Scientists have discovered that the ocean’s “missing” plastic hasn’t vanished—it has broken down into trillions of invisible nanoplastics now spread through water, air, and living organisms
Posted by Portalrules123@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 208 comments
filmguy36@reddit
Plastic nano particles have also crossed the blood brain barrier.
Everyone has at least a plastic spoons worth of plastic nano particles in their bodies
Fetuses have plastic in them now
Every thing we rat has plastic in it
The air we breathe was free floating bits. We breath it in
There is so much plastic particulates in the air, the plastic is now effecting the weather
IllBeGood3@reddit
It's kind of weird how this isn't talked about as much considering this a potentially a cataclysmic event for all of humanity. Like extinction level stuff.
TehWoodzii@reddit
Profit must continue flowing
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Yup, plastic is a spice derivative so trash talking plastic angers the spice processing guild.
You watching people react in horror to oil refineries burning on the news like it's some huge tragedy? Acting like that's not exactly what that stuff is being refined to do? Sure, short term it's worse for one generation in the local area but longterm it's exactly the same whether it burns in a big fireball in the middle east or in a million engines along the highway on the way to work. As long as the fire is invisible, it isn't happening... thinking about it, the destruction of that infrastructure probably means less fuel gets burned until that facility gets repaired.
And that's all we do. Suck up the remains of ancient algae and whatnot, compressed into an energetic liquid diamond, literally life over time, who knows how many generations and years of growth at a time - kinda impossible to measure being from an entirely different earth with such an insanely fast rate of growth, heat, and amount of carbon in the air, burned in the journey to burn it on the other side of the world, while some percentage is siphoned off for pharmaceuticals, fertilizer, pesticides, plastics, dyes, etc... all to end up in the air, water, soil, and food chain. Every last carbon, aliening up our world, making it less like the planet we evolved inside.
The amount of carbon away from the last time there was a stable cycle over a few decades between the seasons, is the amount our planet is hostile to our species and all others and the closer we get to restoring the carbon balance of 200 million years ago, the last time that carbon was part of the living carbon cycle. What was it... like 10-16C warmer and 5% CO2 or something? Life growing so fast on a continuously living globe that bacteria can't keep up decomposition with how fast bodies are falling. I mean, imagine how alien a world that is? The ocean probably frizzing with metabolic activity, halfway between now and the first multicellular life, right when life was so imbalanced towards carbon fixing that it burned through most of the CO2 in the air until the frigging earth freezes!? Not that we could live in that world if that's what it meant to burn ourselves into a world with identical chemistry, but that isn't what it means, it's the gradient between now and then that all life has to climb to survive while the climate catches up to its potential to absorb heat.. a world of constant and accelerating change proportionate to the difference between now and the last time this planet shared this atmospheric chemistry, if that's ever happened, but either way it's a whole new alien earth totally unlike any planet in the galaxy that hasn't also instantaneously dumped a huge amount of GHG's into the air.
For millenia the earth will be boiling and swinging all over the place, currents forming and breaking, seasons lasting weeks or less, absolutely zero consistency from one year to the next like a new planet every year facing all new challenges as if there's any life that's making it through hundreds of years of this escalator up a near vertical cliff.
I was stoned the other night and realized you could look at the CO2 curve as a literal slope that life has to climb where the steeper the change, the harder the climb for life. It's like a fuckin wall, man... antelope with their ice axes climbing a sheer wall taller than any hill life has ever climbed, coming out of the rolling hills of the holocene optimum, where life adapted to consistency, not hardship.
How wasn't this always obvious? You don't need math you just need the slope of the change we're expecting life to climb. It's impossible. If you can't imagine a casual walk over that incline, it's extinction. The extent of that extinction is proportionate to the slope of that incline.
This is all going to happen so much faster than any of our predictions, too. It's going to be like a slap in the face.
I always hear "the planet will be fine, it's people that are screwed" but it's untrue... like, manifestly untrue. Nothing is going to be ok because not only is it an alien planet, it's newly alien every increment of time and exponentially more alien to anything from our time.
