Austria rejects Washington's requests to use its airspace for all Iran-related operations
Posted by ThevaramAcolytus@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 85 comments
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
Hopefully all these issues we are having with using our allies airspace will teach trump the value of respecting your allies. We have tried this isolationist bullshit many times, and it fails every time, because shit that happens on the other side of the world still affects us. Why people think this shit will work with how intertwined the modern world economy is is beyond me.
Imthewienerdog@reddit
It has worked thankfully for the rest of the world. The faster the American terrorist organization loses control over the world the better the world will become.
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
What do you think happens if we cede control over the rest of the world? Everyone lives happily ever after? No, global trade would be threatned and we owuld be replaced by china since russia nor the EU can replace us
Imthewienerdog@reddit
The Germans claimed the same... I'd prefer literally anything other than anything american.
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
why someone would prefer china over us is beyond me but ok
Imthewienerdog@reddit
Why would China have control over me? They have never threatened me?
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
if we lost our position as world leader, china would be the one to fill that power vaccum.
Imthewienerdog@reddit
You didn't answer the question?
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
yes i did, they would have control over you because they would become the premeire world power. Judging by the way they treat their own citizens i dont know why they would treat you any different
Imthewienerdog@reddit
You have yet to explain how? Saying random things that you heard in passing doesn't match the question.
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
in a world where they took our place as the global leading superpower, it is fair to assume that they would have the ability to limit your freedom of speech, like they do their own citizens. We certainly could if we wanted to, but we do not.
Imthewienerdog@reddit
How?
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
all of the most popular social media apps in canada are american. If we wanted to we could ban anyone who spoke poorly of us
Imthewienerdog@reddit
Oh no! Not a social media app whatever would happen! But what does that have to do with what China would do to have control over Canada?
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
if china was the world leading superpower, you would probably be using chinese social media, not US.
Imthewienerdog@reddit
I don't speak Chinese?
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
in english
Imthewienerdog@reddit
Okay? 👌 So you think who controls an app means they control a country? I dont follow?
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
If they control your media, they can limit oyur free speech. We control your media now and we could, but because we are not an authoritarian state that limits free speech like china, we dont
Imthewienerdog@reddit
If you don't think america limits your freedom of speech you're not talking in good faith. America influences every single democracy in the world. So does China, so does EU and Russia that's not what anyone means when they are talking about control?
America has control because if Canada Starts making nuclear weapons for defensive capabilities against another nuclear state america directly targets Canada and will militarily stop it. China cant. Iran can because China cant do anything about it.
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
maybe. but china limits it waay more
Imthewienerdog@reddit
How would it limit mine way more? You keep acting as if they will have the same control over our control as America does, and the only reason america does is simply because of its military might forcing us to not build up our defensive capabilities (look into arrow) China wouldn't have the same control over my country.
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
In a scenario where they where the leading world power a beleive they would.
Imthewienerdog@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/justincaseyoumissedit/s/0i9031vmkN
Professional-Syrup-0@reddit
Ah the “benevolent dictatorship”, such a novel and universally great concept.
da_longe@reddit
Have you heard or listened what comes out of the white house lately?
And why must someone be pro China if they criticize the 1000th pointless war which will result in thousands of deaths?
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
the white house lies and is not a reliable source. china is an authoritarian government.
Professional-Syrup-0@reddit
Yet the US has many more prisoners per capita than China does..
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
that does not make us an authoritarian state
Saorren@reddit
id post something as to why in a semi sarcastic maner but i no longer care enough to do more than this....
bradicality@reddit
good.jpg
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
you would prefer china?
DivideMind@reddit
Fairly competent authoritarian state with central planning vs. fairly incompetent authoritarian state lashing out randomly because it can't control its own spending? Yeah seems like a safer bet.
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
we are not an authoritarian state.
DivideMind@reddit
I'm sure there are those in China who believe the same.
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
difference is, those in china are objectivley wrong, like by definition
DivideMind@reddit
You're talking to someone directly affected by one of the many US involved genocides (technically still ongoing, as people who try to get any justice by physically arriving for appeals tend to disappear before court dates, among other dirty tactics i.e. entrapment so they can simply die in prison instead), I've seen what both countries regularly do internally and externally, they're both objectively bad actors. You're not going to convince anyone otherwise if they've so much as dedicated a tenth of a percent of their life to history and events.
