International trucks used to be the kings.
Posted by blackerkin@reddit | Truckers | View on Reddit | 52 comments
To the mods real quick: if this isn’t the place for this, cool I understand, just remove.
Context: I’m an International Trucks Salesmen but THIS IS NOT AN AD, just wanting insight.
To everyone else, I know, Maxxforce took them out. And then the engines there after wasn’t much better between the N13 and A26. But chassis, rear ends, suspension, pretty much everything else but their engines have always been one of the best or uses some the best parts. Their cabs almost always have been more comfortable and aerodynamic than Freightliners, have had a better or on par layout to KW and Pete, almost the same tech and safety as Volvo, and had better availability and sourcing than Mack.
We got Cummins and everything that comes with them (Eaton Fuller/Meritor), we got Bendix, we got Chalmers, we got Hendrickson, we got Allison, our own engine and transmission are rebaged engines and transmissions, (S13/T14 integrated powertrain) out of Scania’s and if anyone knows Scania, they’re like our KW or Pete’s. Volkswagen bought International (how we got Scania) and kicked Navistar and most of their people out and is making International go back to their old ways of when they were making the 7.3 Powerstroke/DT444s, DT466s, had N14 Redtops in the Eagles, hell, speaking of Eagles, the new HX’s are the updated Eagle 9900i’s and they’re remodeling the HV (Workstar/7000 series) to look like the updated 5500i/6500i’s.
I know marketing for this type of stuff is crap and almost nonexistent and that’s my job to educate people, but that’s why I’m here asking because like I said, I want insight on what drivers, owner ops, fleet owners/managers, are saying so I can help people get good and/or better trucks that we have been seeing to both save money of the people that run them, as well as be better trucks than what they have now.
TLDR: Want to know what people are saying about our trucks and how to help out in this industry.
AutumnBrooks2021@reddit
Their kings of the scrap yard, definitely not on the road.
Exact-Leadership-521@reddit
I'm in a fld with a tall sleeper but my feet are against the wall and my head is touching the wall. In my international I can't stand up inside (who needs to) and I can put my arms above my head and have a good night sleep not touching walls
jessithecrow@reddit
i have always gotten shit for driving internationals. the first truck i bought was a 2020 lt with an a26 and a 13 speed. my only issue is how stupid the sleeper looks where it connects to the cab. the cab was wider than the cascadia i was driving, and the shitty wood accents really grew on me. i was getting almost 14 mpg with it too. i just ended up needing a different setup for a new job and had to let it go.
it outlived my buddy's cascadia that he got at the same time with similar specs. i actually still miss that truck, it never really let me down. i had issues going into limp mode once and just needed a software update. i bought it with 20k and put almost 800,000 miles on it before i moved on.
my next international was an 05 9900ix with a 500 cummins, 13 speed, and a drop axle. hot heck i always felt cool driving that thing. dual stacks, chromed out with the stupid lights and all. i miss that truck too. it was stolen like a year ago.
my point is, i've never willingly gotten rid of an international. international trucks are like little caesar's pizza. they're fuckin great as long as you don't have someone sitting in your ear telling you they suck. i may be an outlier or whatever but i've had the best luck with international.
all i know is never touch a prostar.
TennesseeJed11@reddit
Never touch a pro star ! 9400 s are tanks
Dense_Particular3134@reddit
Anything with the 9000 series cabs were good trucks. Simple and easy to repair, having all HVAC stuff under the passenger seat was great.
Naborsx21@reddit
I had a lonestar. lol finding parts for it was impossible.
jessithecrow@reddit
i always wanted a lonestar, they have so much personality. i've never even looked inside one though, so i don't have much of an actual opinion though.
