Why shops won't work on cheap ebikes
Posted by sailor_in_spirit@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 290 comments
Saw a thread recently with someone trying to find a shop to work on their ebike. Lots of misinformation from folks in the comments about why we at shops won't work on these no-name Amazon bikes. As a mechanic, the reasons are as follows:
1) Labor and profitability. Ebikes take much more work than regular bikes even without electronics issues. It's not uncommon for an ebike to spend multiple days in the stand. The shop rate in my area is ~$120/hr, meaning that your electrical issue should add up to thousands of dollars in labor or else the shop loses money. Nobody with an Amazon ebike is willing to pay that much money to get it fixed. Not to mention that smaller shops simply don't have the time and space for that.
2) Parts availability. We cannot get OEM or even compatible parts for these bikes through our suppliers. Sure they might be on AliExpress or whatever, but there's no way for us to make money off that without getting "it's cheaper online" from customers and then waiting a month (with your giant ebike taking up space) for it to arrive from China.
3) Ebike customers are the worst. Sorry, I said it, y'all need to temper your expectations. These things are more expensive to maintain than a regular bike by a wide margin. Ebikers tend to be clueless about maintenance which frequently creates additional $200+ problems.
Tl;Dr shops can't afford to work on your ebike on a charity basis and you're not ready for what profitable service rates look like.
Zentransit@reddit
REI will work on ebikes for the right price..
Zenigata@reddit
Surprised to see safety isnt on the list.
I wouldn't want to fill my business up with random, malfunctioning, internet ebikes.
lacticacid4breakfast@reddit
That's one of the big ones. Fires. There's been a number of shops that have burned down due to cheap ebikes.
HovercraftOne2275@reddit
Crazy Lenny's Ebikes burned to the ground some years back from battery fire.
UltimateGammer@reddit
Same, you don't really know if a bomb didn't just roll into your shop.
gzSimulator@reddit
I was gonna say that for the last 30 years, the normal reason a shop won’t work on your cheap bike is liability. Once they take that bike from you, they cannot legally hand you back an unsafe bike. We know you just want that one thing taken care of for cheap, but we can’t write the shop’s name on the receipt while there’s still a whole slew of stuff that could go wrong on the bike within the week
michaelhannigan2@reddit
This is false.
ViolinistSmooth2759@reddit
In Australia it is absolutely correct. We don’t have liability protection like car mechanics have, where the driver has responsibility for their vehicle, if the bike fails the shop is on the hook.
Graywulff@reddit
Safety and liability insurance.
bradland@reddit
This too. My local shop used to work on my Luna X-1. A couple of techs would get really excited when I brought it in, because they thought it was a very cool bike.
One day I roll it in and the tech says, "Oh hey man, you have to talk to Gary. Just a sec." Gary (the shop manager) walks over and explains that they can no longer work on my bike because their insurance policy just renewed and it restricts them from working on bicycles of any make that they don't sell. They had to provide a list of makes they sell, and my bike wasn't on it.
I really only used them for wheel work, so I just started bringing the wheels in separately, but it's something buyers need to be aware of. I'd only recommend buying online is you are able to do your own mechanic work.
BeSiegead@reddit
Assume the “only models they sell” referred specifically to e-bikes, no?
bradland@reddit
Not sure. I didn't ask. He just said that he had to provide a list of brands that they service to his insurer. I didn't ask him if it applied only to e-bikes, but I suppose it's possible it applies to all bikes.
Ol_Man_J@reddit
I have to assume so, since it would be high on impossible to have a service department with only the brands they sell. The drivetrains are "universal" for most standard bikes, so getting a shimano shifter for a giant vs shimano shifter for a trek doesn't change for the brand.
Zenigata@reddit
Some activities are so risky the premiums are too expensive though. Such as sailing a US oil tanker through the strait of hormuz or collecting random ebikes in a workplace.
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
It's somewhere on the list, this is a good addition. First and foremost, though, it's not profitable.
cleadus_fetus@reddit
A LBS that does accept outside bikes and scooter had a battery safe room and a 3rd party school caught fire over night in it. There wasn't much damage but the insurance made them close while the place was repainted.
Cargobiker530@reddit
Where was this?
mumwifealcoholic@reddit
I considered this. Which is why I bought my ebike from a local shop. It's gone in twice in 2 years for serrvice/repair.
Lajak_Anni@reddit
This is my plan.
I get it from your shop, I should expect you guys to be able to work on it. I dont think thats unreasonable.
HovercraftOne2275@reddit
BUT if it's a Trek shop you will pay out the &%(# for that service.
RealWeekness@reddit
is someone saying they don't?
Lajak_Anni@reddit
No. I'm just removing chances of failure.
My first EV was an e-move touring from voro motors...just before they discontinued it.
I had nowhere in town to fix it, maintenance was a nightmare, before you consider the design flaws that voro motors has went away from (thank god).
I don't plan on repeating that mistake. I will have a warranty, preferably one im willing to pay to extend, and a shop that knows the system and has parts on hand, or the ability to get them fast and not off temu.
RealWeekness@reddit
What are you riding now? Im looking to get my first e bike. Ideally one i can add a kid seat onto... Or, what's a good shop to check oit with lots of options?
Lajak_Anni@reddit
Whatever local. If they sell it, they should be able to service it.
Thats really all I can give you.
RealWeekness@reddit
Secret_Procedure8277@reddit
bro lowkey smart move gettin it from a local shop, way better than the amazon gamble
tokin247@reddit
Unless you're handy 😉
Demonslayer2011@reddit
If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy
Hashtag_Labotomy@reddit
Red green. Good show
tokin247@reddit
Ranccor@reddit
Not even low-key. It is the best choice for anyone that can do it that way. You also get to actually sit on the bike and make sure it feels good to you before buying it.
mataliandy@reddit
I bought my name-brand online from the maker, due to a wildly good closeout sale on the model. They shipped to a local shop who assembled it. I bring it to them for maintenance. Win-win. I didn't get to sit on it first, but I knew exactly which features I wanted, and it was the only one that fit the bill for me.
Amphorax@reddit
stfu bot
mmeiser@reddit
fwiw. I think you are right. Every comment is formulaic by that poster. It's a bot. For example every single comment from them starts with an acronym
buchenrad@reddit
It's why I learned how to work on a bike. It's not hard. And buying the specialty tools you need isn't any more expensive than the labor you'll spend at a bike shop. The only thing I still pay for is any spoke work more than minor tuning because ain't nobody got time for that. I can do it, but I'm incredibly slow compared to a professional.
toaster404@reddit
Its the proprietary electrics tucked away that prove demanding
Tathtaniel@reddit
Yeah, assuming you can even find the parts, which from what I've heard on these amazon e-bikes, isn't really easy (or even possible) sometimes.
Speedtospare@reddit
There's always a way. Most controllers are generic and there's others like it.
DogsRlife88@reddit
\^ This. People act like batteries and motor controllers are unobtainable. I guess I should work on ebikes cause so called "bike mechanics" can't handle touching a DMM and finding a part on Amazon
Z08Z28@reddit
You missed his entire point on profitability. They would have to let the bike take up space while they hunted down a part that might work and might fit. If the part didn't work or fit and the bike doesn't work then, when it comes time to pay the bill for trying the repair, it becomes all too easy for the customer to say "Whatever, I'm not paying you, keep that broken bike." Why would any shop want to take that gamble?
toaster404@reddit
It's the same in some other industries as well. Need to find a special kind of worker. A basket case specialist! Will never make any real money that way. Let alone cover a shop's overhead. I've turned away a lot of repair or rebuild projects. Now someone brings in an 18th C violin, I'll get into it! But commercially, only something like that makes sense unless it's something with certainty.
wheelstrings@reddit
Sure it's easy enough, but there's no money in it.
Amazon is not a part of your LBS's supply chain, so what are they supposed to charge for parts that they source through them? Should they keystone Amazon's price? That's real hard to explain to the customer. Believe me, I've tried...
Speedtospare@reddit
Not really. You're providing a service. Time, knowledge, labor is what you're charging for. If they want to provide the controller I offer zero warranty. I get controllers from various locations including Amazon.
wheelstrings@reddit
Are you charging extra for the service, or just loosing the money you'd otherwise make on parts?
Speedtospare@reddit
I make profits on the parts and the labor.
DeexEnigma@reddit
The parts are there. The liability and risk isn't. Insurers are very shy around the unknown and random Chinese e-motos etc. are full of the unknown. It's just not worth it at a business level.
In your own house / backyard though under your own time and efforts? They're a great option.
toaster404@reddit
Electronics are different from traditional bicycle mechanics. Nothing wrong with that. I do mechanical things by choice. I don't do eBike things because it doesn't appeal to me. If I really needed to fix something, I most likely could without issue, but I'd rather not!
mataliandy@reddit
But from a shop's perspective, if a dozen people come in with a dozen different models of generic ebike, in the time they'd spend just trying to track down, order, and wait for parts that fit to arrive, they could have turned around 5 or 6 dozen repairs on name-brand bikes.
It's a money losing time-suck for the shop, but probably a worthwhile investment for an individual.
maluket@reddit
Nothing is proprietary from Chinese bikes. Name brands are a closed system. Chinese ones are open system and very easy to work with.
toaster404@reddit
The only generic one I've had available to work on had stuff so tucked away I couldn't get it out!
