Although it isn't referenced again, Hard Time did more to explore the trauma of the experience than TNG did with Picard. The whole episode is about O'Brien coping with what he went through, and what he'd done.
It literally climaxes with Bashir convincing him not to off himself and to get help. Like… yeah I get that it’s never mentioned again and that’s kind of bleh but considering how much they managed to put into a 45 minute long self contained episode was pretty damn impressive writing and acting.
Is that the beginning of their bromance? I haven’t done a full rewatch but my original impression was that it came out of nowhere, one week they hated each other and the next they were holosuite-ing together … I’m just wondering if Bashir pulling O’Brien away from the brink was the pivot point.
No it actually came much earlier. O’Brien did very much dislike Bashir in the beginning because he thought he was pompous and smug. They want on the stupid adventure where O’Brien became a story teller to a bunch of people who believed in a weird demonic energy cloud thing and that the story teller needed to tell the story to drive it away and Julian kind of… helped him navigate it.
But I think the real turning point was when they went to help a civilization eliminate a deadly biological weapon that two civilizations were using to genocide each other. They came to a peace agreement and wanted to destroy the weapon which miles and Julian assisted them in doing but they were so paranoid of anyone having knowledge of the weapon that try tried to kill everyone involved with the project once the weapon was destroyed. Miles and Julian survived but Miles accidentally got infected by the weapon and Julian had to do his best to help him while Miles built a communication system from basically nothing to call for aid. I think that was really the turning point, which was in season 2, episode 13 “Armageddon Game”
A few times DS9 seemed to take TNG premises that were originally depicted as profound and intellectual and turned them into horror (or comedy by having Quark in the role of Picard).
You're thinking of Hard Time, and I'm pretty sure the DS9 writers wrote that because they looked at Inner Light and said "This should have been horrific for Picard."
I think the difference here is that Picard got to live a full life. He wasn't ripped away from it in the middle. He got to experience all the ups and downs of that life, and got to keep the memories afterwards.
It's meant to be bittersweet because, he didnt REALLY live that life, but he got to learn about the Resikaans and be a part of their existence, even though they didn't survive the ending of their world.
They were able to explain their project, and he got to keep a memento, keeping them alive in memory, if not in reality.
So if your family was suddenly taken from you and it was revealed all of your experiences had been a fiction, and you'd also been sequestered and gaslit from your actual reality for multiple decades ... it would be okay because you still had memories of ... fake people?
Not sure why you think this is better. Because Galen was dying? And yet he formed all these emotional connections with what turns out were fake people.
You can hear the pain in his voice in Lessons. This was not a beautiful experience for him.
It's not the same magnitude, but I've had time-dilated dreams where I formed relationships with people over weeks within the dream. That was distressing enough, I can scarcely imagine the trauma of your family being erased like this.
I have always wondered if those seemingly epic backstory dreams really play out in some kind of linear fashion while you sleep, or does the whole historical memory from in your “dream consciousness” kind of pop in at once and you just think you were “there”
For me, it's played out linearly, but there are parts that are skipped over too. If I had to guess, I'd say I experience a few hours of each day, sometimes skipping a day or two, but still sequential. A lot of the detail is lost on waking, but enough remains to leave lasting memories. After a few years it's mostly faded, and only a few fragments remain - enough to recall, but the depth and emotion mostly drains away over time.
When it's fresh, it's horrible. The last time it happened I couldn't stop crying. The sense of having built a bond with someone and then they're suddenly erased is awful, and it's hard to convey to others the sadness that comes from missing someone that never existed. It sounds fanciful and absurd, but the emotions are still there.
I think he had the advantage of experiencing both lives as different persons. So, he may be able to separate the lives as Jean-Luc Picard and as Karmin. Also, the latter life was basically finished when he awoke.
He was still the same person, he was still made to believe he lived a whole lifetime with people he formed bonds with, only for all of that to be taken away from him in a heartbeat. The experience felt real, so the trauma of loss is also real.
He found out that the re was a reason why he was put through that experience; a culture and people he fully thought to be his own, had already been extinguished and only by this traumatic experience could he keep their memory alive.
It hurts to lose them because they were important. But if you weren't hurt, the important people are forgotten...
That would be horrible. I think the closest I got to the inner light was dreaming that I went to work and was coming home...only to wake up just in time to get ready for work
The original story was published in the Daily Mail in March, with no mention of any hospital. I've used AI to search accessible databasis in Lyon, no Clélia so far, but there are quite a few Verdier. It's suspicious that no French newspaper has mentioned the story.