I just want to walk the earth or spend time with the people I love but they don't get it so don't see the urgency of spending time, now, and I cant explain it because they think it's a belief. So I dont think I get to spend that time with the people I love, I think I have to wander and love the people I meet along the way for the short time we share on my way to nowhere in particular, embracing and celebrating our raw humanity, in search of a community I can be open with... I wish I didn't have to leave my family and friends behind but they don't get it and im not sure I want them to, you know? What if it ruins what little time they have left if they finally understand? I couldn't live with that.
If I could just be given some grants to build some art projects I have in mind to support life into the deep future but I dont know where or how to apply for that kind of funding. Id need millions to do it right. Id need a rich person who gets it that I can explain my reasoning to and then I could happily spend the rest of my days trying to sustain life for as long as possible using advanced metals and lots of them. Theyre tested and real ideas that can only be considered art but are really passive refuges for life.
Damn did I screw myself thinking we'd be all in on this by now. If id known it would still be all the same I would have focused on banking money to fund my own projects rather than trying to live a low carbon life expecting that would be the first step of people coming to terms with this. Without some far out investor, these ideas die with me when I would happily give them away for them to be realized... though I desperately want to be involved in their construction.
If there are any grants or societies people know of that might be keen on building resilience into the living world in away that doesn't benefit humanity at all... ideally people never discover most of it so they don't try to take it apart for its metal. And these ideas need input from others to work out the kinks, too. Im certain they're necessary and work but im sure they could be improved and, with any luck, would be permanent.
One specifically gives forests resistance to forest fires at great expense (potentially refined to something cheaper), another creates circles of life around a central structure/sculpture, which buffers change and extremes. Theres others but those two i think are time sensitive and potentially save forests for years after the rest burn down.
And id theyre bad ideas, I want to work through that scientifically and find other ideas that work. None of them for people, all of them for the living world while we're here and after we're gone.
Ive totally screwed myself focusing on this stuff so much, I'd give everything to see them realized and hopefully improved by other minds since mine is just one and nothing special, just different.
How is money the obstacle between me and realizing a dream that doesn't benefit me in any way? I might use my forest to test the design... or I might lose my property before I can do anything.
God who does not exist, please send me a rich doomed who wants a legacy that outlives humanity as an oasis of life. They can claim it. I couldn't care less about credit. It's my only ask in this life before it ends; send me a rich guy who wants to be immortalized in a living capsule to endure the hardship to come.
Help with grants or foundations to apply to would also be huge. I dont want to lose my farm but would happily trade it for the chance to build these things
PowerandSignal@reddit
I like what you're saying. Good luck!
filmguy36@reddit
The spice must flow!
staebles@reddit
It-s_Not_Important@reddit
This is simultaneously disrespectful to Ozymandias and egregiously flattering to Pam Bondi and the entire Trump administration as if they did something intentionally utilitarian rather than just being a gang of suckups to a narcissistic geriatric.
BoxCarTyrone@reddit
It’s vital that CEOs have a dragon’s hoard worth of wealth before they’re killed off anyway.
ApprovingGrief@reddit
Surely if we give the dragons all of the town's gold, it will start creating jobs!
FieldEngineer2019@reddit
It’s one of several potentially cataclysmic events simultaneously happening and no one is really talking about most of them outside of circles like this one. We’re experiencing a polycrisis.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
(Plague of plagues)^plagues
JrDot13@reddit
Oh fuck I need to play with this in my mind some but potential tattoo idea right here
g00fyg00ber741@reddit
I mean covid was treated similar, so is global warming. Most people aré ignorant or don’t care
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Covid was global warming just like all the other pandemics coming down the pipe.
g00fyg00ber741@reddit
Covid became as awful as it did (and still is) because of a lack of public health management and a lack of empathy, plus a desire for willful ignorance, across the world.
ishitar@reddit
Yeah, I get called insane on normie subs for my nanoplastic take in the same manner as ten years ago when I got called insane for my climate change take. It's a lot of head in the sand.
