama propaganda, because its Western movie. Im sick of people like you.
RedditAussie@reddit
Hate is the business model of politicians
vocna-salata@reddit
Well, google for Nada Šakić, for example and everything will be clear for you. I am Serb from Croatia and I firmly say it's not propaganda.
trisul-108@reddit
The propaganda aspect to it is not in the movie, but rather the constant rehashing of history in order to demonise a people. The propaganda is not in the movie, it is in the people who decided to fund it so that other people here can present another people as evil doers or justify the attempt to take over their territory.
Both sides are doing it.
Western_Rock9414@reddit
As a romanian I learn about the croats and serbs that they are the same only the religion separate them, is that true?
ShoddyPeace9845@reddit
Very similar language (more like 2 dialects), but different alphabet, different religion, culturally croats are more aligned with central europe and serbs are more oriented towards russia and eastern cultural region. Croats think of serbs as being more "balkan", whereas croats are more influenced by the west.
Western_Rock9414@reddit
Thanks for your answer. În the 90's before the yugoslavian wars, we where so jealous on how good the lives of yugoslavian peoples was and then the separation wars begin, personally I dont undesrstand why was so much hate between the serbs, croats and bosniacs.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Same language, similar food, pretty much only difference is mainly history for example Croatia was part of Austria Hungaria while Serbia had its own tiny kingdom and Serbia was occupied by the ottomans which changed certain aspects of culture
Western_Rock9414@reddit
Thanks for your answer
Terrible-Science9561@reddit
I dont think it is propaganda. I also did not like the movie as serb. I enjoy cinema and this movie lack of many aspects that make movie beautiful, regardless of genre, but its may selling point is theme, story.
It is important to have that kind of movies since they present period and group of your own people in that period who suffered, while i support that movie existing It would be hypocrite to expect bosnians or corats not to make movies about their own people in difficult times.
Respond7840@reddit
Serbian propaganda. Everytime they go through their victimization phase it means they’re plotting attacks on their neighbors. Same as it ever was.
Distinct-Lecture7481@reddit
Serbia mostly defended through history. Go read some books and watch some documentaries before writing anything here.
pppktolki@reddit
This type of state funded, Balkan movies, no matter how historically accurate they may be, are always used for propaganda purpouses. These movies are designed for one single task -- to instill a strong sense of rage, and hatred towards your neighbours, just so you can push your personal political agenda. It's the very essense of Balkan politics since times immemorial, and it's a shame that people still fall for it.
mydoghiskid@reddit
It‘s not propaganda, I just think Croatia‘s politicians don‘t want to recognize what Croatia did during wwII, like a lot of other nations don‘t want to as well.
Ok-Bench9589@reddit
The current government is in a coalition with Serbs who were part of the rebellion in Croatia, and don't talk nonsense about it being very right-wing.
Ok-Bench9589@reddit
Jasenovac is an unexplored topic. Communism imposed a lot of lies, it is enough to look at the population census and you can see that there are no Serbs missing and Croats missing a lot in that census. So everything remains on those films, when you ask a Serb if anyone was killed in Jasenovac, most of the time no one has ever told me that they were, and they are full of stories about Croatian crimes
Upset_Dare6221@reddit
No...not propaganda za
InterestingTime8696@reddit
As a serb I did not watch movie but I am pretty sure it was even worse in real life than in this movie. This was so terrible thing that even nazziz germans were disgusted how this mass murder camp was operated. It feels great to not be consumed by hatred and I do not hate croatians because of it. I just don't feel comfortable in their country eventho I visited it more than 15 times so far and had close to 0 issues. its usually a few days stay maximum.
I do feel they still hate us and this thompson concert kinda showed it as statistically every 7th or 8th croatian attended it, something like this could never happen in serbia. Its too early to say that majority of serbs overcame hatred, but I know a lot of people who feel the same way like me and I think there is much more croatians who hate us than vice versa. Cheers.
Short-Programmer6444@reddit
Am I propaganda
Handy_Newman@reddit
Yes, next question
Short-Programmer6444@reddit
Do u have a lot of money
Any_Security_8846@reddit
Well Croatia loves their nazis to this day, so why would you think it's propaganda
Zlotvor_Mejdana@reddit
Not so much propaganda, but a lousy movie that can only serve as such.
Salty-Succotash3338@reddit
I live in Croatia and, much like all of my family and friends and any other sane person here, I believe the crimes of the ustaša regime should not be downplayed (in fact, two of my family members were killed in Jasenovac). They were brutal, bloodthirsty monsters that used patriotism as a mask for ethnic cleansing and facism. I want to make it very clear that I don't hate this film for its subject matter nor do I consider it to be a piece of anti-Croat and anti-Catholic propaganda.
The problems with Dara from Jasenovac don't lie within its subject matter, but, rather, within it taking a very interesting subject and handling it with the grace of the hammer used in one of its pivotal scenes. It's cheap and graphic exploitation of one of the biggest war crimes in the history of the Balkans. Its characters are flat and boring, its acting is on the level of a sub-par soap opera nd its script cares more about gore and shock than about telling a compelling story. As far as accuracy goes, even the staff at the Jasenovac memorial museum criticized it for its poor and amateurish handling of the subject matter.
If you want to see this topic handled right, I reccomend checking out the Croatian biopic The Diary of Diana B. (Dnevnik Dijane Budisavljević) which focuses on a real woman who tried to save the captive children from the ustaša regime. It's not nearly as brutal nor exploitative and generally paints a much better picture of the tragedy and works better as a piece of cinema overall.
Defiant_Club5558@reddit
yup it's bullshit and goebels level propaganda. Director is a dickhead.
Constant-Unit5846@reddit
Much worse things happened in Jasenovac and all over NDH than what is shown in the film. 75 members of my grandfather's family were slaughtered, including his wife and 3 small children, parents, siblings, uncles and aunts, cousins. He was the only survivor just because at the time, he was captured by Germans and taken to labor camp somewhere in the Northern Germany. When he came back home (on foot across Europe) he found out that he was left all alone in the world. Few years later, the communists decided that it would be good to exume the bones and put them all together in one grave and build monument. But they only send small tin boxes and people from the village had to the digging and collecting the remains. Since the tens of bodies were stacked tight together, most of them in the middle of the pile weren't even completely decomposed, so they had to ask for bigger caskets. My other grandfather was just 15 years old in 1942 and went to join Partisans with his uncle. Ustashe also raided they village, and when he came back later to check what happened, he found slaughtered bodies in the yard, eaten by the pigs.
NeitherElephant1253@reddit
75 members of your grandfathers family ?? How many members were there in his family?
