[Canada] “Go north” is what I’m hearing from folks about building time if instructing is not for me; what companies are doing good by new commercial pilots?
Posted by WhenWillIBeAPilot@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 61 comments
The way they treat employees, flight time, good company management/policies, etc.
On the flip side, any company’s notorious for the same?
Canadian_Beaverz@reddit
Just please don’t fall for the Ramp to Flight BS that… certain… companies offer. cough cough Perimeter cough cough
Haven’t been there myself but MY GOD the horror stories are real
Brave_Recognition798@reddit
I've been told by every single person I know, that's the only way to get a job now. Even instructing won't land you a job once you get the rating since there is a surplus!
Canadian_Beaverz@reddit
Not worth it. Go get some connections, mingle, network while continuing to progress your skills. First one will come. Don’t lower yourself and devalue your worth.
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
But also be humble right? You technically don’t have any “worth” yet
Canadian_Beaverz@reddit
You have worth as a basic human being. These jobs anywhere else, while not paid GREAT, can make 20-25$/hour. They prey on you that you’re desperate and give you minimum wage. If you want to go work ramp, gain aviation experience, and make your resume look better, go get an ACTUAL ramp job.
Ramp-to-flight is a scam and is a predatory practice for cheap, desperate labour
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
Aviation is a scam. I hated it
Brave_Recognition798@reddit
I have all my ratings but nobody knows any (non ramp) jobs that need someone with 300 hours.
I think I'm just going to fly a desk and have weekends off at this point :/
Canadian_Beaverz@reddit
Keep flying and gaining hours. Keep sending resumes out. Look everywhere and anywhere, be willing to relocate far. Pipeline jobs have consistent turnover which can be good for experience at first. Keep working a job for cash obv.
Just don’t fall for these traps. Poverty wages for little to no hope of flying for them while they treat you like shit and hang it over your head. Better off working anywhere else and continuing tonapply
Brave_Recognition798@reddit
I'm sadly too broke to keep renting, I'm shooting out resumes on PCC but everyone I know says it's ramp or no job. Especially if you can't afford to keep current :/
WhenWillIBeAPilot@reddit (OP)
The fact that folks actively ask for “ground to flight” programs in one of the fb groups makes my skin crawl.
AtmosphereMiddle1682@reddit
How does that even work? Give me cheap labour and maybe I'll give you a job later?
Canadian_Beaverz@reddit
Basically. “We promise, just work the ramp for minimum wage and we’ll get to you being able to fly soon” meanwhile you’re number 87 in a line that moves about 5-10/year. I’ve heard of some being on Ramp for 1-2 years and still being 40 away. But there’s always people desperate enough for a job to give in. Perimeter and Summit I think have been the most notorious over in the west/north.
AtmosphereMiddle1682@reddit
Is there even any level of commitment/guarantees? What's stopping them from just hiring anyone when they have a slot?
Canadian_Beaverz@reddit
It’s like when prisons stop feeding prisoners food. Then they riot. But if you give them just enough, even if it’s a pile of shit, they’ll mostly stay in line.
AtmosphereMiddle1682@reddit
Oof.
Lost_Obligation2453@reddit
"go north" is code for "go anywhere that is awful, anyplace that normal people would choose not to go." Before you go, make sure you're the kind of person who can live in these places.
Can you preflight in a literal cloud of mosquito?
Can you smile if you haven't seen the sun in 6 months?
Can you fight? The locals can and they won't like you, and the line up at the liquor store is a dangerous place to be.
Instructing isn't that bad compared to what you're about to do, for some people. There is a reason that substance abuse is so common in these places.
Best advice, go live in a tent wherever you are for a month. If at the end of the month you are still a happy person, then the north is for you.
Brave_Recognition798@reddit
Nobody will even hire an instructor now
Lost_Obligation2453@reddit
So wait until later?
If nobody will hire instructors then you're fine. You have a pilot license, something no one will ever be able to get from here on out. That's almost guaranteed job security.
canuck791@reddit
What a stupid post.
