Proposed Comprehensive Modernization of Part 141 Training released
Posted by T271@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 15 comments
This report was submitted recommending changes for modernization of Part 141 pilot training and includes many changes to the existing regulations. I haven't had a chance to look through it all yet as it is 471 pages long. Jason Blair has a short blurb about it on his website already that offers an opinion on it https://jasonblair.net/.
ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit
I read through the docket. This feel like a push towards mimicking integrated atpl courses that are common in Europe. I don’t think having more 141 schools is necessary a good thing. They cost more, have on average worse student outcomes and generally suck the fun out of flying. Sure they are designed to pump out pilots with a high degree of standardization. As a cfi I believe we should be tailoring individual training to students and allowing instructors to have freedom over the way they teach.
barcode-username@reddit
How do you know they have worse student outcomes? I see that constantly on this sub, but never anything showing it's true.
tesla_aviation@reddit
Once you are a part 121 CA at a regional it will make a lot more sense. lol
TSwiftIcedTea@reddit
I taught at a 141 and trained a lot of students who did their private 61 before coming to me. Anecdotally, those students on average were extremely deficient in all aspects compared to students who did their private with us.
None of them would have passed a private final stage check with us and none of our CFI’s would have signed them off for a checkride. The common theme was they had some connection to the DPE who did their ride, which is a conflict of interest.
While there is an argument to be made that 141 is too hard, there is also an argument to be made that 61 can be too easy in some cases and allow people to slip through who don’t meet standards.
ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit
The 141 school I attended had a 60-70% attrition rate. Most either being put on training plans and being forced out or not being able to afford it. 600 students came in during freshman year and roughly 100 finished with either their cfi or multi as part of the course.
AIMIF@reddit
Is attrition rate the real measure of success with flight training though?
barcode-username@reddit
Also, AOPA data shows a general flight training dropout rate of 80%. So your school was doing better than average.
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2010/november/10/flight_training_summit
mitch_kramer@reddit
I'm curious if the part 61 success rate is any better? Even part 61 has a lot of attrition. Many who start will never finish for one reason or another. I also don't believe all 141 programs are created equal. Plenty of bad ones out there but there are a lot of good ones as well. I do agree it's much more expensive unnecessarily.
barcode-username@reddit
That sounds the same as anywhere else. The drop out rate is very high for flight training, regardless of 141 or 61.
x4457@reddit
As additional data, our first year attrition at the collegiate program I graduated from was approximately 80%.
Oregon-Pilot@reddit
Almost as if everyone is an individual human being and learns in their own way, at their own pace. I feel like 141 contradicts a number of basic FOIs.
bhalter80@reddit
I'm with you in that belief and all of my training has been mom n pop but I do wonder if we set students up for struggles as they move into professional, time boxed, standardized programs because in our world the only limitation on training is the student's ability/interest to pay.
When you were at Riddle how was the standardization there and does it set people up for an easier entry into a FlightSafety/Regional etc... type rating program which is very much time boxed by the employer's willingness to pay
ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit
It was extremely standardized to a problem in my opinion. It will probably help when I get to the airlines but also it was overkill for flying 172’s. Particularly in commercial, I had my own techniques to do lazy 8’s and po-180’s and they resulted in me always being in acs standards and it was comfortable, however I didn’t do it exactly the way the program wanted and I was kept from passing a lesson until i did it exactly the way they wanted and it resulted in me struggling more and not always being within standards. I just did things my way for the Dpe checkride and I passed just fine.
bhalter80@reddit
Part of it is setting boundaries that students need to understand the expectation is they will complete a program in X amount of time and not drag it out
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
This report was submitted recommending changes for modernization of Part 141 pilot training and includes many changes to the existing regulations. I haven't had a chance to look through it all yet as it is 471 pages long. Jason Blair has a short blurb about it on his website already that offers an opinion on it https://jasonblair.net/.
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