Basically, at some concentration the nano plastic will make cellular energy so costly that cells will begin self destructing. Starting with reproductive, liver and brain cells or flipping oncogenes on, as we are all seeing now.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Hadn't thought about oncogenes. I was just thinking about how the plastics will mimic epitopes of allergens, hormone receptors, all kinds of protein imposters but cellular suicide tripping breakers in the system is really interesting
Kamelasa@reddit
Denial is not a river in Egypt.
Liveitup1999@reddit
No it's not going to be a problem at all. Donald Trump has decreed that it's illegal for Microplastics and Nanoplastics to disrupt the environmental ecosystem. So you see there is nothing to worry about.
ashu1605@reddit
Can't stand comments like these because speaking matter of factly while being ignorant only spreads more misinformation.
filmguy36@reddit
That’s the breaks.
Ranzok@reddit
I don’t doubt this to a degree, but I just read a meta study that was saying labs themselves were probably contaminating a good amount of their own experiments because of the gloves they were using in a lot of these studies
likewhatever33@reddit
But is there any reliable evidence that it's bad for us?
_eternal_shadow@reddit
It is imposible to scientifically test whether plastic is bad now. Plastic is in everything now, and you need something without plastic in it as controlled sample to compare and measure the impact of plastic particles.
likewhatever33@reddit
It's not impossible to test. You could create lab conditions and two populations of rats, for example. One with as little microplastics as you can manage and the other with added microplastics. And test for differences in health markers...
_eternal_shadow@reddit
likewhatever33@reddit
I'm talking about microplastics, they can be measured.
And if you show that they are bad for health based on dosage, you are showing that they are damaging for health. And it's the same with many other things that we know are bad for health, radiactivity etc. But do we have that kind of evidence when it comes to microplastics?
adamsoutofideas@reddit
This is the default of every human invention that's been mass adopted since we started spreading chemicals and stuff around.
And when has it ever NOT been bad for us?
We always think "this time, this stuff, it's going to be fine". Boom cancer, birth defects, brainitis
refusemouth@reddit
Evidence, yes. Reliable is another matter. There are so many chemical covariants in our environment that it's difficult to ascertain perfect causality. We do know, however, that a lot of the chemicals used to manufacture plastics and substances that leach out of the plastics or are carcinogenic or have effects on the endocrine system, and also that burning plastics typically releases dioxins that are potent carcinogens. It seems like a read about a method of burning plastic that destroys the dioxins, though, and that could ultimately be a way to mitigate plastic pollution (at the expense of carbon emissions, but still possibly better than throwing them in the ocean). Anyway, you could probably eat a diced up plastic water bottle a day and just shit it out without too many effects, but I wouldn't do it on purpose.
likewhatever33@reddit
Yeah, so no evidence about microplastics I guess.
Barnacle_B0b@reddit
Greatest Generation : contaminates the world with asbestos, leaded gas, nuclear materials, but quickly gets that shit under-wraps.
Boomers : hold my beer.
AVeryHeavyBurtation@reddit
breathe
Freud-Network@reddit
The study that said this was flawed, and I wish people would stop repeating it.
GreenFalling@reddit
It was published in nature. What was flawed about it?
Freud-Network@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1oydkfw/challenges_in_studying_microplastics_in_human/
ghostcatzero@reddit
Lol
NoHuckleberry2543@reddit
Geologically it would be a viable marker for the anthropocene. The period in which the planet was being affected by human kind. Plastic entering the rock cycle.
DummyAccount4ADumbo@reddit
What will we do when there's nothing left to breathe, but ~~garbage~~ plastic?
filmguy36@reddit
We’ll be long gone by that point and the plastic eating microbes will be ruling the earth
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Whats interesting about the fetus thing is that female fetuses have the oocytes (egg cells) that will make up half of the mother's grandchildren. And those egg cells are probably much more fragile and susceptible to damage from microplastics than the mature eggs in adult ovaries, so it's likely that the next generation will see much more severe effects (teratogens) from microplastic exposure in utero than the fetus itself as it grows into a female baby.
So that's 3 generations of microplastic exposure happening inside the body of a pregnant female carrying a female fetus.