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
ok thats a fair shout, we are not athouritarian though. I would argue however that most armed conflicts we have gotten into recently have been at least somewhat warranted. Which "genocide" are you talking about?
photochadsupremacist@reddit
Literally any reasonable person would prefer China. Do you have any actual arguments why someone should prefer the US over China?
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
china is an authoritarian state that opresses free speech
Saorren@reddit
have you looked in the mirror lately?
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
china does it to a much higher extent
MaestroRozen@reddit
Well, the global trade is currently being threatened. I'll give you one guess about which country is responsible for major shipping lines being closed, and it ain't Russia or China.Â
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
yeah, iran
mrdevlar@reddit
If you don't let the Americans behave like terrorists, the Russian terrorists win!
Perhaps we can say no to all the terrorists this time?
madsheeter@reddit
Best I can do is Chinese dictatorship
marshsmellow@reddit
Trump won't learn shitÂ
QuotableMorceau@reddit
well Austria is not part of NATO anyway, considering who US behaves under Trump, I am still surprised any airspace is still open for US in it's war with Iran
varky@reddit
I wouldn't expect Trump to know Austria isn't part of NATO 3 picoseconds after being told Austria isn't part of NATO.
patgeo@reddit
Let's face it, Australia is probably copping hate mail on Truth for blocking it.
Scottz0rz@reddit
I wouldn't either. I don't think sound in the air and electrical signals in the brain travel that fast.
Advanced-Net-8119@reddit
I mean most western nations hate iran, so its not too crazy
QuotableMorceau@reddit
hate ? ... neah ... concerned about the theocracy there ... for sure
skinny_t_williams@reddit
Trump is TRYING to isolate the USA. That's the whole point.
salted_toothpaste@reddit
Trump will probably die before learning something.
Rocktopod@reddit
Nobody thinks this will work. The plan is to break NATO apart so that Russia has more leverage in Europe.
Imthewienerdog@reddit
It is working? The rest of the world is clearly showing america they aren't going to have the same ability to cause terrorism.
Was it intentionally done for the benefit of America? Of course not because that's the goal.
HamunaHamunaHamuna@reddit
Since Austria isn't a part of NATO it seems unlikely that this is some masterful and purposeful plan to attack NATO, and rather a bunch of wannabe despots who idealize threats of violance as a tool for "diplomacy" finding out that few other people living in developed countries in this century agree with or bow down to their backwards worldview.
Majestic-Effort-541@reddit
People keep saying the US-EU fallout is temporary that things will go back to normal after Trump. But normal is gone you cannot un-ring this bell
what stops someone worse than Trump from winning in 2028, or 2032? Nothing.
The system that produced Trump can produce him again angrier, more organized with more cunning people around him. Every serious government in the world knows this.
PartySr@reddit
Gavin Newsom said "Trump is temporary" in a message to world leaders. The Democrats can't even guarantee if they will win in 2028, let alone in 2032. They can't even guarantee that they will the problems created by Trump. In fact, I doubt they will.
The democrats are busy insulting US leftists than fight against Trump anyway. The world can't stay still for 4 to 8 years whenever US votes for a maniac like Trump.
QuotableMorceau@reddit
The thing is EU has been hedging against the change in US politics for a while now, they are just incredibly slow ... when Biden was elected, the Democrat officials immediately messaged allies "US is back!" , the answer in Brussels was "Yeah , for how long".
Freud-Network@reddit
EU needs to get over its appeasement fetish. Then, the future is wide open.
Crouteauxpommes@reddit
We're slow to act, but once we start we don't go back on our words just 'cause.
That's the thing, we will uphold the deal we made with all the might and persistence of a bureaucratic behemoth. We went so far as to have 27 different interests to align on a project, once it's implemented we won't change a comma without the 27 agreeing once more.
