With airline hiring slowing down, is anyone actually finding opportunities elsewhere?
Posted by RAG_Aviation@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 89 comments
Seeing a lot about the slowdown and the CFI bottleneck right now, which makes sense. It’s real.
I’m more curious what things look like outside of that though.
Charter, Part 91, fractional, cargo… are those moving any differently right now?
I’ve talked to a few people who are starting to look more seriously at corporate or 91K instead of just waiting on the regionals.
Airlines get most of the attention, but they’re not the whole industry.
What are you guys actually seeing? Anyone making moves into something outside the airline path lately?
Reputation_Many@reddit
Hiring is definitely not slowing down. It’s not hiring levels after Covid but that will probably never happen again.
Flaky_Summer_9800@reddit
The big issue is the number of applicants has increased significantly. There were over 20000 commercial certificates issues last year. There simply not enough jobs to go around. There is a large percentage of people who will probably never make it in this industry. Even in the best year for airline hiring, it still doesn’t come close to that number.
Reputation_Many@reddit
True, but the question was about "airline hiring slowing down". It's not slowing down.
Just because someone has a commercial certificate doesn’t mean they’re trying to make a career out of it. A decent chunk of people get commercial or instrument ratings for insurance breaks or personal flying I did it. I’d guess maybe 10% fall into that bucket.
Then you’ve got attrition. People lose their medical every year, others age out. That’s a steady drain on the pilot pool, easily near 10,000 annually.
On top of that, aviation is still growing. The only thing holding it back right now is supply. If manufacturers like Boeing and Pratt & Whitney could actually deliver working airplanes/engines, we’d probably have 800+ more aircraft flying today. Rough math, that’s around 12,000+ pilot jobs (using 15 pilots per airplane which is about average for 121 usage) that simply don’t exist right now because the airplanes aren’t there. If those planes showed up, we’d be talking about a pilot shortage again because not enough of them will have 1500+ hours.
What you’re really seeing isn’t a slowdown, it’s a pause tied to bottlenecks in manufacturing and design. Later 2027 or early 2028 I see this trend reversing, IF Boeing can get airplanes certified, and if Pratt & Whitney can actually make an engine that doesn't need 600+ days off the wing for a design flaw repair. Most of the A320 Neo engines world wide will be fixed by then, unless they find another issue. and I'm guessing Boeing will be certified sooner than later.
Airlines always operate in cycles. They hire until they furlough, then furlough until they hire again. That’s just how this industry works. It’s not exactly built for stability. Thats another reason why people say you're not a real airline pilot till you've been furloughed. lol
And yeah, there are still aviation jobs out there. Probably close to enough to go around. They’re just the jobs nobody wants. When there’s even a slight surplus of pilots, companies get picky and wages drop. Basic supply and demand.
Flaky_Summer_9800@reddit
The vast majority of people getting a commercial cert are wanting a career out of this. We’re simply producing far more pilots than what is the demand. You’re correct that airline hiring isn’t exactly slowing down, rather the number of people trying to get in is significantly higher now. In 2022, the airlines hired around 13,000 pilots. That was by far the best year in this industry. A more conservative estimate is they’ll probably hire in the 5000-7000 range going forward. Most likely even less. There by far the largest employers for pilots. There were over 20,000 new commercial certs issued this past year. You have to think a solid 80-90% of people who are going to the commercial level are going at this for a career. Most likely higher. This simply isn’t sustainable. I would push back on your argument about Boeing and whoever else. That’s absolutely some of it, but not the main reason. It’s a much smaller reason at a much larger problem. I also think that’s a Big If whether those companies can actually get there act together or not. If Boeing could do this. Well Boeing has been a mess for a decade now. It’s unwise to think they can suddenly fix there issues and start making planes in record numbers again. I think just m your numbers are wildly off on your estimates. I don’t believe there’s a single data point that supports your optimism. You are massively overestimating imo how many jobs can be created and how many we’re losing to retirement, etc. It also doesn’t factor in the economic uncertainties. We’re seeing right now how one single country can absolutely cause massive issues worldwide in the economy. Have you heard of the DPE Seth Lake? He goes by VSLAviation and did a break down of the raw data yesterday. He’s in this Reddit group as well. It’s a very interesting watch that I would encourage anyone in this Industry to watch. The unfortunate truth is there is a large percentage of people who are never going to make it in this Industry. They’ve been sold the lie that there’s a huge pilot shortage and that they just have to take these massive 6 figure loans out. I’m not saying don’t do this, but rather to have a solid plan. Don’t take the huge loans out. Keep your record as clean as possible. Have a reliable backup plan.
Reputation_Many@reddit
No, I haven’t looked at it yet. I’ll dig into it after I get through training.
