Proxmox is a $50 million company now with 200% annual growth

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evolooshun@reddit

VMware might have something to do with that.

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Forgotmyaccount1979@reddit

This is the Steam version of growing your business, Proxmox just has to not purposefully make their product worse while everyone else does what Broadcom is doing.

[-]

Always gives me a good chuckle when I see the “Steam is a monopoly” argument come up. I’m not aware of anything anti-competitive they’ve ever done, other than just being consistent at not being total shit.

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dk_DB@reddit

I fear the day, Gaben dies. It might go to shit then.

On tge other habd - everyone working there supposedly makes money hand over fist. So they might continue being great.

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A_Curious_Cockroach@reddit

Isn't steam annually toward the top of average salaries per employee or something?

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stillpiercer_@reddit

Valve is the company with the highest revenue-to-employee ratio in the world. I believe “everyone” (maybe not maintenance staff, etc.) makes over $1M. Only a few hundred employees.

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segagamer@reddit

I'm actually just waiting for that to happen. People will hopefully then realise that putting all of their eggs in one basket was a bad idea.

[-]

r0ndr4s@reddit

I would love for you to actually explain this cause your argument below is "gog,xbox,etc" are fine.

And not a single one of the stores you mentioned, or companies, has a working client/store for as many years as Valve has that lets you access ALL of your stuff, offers free cloud, free video/image storage, forums, communities,etc

And your idea of a better solution is "have everything spread out in this other not so good clients/stores". Dude...

[-]

segagamer@reddit

I would love for you to actually explain this cause your argument below is "gog,xbox,etc" are fine.

Because they are fine. Steam communities are largely toxic anyway, so the less interaction with them (forums whatever) the better.

And your idea of a better solution is "have everything spread out in this other not so good clients/stores".

What's "not so good" about them? They sell, install and play games, with free cloud saves. That's all they need to do.

Does Steam have more features/functions? Undoubtedly - it's one of the oldest launchers out there second only to Battle.net so it damn well should do. But a lot of those features and functions is just tatt at this point.

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mayoforbutter@reddit

There's only one basket and a few shabby sacks that smell like shit

The latter always whine about steam whilst the only thing they do is pee on it and ask "why are you not happy"

I'd love to have something other than steam but there's nothing. Maybe gog but that's still far away from steam

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segagamer@reddit

GOG, Xbox and Epic are all fine.

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dk_DB@reddit

Ok GoG is fine - but only because of they actively keep old games alive.

Xbox is shit.

Epic - wtf dude. That's the leader of the shit bucket. Peeing on Steam, screaming monopoly and has billion in the bank and can't even bring a half decent launcher to market.... The only thing they have going is gifting (mostly) crap games to everyone. Thats it.

And just recently laid off a bunch of people.

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segagamer@reddit

Ok GoG is fine - but only because of they actively keep old games alive.

GOG is DRM free and, like you say, keeps old games around.

Xbox is shit.

At what? Gamepass is great, the PlayAnywhere function is great, and things just install and play.

Epic - wtf dude. That's the leader of the shit bucket. Peeing on Steam, screaming monopoly and has billion in the bank and can't even bring a half decent launcher to market.... The only thing they have going is gifting (mostly) crap games to everyone. Thats it.

The only thing the launcher needs to do is install games I've purchased. It does that just fine.

Although personally I've not bought anything, but they give away games for free so I can't complain.

The rest of what you said about Epic is just bullshit that doesn't affect me.

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HonourableYodaPuppet@reddit

At what?

Literally everything? Have you looked at their sales numbers? (hint: they are bad. really bad) The execs are already leaving the sinking ship too. Xbox is pretty much done and unless they do a miracle xbox as a Playstation rival is over.

And if you dont use any features of steam/epic then sure, stuff is "fine".

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segagamer@reddit

Literally everything? Have you looked at their sales numbers?

No, because that doesn't affect me.

The execs are already leaving the sinking ship too. Xbox is pretty much done and unless they do a miracle xbox as a Playstation rival is over.

Odd, because Xbox has had the best developer support it's ever had, especially from Japan. But we're talking about PC here, not console.

And if you dont use any features of steam/epic then sure, stuff is "fine".

Well, no, because nonsense like forums and bloatware is what I would consider "bloatware".

[-]

dustojnikhummer@reddit

I heard GabeN is training his son to replace him? Hopefully he keeps going

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TheBestHawksFan@reddit

I worked there. When Gaben passes the company won’t change. Their culture is one of the only companies I’ve ever worked for that meant something top to bottom.

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trail-g62Bim@reddit

Doesn't he own the company outright? Who gets ownership when he dies? That is what will determine if it changes.

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EachAMillionLies@reddit

It was a random comment on a Reddit post a few weeks ago, but I think I saw someone say his son may take over.

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Nomaddo@reddit

Gabe's wife might have an ownership interest since the divorce.

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BioshockEnthusiast@reddit

I believe that they have an employee shared ownership thing going on and Gabe owns the largest stake.

He hasn't made any public announcements about what happens to the company when he eventually bounces off this mortal coil that I am aware of.

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pznred@reddit

Why did you leave if I may ask

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TheBestHawksFan@reddit

It was a contract job. I wouldn’t have left if it I was FTE.