Constant-Unit5846@reddit
I explained below that this was his extended family, and probably 3 or 4 generations. Also, back then it was normal to have many children, 6-7-8, families were big.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Fuck that’s messed up
Constant-Unit5846@reddit
Yup, that's why these comments from people from Serbia anger me, when they say that these crimes were exaggerated by the Serbs. Serbs in Bosnia suffered a lot. My mother's father is from Kozara region and father's father from the village near Banja Luka.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Both my uncle and grandpa were executed while packing a truck and trying to flee with their elderly neighbor but my dads cousin was killed him and his children and wife in their own home during the beginning of the war
44-47-25_N_20-28-5-E@reddit
Dear, the kids at school today in their books have the information roughly about 45000 kiled, which is maybe 5% of actual number. Also, Tesla being on Croatian coins is truly paradox, given that 90 people with surname Tesla were slaughtered, and Nikola had luck that he went tu US before 20th century, otherwise he woukd be the smartest person on the Sava river bottom.
Sorry to hear that, also sorry for everyone who have some kind of retrograde harted towards things that weren't our cause, or 50+ years before we were born. Im truly happy that today I think people in general belive to each other more and I don't thing anything similar will ever repeat on these lads. Horrendous things to read, but I have to say, I've heard stories from all sides since I have friends everywhere-you truly have a reason to hate/dislike/but dont be that person, be above everything. World was fucked up then, now also, but at least we know what we don't want all over again. Sorry for long response.
Hungry_Rice9987@reddit
Similar story to you but my family except for my great grandfather were lucky as our Bosnian-Serb family lived next to Muslim family. Luckily that one of them were in charge of sending people off to the camps and because we’re neighbours said we were Muslim. My great grandfather is buried in a mass grave near Tromso in Norway. Mad times and I hope history doesn’t repeat itself again.
slavuj00@reddit
Agreed. My father's family was from Slabinja near Jasenovac. Those who weren't killed on Kozara were rounded up and sent to Jasenovac directly. Only 3 of them survived.
Zeda1002@reddit
Source: trust me bro I'm not denying this happened but I would just like to have the name of the village if possible
Admirable_Click2972@reddit
My family was slaughtered in the same manner, the village was kozarska dubica
Zeda1002@reddit
Interesting, thanks
Admirable_Click2972@reddit
Also having huge families was normal then, for instance my grandma had 4 sisters and 3 brothers, a lot of ppl had many many kids because you didn’t know if they will die when babies due to not having proper medical care. So if 8 of them had even 2-3 kids thats esentially more than 20+ itself, i don’t confirm this guy is speaking the truth but I’m explaining that it may be very possible that the family was that size
Zeda1002@reddit
75 is not a reasonable number, we don't live in Africa where such number might be possibld.
Admirable_Click2972@reddit
I just explained it to you😂 We LIVED in not similar but poor conditions, every grandma i know had 8-9-10 brothers and sisters
Constant-Unit5846@reddit
It seems that he is ustaša troll, don't bother to explain him any further. I gave him exact places and dates where and when this massacres happened and he didn't answer to that.
Zeda1002@reddit
How tf am I a ustasha, I could also call you chetniks the same way. I never denied any atrocity commited by ustashe.
Constant-Unit5846@reddit
I wrote that it includes my grandpa's uncles (his father's brothers) and also my grandpa's brothers (some of them had their own families). Back then it was normal to have even 6-10 children and to live all together in village communities.
Dense_Raspberry6607@reddit
U pitanju je istorijska istina, upotrebljena za propagandu.
mihjok@reddit
As a Serb who watched it, yes it is.
Admirable_You_9573@reddit
What part of it is propaganda exacly lol…
mihjok@reddit
They present a problem from almost a century ago as today's main issue, when they are also fascists who would also put us in concentration camps if the occasion arose.
Admirable_You_9573@reddit
That problem is todays issue. For 70 years it was tucked under the carpet, in Yugoslavia you coundt even properly escavate your loved ones, because of brotherhood and unity, i have 24 family members trown into pit, we excavated them in 1990, we coundt even put any memorial or cross there, it was taken by goverment.
And today country that is responsible for these camps, and crimes is trying to distance from it and numbers are lower and lower year by year, on the other hand Jews have all their numbers straight, all war criminals put to justice, and for us, we didnt got any justice and we wont if it doesnt become todays subject, its root to Serbo/Croation relations. Its like having a bad argument with somebody and trying to avoid taking about it.
That is really wide problem that you cant understand if you werent realted to it. So it has nothing to do with Vucic or SNS, only problem is that people that hate Vucic, hate everthing that he does or says, and this has nothing to do with him, its much bigger than him, me or you.
mihjok@reddit
Classic neofascist propaganda. It was part of almost every school trip until the 1990s.
I have also family members that were thrown into pits, and the remains of some of them were run down in the 1990s wars. That doesn't let you call for another revenge. We had them enough.
HDZ, the party that is controling that country and that likes to promote ww2 nazi propaganda, is now Vucic partner from EPP, and his former comrades frim UDBA.
That has been "todays subject" for almost 40 years. In the same time our economy went down so much that we still haven't cought up with 1989's salary (adjusted to inflation). That subject is only for stupid people to move their atention to non existent problems.
Admirable_You_9573@reddit
Who said we cant have good economy and still try to respect our dead ones? Problem isnt with Jasenovac, NDH, or movies like this, problem is with our and any other exYU, government is corrupt and bad, and we did t had a good functional government or state since 1989, and that has 0 connection to this issue. I agree that every side is using nationalism and history for getting peoples attention out of real problems, but that doesn’t make the irrelevant and not important. But to be hones we had governments like this for 30+ years, but rest of the europe have them now, and everthing that was good there is starting to look simmilar to ur country, so i dont think it will start becoming any better soon.
_BREVC_@reddit
The issue isn’t criticizing the ustaše movement, the issue is the consistent belief that ustaše and Croats are two interchangeable terms. Aside from demonizing an entire ethnic group as irredeemable, the movie also goes out of its way to depict the Catholic Church as demonic too, which is a whole other level of Serbian ultranationalist rhetoric.
The same director did a movie about Serbian forces during the war in Croatia in the 90s, equating them with the victims of the ustaše in WWII. Tells you enough about this Serbian state-funded propaganda project.
EternalyTired@reddit
The catholic church in NDH was nothing short of demonic providing full support for the regime including some catholic priests being supervisors and heads of concentration camps. So no, that part is very accurate.
_BREVC_@reddit
One defrocked friar gets extrapolated to “the Catholic clergy” in real time.
