When should I switch from my working jib to a storm jib in building wind?
Posted by raidenth@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 39 comments
I was out last weekend in my 30 foot sloop and the wind started building from 18 knots gusting to around 28. I had a reef in the main and was using my standard 110% jib, but the boat was getting a bit tender and hard to handle. I don't have a dedicated storm jib yet, but I'm considering buying one for safety.
For those who sail in similar conditions, at what wind speed do you typically make the switch from a working jib to a smaller staysail or storm jib? I'm trying to find the balance between keeping boat speed and staying safe when singlehanding. Any advice on how to tell when it's time to swap headsails would be great.
LuckyErro@reddit
I sail a lot on a 24ftr. We use a selection of gibs but id normally want the number 2 up depending on point of sail etc at 20 knots. So far ive seen 39 knots on a 33 ft'r but haven't been on a boat that has the storm sail on yet.
murmurat1on@reddit
My dear grandpa always said "if you're thinking about doing it, it's time to do it." So, around then I guess.
Bikkleman@reddit
Maybe just a UK thing, but we complete that wisdom with, "if you're thinking about taking a reef out, have a cup of tea" :)
Brave-Entrance7475@reddit
I'm gonna use that one, thanks bro
rhbvkleef@reddit
Huh, my wise sources say that "if you're thinking about doing it, you're too late".
murmurat1on@reddit
Maybe it should be "if you're thinking about it" rather than "thinking about doing it".
E.g "ooh that wind is starting to feel a bit fruity, maybe I'll pop a reef in soon." equals "put a reef in now"
Brave-Entrance7475@reddit
Reef early. Reef often.
Beyond platitudes, I douse the main and run full jib n jack at 15. Reduce to 2/3 jib n jack when side decks get wet. Reduce to 1/3rd "" when side decks get wet. Reduce to handkerchief jib no mizzen around 45-50. That number reads high, so. Maybe at 40 lol.
Then, unless Lee shore or etc, I backwind the jib and pin helm over - hove to. Go downstairs, change into dry PJs, mattress on floor, beef teriyaki noodles and navionics, or a snooze.
Mediocre-Tough-4341@reddit
Convert to roller furling. You will have infinite reefing possibilities with your jib.
Also consider adding a 2nd or even 3rd reef point in your main
frankwemissyou@reddit
A word of caution on reefing a roller furling jib- take a hard look at the size and condition of your jib furling line. It’s sometimes smaller than the jib sheets and probably pretty old since it usually doesn’t do much. But in a reefed state it’s taking the same load as the sheets, trying to keep the jib partially wrapped. I had a friend in Cape Cod Bay trying to make Boston in the big fall northwesterlies when the undersized jib furler parted under that load it doesn’t usually see, fully deploying the jib with no easy way to take it in. That meant a crew needed to sit up on a heaving bow in building seas, hand rolling sail in a couple inches at a time with flailing jib sheets raining down on her as the boat ran downwind to unload some of the pressure. They were lucky only losing a hat.
strangersadvice@reddit
Early
SVAuspicious@reddit
I have a cutter-rigged sloop so my storm jib is rigged on the inner forestay whenever I go offshore. My working jib is on the roller furler.
On my boat, the reefing order is main 1st, main 2nd, main 3rd, then roll up the jib and fly the storm sail, then strike the main and sail on the storm sail alone. What works best for me with the sails well trimmed is to use average (not peak) rudder angle as the primary indicator to reef. When the average is above ten degrees I reef. I could go to fifteen degrees but heel angle becomes uncomfortable.
4runner01@reddit
Storm jib goes up once it’s a sustained 30+ knots of wind.
Pumbaasliferaft@reddit
Before you need to
I’ve switched to storm sails in late afternoon with glassy seas before
You don’t change in the storm, you change before
lbthomsen@reddit
That's the answer ;) By the time you _really_ find out you will be swimming so better to err on the side of caution.