Saorren@reddit
should ask those people if they rip a page out of a book and then tape it back in can they still say the book is undamaged?
i dont understand how those people who think like how you mentioned that its just a blip to wait out. the first one was a blip to put people on their toes, this was taking the floor out from under us all. not a single country has been untouched by what is going on right now and if it gets worse this could be a time in history that is taught in schools for centuries to come.
ChillAhriman@reddit
More importantly: the interests that have led the Trump administration to want to cannibalize Europe will remain there after Trump is gone.
US capital was already positioned itself pretty well during the prior era of US-built international order - but capital ALWAYS needs to keep expanding. Otherwise, it devolves into feudalism. So, once the previous order has been exhausted, both due to its own limits and due to the expansion of Chinese capital, US capital needs to find new avenues to grow. What's the easiest avenue? According to the Trump-aligned US oligarchs, squeezing margins from Europe. Forcing our administration to use their tech services, forcing our governments to increase military spending for their weapons, buying out our start-ups and incorporating them into US corporations - if all of that isn't enough, take territory from us so that they can exploit our natural resources without our regulations.
Once Trump is gone, corporate Democrats will eventually want to shake us down to the same degree he's been trying to, and post-Trump Republicans will remember his administration as an instructions manual.
big_cock_lach@reddit
The economy isn’t a zero-sum game. The US economy can expand without doing so at the expense of foreign nations or its own people. It just requires innovation and productivity growth. Until recently, that’s largely how the US expanded its economy, and it’s how China is currently doing so.
Countries rely on imperialism to grow their economy when they either a) run out of ways to grow their economy through innovation and/or b) want to have more powerful/influence. It doesn’t mean it’s the only way to achieve either of these goals though.
tankTanking1337@reddit
More people need to wake up to this. Disney adults aren't only in the US, Europe is full of sheep.
photochadsupremacist@reddit
Trump, the greatest anti-imperialist revolutionary of our time!
Nethlem@reddit
We've had these US-EU fallouts pretty regularly every decade for the last 3 decades or so.
Usually, it only takes a few years for most Western media/governments to move on and act like it all never happened (Iraq, Snowden, Trump) and we've always been best buddies and will forever be.
I mean, when Snowden blew the whistle on how Germany is helping the US to spy on most of the world, nobody was held accountable for that.
Instead, the EU decided to also send EU flight passenger data for free on-top, like some kind of reward for acting like the neo-Stasi.
Look at the Canadian premiere who a while ago called out the hypocrisy, only to later then still join in with it. All that stuff is just lip service because they know right now they can't control the narrative, it's all still too fresh, too much evidence for war crimes, no point in denying it so we get these weak admissions of the blatant hypocrisy.
But long term they will do the usual thing; Ride it out, let people move on to some other conflict, and in a year from now nobody will remember how Israel/US started it, but we will all remember the Iranian attacks and ignore how they were retaliatory.
Boysandberries0@reddit
Took us decades to build up these relationships. Long term? I see nations more hesitant to hosting US military bases.
Maybe even asking some of them closed.
the_pwnererXx@reddit
Usa spends a lot of money on European bases - with the expectation they get to use it. Europeans should think twice before yanking the rug, this road goes both ways
Smobey@reddit
I don't think USA has spent any money on Austrian bases, Einstđť…ąein
JonathanUpp@reddit
Austria does not have any us bases, and is not a part of nato, they have nothing to lose
bluecheese2040@reddit
Good. Personally I was.pleased.when jd Vance called out the UK and others for our dismal free speech record. Why? Cause while I didn't agree with all of it I was not butt hurt when a friend tried to set us straight. Its what friends do.
America is way off the reservation atm. Its gone all in with Israel and that's its perogative.
But it must be open to its friends calling it out. Again we are ultimately friends. Not starmer.and.trump or macron and trump...these are transient figures...but our nations.
So imo it would be the ultimate act of kindness if Europe put South African style apartheid style sanctions on Israel and banned us flights involved in gaza, supplying weapons to Israel beyond a limited set.of defensive arms or in any way involved in Iran.
Jack_Rannoch@reddit
Just saw the picture of the suspension bridge the US/Israel blew up. This is a valid response to that. I honestly can't think of reasons that warrant destroying such infrastructure, sure its dual use but this was primarily a bridge used by civilians.