Lots of jobs out there in towns with real hangars, yes like buildings! Lots of sunlight in the winter, it's cold but still clear. Never got in a single fight in 3 years in NWO.
It was a great experience living in a small town flying pieces of shit planes around in the soup. 1000x a better pilot for it.
City boys don't be scared by this poster.
Lost_Obligation2453@reddit
Of course they have buildings, what does that matter?
If you get sunlight in the winter you aren't "north" yet.
For every better pilot it makes, it also makes a drop out alcoholic.
You know as well as I do that very few city boys actually make it up there. It's a different lifestyle and it's really not for everyone.
canuck791@reddit
Ooooh you're one of those...
"if you still see sun it's not north"
I fly with guys like you and you're all miserable. The -40* plus windchill and daily snowstorms was more than "north" enough for me. Not to mention the polar bears.
F1shermanIvan@reddit
I work in Iqaluit. The sun still comes up in the winter. Barely. But it does.
Lost_Obligation2453@reddit
Hahah probably not.
It's ok bud. You can just look up the average hourly sunlight for these kinds of places. Hopefully OP has and he's thought about what 1 hour of sunset a day is like.
No offense, I don't call -40 plus windchill and daily snowstorms a "good experience". At least we can agree that living somewhere that experiences -40 and daily snowstorms is a terrible place to have to live.
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
What companies are doing good by new commercial pilots?
canuck791@reddit
Most of them, just go in with your eyes wide open.
Brave_Recognition798@reddit
Nobody will hire without ramping
canuck791@reddit
Everyone always says that. Back in 2012 too but suprise I found not one but three flying jobs (picked the best one). With 220 hours give or take.
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
OC you don’t want to fly for the airlines then don’t instruct
Brave_Recognition798@reddit
Nobody is hiring instructors?
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
Bush companies normally don’t
Brave_Recognition798@reddit
They don't hire anyone new lol!
Not sure if you count floats as bush but the operators I talked to (and know personally) said they wouldn't take someone who didn't have previous float experience since you might kill their customers
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
Well yeah they don’t have to . So many low timers around. Have you done a road trip? They want to see your face. They want to see you sleep in your car because you want the job so bad etc etc
Brave_Recognition798@reddit
Why would you ever want to work for someone who wants that out of you?
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
Well that’s how it is unfortunately. You can not do that and beg for advice on Reddit
Brave_Recognition798@reddit
Where was I begging?
I'm just stating in my experience nobody will hire someone who just got their float rating
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
Get a glider license. That actually helped me the most
Brave_Recognition798@reddit
How long did it take you?
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
To do what?
Commercial_Meat_8522@reddit
I flew floats so it must happen
DepartureKey7743@reddit
Go north. Cut your teeth with real world experience. Enjoy the adventure of starting your career in a place that will give you so much more experience than sitting in the right seat of a 172 telling someone what to do. There is good companies and bad companies. You'll 100% find yourself peeking over the fence and seeing a slightly greener patch of grass. Later down the road you'll look back at those days you spent up north freezing your bag off, proving yourself, throwing bags and moving boxes while you're sitting in a terminal with a warm coffee in your hand, wearing a fancy uniform and really think back on what that experience really provided you in your career. I did it, and would do it again if I could. Have fun.
Brave_Recognition798@reddit
Flying is a perishable skill, why waste it for 2+ years working minimum wage in -30?
DepartureKey7743@reddit
Fair thought, and I can fully see how that can be an issue for some trying to break into the industry. In my humble opinion, you're missing the point of it if you can't see the life experience gain and even more so the career experience to what it means to "go north". I've had colleagues of the age of 50 start on the ramp and make it into the right seat. If aviation is a race for you, definitely not the way to get after it. Sometimes you just have to sit back, relax, enjoy the ride my friend. Like you mentioned, flying is a perishable skill so might as well actually have fun while you can.
Brave_Recognition798@reddit
At the end of the day it’s a job, who will give up on things like parenthood etc to get what’s a job at the end of the day?
F1shermanIvan@reddit
What ratings do you have? IFR? Float? Nothing?