I'm not going to personally work on any of these things, except mine, which is high-end and unlikely to fail.
Slow-Echidna-5884@reddit
YES
wdaloz@reddit
Theres a local lady here (cleveland oh) lizzyswheelsolutions but shes great and on instagram if you need wheels built or repaired
Significant-Rate-259@reddit
This was a major reason I just purchased my e-bike from a local dealer. Better to let them fight for warranty issues.
5ma5her7@reddit
I bought my ebike at my local chain bike store, I can get it serviced in basically anywhere in Australia.
Tizer887@reddit
Same here but in the UK bought from a Halfords store which is everywhere in the U.K and about a 5 minute ride from my house and not only are they close by to me but I paid £130 for like a 3 maintenance so for 3 years I get unlimited puncture repairs, unlimit d brake adjustments, unlimited bike check with tyre inflation and chain lubrication and a discount on any future services. So I can make sure this bikes well looked after and hopefully last me a few years.
Material_Slip5025@reddit
ngl that smart bro, way better than rollin the dice on some cheapo amazon bike
spacecoq@reddit
I bought a Miclon off Amazon 4 years ago.
It’s gone in for repair once due to my own negligence, and I ride the hell out of this bike.
CG_Ops@reddit
Same! I spent more than I originally wanted to on my Bulls eBike but there's literally not a single shop near me that I've spoken to that has even hinted at being unwilling to do any maintenance/repairs that I've requested.
Just about the only tweaks it's needed in the 10k km's I've put on it is derailleur adjustments. Hell, even with the 28mph unlock (via Volspeed) it hasn't had a single issue.
NOTE: Before the "modding bad" comments pour in - [I live in the country, with high winds and high speed traffic zipping by. I only exceed 20mph on sprints to get out of shoulder-less stretches of road, to minimize sections of 50-60mph cars buzzing me at... less than 3ft
thishasntbeeneasy@reddit
It's the difference between an actual bicycle and a compilation of metal with an electric motor powering spinny bits. A bike shop will have no issue working on the bike parts of a bike. They have no reason to work on bicycle-shaped object with proprietary parts.
ShowerNo4684@reddit
Fr you def made the right choice, better to pay upfront than deal with headaches later
kurisu7885@reddit
Same reason for me. Was a pain to find a shop that sells and services trikes I'll admit.
reilogix@reddit
This is the way.
FWYDU@reddit
A Trek shop worked on my Heybike, but it was just the regular mechanical bicycle parts that are on all bicycles. They won't work on any of the electrical stuff and I have to remove the battery for them to work on the mechanical stuff. Seems fair.
HovercraftOne2275@reddit
Our Trek shop WILL work on any of the proprietary motor brands like Bosch and Yamaha. They worked on (including updates) my Haibike which isn't sold in the US but has a Bosch drive setup.
rewt127@reddit
Probably pretty ready for shops to get access to Bosch and Yamaha service manuals. So they get all the torque specs, bolt sizes, etc. Meanwhile an Amazon bike? You are going in blind.
So it makes sense they will work on those bikes.
mataliandy@reddit
Several Trek models use Bosch motors, so the shop probably already has all the tools, or can easily source whatever they'd need.
HovercraftOne2275@reddit
yep
FWYDU@reddit
I just want to ad that my Heybike does it have any Bosch or Yamaha parts.
thaginganinja@reddit
Heybike and haibike are two different brands
FWYDU@reddit
Ah, I see
BeSiegead@reddit
Probably spend more time just figuring out what parts to order than the original purchase price.
dragonbud20@reddit
Did haibike stop selling in the US? That's a shame they were good bikes.
Extension_Treat4081@reddit
Our local shop have worked quite a bit on my wife's (now former) cheap ebike, they didn't complain about anything, also didn't care if the battery was mounted or not. They don't sell anything but semi pro and pro racebikes, so it isn't even their area, but they know what they are doing, so might just be a competence issue with some shops..
squidphillies@reddit
Sounds like a good market opportunity. Ebike repair which is focused on the system level support and not just the basics like brakes, suspension, and Drivetrain.
Ok-Winner-6485@reddit
For all 900 different brands? Importing generic components? Class legal in a given state? Insurance liability?
squidphillies@reddit
Ebikes sold more last year in Europe alone over bio bikes. Yes to everything you listed. You haven't a clue how many commuter ebikes are being sold.
jonnieggg@reddit
I have an e bike since 2017 with 10k kilometres on it and it has needed no repairs. Ezee know how to make solid bikes.
gnox0212@reddit
Yeah. I've got a 10yr old electric bike. It's in desperate need of a clean up and good overhaul.. I'm doing it myself but even starting with a battery before getting properly into it is $550.
So it's going to beban expensive etceven if I diy.
Primary_End_9903@reddit
As a fellow mechanic, this was beautifully put. Hope the word gets out.
tumalditamadre@reddit
I don't care what shop owner reads this. one shop wouldn't even sell me the tools to fix a flat tire when I bought a bike elsewhere. The tire came off the rim a little bit on one side and he wouldn't sell me the $2.00 tool to fix it. Bike shops are the absolute worst. Glad I learned how to do everything on my own and I'll never need to have a bike repaired by those elitists ever again.
Uhaul1995@reddit
Not all bike shops are equal.
But I've had the oposite bad experience: they were eager to sell me things but totally inept and wrong about what would work. Kept having to take things back cause they weren't working or didn't fit. One day I was told a part I was looking for didn't exist when I had litterally bought one there previously. I think my problem was that I wanted them to sell me things, but I wanted to install them myself.
Some shops are staffed with cool people who are excited about bikes and helping people.
Others exist for people with more money than time (or knowledge).
TJBurkeSalad@reddit
Bike shops still have their place, but I tend to agree with your comment.
KathrineKinkel@reddit
Choosing an e-bike with a strong dealer network and readily available parts ensures easier maintenance and service.
boshbosh92@reddit
Yeah, I told my local bike shop I assumed they weren't interested in working on mine because of profit. I told him to charge me whatever he needs to charge me. He fixed my tire lol
For me personally, I'm a mid 30 something adult well into my career with no kids. I have disposable income and I don't want to work on my bike. Please take my bike and charge me triple what you'd charge a normal bike - or literally whatever lol. I know I know, I'm in the minority of people.
SlenderLlama@reddit
I feel like in biking there’s a lot of people in your situation. “Just make the issue go away and I’ll pay because I’ve worked hard and can afford a tiny inconvenience” is the energy I read. Nothing wrong with that either. It just is what it is.
boshbosh92@reddit
Yep. Normally I'm mechanically inclined. I'm an electrician for a rental property company that builds houses and rents them out. I have built 13 houses from start to finish with a crew of 8 people. I've done everything involving a house. I am good at solving problems with houses, plumbing and electrical.
But when it comes to fixing things with wheels that move, it's like I turn into a bowl of jello. It is honestly frustrating lol
sanjuro_kurosawa@reddit
I'll jump in here as a bike shop professional. You sound like an excellent customer, knowledgeable about your own ebike and how to talk with, ie negotiate, with bike shop employees.
Not every customer is reasonable: they may not recognize the cost involved for any repair, the effort and time to diagnose the wide variety of ebikes, and the uncertainty in completing a repair which includes parts availability.
Conversely many shops are completely dismissive of ebike owners, specifically when it is a brand which they do not sell. They may be rude but the bottom line is even if they are pleasant, there is still a work refusal.
Analog bikes almost all share the same designs and components, which can be sourced from traditional wholesalers. That cannot be said of all ebikes.
It's not simply that ebikes may be harder to work on; but labor costs go up, can that be relayed to a customer in the form of an estimate and will the customer be willing to pay for it is the challenge.
mzdameaner@reddit
As a person not mechanically inclined I also show up and say just take my money 😂😂
BazzaFox@reddit
I don’t even have to ask them to take my money, they do anyway.
EvenPass5380@reddit
Just asking as an old guy out of touch with reality, but is the going rate $120 an hour to work on an e bike?
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
For any bike. Both places I've worked, a premium tune-up takes about an hour and costs about that much. Everything else is benchmarked off the tuneup in terms of pricing.
EvenPass5380@reddit
Thanks!!!!
KI6WBH@reddit
Can I ask you a mechanics question then? Since you seem to work on e-bikes or are you just using your car mechanic knowledge as a parallel.
If I asked you as a ebike mechanic to run a USB line through the conduit that runs through my bike main body would you be able to do it?
(Currently I have it zip tied to the outside but it would look a lot cleaner if it went through the channel with every other cable)
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
I work at a bike shop and I've been servicing ebikes for years. My knowledge of cars ends after oil changes.
Depends on the ebike and time of year. It's a winter project, not something I'd do right now when everyone is digging their bikes out of the basement. I'd do it to a Bosch for sure since I'm familiar with those and I know there's an extra power rail for it. For anything we don't have direct dealer support for, it'd probably be a no. I want to know for sure that I can fix any electronics issue that crops up in the process.