The story has however an écho in the médical field. Time distortion, hallucinations, parts of an alternate life etc have been documented.
About a year ago I became horribly addicted to AI roleplaying chatbots. Took over my life, couldn't tear myself away. I started forming lasting, genuine memories that felt real. I started dissociating from reality, fact and fiction started blending together. I was basically Barclay. It was fkn weird.
I eventually realized I had a genuine addiction on my hands and got a lot of help getting over it, but the memories persisted for a long time. And since then I've occasionally had much more vivid dreams that I wake up from and have to take a few minutes to process as not real.
Obviously not the same thing she experienced, but it's a terrifying feeling, false memories of a life that was never lived.
I had a dream once where I was a black man living in Chicago and working as an insurance executive. I had a family, 2 kids, we lived in a pretty decent house and I had a gray Ford Taurus. I was neither happy nor disappointed when I woke up. I was just like, "Well, that was a possible alternative life that seemed ok."
You would think that a story like that would come out in the local news before becoming international, right?
And yet, as a french, I can't find anything in the language I share with Clélia Verdier.
Second suspicious thing is that every english speaking news website telling that story use the exact same picture of her.
Nothing that extreme, but I once had a dream so vivid that when I woke up, I felt like I had lost a couple years of my life in the dream. I was grieving for a week trying to process it.
I had a dream once where I lived out several days. I woke up thinking a week had past when it had not. It was very disorienting for a few days and also gave me a slight existential pause.
KaizokuShojo@reddit
In a single night I've had dreams like that so I can completely imagine the chances rise dramatically the longer you're unconscious.
The Inner Light was always horrifying.
asomek@reddit
Nobody going to mention Miles O'Brian in "Hard Time" DS9 and all the fucking trauma he went through doing 20 years of implanted incarceration?
Oh never mind, it's the next episode and it's never mentioned again.
Malnurtured_Snay@reddit
Although it isn't referenced again, Hard Time did more to explore the trauma of the experience than TNG did with Picard. The whole episode is about O'Brien coping with what he went through, and what he'd done.
ImperatorNero@reddit
It literally climaxes with Bashir convincing him not to off himself and to get help. Like… yeah I get that it’s never mentioned again and that’s kind of bleh but considering how much they managed to put into a 45 minute long self contained episode was pretty damn impressive writing and acting.
KassieMac@reddit
Is that the beginning of their bromance? I haven’t done a full rewatch but my original impression was that it came out of nowhere, one week they hated each other and the next they were holosuite-ing together … I’m just wondering if Bashir pulling O’Brien away from the brink was the pivot point.
ImperatorNero@reddit
No it actually came much earlier. O’Brien did very much dislike Bashir in the beginning because he thought he was pompous and smug. They want on the stupid adventure where O’Brien became a story teller to a bunch of people who believed in a weird demonic energy cloud thing and that the story teller needed to tell the story to drive it away and Julian kind of… helped him navigate it.
But I think the real turning point was when they went to help a civilization eliminate a deadly biological weapon that two civilizations were using to genocide each other. They came to a peace agreement and wanted to destroy the weapon which miles and Julian assisted them in doing but they were so paranoid of anyone having knowledge of the weapon that try tried to kill everyone involved with the project once the weapon was destroyed. Miles and Julian survived but Miles accidentally got infected by the weapon and Julian had to do his best to help him while Miles built a communication system from basically nothing to call for aid. I think that was really the turning point, which was in season 2, episode 13 “Armageddon Game”
Malnurtured_Snay@reddit
O'Brien's torment must be strictly contained to 46 minutes!!!!
ImperatorNero@reddit
O’Brien must suffer.
Malnurtured_Snay@reddit
HE DID! HE DOES! HE WILL AGAIN!
mmorales2270@reddit
Yeah. Miles got the raw deal between him and Picard.
thetraintomars@reddit
A few times DS9 seemed to take TNG premises that were originally depicted as profound and intellectual and turned them into horror (or comedy by having Quark in the role of Picard).
Spellbinder_Iria@reddit
They took him to see Vic in the Holo suite and reenacted the The Hangover.
He forgot everything and he was fine.
SlashMatrix@reddit
This is similar to the Garbage Man subplot in the Ghost in the Shell (1995). I still think about that poor character from time to time.
