Toshiba begins sampling of 30-34 TB Nearline SMR HDDs (11-disk M12 series)
Posted by Constellation16@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 13 comments
Posted by Constellation16@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 13 comments
Constellation16@reddit (OP)
30-34TB SMR "sampling now", 28TB CMR sampling in Q3. Uses new 11-platter platform (+1) made out of now. Previous 'M11' series highest capacity was 28/24 TB (at least publicly known).
No-Improvement-8316@reddit
eww.
Anyway, it’s good to know they’ve finally moved from aluminum platters to glass ones in 3.5-inch HDDs. Glass has almost only advantages compared to aluminum. Except the price.
sunxore@reddit
I have made peace with smr by using btrfs. Works fine I think.
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
what? you are using drive managed smr drives deliberately?
what?
i can't even find shingled drives at or above 10 TB listed in geizhals.
and the cheapest smr drive when selecting any capacity is an 8 TB seagate insult with 25.7 euros/TB!!!
for comparison a 14 TB wd elements external drive, which you can shuck easily costs 285 euros and is at about 20 euros/TB.
so how in the world did you end up with what i assume is drive managed smr drives?
are you managing storage in a datacenter and use host managed smr?
because if you are a consumer it makes negative sense to EVER EVER use any drive managed smr insults.
they cost SIGNIFICANTLY MORE. they have more power consumption (idle power usage, where cmr cache gets dumped onto smr for example)
they have latency spikes up to 1 second and they crawl to below 10 MB/s sustained writes in certain cases.
and very crucially the 14 TB wd elements is on a reliable wd helium platform. we assume, that those are oversupply/bad yields from the data center drives. and the datacenter drives have a proven very good reliablity for the 14 TB drives.
a seagate smr drive? well we don't have data on that, because no sane person would run a drive managed smr drive in their storage setup.
backblaze isn't doing that. maybe they'll run host managed smr in the future, who knows, but rightnow they are not and they certainly won't ever run drive managed smr drives.
so i honestly curious why you went with smr insults and why you paid the same or more for smr insults?
doscomputer@reddit
Just because you're ignorant and scared of solving a problem doesn't mean other people are? You're the only person in this entire thread who thinks its an issue.
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
the person above me and you literally responded to smr with:
and in while you certainly can argue for bots in reddit and likes are not a good indicitator whether someone is true, but you said "i'm the only person in this entire thread who thinks its an issue", yet the comment above by me got 1 like, certainly not from you and another comment, where i added a serverthehome reference got 5 likes.
so the people, who are here and are reading this thread certainly seem to be interested to learn of the many issues of smr and at bare minimum appreciate well made explanations of the issues.
i'd strongly argue, that you are in the minority defending smr here.
and you are in the minority claiming, that it isn't an issue.
and worth remembering, that what you think, or what i think or what other people think doesn't change what the facts are, so it is weird, that you tried to make it about this.
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my comment had general curiosity why you decided to use smr, despite it not being cheaper for the average consumer to buy at all and having all those downsides.
it is weird, that you decided to not answer those questions, but instead called me ignorant and scared....
in fact were i ignorant, then shouldn't you give a proper response, that explains your decision making as requrested, instead of becoming very defensive?
very weird response.
it seems, that other people in this thread are interested to learn, yet you prefer to become defense, when asking things.
i suggest to change this for your own good overall.
Constellation16@reddit (OP)
It's HM-SMR, not "consumer SMR". It's not a problem for these datacenter use cases.
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
it is however a problem as those drives will be e-waste after user and can't be sold as used drives after a wipe.
i'd consider that a real problem. i mean datacenters probably don't give a shit about that though of course.
dstanton@reddit
I'd imagine it's actually a decent revenue loss. Unless they're just letting IT scrap the drives now, which seems unlikely.
Used enterprise drives are still selling for $10-15/tb and Data centers turnover 1000s of drives.
Tumleren@reddit
How come?
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
if the drives are hybrid drives, that can be set in firmware to be drive managed smr, instead of host managed smr, then it would be possible to wipe them and sell them used.
if they are just host managed smr, then no average consumer can ever use them, because host managed smr requires the host to fully manage the smr tech.
this is not sth, that any standard system does.
people don't have storage servers designed for host managed smr at home, or i guess some engineer, who also handles this on top of it, because again this isn't designed to be consumer facing, but data center facing.
so host managed smr is PURELY for servers.
so once those drives would get replaced in the data center they then can't be used by an average consumer.
now one may not want to buy used drives anyways, but let's say a company dumps 500 14 TB wd helium drives, that only got used for 2 years onto the used market, that surely would be fine to use. run zfs with being able to tolerate 2 drive failures and you got a great cheap setup.
well with host managed smr those drives can only go into the dumpster, because you don't have a storage server setup to manage host managed smr drives.
__
so as the average consumer you want smr either host managed or drive managed to just not exist at all.
host managed smr in datacenters can make sense for datacenters, but it means 0 resell value, so it is bad for the used market.
and drive managed smr is purely a scam to screw over customers.
and just for the fun of it, here is a drive managed smr drive resilvering raidz:
https://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/SMR-RAIDZ-Rebuild-v2.png
a 4 TB drive resilvering for 10 days :D and that is a case where it finished and didn't fail completely during it...
i just love this graph so much :D
Tuna-Fish2@reddit
Who do you think purchases used datacenter drives? Any hobbyist with Linux and btrfs can use them.
Jeep-Eep@reddit
Depending on the endurance uplifts from that and elsewhere I'd be less iffy about buying reconditioned ex-datacenter units too.