But yeah, everyone should have a backup plan. I always tell people the same thing, get a degree in something useful, business or whatever, and build a side income. I really wish I had listened to one of the best captains I flew with at Spirit. He told me that before any furlough talk, when hiring was booming. If I had taken his advice, that furlough wouldn’t have hit nearly as hard. Instead, I was newly married and just wanted to spend my days off with my wife.
As for the schools, especially Part 141 programs, most of them are selling a pretty unrealistic picture. Part 61 schools don’t seem to push it as hard, but the 141 pipeline definitely does. The whole “you’ll get your R-ATP or 1500 hours and be in an airline job in 1 to 2 years” thing just doesn’t hold up for most people.
There has to be a washout rate for the system to even function. The average instructor might have around 5 students at a time. That alone tells you not everyone is making it through. From what I’ve seen, between my own time at a 141 college and friends who worked at multiple 141 schools, there was basically no scenario where the majority of students all made it to the airlines.
And this isn’t new. They were selling the same story back when I started in 2000. What they didn’t tell you is that for every one person who got hired as an instructor, 5-10 others didn’t get hired. They just let you assume you’d be the one who made it without pointing out the fact that no everyone becomes a school CFI. And IF you did become one, they had you for 2-3 years before you got enough flight time to go somewhere else. And you'd be fired if you didn't maintain a specific pass rate (When they were being forced at high speed through an inadequate system for most people), called in sick, etc...
Good luck out there. It sucks looking for a job for sure. I looked for the last year, didn't get anywhere with it. Not enough Turbine PIC time, or to much 121 time, you'll leave as soon as we hire you.
RAG_Aviation@reddit (OP)
Yeah I get that. Maybe “slowing” isn’t the right word, more like it’s gotten a lot more selective. I think what I’m trying to figure out is whether that’s pushing people to look outside the airline path earlier than they used to.
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
You must be new to the industry if you think today's hiring climate is "selective."
RAG_Aviation@reddit (OP)
Not new, just noticing more hiring seems to be happening through cadet programs and internal pipelines now instead of straight off the street. Curious if others are seeing that too.
Wavebuilder14UDC@reddit
You aren’t crazy. I spoke to the recruiters at United and they said they will hire 1500 hour pilots from their cadet program over a 5000 hour pilot with previous airline experience off the street. They said they prefer overseeing the development and training of their candidates and that other airlines are starting to go the same path. By the end of the discussion it was clear that their hiring strategy is in fact changing, and their competitors are changing as well.
Guysmiley777@reddit
Regionals have started leaning on their "cadet programs" as a way to buffer them from any future disruptions.
They mostly got caught flat-footed by the post-Covid hiring boom at the big airlines which led to them losing a ton of pilots, especially captains.
Before that they (IMO) had gotten pretty complacent about the availability of ATP qualified applicants. When the bottom dropped out and they had to start doing crazy things like actually offering more money it I think left a lasting impression on the regional management teams.
PWJT8D@reddit
Lmao poor guy.
Nothing like getting told “keep doing what you’re doing” for literally years on end. Kids these days…
Small_Chicken1085@reddit
How old are you?
haveanairforceday@reddit
Are you comparing hiring levels to 10 years ago? Or to last year?
FlowerGeneral2576@reddit
… compared to what? The one year in the history of the industry when it was easy to get hired?
RAG_Aviation@reddit (OP)
Yeah that’s fair. Compared to the last couple years everything looks selective.
I’m more curious if that’s actually changing what people are doing early on.
Rightrudder74@reddit
Hiring isn’t slowing down. The pool of applicants has increased substantially
Up_Beat_Argument@reddit
I have 1665 hours, CFI/II, ATP Written complete, 1 Checkride fail, Bachelors degree.
I have apps in at every regional. I also applied to maybe 100+ 135/91 jobs and nobody is responding to me at all.
BurnTpotatO___@reddit
Same exact boat as you but add sic type and 150 turbine multi. Im starting to wonder if my email works
HotBackground5187@reddit
How did you get turbine multi hours?? My husband is a CFI and has 2k total hours, but he only has 25 multi. He gets plenty of total time instructing but no multi, and it’s $600/hour to rent a plane to rack them up that way, which we can’t afford.
Artistic-Routine-499@reddit
How many conventions have you gone too? How many chief pilots have you spoke to in person? If none then no shit your not getting hired, either you have to be in a cadet program or be a fucking baller and show up, impress the fuck out of them in person, only way it’s ever been man.
KJ3040@reddit
I get why you’re frustrated. I do. For perspective, you are still in a relatively strong hiring market, you don’t really stand out yet. You have what is essentially the baseline minimums for entry into the airline world. For a long time, pilots with time similar to yours were eagerly taking 135 turboprop or night freight jobs barely making $18k. The regionals are paying like 5–6x as much as they were 10 years ago. This is still a very robust market. Theres just a large supply of similar lower time candidates right now.