But even if all Croats were a literal demon horde, the anti-Catholic paranoia from the current Serbian regime (of which this movie is just one small vector) is still absurd when you factor in that this is a denomination of 1/7 of the world supposedly out to “get” the Serbs.
EternalyTired@reddit
I don't think the movie focuses or cares about catholicism as a denomination, but rather the clear and documented service the catholic clergy provided for the genocidal regime of NDH.
The current regime in my country is stunningly vile, demented and deranged which is why we're trying to get them off of our backs. And even with all the dead voters, election fraud, criminals and hooligans in police uniforms, they can barely reach 50% on local elections in towns up to 5k people. You have no idea how much an ordinary citizen of Serbia hates the current regime.
_BREVC_@reddit
Yes, but the imaginarium of frocked Catholic priests outright running death camps is, again, a thing extrapolated from one nutjob. Which is fine if the tone of the scene sets is as “look at this one nutjob (who was no longer a priest at the time)” but of course a movie that demonizes a whole ethnic group also won’t bother with that distinction.
But onto a wider point; you can’t hate the regime and defend its products. The director behind the movie is employed, bankrolled and promoted by Vučić’s media houses. Do you think this is for some love of the arts, or are his works just here to fit into the far-right paranoia that Vučić survives off of?
tompa_zg@reddit
Not just the belief, but pushing this narrative all over the internet. I've been watching it happen for over 30 years now.
-Sweet_Chaos-@reddit
You had us in the first half.
Jaded-Membership1433@reddit
Its amazing how many English speaking Serbian teenagers exist on reddit who hate their own people.
Thin-Ad8329@reddit
It is badly done propaganda shit and ruined the opportunity to make an epic movie on the subject of genocide in NDH. The main reason to make this movie was to hide Quo vadis Aida from people in Serbia.
xesnoteleks@reddit
On one hand, i think we needed a film about this. On the other, any sensitive topic like this gets overtaken by people who know jack shit about making good movies.
Serbia had a great chance to do something in 2014. for the 100th anniversary of ww1. That could have been a really good movie or something, but there was no incentive for it.
Admirable_You_9573@reddit
King Petar was ok, but Dara is really bad movie, good topic that needs to be taken really good, but Dara is bland and dull, i havent connected with any of characters…
RedditAnonDude@reddit
I am tired of all WW2 stories (except Sisu). There are plenty example of modern day evil everyone ignores. Let’s talk about Africa for a change.
Forwardist2021@reddit
the film is decent but there are aspects of it that come off as too heavy handed. Holocaust films often reflect on dangers of nationalism, murderous racism and genocide didn't feel like the movie put effort into doing that
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Interesting what would you say was too heavy handed?
Forwardist2021@reddit
the violence I guess?
elienzs@reddit
Lmao
Forwardist2021@reddit
no, you're right but it just felt too campy for a serious film
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Hmmm I mean compared to Nazis the Ustase didn’t have gas chambers so it makes sense the killing were more brutal since they were mainly handed weapons and knives rather than guns. Or you mean the fact there’s more violence than story?
Forwardist2021@reddit
more violence then story, yes! Not denying the Ustase did those things
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
I definitely agree if they made it a longer movie like Schindler lost the violence could’ve been easily balanced out to fit in the narrative!
Forwardist2021@reddit
it's a weird movie, it's definitely honest in it's portrayal of Ustase and what they did but it's just how it's presented
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Could’ve been done in a documentary recreation tho
Affectionate_Kiwi719@reddit
Of course it is...
Ok_Juggernaut_3239@reddit
it happend and its a part of history- now people (especially serbian right party) love to balloon the number of actual victims which is disrespectful to actual people who died in awful and plainly horrific ways - some claim more than 800 000 died, while officially number is i believe around a 100 000 while experts believe an actual number is less than 30 000 - and after all is said yes the movie is propagandish (because of the rhetoric pushed by serbian right party) but it can be said that it is somewhat based on true events
cyclopsontrampoline@reddit
It is propaganda because it didn't present many atrocities. Jasenovac was much worse.
Superb_Victory6385@reddit
It's pure truth.
SuperDrinker@reddit
It's propaganda as much as any other movie about war
porriss@reddit
Not propaganda but genocide!
The_Erotic_Turtle@reddit
It's pure propaganda. It's a bad movie, with not a single redeeming quality, whole plot is just Dara watching atrocities that are happening, with no real dramaturgical reason.
It's literally just meant to make serbs mad at what happened.
Compare it to Quo vais Aida, and it's quite obvious which one was made with an artistic idea behind it, and which one was trying to respark the nationalism.
alpidzonka@reddit
It's not awful on that front tbh, it even introduced positive Croatian (side) characters. Like Croatian villagers who help a woman smuggle her baby to safety in the opening scenes, or Dijana Budisavljević in the end.
That said, it's kinda boring and low budget, and it risks slipping into an exploitation flick a lot of the time. It's much closer to torture porn than a typical Holocaust movie. Not to mention the fact that one of the sexy Ustaše guardwomen is horny for throat-slitting, and we get a juxtaposition of the two Ustaše fucking in a car while a third one is slaughtering Serbs (one by one as they lose at musical chairs). Or the kid who pisses himself and gets murdered because of it, practically played for laughs. Gaga Antonijević is a freak.
draxd_2023@reddit
It's truth as average hollywood "Made based on true event", so some bad shit happen and everything else is pure propaganda from director point of view.
Pale_Remove4714@reddit
It is NOT a propaganda. Rather a sad truth and it SHOULD NOT be forgotten and should be recognized! So this will never ever happen again, and their deaths are NOT in vein.
This does not mean that me as a Serbian should or will hate any Croatian. I will not blame Croatians for the mistakes of their parents and grandparents. That also does not mean that every Croatian elder is evil.
Evil is evil. No matter the nationality.
Alan_Wake_Islamovic@reddit
It ain't no Soldier Blue.
Tiny-Mulberry-2114@reddit
I haven’t watched Dara of Jasenovac it but I do think we need more movies showing how horrific the Ustaše regime was. That’s part of history, and it shouldn’t be ignored especially since many Croats themselves fought and died opposing them.
From what I’ve seen and read the criticism isn’t really that it shows Ustaše crimes against Serbs, but that it’s a poorly made and very one sided film that misses the broader context a story like Jasenovac concentration camp deserves.
Fred_Neecheh@reddit
There are two. sides to Jasenovac? Seriosly?
Are there two sides to Treblinka, Sobibor and Ausjwitz-Birkenau as well, to name but a few?
