I asked for the service charge to be removed. Why has it been so normalised to automatically add a service charge?
Posted by ProfessionTrue8117@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 385 comments
Recently me and my friend went to a restaurant.
There was a service charge that was added onto the bill 15%. I asked them to remove it and the waitress told me it’s not possible.
Since when has London turned into a place where we have to mandatory tip staff? I didn’t want to continue questioning but I surely did not return to this restaurant ever again.
I thought that goes against consumer’s rights. I am sorry but the service wasn’t that amazing that I want to tip you off my hard earned money…
Has anyone had a similar experience? What happened do you want to add a tip?
L-0-T-H-0-S@reddit
The waitress lied to you, it's entirely discretionary. You don't have to pay the service charge.
ProfessionTrue8117@reddit (OP)
I know I figured this out after I went home and researched it. Next time it happens I will surely speak up. So so sneaky of them to lie..
notanadultyadult@reddit
I would phone and complain tbh. It’s bad enough them adding it but for them to deny the removal is a cheek.
James_IFA1980@reddit
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/768115/sponsors/new?token=FQEFKb2CqzRn9vTrMkYf
I've created a petition to try and stop restaurants and bars imposing it themselves. It makes a very pleasant meal, very uncomfortable, and you leave feeling like a criminal. It's so unfair, I don't want to part with £30 as a tip to someone who is protected by strong UK/EU laws (America is different). I tip my barber a "few quid" for half an hour of one on one, working just for me, talking to me etc ... why would I give a waiter £30 for the occasional top up of wine, taking my order when he's paid by the restaurant. If service is exceptional, I'd like to choose to give something as a thankyou. But that's my choice.
notanadultyadult@reddit
Just signed.
TaliaButton@reddit
More like adding it is a cheek, lying about it is a scam.
Dramatic-Coffee9172@reddit
I would recommend a formal complaint in writing instead of phoning.
sjw_7@reddit
Complaining to them directly is a good start but if you get ignored which is what will probably happen then leave some reviews stating that you were told it wasn't possible to remove the charge.
Unless it was clearly stated before you ordered the meal that there was a mandatory service charge then its illegal to make you pay it.
dwair@reddit
Negative reviews are the only weapon we have against the whole 'service charge' culture.
CapableSong6874@reddit
This is a good point because it hits the owners not the employees. Pay your staff properly and it will all work smoother.
banisheduser@reddit
We do pay our staff okay in the UK.
In this particular sector, pay is on the increase.
Yes, it's not the best paying job out there but the "service charge" is just an Americanism that most people will pay because they cannot be bothered or too embarrassed to ask for it to be removed.
James_IFA1980@reddit
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/768115/sponsors/new?token=FQEFKb2CqzRn9vTrMkYf
I've created a petition to try and stop restaurants and bars imposing it themselves. It makes a very pleasant meal, very uncomfortable, and you leave feeling like a criminal. It's so unfair, I don't want to part with £30 as a tip to someone who is protected by strong UK/EU laws (America is different). I tip my barber a "few quid" for half an hour of one on one, working just for me, talking to me etc ... why would I give a waiter £30 for the occasional top up of wine, taking my order when he's paid by the restaurant. If service is exceptional, I'd like to choose to give something as a thankyou. But that's my choice.
New_Antelope6160@reddit
I believe that this is already included in the meal price.
That's why it doesn't cost £5 like meal deal in Tesco or McDonald's. You pay for food being prepared and served to your table. Why would you add 'service charge' on top of that? Why would you add anything that I haven't order into the bill?
It's the same like going for an oil change in garage and on top of that they add 'driving vehicle to the bay charge'. Ridiculous and pathetic excuse.
dwair@reddit
"Great meal but the evening was spoiled by the automatic inclusion of a 15% service charge when I came to pay which was embarrassing to decline"
Trip Adviser and Google Reviews are honestly a great way to warn people about automated tipping / additional charges and is a great way to speak up about this growing trend. It only takes a minute of your time too.
SatsumaHermen@reddit
Nah just say the waitress and give her name if you have it or a description, said it was mandatory and that it couldn't be taken off. That's the important part. Any management worth their salt would take her to task about it. We certainly would.
dwair@reddit
It was more a general comment on service charges / tips starting to appear on POS machines rather than OP's specific incident.
You are right though, they should have made a further effort and complained higher up the chain as there is an issue of legality around this. Still even more cause to name and shame though.
James_IFA1980@reddit
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/768115/sponsors/new?token=FQEFKb2CqzRn9vTrMkYf
I've created a petition to try and stop restaurants and bars imposing it themselves. It makes a very pleasant meal, very uncomfortable, and you leave feeling like a criminal. It's so unfair, I don't want to part with £30 as a tip to someone who is protected by strong UK/EU laws (America is different). I tip my barber a "few quid" for half an hour of one on one, working just for me, talking to me etc ... why would I give a waiter £30 for the occasional top up of wine, taking my order when he's paid by the restaurant. If service is exceptional, I'd like to choose to give something as a thankyou. But that's my choice.
batteryforlife@reddit
Dont blame the waitress, shes probably told to say that by management. Write the review aimed at the restaurant as a whole.
theawesomepurple@reddit
Yes this is the way. People trust trip advisor and it spells out the issue so people can avoid or go in prepared. It’s the slyness of it that gets me. I prefer to tip good service in cash directly to the waitress, they get to see this whereas a general tip they don’t.
Working_thru_stuff@reddit
What do you mean by service charge culture?
dwair@reddit
As it says really, the culture of service charges.
The practice of adding tips and service charges to restaurant, pub and cafe bills is a very reacent imported practice from the US where culturally tips are given because serving staff are very low paid. In the UK our staff are paid a legal minimum wage so the practice of tipping outside exceptional circumstances is not considered normal or necessary.
Working_thru_stuff@reddit
That's not really what it is. It's a government backed anomaly that only affects restaurants. When you see words that say that the service charge isn't compulsory, words like discretionary or optional, there will be no VAT applied. So in the case of the OP's bill, 15% of the restaurant's revenue is not subject to 20% tax. So the question it always poses is 'does it go to the staff? Well yes and no. It's revenue and the staff get paid but it not necessarily a direct payment. I have been in the restaurant business for all of my working life and I'm quite old now and I can tell you, most restaurant owners hate it. But realistically it's impossible to stop unless the government (HMRC really...) stops it because prices would increase to cover the extra VAT. I will add one more point though, the VAT exemption only applies if it is clearly not compulsory. So if you ask to have it removed the restaurant must comply or be subject to VAT. So it isn't an Americanism, it's completely our invention.
dwair@reddit
The culture of applying a service charge / tip to the bill only really started 15-20 years ago (dispight VAT applying since 1973) though with the spead of electrictoic POS devices. The VAT issue was always included in the price of the plate before that. The price you saw was the price you paid, and tips were discretionary.
I don't remember ever seeing a service charge on a bill before the millennium, nor was I ever asked for a tip. That's the cultural change. That's what's pissing people off.
Because it's voluntary, it's seen as an emotional black mail to ask for it to be removed when you pay. No one likes to go out for dinner and then have a confrontation about the bill.
I honestly believe this is a US import because I can't think of any other country with a similar tip / charge culture where we would have got this from.
banisheduser@reddit
And tell us all the restaurant name so we can all leave a neg.
chin_waghing@reddit
You can issue a charge back on your credit card for this btw
I’ve done it before
SatchSaysPlay@reddit
This is the way and the OP should definitely do it, cheeky rascals have effectively stolen from you.
James_IFA1980@reddit
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/768115/sponsors/new?token=FQEFKb2CqzRn9vTrMkYf
I've created a petition to try and stop restaurants and bars imposing it themselves. It makes a very pleasant meal, very uncomfortable, and you leave feeling like a criminal. It's so unfair, I don't want to part with £30 as a tip to someone who is protected by strong UK/EU laws (America is different). I tip my barber a "few quid" for half an hour of one on one, working just for me, talking to me etc ... why would I give a waiter £30 for the occasional top up of wine, taking my order when he's paid by the restaurant. If service is exceptional, I'd like to choose to give something as a thankyou. But that's my choice.
banisheduser@reddit
Although a lot of the time, it's just tha bank that pays.
They won't actually do the chargeback.
oxfordfox20@reddit
Banks famous for just paying out money…
Having been on the receiving end of a chargeback (fraudulent use of a card, not something we did) I can promise you the charge was passed on, with a hefty fee from the bank for the privilege…
InfiniteMacaroon@reddit
This is what they do. It's why just threatening a chargeback often gets results without going to the bank at all. If you're in the right of course...
TomfromLondon@reddit
Am I remembering wrong, don't you have to try and contact them first and ask for the refund? Could be a simple email but I thought you had to show you'd attempted to solve it directly first
chin_waghing@reddit
Nah, that’s up to the bank if they want you to try first, but I’ve never had an issue.
Cards on the table this is with Amex who have notoriously good customer service
FitSolution2882@reddit
How does this work? Is the argument that what the waitress told them was false?
MrReadilyUnready@reddit
Yes. "I went to a restaurant and asked to remove the service charge. The waitress lied and refused to remove it. I'd like to chargeback that portion of the bill."
Scary_Twist_8072@reddit
You can do a chargeback on any type of VISA or Mastercard card, it's not credit card specific. Are you confusing it with section 75?
LuckInternational336@reddit
My credit card will only charge back over a certain amount, like £130 or something.
bornfromanegg@reddit
If it’s declared beforehand, you do have to pay. So if it says on the menu that it’s added, it’s on you to say no before you order. In which case they probably just won’t serve you.
MembershipDelicious4@reddit
You can ring up and demand a refund on the service charge. Done it before
TheSecretIsMarmite@reddit
Leave a Google review saying this happened. That way other customers will be forewarned.
DandaIf@reddit
Better yet, name & Shame them here, and let Reddit bury them 😊
TablePanic@reddit
shared 300 miles away hun robbing bastards xx
Evangelionish@reddit
Where was it? Name and shame them.
Aggravating_Chair780@reddit
You could also contact trading standards as I reckon it’s them who ‘police’ this sort of thing.
Dramatic-Coffee9172@reddit
make a formal complaint and also post a review (Google) regarding this shady practice. We do not want the UK to become the US way of tipping.
Narrow_Turnip_7129@reddit
Don't forget even the police can lie to you.
Why trust a restaurant?
PigHillJimster@reddit
I wouldn't necessarily assume any waiter/waitress is intentionally lying but could have been incorrectly told by their manager that it's not possible to be removed.
