Racing rules/advice
Posted by jtuma@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 74 comments
I’ve been sailing for a couple of years, and my wife recently started sailing on her own instead of just crewing. We’ve been trying to race each other but keep having near collisions, who has the right of way?
Also, any tips for running proper races between two boats? Our start sequence is just saying “okay, go” at a mark. I know a Sunfish vs. a Topaz isn’t the best matchup, I’ll probably get another Sunfish next year. Any advice appreciated!
Sh0ckValu3@reddit
"The Rules" are complex enough that having someone on board who understands more than just port/starboard tack is actually a nice benefit to larger (amateur) races. "Can I take them up?" "Did they have overlap?"
But for just funsies with your wife, usually knowing port/starboard windward/leeward is good enough.
Here's the book if you want to dive in:
jtuma@reddit (OP)
Thanks! Love a good book recommendation.
TriXandApple@reddit
Also, people are going to downvote me here, but this is a cracking time to use AI.
LameBMX@reddit
dont use AI for anything you are not versed to sanity check. had two posters in here. both about vibe coding some stuff. a few pointed questions.. one I wished well, as they understood what was happening. the other, has been quite quiet.
Groot_Calrissian@reddit
While sage concerns, any of the AI Tools can provide specific references so you can back up its summary and conclusions with your own reaearch and reading. This is an effective way to use AI to point you to good source material. Blindly trusting anything AI spits out is not a good approach for anything. You just need to learn how to manage your prompts and requests to ensure you are given source material, and even dissenting material with references to check contentious topics from multiple perspectives. AI has a lot of potential as a tool, but the user still has to apply it well and understands its limitations.
LameBMX@reddit
and remember.. ai only references things that back up its own summary. but yea, doing lots of work to get up to speed is viable.
TriXandApple@reddit
If I could show you the opposite, would you change your mind?
LameBMX@reddit
the problem is you cant. even if you had a snippet of code from an iteration.... other iterations arent guaranteed to be the same. its the fundamental difference of using AI and a search. AI changes itself via use.
im not saying ai tools arent awesome. they are.
in the spirit of this post, its easy enough to take the ai response and review it with published rules. breaking down how ai came to a conclusion.
in here (the sub not the post) talking about vibe coding navigation stuff. one could articulate why their vibe coded stuff was safe, another just didn't respond. im all for the former.. against the latter.
TriXandApple@reddit
I'm really sorry if come off as a dick here, but your core understand of how LLMs work is completely wrong. "AI changes itself via use." is completely incorrect.
Groot_Calrissian@reddit
I'll moderate that statement, it isn't completely incorrect. It's a perceived behavior, which I believe is largely attributed to prompt quality and style. While the root issue is user knowledge base, and being able to leverage the tools properly, the different tools do respond differently to prompts and prompts need to be structures differently to work best. If the user does not drove deep enough to understand them methods and limitations of the tools, the observed behavior is simply that it isn't consistent.
(FYI, you can wipe all your stored data and start with a fresh model any time, so if you've botched the customization you can just start fresh when you want to. You can also detect which AI model version you apply in case you don't like how a particular one responses, though I would say in general the newest is likely to be the best quality unless you have a specific reason to revert.)
I am by no means an expert, I am very much still exploiting and learning AI tools. But I started out asking each tool what it does best, what its known weaknesses are, how to best verify accurate and thorough responses from it, and how best to structure a prompt to receive accurate and truthful responses and avoid hallucination and other errors. Then I asked each tool the same about the other tools. This built a basis of understanding that I then experimented with on familiar topics so I could easily verify or validate the output. I found some models work better with the way I prompt, and the information I tend to use AI for, than others, and so I have gravitated to those tools more than others. Currently I find Claude and Gemini to be my most used AI platforms, Claude for informational research and background, like an interactive encyclopedia, and Gemini is better with more recent inputs, news, forums, aggregating opinion pieces and summarizing a broad view of a topic. Particularly with opinion pieces, it's easy to aggregate a majority opinion and several dissenting opinions with direct references for each example so you can look for yourself. Done platforms need the target question first followed by relevant data and boundaries, some need a pile of data and valid sources first and the request and clarification at the end. Some perform better with more complex tasks with more data, and some are better at keeping it simple. Dialing in your prompt and the type of request to the platform you use is a big part of being successful with the current AI tools.