Tiny-Mulberry-2114@reddit
Bro don't put words into my mouth, no one’s saying there are two sides to crimes like Jasenovac camp same as there aren’t two sides to Auschwitz concentration camp. But even with holocaust movies people still distinguish between how the story is told. For example i've seen people mentioning here Schindler's List which shows horrific crimes but it also includes context, moral complexity and even Germans who opposed the system. Same with The Pianist all great movies it’s focused on Jewish suffering but it still shows nuance and different human behaviors. This criticism of Dara iz Jasenovca isn’t that it shows atrocities it’s that it mostly presents everything in a very black and white way, without broader context which isn't surprising given that the film was a state funded project obviously a political tool for Vučić’s administration. So it’s not about two sides to genocide, it’s about whether a film gives a fuller picture or just one perspective.
Fred_Neecheh@reddit
Thats fine. Sure, Dara from Jasenovac is a terrible film. Subject matter cannot rescue terrible filmmaking. All the mpre the pity, because I do think it should get appropriate treatment. For reference, I think botht the Pianist and Schindlers List are good films.
petre_m_andreevski@reddit
Yes. Not two sides of those camps, but overall in Germany. People were expelled from the party, dislocated or even murdered for opposing the Nazi regime in Germany.
That's the problem with Balkan history no one says what "we did wrong".
Fred_Neecheh@reddit
My grandfathers fought side by side with ethnic Croats, as partisans, against the local quislings/Ustaše. I refuse to reduce these, or other, atrocities to some folkloric Us vs Them. Of course its not an issue of collective guilt, however, if you celebrate the quisling legacy, be it Ustaše or Četnici, and actively deny atrocities, such as Jasenivac, Jadovno, or Srebrenica for that matter, you should feel shame.
That said, anyone celebrating, minimizing or ridiculing these atrocities is commiting a crime themselves. Thats exactly how the legacy of Jasenovac and other Ustaše camps is frequently treated in Croaria, sometimes with official sanction, often with more tacit approval (see for instance a know denialist presenting in Croatian parliament recently).
And on the topic of Germany, it hardly ever acknolwedges crimes against non-Jewish non-German victims. "Myth of the clean Wehrmacht" was real, I bet youdont know about Kragujevac massacre or Kraljevo massacre
And no I dont care about reparations, but genuine contrition.
petre_m_andreevski@reddit
I completely agree with you. And that was the point - Jasenovac and Srebrenica should be treated equally and thought at school in every country in the Balkans.
As a Macedonian, I feel the same when Bulgarian atrocities in WWII are heavily undermined. To quote the official response "Bulgarians were just Nazi administration".
My great grandmother hated Bulgarian regime more than the German Nazis (who were briefly in Skopje until the Bulgarians came).
With that said, her best friend of 50 years, was a Bulgarian lady who was a partisan in the war. They visited each other frequently between Sofia and Skopje up until she passed away 10 years ago.
My point is there were terrible people on both sides who did awful things, and good people who saw that something was very wrong (even in the more recent history e.g. 2001 conflict in Macedonia). We and our children should study all of that.
ShoddyPeace9845@reddit
I think it's mostly referring to the inflation of numbers of deaths to get reparations. And in the serbian community in discourse it's used as justification for everything bad that the serbs did afterwards, including the atrocities in the wars of the 90s.
Fred_Neecheh@reddit
What reparations? SFRY had reparations as part of the settlement with FR Germany. I doubt Jasenovac was part of it, as it was run by local quislings (Ustaše). In any case no reparations have been requested. Nor can they be as the Republic of Croatia constitutionally considers itself the heir of the "antifascist legacy of the State Antifascist Council for the National Liberation of Croatia (ZAVNOH)", not the quisling state.
Odd way to honor that legacy when giving official sanction to a famous hard right/nazi adjacent singer Thompson, the prime ministwr visiting ahead of the concert, with his family.
In nay case, while inflating the numbers is a real strategy to relativize Serb atrocities in the 90s,you should also mention belittling, ridiculing and minimizing the death toll is a real strategy of the neo-Ustaše/Nazi adjacent Croatian rightwing.
For reference, here is aUS Holocaust Museum article Rather than the number of deaths, I was struck by the bestial nature of executions, not that gas chamvers are any better, of course.
In any casex that was a bad film, but Jasenovac can and should be commemorated. My friends in Israel did not know it, for instance.
ShoddyPeace9845@reddit
https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenova%C4%8Dki_mit_i_povijesni_revizionizam
> Nije tajna da se brojka od 500 do 700 tisuća žrtava Jasenovca napuhivala zbog dobivanja većih ratnih reparacija od Njemačke.
Ne znam koji dio nije jasan?
Fred_Neecheh@reddit
Since it was so hard for you to actually read what I wrote, here is a screenshot from the US Holocaust Museum article on Jasenovac. As I wrote, I use these as a reference.
That said, the victims were murdered in most bestial ways. And also, Jasenovac was just the most numerous atrocity perpetrated by the Ustaše. In my garndfathers village in Lika, Ustaše assembled villagera for Catholization ceremony, mostly women and the elderly, then killed them with an axe, one by one. These far smaller crimes never even get a mention.
Haggling over the number of dead is frankly shameful.
ShoddyPeace9845@reddit
> Haggling over the number of dead is frankly shameful.
At least we agree on this. But that's the contention with the inflation and how the horrible death camp is used as a political tool to build a myth that serb nationalists use all the time to defend the narrative of serbs being victims in every conflict since. That's the "other side" we are talking about.
Fred_Neecheh@reddit
Care to comment on the minimization, relativization and ridicule of the WW2 genocide victims by the Croatian nazi-adjacent right wing?
vaskopopa@reddit
There are so many good movies already made that are worth watching before this trash. That is not to say that there shouldn’t be more made, from a fresh perspective, just that this trash is not it.
wallygator91@reddit
Kara iz Jasenovca nisam gledao
Čekam Djecu Kozare taj će biti dobar
svarga108@reddit
It was way worse than in the movie. My family survived only because in one critical moment they stumbled on Italian soldiers instead of ustashas. Those Italians protected them. At the very begining of the war all the men were captured. Those few who managed to escape joined the partisans. Women and children had to flee their homes and watch from the woods how they were raided and burned., rhe whole villages. They hid the mountains and constantly changed places for 5 years. PTSD still runs in the family and we were the lucky ones.
Ashamed_Shoulder1399@reddit
To ni u Srbiji niko nije gledao.
Excellent-Amy-1893@reddit
Tbh, we have zillion movies about Jews in concentration camp, I think it's okay to show that other people suffered as well.
Mindless_Show6593@reddit
I’m a croat. I’ve seen the movie and i enjoyed it. However, it’s very hard to call a movie “based on true events” when half of the events are silly partisan propaganda shown as true events.