What's the betting in some of these cases that the service charge isn't being passed on fully to the staff either.
oh-my-dog@reddit
Why aren't you telling us where the restaurant was? Please do.
Forsaken-Yogurt-@reddit
Definitely leave bad reviews in a couple of places for this.
Completely unacceptable behaviour.
Fearless-Blood-1505@reddit
Ugh, sneaky lies like that are the worst 😤 Good call on speaking up next time, you’ve got to set those boundaries.
Fitzwilf@reddit
Check the menu first, if it says that a mandatory service charge will be applied then they aren't lieing and it is legal.
IllMaintenance145142@reddit
Drop a review and mention this please, it's the only way to warn others of this bullshit.
JustJavi@reddit
Make sure you leave a review
GracieHeart9@reddit
Not necessarily true. You can charge a compulsory service charge in the UK as long as it’s clearly stated on the menus so guests know before ordering.
The_Cremaster_Reflex@reddit
She may not have lied. It's completely feasible that she was unaware it could be removed.
Working_thru_stuff@reddit
That's not quite true, but you're close... A service charge is discretionary or optional if it says so on the bill. In which case it isn't subject to VAT. If it isn't said to be discretionary or optional then it isn't but the restaurant has missed a trick because the tax man will be calling.
Mediocre-External-89@reddit
That last sentence should be the answer to this entire thing!
That is really where they get you, or where they get themselves confused by not knowing the difference...
Manatsuu@reddit
I think I’ve seen some places where they say the service charge is mandatory for large groups, but I might be wrong. How legal it is I have no idea though.
I don’t really get the logic of why you should have to pay more when you’re a bigger group though. Surely you should pay less, if anything?
audigex@reddit
Or the waitress didn't know and was told by someone else it's mandatory
I'm not sure why we'd assume that a waitress would be au fait with the legal situation regarding service charges, unless she'd previously mentioned her law degree
LoneBladeS@reddit
You can add a mandatory service charge - most just don't because it becomes VAT standard rated as it is the just part of the price. This is the reason most are discretionary - they attract no VAT this way. Up until recently they were also able to retain part of service charge for the company use but the new rules mean this goes to the staff in it's entirety, although managed can still take a cut based on their tipping policy.
DeifniteProfessional@reddit
It should be noted that mandatory service charge is required to be communicated up front. I believe a notice on a menu is acceptable, but don't hold me to that
the-illogical-logic@reddit
Personally I think it should be compulsory for it to be clearly displayed on the entrance or by the door on the window etc and if they have any kind of webpage then clearly there as well.
This also includes any service charges which are not mandatory and automatically added.
It should be opt in.
Teembeau@reddit
It has to be clearly stated. Not buried in small print at the bottom. The law takes a very dim view of sneaking charges in. Just add 15% onto the price. If a burger is £10, make it £11.50.
WheresWalldough@reddit
not only standard-rated for VAT, but also subject to PAYE tax.
They lose out so much that it makes no sense to do it.
LoneBladeS@reddit
Absolutely, no reason to ever do it in my opinion - all tips and service charges at point of distribution are subject to PAYE or SA tax however, although using a Tronc can help to reduce NI liability.
glasgowgeg@reddit
No necessarily.
Mandatory service charges are legal, but they have to be up front and advertised as mandatory.
The government has guidance on them here.
If not advertised in advance, or listed as discretionary, it can be removed. If a menu says "Service charge of 10% applies to tables of x or more", that would be mandatory and cannot be removed.
vikingraider47@reddit
I've been reading a few of these 'end tipping' threads. Sometimes it's said x will be added to large party orders. Then it turns out a large party is 2. Then what?
glasgowgeg@reddit
It's entirely up to the restaurant themselves where it kicks in and if it's discretionary or not.
I've never seen a mandatory one on tables of less than 6 though.
PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit
Mandatory service charges are permitted.
The restaurant has to make it clear before ordering though.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/e24-tips-gratuities-service-charges-and-troncs/guidance-on-tips-gratuities-service-charges-and-troncs#definitions
glasgowgeg@reddit
What's wrong with this subreddit, you're being massively downvoted for accurately stating that mandatory service charges are legal.
Nothing you've said is incorrect, as long as a mandatory service charge is advertised as such, it's legal.
Unusual-Art2288@reddit
No where does it say service charges in a resturant can be mandantory. That a HRMC document about tax.
glasgowgeg@reddit
If mandatory service charges are not permitted, why is there an entire section of that page discussing mandatory service charges?
Mandatory service charges are legal, they just have to be communicated up front.
tgy74@reddit
Why do you think a restaurant couldn't make part of the clearly stated price mandatory? It's like saying a shop that advertises a pint of milk for 50p can't insist you pay 50p at the checkout because you didn't like the store's lighting, so you're only going to pay 45p
Silly-Industry1527@reddit
Don't fuck with His Revenue's Majesties and Customs.
Helenarth@reddit
His Rajesty's Mevenue and Customs
Bunister@reddit
Why did I read that in Scooby Doo's voice?
maybenotsure111101@reddit
Yeh it's true it's about tax but that particular part of the document is literally just laying out definitions. I'm curious why you think it's not relevant, unless restaurants are different?
PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit
heroics-delta8s@reddit
Not sure why you are getting downvoted, you are just stating the tax rules.
PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit
Yeah I'm quite baffled as well to be honest.
I provided a link and even anchored it to the section about services charges which clearly mentions they can be mandatory.
Probably just a hivemind thing. I won't lose sleep over it.
arpw@reddit
You're being downvoted because people don't like the facts you brought to the discussion, not because you're incorrect.
heroics-delta8s@reddit
Reddit is a very odd place.
heroics-delta8s@reddit
All the wealth I own and future wealth I will acquire, I am willing to bet they are not declaring that as a mandatory service charge to HMRC and the associated employer national insurance contributions that come with it.
PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit
Be that as it may, I was responding to a comment saying a restaurant can't have a mandatory service charge. They can, and the government has even decided how mandatory service charges should be taxed.
Odds of the restaurant actually having it mandatory and suitable advertised as such are slim, but they could if they wanted to.
SarkyMs@reddit
It is possible she couldn't remove it, and hadn't been told a manager could.
Fitzwilf@reddit
Not if they say on the menu that a mandatory service charge will be applied.
One_Pear_6993@reddit
I hate this practice and it’s designed to deliberately create an awkward situation so people feel embarrassed to have it removed, why must the UK copy the US in absolutely everything!
Routine_Owl811@reddit
It should be illegal to put it on your bill without your permission first. Opt in not opt out.
Josh-P@reddit
Sure, but be aware that encouraging people to start removing service charge will be taking money away from a lot of people that are struggling. Obviously it shouldn't be this way, but it is.
Emotional-Start7994@reddit
They're paid minimum wage, so no it isn't.
alacklustrehindu@reddit
That's why I love travelling in Paris or other big European cities. They won't do this.
Emotional-Start7994@reddit
They will in Prague. Even at the airport they tried sticking a service charge on top, which I asked to be removed. They became awkward afterwards.
PipalaShone@reddit
I worked for a restaurant group that adds a 10% service charge - but at our site we train our staff to point out that it has been added and we can adjust it or remove it, without any issue.
The normalisation comes about because it is a very hard job and it is hard to attract people to the job if they would only earn minimum wage, without any extra.
The argument that businesses should pay more to employees falls down - because then they would have to charge more for the food and drink to pay more to the employees and that is NOT up to the guest.
emdave@reddit
That is literally how a free market is supposed to operate - the business has to charge a price that customers will pay, that will cover their costs - including staffing... Charging an extra separate fee to top up staff wages is just a ruse to keep headline prices down, to scam customers into paying more than they are being advertised.
PipalaShone@reddit
Cool. Fish and Chips is now £22. Oh no, sorry it isn't because we've closed, along with all of the other hospitality businesses in town because everyone is at home cooking for themselves, restaurants are simply too expensive due to the massive operating costs including compensating staff appropriately for a demanding job with unsociable hours.
emdave@reddit
Good!
If businesses can't pay their staff properly, without scamming / ripping off customers with bs add-on fees, then they shouldn't be in business!
jizzyjugsjohnson@reddit
Waiting tables is not a hard job lol. Come on
PipalaShone@reddit
It doesn't require qualifications, but it is physical work that requires huge organisational skills, precision -and the ability to deal with people like you while convincingly appearing like we are delighted to be interacting with demanding arseholes. We work long unsociable hours - working public holidays and missing out on weekends and evenings.
Join me for a shift at 3pm on a Sunday and tell me after 4 hours that you'd happily do that for a pittance.
Actually, please don't. You aren't up to it.
whatsupwithbread@reddit
Have you ever waited tables? You literally have no idea how hard a job it is.
peerlesskid@reddit
Then let that business fail.
SteakSandwichSideEye@reddit
Tips are supposed to reward good service. If the tip is automatically added to the bill, where is the incentive for the staff to provide good service?
DoctorWhofan789eywim@reddit
I've never understood that. Why are we rewarding good service when that is the bare minimum of the job?
LoyalBoiLDN@reddit
I don’t mind paying service charge if the service is genuinely good. Walking over once to say “is everything ok” doesn’t really cut it. I actually asked for a service charge to be removed recently and the waitress gave me an entitled look and said “but that’s for me”, after getting my order wrong. She then went to speak to the manager and they discounted the food by the same amount and left the service charge on.
glasgowgeg@reddit
I expect good service as standard, I don't know why you'd pay extra for that.
DoctorWhofan789eywim@reddit
I agree. Is good service that rare that we're meant to reward people for literally doing the bare minimum of the job description to provide good service?
Ironside3281@reddit
So the restaurant basically used a work around to still reward one of their own staff members, even though they provided a level of service the customer has deemed to be substandard, due to an inaccurate order and/or potential other issues.
That's basically just demonstrating the problem with the world today, too many people getting their hands held through life and not being taught how the world really works.
thegiantpeach@reddit
Probably more to do with the fact that they don't pay VAT on 'discretionary' service charges.
Teembeau@reddit
So what they did was VAT fraud.
Langasaurus@reddit
"Thank you for the discount for the poor service and experience; now, please will you remove the discretionary service charge as I requested?"
callisstaa@reddit
It’s a rough job and everyone is allowed to fuck up occasionally. If you send an email late do you expect it to be taken from your pay? This is such a boomer take.
The problem with ‘the world today’ is people pretty much having to beg to get by because their wages barely cover the cost of living.