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
The Lonestar cab is the same as an LT’s/Prostar, unless you did the driver’s lounge option for the sleeper because then you have a couch/bed setup or Murphy bed. The best Lonestar’s to get are the ones after the Prostar became the LT because then, you won’t have Prostar problems because like you said, never get a Prostar 😂
If the 9900 is your favorite model overall out of what you have had, take a look at the HX520. It is pretty much just a modern 9900 and that’s how International has been treating them as well build quality and spec wise.
jessithecrow@reddit
i was looking at the hx, those things are sweet. i love the big chunky grill. i really wanted a cabover this time, otherwise you bet your ass i'd be in an hx or a lonestar right now. on one of my routes i pass by an international dealer and they always have a nice hx outside to look at.
Back_woods_Boss@reddit
Best way to describe those trucks is workhorse. Large companies loved them. They were usually cheap, no frills trucks that got the job done. I started driving with a transtar 2. Rode rough but was dependable. Maxxforce killed them.
SheepherderHopeful55@reddit
My only issue with Internationals now is that stupid scoop on the hood by the windshield, you know that shit was designed by someone who has never been behind the wheel of a truck, that shit reflects light right into your eyes and blinds you and can cause an accident, until they change that I will keep picking Freightliner even though I like the layout of the International better
Tutorele@reddit
Anecdotally? I started in the trucking industry fairly recently here, end of 2024. I'm a young man (26) without any preconceived notions since my family didn't have much exposure to trucking before I got into it, besides my older brother who recommended it to me and never gave me any of his own assessments on brands or much bias, we don't really talk Trucking much.
From the very first moment I got into trucking, everyone told me no matter what the worst truck I can get is an international. The nickname I always heard was "Intertrashional" and I've yet to have what seems to be the displeasure of driving one. I keep up with one friend from my training group who did end up getting one. She has had a great deal of struggles with her truck. Far more problems than I am used to seeing with my Cascadias despite it having many more miles in both cases, not that I can honestly say my Cascadias dont still end up having many problems. I'm sure this has plenty to do with the specifications that Mega carriers go for, but that's the vast majority of what we're going to be exposed to so bear that in mind. You noted that fuel efficiency is a big factor, but for over the road drivers who are often going to be stuck with whatever they're given, often heavy, I imagine it's quite unpleasant. And I'm very used to passing every single International I see the second we reach any hill as a result. I like my Nissan Altima in my personal life, suits my economic needs, I wouldnt want what seems to be a truck equivalent of it though, respectfully.
I can't talk shop on specifics like you guys can, nor do I really care to. All I can tell you is that you have a very abysmal reputation to newcomers from word of mouth. Take from that what you will, hope its an insightful data point.
Ok-Youth1323@reddit
Thy can’t turn and have shit interiors.
justaguynumber35765@reddit
Thirteen letter shit spreaders .
Cornbinder hasn't been king since the days on the cabover .
HowlingWolven@reddit
No they haven’t. The current cab sucks. All you’ve got over Daimler is the ability to cram a roll of paper towels in the overhead and a magmount VHF antenna on the little stickyouty bit of cab roof. The cab’s noisy, the windshield and the clearance lights leak in the rain, the storage is weidly laid out, there’s no good microwave cabinet, the truck I was in didn’t have 120v wiring for an inverter, and the seat’s too bouncy and I had to have it about 2” off the deck to be able to see out the windshield at all and that made it bottom out over expansion cracks and hurt my back.
The transmission paired with the A26 sucked too.
Surprisingly enough, the engine was about the only thing that didn’t disappoint, and the variable geometry turbo on it would sometimes stu… tu… tu under heavy jaking at low rpm. I can’t make a dd15 turbo stututu.
National-Answer-9792@reddit
Don't get me wrong, IHC has always built a good product. Compared to Paccar, they don't have the same level of interior. They would definitely be my third pick, right after Peterbilt, but Kenworth builds the best trucks. Or until they stop producing the W900 at least.