If the US continues down this bellicose path they've chosen they'll starve themselves of sympathy let alone allies real quick.
merc08@reddit
You're from Switzerland and you don't understand the importance of blowing up bridges to isolate a country? Bold claim.
da_longe@reddit
The difference in doctrine being, Switzerland plans to destroy strategic bridges inside the country as opposed to do that on the other side of the globe.
merc08@reddit
Same outcomeÂ
Professional-Syrup-0@reddit
So you wouldn’t mind if I destroy your car instead of my car? Same outcome and all, there is damage and destruction, so it’s all the same, right?
Saorren@reddit
you might as well come out and tag yourself usa instead of hiding behind north america.
ThevaramAcolytus@reddit (OP)
Totally different situations. One is defense of oneself in one's own lands and the other is traveling across an ocean to invade another country on a different continent.
It's ludicrous to even place them in the same conversation in this context, as if one explains or justifies the other. It shouldn't come as a surprise that many view what is justified or would theoretically be justified defensively as entirely unjustifiable when taking place in a war of aggression against others in their own territory.
Nethlem@reddit
This is a very appropiate place for some very relevant central European post-WWII history about German reunification and Austrian neutrality, as Austria is not an "ally" of the US like some comments in here allege.
Everybody knows post-WWII Germany was occupied by a bunch of different Allied powers, France, UK, US and the USSR.
Out of those occupations emerged the Cold War split with two very separate, and opposting Germanys, two militant blocks in the form of first NATO and then the Warsaw Pact.
What very few people seem to remember: Austria was in a very similar place back then, occupied by all major allied powers. Yet Austria didn't end up as a frontline of the Cold War with two halfes antagonizing each other, instead it regained sovereignity already back in the 50s, how did that happen?
It happened because Austria took on a offer by Stalin for such a reunification, all Stalin wanted was that Austria remained neutral, and wouldn't host foreign troops. That was the basis for removing all foreign troops from Austria in the 50s, none have gone back since then, and Austria hasn't joined any military alliance like NATO either.
Worked well enough for Austria, while Germany had the very same offer on the table back then, to this day called the "Stalin note". Konrad Adenauer, first chancellor of West Germany, refused Stalins offer back then arguing it would leave too many Germans with too good of an opinion of Russia.
While Cold Warriors to this day argue the Stalin Note was all just a nefarious evil ploy by Stalin to somehow later backstab the "Free Democratic World", as if Austria didn't and doesn't serve as a very big counter case in point to this day.
And because of that nonsense we spent half a century with two different Germanys, families forced apart not by any wall, but by a political decission in West German Bonn, by people who prefered a "Westintegration" for the central European state of Germany over getting along with our Eastern European neighbours.
Sounds crass? Not at all, just look up Adenauer's actions and statements during the Nazi times, he used to endorse Hitler, he used to lick Nazi ass when they came for his pensions.
Look up Willy Brand's side-hustle as informant for the US, to this day he's considered the most renowed and "best" allegedly "leftist" (Social Democrat) chancellor of Germany, a paid American agent working for American interests.
For the same reason West Germany also ended up on all the wrong sides of history, it supported Apartheid South Africa, gave them nukes, to this day it supports Israel's genocide, also helped them get nukes. That's the "good" Germany that survived, the one that beat up and killed its own protesters for Middle Eastern dictators.
Meanwhile Austria has been trucking along just fine with its neutrality, even tho that's where Hitler actually came from, and even tho that Stalin offer for neutrality was supposed to be such a nasty trap.
As somebody who has lived on all three sides of that Cold War I do not think long-term history will judge the First World kindly for this, mostly because said history will likely be written by the second and third world.
fartingbeagle@reddit
Vienna was also divided among the Great Powers. There's a novel and film about the time called "The Third Man".
Kameleon_XNI-02@reddit
Happened before and the usa gave no shit about it. Obviously no consequences followed. Unless europe steps up its mic production SIGNIFICANTLY and throws out american troops from our continent, we will remain the good vassals as the usa wants us to be.
Express_Spirit_3350@reddit
Its not even funny how much people blurred the line between "defensive capabilities ensuring sovereignty" and "power projection".