Yes, croatian fascist state did terrible things. But there is too many false stories. There is a very popular myth that croatia made soap out of people for example. Everybody who can think critically and use the internet can tell that it’s a stupid hoax. It’s very important not to hyperbolize terrible events because thats when you get people like alex jones who will say that the holocaust didnt happen.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Fun fact: soap actually started as a Nazi hoax and then moved to Ustasa!
Sheb1995@reddit
The Nazis were much more scientifically advanced than the Ustaše and not even their scientists could make soap, yet people seriously believe that a group as primitive as the Ustaše were able to develop it?
Terrible_Double_1145@reddit
My opinion is that things like this shouldn’t be viewed through nationality. In every war, there are good and bad people — some committed crimes, while others helped others, regardless of whether they were Serbs, Croats, or anyone else. The film Dara from Jasenovac is difficult to watch and has its own perspective, but above all it shows how brutal war can be for ordinary people, especially children. What matters is that we learn from stories like this, not use them to divide ourselves further.
GCdotSup@reddit
I didnt notice any propaganda
Hour-Promotion-2496@reddit
Then it worked
/jk I have no idea about the movie
NuclearDisaster5@reddit
Pure propaganda. It would be much better if it went from a standing point of the entire tragedy for everyone that were there...
Independent-Owl-254@reddit
It has nothing to do with Croatian media claims, world media called it propaganda because that's what it is. Cheap and ignorant way to spew hate.
raymaxxp@reddit
WELL DUHHH!!!! (Serbian here btw)
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
Pure propaganda
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Could you elaborate why you feel it’s pure propaganda?
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
It was filmed and released in a short time to counter the release of award winning Quo Vadis Aida, released by Bosniaks showing genocide in Srebrenica.
It's sole purpose was to be anti - Quo Vadis Aida movie, which shows Serbs as villains, and this movie was funded by serbian government to show Serbians as victims aswell. Thus it is propaganda by definition and every single detail is exaggerated.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
I mean I definitely agree horrible timing and rushed production with a lack of story but I think the brutality is pretty well depicted I’d say the movie isn’t as good mainly due to the fact it is pure brutality
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
The foundation of the story is true. Jasenovac existed. Serbs died there. Serbian children died there.
The movie is exaggerated. Even today, whilst official investigations and memorials ranging from Washington, to Germany, to Jewish Foundations, Croatia, and even some researches from Serbia estimate the number of victims of Jasenovac to be in the range of 80.000-100.000 and not all of them being Serbs because Croats, Jews and Roma were killed there too, Serbia's narrative is it was actually 700.000 victims.
Serbian children died, mostly due to negligence, malnutrition and disease - they were not thrown in air and killed by bayonettes.
The foundation of the story is true, with everything else being exaggerated. Thus - propaganda.
I believe even Variety and Los Angeles Times labeled the movie as propaganda. Explicitly using the word "propaganda" which is rarely directly used so I'm not really sure what are we debating here.
It's propaganda.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
You got me until that second paragraph, many pictures who are even free online show absolute brutality to everyone and piles of corpses placed with obvious blunt trauma I’m sorry but you now sound like those people who claim Jews died from diseases in camps. If you believe people who beat women to death wouldn’t do the same to children then I’m not sure we have the same definition of genocides/massacres
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
Yes, there was brutality. Yes it was a crime.
Towards estimated 83.000 people, and about 60% of them being Serbs.
Propaganda does not mean movie is lying. Propaganda means it is exaggerating.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
My only issue with your statement was the claim that Ustasa didn’t target children too I definitely agree with you the movie wasn’t as good as many people claim but what bothers me is you claimed that children weren’t brutalized
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
Ofcourse they were brutalized. Children had no place being in a concentration camp. No civilian really, especially children.
Children were either killed as part of mass executions, where entire families were killed, or died by negligence.
Children were not targeted as individuals and killed for fun, with sledgehammers and bayonettes.
There is absolutely no a single piece of evidence supporting such claim coming from anywhere in the world other than from Serbia itself.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
There are pictures tho of tree saws being used and fire axes I can gladly share them with you
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
Tree saws and axes being used to kill children?
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
On men and women but there are pictures of children too but if you absolutely want to see those I wouldn’t post them here but it goes back to my point if they’d do that to men and women don’t you think it would’ve been used on children too?
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
Of course those are important points. If you have photographic evidence showing that people, including children, were killed in that way in Jasenovac, you should absolutely share it. We can fact-check it. I believe the Jasenovac Memorial Site would also be interested in such material. It is certainly relevant whether the victims were men, women, or children. That distinction can influence how narratives are formed and can be used in propaganda. Why was the film Dara of Jasenovac told from the perspective of a child, rather than, for example, an adult male war criminal who ended up in Jasenovac?
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Because Jasenovac in many articles shows in mass executions sometimes more than 50% were women and children and because it’s more sensitive or touching to the viewer
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
Thus making it propaganda
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Wouldn’t that make most movies involving children pure propaganda too tho?
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
You sent me a link of a dead child in Jasenovac. I already told you children did in fact die in Jasenovac.
I saw no woodsaw or axe.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
At an execution site you claimed disease earlier was the reason or starvation
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
No I said mostly. Children were executed as part of large groups, families. Or died of negligence. They were not singled out and sawn in half with a woodsaw
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Ahhhh ok well that would come back to speculation, but I don’t think we need picture proof for everything, here’s an example we have pictures of the VRS kicking a person on the ground so we can assumed based on that picture use of physical violence was common too not just shooting but then if we look up the Srebrenice massacre all we see are graves mainly due to no photography, but we can still assume from the other picture that there was most probably torture too. I think it works the same way in this case we do have pictures of saws used on civilians and axes on people and pictures of Ustasa in camps laughing covered in blood, we can assume those methods were probably not only used on one group of people especially since we have pictures of dead children too. It all comes back to what did they want to photograph and what they didn’t want to but you can always cross examine same way it was done in the Bosnian war and same way in the Bosnian war use witness testimonies
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
Buddy I already told you critics of Variety and Los Angeles Times labeled the movie as propaganda. Using the word propaganda, which they rarely do. No ifs, no buts - label on the movie is propaganda.
What and why are we discussing here?
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
I mean I agreed with you on the movie the point I didn’t agree was atrocity committed towards children but if that was the only point then we can gladly end this conversation here
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
Every act of cruelty towards a child is an atrocity. I am sorry the children were imprisoned and died. I am glad they werent cut in half by a woodsaw.