Bunslow@reddit
that sounds like heaven. where can one find this heaven?
KJ3040@reddit
I remember outfits where you literally flew for free for a “probationary period”, even better were the places where you could PAY THE AIRLINE to sit right seat in a turboprop? Those were the days.
Junior-Special5159@reddit
but he can’t even get a turbo prop job…
nheckaboom_69@reddit
Yeah, I’m seeing the same thing. Airlines are slow, but charter and Part 91 seem to be quietly moving if you’ve got the hours and connections. A couple people I know already pivoted instead of waiting it out. Honestly feels like less “apply online” and more who you know right now. Even heard of folks using The Estate Agency to tap into private gigs that don’t get posted.
554TangoAlpha@reddit
Slowing down? Everyone is hiring, hell even NK is hiring again.
Original_Aardvark_17@reddit
NK?
DanThePilot_Mann@reddit
Spirit
Junior-Special5159@reddit
I like how OP specifically asks about everything other than airlines and all the retards in this thread just say the airlines are hiring
Flybywired-320@reddit
In all fairness, OP asked about what is being heard outside 121. But when 121 is hiring like they are (between legacies and a few majors, probably north of 5000+ for 2026), the 135/91(K) companies will be hiring as a result. CFIs may have a harder time with regionals right now due to the fact that a lot of recent (post covid) hires have been “asked” to sign some sort of bond to keep them there for longer.
Junior-Special5159@reddit
everything i’ve seen in person, on reddit, and on other pilot groups/forums is that it’s just as hard for a cfi to get into a 135gig flying a 208 at atp mins as it is getting a regional interview
AccidentCommon208@reddit
No. No fucking CFI jobs anywhere. 200+ applications, calls, stop ins and I can’t get anything. Been a CFII for a year now.
Rev-777@reddit
Only 2-7 years to go.
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Hiring is booming, my guy.
JustAnotherDude1990@reddit
What airline is that?
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Widget. But take your pick.
Even Spirit is hiring...
JustAnotherDude1990@reddit
Can you elaborate on Widget? Or are you secretly flying 737s for American?
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
On what would you like me to elaborate, specifically?
JustAnotherDude1990@reddit
What airline are you at that is currently hiring at near historic levels? Widget didnt seem to be an airline when I googled it, figured you'd be able to elaborate for those here to apply to.
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Oh, sorry. Widget is just a nickname for Delta.
JustAnotherDude1990@reddit
Ah, today I learned something then, thanks. I knew the logo thing was referred to as a widget, but I hadnt heard of anyone referring to their airline that way. Thanks.
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
I just use the nickname to avoid typing it out and making more searchable results.
JustAnotherDude1990@reddit
Dont worry, AI has already written an article quoting you. Expect a call from the chief pilot shortly.
BagOfMoneyNoChange@reddit
Damn it!!!! I knew it!!!
bamfcoco1@reddit
Nope, its just another IA call (that joke would have been funnier a couple months ago...)
RaidenMonster@reddit
SWA hiring 1000+ this year with 700 upgrades. That’s a 10% roster expansion.
nedy08@reddit
It's Delta
JustAnotherDude1990@reddit
Today I learned. Thanks.
shansta7000@reddit
what's wrong with 737s at american?
JustAnotherDude1990@reddit
Nothing, it was an example.
prex10@reddit
Every legacy is hiring right now. F9 is hiring. NK is hiring. Southwest is hiring. Regionals are hiring non cadets.
JustAnotherDude1990@reddit
Right on.
Curious how the current economic outlook affects hiring this year.
chadstein@reddit
Hire until they furlough
BurnTpotatO___@reddit
N O
Flyer1957@reddit
Airline hiring continues to grow. Where you getting your information?
Throwawayyacc22@reddit
From what I see, the hiring hasn’t slowed, it’s just that there’s a bazillion CFIs or CFI candidates that are looking for a seat.
I think that’s why it seems more selective, what do I know though? I’m a lowly PPL.
MammothAd7334@reddit
This is a simple supply/demand model. Airlines are hiring a shitload but there is developing an absolutely massive surplus of qualified pilots so it’s more competetive for said positions.
Wonderful_Mode8149@reddit
According to Aeroscout i think it’s definitely not slowing down and much rather in a uptrend
KJ3040@reddit
It’s still great. The legacies are hiring several thousand a year. Post covid warped all the CFIs into thinking all you have to do is fog a mirror. Yes there is a regional FO bottleneck right now, but it was way way worse for decades. You’re all gonna be fine. There’s still a ton of suction from the top.