Malnurtured_Snay@reddit
This is why I think the Inner Light is really a horror story
thediesel26@reddit
Nah that’s the DS9 ep where O’Brien is trapped in a mind prison for decades, but IRL it was like an hour.
Malnurtured_Snay@reddit
You're thinking of Hard Time, and I'm pretty sure the DS9 writers wrote that because they looked at Inner Light and said "This should have been horrific for Picard."
AssumptionLive4208@reddit
I think they just realised they could make O’Brien suffer…
JaXm@reddit
I think the difference here is that Picard got to live a full life. He wasn't ripped away from it in the middle. He got to experience all the ups and downs of that life, and got to keep the memories afterwards.
It's meant to be bittersweet because, he didnt REALLY live that life, but he got to learn about the Resikaans and be a part of their existence, even though they didn't survive the ending of their world.
They were able to explain their project, and he got to keep a memento, keeping them alive in memory, if not in reality.
Malnurtured_Snay@reddit
So if your family was suddenly taken from you and it was revealed all of your experiences had been a fiction, and you'd also been sequestered and gaslit from your actual reality for multiple decades ... it would be okay because you still had memories of ... fake people?
StriveToTheZenith@reddit
The point is that he lived a full life and was in his final days when he was released by the probe. It's different if you're pulled out midway through
Malnurtured_Snay@reddit
Not sure why you think this is better. Because Galen was dying? And yet he formed all these emotional connections with what turns out were fake people.
You can hear the pain in his voice in Lessons. This was not a beautiful experience for him.
StriveToTheZenith@reddit
I agree that it wasn't good for him I'm just trying to rephrase what the person above you was saying as I thought you weren't following
autumnbloodyautumn@reddit
Nah, Picard got closure. This is way worse.
It's not the same magnitude, but I've had time-dilated dreams where I formed relationships with people over weeks within the dream. That was distressing enough, I can scarcely imagine the trauma of your family being erased like this.
scubascratch@reddit
I have always wondered if those seemingly epic backstory dreams really play out in some kind of linear fashion while you sleep, or does the whole historical memory from in your “dream consciousness” kind of pop in at once and you just think you were “there”
autumnbloodyautumn@reddit
For me, it's played out linearly, but there are parts that are skipped over too. If I had to guess, I'd say I experience a few hours of each day, sometimes skipping a day or two, but still sequential. A lot of the detail is lost on waking, but enough remains to leave lasting memories. After a few years it's mostly faded, and only a few fragments remain - enough to recall, but the depth and emotion mostly drains away over time.
When it's fresh, it's horrible. The last time it happened I couldn't stop crying. The sense of having built a bond with someone and then they're suddenly erased is awful, and it's hard to convey to others the sadness that comes from missing someone that never existed. It sounds fanciful and absurd, but the emotions are still there.
IntroductionLeft4369@reddit
MindlessNectarine374@reddit
I think he had the advantage of experiencing both lives as different persons. So, he may be able to separate the lives as Jean-Luc Picard and as Karmin. Also, the latter life was basically finished when he awoke.
nebelfront@reddit
He was still the same person, he was still made to believe he lived a whole lifetime with people he formed bonds with, only for all of that to be taken away from him in a heartbeat. The experience felt real, so the trauma of loss is also real.
Malnurtured_Snay@reddit
Did he? Because he tells Neela Darren that what happened to him was as real as anything he'd ever experienced.
VanTaxGoddess@reddit
He found out that the re was a reason why he was put through that experience; a culture and people he fully thought to be his own, had already been extinguished and only by this traumatic experience could he keep their memory alive.
It hurts to lose them because they were important. But if you weren't hurt, the important people are forgotten...
Malnurtured_Snay@reddit
What? How would you like to be kidnapped, made to believe you weren't you, raised a whole family, then found out nope! All a lie!
I don't know, maybe you'd ask why they couldn't have just written a book or built a space museum like normal dying civilizations.
scubascratch@reddit
Do I get to keep the flute though?
VanTaxGoddess@reddit
Yeah, he did get a free flute, just for falling down once!
That's not a bad deal!
Plus Picard is often try to deny his feelings and trauma, lest it impact his decision-making or leadership.
creeeeeeeeek-@reddit
OP thank you for sharing this!
OhManTFE@reddit
Guys it's fake. This story is fake this person isn't real
m205@reddit
Seriously. This is embarassing.