But it's as if you're hoping they were
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
It’s not I’m hoping they were it’s the fact that use of hammers and every day tools were common in those mass executions and it felt like when you explained it you made it sound like they didn’t use those same methods on younger "prisoners" which gave me this vibe of like "well yeah they were quick but never any physical torture" yk
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
This reminds me of the case of Prebilovci. I live near the place, near the pits where the crime was committed, not the village itself. My late grandfather was a witness to those events. This is where the problem arises. The crime must be told exactly as it was, without adding or taking anything away. Because when that happens, people become polarized. Instead of mourning the victims, we end up arguing about how many there were and whether they were killed brutally enough or not. In that way, they become a tool for conflict, with no real respect for those poor victims themselves.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
I agree with you, I think I was brainwashed by my own family, they told me how those INSANE methods happened so for me it’s like "what the fuck" so when you told me about like no those were never used methods for me it came off as if you were downplaying the situation. That was immature of me and I apologize I let my emotions interfere with the argument
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
That's exactly how it works for both sides
Evil happened there. Evil. That's it. And we are letting it slip by arguing, when in reality, every normal person should side with the victim. Who in their right mind would approve children being killed.
But it is this kind of things that make such thing possible. I hope they all found peace in heaven
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
I noticed many moments in Balkan history were often about who committed the biggest genocide and pointing fingers obviously my opinion is biased since I am originally a Serb and I notice many times there’s arguments of "Well yeah this happened but that side see they used a knife on this or that" and often would use the brutality instead of just accepting that a certain number of people died and were scared during those moments
AdBeautiful9489@reddit
My grandfather was 12 years old when they were called in the village and told they were going to fight with the Serbs. He told me that he and the other boys had no idea what that meant. They thought they were just going to throw stones at some rival group of Serbs. When they arrived and saw what was actually happening, it first caused them deep trauma, and second, they were afraid to leave because they thought they would be killed if they did. Those children did nothing. They simply froze in place and watched. A few years later, he ended up at Bleiburg, still a minor. He survived purely by chance. They let about fifty of them run across a field in Slovenia and then shot after them. He told me he just kept running and never looked back. He spent three to four years hiding and begging across Slovenia and parts of Croatia before he felt safe enough to return home. Not once, in over 80 years of life, did he ever say that the people of Prebilovci deserved what happened to them. He never expressed hatred. He never claimed that the perpetrators were “his people.” He never tried to downplay or distort that crime. The case of Prebilovci has also been subject to many additions and omissions. But what is the result of that? The pit into which those people were thrown is neglected. No one ever comes to pray or light a single candle. So who really cares about those victims, and for what reasons? They are used as a tool for conflict
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
So as you said these crimes are brutalized way more in media purely for hatred and propaganda and less for remembering the victims. I remember when I got angered once cause someone in USA said that we Serbs were some sort of cartoon evil and I lost my uncle and grandpa to the war and they were civilians. But when someone uses my family as example to explain brutality it also angers me because then they turn into some weird message for nationalism and less people to be remembered who shouldn’t have been killed. I definitely get your point now
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
As in they were more forgiving making them sound less evil than they were actually
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
I sent you also a link involving a child victim of execution and sadly it got taken down
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Here you go btw https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/pa1139842
Big-Waltz5204@reddit
Haven't seen the movie but I am in favor of it, if it is as factual as possible. Lot of horrible things happened in Krajina during ww2. I heard from older people in my family how in some places Serb families were burned alive in their homes. Movie about Jesenovac is needed, just like movie about Srebrenica or Vukovar, factual and done as tastefully as possible without assigning collective blame because that gets us nowhere but fighting forever.
I am not in favor of victim mentality though and constantly going on about what happened. I feel like specially outsiders still fetishize Bosnia with what happened in the 90s, and now 30 years later it's still seen as war torn country. Another movie about Bosnia war winning award gonna make me sick. I'm afraid we gonna end up like Israel, being perpetual victims to the point where it's a joke. At some point as people and nations we gotta move on and focus on future. Tired of old sentiments, let's build something new.
punished_begovat@reddit
"Bosnia qualified for football WC! 30 years ago-" aaaaaaaaaaa
But still though, can't just walk over a genocide. An entire post-war generation was molded on that information, and I think that is correct, though foreigners can't seem to emphasize it enough whenever they talk about a beautiful country with a thousand year history.
Radiant_Formal6511@reddit
Its both all true, and propaganda at the same time
LeekBeneficial148@reddit
I watched a film and it is really tragic. It happened, yes, but it was about 80 years ago, every person who did those things to those poor people is dead, new generation is living today and I think that Serbs should not be mad at today’s Croats, it’s their grandfathers who did it, not them.
I’m Montenegrin with Serbian origin
Viridis-ad-rubeum@reddit
Anything Serbs do or mention regarding WWII is invariably tainted by propaganda.
Beautiful_Limit_2719@reddit
Considering the topics you open, of course you "enjoyed" the film.Psychopath.
Butt_crack_Dweller@reddit
All of my family were anti-fascists and part of the partisan movement in WW2. Some of them were killed in Jasenovac, or in battles. As a Croat, I am fully aware of the monstrous atrocities that took place in Jasenovac, but after watching the film I can conclude that it is total propaganda, a bad film in itself, that uses the victims for an ugly reason to push the narrative that all Croats are genocidal monsters. All the characters are one-dimensional, without any depth, background, etc. It's just a bad propaganda film
palavestrix@reddit
I don't think it's a good movie from an artistic point of view, but it's not exaggerating the atrocities that happened in Jasenovac.
Equivalent_Candy5248@reddit
It insinuates that mass murders commited at Jasenovac and in the Independent State of Croatia were a product of psychopathy and individual pathology. While that was the case in some instances, the film completely avoids depiction of systemic violence perpetrated as a political choice.
Besides, the topography of the camp is terribly done. It ruins any sense of immersion for those who are well acquainted with it.
GrandTimely2165@reddit
I think the main argument of Croatia politicians and right wing citizens is that the film was funded by the Serbian government or something like that. I personally didn’t watch it, but I doubt it could accurately depict the horrors of jasenovac and other concentration camps in the puppet state of NDH. Maybe it is propaganda, who knows, but I have nothing against it as long as it has a didactic character which doesn’t advertise national hatred and violence.
Sheb1995@reddit
Some Croats call it propaganda because it shows them as "the bad guys" in the same way that Serbs call certain films about the Yugoslav Wars propaganda because it makes them look like "the bad guys".
The former-Yugoslavia (and probably the Balkans in general) have a giant victim complex, so anything that shows them as aggressors or perpetrators bursts that bubble.
budhala@reddit
Propaganda suggests something is misleading. What would that be?
PaxDomus@reddit
It's not straight out propaganda but in full honesty it's not a very good movie either.