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pznred@reddit

Got you

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Dr4g0nSqare@reddit

Former VMware employee here. Never say never. Late stage capitalism is a cancer that infects every good thing eventually.

My understanding was that nobody in the C-suite except the CEO was on board with it at VMware. I had a conversation with someone with first hand knowledge after all was said and done.

They also gave us a ton of bonuses in the last year and in retrospect I fully believe that was apology money. People at the top were dedicated to the vmware culture but all were powerless to stop it because Michael Dell had majority ownership and he got to do whatever he wanted to us all.

Not saying it'll happen the second Gaben passes. It may be like 5-10 years, but the second Valve goes public or gets sold to another company, it's the beginning of the end. I've lost all hope that we can ever keep anything nice in this economic system we find ourselves in.

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Xaphios@reddit

Valve have no outside investors as I understand it, so if they keep doing what they're doing all the profits are actual money in their account. Unlike the other billionaires who only have money as long as their companies are looking good.

If whoever takes over the reins from Gabe can be content with their license to print money and don't try to cash in on that publicly we should be fine. If they can't, it could all go down the chute.

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bigbramel@reddit

Steam is a monopoly in the PC-game market according to EU guidelines.

You don't need to have full 100% control or abuse your market share to be an effective monopoly.

Also Steam was (and still is in some departments) very anti-consumer. The current return policy only came in place after both Australian and European consumer organisations threatened with lawsuits. It's old policy banning selling game for eastern European prices in west Europe was illegal as fuck. It happily is involved in fake discounts situations.

And it's current situation of claiming to sell only licenses still doesn't stand in EU court. Meaning their official policy of not allowing to inherit libraries is also pretty illegal.

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dustojnikhummer@reddit

It's old policy banning selling game for eastern European prices in west Europe was illegal as fuck

I thought it was EU that banned discriminatory pricing within the EU? That everyone in the EEA had to pay the same price (despite having wildly different purchasing powers)

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bigbramel@reddit

Nope. That's just some BS misinformation.

The problem was that Steam was stopping (Western) Europeans to buy cheaper priced games. That's against the EU principle of free trade within the EU.

After getting some fines Steam (and thus Valve and holy Gaben) decided to be anti consumer against Eastern Europeans and make the EU one price region.

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Regular_Strategy_501@reddit

To be fair, steam definitely puts up moats. Things like taking 30% and then only allowing your game on steam if it is not cheaper on other platforms that take a smaller cut can be considered anti-competetive. Steam just does nothing really egregious, so most people, myself included are fine with it.

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dustojnikhummer@reddit

then only allowing your game on steam if it is not cheaper

That applies to Steam Keys. You can't sell a Steam key for less than the Steam MSRP itself, not including sales.

And yes, I'm aware of that one time where an indie dev had an issue where Valve didn't like a cheaper non Steam version being sold elsewhere but I don't remember how that ended up.

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Local_Debate_8920@reddit

They mandate that you can't sell your game anywhere else cheaper. That forces other stores to compete on quality instead of pricing. Obviously none of them can since it would require trying.

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dustojnikhummer@reddit

You can sell a game for 60 Euros on Steam and 50 Euros on EGS. What you can't do is sell a Steam key for 50 Euros on GreenManGaming.

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crimson_ruin_princes@reddit

Iirc they only have that rule for steam keys. Not other stores

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Local_Debate_8920@reddit

Epic for example isn't allowed to sell their game for 18% cheaper because they charge the developer less. It has to be the same price as steam.

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ABotelho23@reddit

Read the comment you replied to. That's only for Steam keys.

I.E. you can't sell it for cheaper if you make Steam provide the infrastructure for your game downloads. Steam doesn't even take the usual 30% commission for keys, either.

So they basically provide free infrastructure at no cost to the developer.

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Local_Debate_8920@reddit

I read it. My understanding is that it's wrong. I thought that was the point of Epic lawsuit.

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Geno0wl@reddit

I am not sure what the exact details are of the "contract" Devs sign before publishing their games. But I will say that it is patently easy to show that Valve freely allows games to be sold for cheaper on other platforms.

https://isthereanydeal.com/game/borderlands-4/info/

You can see how there are several storefronts that are cheaper than what Steam currently has it listed at. And that is a common occurrence.

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Nomaddo@reddit

I agree that Steam keys shouldn’t be able to be sold cheaper off Steam since they’re paying for the infrastructure, but I think the point of the Wolfire Games lawsuit is that maybe Steam wasn’t explicit enough about non-Steam key sales.

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katzners@reddit

To be fair it wasn't always like that. I remember when steam came out it was very controversial as it was a requirement to get online to play Half Life 2. It was a bit later that it turned out to be a great service but we wouldn't talk about it if they would fall into the abyss eventually if the game has somehow failed.

Still the get away is if you create a good service, people will stay and use it over other bad services.

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Frothyleet@reddit

Steam was shit for years. Man, I remember how pissed I was when I picked up my copy of HL2 at Gamestop, glad I could buy a physical copy to skip this steam bullshit, only to find a DVD that was... a steam installer.

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dustojnikhummer@reddit

Yeah Steam didn't really become usable until like 08 or so.