Teembeau@reddit
It's not about making a mistake, it's about clear pricing, which includes basic labour costs in the price. My garage doesn't quote me £200 for a repair and slap an optional service charge of 15% on. If I see a drill at Screwfix and buy it, I don't get 15% added when I pick it up.
If people expect 15% tip on a £10 burger, why not just charge £11.50? That's what Screwfix do. The cost of someone getting it from the store for you is included in the price.
We never used to do this. You paid the bill. And if the service was particularly good, you could leave a tip. It's bait and switch. So restaurants look cheaper than the final bill.
AgileSloth9@reddit
This is such an american style take.
If someone can't get by on their basic wages, without discretionary top-ups by customers, that's not in any way on the customer. Thats entirely on the business not paying enough.
If the charge is discretionary, its in the name... its an option to pay it. The customer should not feel guilty for refusing to do so. We don't need that yank tipping culture here. Someone not getting a tip when the service isn't the standard expected is perfectly reasonable.
callisstaa@reddit
They didn’t mention it being discretionary anywhere and said that they took it out of the cost of the food rather than the tip which clearly shows that they’re not paying her enough to make the service charge ‘discretionary’.
Not sure where the disagreement is here tbh. There’s no way that a service worker should rely on tips to make a living wage and it’s up to the company they work for to ensure that that’s the case.
AgileSloth9@reddit
All UK service charges at legally discretionary and can be removed on request.
The companies pulling this shit will be doing it to take advantage of it being VAT free, which is just their way of saving money. Again, that's not on the customer, and entirely on them. Theyre effectively costing out a service, then thinking "hmmm I can save a bit here by claiming its a service charge", which in fact is basically tax avoidance in the form of VAT.
ConflictDesigner4293@reddit
It’s a bonus for good work, not a salary. If she made a mistake, the work wasn’t great, so why should she still expect the bonus?
callisstaa@reddit
It’s not really a bonus if they’re underpaying her and the tips bring it up to minimum wage which is clearly what happened if they took it out of the cost of the meal rather than her pay.
ConflictDesigner4293@reddit
This is the UK. They cannot legally ‘underpay’ her. She’s getting a wage for her work. I’ve worked in the service industry and yeah tips are nice, but no way should be expected.
And whilst you brought this point up, you DO know it’s a lie even in America right? If they don’t get tips, their employer has to top up their wages to minimum wage. Most service people DO NOT want this because they earn hand over fist walking a plate back and forth from the kitchen.
I used to tip every time I went out, but the entitlement has really turned me off from doing so.
schwillton@reddit
If I got a monthly “good at emails” bonus and fucked up an email I’d probably expect not to get the bonus. Nobody’s taking money out of their base pay lmao
callisstaa@reddit
Then why is the service charge non discretionary and why did the restaurant take it out of the cost of the meal rather than remove the charge when they removed to pay? It sounds exactly like they’re using the service charge to supplement wages.
emdave@reddit
They might not be paying them properly, and losing the service charge might have taken them under minimum wage or something?
Nectarine-999@reddit
Or worse, the card readers that ask for a tip before they’ve even served you the food and drink!! A tip for taking my money? Fuck off.
And then I wonder if they’ll spit in my food knowing I’ve not tipped them.
Service charges (it’s a restaurant, that’s what you do!), tips (for doing your job to a mediocre standard), charity round-ups (so your company gets the kudos for raising money)- Should all be illegal.
Outrageous-Estate979@reddit
I would have just paid the amount minus the 15% charge.
Shot-Lemon7365@reddit
I've had the service charge removed and then slipped the waitress a £10 note. At least I knew she'd get the money and not her greedy bosses.
Darkslayer18264@reddit
Businesses are now legally required to pass all tips and service charges on to staff. They can’t pocket it themselves.
Prudent-Club-806@reddit
I worked in a place that put in the contract that our tips made up our wages... Not added to, but made up. I always assumed that it meant it was added to our monthly pay so my shock when I realised that wasn't the case and the stingy bastards were using tips to pay our agreed wage. They got around the law with a loophole that we agreed to them doing that by signing the contract.
Darkslayer18264@reddit
I don’t know if the law was different before that allowed that, but it certainly wouldn’t fly now.
Contracts that contradict law are non-binding.
miIk-skin@reddit
They can't, but they often do. Who's going to stop them? The staff who need to keep their jobs?
Darkslayer18264@reddit
ACAS or HMRC.
If an employer sacked them for speaking up about it it would be an instant unfair dismissal claim.
miIk-skin@reddit
Unfortunately it's not so cut and dry. A lot of the time it's teenagers working in these jobs, whose knowledge of their rights is oftentimes dismal, even if the laws were enforced in the first place, which we know they're largely not.
I know because it happened to my partner. He worked in a very popular café in his late teens and at the end of the day his manager would come along and take the tip jar to their office to "count the tips". Once they were finished "counting", the tips would always come back to them noticeably lower than what had been accrued.
Of course they all knew what was happening, but they had no real proof beyond an accusation. Their knowledge of their rights was murky at best and they all desperately needed the income. This is a scenario that is occurring all up and down the country.
emdave@reddit
They can.... They're just not supposed to...
bill_end@reddit
I think you're being unfair, if I were a restaurant proprietor and received, say £3000 in service charge per month it'd be perfectly reasonable for me to distribute it to the staff in full. Obviously after I'd deducted a £2800 fee for administering the scheme.
You wouldn't want these waiting/kitchen staff to take advantage, would you?
WheresWalldough@reddit
why make such asinine postings?
Since 2024 it has been mandatory to pass on 100% of the tips.
Not doing so is a serious violation. While it's possible that some of the very dodgiest places that are also using illegal labour etc, are breaking the law, reputable businesses simply are not.
Disastrous-Fee8374@reddit
Whilst I agree with you, it’s also illegal to evade tax and break food safety laws but some restaurants still do it
Shot-Lemon7365@reddit
TIL.
Thank you.
811545b2-4ff7-4041@reddit
I've previously checked that services charges went to staff.. then left it on.
My real issue with them is the lack of transparency about where the money goes.
Derbadian@reddit
This this this
Grey_Sky_thinking@reddit
r/endtipping
coresme2000@reddit
Since I moved to the US, it’s so ingrained in me to tip everybody all the time and it’s a total pain in the ass 4 years later. Even though the service is always incredible in US restaurants to be fair and I will always tip in restaurants 20-22%, for anyone behind a counter, I do not tip. The other day I was in Starbucks and they pointed at the payment system and said “it’s going to ask you a question”. It was the tip screen. I said loudly “no it’s just asking me for more money!”
Be glad it hasn’t fully made its way to the uk yet…although this does not bode well.
chin_waghing@reddit
Absolutely scammed there mate.
Sadly the business rely on us being too awkward to remove it.
I started removing the service charges and estimate I’ve easily saved around £200 in the past 3 years.
“Can you remove the service charge”
“Was everything okay?”
“Yes”
charge removed
The one place that argues like there’s no tomorrow is Sushimania. I’ve had the manager swearing at me to the point I’ve said “either it’s removed now or I leave you my details and you take me to small claims court” - again relying on the awkwardness of customers.
We as a country have labour laws, we’ve got minimum wages, we don’t need or want service charges.
At work, do you get a tip for every IT ticket you close, every desk you build, every bin you empty, every email you send? No - why are service workers any different?
As for you OP, you can claim this back on your credit card. They may require a statement from you about it however but I’ve done this before absolutely fine.
It’s so scummy and I hate it and I refuse to pay anything remotely related to a “service charge” or “tip”
redbarebluebare@reddit
I pay it. But I hate to. Was in France last week and saved so much money when eating out.
chin_waghing@reddit
Don’t pay it. Stop rolling over.
You’re literally just giving away free money.
redbarebluebare@reddit
Do you not feel any shame or cause a scene. I’d feel so embarrassed. It is robbery but I feel like it’s ruining a night over 10%.
chin_waghing@reddit
I feel no shame and I do not feel embarrassed.
Imagine if you went to pay for your shopping at Tesco after you’ve seen the prices on the shelves, and then at checkout you see your recipe and it says “10% gratuity applied” - you never agreed for that to be added.
As I always say, you’re literally just handing out free money because business take advantage of people like you being too awkward to take it off.
This is how it goes 99% of the time
“Please take the optional tip off”
“Absolutely, was everything okay?”
“Yes it was lovely thank you”
Kitchen-Sprinkles604@reddit
This is why I hate going out. My hubby doesn’t mind paying it but it’s like the service wasn’t even great…? Making us wait 45 mins in between the courses etc. they literally just bring the plates out too. We don’t have food allergies or anything so we’re not fussy customers. We used to go out a lot but I can’t be bothered nowadays
Tricky-Reporter-5246@reddit
You should have to pay extra for using the word 'hubby'.
Kitchen-Sprinkles604@reddit
Why? What’s wrong with the word?? lol
rainbowsootsprite@reddit
it’s fucking grim
wowsomuchempty@reddit
Some places the card reader prompts to add a service charge.
I haven't had the food or service, yet. How would I decide?
The fancy bakery tries to add it when I buy a loaf. Bitch please.
Mediocre_Ear_9981@reddit
There's a dog paddock near me that has a 15% service charge as default.
The place is unmanned, you just show up and it's booked online. THERE IS NO SERVICE.
Silver_Emu4704@reddit
This is the answer. Food you have out is rarely all that anyway and massively overpriced and inconvenient. Just eat at home then nip out for a drink at the local is much better in my opinion
SuperSpidey374@reddit
Perhaps you're eating at the wrong places.
Teembeau@reddit
Tipping should be optional, an action by the consumer. I've tipped loads of taxi drivers who were friendly and helpful. But that's my choice. I do not want to have to remove a tip if they were miserable.
And tipping does improve service in certain areas, because people know if they do good work they're more likely to get one. It's not guaranteed, but it generally works that way. Mandatory tips completely destroy the point.
UpsetMarsupial@reddit
Fuck sushimania. If you dine in and want to take any leftovers with you, they charge for a takeaway box.
Dismal_Fox_22@reddit
I’d love a little service charge in A&E. Maybe a fiver for standard, a tenner if I used the posh toilet roll to wipe your bum or I got blood on the first attempt.
Joking aside, every industry should pay fair wages, tips should be for exceptional service. Not as standard. I generally tip everything except bad service on a sliding scale. I don’t pay service charges even if the service was good I have it removed and tip based on the service plus the staffs attitude towards removing the service charge
ImDankest@reddit
May i ask what kind of numbers you tip with?
Say the bill for 2 comes to £80. Would you remove the service charge and tip the waiter a fiver or something if they were nice?