Live-Method-219@reddit
No, it's not propaganda. Similarly to Quo Vadis, Aida, it's mostly based on historical facts with some amount of fiction (which doesn't change main story).
It's just that some people feel some sort of personal guilt (without any real reason) due to government media propaganda, so they activate defense mechanism on movies with these topics
TheMaze99@reddit
This movie is Serbian mytology.
vievlkn@reddit
I haven't watched it but the issue with this film is that it seems like it was made as a response to the Srebrenica move. I agree that a modern movie about the horrors of Jasenovac should have been made, but the timing of it just keeps me from watching it.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
True
MrImAlwaysrighT1981@reddit
Didn't watch the movie, but, the problem is, it came out right after movie Quo Vadis, Aida? as a Serbian government response to genocide commited by them in Srebrenica in july of 1995, of witch it speak of. So it's served as a way to say, whatever we did to others, others did it to us, but worse.
ShoddyPeace9845@reddit
Yes, context matters, it was an obvious response, and serb nationalists typicall use ww2 as justification for any atrocities (of which there are many) done by them since.
Professional-Fee-488@reddit
It came out before quo vadis aida you absolute muppet. Every single comment you made on this thread, in addition to being incorrect, is meant to spread hatred, what is wrong with you?
Just_Deer_3339@reddit
It's not propaganda, the movie is just badly written and executed.
Many-Rooster-7905@reddit
Let poor vučić visit damn jasenovac already you damn ustašas
elektricniorgazam@reddit
I am Serbian and grew up so surrounded by propaganda that I hate any form of it, but I honestly loved this movie. It shows an awful period in our shared history but at no point did I get the sense it was anti-Croatian, just anti-ustaše. I honestly started watching it ready for propaganda but it was a really well done, beautiful movie.
padel_zdravlje@reddit
Of course it is, it's "Croats bad - the movie"
-Sweet_Chaos-@reddit
We are ashamed of this man.
Mindless_Show6593@reddit
We are not. We are shamed of the ustashe.
-Sweet_Chaos-@reddit
Which this guy seems to be. :))
Mindless_Show6593@reddit
Yea sure, i dont buy that narrative.
-Sweet_Chaos-@reddit
That's surely why he made that comment. 🤣 Both people like him and you are the reason why we still don't get along. He is openly making bad comments and you are enabler.
Mindless_Show6593@reddit
Nahh, you are the reason we hate each other because calling everybody and anything fascist just creates nationalism.
-Sweet_Chaos-@reddit
Huh? Are you seeing what he said and here you are completely ignoring that. My comment stated that we are ashamed of him, and you came to defend him when he was clearly being wrong. Not calling out hateful behaviour is the problem, not the opposite. Imagine not making dumb comment so that there won't be a reason to be called out, but sure, let's blame the other side. Clown behaviour at its finest.
Electrical_Pie444@reddit
I'll just say this: The most prominent scene in this movie is a complete and utter absurd piece of propaganda with no basis in reality whatsoever.
In the said scene, the Serb inmates are forced to play the "musical chairs" and ones who lose are killed by the Ustaše with the "Srbosjek" (aka "the Serb-cutter") knives. There are absolutely zero evidence of such a grotesque massacre ever happening, and it serves no purpose but to portray the Croats as literal monsters in the most absurd way possible. If you don't believe me try searching anywhere for such an event ever happening.
The "Serb-cutter" knife itself is an absurdity that notion of which has absolutely zero basis in reality and is a modern fabrication without any credible sources, eyewitness acounts or photographs of it ever being used for killing anyone, let alone in WW2 Croatia where no one probably even knew what it was and where not a single piece of such knife was ever recovered. If you research the topic even further, you will learn that the knife in question is called "Gräwiso" and was manufactured for cutting wheat ears and because of its bluntness could not even harm a person in any manner that could cause death. Once again, if you don't believe me try searching for it yourself.
It's incredibly bizarre for me that I even have to explain that people somewhere were forced to play literal musical chairs, a game which was not even popularized in any way in Croatia at the time, then getting killed with a blunt knife which no one there had even owned, and all of that without any sources, photos or eyewitness acounts, is a ridiculous notion with zero basis in reality that exists only for propaganda purposes. With this being the most prominent scene in the movie, you can probably imagine how overblown or straight up false the other parts of it are.
Jasenovac was a terrible place and the things that perspired in WW2 Croatia in general were, and I'm not saying that everything in the film is completely false and made up, but filming a movie with such levels of historical falsification and cheap propaganda only tarnishes and diminuitizes the actual victims who suffered and died in those times.
Full-Lake6967@reddit
Much worse things happened in Jasenovac
Electrical_Pie444@reddit
Much worse things than supposedly having dedicated Serb-killing knives, forcing people to play party games then killing the losers, having slaughtering competitions with thousands of dead in a few hours, making soap out of people and all the other nonsense? Really? Even worse things than those? This list of made up science fiction level propaganda is not extreme enough?
Honestly, please just don't comment anything anymore, by doing this you are just taking the piss out of the people who actually suffered and died.
DetectiveScottie@reddit
Srbosjek is a perfect example of excessive false propaganda. That knife was used in agriculture, and anyone who puts even a little effort into thinking can understand how impractical such a type of knife would be for ‘slaughter,’ as the propaganda claims. Such propaganda only belittles the real victims and further blurs the line between truth and exaggeration.
Full-Lake6967@reddit
Yes. Much worse.
FoxFort@reddit
Zero basis in reality is your downplaying of what was happening there. Petar Brzica, set a record with or without using that knifle. Just by that setting that record in ONE DAY. We can understand how cruel that place was. You know that as well, but you sound like a regular U fan.
Electrical_Pie444@reddit
The atrocities of the so called "Petar Brzica", who never even existed is an already thoroughly debunked, made up story by a Serbian quasi-historian and revisionist Milan Bulajić, who is in academic circles regarded as a comical character almost on par with other famous Serbian "academics" such as Jovan Deretić.
There is zero, and I repeat, ZERO evidence of such a character ever existing beside Bulajić's writings that came out in the 90's and early 2000's. Even the one single purported picture of "Petar Brzica" that exists is some other completely unrelated soldier. My god, even the surname "Brzica" literally means "a fast one" , and the made up guy was the "fastest killer of Serbs" in this propaganda piece.
Again, I'm stumped by the fact that I have to explain how a conveniently named guy, who purportedly won a "Serb-killing competition", where multiple thousands of people were killed with melee weapons in a few hours, in of itself an already ridiculous, physically and mathematically impossible grotesque of a scene, for whose existence there is zero evidence beside the ramblings of one single Serbian ultranationalist writer during the war in the 90s, in fact never happened and that it's a complete and utter schzophrenic absurdity of a story.
