Is this nuts? Night vision goggles for sailing?

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Sorry if this is a dumb question but do you have radar? I only ask because NODs can have a super narrow field of view, and if you don't buy a more expensive set with a better refresh rate you are going to be giving your dinner to the fishes.

Totally feel your pain BTW. I've also almost been cut in half by a speed boat in sound. Stay safe out there man.

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overthehillhat@reddit

I/We did many nites way back--

70's-80's-90's-00's---

Then -- I quit nites

^(Sigh of relief . .)

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Bwomprocker@reddit

I was coming into Atlantic city jersey from New Hampshire one time. It was probably midnightish. I spent a good hour staring at a light, couldn't tell if it was right in front of me or not. I was so sleep deprived that I was almost panicked saying "WHAT THE F IS THAT? AM I ABOUT TO RUN AGROUND?". It was a fucken billboard for the golden nugget miles out 😂. Yeah, I'll do nights, but only if I need to.

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overthehillhat@reddit

''Prudent Mariners do not make landfall at night '':::

IE;

Maritime Landfall (Navigation)
Definition: The action of reaching land after a journey by sea.
Prudent Approaches:
Preparation: Confirming navigation systems, defining the, and identifying key navigational aids (lights, buoys) before darkness falls.
Reduced Speed: Slowing down to allow more time to react to unexpected hazards, such as unlit vessels, floating debris, or inaccurate buoy placements.
"Peeking": Taking care to identify land features (like lighthouses or coastal lights) rather than rushing in, as dark conditions can distort distance perception.

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Bwomprocker@reddit

Cool, having did all that, none of that stuff accounts for unforseen circumstances. Hence, we pulled into Atlantic City at midnight instead of staying in blue water until North Carolina which I didn't specify in the original post.

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MissingGravitas@reddit

My first thought as well; I'd spend the money on radar first.

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Bwomprocker@reddit

In new England it's borderline a need rather than a luxury. Even if it's not night, when the fog happens it HAPPENS.

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Plastic_Table_8232@reddit

Not night vision, you want thermal imaging on the water. Flir makes a spotting scope that many folks use.

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brufleth@reddit

Flir

Looking at the price of these things and that feels a little bonkers. Does OP already have AIS? Not that the drunk powerboater is going to be looking, but that seems more useful for the price in general. Then I guess maybe get a good spotlight and use it to light up your sail?

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Plastic_Table_8232@reddit

If you have to enter a foreign port at night it can be priceless. Also might save someone’s life locating and MOB.

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Plastic_Table_8232@reddit

It’s $400 and Invaluable if your have to enter a foreign port at night. It’s superior to light vision on the water IMHO.

link

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J4pes@reddit

You get get mono lens versions that works very well and aren’t too crazy expensive

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Hootn_and_a_hollern@reddit

It isn't nuts, but it completely violates ITAR laws if you leave the US or enter into another country with them.

It's as serious, if not more so, than importing/exporting a firearm illegally.

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FairSeafarer@reddit

I'll be here, eating my carrots.

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rhadenosbelisarius@reddit

Yea, I think a lot of people don’t know how serious this one is. If you have to make an unintended landing somewhere and you have IR gear aboard you may need to destroy it before it can be seized by the local authorities.

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Rogueshoten@reddit

Yeah…if I had a dollar for every time I accidentally sailed to another country without planning on it…

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Hootn_and_a_hollern@reddit

Accidental or not is irrelevant if OP doesn't even know what ITAR is.

Did you know what ITAR was before my post? Be honest.

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Rogueshoten@reddit

I did. As someone who’s traveled extensively while working for a public sector services company, they took ITAR very seriously. Their concern was that even a token violation could imperil their ability to bid on contracts. So there was a whole capability for ITAR compliance (two dedicated employees) who met with me every time I was going to travel to another country.

The point I made, however, is that almost no sailors in the US are at risk of an unplanned or unexpected stop at a foreign country. Whether or not ITAR is new to me is entirely irrelevant. I started sailing as a child and over decades I’ve never sailed within a hundred miles of another country (until I moved to Japan). If I’m missing something, feel free to let me know.

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Hootn_and_a_hollern@reddit

My point here is that you aren't the target audience of this conversation.

OP has like never heard of ITAR.

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Rogueshoten@reddit

I’m sorry…I thought Reddit ran on comments. My bad, my prior belief was that DMs were for private conversations that others weren’t welcome to participate in.

To think I’ve been using it wrong, all these years…

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rhadenosbelisarius@reddit

Depends on where you are, but it isn’t really all that uncommon to end up in another country relatively unplanned, and it’s something to think about if there’s any reasonable chance it could happen to you.

Sailing around a place like the Med you might have a route that passes alongside several countries. You might have a medical emergency aboard, discover damage to critical systems that requires immediate attention, or even just need to shelter in harbor from a storm that defied forecasts.