FrenhinesAmByth@reddit
I read that too quickly and had a cold moment where I wondered what the hell you were doing getting blood on the first attempt at wiping someone's bum.
Icy-Initial2107@reddit
You have Wipe it Till it Bleeds.
jflb96@reddit
They're very thorough
Relative-Chain73@reddit
In terms of the why - lots of place got bought up by the Americans and owners American capitalism values.
Greedy-Nature-826@reddit
If a member of restaurant staff was swearing at me I'd pull my phone out and record them doing so.
I'd then be calling the police and ensuring they're aware that the member of staff was intending to cause me distress and was acting in a menacing way towards me in an attempt to demand monies that were not contractually owed.
I'd also, after any criminal investigation, post the video to review sites.
People need to realise that their actions have consequences.
ClassicPart@reddit
Like fuck you would. The adrenaline rush you clearly got just from writing this will see you through to 2028 at the least.
chin_waghing@reddit
Intending to cause distress and actually causing alarm and distress are different. If anything I would go breach of the peace and public order for the swearing directly at me.
This is such a swing reaction, we’re not American and record everything we’re British. We fight our fight without getting the entire world involved
Skylon77@reddit
You wouldn't, though, would you?
GettingTherapissed@reddit
Definitely not - Matey would pay the service charge, fuck off home, and then write a post eerily similar to this one on Reddit.
Proper_Capital_594@reddit
You made a good decision not to go back. You’d have been eating staff spit if you did.
eques_99@reddit
I absolutely hate that management have taken it upon themselves to get involved in tipping in any way.
it's an informal nicety between customer and waiter ....that's what it always used to be anyway and should have remained.
PuzzleheadedGroup179@reddit
This happened to my husband at a miller and carter in Sheffield. I had already gone outside with the kids to get them in the car and he isn’t great with this kind of confrontation. We havnt been back since because the service wasn’t great at all and the 25 pound tip wasn’t deserved. We are generally tippers if we’re out for a seated meal too just this occasion wasn’t warranted and they had never forced a tip on us there before.
SleepyRalph_@reddit
At least it was a sit down restaurant.
Last year in the USA I noticed a 20% service charge on a takeaway coffee purchase. When I asked why I was told it was discretionary so I asked to take it off which caused much huffing and puffing. There was a huge American guy standing next to me who I apologised to saying I was British. His reply was, ‘go for it cousin the whole tipping thing here has gone nuts’!
No_Brain6753@reddit
Exactly. We must not use the non-existent labour laws in the USA to make our service charge culture sound acceptable. We have minimum wage and living wage in most cities. In the ISA they’re on $3 an hour or something.
craigybacha@reddit
London is just a money grab and unfortunately most restaurants in London are adding these charges now. Which is completely stupid seeing as wait staff are paid a fair wage.
Clean_King_1329@reddit
Yeah I do find service charge annoying, especially when most of the time you're easily spending £20+pp
I went to a burger place in london, got our drinks but not our food because the server forgot to put it through, fine mistakes happen and they got us a free drink each.
At the end I asked to take the service charge off and they seemed suprised, why would you get a tip if you forgot to put the food through?
Tips are supposed to be for good experience/ food not medicore service
Informal_Draw_4827@reddit
My understanding is that if a service charge is mandatory then VAT must be paid on it. That is why most restaurants say it is optional. I wonder if this restaurant is declaring it as mandatory to HMRC.
Dependent-Bad-9273@reddit
Yes it is discretionary meaning you don’t have to pay it and usually you can get it removed just by asking. Sometimes you’ll get a manager coming over to your table to ask was everything okay with the service. Waiters are often not able to remove service charge off the bill on their own and need to ask their supervisor for help. Also service charge is not a tip. In theory it fully goes to staff but same as before change of law they found a way around it and waiters are not making more then before the change. Mostly all of the waiting and floor staff gets hired for minimum wage per hour and everything above comes from service charge. The amount you make varies from month to month but the difference is not huge. Service charge is split by tronc master and usually there’s point system in place, where each person gets assigned some points depending on the rank and money is split looking at number of points you have. Restaurant owners are free to assign the points as they wish. It supposed to be fair but in practice they can divert extra money they could pool before the change of law into hands of the persons that they choose/themself. It is one big scam and definitely not a tip. Instead of paying service charge I recommend you to ask your waiter to take it off wherever you go and tip them directly in cash. This way they can keep the tip and it won’t go into somebody’s else’s hands
Unusual-Chocolate-71@reddit
Mandatory service charge is usually only applied to large groups. Other than that, it will be, a vast majority of the time, discretionary. Being told that service charge is mandatory for a small group is unethical and usually incorrect.
However I feel that I am against most of the comments on this post, as I’m seeing a lot of people disagreeing with the idea of service charge as a whole.
Firstly, it is discretionary. Sorry if it’s awkward to remove it, but if you feel the service wasn’t up the the standard, then the choice to remove it is there, and that also gives the restaurant a chance to reflect on their service and what they can do to improve it.
Secondly, I feel a lot of people in western countries seek the “American” style of service, where the server is a lot more personable, attentive, and caters their service to you. This phenomenon occurs because in the states, a huge portion of that server’s income relies on tips. By including a service charge, restaurants make it so that a server’s income is affected by their service and the amount of traffic the restaurant gets(which is also affected by the service).
Finally, a lot of the points i’m seeing here is that a restaurant should pay their servers well enough that they’re not reliant on service charge. Whilst this is a fair point to make, this isn’t the US; the livelihood of a server does not depend on their tips. Minimum wage is still guaranteed. But I see a lot of people trying to make this point as a way of saying they shouldn’t have to pay more money. Hospitality at this level will never be a high paying job, and at least the idea of service charge allows restaurants to have more competitive roles and for the industry to have some appeal. With hospitality being an unappealing industry, service charge (with the lack of tipping culture in the UK), allows for roles to attract more than a workforce who would do anything else other than be in that industry. Without service charge, the hospitality industry(in which the UK is quite well regarded) would stoop to even lower levels, damaging a huge industry which is vital to the economy.
Jolly-Outside6073@reddit
If they add it and service is terrible or I had to do the work myself - order and pay via app I getting it removed. If it’s about what if tip anyway, they get it but no more. Leave it up to me and they would have got more.
PM-me-your-cuppa-tea@reddit
Name the restaurant. Most are added automatically but discretionary
MiniCale@reddit
There should be a list of all the big brands that try to pull this shit.
Teembeau@reddit
I've actually thought of creating the "no tip" guide of the restaurants that don't put an "optional service charge" on.
zinbwoy@reddit
Omg please do
Derbadian@reddit
Brilliant idea. Either front load your menu prices to include the 15%, make it obviously discretionary or don’t do it at all. I’d wager 15% isn’t likely to hit the wage packet of the chef or waiter if it is taken at POS so all this is doing is increasing the owner’s profit by means of subterfuge.
I don’t mind leaving a good tip for good food / good service because that is earned and deserved. Asking for it doesn’t sit right though. Feels Americanised and tacky and would likely turn me away from visiting again no matter how good it was.
Raiken201@reddit
Since 2023 it's been a legal requirement for businesses to pay 100% of service charges to employees.
I'm not saying that happens everywhere but it is the law.
Derbadian@reddit
I didn’t know that. Is it equally split? Is there a mechanism to make sure it goes to the server and not “employees” who happen to be the wife of the owner?
Raiken201@reddit
I believe it's referred to as a tronc system, a member of staff that isn't the owner is tasked with allocating it.
Where I work it's done daily during cash up, based on hours worked. It goes through the POS as an individual PLU (price look up) so it's easy to differentiate. Generally the front of house manager working will do that.
It's then split based on hours worked. So for example if we take £100 in service charge that day and have a total of 30 hours worked each employee would get £3.33 per hour worked that day.
It's then totalled up at the point you're paid, which is every 4 weeks for us and added onto your payslip as a separate line.
It means that no VAT and no NI is required to be paid and can be a substantial bump in hourly pay for an often low paid sector.
I completely get why people don't like it, and the example given in the OP is really shitty but it does offer a lot of advantages to just raising wages and subsequently prices. We ask if the customer would like to add a service charge, we don't automatically add it.
Wage cost can be kept as low as possible especially during quiet times, while still offering increased pay for staff during busy times
Reduced liability (VAT, NI) for the employer. The employee still pays income tax on it.
It's optional. Raising prices isn't. So you either have the choice of paying £20 you can pay an optional £2 if you want. Or everyone has to pay £23 (because covering the difference in wages costs more).
Tricky-Reporter-5246@reddit
It's not acceptable. It's not acceptable. It's not acceptable. Do you understand yet?
It places the onus on generosity, which then transmutes into something that is forced (and no longer a willing generosity) via fear social of social embarrassment. Either way the employer is being exploitative.
bacon_cake@reddit
It's interesting to see how it works, but yes it's completely ridiculous.
No other industry operates on such a stupid premise. I did spend some time typing out an analogy about online shops reducing prices at checkout and letting you add on extra margin for them depending on how much over minimum wage you wanted to pay warehouse staff, but frankly everyone can see how mad it is.
vikingraider47@reddit
I bought something from 'fanaticsuk' recently and they added a warehouse fee. wont be using them again
Raiken201@reddit
Ok?
Don't go out to eat then if you think it's so unacceptable.
There's a tip jar at my local spoons, and some charity pots. Disgusting.
Milam1996@reddit
So yet again the risk of business is shifted to anyone but the business owner. Wage costs during quiet times is a risk of running a restaurant. You shouldn’t be guilt tripping people into subsidising the business. Nobody actually wants to pay the service charge people are just too scared of asking for it to be removed. It’s a horrible technique
bill_end@reddit
Couldn't agree more. I'd be fully pissed off if tesco applied a service charge to cover the costs of their employees putting my bacons and cat food on the shelf.
Why should restaurants get to apply a service charge, just for putting my bacons and cat food on a plate at my table?
It's a fucking disgrace
Milam1996@reddit
The real real conversation here is how many hundreds of thousands if not millions of people work full time jobs whilst also receiving some form of universal credit because businesses refuse to pay people enough money to live on.
bill_end@reddit
Does that happen? Can I work 35 hours at minimum wage and still get UC?
Milam1996@reddit
Yes. UC has no hour limit it’s an earnings limit. With children, housing benefit etc etc the tax payer is massively subsidising employers mass wage theft.
bill_end@reddit
So, for example, I get approx £400 UC & £180 carers allowance, how much could I earn before they start deducting from my UC?