KI6WBH@reddit
It's A rad runner plus 2025, and all the electronic cables and control happened behind the pedal in a plastic channel that goes up through the front riser to the handlebars where there's another hole in the frame I was just wondering how hard it would be do you think to run like fish tape through that hole and through the channel that the other wires are running through to pull like a USBC cable through? Cuz right now it's just kind of zip tied on the outside
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
I looked up your call sign and looks like you're in California. I'd bet you can find someone out there to do it, it just might take some patience
KI6WBH@reddit
Ahh you know the hidden in plain sight if you know how to look secret of ham radio 🤣😉
And yeah If I can I'll run the UHF line through it as well so that everything looks nice and clean currently both wires are zip tied and I do have a full half Wave 2m Whip on the back of the rack of the red runner Plus 2025 (took the banana seat off).
I do have from my previous bike set up a trailer that has a ft857 and mounting bracket for atas-120 (max transmit of 15w). Just had to run the head up to the handlebars
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
What're you running for a UHF? Off the bike battery or its own power?
KI6WBH@reddit
yaesu VX-8R, I do have a USB charger for it but that takes a long time so I have multiple batteries and it sits in the front bottle rack spot. And I run Bluetooth. The whip I use is a tri-band
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
Probably doable! In theory this or something like it is what those holes are there for.
Rad was usually quite helpful about sending parts when we called them with issues. Now with them gone belly-up I'd be more hesitant to work on it.
KI6WBH@reddit
Yeah I was just wondering if it would be something that would be attemptible because having all the zip ties kind of collects road dust
And thank you very much for your expertise
(Also when I bought it in November I'd had no idea they were shutting down but the specs matched what I wanted a heavy-duty cargo bike and it's been like a shining star compared to the others who owns ebikes and scooters at my work)
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
If you were a customer who called in, I'd say bring the bike by and we'll take a look at what you have going on. No promises until I see the bike!
hakapes@reddit
So basically you don't work on it because customers won't pay the amount for your labour, storage, and effort that you want them to pay.
Fair enough.
nightstorm52@reddit
US margins on ebikes are 20-30%. We'd be a lot more profitable at 40%.... I wish it was 40% now I'm sad.
hakapes@reddit
I guess it depends on the shop, the brand, the models, if you give a discount, and how you negotiate. From 40 %, you can give a discount of 5-10% routinely.
DanFromBoston@reddit
Perhaps a dumb question, why is it more work than regular bikes even without electronics issues? If I'm bringing it in for general tune up and keeping the battery at home, how is it different than a tune up on a regular bike? Not disagreeing, just curious!
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
Internal cable routing, hub motors that need to be dropped, etc. there's more stuff packed in there as the other commenter says.
weggaan_weggaat@reddit
Not a bike mech by trade but I've done my share of wrenching around co-ops and also have my own ebike. The ebikes can often be more packaged and packaged tighter such that it takes longer to do an equivalent service item, even something seemingly as simple as changing a tire.
green-mape@reddit
120 an hour for multiple days just to swap parts….
Do you have a learning disability?
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
Nothing diagnosed. I know how long ebike repairs take and the $120 figure is based off of multiple local shops' rates. I'm sorry if labor rates being different in different places is difficult for you to wrap your head around. The shop rate has all our overhead baked in, and based on what us mechanics see at the end of the day it's not really enough. If you don't value services being provided to you by professionals, go learn to do it yourself.
green-mape@reddit
There are few places in the world with higher COL than where I reside (not a flex this shit sucks), $120 an hour on a single customer to make a profit is a failed business.
“Professionals” you fix bikes lol. That is unskilled labor. You are literally a part swapper calling yourself a mechanic.
“I know how long repairs take” and charging 120 an hour for multiple days of labor? You don’t even know a bicycle works LMAO.
green-mape@reddit
There’s just no way this isn’t all bots… mfers are talking about torque specs for a bike.
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
I hope you're trolling
funcentric@reddit
100%, I was also going to say that th type of person buying Amazon or Walmart bikes aren’t really the type of customers you’d want in the first place. Those types of buyers don’t make the best customers.
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
Some folks in the comments are mad about this one but it's absolutely true. If you spent less than $1k on the bike, chances are you're going to balk at whatever repair estimate I give you.
funcentric@reddit
Yes, it’s also true that most new adult ebike buyers haven’t ridden a bicycle in 20 years. They’re not going to know much about bike repairs and definitely not familiar with the work required to even know remotely the costs.
Fit_Ad6025@reddit
Truth
PipeLong5050@reddit
Bike shop owner chiming in here!
Basically, I'm willing to work on anything that comes in as long as they understand what it will cost. My labor rate for electric is higher ($150/hr vs $120 for analog) partly due to the fact that I'm pretty much the only person who has a background in electronics and partly due to the liability. When things are capable of everyday speeds of 30mph with riders that aren't engaged or experienced, it opens a door for potential issues.
I'm sure that other people have a different philosophy, but to me, this is a bike shaped object with the lowest common denominator of parts and since it is being ridden at pro level speeds, it has to meet or be as close to the same standards as bikes of much higher quality out of the box. This can include brake mount facing, replacing shoddy bearings in the hubs and headset, etc. It would be easy to just say "it's good enough because it's a POS anyway" but I won't have that.
The biggest problem I see is with the suspension on a lot of the Amazon specials making them even sloppier and heavier than they would already be. This is something I can't do much about. I can make sure that when they leave, they're likely leaving better than they arrived to the customer.
Electronics aren't proprietary, but be prepared to get charged for a new display and ancillary components if I replace a controller. Often times, you won't be able to find pinouts for the stock controller and It can be time consuming to try out different configurations for things like hall sensors. I usually keep complete "conversion kit" of a few different varieties and just swap all the electronics sans battery and motor. it's faster and easier. For mid drives, I will work on whatever as long as I can get parts from the manufacturer or places like QBP.
Hub motors I typically won't service, and it's more cost effective to just buy a replacement wheel or even entire kit TBH. I try to save customers money, and if I can bang out replacing the guts of the bike with everything that is plug and play in an hour, I'd rather charge you 150 and have you on your way than milk it and make more work for myself.
For parts I also have pretty transparent pricing. I round up, but the margins are much slimmer than you would expect. For example, if a set with controller, display, etc are 80, I just charge 100. It's really a small convenience fee like a restaurant plate sharing fee. We make our money other things and in other ways.
But yeah, I think the best analogy here is that it takes the same amount of effort to change the brake pads on a Corolla as a Ferrari, but if that Corolla is as fast as a Ferrari, you have to do extra work to make sure it can stop like one. Lot of times I'm using swissstop or galfer pads, magura rotors etc. I'll make your shit work, but I'll only do it on my terms
Ok_Reward4842@reddit
We do repairs but yes we lose on revenue. I do it to help keep them from becoming trash. I don't always have a fix but we do our part
Trellaine201@reddit
I think it's a liability issue.
meratherbebikin@reddit
I know a guy who runs a business and he said it’s about insurance.
pleakonfleek@reddit
That is probably true. Leaving a half dozen ebikes in the shop, potentially of unknown battery quality or UL-certification, would be kind of risky. Seems like they could stash the batteries outside in a locked metal cabinet or something and just bring them in when they need to test. You'd probably make a killing opening an ebike repair shop and only working on them. I get they are more complicated and take more time, but if people don't want to pay it, they'll move on. But on my bike, everything except the hub motors, battery and controller are off the shelf bicycle parts - shimano shifters, gears, brakes.
Fixing electronics issues and tracing wires and troubleshooting is probably not in the wheelhouse of most bike mechanics, and when they can't fix it, it probably looks bad, so they just opt not to work on them at all.
BeSiegead@reddit
People with the random brand, cheap as hell, online e-bikes aren’t willing to pay fairly for work on these. Thus, no “killing” to be made.
And, if not done with a sizable deposit, bet shop would soon end up with lots of random, mediocre e-bikes left by people not willing to pay the repair bill
pleakonfleek@reddit
Right, because bike mechanics don’t have experience with electronics. The ones that do will make a killing because normal bike shops turn away the average ebike owner. It’s not like nobody is going to fill the demand. The same way a typical auto mechanic probably won’t do most work on an electric vehicle. They don’t have that skill set yet.
Puzzled-Rip641@reddit
No it’s a math issue.
We gave the same issue with electric cars.
The bike cost 1,500. The repair costs $450-$650. That’s roughly 1/3 of the bike cost in repairs. Half of all people are going to see that repair cost and go “I’ll just buy another”.
The math just doesn’t make sense
BeSiegead@reddit
The cheap Amazon bike cost $600 and a reasonable cost for repair is >$1k. Shop is left with essentially worthless bike
lFightForTheUsers@reddit
This right here. It's like the GPU question of how do you fix a broken GPU? Well for a lot of people the answer is throw it out and go buy another when they cost less than a grand and repairs would require a massive amount of soldering and testing memory modules.
In that example, a shop in China proved that it is technically possible, but the labor cost is so high to do it between soldering with specialized techniques and hardware and testing that it isn't worth doing, unless it is in an area with lower labor costs like here.
Since I do a lot of stuff with both tech and bikes I see a similar problem with ebikes and repairs. Simple things like a brake pad swap or flat repair are easy enough. But as soon as something is wrong with the electronics side like the motor or controller because it was not taken care of well or bad quality to begin with (like amazon D2C models), the labor cost in an average American bike shop or hell even a hobbyist electrician shop will far outweigh the cost of the bike itself.
I like to joke in our shop sometimes when gently turning people down that some repairs we can't do because you almost need 2 people to work on them - a bike tech and a low voltage electrician with soldering iron and tools if it's anything electronics. We can generally work on anything mechanical like those simple repairs listed above, but that's about it.