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vNerdNeck@reddit

By steam blue shit do you mean all the anti-cheat stuff they did at first?

I remember the early days, I can't say I would ever call it shit. The bigger issue is we all pirated games like a mofo (cause we were broke as fuck kids) and steam fucked up lan parties cause there were always a few folks that had it and the versions never match.

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Ssakaa@reddit

I grew up on id games, never got into HL... so it was a CoD that first boiled my blood with that...

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Thotaz@reddit

The first CoD on Steam was MW2 back in 2009. At that point Steam was working perfectly fine. MW2 itself was a bit controversial due to a lack of dedicated servers, but that had nothing to do with Steam.

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Ssakaa@reddit

Yeah... but I owned all my games before that. I could pull out a disk and install and play single player offline just fine. I'd avoided steam on principle up to that point.

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Ssakaa@reddit

Yeah... but I owned all my games before that. I could pull out a disk and install and play single player offline just fine.

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Zenkin@reddit

This is how I learned that I had only purchased an installer, and Steam did not work over dial-up. So infuriating.

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Kraeftluder@reddit

I never played HL or CS but I remember my buddies at LAN parties discussing whether or not to play the non steam version (1.5?) because it had less annoying bugs.

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Secret_Arrival779@reddit

Steam is shitty adware you're almost forced to use now. It's anti competetive because you can't remove the crap without removing your games.

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vNerdNeck@reddit

... Which is why I buy everything through steam. Never had an issue. It always works, and I don't lose keys like I have with any game I have bought outside of keys.

What crap are you talking about? All the anti-cheat systems?

Never had a problem with games loading in steam, that I didn't fuck up with mods in my own

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Speed-Tyr@reddit

Steam has plenty of anti-consumer practices.

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vNerdNeck@reddit

Name them.

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Xaphios@reddit

I'm not Steam-bashing here, it's great and I do like the platform. But don't they have the Amazon thing of "not allowed to sell cheaper elsewhere" going on? That is a bit of a shitty move, effectively stopping them being undercut ever, even if someone else comes out with a properly competitive product and better margins for sellers.

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Drywesi@reddit

But don't they have the Amazon thing of "not allowed to sell cheaper elsewhere" going on? That is a bit of a shitty move, effectively stopping them being undercut ever, even if someone else comes out with a properly competitive product and better margins for sellers.

That's specifically for Steam keys. Ie if you use Valve's infrastructure to distribute the game.

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Xaphios@reddit

Ah that's fair. I wasn't aware that it's only for steam keys sold on other websites. Rules for when using Steam's infrastructure make sense. Thanks for the info 🙂👍

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someoneusedkonimex@reddit

Ie if you use Valve's infrastructure to distribute the game.

If we want to be pedantic, doesn't selling on Steam (not using Steam keys) technically count as "using Valve's infastructure" in the first place?

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AcidBuuurn@reddit

While Epic is giving free games each week to lure people in, too.

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intelminer@reddit

And then quietly firing thousands because "Fortnite made less money than we hoped! :("

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Vuiz@reddit

To be fair that is nothing unique, the entire tech sector is pulling back on staff.

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Big_Booty_Pics@reddit

Not Valve. Nobody knows exactly what their financials look like but their profit/employee has to be astro-fuckin-nomical.

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EnvironmentalToe4055@reddit

Yeah but Valve also has like 300 full time headcount... there isnt any fat to trim.

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Nomaddo@reddit

I think the profit per employee got leaked in the Wolfire games lawsuit.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/07/valve-runs-its-massive-pc-gaming-ecosystem-with-only-about-350-employees/

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Vuiz@reddit

Nope, that's true. But their company is a proper unicorn with a completely flat hierarchy and a process that ensures they only get culture fits and everyone moving in the same direction; is my understanding.

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MyUshanka@reddit

I imagine if the Steam Machine/Steam Frame are duds they might run into some trouble, but for the last 10-15 years they've been able to coast on storefront fees and Counter-Strike loot boxes

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Big_Booty_Pics@reddit

All review content so far has been glowing about the steam frame. The steam machine on the other hand is probably going to be crippled by hardware price.

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MyUshanka@reddit

The Frame looks fantastic, but with companies pulling out of VR I'm worried about their target audience. I got tired of waiting and pulled the trigger on a Quest 3, which I'm loving (aside from the Meta integration, unless God willing they nuke the division and let us unlock the devices) because I was worried they would price it out of my budget.

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Library_IT_guy@reddit

I have heard they pay their employees extremely well and offer insanely good benefits, in order to lure the best and brightest. And it shows, because it's such a fantastic platform. I just hope Gabe is able to pass the torch to someone who can live up to the legacy of what he has built and that won't sell out and compromise.

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bfodder@reddit

Literally fucking said "to pay the bills". The fucking nerve of whatever dipshit wrote that memo...

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Orangesteel@reddit

Installed Epics launcher just once. Never again. Not even for free stuff. Really says a lot about the company

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bfodder@reddit

I like collecting the free games and never playing them or spending a single cent in their store.

I installed their mobile app and there is literally no way to view your library.

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Kodiak01@reddit

The only launcher other than Steam I have installed in Arc, because I still enjoy Neverwinter and Star Trek Online.