Groot_Calrissian@reddit
That's not completely true. I've asked AI to provide references that oppose am what presented, and it gave me a number of alternate viewpoints. I don't trust AI outputs completely, but it does a good job of parsing through a ton of data and drilling down to relevant sets of information. You have to give critical prompts to get good data back but I've had to grudgingly admit that it is pretty good when used well. I'm a slow adopter but I'm finding uses.
Low-Republic-4145@reddit
Chat GPT recently told me that being on a port tack meant that the wind was coming from the starboard side of the boat. When I pointed out that error it agreed and then offered to provide additional information on related subjects. No thanks.
TriXandApple@reddit
Skill issue I guess. https://pastebin.com/0ZABxb19
_Barbaric_yawp@reddit
Having a copy of the rulebook is always a good idea, but the language can be technical. I recommend Davy Perry's 'Understanding the racing Rules of Sailing". It translates everything in to English. Also, both the rulebook and Dave's book come out every four years, because the rules are tweaked every four years. You want the 2025-2028 version of both.
Sh0ckValu3@reddit
Thanks for that. I've started and quit reading the official set like 100 times. I like understanding the finer points, but it's frustrating to learn them 1 at a time, a priori, is annoying.
I'm going to check out your recommendation
13lackMagic@reddit
It’s not really a book recommendation, it the rules of racing. Like the actual regulations that govern sanctioned racing events.
jtuma@reddit (OP)
Oh that makes sense. That’s like saying the dictionary is a good book recommendation lol
the-montser@reddit
The rules are available for free in PDF version on the World Sailing website
jtuma@reddit (OP)
Oh I’ll check that out!
YerMumsPantyCrust@reddit
Hey so is “windward” starboard or port? Or maybe I’m thinking of it all wrong, and it’s either forward or aft. Thanks, sailing solo to Hawaii next week and been curious about this one.
RobinsonCruiseOh@reddit
everything in sailing is relative to the direction of the wind. windward means up wind. So if the wind is blowing from your starboard side, you are on starboard tack, and if the other boat is parallel and sailing with you, then you are both on starboard tack. that means the tie is broken by who is upwind of the other. that boat is the boat that gives way (if all else is equal).
dirigibleplum87@reddit
It's whoever is closer to the "source" or direction the wind is coming from. In this video the wind is coming from both boat's starboard side, and the POV boat is closer so they are windward.
nachodorito@reddit
You're on the same tack so in this instance (at least non-racing) you give way being closer to the wind
craftaliis@reddit
In addition: one taking over should give way in normal trafic, but that might not apply in races. I’m a family cruiser thought, so racers: feel free to correct.
Brave-Entrance7475@reddit
This part happens with ... well, an inch or so of room and not before
desertrat75@reddit
You’re getting burned by a Sunfish to leeward? Man that’s motivation if there ever was 😆.
enuct@reddit
you can get the book for free from world sailing, it's basically the same as the us sailing book.
but it's a very well designed as printed book, I bought one last year. but you can also find YouTube videos for the basic racing rules of sailing.
VowOfScience@reddit
The best online reference is www.racingrulesofsailing.org. 90% of your questions will relate to rules 10-13, which address who has right of way in every situation. The remaining rules of Part 2 mostly address limitations on the right of way boat.
The best in-depth resource is Dave Perry's book "Understanding the racing rules of sailing through 2028".
ez_as_31416@reddit
Racing rules are complex. Check out some youtube vids. They are based on (in the US anyway) Colregs. Most important rule: don't hit anyone - especially your wife.
And, does she want to race you? Is she that competitive? Or is that on you.