Princetrix@reddit
I don’t think anyone has ever thought of International as kings (as someone whose family has been in the industry for decades). They made some good equipment especially in that N14 era, but king is far fetched.
luddite86@reddit
How many decades? The R line was pretty well respected in Australia back in the 50s
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
I don’t know, always have heard nothing but good things about the old ones. Especially trucks like the Paystar, 9900 Eagles, old 4400s, etc etc. I probably should’ve said one of the kings but then I don’t think I would’ve gotten the response I was looking for since I’m just wanting to hear feedback to see what I can do to help people and help make our trucks better.
driver_dylan@reddit
I drove an International for fifteen days while my Truck, a 2023 Freightliner Cascadia, was down with a blown Computer (a common issue with that years Freightliners due to COVID shipping issues). I was put in a '23 International with less than 5000 miles, and let me tell you, it was the longest 14 days, 6 hours, and 23 minutes I have ever experienced in my entire trucking career.
First, for a brand new truck, how the F did it ride that badly, the suspension was a joke and on Atlanta roads, that's saying something. Yet that wasn't the worst thing, somehow the internal lights were too dark to eat by, and too bright to leave on while you slept, the internal fridge managed to barely chill water let alone hold food for a week, and then there was the cabin sounds. Now anyone who has been in a Freightliner knows that sound dampening is more of a suggestion, but how in the hell did International do it worse. Somehow I heard every fart in every truck stop.
Lastly was the joke of a transmission that would somehow run out of air and lock up if you put the fucking thing in reverse for longer then 30 seconds without moving. If you did move, then it would be fine for as long as you needed, but then wouldn't go into first unless you shifted through park. I nearly kissed one of our mechanics full on the mouth the day he gave me back the keys to my old girl.
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
So the suspension issue I can see because sadly we’re one of the last manufacturers that doesn’t have front air suspension but, and there’s a big but, if the truck is options with a seat that even one or two steps higher than the base seat, it rides just like a truck that does have front air suspension if not better.
The sound deadening, it is an option. Mega fleets:mega carriers typically don’t option it because of profit margins so all that’s in between the outside of the truck and the inside when it doesn’t have it is whatever material is there on the inside and that’s about it. When it doesn’t have the sound deadening, and I can say it because I tested (albeit in a ghetto way 😂), we do have one of the quietest cabs on the market.
Transmission thing, unless it was the T14 that only goes behind the S13 engine, it wasn’t on international unless the air supply tank wasn’t speced right for the trans then yeah, that’s on us. If I remember/have heard correctly, a lot of the old Eaton advantage transmissions had issues like that but when they went to now the Endurant and a recall or two had happened, that issue doesn’t happen anymore. I do apologize for the times that it did though because I know that’s annoying af for it to lock up while you’re just trying to work.
driver_dylan@reddit
I only know what I experience in a very long 15 day stretch. That truck was the worst commercial for an International I have ever seen. I apologize for being blunt but it was that bad, and yes, I was working for Schneider at the time, but basic sound dampening should not be an option anyone can skip out on.
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
You’re right, it shouldn’t be. But, that’s one of the things they do/did to stay afloat while all the bad things were happening. Made the cheapest possible truck inside, but one of the best trucks aero wise, gained a bunch of national accounts and left the little guys out of the equation unless they paid for it. But with VW here now and making them remember who they were, that’s no longer happening as much.
deafening_silence33@reddit
I'm in an Intertrashional now for this company and the only reason I can think of is cause of how cheap it is. I want my Volvo back. I've never heard anyone call these king of anything.
No_Ocelot4019@reddit
Couldn't tell you which model they had I worked for a foodservice company that had several different brands of trucks. Always disliked the internationals (and volvos but youre asking about internationals) I know they had sent back most if not all of them shortly after getting them for bad transmissions. To me you were fighting the truck to keep it in your lane the entire time after they got 300-400,000miles on them maybe even less but they were assigned trucks before that many miles. It didn't help that anytime you got within a foot of the lines your camera went off and in my opinion my cascadia is leaps and bounds more comfortable than any of the internationals I've been in.
