Sugar scoop
Posted by Awkward-Lead1569@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 27 comments
Are there any "bluewater sailboats" around 45ft in length that have a nice big sugar scoop like that on the Beneteau Oceanis 58?

Posted by Awkward-Lead1569@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 27 comments
Are there any "bluewater sailboats" around 45ft in length that have a nice big sugar scoop like that on the Beneteau Oceanis 58?

Lord-of_the-files@reddit
How are you defining Bluewater Boat?
Awkward-Lead1569@reddit (OP)
Good question.
I'm going to say, for me, something designed to tolerate force 8 for weeks on end. That would make me feel good going around the big capes.
I just watched a YouTube video (Sailing Zingaro) which effectively concluded that production boats <49ft like beneteau just aren't safe offshore.. I'm not sure it's conclusive but theres certainly stuff to ponder
Far_District9145@reddit
Now define “safe”. Not trying to be an a-hole, but i get really peeved by the whole YouTube phenomenon of self-designated experts declaring this or that boat should never be taken offshore. That is crap — as has been demonstrated by competent, prepared sailors of boats under 49ft throughout history. Sorry, I guess YouTube sail content like this just triggers me.
Good luck. I’m sure you can find a sugar scoop sterned boat that’s suitable for the task.
Advanced_Link_5753@reddit
It isn’t just you. People watch a channel and treat it like gospel. Instead of being objective, they base their feelings off personal bias, or ancillary evidence. Just because you know someone who experienced something doesn’t make it fact. Just because you circumnavigated, doesn’t make you a weather forecaster, nor does it kale you a structural engineer. Yes they have experience, but it is largely overstated. Anything to drive views…
Awkward-Lead1569@reddit (OP)
I didnt properly represent explain the youtube video - in it, the guy specifically talks about how the 'grid' (subfloor) is bonded to the hull, and how it can fail, and what kind of forces are acting on it, and the keel and the bolts etc. He doesnt say it will fail, but the inescapable conclusion is that if it does, it can be catastrophic. Then, someone in the comments suggests that that failure CAN happen at anytime, without warning, because there isnt really a good way of measuring its integrity.
The whole thing about golf is that you're supposed to give it only 70% of your power. Same with catamarans, you're supposed to be always well within sailing/stress tolerances. Unlike some of the long keel, unbreakable, brass fittings, old school (and slow) sailing boats, the kind that Chichester and Slocum had available, it looks like a lot of modern production yachts needs to be similarly 'babied'.
Im a guy that likes to get that extra knot, and push hard. I realise the modern, solid expensive boats are still going to break, so my principle quest is the work out if the extra $300k is going to provide $300ks worth of extra features or benefit. In the end its probably not, and actually none of the 45ft scandi boats are offering the cockpit space that the cheaper charter market boats have. Its all a compromise i know.
so back to the original question - does anyone know of a SOLID/HEAVY/BLUEWATER sailboat that has a massive recreational back end to her?
OberonsGhost@reddit
If you're looking for solid and heavy, I'd be looking for a steel hulled boat like a 45 foot Bruce Roberts or something similar. The nice thing besides the toughness of steel is that it would be the easist to modify if you wanted to brace the keel or add weight,etc. Even adding a sugar scoop to a design where it would work would be easier with steel.
IndyBananaJones2@reddit
Probably a lot more production boats doing circimnavigations than big, heavy built traditional ocean boats.
IndyBananaJones2@reddit
There are probably more <49 ft production boats circimnavigating right now than any particular brand of crab crushing full keeled traditional boat.
Most people don't go around the great capes, and they sail in good weather. Look how many boats in the ARC circumnav are production boats, for example.
It's really about your personal preference but a ton of old Beneteau, Jeanneau and other production boats are out here doing it.
Lord-of_the-files@reddit
I was wondering if you had any particular design features in mind, or whether it's more of an overall build quality thing.
I think it's interesting to look at real world examples. High performance modern designs blast around the world at 30kts and do occasionally suffer from broken rigs and foils. But then along comes the GGR with its old fashioned boats and they suffer just as badly. There are many factors at play including boat size, length of time exposed to testing conditions, and of course how well the particular boat is prepared and sailed.
I don't entirely buy in to the notion that modern production boats aren't capable of Bluewater voyages. We've seen every type of boat imaginable in our 10k+ miles. Ok we've not gone high latitude- although a friend did, and found himself in company with a Bavaria!
olddoglearnsnewtrick@reddit
I would not like that in heavy following seas ;)
BenderRodriquez@reddit
It drains almost as fast as it fills. The other option is to have a tiny cockpit. The worst combo is probably a large cockpit with drains.
IDreamOfSailing@reddit
I saw one that drains straight into the cabin, super easy!
liftedlimo@reddit
It's a feature, not a bug!
Advanced_Link_5753@reddit
Undocumented feature…😂
olddoglearnsnewtrick@reddit
Correct but I was not referring to the draining capacity but more to the 'flat' stern (sorry for my intermediate English)
BaggyLarjjj@reddit
How you gonna scoop up that sweet sugary seawater without it?
barefootviking@reddit
Outbound, Allures, Kraken, Island Packet…most modern boats have a scoop or fold down transom creating a beach club/scoop.
Rare-Abalone3792@reddit
Island Packet came to mind immediately 👍
jfinkpottery@reddit
Every boat is a bluewater boat if you're brave enough.
sailingtroy@reddit
The J-35 has done transats. Big sendy. Hell yeah.
Sh0ckValu3@reddit
But is not a sugar scoop stern.
sailingtroy@reddit
No, I agree. I'm just saying you don't have to be a big tank boat to do blue water sailing. Just continuing the joke about, "if you're brave enough" since they're notoriously lightly built boats.
Sh0ckValu3@reddit
Gotcha.. Yeah. I tell people any boat can cross an ocean if you pick the right weather window.
SailingSpark@reddit
The montgomery 17 has done several large ocesn transits.
millijuna@reddit
Not technically a sugar scoop, but my friends have a Moody 46 that has a big fold down panel on the stern. It’s basically a swim and dinghy platform when down (more than strong enough to hold a 3 adults) but when folded up, it protects the stern from following seas.
Mediocre-Tough-4341@reddit
Freedom 45
X_kansas_x@reddit
For older boats, anything might have a swim platform with some custom work.
Check out this Hallberg Rassey product for inspiration:
https://shop.hallberg-rassy.com/bathing-platform-109-x-60-cm.html
They even sell fold up telescopic ladders to go with these.