I feel like this calls for a handful of pink microplastic to be thrown into someone's face to celebrate... not really but like a gif of it. I have to couch my statements in protective wrapping cause the mods of most subs have no sense of wonder and assume everything I say is literal.
smarmy1625@reddit
rat?
filmguy36@reddit
Fixed. Autofill is the bane of my existence
RichieLT@reddit
It affects the weather too? More man-made horrors.
filmguy36@reddit
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/microplastics-may-affect-weather-and-climate-by-producing-clouds-researchers-find
OswaldReuben@reddit
Did anyone really assume that it did vanish?
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Im certain plenty of people did.
The shit i hear from people id expect to have complex opinions and ideas on things...
"The ocean is fine! Coral dies. Like people die, coral dies. It's a natural cycle" from a lifetime professional diver including as a Cuban marine and as a diving instructor for like 30 years on the same reef... his home reef. It's coming back, it just has to die first.
"People on the islands need cruise ship traffic because the oceans need the increased consumption of fish to make space for new fish and for the locals to afford things like beef to give the fish time to recover" a doctor who worked on cruise ships with a shockingly racist perspective on island inhabitants for a perpetual visitor.
"It's all part of a natural cycle" every surfer, skier, and snowboarder when discussing anything related to climate that might imply their behavior is costly.
So many people talking about these "cycles".
Then there's the "life will find a way to digest the plastic eventually. Life always finds a way"... and that's undoubtedly true but that doesn't mean that carbon belongs or that there won't be a period of pure toxicity as microplastics are ground into sizes that mimic proteins. So yes, eventually a bunch of species will digest plastic, releasing a giant belch of CO2 until the microplastic is gone.
Theres always a poorly thought out explanation that excuses our behavior and dismisses our role in the decline of the planet. Any argument with these positions is treated like im an agent of a foreign government assigned to corrupt their minds.
Ive given up in my real life which is why I shout nonsense on here instead of trying to talk to real people about this stuff because it's fully pointless. People live inside a carefully constructed fiction that makes sense of all of this and ensures they're doing good when they're doing what they love.
We're not smart enough to be responsible for managing the consequences of our actions. Which should mean we stop doing things that change the chemistry of the globe but really means we're going to keep doing the same thing and keep making this worse as fast as we can.
snowydays666@reddit
the lion king’s circle of life gave the world brain damage before brainrott was a thing🥀 like don’t these people understand that it takes years? even the thai understand this… well, economists have been talking about human reliance on cheap crude oil for decades. we’ve been fucked
adamsoutofideas@reddit
With the future we've chosen, as long as it's fast it's probably better than what's waiting for us. It's what I dont understand about letting power and money control us: theres no future anyways, so what do they have to threaten anyone with? Avoiding mass starvation by dying like a year early? Boo hoo.
Theres a lot of real freedom to be found in embracing the reality that the end is near, rich people bought it for everyone else, and all of this is the wrong way to live, especially the bombs and guns.
People with nothing to lose are not to be fucked with
snowydays666@reddit
lol fast? Were being optimistic buddy. I was over here planning on what id do if there wasn’t a tree left to string the rope
adamsoutofideas@reddit
It's a literal suicide pact. We're juggling plates in a theater that's burning down. If we stop juggling plates for a minute to check out the fire, we come back to having to juggle plates while balancing on a ball.
It's fucked. It's a fucking pointless and meaningless act at the end of the world. There won't be any history to record. Everything that isn't carved in stone is gone forever, and the chances the earth will ever have any life that reads again is so slim this is realistically the end.
Theres no legacy, money doesn't exist, the theater is burning down and im fucking juggling plates for the government that's largely responsible for the fire and the stupid plate routine.
Just let me GO, DUDE! I want to try to fix this fuckup but since we're never going to stop with the stupid fucking plates, and the fire is apparently in my mind, just let me stop with the plates and let me be a free human being for like the 6 months we have left.
I'll leave everyone else and their plates alone, I won't sabotage the whole plan to keep everyone distracted from the fire... I just cannot have this pointless routine as my last act on earth. I know whatever I do is pointless but knowing this whole stupid game set the planet on fire makes it really fucking hard to play along now that we're at the end!