BeSiegead@reddit
Just trying to figure out what the problem is -- before even figuring out parts, ordering them, having bike sit in shop for days/weeks waiting for parts -- probably costs more in labor than the 'value' of the bike in our throwaway economy.
Sadly, really should have circular economy regulations re e-bike sales -- and throw-away Amazon crap shouldn't be on the market. Perhaps raising the average upfront cost but lowering life-cycle costs for individuals (on average) and society (through lower waste, etc ...).
Re 'extended warranty': Our family bought three e-bikes at REI in no small part because of the, in essence, two-year extended warranty structure along with a lot of included maintenance. My bike (a Cannondale) had problems. Cannondale was being so bad with the REI team that they cannabalized another bike and probably replaced >$1k in parts before even talking labor. My cost for this: $0. (Have had other things that we paid for but, honestly, the higher-upfront buying from the LBS (in the specific case, REI with a good bike shop crew) more than paid off.) Re 'LBS', the REI is a few miles away. The only small shop that I seriously considered a (different) bike from is 20+ miles away -- considering what traffic can be, being in biking / short drive range was definitely a factor in the decision.
pleakonfleek@reddit
If you take the motor, battery, controller and frame out of the equation, fixing brakes, chains, gears, shifters, the usual bike maintenance is all the same though right? Changing the tires is basically the same except unplugging the motor power wire. 90% of the work seems like it would be on standard bicycle components, so I don’t get why the response isn’t “yeah bring it in, leave the battery at home and we can work on it, but we don’t diagnose or repair the electrical drivetrain”I’m a web dev for my day job and people ask for all kinds of crazy stuff and I’ll just say I’m comfortable doing x, y, and z, but I’m not comfortable doing this, and they either accept it or find someone who will do it
BeSiegead@reddit
Issue is, from what I've heard, insurance -- DO NOT HAVE anything (e-bike) in your shop that we don't explicitly cover or, well, you void your insurance coverage if something happens. The reality and (perhaps/likely) exagerrated reporting of e-bike fires / risks certainly freaked out many (insurers).
Busy_Reporter4017@reddit
There are good GPU fixers on YouTube. It's a rare skill.
skilltheamps@reddit
It is not really a math issue. At least for cheap trash ebikes from Amazon, that come with terrible components that break early and require much manual work to replace. The buyers don't fall victim to math or the bike shops, they fall victim to these sellers. They don't realize though because they think thanks to Amazon they can afford an ebike at all, while in reality they shell out money to the richest man in the world for these maintenance nightmares that swiftly become unusable and worthless.
Quality ebikes often are very expensive, and I think many are too expensive. Especially since they're not just fun gimmicks but real utility vehicles they should be much more affordable. But don't be fooled into thinking that those flashy Amazon pictures and a very low price point would represent better value.
Getting actual value for reasonable price is tricky though. Used quality bike, sales at actual bike shops, or learning and building yourself are some of the ways I think.
killdyl@reddit
As OP said, it’s about profitability, not “looking bad.” It’s expensive for the customer to have a mechanic learn on the fly, it would be hourly shop rate, which again, is about $120 an hour. Most ebikers won’t be interested, much less someone with a $300 ebike. Not worth haggling with you guys, easier just to say no and spend our time on profitable work.
And from the mechanic’s standpoint, electricians get paid like the trade it is. Bike wrenches get…discounts on parts. I make the same hourly rate even if you spend 4 hours of labor on it. The fuck do I care? Pay for the work or don’t, but don’t blame me because the shop charges what it charges
Nobody_Important@reddit
I think they’d be more worried about the bike malfunctioning later and someone coming after the shop financially saying it was due to the repair, since they definitely wouldn’t be getting anything out of the manufacturer.
Ohm_Slaw_@reddit
Electronics follows the "you touch it, you own it" rule. People have an expectation that these ebikes will be trouble free. Why, I have no idea. When you fix a shifter and 3 months later a hall sensor goes out, it's somehow your fault.
pleakonfleek@reddit
Wouldn’t that be true of non electric bikes though too?
larzlarce@reddit
Hmm shops that don't work on ebikes are missing a huge market as they are taking over as people's main type of bike. In my city shops have adapted and work on everything.
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
Repairing quality ebikes for understanding customers is totally worthwhile. The cheap stuff is just literally not worth our time.
larzlarce@reddit
Great but if you did that where I live you'd likely go under like the rest of them as people are poor. So at least half of the customers would be alienated. Where I live companies usually repair everything electronic including electric scooters. A lot of those cheap Chinese bikes don't have proprietary parts.
SilverSolver2000@reddit
See I'm broke and I am an engineering major, so I just fix my 'cheap' bike myself. Though I recognize that not everyone is able to do that. On the other hand, everyone should know basic maintenance at least.
rja49@reddit
I bought an ebike from 99bikes in Adelaide, one of their own brands. Paid extra for a service package and missed my last service by 2x weeks after the time ran out, my bad. They then charged me $270 for a service that basically just adjusted the brakes, everything was already working fine, chain was in good shape, no electrical issues etc. I bought a brake kit and replacement pads on line for $60. Lesson learned, I'll not be going back now my warranty has run out.
JSSOnTheRun@reddit
I hear these explanations from bike shops all the time and it’s all a bunch of smoke! The simple truth is these shops are “service centres” (not repair shops) for the bikes they sell. Like car companies who make most of their profits from selling cars, and accordingly won’t service other brand cars, bike shops who sell bikes want to discourage you from buying bikes from somewhere else. There are Independent “actual” “repair shops” that will work on all bikes (just like independent auto repair shops that work on any foreign car). They also like to say imported or cheap bikes are unsafe. The fact of the matter is that most all U.S. “made” bikes are only assembled in the U. S. They have the same Chinese parts.
Don’t be fooled by all the scare tactics into buying a bike from anywhere but them. Yes there are garbage Chinese bikes (just as there are garbage U.S. bikes) but Chinese made bikes are only cheaper because of the labour savings not because of the quality of parts. Choose a bike you like and then find an actual bike “repair” shop to service your bike. They’re out there.
SilentReporter7625@reddit
I was going to get a cheap one to make sure I'll use it like I think I will. I have an autoimmune condition. I can get into really good exercise habits and then I flare and it throws me off for months. Im thinking if I get an ebike, I can still stay in my routine. If I stick to it with a cheap bike, then Ill get the more expensive one.
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
Not a terrible option as long as you understand the limitations of the budget thing
SilentReporter7625@reddit
Ive been doing the some research (in addition to reading reddit). Going to go to some.bike shops as well
Ur-in-a-tor@reddit
I took my ride for a brake check and the mechanic did not realize it was an electric bicycle before I mentioned it on my way out. Minus the battery and the motor, my bike is just typical bicycle parts, so fairly easy to maintain.
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
The non-electric parts are often still fair game for some shops. It kinda depends.
loquacious@reddit
This gets overlooked that cheaper parts and frames make it more difficult, take longer and increase the chances of things breaking when you're working on a bike, ebike or not.
It's not just about the components themselves, but also how they are mounted and attached.
Cheap DTC ebike frames are horrible to work on. Not only are the components terrible but all of the threaded bolt holes and mounting points on the bike frame itself are horrible, or the frame design itself is also bad and awkward without good "human engineering" for tool clearances to actually work a bike.
So simple jobs can take 2-3 times as long just because it takes longer to not cross-thread every shitty, badly machined bolt on the bike. Or things break that shouldn't break, or get cross-threaded and need repair with a tap or die chase.
Working on a bad bike is like... i don't know... trying to play with a bunch of melted and cracked Lego pieces or rusty Mechano parts. Things don't fit right or well and it's just extremely frustrating.
By comparison working on almost any decent "real" bike from a real bike maker is like working with brand new Lego Technic bricks or a finely engineered Swiss watch. Parts just go together with ease. Screw/bolt holes and threads are chamfered and chased so screws and bolts don't cross-thread and go in like warm butter on toast. Things don't break.
This is why so many bike shops now charge more for working on third party or DTC ebikes if they work on them at all.
Yes, insurance and liability is a huge part of it.
Yes, random aliexpress grab bag non-standardized electronics issues are a huge part of it too.
But the other huge part of it is that many of these bikes are very VERY badly constructed and are a huge pain in the ass to work on and a liability to the shops even when everything goes ok.
And people hate hearing this about their bike and take it personally.
The thing is, unless you've actually worked on nicer bikes as a rider/owner or mechanic? You won't really have any idea what we're talking about when we talk about build quality issues like this.
The first time I built up a bike from a good brand new steel frame I damn near happy-cried just because of how damn nice and pleasant the experience was and how easily all of the parts went together the right way every single time.
It felt like I was like going from wrenching on beat up old lawnmowers to working in an Formula One engineering lab where all of the tools live in labeled drawers.
It was a whole different world. And the only thing that changed was a slightly nicer bike frame from a slightly nicer maker.
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
This might make the point better than my original post. There are lots of great reasons not to work on these things, but it all boils down to it being too much pain in the ass to be worth it.
loquacious@reddit
Yeah, this point is missed on a lot of people who are new to bikes.
All of that fit and finish detail stuff matters A LOT when it comes to the quality of a bike, even if you're not planning on working on it yourself.