I doubt it'd be anything near 35hrs @ minimum wage. Maybe a hundred quid a week or whatever, but certainly not a full time income.
FWIW, I can't work at all as my dad needs 24/7 care, but it would be nice to know what I could earn if I wanted to and retain my full UC payment
Milam1996@reddit
I used a benefits calculator and you can still get UC payments on 37 hours a week minimum wage. There’s calculators online for it. If you have children you obviously get more money.
SpaceTimeCapsule89@reddit
I worked in a restaurant almost 20 years a go as a chef. Tips were mostly cash back then and obviously given to waiting staff directly. They were each given half an hour a week to count their tips and they had to take out 25% and put it in a big tub, they kept the rest. At the end of the month around payday, all their weeks of 25% of their tips in the big tub were counted out and put in envelopes for the kitchen staff. I used to get around £100-£150 a month, sometimes £200 in December. The general manager and head chef didn't get a share of the tips as they were given performance bonuses.
Buddy-Matt@reddit
I'd be interested to know if that has to be on top of wages, or can be folded into them.
Because, let's hypothetically say 15% is exactly the right amount to pay the staff a minimum wage, and meals already have a 150% markup before wages (meaning they cost the owner 40% of whatever the food costs the diner before oaying the staff)
If the service charges has to be on top of wages the staff make double (30p in every £1.15, while the owner pockets 45p in every £1.15).
However, if the law allows the service charge to pay wages, the owner now get to pocket 60p in every £1.15 taken while the worker remain on minimum wage at 15p in every £1.15
I.e. if the law doesn't stipulate service charge has to be on top of a basic wage, the owner is probably still the one making more money - just less directly.
Raiken201@reddit
On top.
tmr89@reddit
They were so confident but didn’t know what they were talking about
Teembeau@reddit
It's bait-and-switch. You think it's £10 for a thing, but they've stuck another £1.50 on.
By putting it in tiny type on a menu, they can get away with doing it, if they make it "optional". But what they also know is that at the end of the meal, most people don't want to create a scene, or to look cheap.
PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit
They can be mandatory as long as it's clearly communicated.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/e24-tips-gratuities-service-charges-and-troncs/guidance-on-tips-gratuities-service-charges-and-troncs#definitions
PM-me-your-cuppa-tea@reddit
That's why I said most.
mikethet@reddit
Whilst true it's not in the interest of the business to make it mandatory because it becomes liable for national insurance contributions etc. If it's discretionary then that doesn't apply.
PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit
I agree.
Though some businesses may feel it's just as sneaky as a discretionary charge but with no comeback if the customer wants it taken off.
I just am addressing the statement that implies they're always discretionary. It's possible that it was actually a mandatory charge, even if unlikely.
mikethet@reddit
For sure although I genuinely can't remember the last time I saw a mandatory service charge in a restaurant.
My suspicion is that this was likely a rogue waiter who wasn't properly trained. Also given that the service charge was 15% it was likely a higher end place so some snobbery from the staff is quite possible.
PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit
Yeah I've only seen mandatory service charges for large groups. I wouldn't rule it out for some high end place mind.
Gronk183@reddit
I went to a place in Battersea power station that did at least 8 different types of meal. Thai, Indian, ribs, pizza, burgers etc.
The waiter handed us a piece of paper with some of the menu on it. To see the rest you had to scan a QR code on the table with your phone, set up an account, scroll through and add your selections, and add a payment card BEFORE you got your food.
You didn't actually pay the bill but they have your card details just in case you do a runner.
They added a service charge to the total bill with some lame excuse about how the staff work hard and they deserve it.
When it came to actually pay the bill, the servers face changed as soon as I said take the service charge off. He tried to say you can pay through the app if you want, and I said I would, but it doesn't allow you to remove the service charge.
He did nothing to earn a tip. I spoke no more than 5 words to him all meal and we ordered the food through an app. The only thing he did was put the food on the table.
Paid the revised bill and left. Stop allowing these companies to pay their staff shit wages.
ZBD1949@reddit
If enough people left 1 star reviews then things will change.
A couple of years ago I had a similar situation and left a 1 star review on Google and Tripadvisor and shortly after had a phone call from the restaurant complaining that the reviews had cost them bookings
Langasaurus@reddit
The system worked. Surprised they were able to contact you about the review! That would put people off leaving honest reviews.
heeden@reddit
The reason there is a discretionary charge instead of everything being 15% more expensive on the menu is by making it discretionary they don't need to pay VAT so all the money goes to the staff (minus income tax.)
Langasaurus@reddit
So... Reducing the tax liability of the employer?
tinydncr@reddit
Plus they'd also have to charge vat on the service charge if it was a mandatory service charge.
UsualGrapefruit99@reddit
Not only that. It makes the menu look cheaper.
Quasar8848@reddit
I’ve only ever asked for it to be removed if the service or food was awful, and they’ve taken it off without a fuss. I do think we’ve started to become a bit ‘American’ though, we never used to tip etc.
darybrain@reddit
Service charges are tips to the business rather than to individual staff members. Some businesses may pass some of it down to the staff while others won't. Either way, it's still something I will ask to be removed if I'm eating in-person. Can't do much about it when ordering online. Staff may lie to you to so you still pay more or possibly they don't know because that's what they have been told by management and everyone else has accepted it.
Businesses do it because they can get away with it and the majority of their customers don't care, don't notice, or don't argue.
ohrightthatswhy@reddit
I went to a restaurant that on the receipt made a point of saying they don't automatically add a service charge. I enjoyed the food and liked the service, and appreciated the genuinely discretionary aspect, so I added 15%.
trek123@reddit
If they refuse to remove service charge they are likely breaking the law in multiple ways.
Firstly if it is not up front (eg listed on the menu) then they have added an illegal hidden fee.
Secondly making it mandatory but not including in menu prices is also legally questionable, but less tested legally.
Finally if they do not make it discretionary they must charge add all applicable taxes, eg VAT and national insurance when paid to staff. A lot of businesses specifically are using "discretionary" service charges to bump employee pay with a lower tax burden.
A final point is it legally has to be split amongst staff, this one is much harder to check/prove as a customer.
Agnostic_Disciple@reddit
Leave a google review with 3 stars and explain why. 3 stars as people often ignore 1 and 2 star reviews as rants.
umm_isa@reddit
I always ask for service charge to be removed but noticed that every time i ask, the staff either get upset, act awkward or make it seem like an massive inconvenience.
ItsDominare@reddit
This may be an unpopular opinion, but here it comes anyway:
People who are bothered by this need to get into the habit of asking whether there's a service charge before they sit down and order food. If the restaurant tells you the charge is mandatory (which, contrary to some replies here, they are perfectly entitled to do) then you can decide not to eat there.
tiptoe_mouse@reddit
Restaurants with a mandatory service charge need to get into the habit of printing this information clearly on their menus, as is required by law.
Restaurants with a discretionary/voluntary service charge need to get into the habit of removing it when requested, as is required by law.
ItsDominare@reddit
No argument here, but since we agree they aren't all currently doing that it's worth checking before you eat there if it's important to you.
dazed1984@reddit
They were lying, on the menu receipt or somewhere it always says discretionary service charge. 15% is excessive this isn’t America. They rely on people not wanting to ask to have it removed or like yourselves not knowing that you don’t have to pay it.
Nvrm1nd@reddit
Fuck, I remember in America when 15% was the norm. Now if you do less than 20% they lose their minds. Been that way for years.
ChoreomaniacCat@reddit
If you've ever looked at the server subreddit, they now expect more like 30% or 40%.
SoggyWotsits@reddit
It can be mandatory, as long as you’re told about it before ordering or it’s clearly stated on the menu.
Mortiis07@reddit
ChoreomaniacCat@reddit
Check out the servers subreddit, if they get anything less than 40% tip they're swearing and slagging the customers off to high heaven instead of their bosses who get away with paying them pennies.
superioso@reddit
This automatic service charge is an exclusively British invention. The Americans expect tips but they're not automatically on a receipt.
WheresWalldough@reddit
typically they are for larger groups, and some places will racially discriminate against British tourists and add on a service charge on the receipt where for Americans they would not.
frymaster@reddit
nope, they do also have this in the US
zwifter11@reddit
I’d be interested what the waitress would do if you paid for the meal in cash but not the service charge.
Take it or leave it. The waitress can’t say I haven’t paid
Prefect_99@reddit
Name and shame, leave a 1* review,
EatingCoooolo@reddit
Can we start a petition to remove this charge?
softballdeputy@reddit
Let's do it! Totally against this service charge malarkey. It's already expensive to dine out without adding the cost of an extra drink/starter onto the meal.
Interesting-Bit725@reddit
You can. Good luck.
EatingCoooolo@reddit
I’ll speak to my local MP
vector_mash@reddit
I would have emailed the restaurant to complain, she literally lied to you.
NoEntertainer3191@reddit
I didn't mind service charge, but as the percentage is getting higher and the cost of eating out is getting higher its becoming less palatable. Your post has got me thinking whether I want to eat out as much
Intrepid_Opening_137@reddit
I actively avoid places that do this.
NoEntertainer3191@reddit
I hardly ever find any that don't do this now! Even a takeaway coffee shop added an option to tip with different percentages and I still felt awkward pressing no tip!
BabyBourbon1111@reddit
This has got to be one of the most embarrassing things about dining out. My recent experience was when I was on a date night with my partner and the restaurant added 15% service charge which only came up to be £3. Now I don’t want to fight someone over £3, so I didn’t. But really it’s the principle of it. Don’t they get paid minimum wage unlike the US? How is this normal?
Usually it’s playing on the persons guilty conscience. Because every single time, I absolutely hate asking for it to be removed yet regret paying if the service was not even satisfactory.
On occasions where there’s no mandatory service charge and we’re truly happy with the service, we round up each persons share and give the rounded change in cash to the waiting staff, at least we know it goes to the server directly.
parallelWalls@reddit
I'm keen to know where you went that fed two people for £20.
Beartato4772@reddit
They’re actually guaranteed the same minimum wage as anyone else in the US too. If they don’t get enough tips to hit minimum wage their employer has to top it up, they really don’t like tell you that though because they earn a huge amount from people thinking tipping 25% at bang average restaurants is normal.
glasgowgeg@reddit
The majority of the US is at-will employment, if they ask for their wages to be topped up they'll be fired.
WheresWalldough@reddit
it's worth clarifying that many states pay full minimum wage AND insane tips.
E.g. in California, you get $16.90/hour (at least) whether tipped or not, PLUS the batshit mental 25% (or whatever) tips.