Now if you’re just sailing along the coast of the US or something it’s pretty unlikely you’ll have an unintended trip abroad, but plenty of sailors end up further from home.

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Ivebeenfurthereven@reddit

Not all gear is covered by ITAR, /r/NightVision has links to EU groups

Granted US sailors might not enjoy having that argument on the dockside.

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Hootn_and_a_hollern@reddit

I own several NV monoculars and goggles, all of them are ITAR items.

There might be some maritime specific equipment that isn't, i just don't know about it.... I assumed OP was talking about getting a PVS-14 or something like that.

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Klaus_Kinsky@reddit

If you can find a cheap Russian version, you won’t be “exporting “ US technology and can get around ITAR.

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NoZooplanktonblame75@reddit

IANAL but my understanding is that some IR devices are allowed for export and some are not, and its far from intuitive which are restricted. There's older tech that is restricted from export from the US and newer tech that is fine (because of the way the laws were written). Leave it home or consult an export control lawyer.

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mckenzie_keith@reddit

There are two types of devices. Thermals and night vision. Not the same thing. For spotting vessels, thermals will probably work better.

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diekthx-@reddit

Sure people do this but I think radar plus a good spotlight would do the trick.

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atypicalcarl@reddit

I have a night vision camera on the bow feeding a monitor at the helm. If you can swing it, it makes you feel more confident.

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LegitMeatPuppet@reddit

FLIR systems are pretty popular in the PNW, but Seattle is also further north than the tip of Maine (a fact I didn’t appreciate when I live on the east coast). Usually the system cost is justified by avoiding hitting logs, especially in the winter when sunset is at 4pm. The big quirk about most high-end night vision goggles are they are expensive, often a bit fragile and not necessarily waterproof. Additionally, because night vision is a regulated military technology you are likely limited to sets with lower Hz ratings as a civilian. I’m not sure if the less portable Raymarine FLIR systems also have low Hz ratings and/or they use other computer algorithms to smooth out the data for a smoother video experience.

All that being said, many boat owners have enough disposable income that they can buy a 20-30k pair of military grade goggles and figure out a way to justify the expense. However, I’ve only seen that you can add the goggles to a shopping cart, I’ve personally never clicked ‘Buy’ to learn if I need to enter a Military ID.

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AmbitionOfPhilipJFry@reddit

Night vision goggles are notoriously bad for depth perception and a limited range of view. The next generation NVGs for public buying have four monoculars to create a 90 degree view, but are $50k plus.

See

https://www.atomicdefense.com/products/gpnvg

Get a good garmin.

Youll know where the markers are, and where you are. If it ain't marked, the light is a boat.

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youalreadyare@reddit

The obvious choice for the serious operator

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the__itis@reddit

I got a FLIR IR PTZ cam in the top of my mast.

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FrostyVariation9798@reddit

Considering how many boats coming out of central america and the caribbean have no lights at night, and nobody awake at the helm, night vision seems like it is needed these days.

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SoundByte@reddit

Nope, not nuts at all. You still need nav lights obviously but IR image intensification is 100% the right tool for identifying objects in the dark.

I would just caution you to use them judiciously - Tunnel vision (only being aware of a \~60 degree arc in front of you) and vertigo (with the boat pitching around) are potential hazards of staying in the nods too long.

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Raneynickelfire@reddit

IR image intensification

It's either IR, or ambient light amplification. It's not both.

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Retb14@reddit

Analog night vision makes near IR light visible to your eye while also amplifying ambient light so the wording does work

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Raneynickelfire@reddit

"near IR" meaning visible.

It amplifies visible light, OR it's IR.

These terms have definitions.

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Retb14@reddit

Near IR is a specific wavelength range that is outside of the visible spectrum (specifically 750 nm to 2,500 nm)

Visible light is from 380nm to 750nm

Analog night vision is able to amplify light and transition it to the visible spectrum. They are able to detect and amplify light from 400 nm to 950 nm (which covers both visible light and infrared)

Visible light and near infrared (NIR) are two different sections of the wavelength spectrum

Yes, terms do have definitions.

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SoundByte@reddit

To make things even more complicated, we have civilian and military standard 'IR' wavelengths for illuminators and lasers, civilian IR devices (\~850nm) being actually slightly visible to the naked eye (you will see a very faint red glow looking directly into an 850nm IR flashlight - not recommended). Military devices are higher wavelength (\~940nm) and totally invisible to the naked eye.

Then on top of this, night vision devices also intensify visible light frequencies as well - To the point that modern night vision has autogating/autogain features to prevent bright visible light sources from damaging the intensifier tubes.

It's a complicated hobby...

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curious-chineur@reddit

I think we all understood " spy googles" to see at night.
As far as i know, he may have radar also.