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Aevum1@reddit

i quit startrek online years ago, MMO´s just started feeling like going to work.

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Kodiak01@reddit

I rotate between various ones depending on my mood and new content available.

Guild Wars Reloaded brought a massive influx back to that earlier game. They made it so if you ever owned any of the 3 originals, you now have access to everything (except Eye of the North). I go between that, GW2, SWTOR, Neverwinter, DDO, STO and a few others.

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Aevum1@reddit

i remember farming margonite gems so i can sell them for Ectos to make my armor...

im done with guildwars and GW2, no interest in going back.

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Kodiak01@reddit

Days like today, going really old school. Angband.live lets you play not just Ang but multiple variants as well, complete with ability to chat with other players and have your savefiles stored remotely. Putzing along with a Vortex in FrogComPosband during downtime today.

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DoomliftDaemon@reddit

get them via the browser and or amazon prime gaming you don't need the launcher downloaded, i may never touch the games but I got um

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Doso777@reddit

You can grabd the free games without the launcher. I have a lot of games on there... and never installed any of them :p

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mrtuna@reddit

Always gives me a good chuckle when I see the “Steam is a monopoly” argument come up.

if you're a game, maybe not. But if you're a developer they probably are. If you don't agree to their terms... where are you going to sell your little game?

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Barimen@reddit

GOG and Itch.io are main options, with Epic and Desura (and others) being somewhere down the line.

A couple of indie games are still being sold through their website. Starsector being the main example, and it was true for games by Soldak Entertainment for a long time.

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whythehellnote@reddit

As a consumer, I get most of my games from gog

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autogyrophilia@reddit

It is a monopsony . Like Amazon.

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Valkeyere@reddit

There have been lawsuits about leaked emails, they definitely are at least TRYING to do anti-competitive things. I just dont think they're being anti-consumer when they do so the public is less likely to care that theyre fucking over competitors. If their product was shit then people would care more.

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Hefty-Amoeba5707@reddit

Waiting for Windows downfall

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Frisnfruitig@reddit

This isn't even remotely on the horizon... Sorry

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hasthisusernamegone@reddit

It's the year of the Linux desktop!

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Graymouzer@reddit

Linux has a fine desktop. It works for both technical users and those that just surf the web. It's there if someone wants to use it and millions do.

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hasthisusernamegone@reddit

Found the Arch user

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Graymouzer@reddit

Arch? Nay, good sir, I recommend Linux from scratch. That way you can choose just what you want as you compile from source. /s

Seriously, I mostly use Rhel and Ubuntu at work and Mint at home. I started out on Slackware many years ago though. I use and support windows as well but Linux is fine for a desktop. It's 2026 not 1993 and most distros just work.

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MidnightBlue5002@reddit

This. Most folks do everything in a browser, including MS Office, which works fine on Linux. Steam also works great, thanks to Proton. I get better framerates on The Outer Worlds 2 on my CachyOS install than I do on Windows 11, with same hardware.

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natebc@reddit

The only thing in tech that's perpetual!

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bbqwatermelon@reddit

In before enshittification by way of merger, I got 20:1 on Cisco

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bbqwatermelon@reddit

In before enshittification by way of merger, I got 20:1 on Cisco

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AmiDeplorabilis@reddit

I don't think Broadcom has necessarily made the product "worse", they've just priced it WAY out of the range of small businesses. Then they threw those same small businesses a sop by creating a "free" version that core-limits individual VMs to 8 cores; reminiscent of Bill Gates' infamous comment about 640K of RAM, Broadcom essentially says that "8 cores is enough for anyone".

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Kodiak01@reddit

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

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ansibleloop@reddit

Do nothing

Competition consistently shoots themselves in the foot

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awful_at_internet@reddit

"okay but how can we make the number go upper-er?"

Management

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oklahomasauce@reddit

"The gaming industry is bizarre. It is not an industry of success. It is an industry of your competitor, your direct head to head competitor, tripping over their dick and faceplanting into a bunch of shit. The only reason Sony got ground with the PS1 is because Nintendo fucked them with a deal and then went with carts for N64 and spent so many years pissing off third parties that everyone was willing to jump ship. The Saturn fucking killed itself by dropping into stores that were only Kmarts. The PS3 fucked up its entire early launch cycle by going a year late $200 more. And if you can just keep your company not shitty, if you can make a not terrible product, and your competitor makes an awful one, you’re the one who gets all the money." - Patrick Boivin.

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miscdebris1123@reddit

Many businesses are in the simply don't fuck up and you win category, like VMWare.

There are also businesses like Broadcom...

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el_Topo42@reddit

Yup, we just went full Proxmox, it’s kinda great

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cheepsheep@reddit

European companies trying to move away from American tech might have helped some too.

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Firecracker048@reddit

Well, broadcom, not vmware exactly

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OkTheory4610@reddit

Broadcom made proxmox rich now

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Simmery@reddit

We need a sysadmin vendor enshittometer. There's a period of time where a product is deemed pretty good, gets better because it's overseen by a competent CEO and employees who care about the product, and grows for a while. Then, often when it goes public, or when the original founders sell, or something like that, it starts to go to shit. Then we'll know when to start looking for alternatives.