You can just have fun, you know.
Birdchild@reddit
racing is fun
ez_as_31416@reddit
It is said that whenever there are 2 or more sailboats heading in the same direction that there is a race.
Birdchild@reddit
Whenever two or more are gathered in my name, so there is a race. I think Hobie Alter said that...
jtuma@reddit (OP)
That does seem like a pretty good rule. I’ll also check out youtube, didn’t realize there were a lot of rules. Yea she’s actually more competitive than me. I have to constantly dodge her…she doesn’t like to budge lol
awaymsg@reddit
I raced competitively for years (dinghy and offshore), and I still had to look up minor rules all the time. If you do decide to get into casual racing, at least knowing the major rules (starboard/port, windward/leeward, start sequence, mark room, protest) will get you 95% of the way there
Dangerous_Mix_7037@reddit
There are the basic collision rules: windward/ leeward, port / starboard, overtaking. Then there's the actual racing rules, stuff like starting line, overlap at the marks, etc. Start with the basics, they're also used for non-racing situations.
Strict-Air2434@reddit
Advice for winning. Flatten that main a little ~ out haul & halyard/Cunningham. Sheet that jib harder then use the weather sheet to pull the clew in a couple inches to weather. 3 fundamental rules Starboard over port Leeward over windward Overtaking boat is obliged to stay clear.
dolampochki@reddit
Here are the rules: https://www.sailing.org/inside-world-sailing/rules-regulations/racingrules/
Shua4887@reddit
Starboard over Port Windward over leeward Overtaken over overtaking
Pumbaasliferaft@reddit
I take it you understand port and starboard tack?
Leeward boat has right of way?
Overtaking boat keep clear?
For mucking about, that’s probably all you need
C-O-N@reddit
Overtaking boat keep clear isn't a rule
Pumbaasliferaft@reddit
Rule 11 clear astern clear ahead Rule 17 same track over lapped
And for good measure, if you have a serious accident whilst racing, the maritime authority you live under throws the racing rules away and prosecutes with the collision regs
C-O-N@reddit
Rule 11 is "On the same tack, overlapped" and says nothing about a boat coming from clear astern
Rule 17 does give a limitation to a boat coming from clear astern, but that limitation is to not sail above her proper course.
If you come from clear astern and establish an overlap to leeward of another boat but your proper course is to sail closer to the wind than that boat. The windward boat must keep clear under Rule 11. The overtaking boat is not required to bear away from its proper course just because it is overtaking.
Pumbaasliferaft@reddit
These guys are a husband and wife racing each other across a lake
Rule 11 must keep clear ahead, it means you can’t ram the boat in front. Then if you do create an over lap rule 17 says that you can’t sail above your proper course unless you come from 2 boat lengths to leeward. That is not so easy to do
C-O-N@reddit
Rule 12 (not rule 11) says a boat clear astern shall keep clear of a boat clear ahead, but once an overlap is established Rule 12 no longer applies. Rule 17 does not necessarily mean the overtaking boat must keep clear. It generally plays out that way but it is not always the case. It's most commonly an issue downwind if a boat with an asymmetric spinnaker overtakes a boat a symmetric spinnaker to leeward. In that situation, the boat with the symmetric spinnaker must come up and allow the asymmetric boat to sail her proper course.
For a husband and wife just racing around a lake for fun it really doesn't matter all that much. I just get a little.triggered when people say overtaking boat must keep clear because it is very intentionally not a rule and hasn't been for a long time.
Pumbaasliferaft@reddit
And apart from everything else, your interpretation of rule 17 is way off
C-O-N@reddit
Go have a read of the case book. In particular Case 7, Case 46, and maybe Case 14 (though this is more about a disagreement on proper course).
Pumbaasliferaft@reddit
For this conversation it was enough
The results of the rules are essentially the same
And, again, it bears remembering that if you cause a serious accident neither the prosecuting authority or your insurance company will care about the rules of racing.