Moondance_sailor@reddit
This I’ve shortened sail to nothing and rigged full safety lines. my crew thought I was crazy. 2 hours later it was blowing 55 and we were hove to for the night with heavy rain. Never slept better as a captain than that night.
Moondance_sailor@reddit
This I’ve shortened sail to nothing and rigged full safety lines. my crew thought I was crazy. 2 hours later it was blowing 55 and we were hove to for the night with heavy rain. Never slept better as a captain than that night.
gremblor@reddit
110% is more like a Genoa (#2) than a working jib (#3). The latter would be about 85--90%, and is a very helpful tool in the arsenal. Depends on the boat but 20 kts or so is a good breakpoint to switch over to that. ("same time you reef the main" is a good rule of thumb. "As soon as anyone asks 'hey should we switch down', the answer is always yes" is another.)
A storm jib (#4 or #5) is usually very small, and intended more for gale force winds than high 20s.
If your Genoa is on a roller furler, you can also put a few turns in that and reduce it to 90% or so. That is usually good for balance any time you reef the main, so that the load forces ahead and behind the center of mass change to keep it aligned with the center of effort.
smedlap@reddit
Reef early, and often!
sfigone@reddit
On my 30 footer I have 3 jibs and then a storm sail. So don't go from 110% to storm jib, have at least one sail in between.
If you have hanked on jib, consider a slab reefing jib which can be great for short squalls.
vulkoriscoming@reddit
Every time I have reefed, I have been happy I did. The boat is way more upright and never loses speed. Often I gained speed upwind by reefing because I am much flatter.
I think for most boats, you should probably reef around 18-20 knots.
-Maris-@reddit
The second you have a hunch that you might want it.
northerfart@reddit
It's always easier to put out more sail
HealthyHappyHarry@reddit
On my 30’ I’d be using a heavily reefed 110 and double reefed main or just the 110. And at 28 knots I would reef the 110 by 65% with no main.
Make yourself a spreadsheet of sail combinations versus wind speed. Force varies as the square of speed. Your base case should be knots of wind that feels safe and comfortable with full main and 110%. For example 14 knots with full jib of 303 sq ft and full main of 222 sq ft. Force is (222+303)*14^2 =102,900.
So knots = (main + Jib)^0.5 or Sail area = 102900/(knots)^2
20 knots need 257 sq ft 28 knots need 131 sq ft
Build a table at different wind speeds and find sail area. Then look at different reefed main and reefed jib combinations
For me at 28 knots I would need a deeply reefed jib of 130 sq ft with no main.
Raneynickelfire@reddit
When you realize the rudder doesn't work anymore - you've waited too long.
H0LD_FAST@reddit
Really boat and condition dependent. Despite being a "heavy cruiser" going upwind at 25kts apparent we can do 6.5 kts with 2 reefs and the staysail. At 19-22 kts apparent at 45-50 AWA the other day, 2 reefs and about 110% genoa (furled in so shape was bad) the helm was balanced ok but we were still heeling quite a bit. Any more wind and we would have just went to the staysail
dwkfym@reddit
just like reefing - when you're thinking about it.
Small_Dog_8699@reddit
When ya think of it.
DarkKnightOfDisorder@reddit
Change and reef earlier than you think you need to. When conditions worsen, you’ll be glad you’re prepared. If they don’t, it’s easy to shake a reef out or change back up.
You really shouldn’t be worried about boat speed if you’re consider using a storm sail. With smaller sails, your boat will heel less, be easier to trim, and suffer less weather/lee helm, all of which would help you sail more efficiently.
carchadon@reddit
This is so boat and sailor dependent. Some boats have a responsive enough rig that you can keep them on their feet in 25 knots with full sail, some boats you need to reef early as you don’t have other options to shed power. Some people are comfortable sailing overpowered, others want to be able to just have the boat take care of herself.
_Schrodingers_Gat_@reddit
"You reduce sail the first time it's mentioned, and you don't put any more up until after you've made tea." - Lou
djrstar@reddit
Every body is right. The time to shorten sail is a few minutes before you wonder if you should.