HighwayStar71@reddit
I absolutely HATE the suspension. It's like being in a boat all day or something. I'd rather be in a Freightshaker if that tells you anything.
redditman_of_reddit@reddit
They're kings alright... Kings of the junkyard, still are actually
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
A lot late late 2000s to late 2010s, yes. Horrible time and did not the choices that Navistar made. Before then? Great, one of the best. DT466, DT444/7.3 Powerstroke, Paystar 5500/5600i’s, Eagles, etc etc. After then and VW put the hammer down, I will throw them up there with everyone else for reliability and safety. Especially once this new round of emissions hit, we’re only having to change 2 things on our engine, everyone else is having to change 40-60% of theirs and Cummins is about to bring out a whole new line up on top of slapping a $20-25k price increase on the X15 and $8-10k increase on the 6.7 because they’re using credits (paying fines) to the EPA to keep them around till the 7.2 is ready to replace the 6.7 and to get the X15 to pass and be reliable.
xtankeryanker@reddit
Comparing an International to a Peterbilt is like comparing a Fiat to a Bentley.
Missing_link_06@reddit
Interior cabinet doors that don’t latch or stay shut, a drivers seat that I messed for a week trying to find a combination of options to make it bearable, and the last thing for the LT is I’m chasing the wheel going down the road. When the wind hits it or I hit a bump the combination on the suspension tweaks in such a way that it will turn the steering wheel. It’s like driving an old dodge, chasing the wheel to keep it between the lines. I don’t have that issue on Paccars or Freightliners.
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
They’re going to be improving the cabinets in the 27s/28s I think, seats just come down what option the company went with because yes, the base seat, horrid. Some of the upgraded seats, amazing. Went through a road that had pot holes the size of floater tires with a truck (KY things) with an LT that had one of the best seats and could barely feel the bumps and holes, definitely had to hold the steering wheel good though because I don’t thing they put enough dampening in the steering system to help absorb some of those bumps and keep you from having to chase the wheel like it’s a 2nd gen dodge.
groovyinutah@reddit
I liked the the couple of Internationals I drove at the beginning of my career about 10 years ago. To this day I believe they made better use of their cabin space then any other brand and hands down the fuse box on top of the dash should be mandatory on all trucks. The brand new T680 I drove next did however have a noticeably smoother ride. I don't like the look of the mirrors now but I always thought they were good looking trucks.
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
The main thing hurting our main sleeper, over the road truck I think right now ride quality ride is that we don’t have front air suspension. If we did, and the company got one of the higher optioned seats, we would have the best riding truck on the market. Especially if they do like they have been doing and taking ideas from Scania trucks and they finally put air ride on all four corners of the cab, no one would want to get any other truck if they knew about it.
SashaDabinsky@reddit
I hadn't driven an International in my years until about 3-1/2 years ago when I drove a few. Every one of them felt like they were in zero hurry to accelerate; mash the gas to pull out onto the highway and get up to speed, and it felt like a Cascadia at 50% throttle. I also really loved the shitty hood design that reflected the sun in your eyes. /s
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
This heavily depends on spec. Like power, trans, programming, and rear end. Because if you get in an LT that only has 400 hp, a 12 speed automated manual, and a 2.36 rear end, yeah it ain’t gonna move at all. Yes, it’ll get 9-10 hell, 15-16 mpg but, it isn’t going to want to get out of its own way much. But if I get in a different LT that has the same engine and trans but now a 3.10 or 3.42 rear end, it’ll move a lot better and only get like, .7 or .8 mpg less. A lot of big big fleets and companies spec everything for fuel miles and if International is going to be anything, they’re always going to try and shoot to have the best MPG no matter what since that’s one of the things that kept them afloat during Maxxforce. People buying just the chassis and rear ends then slapping glider kits in them best of the aero design. Yes, when weight gets high enough, aero isn’t going to save you much but, thats those outlier situations as those same carriers call them and they’ll handle that when it become a problem, I.e a wreck and now it is P.R.’s problem.
w9nfm@reddit
USED TO BE in the 70's now they are 13 letter shit spreaders. Even the door and windows controls break apart right away. International used to make solid strong reliable trucks. But not in many years.