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stillpiercer_@reddit

Datto is a fantastic example of this

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kernpanic@reddit

My example was Nexenta. Started off like proxmox but for storage. Progressively became shittier and shittier until they died and was replaced on mass by (freenas) truenas.

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dustojnikhummer@reddit

I really hope IX doesn't pull the same shit because TrueNAS is the best self hosted NAS OS IMO (ZFS is great despite of its limitations). OMV is rough man.

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havocspartan@reddit

I was told Slide backup guy is the old Datto founder who wrote the code for Datto BCDR after his non compete exhausted.

Slide and Axcient cover all our backup needs.

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stillpiercer_@reddit

I currently use both Datto and slide at some customers (MSP). It’s pretty good. It’s not 100% feature parity (yet) but it definitely is faster than Datto.

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bbbbbthatsfivebees@reddit

Yeah it's run by Austin McChord, same guy who founded Datto. Not necessarily the same dude writing the code, but it's essentially the same company started over again because he was unhappy with how Kaseya treated literally every company that was using Datto products after the acquisition. He's pretty active on Reddit and somewhere on either r/sysadmin or r/msp, he left a comment that was just a sad face when the post came out that Datto was being acquired by Kaseya.

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ansibleloop@reddit

Something like https://sso.tax

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dustojnikhummer@reddit

I'm surprised people still have the old one bookmarked

use this instead https://ssotax.org/

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ansibleloop@reddit

Oh that sucks - the URL was memorable so I just always went to that

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Einaiden@reddit

Last I heard it was basically just the two brothers doing their thing. I imagine they have already received that blank check and have decided that they still want to work on their labor of love for now.

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digitaltransmutation@reddit

they are a pretty professional shop now. Though from what I hear you can only really get them during daytime german hours.

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mesaoptimizer@reddit

This is 100% why I can’t convince leadership to even give it a shot no 24/7 support contract available is a no from anyone running a reasonably sized enterprise

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disclosure5@reddit

Does that leadership give Microsoft a pass for its 'Indian business hours only' three week SLA?

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mesaoptimizer@reddit

I've not had an issue with Microsoft's Sev A support any time we've had to use it. Anything less than Sev A is pretty meh but That's what leadership is worried about, The sort of incident that is impacting our ability to perform business and run service as normal.

The actual solution is to get support for Proxmox through a VAR but given how critical to operations the hypervisor is IT Leadership is VERY hesitant to take a risk on a newer solution, with lower marketshare (no peer institutions use it so if we adopt we have to justify doing something different) and without 24/7 support available in their enterprise agreement.

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EraYaN@reddit

Someone in the Broadcom sales org is very happy with you right now and if money is no object there is no real downside (sort of).

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mesaoptimizer@reddit

Yup it's quite annoying, and limits our options substantially, that being said we're exploring some options just not Proxmox unfortunately. (I'm 99% sure we're going to transition to Azure Local)

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disclosure5@reddit

As an Azure local supplier who has been paid to sell and do third party support for years - enjoy the downtime.

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mesaoptimizer@reddit

:/ well I can always leave before they implement, thanks for the heads up

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AndyceeIT@reddit

I can't speak for your requirements but we've had luck with 3rd party support for products that don't have 24/7.

Are you guys logging out of hours support tickets? I'm sure you could find someone willing to come in and fix anything for 1/10 the price Broadcom charge.

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cerialphreak@reddit

I would venture that the bigger issue is timezone mismatch. Having a vendor who's on-hours support is on a completely different shift from your company's is going to be a problem for anything urgent.

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Drywesi@reddit

glances at Microsoft

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TheDarthSnarf@reddit

also Palo Alto, Cisco... perfectly willing to setup that support session at 9pm - 2am your time. Because obviously they totally keep to those California/Washinton hours in their signature block.

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xfilesvault@reddit

And that’s why there are companies in the US that will give you Proxmox support during US business hours.

[-]

Einaiden@reddit

We got our support contract via the now unfortunately named ICE Systems. Let's be real though, it is just a CYA contract. I don't expect I'll ever actually make use of it.

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xtigermaskx@reddit

That's who we have our contract through and I will say they're really good we went with the 10 tickets a year and we've put in 2 the first year and maybe 4 the next year (doing our first big upgrade) and they were pretty stellar.

[-]

fuzzydice_82@reddit

24/7 means jackshit if all you accomplish outside of standard business hours is getting an indian first level guy with a questionaire on the telephone. the company know how is almost always bound to a handfull of teams and they have office hours depending on their geographical location.

[-]

LadyPerditija@reddit

24/7 support for Proxmox is done via gold partners

[-]

Dave_A480@reddit

Been in plenty of reasonably sized enterprises that would not pay for support unless they had to in order to get patches...

Actually kind of like it because (a) vendor support always sucks donkey-balls, and (b) they're usually hiring at a more senior level so that you can *be* the support.

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xfilesvault@reddit

We had to buy a support contract from a company in the US to get executive leadership buy in , but it wasn’t hard to convince them.