FoxFort@reddit
OMG, if they lied about details A and B, what other lies they forced upon us. Could it be that it never happened in first place :O Perhaps it was all a lie, just to demonize one side.
/s
Electrical_Pie444@reddit
You are completely missing my point. What I'm saying is exactly the opposite; Jasenovac was a terrible place and Ustaše are responsible for numerous crimes, but making up ridiculous propaganda about "Serb-cutting knives" , "killing competitions" , "human soap" and so on, only causes a counter-reaction and a shift toward extremism from the other side that will eventually lead to a public opinion amongst Croats that in fact nothing bad happened in the Independent State of Croatia and that it's all just a conspiracy by communists and Serbs. All of this tarnishes the dignity and memories of people who actually lost their lives under the fascist regime at the time.
Mindless_Show6593@reddit
The evidence for that knife is as credible as evidence for bigfoot. Why are you guys doing that to yourselves. By pushing that silly propaganda, you are making victims of jasenovac look stupid. There was ni srbosjek. There was no soap made of out of humans. There were terrible crimes against humanity.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
[ Removed by Reddit ]
PfromC@reddit
If you are intelligent enough, you will notice the hyperproduction of films and series like Dara of Jasenovac, Oluja, Tvrđava after Vučić became president. Genocide deniers of Srebrenica genocide, such as Nikola Pejaković, who take part in creating such works, in Serbia are being appointed directors of national theaters.
Bardosaurus@reddit
I’m Serbian and I lost ancestors in Jasenovac. I will not be watching anything funded by SNS. Fuck the hate.
Incvbvs666@reddit
To call Dara of Jasenovac a 'propaganda movie' is absolutely shameless. This is one of the most well-researched movies and is as historically accurate as it is realistically possible for movies of this genre. It is sad that the west is so entrenched in its anti-Serb stance that it views anything that challenges this narrative as 'propaganda.' I believe the most heinous example of this is Robert Abele's review of the movie.
chchilindrina@reddit
At first I wrote I don't think I'd label it as propaganda, but now that I finished the rest of the comment, I think it actually was propaganda, and not a good film at all in my opinion.
I wanted to watch it because my great-grandmother and great-grandfather were killed by the regime (one in Jasenovac, the other in Zemun), and my family is mixed so regardless of the history, we have a generational aversion to propaganda on either of the sides.
What actually baffles me is how propagandists on the Serbian side are always more focused on Ustaše and how ruthless they were, instead of focusing on the victims and reconstructing this genocide from a victim's perspective. When I began watching films on this topic, I did not find any that could communicate or ioeven attempted to communicate with the audience from a victim's perspective. This film tried doing that, but failed miserably after about 40 minutes in, it was just all over the place, and instead of developing a good story around the main character, it went too far with sensationalist and literal depictions of Ustaše's cruelty, it didn't bring anything new, it showed scenes I've already heard and seen in other films and documentaries (the infamous "samo ti sinko radi svoj posao", I mean, seriously, it loses its power when repeated so many times and in this film they just threw it in without context, without meaning, without connection to the main character's story and the film itself).
So, all in all, it was a bad film, it did not deserve the Oscar nomination and I'm glad it wasn't nominated. It started off well, but took a propaganda U-turn quickly.
vaskopopa@reddit
I’m a Serb whose grandparents lived through the pogroms described in this film. I did not see this and will not watch it. It is a feeble attempt at propaganda that abuses the memory of my grandparents and what they went through.
It was made and released at the same time as “Quo Vadis, Aida” and intended to deflect the attention of local audiences.
tompa_zg@reddit
Well, if it only portray the Serbs, you could make a case that its propaganda. Because the victims of the camp were also Jews, Roma, and Croats.
You can always visit the memorial center.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Sadly I found just a bit here and there and some websites I did see sourced on Wikipedia were fully taken down but I also don’t want to visit one in either Croatia or Serbia due to the risk of either side taming it down or overplaying it
tompa_zg@reddit
I wouldn't say this is downplaying it.
The memorial center cites around 100 000 people killed, which is in line with modern estimates of 80 000 to 100 000.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Where is this?
tompa_zg@reddit
That's the monument in the Jasenovac Memorial Center in Croatia.
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Never visited Croatia sadly but I hope I could soon
CmdrJemison@reddit
As far as I am aware this movie was also labeled as propaganda by international media like Los Angeles Times. I heard it was even financed by the Vučic.
Never seen this movies, but it is on my list.
Kiki955@reddit
Biggest problem there is that it was not Croatian crimes,it was NDH crimes,like with germans in ww2, like with Serbs and Srebrenica,we should just embrace the crime as it was,we are not the people who did it,criminals did it,and they should be talked about,not about the country that did it,bc of the few politicians and right wing people we think all the country has done it in now days
Tiny-Mulberry-2114@reddit
Never watched it but I am of an opinion that we need more movies showing how horrible ustashe were considering also a lot of Croats fought and died fighting the ustashe.
From what I heard it's poorly made movie not because it's a serbian movie showing ustashe killing Serbs but because it missed every key point a movie such as this should portray.
mosa_kota@reddit
Didnt see the movie but from experience, Croats usually downplay the Ustasha crimes, while Serbs usually exaggerate them. Truth, as always, is found somwhere in the middle.
Andreuw5@reddit
Is this the same as Vanga in Bulgaria? She was propaganda, more than anything. Many ppl were radiated with wrong news, though...
EdoValhalla77@reddit
Unfortunately movie was used as propaganda. Which is shame since it is about real things that happened but instead of dealing with human tragedy of victims of war it was more concerned how to make all Croats look like Ustasa fascist and portraying Croats like non human monsters. You don’t have to be a monster to act and be evil. Something movies like Schindler list or Pianists showed us. You can perfectly be well functioning person and at the same time really disgusting pice of shit. Those movies really puts everyone to ask themselves what is the reason that at one moment one can be loving husband and carrying father just to minute later erase people and children like they are not humans. Dara basically comes short as it’s only portraying evil people as just psychopaths, people born without emotions or regrets. Shame as it could be a really good movie.
MrSmileyZ@reddit
!remindme 11h
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
B r o please don’t turn this into another controversy post
MrSmileyZ@reddit
I haven't watched the movie and have 0 idea about it. I'm just getting out of a night shift, so imma read the comments (if there are any) when I wake up.
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sasvim_nebitan@reddit
I don't think all Croats actually claim it's propaganda, but rather those who still idolize the Ustasha movement...
SlavKeeper@reddit (OP)
Yes that’s why I specified many Croatian Media not the people themselves! I think there was a politician too that commented on it once?