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
They’re fixing the window control problem in the 27/28s, they just were more focused on getting some other things right first I think like, getting the A26 and Prostar DNA fully out of the LTs 😂
PlsCheckThisBush@reddit
They’re known as 13 letter shit spreaders for a reason - they made decent farm tractors. The international eagle was the only road tractor known as a decent and recognizable truck.
As for kings I would struggle to not put KW or Pete or hell even MACK up there for their old prowess. Remember a lot of folks got introduced to outlaw trucking from a W900 in Smokey and the Bandit and they’re still making it after god known how many years. It’s like a G wagon - yes it’s different over the years but it’s instantly recognizable from a mile away.
Volvo and Freightliner have made a name for themselves as the Toyota Camry (realistically Altima from their drivers) of trucks and just work for a huge variety of applications and ease of parts/repair.
Kenworth is making the last of the true long nose old-school trucks for the final year; the final legend dies. Peterbilt redesigned their 579/567 and made a 589 - a long nosed truck with legit air breathers and true dual exhaust. It’s still a far-cry from the 389/79/etc. they used to make, but they’re trying to at least keep pride and heritage alive for their buyers - even if the interior is the exact same as every other heavy duty truck they make now.
Nothing against internationals, I feel like their marketing was never there though, and their name doesn’t carry the same weight like saying “yep that’s a W9.”
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
Hopefully with how they’re going now and VW getting them into the right gear, they’ll bring back the Eagle name for the HX. Especially the HX520 because in the right spec or layout, it looks exactly like an only 9900i Eagle.
RectumRavager69@reddit
The interior is made for midgets. When I started I was initially assigned a brand new international, went and sat in it, and immediately hated it. The lack of room was to the point it would become an ergonomic safety concern. I immediately requested a pete, got assigned a clapped out fucking shitbox 579 ultraloft, and had to live in everyone's asshole to make sure it got repaired and maintained back into a decent truck. Now, I'm spoiled, and I wouldn't want to drive anything but a pete or kenworth ever again. I would tolerate a volvo or freightliner for ridiculous amounts of money. I wouldn't drive an international for 100k net every year. Ain't big enough in the seat.
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
If it’s alright, how tall are you? Only asking because I am 6’5 350 lbs and can fit just fine the interiors but I will say this too, the distance between dash to seat and everything like that is dependent on what seat choice the company/person went with. Yes, they’re all mounted to the same spot but some seat options can move further back or are more adjustable in general. The base seat with base interior yes, it is a bit tight, especially in a day cab but, that’s when it comes back to seat options because in the same day cab model and truck, just with a different seat option, I could fit in way better and be more comfortable. There is 7 seat options to choose from and most of the big fleets/mega carriers are going to go the cheapest for everything because profit margins. My team and dealership as a whole has been pushing international to change this and in the 27 model year, there’s going to be a lot of changes that hits all models, especially emissions related no matter what the news is saying, and some of those changes are to the interior. Sadly, not utilizing sleeper space better but there is going to be some changes and option differences.
RectumRavager69@reddit
6'7 and currently 297lbs but was heavier when I tried sitting in it. I think I may have even spoken with you about it a while back. I'm sure it was one of the cheaper seats and interiors but it really wasn't great as a bigger dude, and it was also the only truck where if I tried turning too quickly I would hit the drivers side window with my elbow. The bunk was fine, it actually felt bigger in some ways than the ultraloft I'm in currently even if I know that objectively that's not actually the case. But the cabin in whatever configuration it was in was not meant for someone my size at all. Had I been about half a foot shorter and 50+ pounds lighter I likely would've accepted the truck.
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
Hey, if you spoke with someone from an International dealer that’s in the KY/TN area than probably have 😂 If you haven’t tried one yet or at least been around one, try to see how it is in a HX cab. They make the HX cabs a little bit wider and deeper than the LTs because of what they do and so they look a little more proportional so it maybe a better fit. The drivers window/elbow thing though, I have experience in a lot of their models. I think it’s just cause the put the seats so close to the doors and don’t give a whole lot of extra room in between.
disturbedrailroader@reddit
My biggest complaint with internationals has always been the electrical. From my days as a tech to now as a driver, chasing down electrical gremlins is a nightmare. My current ride is a 2020 LT and it's had a few gremlins in the 3 months I've had it already.