So you'll get people saying "BuT tHEY OnLY gEt $2.23/hour", which is not true in most cases.
nerdfighteriaisland@reddit
They typically make more than minimum wage in the US, because everyone tips. Even still, in some states it’s minimum wage PLUS tips.
lucalucasita@reddit
They don’t want to raise wages, and also don’t want to raise prices in the menu (again) so they do this. you think prices are kind of ok but you are still paying 15% more. I think if it is mandatory it should be showed in each of the items of the menu, the same way vat is always included in the price. Otherwise it’s cheating.
Milam1996@reddit
Sounds like an issue between the employee and the employer.
Correct-Ad-6605@reddit
If they place ample signage at the door or on the menu stating there is a mandatory service charge, you accept by sitting down and ordering. Of course, this is different from being blindsided with a service charge without prior knowledge or any notice whatsoever.
Grouchy_Conclusion45@reddit
Hope the service was good!
One thing I can't stand about tipping in the UK, the service rarely warrants it! At least in the US, for example, they typically do wait on you hand and foot. I'd rarely have an empty glass in the US, whereas half the time in the UK you're waiting ages for a refill or have to get up and find someone
Educational_Ad2737@reddit
Because people are serving you and if you are happy with said services you payt he service charge
EggsSausageBacon@reddit
This is standard in London and should not be a surprise. Just pay it. (You don’t think there should be ANY service charge at all?) OP is probably not from London.
KoBoWC@reddit
It's been like that for at least 10 years, I've been to places where the SC was always added, my company at the time didn't want to contest it so I paid it begrudgingly.
My-Imperfect-House@reddit
Just ask to pay the amount without the service charge on card. Once you've paid that, you can walk away. It's not as if you have to ask for permission to walk away or leave your details at this point. They would have to citizen arrest you, hold you hostage illegally to stop you, at which point you can sue them.
ExcitingWinter1800@reddit
The service charge is discretionary, but frankly maybe you should stay home and make your own dinner from now on..
Dragons_n_Giants@reddit
This is not the US, restaurant staff get at least minimum wage, same as everyone else. Will you tip the person that scans your shopping in Asda? Better stay home and grow your own food if you say no. Will you tip the cleaner at your work? Better start cleaning your own office if you say no. How is it upto ppl who are already paying high prices for their meal to also pay the staffs wages? Bloody ridiculous.
ExcitingWinter1800@reddit
Minimum wage is not enough to live on in the UK, especially since you generally have to get a taxi home and work unsociable hours. Restaurant work is often particularly physically taxing, boring and thankless. You want me to sympathise with restaurant patrons but ignore the impact of the cost of living crisis on staff?
Going to the supermarket is unavoidable. Having someone clean your workspace is unavoidable. Restaurants are a luxury. If you can't bring yourself to show basic kindness to the staff, don't go.
It's absurd to say that people who go there can't afford the tip. If you can afford £50 on a single meal but you can't afford £57.50, then clearly your finances are too tight for restaurants. The suggested tipping amount is proportionate so it's not like anyone's bill is dramatically increased.
Tipping is affordable, and it's a small recognition that you are literally getting other people to do something you could easily be doing for yourself. And I'm sick of hearing this "tipping is only in the US" thing. I've been in the UK all my life and all my friends and family have always tipped. It is customary here, and if you don't wanna do it there's always McDonalds.
SoggyWotsits@reddit
A service charge is not always discretionary. It can be mandatory if it’s clearly communicated before you order, or stated on the menu.
Also, a tip is often requested on top of the service charge.
Tipping did always used to be common yes, but it was a cash amount of your choice if you thought the service was good. It wasn’t expected or asked for. If the staff are doing such a thankless job and not earning enough to live on, they’re in the wrong job. I used to waitress as my first job when I was in school and college, so I know what it’s like.
ExcitingWinter1800@reddit
You say "they're in the wrong job" but if you want to go to restaurants, the job has to be done.
SoggyWotsits@reddit
It does, but that doesn’t mean the wages have to be subsidised by tips. We’re not in the US, we have an ever increasing minimum wage.
ExcitingWinter1800@reddit
It's still not enough to live on, and it's not as if small contributions from customers is going to make a real difference to their finances.
SoggyWotsits@reddit
If a job isn’t enough to live on, then that employee either needs a second job or a different job. If enough people stoped working for the wages that are being offered, the businesses would have to up their rate.
As a customer, I’d rather see clear pricing on the menu. I don’t like the Ryanair business model of appearing cheap, but the prices creeping up once the extras are added.
ExcitingWinter1800@reddit
Ryanair charging £50 for a flight but then an extra £30 for luggage is not in the same league as a 15% tip.
This "just get another job" attitude to me just reinforces the idea that you don't want to tip because you have no respect for the people serving you.
TheDreamerDownBelow@reddit
If you believe that being paid too little to live is because someone is in the “wrong job” then you may as well say that you’re okay with people being below the breadline as long as they do those jobs? Like? What a strangely classist thing to say
electricmong@reddit
Nobody tips in a McDonalds restaurant so what's the difference with other restaurants?
ExcitingWinter1800@reddit
The difference is McDonalds staff are not allowed to accept tips.
Dismal_Fox_22@reddit
Why? Because OP is unwilling to pay additional wages for staff that should be being fairly compensated by their employer? Absolute rubbish
ExcitingWinter1800@reddit
If you're outraged about employers not paying staff enough, don't go to the restaurant.
BreakinBeard@reddit
My main issue with service charge is that it's percentage based. If for arguments sake, one table order a £50 bottle of wine and one orders a £500 bottle, the waiting staff are doing the exact same thing but expecting 10x more tip for one than the other.
Ok-Dragonfruit-2571@reddit
Don’t forget about the £1 charity donation. On which they also charge a service charge 🤯
Appropriate_Emu_6930@reddit
I’ve had it where they didn’t even give us a goodbye as we asked to remove the service charge. We were waiting 25 minutes to be served!
Scarboroughwarning@reddit
All respect to service staff, but it's bullshit. I went to a Brazilian meat style restaurant.
You serve yourself for all, except the meat. The whole gig is a person walking around and cutting slivers of meat off.
So, that's the deal.
Where is the salad bar (arguably more hassle than slicing meat) service element for me?
I've seen people tipping £20 for a meal. Bizarre. It essentially puts the server at an hourly rate well above the risk, danger, effort required.
FitSolution2882@reddit
I've had multiple arguments with my mum over this. Utter lunacy chuckin £20 down for this.
Scarboroughwarning@reddit
A close family member tipped £30. We were there less than 2hrs. The waitress confirmed they receive tips.
That's one table. The server received (assuming the worst)min wage, plus £15ph tip, from our table alone. Assume 1 other table gave a tip of £10 in that 2hrs... It's over £30ph...
It's work I have done before. I've done all sorts. Hand on heart, it's one of the lowest risk, least taxing. Is it tiring? Obviously, few jobs aren't.
whatsupwithbread@reddit
Okay that’s one restaurant, that’s fine, take it off.
TheDreamerDownBelow@reddit
Discretionary service charge is almost always a way to pad staff wages without a business actually paying any extra than minimum wage. You don’t HAVE to pay it but it usually comes out of the pocket of the people that work there and not the business. I’ve worked in hospitality for years and it’s always been the case.
If you believe you had good service and good food, why not show appreciation with a tip? In my experience you’d probably be helping someone scrape their rent that month.
DistrustPilot@reddit
It absolutely does not "come out of the pocket of the people that work there". If your wages were docked because there weren't enough tips coming in that would be illegal.
TheDreamerDownBelow@reddit
Wages are padded with tips. No tips go to the business. So yes therefore it comes out of staff pockets. In my last job for example (well known London chain Indian restaurant) they advertised £15-17/hr but only paid minimum wage. The rest was service charge.
whatsupwithbread@reddit
Guys if you can’t afford to eat, don’t go out. Restaurant staff hardly make more than minimum wage, it’s the only thing that makes them go in in the morning. Restaurant margins are so thin that it’s genuinely hard to pay people more without tanking the business. If you want restaurants to shut down everywhere which they already are then start complaining more. If you can’t afford to pay 4 pounds more on your 40 pound bill than you’re just being ridiculous
TheMortified1@reddit
"Its the principle!" /s
peerlesskid@reddit
UK has very good minimum wage laws, fuck this tipping culture.
Next-Math-3110@reddit
We’ve always had tipping culture in the UK tho… I’m so confused why the comments here are acting like this is a new thing. It’s never been added to our bills like this, it’s always been about 10% though
AnotherGreenWorld1@reddit
It’s the fact that the service charge is being demanded.
Tips shouldn’t be demanded.
People will give a tip if they want to … and have done for years … now businesses are DEMANDING it … that’s the problem.
Next-Math-3110@reddit
Yeah that is fair, I agree with that. I was more responding to the comment saying “fuck tipping culture” cus it’s normal here.
AnotherGreenWorld1@reddit
I think they’re talking about ‘this tipping culture’ … this current tipping culture is shit and it needs outlawing.
By all means ask if you’d like to leave a tip when you make your payment but adding it to the bill is a pisstake.
Next-Math-3110@reddit
Yeah I agree with that too.
bloxte@reddit
I had to tell an American friend that when they went on a trip to Europe to watch out for service charges.
He had no idea and was going to tip on top of that as well.
I agree with service charges for 6+ people. Which is what it started out as. But like everything it gets corrupted
Spoonzie@reddit
To me there's a big difference between choosing to tip (based on the quality of service) and an establishment automatically applying an additional % to every bill by default.
Next-Math-3110@reddit
That’s true, but I’m responding to a comment that seems to imply tipping on service isn’t a thing either because they should be paid enough.
I accepted the service charge (as long as it was 10%) because it deffo happened since we went cashless and i felt bad not having cash!
mikethet@reddit
Cute that you think £12.71ph is enough to live on in London
FlaviousTiberius@reddit
Sounds like their business isn't viable to run in London then
mikethet@reddit
London would be some kind of derelict ghost town if that was the case. Hospitality venues that do not charge service charge (typically coffee shops - Pret, Starbucks etc) DO pay over minimum wage but that's why everything costs a fortune - and sandwich, snack and coffee will be comfortably over £10.
I would say the majority of Londoners begrudgingly understand this trade off. Hospitality in London would not be able to attract workers without service charge and people would go out even less if prices increased to cover the difference in increased salaries.
Working in restaurants we get very people asking to remove it and I suspect the majority of people asking to remove it are non-Londoners.