C-O-N@reddit
How many rule breaches while racing result in serious accidents? The vast, VAST majority are people avoiding a collision, shouting protest, and having an argument in a protest room. Maybe a little bump and some minor damage at worst. Saying the rules don't matter because if you get in a serious crash nobody cares about them anyway is honestly a terrible take.
jtuma@reddit (OP)
Ah so the boat catching up has to stay out of the way too. Appreciate it!
Pumbaasliferaft@reddit
Yeah, it gets a bit more layered in the overtake, like you can’t get an overlap to leeward and push the windward boat up. You have to come from x amount of distance leeward to lift them up
Level_Improvement532@reddit
Power driven vessels are much more cut and dry. Overtaking vessel must remain clear and not impede the vessel overtaken.
Pumbaasliferaft@reddit
They still have port and starboard and the pecking order
Singinghillscpl@reddit
Got smoked by a sunfish.
Professional-Time444@reddit
Smoked sunfish sounds like a great canapé tho
jtuma@reddit (OP)
Haha I sheeted out to take the video! She is pretty fast though.
Fred_Derf_Jnr@reddit
This is a PDF visually representing the racing rules.
https://www.allenbrothers.co.uk/product/racing-rules-of-sailing-digital-download/
Firm_Objective_2661@reddit
Rule 0.1. Your wife is always on starboard, even if she’s not 😂
jawisi@reddit
Often heard:
Old age!
The wife!
Starboard!
Mark room!
See you at the bar!
Grindit2Findit@reddit
You don’t need a book to know that your wife is always right. You’ll win in each situation if you go by that rule.
bsavery@reddit
Simple acronym for remembering right of way - SAIL
S - Starbord boat has right or way over a port tack boat
A - Ahead ( a boat ahead has right of way on one overtaking)
I - Inside at the mark, the boat overlapped inside has room to round the mark inside the two boat length circle
L - (The case here) Leeward boat has right of way over a boat to windward.
EmuSmall5846@reddit
Here’s the link to the official world sailing rulebook: https://media.sailing.org/sailing/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/29083752/2025-2028-RRS-with-Changes-and-Corrections.pdf
New_Day_Co-op2@reddit
Google “Rabbit Start”.
Here is one description https://www.duluthyachtclub.com/racing/racing-information/rabbit-start-intructions
Google simplified racing rules of sailing Here is one result
https://www.jervisbaysailingclub.net/SIMPLIFIED-RACING-RULES-FOR-BEGINNERS.pdf
Extreme-Mood5605@reddit
Came to say this as well. Good links! We used to use rabbit starts a lot, back in the day when I raced lasers, for practicing with a friend. Sunfish are a hoot to sail! Quick but forgiving. Huge fun for the dollar sailing! Enjoy!
jtuma@reddit (OP)
This is very helpful. Thanks :)
danielt1263@reddit
Came here to say this.
Comfortable-Ad8560@reddit
She is already way better than you. Just accept it and keep trying. Rabbit start and keep trading positions. Then you'll learn about windshiftds and favored sides. The journey never ends! Enjoy!
Naive_Adeptness6895@reddit
Starboard tack vs Port tack in the form of chicken is not recommended.
Elegant-Leg540@reddit
Pro tip: your wife always has right of way 😉
frankenpoopies@reddit
Dave Perry has a great book about it. There’s a nice poster with the rules cited on the web somewhere
Stujitsu2@reddit
What kind of boats are those
jtuma@reddit (OP)
A sunfish and a topaz uno plus
Mandryd@reddit
Heres a video i made about the basics a while back: getting started with the racing rules of sailing
capriciousapathy@reddit
There are standard rules, they can get complicated, especially if you’re racing more than just you two. They are not all the same as traditional right of ways. The book, the racing rules of sailing could help get you started. You’ll need buoys or some type of mark to set up a starting line with a starting time. If you use chat, that’ll give you some great tips too.
scot2282@reddit
Read the port/starboard rules. Enjoy the sunfish! Great boat.