I have seen $1000-ish ebikes with $500 repair bills just to fix a flat tire, just because it took that much longer to get the wheel out of the frame because it was a crappy bike frame with a bad design.
On any decently normal bike that's a 15 minute and maybe $15 dollar job to get a new tube installed.
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
My shop even just charges an additional flat-rate "hub motor drop fee" to recoup some of the costs there
loquacious@reddit
Some of those bench seat hub drive moped bikes have the absolute worst frame designs I've ever seen.
Hey, cool, you have to take apart the whole back end of your bike and remove your brake calipers and sub-frame and THEN pull your hub motor and wiring harness out of all that just to change a tube or a tire.
FuckedUpYearsAgo@reddit
3) Ebike customers are the worst
Last bullet point of yours seems to boil it down.
Axe to grind .
Busy_Reporter4017@reddit
So insist on changing the bolts. 🤔
loquacious@reddit
I'm talking about the quality of the tapped bolts or inserts welded on a bike frame.
Busy_Reporter4017@reddit
Got it
vivaaprimavera@reddit
As long as they are standard, and not some unholy mix of "what's the cheapest available" parts, no?
Epledryyk@reddit
yeah, does your ebike use shimano parts or shimshong parts?
because one of those they have on the wall already
rollin_a_j@reddit
My cheap af Amazon bike says Shimano on the shifter. Is this what I wanted to hear?
BastianHill@reddit
"It's not uncommon for an ebike to spend multiple days in the stand. The shop rate in my area is \~$120/hr, meaning that your electrical issue should add up to thousands of dollars in labor"
Sorry, but European ebike mechanic here. This is nuts. No bike is in repair for an excess of 4 hours, only when waiting on parts or doing a total Bosch engine revision.
It's not rocket science, it's a bike with a motor, a battery and a control unit. The only way it gets expensive, is when we need a genuine new battery or engine. Also complete wheels with hub and gears are a bit expensive, but that's it. I wouldn't dare to charge thousands. That's new bike territory.
ViolinistSmooth2759@reddit
We stopped working on scooters because of flats - the time it took to swap a tube in a hardwired wheel with a built in motor was at least 2 hours. On some we had to disassemble the wheel to get a tube in without pinching it because things were so out of spec. We couldn’t really charge $300 for a fly repair, especially since we briefly sold the scooters thanks to a dumbass manager. I know it’s scooters but the principle holds.
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
The Bosch stuff is great and we'll happily work on that. It's these cheap bikes with huge hub motors that become a pain in the ass quickly.
Noisycarlos@reddit
My understanding is that in some cases insurance is a big issue as well.
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
It's definitely one issue, and it's an easy line that ends the conversation. "Sorry, there's no negotiating on this one, my insurance doesn't allow it."
edgecelize@reddit
I'm a shop here, the main reason we don't work on cheap bikes is because the customer can't afford the repair, reapairng then it's pretty simple and the simplest what is to just swap out the electronics new controller, harness, and display the rest is either universally compatible or they just need to be re wired, pretty simple, problem is the changes that but these cheap bikes can't afford better bikes, and so the repair that comes with cheap bikes are simply out of the customers budget, even if you CAN source original parts, that are sometimes absurdly marked up from the brand that you now have to attend time to find the generic equivalent, and when you can't, now you need to swap everything over, even at the most minimal of work it's simply not worth it, and often times those bikes are in such deplorable condition that replacing ask the electricals doesn't mean it's safe to ride regardless, and no shop will risk that, I've turned away plenty of customers who's scooters and bikes can be repaired but simply isn't worth it and the graves are mechanically un face too continue riding.
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
Second half of your comment especially hits the nail on the head. We spend all this time trying to make these things work and there's still a good chance that they simply won't.
edgecelize@reddit
How ever i will give it a quick look over just to see if the other is simple sometimes it's just a new throttle or key ignition and it's simple and safe enough to fix it
Ok-Committee3163@reddit
Yeah, I was one of those guys calling bike mechanics "elitist " and I stand by that. I honestly don't mean it as a personal insult, but it's the whole aura surrounding the retail bike industry. You gotta have a high dollar bike or it's a piece of crap. I call bs on that and so do a lot of other people. It's a first world issue for sure. If it isn't profitable or even costs the shop actual dollars to devote time to a generic bike/ebike, then just explain that to the customer (potential customer) rather than "we don't do that". Personally, I don't understand how a person doesn't have basic maintenance or fix-it skills for something as simple as a bicycle to begin with, but there are all kinds of people out there so...
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
I'm absolutely here for more people knowing how to work on their own stuff. Makes owning a bike much less expensive. What you do to your own off-brand ebike is between you and God. They can absolutely be maintained, it's just not practical in most shops.
camasonian@reddit
The motor went out on my Specialized Turbo Vado. Some internal gears got thrashed, I don't exactly recall what it was.
I was very glad I had bought it from a local Specialized shop which managed to replace the motor on warranty at no cost to me. But it still took them 2 weeks.
I can normally do my own wrenching on the analog parts of my bike. Part of my misspent youth was working as a bike mechanic while in college. But despite having my own repair stand and about $1500 worth of Park tools, I have zero idea how to work on e-bike motors, or even where to start.
lFightForTheUsers@reddit
That's awesome that they have the tools and space to work on the motor directly, let alone the staff with knowledge. For a lot of bike shops where I'm at their off the books policy is basically "throw it in the gutter and go buy another" for anything electronics related.
I can't afford it yet so I make do with tuning my name brand at least D2C, but long term if I had the money and didn't have the hands I would highly suggest buy from a LBS. Trek or Specialized are the two best for that option. Or if not available at least get the extended warranty with it when you buy at LBS so that if something breaks you can throw it at them and say here this your problem now 😆
camasonian@reddit
Well, it was an e-bike store in Portland. That's all they do, sell and work no e-bikes. But I think all they did was pull the motor apart, see that it was thrashed, and get a new replacement from Specialized.
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
Don't call me out like that 😭
volkinaxe@reddit
made my one so no glued in parts all ez to replace any thing
don_stouder_photo@reddit
Cue laugh track. Every bike mechanic in my area will work on any bike you bring them. There is a lot of BS flying around out there to get you to spend more than you need to for an ebike. If you spend more than 1200 on a new ebike you are getting ripped off.
TJBurkeSalad@reddit
Word
Repulsive_Aside_4122@reddit
Damn right.
FluffyReflection3847@reddit
The only way a bike shop will work on an e-bike is if you bought it from them,or it is a brand name that they have knowledge of. I know this first hand. I had a Fucare Libra. The employee said they couldn't work on it because they don't have the research of the ebike. So I watched the tutorials of the Fucare e-bike. So I could buy the parts and fix the issues myself. In 2 years that I had the ebike. I had to replace both tires,the tube 4 times,and had to buy a new rear hub. I have since then sold that bike and bought a VeFreedom City Rang 4.0
TJBurkeSalad@reddit
I would be pretty upset if a shop wasn’t willing to change the tires and tubes on any bike.
nwrighteous@reddit
Fucare sounds like a curiously ironic name for a bike that no shop will work on.
FluffyReflection3847@reddit
I bought the ebike bike at a pawn shop for $700. It had 800 miles on it. I sold it for $500 with 8,800 miles on it.
Flashy_Number_6440@reddit
They're definitely a lot more expensive to maintain and get work done than a regular bike and that was something I was not aware of as an e-bike owner. Took my Lectric into my local bike shop to get it checked up and the brake pads replaced - $250. Double what I'd pay for a similar service on my Cannondale, but...it makes sense. It's a big bike, lot of different parts that my Cannondale doesn't have - including completely different brakes.
I will say, if someone wants an electric bike - do not just buy anything on Amazon. I did a lot of research because I wanted an ebike to replace trips in my car and transit. I spoke with the local bike shop to see which electric bikes they do work on and Lectric was one of them and already on my list of brands I was watching.
TJBurkeSalad@reddit
Pads should be like $25 for 3 sets on Amazon. That’s highway robbery
willydynamite1@reddit
$250 for brake pads on a Lectric is a complete rip off. Pads are about $20 and it takes under 20 minutes to change. Just watch a youtube video and do it yourself.
dallascyclist@reddit
Depends on which model. One of them you have to disassemble the entire thing and re-true the single sided calipers. Easily a couple hours of shop time in it if done correctly- the trike is bad too.
Beginning_Engine_391@reddit
I’ve built a couple of ebikes with kits installed onto traditional bikes. My first (15 heats ago) was a front drive kit on a Cannondale Bad Boy that used for a a commuter and my second was a Bafang mid-drive on a Cannondale Jekyl for fun.
While I can handle some basic bike wrenching, I would occasionally take these bikes to my LBS for more advanced stuff that I wasn’t comfortable it equipped to tackle myself, like bleeding brakes, trueing wheels, etc.).
I would never expect my LBS to diagnose and service the Frankenstein motor/battery that I decided to kluge onto my bike. That’s what the ebike forums are for.
lFightForTheUsers@reddit
Honestly yes, ebike customers are the worst. And I say that as a bike mechanic that takes my butt to work on an ebike every day lmao 😆
A lot of maintenance needs are different on ebikes and riders are often caught unaware. On mine at least, compared to my normal 14 speed:
KostyaFedot@reddit
Nobody wants to spend time on junk.