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SoundByte@reddit

Bluntly, you are incorrect.

The type of night vision he's referring to is infrared image intensification.

Look up 'image intensifier' on Wikipedia. Hope this helps.

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Mrshadowsys@reddit

yup , got Thermals for sailing on the patrol boat , FLIR , works great on fog, used PVS-14 a couple of times , i can say that radar is most useful , night vision for taking a closer look, image intensification works awesome on SAR.

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Random-Mutant@reddit

Broadband radar is the solution here. They have good range, including up close, good target separation, and modern Doppler tracking technology does a good job of telling you what you should worry about. Also, broadband radar doesn’t need much power at all.

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OutlyingPlasma@reddit

Not night vision but similar. I have a boat with a midrange thermal FLIR camera dome.

It's... ok... Sometimes it's amazing. I can spot people walking on the shore in the pitch black that I would never have see even with the best optics. It's frankly amazing at spotting humans, we stand out like little beacons, even on other boats.

It does ok-ish on open water showing other boats, buoys and even something like a deadhead bobbing. It kind of depends on conditions and what I'm looking at. Obviously a small bobbing deadhead is going to be a lot harder to see than a running outboard

On the other hand, it's not great with things like highlighting a shoreline. The ground and the water are mostly just black on the screen.

The other issue is screen size. If you are going to be navigating using this thing in the dark, a 16-20ish monitor one finds on a boat doesn't really cut it. It just can't render enough detail. Is that a wake or a log? Is that a duck or a buoy? You might not have this issue with night vision goggles but it is pretty apparent screen size and resolution is a bigger issue than one might think.

I guess my point is, overall it's not the perfect solution one might hope for but it can be an ok addition to the overall toolkit. Frankly I would rather have a good radar system. A modern radar with target lock and CPA data is a god damn miracle. Throw in AIS and boating at night seems so much safer.

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barefootviking@reddit

My Dr., LED Star phaser, pistol grip Spotlight with a red dot laser,… That thing will really get the attention of a speed boat and it’s super helpful when you’re picking your way through channel markers in the dark

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Wilhelm-Edrasill@reddit

If you have.....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$........ Buy a Lir Marine night vision camera , and mount it near the radar dome? pipe to a screen.

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SVAuspicious@reddit

I have some experience with military and consumer night vision goggles (NVG).

If you're squinting, my immediate reaction is poor light discipline. Are all lights out below? Displays dimmed way down? Displays you don't need covered? Nothing particularly special about your cruising grounds. Lots of shore lights which is a problem but not unique to your area.

NVG are great for missions like snipers. For search from a moving target, less so. Consumer grade NVG tend to degrade your night vision. In my experience it is much better to focus (ha!) on your best night vision.

If you want to spend money on something, get radar and training to use it effectively.

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Cole_Slawter@reddit

We plan to invest in a FLIR monocular. They are like $2-3k for now.

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hifromtheloo@reddit

We use our radar at night and in dense fog.

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SpirulinaNelCulo@reddit

30 years ago we used old soviet nvg binoculars for that.

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CatastrophicCapybara@reddit

Why NV over a much cheaper, more effective, and higher resolution Marine FLIR system?

Or even just Radar.

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OldChairmanMiao@reddit

Maybe? Never tried it on a boat.

When using night vision goggles on Humvees, we also use IR headlamps..

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Ivebeenfurthereven@reddit

iirc Gen1 and Gen2 systems needed infrared illumination, Gen3 and above are fine on ambient light alone. It's probably not a good idea at sea because you won't be able to light up anything further than 1km or so.

/r/NightVision is a great subreddit, OP should go there

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DiligentMeat9627@reddit

Radar?

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doned_mest_up@reddit

The weirder and happier we can be on our own damn boats, without bothering anybody, the better.

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IncredibleVelocity4@reddit

Put your pants back on now, Captain.

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mercury-ballistic@reddit

NODs will wreck your own night vision. You will have to wait several minutes for your eyes to adjust as they are quite bright.

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Guygan@reddit

This is why you get radar.

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negrusti@reddit

I'd go for a night vision camera compatible with the MFD instead. Pricey though.

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Retb14@reddit

You could probably build a thermal camera on a gimbal with a separate screen and joystick for controlling it for under 2k

Then just stick it on top of the mast and you should be able to see pretty far with it

I wouldn't recommend a night vision camera. Digital night vision doesn't have good range unless you have a really bright IR light. It could work during the day and just before sunrise and just after sunset pretty good though

(You can get 640x640 FPV thermal cameras for a couple hundred now)

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infield_fly_rule@reddit

You’ve just invented the FLIR system

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Retb14@reddit

Lot cheaper than a FLIR. I don't like using their products anyway, they are nice but overpriced

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T1D1964@reddit

Sounds like you should design, market, and sell your idea then

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yepdoingit@reddit

You can buy USB night-vision cameras for just a little over $30. View it on your phone or tablet.