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
Sadly the 2020 shared a lot of DNA with the Prostar still since it was only 1-2 year different from the Prostars. From what I have seen/heard, in 21/22, they fixed a lot of the gremlins. I have been trying to not recommend out trucks from before 21 for this reason and some others because that’s when VW really put the hammer down and made them start making trucks right again.
LoicenseToGirth@reddit
Company I'm with has internationals.
Why do the AC and radiators break down before 50k-100k miles? Years 25 and 26
The 2023 are fine. Have one RN with 283k miles and hasn't been in the shop in 2 years.
Guys getting the 25 and 26s are constantly in the shop for sensors, parts, etc.
Why did y'all drop the ball on these models?
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
What sensors, what engines, and what model?
steveteeg1@reddit
Corn binder king lol
deezkeys098@reddit
Every company I ever ran with that had multiple brands of trucks on the road always said internationals are always in the shop more than they are on the road. And they had the internationals sitting in the yard to prove it nobody wanted to drive them and lose revenue when they broke down🤷♂️ just my observations
Capn_T_Driver@reddit
I own an International LT625, and not because I want to. While it’s a Cummins truck and overall has performed well for me, here are some of my gripes with it:
1.) the interior is cheap materials, dark, and the LED tap lights don’t do much. The overhead dome lights are blocked by the fixed upper bunk.
2.) interior storage options are more limited because of that aero front basically eliminating cabinet and shelf options that Freightliner and other manufacturers with full domes have.
3.) that windshield CMS/lane assist/speed limit detection camera is the bane of my existence and I hate that I can’t have it turned off permanently. I block it, because it pisses me off otherwise.
4.) the HUD layout is stupid. I don’t need separate gauges for my air tanks. One gauge: two needles.
5.) the ‘more aerodynamic’ International is still the ugliest truck on the road by a long stretch. Past a certain weight the aero doesn’t really make much difference: we’re still getting 7-8mpg if we’re lucky no matter which manufacturer you buy or represent.
You want International to be better liked?
Get rid of that ugly-ass dome and fill out the whole front end of it with proper cabinets.
Give owner-operators more flexibility and control over what safety features are or are not enabled. Half of them are more likely to piss us off than
blackerkin@reddit (OP)
I think the LT line in general gotta go or at least a major refresh.
It’s too much like the Prostar and carries too much of the blood of jt to where it turns people away. The only reason why it’s still around is because of the superior aerodynamics compared to a lot of other brands but it is due for a full change, especially the sleeper design like you said.
I agree the dash is annoying and it needs to be easier to control because that first page, if the dealer set it up right, is supposed to be driver customizable.
They’re supposed to making interiors with better materials this next round in the diamond level other than just “wood” trim and leather patches here and there so looking forward to that.
I know when you’re pulling heavy, aero doesn’t matter which is why when I know someone is going to be pulling heavy, I recommend the HX. To be honest, the only time I willingly recommend the LT is when they’re pulling a dry van/reefer, conestoga, grain, or just a boxy trailer because then I recommend getting aero packages to make it match to the trailer. Other than that, HX because LT doesn’t make sense at that point since that’s all the LT was designed for. RH if they’re going to be regional/day cab.
Safety features, we genuinely can’t do much about it since International isn’t who makes the stuff. Bendix does it and other than lane keep assist, we can’t change/adjust anything other than what the driver is already able to. I do genuinely apologize for that.
Unfair_Analysis_3734@reddit
I am looking around to decide what my first truck as an o/o will be. The freightliner cascadia is my first choice for the overall ease of getting parts and service. Also I’ve been driving them a lot and am well accustomed to them. The only thing I like about the international LT is that they seem to be a bit more affordable, but the reputation is still stained in what I am hearing.