SnooDonuts8223@reddit
Is the bottle neck only going to get worse in the coming years or eventually open up y’all think?
KJ3040@reddit
Hahaha if I could make predictions like that I’d be in a much better spot than I am. 4/5 jobs I’ve held before my current one were for companies that went bankrupt and furloughed or went out of business. There is no structural reason for it to get worse, as long as age 65 holds. Boy would age 67 fuck things up for y’all.
Worried-Ebb-1699@reddit
What you’re seeing is operators being picky. Not first come first serve- full speed ahead. mixed in with some training weights, but not a backlog that you would expect another places.
LycomingO235@reddit
Selective meaning hiring from and prioritizing class dates for cadets. Anecdotally, cadets that are objectively worse on paper compared to OTS pilots are getting to classes first. The cadet programs have distorted the market.
RAG_Aviation@reddit (OP)
That’s kind of what I’m getting at. If it’s more selective now, are you seeing people branch out more instead of just waiting it out?
Guysmiley777@reddit
They can be more selective because the low time pilot supply far exceeds the demand. What that means is that 135 and 91 operations are also able to be more selective because that same oversupply affects them as well.
RAG_Aviation@reddit (OP)
That’s a good point. So it’s not really pushing people elsewhere, just raising the bar everywhere?
VolubleWanderer@reddit
Air whiskey is hiring again I heard
prex10@reddit
Yeah they're flying deportation flights almost exclusively. Apply if that's what interests you I suppose
VolubleWanderer@reddit
If your a cfi in need of a type ride.
prex10@reddit
Their training program isn't for the light hearted though
Such-Entrepreneur663@reddit
Telling me I’ve got to be able to drive boats and airplanes? Really upping the standards nowadays I guess.
prex10@reddit
They don't like pilots who can't handle Pontoons. It's well documented
PWJT8D@reddit
We’re seeing the result of influencer-induced career chasers, me thinks.
RAG_Aviation@reddit (OP)
Fair pushback on the framing. “Slowing down” probably wasn’t the best way to put it.
It seems more like supply has gone up a lot. A lot of people came into training during the boom and now they’re all hitting mins around the same time.
Demand still seems solid, but the pool just feels deeper than it did a couple years ago.
That might be what some people are running into right now. Hours look fine on paper, but it’s just a more crowded environment than it was in 2022.
What I was actually trying to get at is whether that’s pushing people to look at 135/91/corporate earlier instead of just waiting on the regional path.
Nearby_Force_4914@reddit
If oil hits $150 hiring will stop real fast
prex10@reddit
Go check and see what oil was in 2022.
Oil prices doesn't always mean slow hiring
Nearby_Force_4914@reddit
3 months and then settled. This has the potential to be far more prolonged and painful
ThatRunwayBehindUs@reddit
You are missing the forest for the trees...
Oil certainly has an impact, but it adjusts far more regularly - one of the biggest limiting factors was the availability of aircraft. Now that orders are coming in - while the airlines may lose some money in the short-term with higher oil, they gain with more aircraft.
That has been the largest constraint on hiring...
Bot_Marvin@reddit
That’s what it was (inflation adjusted) in 2011, hiring didn’t stop then.
gasplugsetting3@reddit
Anybody need a new instructor? I have the quals, im not an idiot, and I'm a fun dude to grab a drink with.
Anthem00@reddit
You do know airline hiring isn’t slowing down, right ? It’s actually picking up. It’s just that the supply of pilots has gone way up.
flyingwithfish24@reddit
You gotta make your own luck! Hit up every part 135/flight school/ charter broker/ FBO info board. Everyone and their brothers monkey can send in an online application. Don’t be afraid of rejection and be polite when someone says no. Good luck
ltcterry@reddit
Who says airline hiring is slowing?
Three or so years of more than twice as many CFIs as needed has caused the hiring issues.
InteractiveCream@reddit
Brother what???
prex10@reddit
Hiring is far from slowing. It's also far from selective either. It's not fog the mirror days but hiring will likely be near historic levels.
Independent_Nose_949@reddit
It impacts everything else
Fast-Government-4366@reddit
I know a 1500 hour cfi who got an offer to a regional a 2 weeks after hitting 1500 so I’m not sure airline is slowing down anymore
RastaFarva@reddit
Hiring is picking up.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Seeing a lot about the slowdown and the CFI bottleneck right now, which makes sense. It’s real.
I’m more curious what things look like outside of that though.
Charter, Part 91, fractional, cargo… are those moving any differently right now?
I’ve talked to a few people who are starting to look more seriously at corporate or 91K instead of just waiting on the regionals.
Airlines get most of the attention, but they’re not the whole industry.
What are you guys actually seeing? Anyone making moves into something outside the airline path lately?
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