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negrusti@reddit

Of course you tried them at 200 m distance, right?

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NumerousTooth3921@reddit

I have used NV binoculars in close proximity sailboat racing on block race and they work great but they do effect your regular night vision afterwards so be warned. If you want true picture quality a Thermal on a gimbal is the way to go as you have significantly larger field of view and it is stabilized so you don't have to sit on the deck and brace your elbows to watch the horizon. If you are under sail I have often also clipped a flashlight to the bow pulpit facing up the sail to light the tell tales, extra benefit is it lights up the sail as well, only downside to that is the red telltale kind of disappears with a red light.

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DarkVoid42@reddit

goggles will make you seasick. get a nightwave lltv.

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BamaTony64@reddit

Do people not use running lights there?

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overthehillhat@reddit

Everyone but---

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Shhheeeesshh@reddit

I have a friend who has a flir camera at the top of his mast. It’s very nice, albeit expensive and certainly overkill

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mrthomasfritz@reddit

I navigate with a flir phone at night. Left a tricky harbor in California with a bad reef at high tide at midnight!

So unless you are going to buy a very expensive night vision setup ( up to 60k ), a flir phone or flir camera is a cheap alternative, with the advantage of detecting overheating problems with wires and engine.

Side bonus, my flir rugged phone is water resistant, tested it by dropping into deep end of pool 6' deep. Although they say 5 feet is it.

This is not an ad for a brand of phone, only stating the advantage of having a flir phone on a boat.

Please note, no brand name has been mentioned.

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johnbro27@reddit

Isn't this the exact point of good 7x50 binoculars? That's certainly what I used mine for at night.

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infield_fly_rule@reddit

Get a FLIR monocle

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Lycent243@reddit

I tried a night vision adjacent tech that a friend of mine had. I'd have to go figure out exactly what it was. It was a cool bit of gear because you could see in sort of an enhanced color mode with low light -- stars alone weren't enough to make much of a difference, but with even a partial moon gave you a really good view of things.

But I hated it. In order to see things properly, the screen brightness had to be high enough that it killed my natural night vision completely. I've found the same with thermal rifle scopes. Maybe I just have sensitive eyes or something.

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Waterlifer@reddit

I have a pair of 7x50 Fujinon Polaris binocs that are amazing at night. Get some of those first unless you already have a serious pair of marine binocs intended for use in the dark. Compared to night vision, better resolution, more reliable, longer life, useful for a greater variety of things, cheaper.

I also have radar, it's great at night.

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barefootviking@reddit

If you can’t afford a good pair, then I highly recommend very high-quality marine binoculars like Steiner Commander pro or Fujinon… you would be surprised if the amount of light collection that high-quality optics are capable of.

Night vision? Absolutely which is why we love FLIR combined with low light cameras.

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Gl3g@reddit

I bought the Fujinon 7x50, binoculars in the middle 90s. You can look into a black area and see things you can’t even almost see with your naked eye. They were $600 at the time. One of my favorite purchases ever.

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barefootviking@reddit

I have Steiner. My bro and many yachts have Fujinon…the Fuji’s are heavier w makes them more stable on bumpy days. My Steiners are lighter; nice when I have to use them a ton.

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fuckin_atodaso@reddit

Cut the Sea Ray owner some slack, he's worn out from drinking Mich Ultras for 13 hours.

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justinchina@reddit

Bro is dehydrated, for sure!

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grives@reddit

It could be helpful as an option if you have the $ - As others mentioned I think a monocular would be better to keep some situational awareness. If you’ve ever looked at the stars in NVGs they are great, which would be a fun perk as well!

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Strenue@reddit

Get a night vision camera for your iPad or MFD.

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lowpro111@reddit

I have sailed from Boston to Fiji and never needed them in 3 years. A good headlamp with red or green does the trick for most things and a strong white beam for looking at your mast. I was amazed how easy it is to see at night with just a little moon out. It’s seems unnecessary and everything breaks on a sailboat in the saltwater, electrics especially

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joesquatchnow@reddit

I can see where this will help, also I have ran over stone crab pots at night so great idea

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m00f@reddit

I think you would be better off with a monocular than goggles.

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euph_22@reddit

Get a good pair of binoculars, 7x50. You want wide objective lens to collect light and a relatively low magnification so the image isn't bouncing around trying to find your target.

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Retb14@reddit

A decent night vision monocular is pretty good for this. Sucks with depth perception but it's not too bad to learn how to compensate for that

It doesn't ruin all of your natural night vision and the range on a gen 3 is enough that you'll be able to see as far as you could with the naked eye during the day (depends a lot on the tube you get but most gen 3 will be fine)

The binoculars are pretty nice too but night vision is a different world

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