You may not like it but it effectively keeps what's left of hospitality in London alive.
WheresWalldough@reddit
> I would say the majority of Londoners begrudgingly understand this trade off. Hospitality in London would not be able to attract workers without service charge and people would go out even less if prices increased to cover the difference in increased salaries.
If you increase prices but don't charge service charge, it doesn't actually affect the cost of service charge at all.
The point is it's a tax dodge, which given how hard the government has f***ed the service industry with increased NICs, soaring minimum wage, business rates, etc, might seem fair enough, but ultimately it's not really justifiable and it makes more sense to do things through the front-door and provide targeted support and cut public spending rather than impose ever higher tax increases and encouraging dodges.
mikethet@reddit
Successive governments have been happy to leave the loophole open so obviously those at the top don't see the issue.
ClassicPart@reddit
Then don’t live in London.
mikethet@reddit
They minimum wage law applies everywhere and London doesn't have a higher minimum wage
Tall_Stick5608@reddit
Some places have a mandatory service charge but most places it’s discretionary or optional - I would have asked to see the menu again and if it is optional get the management involved. This has been an issue for a few years. Places have the audacity to serve burger and fried wrapped in paper or a pub meal / drink at a bar and slap a service charge on top. We need to be like France where the whole price is displayed on the menu otherwise we are just the US
explax@reddit
It's just bait and switch at this point. I'd even say the discretionary one needs to be a clear, active choice made by the customer. You can't provide a price on a menu and then present a bill with an additional marked up price and then ask for it to be removed. That's just a form of negotiation.
As the service charge in effect becomes expected remuneration for the staff, it's effectively an indirect additional payment for the food. Id argue it is expected because it's presented on the bill as the final total. If the bill and pos machine gave you the bill and bill+service as neutrally presented and ease of choosing one or the other then I'd say it's fine but having to ask for it to be removed is should be illegal.
Teembeau@reddit
Exactly. You see the price, and they add a bit on.
Tall_Stick5608@reddit
100% agree
Nfjz26@reddit
It’s very rarely mandatory though because if it is they owe VAT on it. So most restaurants would be losing money on the VAT making it mandatory. More commonly I think they lie about it being optional to hmrc
Caveman1214@reddit
If it’s said it’s discretionary, they have to take it off if requested. I personally think it’s disgusting, I will never pay a service charge
notanadultyadult@reddit
I think they have to be discretionary.
glasgowgeg@reddit
There's no requirement for it to be discretionary, many restaurants use mandatory service charges for larger tables.
MrReadilyUnready@reddit
No. If they clearly outline that it's mandatory before you order, then it's mandatory. Restaurants typically only do this on groups of 6 or more.
Darkslayer18264@reddit
They don’t have to be but making it discretionally makes it VAT-exempt and the full amount can be passed on to staff.
Teembeau@reddit
"There was a service charge that was added onto the bill 15%. I asked them to remove it and the waitress told me it’s not possible."
Unless the charge is clearly stated up front (and not at the bottle of the menu in tiny type), that's not correct.
I would offer to pay without the charge, and tell the restaurant to sue me for breach of contract and see how far they get.
It's all a shitty trick as far as I'm concerned. I want to go to a restaurant and I should pay for what I ordered. That should include basic service. And if I like the service, I choose to pay more.
Calm_Set_9433@reddit
The entire price should be written on the menu. No sneaky extra charges. It's very sly.
Interesting-Bit725@reddit
I have lived in London for 21 years and a service charge has been standard as long as I’ve been here. Get a grip.
djs333@reddit
Should be outlawed
callisstaa@reddit
Ive lived in a few countries in Asia and over here it isnt outlawed but it is a massive taboo. Offering someone a tip is no different to saying ‘here you go you fucking tramp you clearly need it’ and it never happens.
Chad-Buttsniff@reddit
I always research basic cultural differences before I go on holidays, and when I went to Hong Kong, the guidebook I bought said they interpret tips as you saying "I'm better than you, so have some of my money, peasant", so absolutely do not tip in Hong Kong.
.......apart from the hotel busboy, who awkwardly stood at the door when we got to our room and looked disappointed when I just gave him a hearty " thanks!" I felt well bad afterwards.
WheresWalldough@reddit
I always make a point of refusing to have someone take my bags when going to my room (often because I don't have cash). Sometimes they will still come with you to show you how the light switches work or whatever, but ultimately because they are angling for a tip, and they ain't getting a penny then.
autobulb@reddit
I feel like that situation is the worst of all possible situations. Being in a place where tipping is not customary but some staff are starting to expect it because tourists unknowingly do it is confusing as hell.
I went to Morocco recently and read about their tipping culture. I was a bit surprised to read that it's not customary and not expected but it can be given and is at the discretion of the customer. So I was like cool, I'm just not gonna tip unless I get on really well with the staff and they give really nice service. Even my riad manager who was kind of teaching us how to have a safe and responsible time there repeated that multiple times.
When I went to get a massage at a hamam the fellow who gave the massage was clearly asking for tips, without saying it. And it was an okay massage, but nothing special or amazing, nor was the general service particularly great. They didn't even have my booking even though it was made by our riad, and the tea they gave me while waiting was lukewarm. It was so awkward while getting dressed to hear the dude ask me five times if the massage was good and to "remember him" when I left. Since I prepaid I just made a beeline for the exit because the price was not exactly cheap for the mediocre massage I got.
At least when a culture expects tips, it sucks to have to pay extra but it's straightforward. Or when a culture absolutely denies tips like in Japan, there is no wiggle room and they will absolutely deny it even if you try. That middle ground is awkward as fuck.
And I think that's exactly what the UK is doing with these automatically applied service charges AKA tips. They rely on the sheer numbers to generate income because a significant number of people will be too shy or embarassed to ask for it to be removed for fear of looking "cheap," especially if they are on a date or with some friends. It's all the worst aspects of tipping without any of the benefit. I doubt workers at places that do that are actively trying to provide a bit extra service or anything. They just do what they normally would do and hope that the numbers are in their favour. That has been my experience at those places, anyway.
No_Doubt_About_That@reddit
It would be one thing if it was revealed on the menu from the very beginning.
Recently went to Edinburgh and one had put it on the menu and the other there’d have been no mention of it besides the bill at the very end.
TellMeManyStories@reddit
The law says that if the service change is mandatory, then the restaurant has to pay 20% VAT on *all* service charges.
That's why it's technically optional but they give you a big headache to remove it.
Personally I wish HMRC (the tax people) would have a tip line for resturants which make the service charge seem mandatory, and then fine the resturant for all the VAT they ought to have paid and didn't claiming it was 'optional' to the government but 'mandatory' to the customers.
Ok-Pain-2444@reddit
A lot of places in London automatically add a service charge now, especially for bigger groups, but it is supposed to be optional. You can always ask for it to be removed and they should honor it, though some staff might push back. I usually check the bill before paying and speak up if I do not want to pay it.
CobaltOkk@reddit
Went to a Bills (which have gone downhill massively over the last few years) for breakfast recently and it was total shite, with terrible service. Told them to remove the service charge as both food and service had been poor. Waitress looked at me like I’d taken a shit on her doorstep, but she did it. Don’t pay for poor service.
Flowerpotstinker@reddit
I really need to know the restaurant
Zaganoak@reddit
It’s always the shittiest places that do this as well. Restaurants where they get your order wrong, takeaway places where they make you stand and wait for them to finish watching something on their phone before you can order.
I’ve had discretionary service charges as high as 30% and when you ask about it they pretend they can’t hear you. It’s awkward but we really all need to start reviewing/calling out this openly scammy behaviour.
VictoryAppropriate68@reddit
My partner is a big tipper, he will always pay a decent tip is the service has been good, especially if we’ve had a few drinks and having a good night however, since we noticed this auto service charge, if we are in a restaurant that auto applies this, it will be removed and they get no tip.
I think it’s so scammy to force people to pay a service charge when 90% of the restaurants these days have 0 service (you order and pay on an app, all a waitress does is literally bring the food to your table) a lot of people won’t notice it or won’t question it as they don’t know what it is. Never will I pay a service charge
ImDankest@reddit
It's a real kick in the balls when they try to add service charge, but when you arrive and sit down all the waiter does is go 'scan the QR code to order' and then fucks off for the rest of the night.
_David_London-@reddit
I find that about half of places now add a service charge. I don't mind 10% and I begrudgingly accept 12.5% but I think that 15% is too much.
I get why tipping is necessary in the US, where the Federal minimum wage for a tipped worker is just $2.13 per hour. But there should be a need to tip people over 10% of a bill in the UK where they earn minimum wage, unless the staff member does something exceptional.
whatsupwithbread@reddit
Minimum wage is not living wage
Mark_dawsom@reddit
This is genuinely the most British thing ever. You actually paid it and now you're bitching about it online? How about actually standing your ground?
escapingfromelba@reddit
Carry cash, that way you can dump the amount you want to pay on the till or table and just leave.
OrangeChevron@reddit
I live elsewhere in the world now and service charge is standard plus they expect a tip on top. I don't blame the servers, it's the business owners forcing the public to subsidize the wages of their staff that I hold contempt for..
Such artful and successful brainwashing that the entire United States has been convinced thst if you don't tip you're cheap, vs seeing the business as cheap and manipulative.
catwoman526@reddit
If there’s a service charge I 100% don’t leave a tip whereas I would do if we were a large table or service was good
peachypeach13610@reddit
Because hospitality staff make terrible wages. You don’t HAVE to pay it but you surely have to be a bit of a Karen to specifically ask for it to be removed unless the service was actually terrible.
Eating out is not a birthright, making at the end of the month with a full time exhausting job is.
FlaviousTiberius@reddit
Less and less people are eating out because of crap like this, what do you think their wages will be when the restaurant goes bust?
peachypeach13610@reddit
Nah mate, people are eating out because they’re poor and cannot afford a restaurant meal altogether, certainly not because of a 12% service charge.
FlaviousTiberius@reddit
Yes probably not helped by slapping 12% extra onto the bill.
xiaogu00fa@reddit
Not just service charge. I went to a restaurant where food was very good. But the waitress asked me if I want some water and brought me a bottled mineral water without mentioning it costed £6.
smalltittyfakeginger@reddit
i always request them to remove it. in the uk, we don't get paid £3 an hour so tipping/service charge isnt a legality or mandatory. unless you've made my dinner personally and given me a 3 hour spa included, no service is worth the service charge im afraid.
mellonians@reddit
I had one place try and add vat on top of the bill the other day. All the menu prices were ex vat. Also service charge was plus vat too. I was on my guard as I was in a tourist trap area with time to kill and my boy wanted some rice but I wasn't expecting that!
superioso@reddit
At least with VAT it's illegal for it not to be induced in the advertised price, unless you're selling to businesses (like a wholesale store)
Hyrules_Saviour@reddit
The only mandatory service charge should be if they have a policy for large groups. Which makes some sense. You should name and shame the business
LRedditor15@reddit
Worst is when Uber Eats asks you to tip the driver before the food even gets to you. Am I fuck.