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jfugginrod@reddit

My company has this software that was made by a German company. Before we bought them out, we would need to call their engineers for support. This was medical imaging software so it's pretty important. We were on a big incident call with one of their IP devs and at one point he said "well it's 5pm here I must get going" and just logged off. What a legend

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Frothyleet@reddit

We supported the infrastructure for a company that had this jank ass DMS (a lot cheaper than paying for Autodesk or Dassault for their versions, apparently) which was resold by a US company, but the developers were a small group in Italy.

During one of the persistent long term performance/bugfighting sessions, we got told essentially that we were going to have to pause because the devs were basically all on vacation. For the month of August, which apparently is pretty common for a lot of Europe to just write off.

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fuzzydice_82@reddit

Every single worker right - no matter where in the world - was fought for, and almost all were paid in blood. That's a sentence to remember.

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HappyVlane@reddit

Though from what I hear you can only really get them during daytime german hours.

Austrian hours, please. I want some national pride.

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R4ndyd4ndy@reddit

But please don't immigrate to Germany and try to become chancellor

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Nietechz@reddit

Is it not possible to contact them and tell what r/sysadmin needs in business and they start working on them?

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digitaltransmutation@reddit

you can book a sales call on their website. Calling vendors and telling them what you need is actually an extremely common activity in business IT.

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Inanesysadmin@reddit

That’s not going to work long term in F500 scene.

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UltraEngine60@reddit

I'm trying to think of a single vendor more than 10 years old that hasn't been enshittified... but I cannot.

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Galenbo@reddit

w1ten1te@reddit

PDQ?

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UltraEngine60@reddit

Oh yeah, that's is one that has been holding steady. I was worried connect would be forced upon us but deploy and inventory haven't been killed yet. After googling I see they got a cash infusion from PE in 2023... now I'm scared.

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ucancallmevicky@reddit

it's when the start-ups start hiring executives from other enterprise software companies. They come in, fuck the culture till it's toxic and milk every penny out they can till they move on.

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Whoa_Bundy@reddit

Venture capitalists

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hessmo@reddit

The term you are looking for is “private equity”

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buy_chocolate_bars@reddit

Can I build a website with that name? "enshittometer"?

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OptimalCynic@reddit

Ah yes, the Opera trajectory

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RedShift9@reddit

Easily made but how to stop fake votes?

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the_worm_store@reddit

If it's owned by PE it starts at about an 8 of 10, if it's publicly traded a 6 or 7, if it's a startup that only has the goal of being bought by PE or going public, that's actually more like a 9.5.

The problem is we are genuinely running out of things to enshitify. I really do believe AI is the last gasp before we either blow up the planet, revert to mud huts and sticks, or maybe the guy who's really running things just unplugs the Matrix for the next build.

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Simmery@reddit

Certainly, when a vendor adds an AI button, it's time to abandon ship. (Sorry, Pure Storage - I mean, EverPure - it's all downhill from here.)

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sqnch@reddit

Im waiting for this with PMPC. Presumably Microsoft will buy them out at some point and turn jt to shit

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meatymimic@reddit

This exactly.

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10dot10dot10dot10@reddit

Thanks to Broadcom. 👎

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1z1z2x2x3c3c4v4v@reddit

Do you consider vendor's financial health when migrating?

Are you an AI Bot? Becuase nobody need to ask this question...

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aCorporateDropout@reddit

Uh, that’s absolutely something to consider if you’re building out a significant amount of infrastructure on it.

I worked somewhere that our SVP had purchased a staggering amount of Violin Memory storage arrays, not long before they went out of business. He was fired for not performing due diligence on the company before replacing our Dell/EMC SANs with that shit. It was a total debacle.

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1z1z2x2x3c3c4v4v@reddit

Uh, that’s absolutely something to consider

That's my point... EVERYONE would consider it, and it wouldn't be a question.

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h9xq@reddit

Yup, have already started spinning it up. It is a great product. With one of the biggest benefits is not being put in a chokehold by Broadcom licensing

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CeC-P@reddit

It should be 10,000% but they're dropping the ball just as hard as Scale Computing, which literally has a tool to convert VMware VMs to Scale Computing VMs. It works like crap and they haven't fixed it for a year. OOPS, missed the one I guess. But they're too busy having big company conventions and parties in Vegas and pretending they're doing well because "number go up." Number should go up A LOT faster!

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squeeby@reddit

Hopefully they won’t grow so big that they start to shit all over the none-enterprise users.

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stromm@reddit

Companies that grow that thickly tend to pop.

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RedditDon3@reddit

Off topic but somewhat related, is ProxMox better than XCP-ng? Looking to set up a home lab and learn. My company’s msp just switched our VM’s to Citrix using Xen Orchestra for management.

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Stryker1-1@reddit

Proxmox is a little simpler in terms of setup and management whereas xcpng has some more setup involved.

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benuntu@reddit

Both are good solutions, but as always it comes down to what your requirements are. Lawrence Systems has a good video talking about the differences here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzt_b1qoTns&t=512

For a homelab, I would install both and see which one you like better.

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TU4AR@reddit

Well , someone is going to buy this and make it be a bad product.

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Quigleythegreat@reddit

Someone like Dell or HPE could buy it and make a solution to rival Nutanix.

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BortLReynolds@reddit

Name me one thing that either of those companies bought that wasn't turned to shit.