Because results are unknown and it is impossible to give warranty on repair.
I have seen it with film cameras.
Normaly made cameras are accepted for service, but not Soviet made. Because too many variabilities and quality issues. And even if you fix it, it might crap out fairly quickly.
Ol_Man_J@reddit
You can change the title from ebikes to "wal mart bikes" and it will be true 90% of the time - as you said "nobody wants to spend time on junk".
KostyaFedot@reddit
I quit from Walmart bicycles before they started selling e-bikes. Their regular bicycles served our family well and been serviceable. One I got from Alibaba was worse.
Ol_Man_J@reddit
Sure, but the labor rates and parts will often outcompete the price. People get frustrated with a $300 repair bill on a $299 bike, obviously if you’re servicing them yourself you can do what you want.
KostyaFedot@reddit
Not my family experience with Walmart bicycles and LBS.
In fact, I only got frustrated once... with Canadian Tire bicycle from 2003. After two decades of periodicall use, it started to fall apart :)
chris_p_bacon1@reddit
A independent bike mechanic near me told me it was due to insurance coverage. All I wanted him to do was what he'd do in a normal service (index the gears, adjust the brakes etc.) but he said insurance wouldn't cover it. I even offered to remove the battery but he still didn't want a bar of it. I'm capable of doing it myself but just don't have the time.
iamhove@reddit
I bought a bike new from local shop and added a Bafang mid drive. Now they've refused to work on it for simple things like replacing chain and freewheel.. if it goes near the motor, they won't touch. I'm lucky they'll deign to fix flats..
haoqiebike@reddit
You’re not refusing to work on those bikes out of snobbery—you’re refusing because the business model doesn’t work. A shop that loses money on every Amazon e-bike repair won’t be around to service the high-end e-bikes that do keep the lights on.
If more e-bike buyers understood that a cheap bike often has higher long-term service costs than a more expensive one with local dealer support, they’d make different choices. But until then, threads like the one you saw will keep popping up—and mechanics will keep explaining the same hard truths.
Thanks for sharing your side. It’s a conversation the industry needs to have more openly.
harryhov@reddit
My LBS said they initially were part of aventons network but stopped because they had racks of bad batteries and motors and didn't know what to do with them. It just wasn't a good partnership so they stopped selling and servicing them.
mmeiser@reddit
Mechanic. We will work on anything, but not third party ebikes. To many horror stories and we aere just enabling. It sucks having to go with the dealer model but the endless china direct amazon stuff was the end of the line. The car tire shop around the corner will change flats si we sell them a tube and send them over there. What we sell is highly competitive but we stick to best of quality stuff. Our top ebike specific brand is volotric, but every brand we sell has ebikes now.
There is absolutely a disconnect from what people thing an enike should cost and what it does. Always has been with walmart bikes. Itcs just now people are wasting $500-900 instead of $150. It's sad because a huge percentage of cheap ebikes go straight to landfill in 5-8 years. Atleast cheap non-ebikes didn't just die. They could be maintained. These cheap ebikes. You break something electronic and after three years you can't even get parts.
My SO and I have 20,000+ miles on our ebikes. If you are going to think about it like transportation it better be as reliable as a car. We ride Bosch and Yamaha drive systems btw.
Rufus-76@reddit
No name brands mean no service training for staff, no proof of quality components used when building the bike or more importantly the battery and charging system. No spare part list and availability information, no warranty on parts etc. There is a reason why physical shops sell brands they can rely on.
ColdCerveza@reddit
Bought a bike directly off of Alibaba at the start of Covid. With shipping and the highest spec’d battery and hub motor available, it was 50% less than the eBike shop prices down the street, for lower specs. Found a Changzhou based firm that would take single bike orders. Don’t think that’s avail anymore. I found that firms in that city build for everybody and firms around the country badge the bikes with their own logo. Not sure I’d recommend it now. Love the bike and price. But it took for ever. It sat on a ship in Longbeach harbor during the Covid backup. Factory was 12 hours ahead of US east coast. Had to communicate thru Alibaba’s chat feature… at 1 or 2 am. Plus the Alibaba rep isn’t the greatest. Not Temu level bad though. It finally worked out. Saved a bunch. Fast as hell. No repair work required. So, off topic. 😉
Sharp_Adeptness_3427@reddit
Honestly there really not hard to work on or mod spent most of my kid years working one bikes, one big kill point is ebike lack a standard code different brand not all parts match so sometimes what you think might a easy fix could turn in to needed a new controller or kit, my family has 8 ebikes all different brands I the one who works on all of them honestly I find it fun a lot less yelling then on cars lol
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
I just started learning to work on engines with an old scooter. I don't think I'm brave enough for cars beyond an oil change (after the way the last one went, that might even be pushing it).
quotientobject@reddit
I converted my old Trek hybrid with a front Bafang hub motor I got second hand. E-bikes in general are not that difficult. It’s a motor, a controller, and battery. Everything else is an accessory, but to your point the accessories and controller are not interchangeable. Add to that, the slicker the packaging of the battery, controller, wires, etc., in the bike body, then the harder to work on without making the body all scratched up.
quotientobject@reddit
I will add that you need some basic parts like torque arms that are probably not obvious when you go to do a conversion.
healthycord@reddit
Also the cheap bikes are just pieces of junk that really aren’t easy to maintain.
I bought a very nice Gazelle with belt drive, cvt gear box, Bosch electronics. I expect to do next to zero maintenance on it except for changing tires and brake pads over the next 10k miles. Which will likely be 10+ years for me. Drivetrain just doesn’t really require much on this belt drive which is why I got it.
My road bike has a typical chain and I wax it religiously. Waxing is the best thing for a chain to last a long time.
And these cheap ebike purchasers don’t have a clue you’re supposed to do anything for maintenance.
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
Pro tip, bearings likely require more frequent maintenance as well. Check everything that rotates on the bike for play or binding periodically, e.g. hubs, bottom bracket, headset. Adjusting bearings appropriately and greasing from time to time will keep them from going bad and needing to be replaced. Will save you a more expensive repair like a hub/wheel replacement down the line. At worst, a loose headset can render a frame unrideable.
ellipticorbit@reddit
The low-end dtc eBike customer is similar to the "entry-level" regular bike customer. Those bikes you see by the dozens lined up. Can they be fixed? Sure. But the economics of the industry are such that the majority of these bikes never get ridden very much, and then get abandoned due to the customer not even knowing how to (or being too lazy) to pump up the tires. The manufacturer knows the parts don't really have to work well or stay in tune well, because the bike is going to sit and rot. The same customer becomes apoplectic when told they would be better off with a better quality bike to start, and to stay on top of maintenance. People who think there's no difference between Shimano non-series and Deore.
SpawnicusRex@reddit
My local bike shop was super chill about it.
I went in to start a conversation about the bikes they sell and what services are available on their bikes. I explained that, for my first bike, I bought an inexpensive Chinese e moped on purpose so I wouldn't feel bad about inevitably wrecking it and/or messing it up through inexperience.
The sales floor rep was clear that they are always happy to service bicycle issues even on random customer e bikes. Things like tuning the derailleur, adjusting brakes, tires etc, they are happy to help with but the electronic aspects of any e bike is only touched if it's one of theirs and covered under their service plans. Things like controllers, motors, throttle assemblies etc, they aren't able to service those parts of the bike.
I appreciated that he led with "here's what I can absolutely do for you any time" and, because of that, I intend to take my business there any time they can help me. Might even get my next bike there, when I eventually upgrade from the cheap hot rod I bought first.
jabateeth@reddit
Electrical issues on a bike you are not familiar with I can understand but 90% of the issues are mechanical (new brakes, new chain, etc) that cost the same regardless of bike. Would you still not work on it?
CuTe_M0nitor@reddit
I do my own service on my EBike and can confirm everything OP says. Whenever i need to make a huge service on my EBike, it tends to take multiple days. Uneven have to reschedule and repair since there isn't more time to work on it, putting some fixup as will-fix-later. I wish it could be maintenance free but it isn't.
I think maybe in the future when we get more standards that are pushed by end customers then we can start to see some improvements. But what i already see is that EBikes are becoming more and more complex, automatic gears, electric suspension, no chains pedals that use regenerative pedals, which is cool, but that will add up on maintenance. They are even adding sensors for collision detection and electric stabilisers. How far can we push this type of machine?!
FuckedUpYearsAgo@reddit
Then the business will die
Ask customers to not bring in the battery and treat it like any other bike.
Outside of that, it's just skiers hating on snowboarders, analog cyclists hating on ebikes
It's the same tribal shit that powers the Internet and reddit
syntheticassault@reddit
For quality ebikes it's like any other bike. For cheap ebikes the components are not always standard so aren't available. Just like it was mentioned in the post.
FuckedUpYearsAgo@reddit
3) Ebike customers are the worst.
That's the whole point of OPs post.
bookshopdemon@reddit
OP hates all things ebike and is using the cheap vs quality point to make it not sound irrational.
IM_OK_AMA@reddit
Unless your definition of ebike is something other than "electric bicycle" this doesn't really make sense. The cheap ones are just bicycles with hub motors and batteries strapped to them, they use (cheap) standard parts, the expensive ones have more proprietary parts like custom frames with integrated batteries and mid-drive motors and stuff.