Yeah working the ramp has always been an “in” so it’s always said head to Ontario, Manitoba, the NWT, or Calgary for Borek and slave away in the office before getting an FA spot for a winter before you get on a Twin Otter or Basler.
703s are sketchy. They all are, just to varying degrees of sketchiness. If you don’t instruct, you’ll work for a 703 and do sketchy shit from time to time. That’s the job. It’s up to you to manage it, and yeah, you can get fired from places for saying no.
You’ll be a way better pilot, but that may or may not matter to you, or your future employer.
vARROWHEAD@reddit
Working ramp isn’t a guaranteed in though. Needs to be said
WhenInDoubtGoAround@reddit
I second this. I have a friend who insisted on the ramp route. She's been at it for about two years this spring and there's no hope for a FO position in sight in her company. At least I can see her changing her mind on flight instructing.
Brave_Recognition798@reddit
Wonder if we know the same person, it's her 2 years this week!
Brave_Recognition798@reddit
Nobody is 703 land is hiring without ramping afaik
threemilesfinal@reddit
Varies widely depending on the Operator.
Borek is an adventure. Keewatin is pretty large Medevac operator and has PC-24/C560s that you can upgrade to, Air Borealis is the wilds of Labrador on the Twotter... Or you can try bombing around in a 1900 and eventually an ATR at Wasaya. Even North Star Air with PC-12, Basler and ATR-72s.
I'm not going to badmouth anyone as it's a small industry and Mother always told me "If [you] can't say anything nice, say nothing at all."
(Conversely, I will speak very honestly about the places I've worked in DM.)
canuck791@reddit
SkyCare is a great place to work, one of the best first gigs you can get.
Early-Leg-2742@reddit
Until you’re heading into deer lake at 3am
canuck791@reddit
Only beat by Pikangikum.
dynamic_fluid@reddit
If instructing is not for you being a professional pilot might not he the career for you.
A professional pilot is either learning something or teaching something basically their whole career.
F1shermanIvan@reddit
I never instructed. I had way better experiences cutting my teeth in the bush, flying alone, and gaining actual experience, not flying around in circles all day.
Reasonable-Ad3997@reddit
OR maybe I don’t want to get in an airplane with someone who I know for a fact has never been in one before and may unintentionally (or intentionally) try to kill me, or shows up wildly unprepared every day, or have to tell a kid flying isn’t for them because they can’t grasp concepts and blow up their dream of being a pilot, or get treated like garbage by a predatory flight school owner, or fly with someone who’s only doing it for social media and wasting my time, or do spins 3 times in a day, or god forbid get hired anywhere near Brampton.
I was extremely lucky finding a job immediately after I finished. Had I not, I would’ve gone up north and worked on the ground for however long it took to get on an airplane. It has nothing to do with my capabilities as a professional pilot, I don’t want to teach brand new pilots. I want to learn and will absolutely teach a new pilot at a company what I know with pleasure to the best of my abilities, however, I don’t want to do it in a 1973 C172 N.
-burnr-@reddit
"If instructing is not for you being a professional pilot might not be the career for you."
Absolute rubbish
IJNShiroyuki@reddit
From what I heard recently hiring is tough. Some thousand hour instructor can’t even find a right seat turbine job. Two or three years ago jazz or porter will take this kind of guy in a heart beat. There is certainly bad operator out there, but good operator as well. Unless you have a specific company in mind, that’s the best answer you will get. Realistically, you take whatever job you got offered as a new pilot, instead of you picking jobs.
WhenWillIBeAPilot@reddit (OP)
I’m eyeing Kenn Borek
F1shermanIvan@reddit
Buckle up.
kaoandy1125@reddit
Idk your definition of good…but I know everyone says skyscare is bad…
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
The way they treat employees, flight time, good company management/policies, etc.
On the flip side, any company’s notorious for the same?
Please downvote this comment until it collapses.
Questions about this comment? Please see this wiki post before contacting the mods.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. If you have any questions, please contact the mods of this subreddit.