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Quigleythegreat@reddit

I'm not saying that's a good thing lol, I could just see it happening.

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BortLReynolds@reddit

Oh thank god, sorry I misinterpreted your message as you wanting them to buy it.

You're right, they totally could :-(

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nerdyviking88@reddit

HPE did that already with Morpheus. https://www.hpe.com/us/en/morpheus-vm-essentials-software.html

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Roland_Bodel_the_2nd@reddit

It was definitely a consideration for me, it's all Free Software but also there is a functioning company supporting it

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arslearsle@reddit

…aaaand in 1 years some c suite assholes break in and seize power…and after another 10 years or so next army of c level assholes break in and chop up and sell the corpses to some other c suite assholes. Same story again - never ends 😂

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Sunny-Nebula@reddit

If Proxmox had a good file system so that you can easily do shared Fibre Channel or iSCSI storage, AND a North American support center, they would be taking over the market right now.

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Yncensus@reddit

maybe a better quorum strategy like a SAN share as well. VMware does datastore quorum, Hyper-V can use iSCSI targets and Proxmox needs a dedicated qdevice that has other implications as well. I am based in Austria and even there I have troubles recommending Proxmox with our FC-SAN.

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someoneusedkonimex@reddit

I have troubles recommending Proxmox with our FC-SAN.

Our third-party local reseller outright said "FC isn't supported in Proxmox, only iSCSI" even though we tried it in a lab and it works (regardless of whether it's actually stable or not). Unfortunately due to requirements and constraints, we do need local support and there are only two resellers here.

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spartacle@reddit

there is a huge difference between "supported" and "doesnt work", even vmware there were so many things that technically worked but were not supported any anyone

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someoneusedkonimex@reddit

Yeah, I'm aware and that's fair enough. I'd rather deal with vendors/resellers who are just honest about what they can or can't guarantee.

That just means for now we can't find a VMware replacement with decent to good local support, compatible with our current setup, and cheaper than what Broadcom would quote us for this year's renewal.

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Yncensus@reddit

I am not yet sure if it is really a possibility, it looks to me like it still needs some time, but we are investigating platform9 as a possible replacement as well.

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Kraeftluder@reddit

This is what's keeping me out of the water except of course for my home lab.

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Cyhawk@reddit

Its Debian. You can use essentially any filesystem you want for a back end that supports Linux.

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Sunny-Nebula@reddit

Negative! Shared block storage is still the Achilles heel of Proxmox. You can now do clustered LVM with iSCSI or FC, but then you can't snapshot your VMs.

I recommend reviewing this: https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Storage

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roiki11@reddit

That's because there's no cluster-aware filesystem vmfs for Linux. That's really the biggest difference. So your stuck implementing workarounds for that.

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ninjacrap@reddit

GFS2? Know it's "old", but wonder why this isn't supported by Proxmox...

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hitosama@reddit

What's wrong with OCFS2? It seems like, despite being from Oracle, it's freely available.

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roiki11@reddit

Because no one is using it?

Also is it in mainline debian?

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tecedu@reddit

cus debian

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LadyPerditija@reddit

From the link you posted:

4: Since Proxmox VE 9, snapshots as a volume chain have been available for VMs. These snapshots use separate volumes for the snapshot data and layer them. For more details, see the description for snapshot-as-volume-chain in the LVM configuration section.

So yes, you can get Snapshots on a clustered LVM Storage if you don't use LVM-thin.

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tar-xz@reddit

That was one of the missing features for those stuck with a pure iSCSI or FC SAN attached to a VMware environment. - That was something oVirt (Oracle OLMV / Red Hat RHV) was able to handle for some time already (although it definitely had / has some rough parts).

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LadyPerditija@reddit

Definitely. This solution from Proxmox is also not super elegant, but they know how important this feature is, especially for people coming from vmware where vmfs is one of the outstanding features

We migrated to Hyper-V because of cirtrix, and their shared iSCSI / FC solution is also janky af. If you wanted shared storage, vSphere really was the way to go.

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malikto44@reddit

Something like VMFS. I've seen improvements and deployments using Ceph, but not sure how that compares, especially for block storage.

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gnimsh@reddit

A few years ago I couldn't even find the menu to add my lun from synology and gave up.

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ashcroftt@reddit

Isn't everyone using Ceph with it? I've seen it as a default in every place that used Proxmox.

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CatsAreMajorAssholes@reddit

only $50 million? that cant be right

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Dave_A480@reddit

Well it is a FOSS product, so the usage rate is going to vastly surpass the subscription rate....

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hodor137@reddit

Eehhh, RHEL is used so extensively in enterprise and government, and CentOS and even Fedora together are only slices of the everything else Linux install base. I wouldn't have been surprised if there were more RHEL installs in the world by numbers than centos, I'd probably actually have bet that.

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gamebrigada@reddit

The joke is IBM bought RedHat because it was cheaper to buy the company than to license the new cloud platform they were building on RedHat licensed features.

So yeah, that wouldn't surprise me at all.

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AudioHamsa@reddit

IBM's financial statements would indicate they bought Red Hat for the revenue growth, and to re platform their workloads on OpenShift.

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gamebrigada@reddit

Well yeah, we know that now.