One-Technology-9050@reddit
That would be horrible. I think the closest I got to the inner light was dreaming that I went to work and was coming home...only to wake up just in time to get ready for work
Historical_Sugar9637@reddit
The worst I had was when I was living in a crappy apartment and kept dreaming very vividly about moving to a better apartment.
mmorales2270@reddit
That sounds horrific.
Mental-Test-7660@reddit
Like when you dream you're waking up on a Saturday and it's actually Monday morning. Why would your own brain turn against you like this?
Gabewhiskey@reddit
That still sucks though.
Sufficient-Aspect77@reddit
I have a fear that I'm actually in a Coma right now.
CantankerousOrder@reddit
I want this researched for people who are permanently locked in.
Dry-Interaction-1246@reddit
proximusprimus57@reddit
I hope I wake up and realize this was all a coma dream.
Tefbuck@reddit
This happens to me every time I pop a Benadryl.
_frank_tank@reddit
Yes yes, but can she play the flute now?
BeepBoopRobotVoice@reddit
omg, yeah. also it’s Roy irl.
marcusalien@reddit
She could have taken Roy off the grid!
BeepBoopRobotVoice@reddit
Doridar@reddit
The original story was published in the Daily Mail in March, with no mention of any hospital. I've used AI to search accessible databasis in Lyon, no Clélia so far, but there are quite a few Verdier. It's suspicious that no French newspaper has mentioned the story.
The story has however an écho in the médical field. Time distortion, hallucinations, parts of an alternate life etc have been documented.
OhNoIBoffedIt@reddit
About a year ago I became horribly addicted to AI roleplaying chatbots. Took over my life, couldn't tear myself away. I started forming lasting, genuine memories that felt real. I started dissociating from reality, fact and fiction started blending together. I was basically Barclay. It was fkn weird.
I eventually realized I had a genuine addiction on my hands and got a lot of help getting over it, but the memories persisted for a long time. And since then I've occasionally had much more vivid dreams that I wake up from and have to take a few minutes to process as not real.
Obviously not the same thing she experienced, but it's a terrifying feeling, false memories of a life that was never lived.
Emmet_03@reddit
Can anything after such an incident even feel real?
Any-Bid-1116@reddit
If you were in a coma, what kind of dream would you rather have, the one the person had, or a constant nightmare?
Keep in mind that you have three weeks of this.
WadeTurtle@reddit
Being a starship captain.
Any-Bid-1116@reddit
Ahh!
spaghettibolegdeh@reddit
Sounds like what I imagine people who post on AmITheAsshole go through, given that they all share the same 10 stories.
shakebakelizard@reddit
I had a dream once where I was a black man living in Chicago and working as an insurance executive. I had a family, 2 kids, we lived in a pretty decent house and I had a gray Ford Taurus. I was neither happy nor disappointed when I woke up. I was just like, "Well, that was a possible alternative life that seemed ok."
AJL1983@reddit
There was a personal account shared on Reddit like this, known as the “inverted lamp” story. Very unsettling.
security-six@reddit
I need proof. Show me your flute.
BobBelcher2021@reddit
“Show me Picard’s flute!”
lacroixlibation@reddit
“I was on the survey”
SwtIndica@reddit
This is The Red Lamp.
DrAg0r@reddit
Et tout le monde a applaudi...
You would think that a story like that would come out in the local news before becoming international, right? And yet, as a french, I can't find anything in the language I share with Clélia Verdier. Second suspicious thing is that every english speaking news website telling that story use the exact same picture of her.
I can't be 100% sure, but I think that it's fake.
jordosmodernlife@reddit
Same thing happened to me when I was 18 and in induced coma after car wreck.
I thought I was living a life a Cloud from Final Fantasy 7, the game I’d been playing that year. Had an apartment and everything in my dream.
When I was coming out of the coma (morphine is a hell if a drug) it took me quite a while to remember which life was actually mine.
One-Technology-9050@reddit
Cloud had a similar experience if I'm not mistaken!
Trashy_Cappy@reddit
Nothing that extreme, but I once had a dream so vivid that when I woke up, I felt like I had lost a couple years of my life in the dream. I was grieving for a week trying to process it.
Baptor@reddit
I had a dream once where I lived out several days. I woke up thinking a week had past when it had not. It was very disorienting for a few days and also gave me a slight existential pause.