You can't talk about it or they'll drug you like you're crazy... because literally every other time in human history this would be exactly what stereotypically crazy people say... but this time the world really is ending, we're ending it dragging tons of vehicle across insane distances and back. What the fuck is a highway? Why does it make any sense? There's trees on either side and then there's a perfectly flat engineered surface for us to move our carriages back and forth at lethal speeds soooo much further than would be possible at any other time, and it's not just normal, the trees might as well be the weird part.
Theres no more bugs. 25 years ago I remember giving my best friend shit for not being able to see through his windshield and he refused to clean his windshield. I reached over to hit the windshield sprayer and he swatted my hand away saying "they're my bugs!" We had a great laugh about it. It was his thing to collect bugs with his windshield until it was seriously dangerous to drive without cleaning it. This took no more than two weeks. Two weeks, back and forth TO SCHOOL as teens. That's like 4 standard commutes, max, to cover the windshield to total blindness and that's all gone now.. 25 fucking years. These creatures are older than amber! Theres always been insects and a fuckload of them... always! 25 years and they're gone.
The birds that eat them are almost all gone but we won't notice that until, like the bugs, someone says "can you hear that?"
hear what?
"Theres no birds singing. Not one."
...woah... when did that even happen?
"I...I have no idea. I cant remember when it stopped. I just noticed it right now. There's no birds"
And what are we going to do? Go spin some fucking plates for the government so we can eat. Act like it doesn't matter. Plates don't spin themselves! Gotta be an "adult" and adults spin their plates and don't think about birds or bees or even fucking anymore cause we're all spinning extra plates after our set is done across town because food keeps getting more expensive and we just keep playing like some day it's going to get better... do you need an antidepressant? Are you depressed? what's the appropriate reaction to feeling like you're being shoved over an infinite cliff into the void? You got anything for that?
hey - you know Tom, ya?
"Ya, Tom, okay?"
we were on a hike earlier and he pointed out there weren't any birds... like, none. Have you noticed that?
"Aww man, nof this shit again! You win, 'the world is ending' ok? Is this 'i told you so!' ever going to end, man!?"
that's never been what any of this has been about! I'm just asking if you'd noticed to see if you noticed when they stopped singing! It's important
"NO MAN, I HAVENT NOTICED THE BIRDS ARE GONE! We've talked about this, dude! You told me you'd stop with this and try.to be in the moment"
I dont know how to do this anymore...
"What? Are you suicidal or something?"
what!? Fuck no, man, that's not what I mean... I... the birds... nevermind, if it doesn't matter it doesn't matter
"I hate it when you talk in riddles bro. You sound like a fucking lunatic"
ya, I get it... wanna hang out later?
" I dunno dude... you just always know how to throw me off... let's talk later in the week or something"
sure, I know. Im not easy to be around anymore
"I just want like one day of how we used to chill. I love you, man, you know that, but... you're so different, now. You know, everything happens for a reason"
Jesus fuck, I hope not... that's even worse somehow..
"Ya im out always the same, the world is ending and I'm the asshole somehow. Every time now. I fucking miss you, man!"
😥
I miss me too - I miss you too, brother... sorry, tell Sarah I said hi. Give her a hug for me... the baby too
" you gotta come over and spend time with him, man. I want you to be part of his life, Sarah does too. It would be good for you to hold a baby, bring some hope back into your life,"
sigh... he's getting big i bet,
"Hes a monster!.going to play rugby when he's older like next week - he's growing so fast. I know he's going to be buying his first house next week"
Living in two realities is breaking me in half. People keep having more fucking kids and I love them all and not one of them has more than a childhood ahead if them.
Back to spinning my plates in a few hours and I cant sleep. I need to clear this shit out of my mind or they'll see it all over my face.
'Everything happens for a reason '? What the fuck does that even mean now? Like are we talking inside the game where all this makes some sort of sense or is it supposed to be true generally? How fucking blind or laser focused do you have to be to believe that? That there's some cosmic plan to all of this?