IndyBananaJones2@reddit
Try reefing earlier, it has surprisingly little effect on most boats speed in those sort of conditions. If the boat is getting harder to handle then you're probably developing weather helm and should reef. You might find you don't go any slower.
pdq_sailor@reddit
The answer to your question varies with the boat you have and how its configured.. What it comes down to is how large or small your foretriangle is relative to.your main sail in combination wit how stiff your boat is.. Stiffness or more accurately righting moment is dependent upon how much sail you carry, how sail area is split on your boat, relative sizes of your main vs your Genoa...and this varied a great deal....how much ballast you have, how the keel is configured eg draft , shape, if it has a bulb or wing at the bottom ...how heavy and how tall your mast is relative to the keel...
When heel angle approaches or exceeds 25 degrees you are carrying too much sail area.. if your sail plan is more main sail area than working jib yes you first reef your main sail... in our case we have a huge foretriangle and a smaller main sail so we do not reef when carrying both sails until about 25 knots carrying a full hoist #3 Genoa... about the time we reef we have a choice...our #3 has a slab reef in it also so we can lower the sail to the reefed position lowering the centre of effort... the tack is lowered the sheets move up the leach to the new lowered or reefed position .. this is dramatically superior to rolling up part of the sail with the furling head foil... which takes as much area off the bottom of the sail as it does from the top... We have but now no longer need or carry a #4 Jib... which is 80 percent of the foretriangle area as the reefed #3 is probably less than 80%... The combination of a reefed main and reefed #3 is good to about 50 knots going to windward.. and higher winds if cracked off to a reach... Boats heel more going to windward than they do reaching or down wind.. Then there ar the other options of sailing with either a Genoa or a main sail... my choice when this happens is to use the main vs the Genoa..
A few years ago I put a new mast in our boat that is 1/3rd lighter than our OEM mast was.. this had the effect of making our boat much stiffer than it was previously - that change reduced heel angle by an average of seven degrees... However it's an expensive fix so few people would consider doing it.
Last season I took the boat out in our clubs sail past in winds exceeding 40 knots and elected to go with just the main sail as we exceeded seven knots of boat speed with the full main sail rigged.. yet heel angle was minimal on a reach... I normally do NOT take the boat our with my family on board in winds exceeding over twenty knots because they do not like getting wet.. and once waves and wind exceed this level the spray can fly aft far enough to get them wet..
So the answer to your question is.. it depends on a whole lot of things.. Even how much freeboard your boat carries makes a difference ... a boat low in freeboard heels less than one that has less freeboard.. - the height of hull off the water... Beam is another issue.. narrow boats vs winder boats and under water configuration as well..... Stiffness or righting moment is straight physics.. the balance between Centre of effort and centre of resistance plus a whole lot more like mast height and weight relative to the amount of ballast you boat has in the keel... ...
mootmutemoat@reddit
Nice modification!
mifter123@reddit
If you are asking if the wind is getting too high for your working jib, you should have already switched to the storm jib.
Don't wait, it's so much more work to swap the sails in high winds, then it is to swap before.
Always err on the side of safety, it's doubly important if you are solo.
One-Payment434@reddit
Change about 15 minutes before you start wondering if you should change ;) It becomes harder to reef/change jib in increasing winds, so it is better to change early. If it turns out that it was only a small gust and the wind doesn't increase you can always considering changing back. Remember, safety is much more important than boatspeed
Another observation is that in my experience you don't loose boat speed in these situations, but you do get better boat handling.
Morgan_Pen@reddit
If you’re at the point of reefing the main, you should be changing to a smaller headsail, otherwise your sail plan can get unbalanced. 28 kts is way too much wind for a 110 so you should be dropping to a storm jib before you get there.
Land_of_smiles@reddit
You need to be pro active with the sails and trim and make your moves before you get caught in the wind and it’s too late. That’s when things break and people get hurt.
ride5k@reddit
basically watch your heel angle.
of course if it looks foreboding then don't wait to be knocked down!