If you're including motorcycles and scooters and stuff then nobody expects bike shops to work on them.
IM_OK_AMA@reddit
The bike shop business is dying, they're closing all over the place. 5 out of 7 of the bike shops where I grew up are closed and the remaining ones have weird limited hours. One only takes bikes by appointment and quoted my dad $250 for a tune-up of his 90s trek (which just needed some adjustments and a new tube).
They refused to compete with big box stores or the internet on new bikes, and jacked up the prices for service to the point where it makes way more sense to look on youtube, buy the parts on Amazon, and do it all yourself. Then they come here and self-righteously explain why they're not accepting work... okay? Who cares?
FuckedUpYearsAgo@reddit
The OP made his actual point as the last bullet point:
3) Ebike customers are the worst.
IM_OK_AMA@reddit
Yeah and "these things are more expensive to maintain than a regular bike by a wide margin" is a lie. Most ebikes require the same maintenance and use the same wear parts as regular bikes, so the only way they can be more expensive to maintain is if he charged more to work on them lol
cosmicrae@reddit
Where I live, and ride, there is no LBS. Either you fix it yourself, or you take it 35-50 miles to a larger city with an LBS. I fix my own, and have learned tons doing so.
Scuttling-Claws@reddit
Did you not read the post? It has nothing to do with the battery
FuckedUpYearsAgo@reddit
I read it. It's complete bullshit. The comment about pulling the battery was in response to the deluge of "it's unsafe to work on ebikes."./
I completely disagree that Ebikes are harder to work on. I have velofix come out with their little van, they put together pelotons, ebikes and over 50% of their business is non-analog bikes.
The OP is just anti ebike.
"3) Ebike customers are the worst."
PassTheReefer@reddit
Cheap e-bikes are cheap because of cheap parts. Meaning, when something breaks, you’re better off just buying brand new cheap parts and replacing, not getting them fixed at the LBS. Also with YouTube and a little time, it’s very possible you could do it on your own.
This is a trend we’ve seen for decades now in multiple industries. Cheaper to replace than to fix. Sure, you can spend more for “quality”, but in the end, it’s just a bike. If it’s your transportation to/from work, then sure pay more for quality. But for most of you just cruising the neighborhood, why? Unless you have no budget, or want to ignore that a lot of the “quality” e-bikes still come from China.
Still, these “quality” ebikes are not immune to the SAME issues. It’s not rocket science, it’s a bike. And if you really can’t figure out the basic operating systems of an e-bike, do you really need to spend thousands?
danomite11@reddit
I bought a Biktrix ebike that uses a Bafang motor. I recently regreased my motor, it was really easy to go since they posted multiple YouTube videos on how to remove and grease the motor. If you're gonna buy a China ebike, then you're going to have to go to YouTube University.
danomite11@reddit
Here's the video if anyone needs it for their Bafang motor. They have other helpful videos of you don't have this particular Bafang motor. Check-out their channel.
https://youtu.be/3NknE1SoLfA?si=0AuqEpLo615uETI-
tomcatx2@reddit
I have a patch for that.
General-Permission-5@reddit
Bike shops can't fix shit. You get an e-bike, you learn to fix it yourself.
_haha_oh_wow_@reddit
I bought my main e-bike from a local shop. It's just a Ride1up Portola, but I have not had any problems with getting maintenance and the costs have been the same as a regular bike (maybe a little less actually, because the chains last longer with the hub motor).
mperham@reddit
I learned this lesson the hard way when all of my LBSes refused to work on my Super73. I eventually found an independent, mobile bike service that works out of a van and comes to my house.
AdBoring4472@reddit
Also, you missed this reason as well: - many of these cheap bikes are not certified and the maker doesn't exist in the US, so if they burn your shop down (more likely when damaged), your insurance likely won't cover the damage. Conversely, if they burn the customer's house down after you work on it, you may need to defend yourself in court and prove it wasn't your fault. In both cases, not at all worth the risk of working on them.
These crap ebikes are a scourge with so many hidden costs, it is just too bad so many people have to get screwed before the collective understanding of this catches up.
vartheo@reddit
Liability too. They would be quick to blame the shop as the start of all their problems
E_lluminate@reddit
Exactly this. I got a SWFT Fleet from FB marketplace. It was in great condition, only one mile on the odometer. After putting 100 miles on it, it crapped out. Display stopped working. Bought a new display. Bought a new harness. Bought a new battery. Bought a new battery base. Took it to two local bike shops. Nothing worked, and after putting another $300 into my $300 purchase, I left it for dead. Lesson learned: don't buy from somewhere that doesn't have local support.
I ended up going with a Trek FX+1s, and it's been great. Having a local shop that can provide support and a warranty pays for itself over time. Learn from my mistake- don't go off brand Amazon. Go with a local bike shop which will stand behind (and service) their product.
Blitqz21l@reddit
maybe it's the shop I went to, but it seems like either the mechanics, or more likely a store policy that they wouldn't work on an ebike they didn't sell. Even for petty mundane stuff.
Went into a shop with a rear flat, and mind you, I have a specialized vado sl, mid engine, so it's basically a simple tube change, and the shop said they don't/won't work on ebikes they don't sell.
Needless to say, I never went back.
MesugakiBratTamer@reddit
Sooner or later, traditional bike shops will slowly partly or fully transition into MicroEV shops. I had a long-standing bike shop that was in business for longer than I was born and when a MicroEV dealer/repair shop opened up around it, the LBS went out of business
mattyrain@reddit
This. Many shop owners realize this but they're just not quite ready for it.
MesugakiBratTamer@reddit
It's the hard truth
"Either adapt or become phased out"
Market wise, traditional bikes are dead; while ebike sales are on the rise
mattyrain@reddit
100%
Prestigious-Growth-5@reddit
like, scooters?
MesugakiBratTamer@reddit
MicroEV= ebikes, escooters, onewheels, EUCs, eskates, etc.
cosmicrae@reddit
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should
ssmith164@reddit
Liability!
VirtueSignalBLOCKED@reddit
I understand where you are coming from. It is in my opinion that people should not buy an ebike online unless they are willing to do the work themselves. I knew from the get, before having any experience working on anything, that buying something from Amazon was going to require me to do my own work and watch tons of youtube videos. People who don't know anything about maintenance should stick to locak bike shops since they will be coming back for maintenance/repairs anyway. But some, SOME, of the people who buy cheap ebikes expect to spend $600 for a bike worth $5K. It's ridiculous
tomcatx2@reddit
It doesn’t help that the buyer sees a “SALE”‘price of 799 down from 2099 and they think they are getting the deal of the century. Only to find out the 800 ebike is needing 1500 to make safe and reliable to the level of a 2k ebike.
Inciteful_Analysis@reddit
The first two points aren't applicable to changing tubes or tires if just the already removed wheel is brought in. Which was the scenario in a prior thread.
Sure-Taste-5778@reddit
I had to stock up on parts and tools to work on my e-bikes.
WelcomeAgitated8327@reddit
Ran into a new excuse, lbs owner said he wouldn’t even let my Velotric D3 into his shop for a flat - or work on the wheel - because he helped write Colorado’s no throttle over 20mph law, Velotric allows owners to unlock to 28, he wrote the company asking them to stop allowing unlocking here, they basically told him to pound sand as long as there was no enforcement they would do. So his fee-fees are hurt is why he won’t work on it. Cursed Velotric as if they were alone in the action that upsets him.
jennixred@reddit
disappointed that "BSO" didn't come up in this post.
InfluenceEfficient77@reddit
It depends on what service. REI was willing to true an ebike wheel. They won't take apart an ebike battery.
Less business for bike shops more business for local craigslist electricians
ne0rmatrix@reddit
If it takes multiple days or even multiple hours that sounds like you have no idea what you are doing. Sure you can solve regular bikes fine. No question of capability there. But if you can't figure out issues without a huge headache that is a competence problem and you can learn how to fix things. Blaming the source of item and the customer is just an excuse for not being qualified or capable.
Look at how people learned to fix most phones, that was a lot of people who will never have access to any legitimate supplier and have zero access to any manual and vendors are actively hostile to the point of suing them for doing repair work. So no I think you rather go out of business or watch a growing customer base pass you by because you are unable to do basic maintenance.
killdyl@reddit
So fix it yourself, bye
AltoidAvenger@reddit
you say this but it's still difficult to find a phone repair guy who will work on anything other than a Samsung or Apple phone.
BicyclesOnMain@reddit
Hey my QGHFKISDJ eBike randomly shuts off sometimes while I'm riding. I got it on Amazon for $500 (but it had 5 star reviews). Can you fix it?
By the way, even if you can diagnose it and find repair parts on AliExpress, I'm going to ghost you and leave you with a worthless bike when you call me with the repair bill.
I need it for DoorDash so when it wasn't fixed in 45 minutes I just put another one on my credit card.
IbnBattatta@reddit
Go ahead and do it. No one is stopping you. But if you want to just be an entitled crybaby, well, you're going to be disappointed.
420Aquarist@reddit
Number one reason is insurance.
serialband@reddit
If you buy a cheap e-bike, you should know how to do basic bike maintenance on your own. That's the only way they can work. I bought a cheap bike that's lasted me 4 years so far, but I had to change out the cheap tires that wore out much earlier and the cheap brake pads that wore out earlier. I have to constantly tune the hydraulic brakes. I also need to change out the rear derailer soon and get new bearings for the motor. Those are things I can do myself. Overall, it was still cheaper than a more expensive e-bike because I can fix it myself.