Or Nandos or any of these chain restaurants where you have to do all the ordering on your phone, fill up your own drink, and then they have the audacity to ask for a tip.
I know these aren’t service charges, but it just shows how weird and stupid tipping culture is.
Emotional-Addendum-9@reddit
I feel you my brotha
Nestanesta@reddit
I would email the owners with a ChatGPT generated legal sounding letter stating what happened and asking for a refund. The money refunded may be negligible but it will piss them off and hopefully they'll retrain their staff.
spaceshipcommander@reddit
If there is a service charge, I remove it and then don't tip. Don't try and scam me and I'm more generous.
If there is no charge I will tip for exceptional service.
chincheckmcgee@reddit
I’ve become somewhat notorious amongst friends and family for refusing to pay service charge.
It’s nonsense.
I don’t want to pay more money than I need to pay - and I’m not going to be bullied into it.
bill_end@reddit
I couldn't agree more.
The only problem is that if you do that at your local pub/restaurant, next time you go back to eat, you'll spend the whole meal wondering if the owner rubbed his cheesy bellend all over your gourmet burger.
Nice idea if you don't plan to go back, but I wouldn't dream of complaining about the service charge at my local, lest you get more "service" than expected
DistrustPilot@reddit
Sucks that not wanted to get screwed over is seen as abnormal behaviour
Human-Instance-2759@reddit
Counting on people not wanting to challenge it but it’s removable. Cote pulled this one on me and I’ve never been back.
Drxero1xero@reddit
the thing is no one pays in cash anymore (or in my cast they refuse cash and have to then pull out the card) and this is only way they get tips...
however it's bullshit i like to tip for service I got not some random figure they slap on the bill at the end.
Mr_Reaper__@reddit
I don't understand why this is becoming a thing. If you need to charge 15% more to cover staff costs just add it onto the price of the food, at least that way people don't feel like they're being scammed if they miss the tiny print at the bottom of the menu that says there's a service charge.
feathersmcgraw24601@reddit
Because it'd be more than 15% (service charge is vat free) and it'd make the menu look more expensive. Not saying I agree with it, but those are the reasons.
Personally if service is good I'm happy to pay it, but 15% is very cheeky
gogul1980@reddit
Hate it. It’s basically a hidden charge and designed to guilt you by making you ask for it to be removed.
Embarrassed_Chest687@reddit
As a waitress, Im obviously not going to complain about service charge, but also, I would never think twice about someone removing it. Thats so scummy of her
jennye951@reddit
I think if there is a sign informing you of the service charge that is legal. I do know that for tax purposes it is assumed that the restaurant received a tip.
St3lla_0nR3dd1t@reddit
American chains.
Home_Assistantt@reddit
Cheeky Fkrs. I dot mind when it’s added for a big group (although I still think it should be based on service alone) but for two of you, they can fuck right off. Tipping is based on service and nothing else.
Can’t remember the last time I got tipped for doing my job. Restaurant owners need to pay their staff properly. Pretty sure no one in Marcy D’s gets tipped when they bring food to a table (at least not in the IK)
accountsdontmatter@reddit
I went to Wagamamas recently, the online pay portal had 10%-15% option and a select your own.
You couldn’t proceees with 0, £1 was the minimum so that is what I put.
Daveddozey@reddit
I went on Wednesday and ordered from the waiter. Not only did they take the blue light card there was no service charge added. Sadly I was actually impressed by the normal state.
WindTurbine16-27@reddit
There is a no tip option. I went there recently too.
Puzzled-Job9556@reddit
I don't mind the service charge. I would tip anyway so saves me saying "make it XX" when coming to pay.
zephyrmox@reddit
classic post where I realise I live in another world to UK reddit.
DeaconBlue100@reddit
getting more and more like usa, needs to be nipped in the bud. if service is good or very good then a tip can be offered/made, it should never be an automatic addition with requirement to opt out, should only ever be opt in and any tips should always be shared amongst the staff, i am less likely to trust the the charges auto added to bills, get shared, and better to tip the serving team in cash in my view
Next-Math-3110@reddit
15% is a bit high for the UK, but most of the time I just check the service charge is 10% which has been the normal amount for a tip. The service charges came in when we started going cashless/COVID.
Emergency_Mistake_44@reddit
People need to call these places out or it will never end. And stop being so awkward to ask. You wouldn't quietly accept it if Primark added a service charge because someone showed you where the changing room was out you wouldn't awkwardly pay a service charge to the GP receptionist for checking you in so why do people just accept paying it because someone brought food to you or, in some cases, opened a bottle of beer for you. Ridiculous.
EuroSong@reddit
Please crosspost this in r/EndTipping - as it’s the kind of thing we love to rant about!
hhfugrr3@reddit
My kid had a birthday party at a pizza express, nowhere near London, at the weekend. They stuck a service charge on that too. The guy did a good job running the party for the kids, but just build the cost into the price ffs.
Beartato4772@reddit
It’s normalised because not enough people ask for it to be removed.
test_account_10@reddit
Cozy club in Basingstoke did this to me recently. Nowhere on the website menus, nor the menus outside had that they add a service charge by default. Apparently it is written on the menus inside, though I never saw that as we knew what we wanted to order. Service charge was added at the end with no breakdown shown to us. I only realised afterwards because our order was really simple, so I knew the maths was wrong. I went back for a refund and they were not happy to give it. Must scam so many people with it...
Chad-Buttsniff@reddit
I kicked up a stink in Cosmo in Manchester. Never had such an evil look from a manager before (the manager had to come out to remove the charge).
The service charge amounted to 74p. However, the principle of pre-paying a service charge (egregious in itself) in a fucking self-serve all-you-can-eat restaurant really, really pissed me off. Are they fuck having my 74p. But, if everybody in there (easily a couple of hundred people, with a half an hour turnaround) paid 74p, they're laughing all the way to the bank.
Unique_Bed1541@reddit
Bills in Milton Keynes do this, constant poor service and add 12.5% then refuse to remove it.
Gaz-a-tronic@reddit
Bills do it everywhere. They lost my custom forever.
Silvagadron@reddit
It was normalised 20 years ago. There are plenty of reality TV shows based around restaurants (usually failing ones) and all have service charges mentioned in their menus. The further back you go, the more likely you’ll see a simpler 10%, but the most recent ones, along with real life accounts, show many creeping up to 17.5%. Unless specifically and strongly stated that it is mandatory before you order, service charges are discretionary and can be removed.
Weird_Plenty_2898@reddit
My brother went somewhere in Manchester for drinks.
He was asked if he wants to tip, so he did 10%. Looked at the receipt afterwards. They already automatically added 12.5%. Then he did another 10% on top. 🙄
Informal-Intern-8672@reddit
I feel like everything's becoming so Americanised and don't like it. I always ask for it to be taken off and it's starting to put me off going out for meals at all, everyone does the same and the restaurant will be shafting themselves. Plus I think the amount is ridiculous. If I go out with 4 friends and we spend £50 each that's an additional £30 they're earning for an hour and a half work, on top of their normal wage and they're also waiting other tables and getting their service charge too.
FornyHucker22@reddit
Just reuse the whole bill next time
Dear-Security-8596@reddit
If it’s mandatory they have to state it on the menu clearly when you’re ordering
Ngl maybe this is mean. But if I ever have an issue removing the service charge I just give them 1 star on google maps lol. It’s only happened once where I tried to remove it and they had to get the manager to come and ask me why which was very strange and awkward
But I think it’s justified - that place wanted me to pay by QR code and still charge a service charge which is just insane lol
AndyOf77@reddit
It's not just london, I've experienced it in edinburgh and other places, if I can get out of eating there then I will basically because "don't serve us then and see how long you have a viable business for"
lucyuktv@reddit
I now have a policy of never paying automatic service charges regardless of level of service, and I tell them so. I often/usually tip for good service but this automatic charge has to stop.
Significant-Math6799@reddit
I don't eat out anywhere, can't afford to and even if I could I struggle (and I mean struggle!) with an eating disorder. If I were eating out and I saw something being added as an automatic, I'd be so annoyed I'd blanket rule take it off! If people are accepting this because they've gotten used to it, I'm baffled. I can't speak for those that may have slowly incrementally fallen into the CBA mentality or just being too boozed up with the Irish coffees or house red, but I can't imagine ever being in the position where I would openly accept the service charge.
If it were optional and I was able to decide for myself, I'd probably just accept the charge, wanting to make it clear I valued the service, but assuming it be added feels at best presumptuous and at worse, underhand, sneaky and insulting the intelligence of the customer!
RumJackson@reddit
You’re overthinking it a bit mate
Healthy-Smell-8374@reddit
la propina creo que debe ser opcional. y sobre todo si te dieron un buen trato pero no obligada
BlackAle@reddit
Service charges seem like double dipping to me. The venue already have to cost out their menu to take into account of all costs including wages. I rarely out out, but I have no problem in asking for service charges to be removed.
sakmentoloki@reddit
I will always remove a service charge from the bill and feel great doing so. If I want to tip I'll tip directly. I don't feel bad in the slightest.
Croakcamel@reddit
This has been happening since the 80’s - it’s not new.
hallerz87@reddit
Just don't pay it next time. I've asked to have it removed, been argued with, so just walked out after leaving cash for the pre-tip amount. Unless you're clearly informed there's a mandatory charge before ordering, they can piss off.
Overseerer-Vault-101@reddit
Another reason to keep cash.
Whatiii@reddit
Ask them to point out where it said that the service charge was mandatory. If they can't show where it says it is mandatory just refuse to pay it, pay minus the service charge and if they don't allow this refuse to pay, leave a bad review and don't return to the place. Just stay being polite but firm with not paying it.
If it is mandatory then make sure they are paying VAT on that 15% mandatory service charge.
A non optional (mandatory) service charge must have VAT charged on it. If they are not charging VAT and saying it is mandatory report to HMRC.
Dechibrator@reddit
If it's not clearly indicated on the menu or told by the staff before you ordered, it can't be mandatory. You got scammed
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