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AudioHamsa@reddit

we knew that then.

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Dave_A480@reddit

There was a *lot* of CentOS in enterprise use (and state-government, too)....

Maybe less at the largest ones (although Meta was a CentOS shop)... Most of these went to Oracle (which still offers support-fee-free RedHat compatible Linux) when the plug got pulled.

The ratio of paid-support-purchasers to 'just hire an admin who knows it backwards-and-forwards' on FOSS is always slanted towards 'get it for free and pay the admin'....

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spin81@reddit

Which I suppose some folks would say is bad for the vendor

I don't know about that. Many people out there are used to CentOS and working at an enterprise where you can get support for it seems like as decent as business model as any, as long as you can nab a few big fish. It's all about do you want to make money and grow, or do you want to make and grow as much as you possibly can at any cost?

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MaximumGrip@reddit

Good, they have good software that works. I hope they stay on track and someday capture all of the business that vmware is losing.

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omegadeity@reddit

Who are you kidding, they'll get bought by Broadcom soon, the industry is consolidating until ~~megacorps~~magacorps are formed that are too big to fail.

Enshittifying everything with their SaaS business model where you own nothing and have no rights to your own shit.

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shimoheihei2@reddit

A lot of companies have been moving off of VMware (obviously) and anyone not going to the cloud typically goes to Proxmox from my experience. So not surprising at all.

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ansibleloop@reddit

Yeah that or Hyper-V

Though I'd only do that if I had to run Windows

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seniorblink@reddit

We run Windows and tried Hyper-V twice, hated it twice, went Proxmox and loved it. It has it's issues, but it's much more analogous to VMware IMO. We migrated and told Broadcom to go fk themselves when we got the cease and desist letters.

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ansibleloop@reddit

Cease and desist for using the product you paid for

Disgusting - Tesco in the UK are suing them for this fucking bullshit

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NoradIV@reddit

I love free market. One guy does shit, the others fill in the vacuum.

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pm_me_your_bbq_sauce@reddit

When's the IPO?

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Fuskeduske@reddit

The fact that it is so insanely popular amongst tech people and still only a 50m company is insane.

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ucancallmevicky@reddit

about where VMware was in 2003, they sold for $600m to EMC 3 years later

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Cyhawk@reddit

However the founders of VMWare had every intention from day 0 to sell the company and bounce. Proxmox so far doesn't seem to share this philosophy just by being FOSS in the first place.

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ucancallmevicky@reddit

Diane and Mendel stayed for 4 years after the EMC sale and I believe intended to stay longer but EMC pushed them out. Do not agree they intended to bounce from day 1.

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Tutorbin76@reddit

Not really. VMWare was never FOSS.

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Wagnaard@reddit

Then in five years they will jack their prices and the cycle begins anew.

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ciabattabing16@reddit

They should send a thank you gift basket to Broadcom with a copy of their quarterlies

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gnartato@reddit

Just installed our promox hosts at the datacrnter yesterday. Good riddance brosdcom.

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Comfortable_Place465@reddit

Financial health absolutely matters when migrating. A vendor getting acquired or going under mid-implementation is a nightmare scenario. We've started using ERP-Pilot to evaluate vendor stability alongside technical fit-turns out knockout criteria should include whether they'll still exist in three years

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zeroibis@reddit

Someone should buy them and put a stop to this. People are being allowed to get a good product and this must be stopped.

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03263@reddit

Yeah, hopefully Broadcom slurps them up.

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ansibleloop@reddit

Think of all the shareholders who can't profit from this

This is an affront to capitalism

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Competitive_Paint730@reddit

All thanks to Broadcom 🙃

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Any_Anteater9526@reddit

Hopefully it won’t turn into Broadcom.

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lostdysonsphere@reddit

Once they have VMware level DRS and VMFS they’ll get even more close I’d say.

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_l33ter_@reddit

16GB RAM --> 32GB|64GB

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PeoplesJudeanFront@reddit

32GB|64GB -> 128GB|256GB

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Altusbc@reddit

That's good news for proxmox. The company I worked for, switched to Proxmox some years ago, and has not looked back. They now have about 1600 VM's on it.

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ManLikeMeee@reddit

How did that go?

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eufemiapiccio77@reddit

Nice

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me_myself_and_my_dog@reddit

All good until Broadcom, Microsoft, or Amazon buys it then ruins it.

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Tutorbin76@reddit

Then we can just fork it. One of the benefits of being FOSS.

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whythehellnote@reddit

Enerprises want pieces of paper to be able to blame a supplier. The actual support doesn't matter, it's the paper trail.

Getting a small company to offer 3rd party support isn't going to cut it.

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UninvestedCuriosity@reddit

I converted the place I worked to proxmox as soon as we got news Broadcom was looking to acquire. I also made them buy the licensing because it felt good to support something good for once. Despite never having issues or needing support.

I'm a little jealous at how much the migration situation has improved these days but I have no regrets.

I'm really hoping we will see continued support from valve for games on Linux as well. Whatever reduces publicly traded companies stranglehold on our tools and systems is a good thing.

If we ever get some sort of goodish windows client management based in Linux control I'll be the first one to support that as well. To hell with all this cloud nonsense.

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