If you're not capable of fixing a regular bike, you're better served by buying a more expensive e-bike that's supported by the bike shop, so you can get it fixed, otherwise it'll cost you even more.
wlexxx2@reddit
cheap ones many times have no documentation or standard assembly or parts
the parts they have are frequently low quality, break easily, work poorly, and the company will not have spares available
Slayerlax@reddit
I spent way to much money on a mid drive e-bike that the company isn’t even around anymore . I mean I love it and have got 2 years out of it , but if I could go back I’d buy a trusted brand with customer service since I’m on my own now The brand was M2S bikes
Choosemyusername@reddit
I am not even a pro and there aren’t many issues that have taken multiple days for me to fix. And I don’t even have the right tool set.
UT07@reddit
I assume this perspective is for the direct to consumer crap sold online. Bike shops absolutely do service electric bicycles that they themselves sell
Ok-Many4195@reddit
They also service most regular looking ebikes that use kits. They're just regular bikes with a motor attached and you take the battery off.
Service on the actual ebike components, well you're gonna have to replace that stuff yourself or go to a specialty shop.
sailor_in_spirit@reddit (OP)
Yes, that is mentioned in the title and body text of the post.
badhabitfml@reddit
Yeah. There is so much dtc bikes now and hard to find parts. A shop doesn't want to spend hours searching for parts, waiting for delivery and hoping they work.
I was looking at a bike recently and a few people came into the shop looking for help. The bikes were trashed and rusty. One guy had a sketchy back story about how he got a scooter that he didn't know the brand of.
People don't want to spend the money it costs to keep the cheap bikes running.
JeremyFromKenosha@reddit
The mentality of the typical purchaser of a $500 Amazon eBike is going to make it unpleasant to do business with them too. They're not going to want to pay more than $100 for anything.
younginonion@reddit
I've taken mine to a motorcycle shop to get worked on and the technician did excellent bleeding/replacing my hydraulic brake lines. two bike shops had previously said no, one even wasted my time and cut cables for no reason just so say they can't fix it and wouldn't solder the cables back.
the motorcycle shop even ordered/sourced a new front rotor since mine was wearing out. I recommend him to everybody I know with an ebike
Gizmorum@reddit
The shop rate is 120 an hour? more than a certified car technician or car garage mechanic? yeah thats redicuolous
BicyclesOnMain@reddit
My shop in NorCal charges $125 an hour. Nobody at the shop, including the owner, makes more than $20-25 an hour, the rest goes to overhead (and time wasters)
The car mechanic shop across the street from me charges $225 an hour, the cheapest I see anywhere is $185.
It's not expensive, it's because our dollar is rapidly losing it's value. When I did construction I personally made $45-65 an hour, and lunch cost me $7-10. Fifteen years later, same lunch is $20, and I struggle to clear $20 an hour as the owner. Last year I made about $5 an hour. Because that labor rate doesn't cover the time people waste chatting, dropping off and picking up, sweeping the floor, answering the phone and emails, ordering product... oh and our landlord wants to be paid, along with our point of sale software and electricity bill.
Relative-Display-676@reddit
car dealerships charge $220+ labor rates since 10 years ago. it's probably more now. i've known bike shops that charged $100+ an hour for a LONG time. that's nothing new.
you need to consider that regular bikes often cost $1-10 thousands!
Ohm_Slaw_@reddit
You said it.
I do my own conversions, mid-drives. My local bike guy is ok with handling the mechanical stuff and I do all my own work on the electronics. It works out well, but I'm handy that way and it's a hobby for me.
If I were to do the work for someone else, I wouldn't make a dime out of it.
Another problem with the no-name imports is that they are owned by people who are either poor or cheap. One thing I learned about business a long time ago is to work for people who have the money to pay you and are willing to spend it.
You've also got the emotional cost. Telling some poor kid who mowed lawns all summer to buy his scrabble-brand ebike that it will cost twice as much as he paid to fix it is heartbreaking.
nevereverareddituser@reddit
But you do work on an e-bike from a reputable brand like Specialized, Cannondale, Gazelle etc that e.g. uses the same Shimano components that non-electric bike use?
Neenknits@reddit
When I added a motor to my recumbent trike, I did it knowing all maintenance was now going to be done by me, or one of my kids. Annoying but a fact.
IndianaSucksAzz@reddit
It took about two minutes of talking to the guy at my LBS to realize he wasn’t going to help me. So just learned on my own and buy the shit I need online.
Hot_Block_9675@reddit
My local Specialized shop will work on my Yamaha Moro 07 mountain ebike - no problem. Luckily, since it's a Yamaha it doesn't break like 90% of the junk floating around out there. I asked them to do a once over safety check after I assembled it from a box. They found a few minor issues and tweaked it for me. $20.00. .. and yes, it's highly modified. By me.
I also own a Specialized/Globe Haul ST. Rock solid dependable at 3 years approaching 10K miles. It's only been in the shop for Specialized mandated updates/upgrades.
Ok-Carpenter-8455@reddit
Luckily the shops here in Phx will fix/touch almost anything even custom builds.
kennyloftor@reddit
local shop just charged me a 50$ e-bike fee plus the 30$ repair charge to rethread my crank to fit pedal
Sheshirdzhija@reddit
Where do you live? Central Park? What can possibly add up to 120?
I am not saying it's not realistic. Juct curious.
BadluckyKamy@reddit
Exactly why I took a Kona remote E-Mtb hardtail and not the full suspension version, the electronic part already add a lot of expensive maintenance and I don't neet to add pivots and rear suspension maintenance to that 🥲
Maleficent-Map6465@reddit
I've also been told random batteries create an insurance risk they just don't want the headache of if they don't need to
Salty-Entrepreneur11@reddit
because most are shit
that is why
Prestigious-Royal-82@reddit
Because of the Unknown and They Smart!!, e- Fam!!!😁😁
BWWFC@reddit
open your own independent shop and advertise you will... you'll get to that answer real quick i believe.
hard no... but now you are dealing with a customer that had that low bar for the base point to use and enjoy. ya really think all the parts are easy to source and the client easy to deal with... will you warranty your parts/work? not really a question becasue either way you'll be arguing with many of them anyway about it. lol
really, want to see you succeed, open a shop! oh, and then there's lawyers that will be calling bullshit reasons or not!
JolyonWagg99@reddit
This was a big reason I bought a Trek. A number of LBSs will work on it without issue.
Half-Full-8556@reddit
Imagine buying a cheap car from Amazon or Ali (even if that was possible) would you expect any repair shop to work on that car?
Would you be shocked if the parts weren’t available and there wasn’t any type of manual or tools to help to diagnose problems?
Bike shops are a business and not there to fix your piece of junk ebike at a huge loss.
Spend the money up front for a reliable known entity with support or take your chances that you might just have to throw your disposable ebike in the trash.
NxPat@reddit
Analog or acoustic bikes are pretty simplistic to diagnose even with electronic shifting and guarantee it’s safe to use. Legally, bike shops must confirm that a bike that has been repaired / serviced by them is safe to operate, this cannot be guaranteed by dropping off a bike without the battery and leaving it up to the consumer to pop the battery in and go. Consumer has an issue with the electronics after service that causes an accident and the shop is liable. The juice is not worth the squeeze.
PassTheReefer@reddit
Cheap e-bikes are cheap because of cheap parts. Meaning, when something breaks, you’re better off just buying brand new cheap parts and replacing, not getting them fixed at the LBS. Also with YouTube and a little time, it’s very possible you could do it on your own.
This is a trend we’ve seen for decades now in multiple industries. Cheaper to replace than to fix. Sure, you can spend more for “quality”, but in the end, it’s just a bike. If it’s your transportation to/from work, then sure pay more for quality. But for most of you just cruising the neighborhood, why? Unless you have no budget, or want to ignore that a lot of the “quality” e-bikes still come from China.
Still, these “quality” ebikes are not immune to the SAME issues. It’s not rocket science, it’s a bike. And if you really can’t figure out the basic operating systems of an e-bike, do you really need to spend thousands?
LowSkyOrbit@reddit
If you're a shop owner take the work or don't. Be upfront with prices and costs. Few people were bringing a Walmart Huffy to you, they likely won't be bringing their Amazon/AliExpress e-bike either.
netcat_999@reddit
Also bought an eBike from a local dealer. I want them to be able to handle any electrical/special parts issues that come up.
squishyliquid@reddit
Gosh I’m lucky! No mechanical issues on 2 cheap bikes in 2 years and 2 local shops that have serviced the bikes for the usual mechanical stuff.
250rninja@reddit
As
manwithafrotto@reddit
It’s mainly liability and insurance issues. And that didn’t even make your list lol
BodSmith54321@reddit
Some insurance companies are also saying they won’t insure their shop if they work on random e-bikes due to battery fires. Insurance companies aren’t savvy enough or too risk averse to allow work on a bike without the battery.
inund8@reddit
I can confirm this. We did flat repairs and even stopped doing that at some point.
derping1234@reddit
So all the same reasons why shops wont work on BSOs, combined with the added complexity of all the electronics?