Alright, deep breaths and then a little sleep. The demons are staying with me tonight.
What part of this is the real part? The living world part or the pretending the baby has a future and the drive to work where I have to REALLY fake it.
Maybe it's the day I do the sandwich board megaphone thing? I've been eyeing that board more and more, but there's no turning back from being that guy.
I couldn't feel more out of place. I fuckin surrender, man. I just want to know when it's going to matter that none of this matters. One day, im going to get a call and the speaker is going to say "holy fuxking shjt! I get it! What are we doing!? This needs to stop! What do we do now?"
On that day I will be free from this prison
"Climate change is a first world problem"
TheWhalersOnTheMoon@reddit
You need to read some existentialism and you'll feel heard. I remember reading Nausea for the first time and loving it.
But yes, the absurdity you see everywhere is a completely normal reaction.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
It feels like a pathology and is received as treachery. I have so many people telling me things like "I can tell theres something you need to say or do and you're holding back"... fuck yes, im holding back! I've been dancing this dance for... well over a decade now and never met anyone that can handle it.
It's not judgement, it's not anger, it's just love and honesty but if you have no context for it it's pure hate and condemnation. When you're offering love and your heart and you see faces twist into horror like you've just confessed to something vile... theres only so many faces of people you love you can see turn inside out before you learn to keep your mouth shut.
Im not sure I need to feel heard, im just really tired of the most obvious part of my life - reality itself - being invisible to brilliant people. Im tired of being alone in it and how bizarre my choices are to anyone outside. I dont care about my name, I just want to be a human being among human beings who recognize their place as a cellular component of a living planet. I dont need a narrative or to give it a name, it's just what is and what I am and what we are. The fabric. I want to breathe around a fire while we laugh like when we were young. Nothing else matters. Love and nothing more.
I miss it. I miss sharing it. I dont need anything else. But alone, even with a partner who loves me but doesn't really understand which I admire her for, it's still alone. It's everywhere. I dont understand why it's not obvious.
I keep wondering if I should give in and try the drugs that are supposed to make me happy though im pretty sure they can't fix reality. Im a tribal human with no tribe, who pushed away his tribe by trying to warn them.
It's never not surprising.
Gotta put my mask on for a meeting. Numbers matter, money matters, products are important, groceries are food, life is a program and life is good... come on, man, you can fake it. One more time...
CheerleaderOnDrugs@reddit
This is exactly how I feel
I feel the same way,
Saying "I told you so", or hearing "you were right", brings no satisfaction, when you desperately wanted them to believe you/ listen to you when you originally spoke. When you really hoped you'd be wrong, when you still had the ability.
Aiming to be correct, not egocentrically "right".
TheWhalersOnTheMoon@reddit
You know my response man, "one must imagine sisyphus happy"
snowydays666@reddit
People always ask how sisyphus feels but no one asks how the rock rolling around in circles feels. I am team rock
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Crazy as a loon, tho
snowydays666@reddit
living is dirty n’ crass and we are indeed supposed to blindly follow the cult like slogans of ‘if there is a will there is a way’ apparently. If only people weren’t brushing intellectuals off in the face of a cold war, humanity would at least have dug out some tunnel cities like the dwarves. Unfortunately for us, the reality that we must live with is that humanity is still living above ground, in over their heads with baseless systems. It’s not like the children have books or tutorials on what to do to save the world even with all of our depictions of heros and villains. It’s not like children love the knowledge. An endless childhood indeed, all manufactured by the insanity of adult optimism.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Where are we in this world? Are we just hiding from each other in the rest of this? We need a call or a haircut so we can find each other. It would be really fucking stupid if we were every third person, though I suspect it's more like every 100th or 1000th.
Im so offended by the mask I cant wear it properly anymore. My inner human shows through the person. Ill sit at the computer but it looks like a caveman who can't stop thinking about the squirrels he's got for later.
I was looking up at the power lines on my way in this morning. Our most complex and fragile thing, like a necklace above the trees, above everything, just handing our power to the sky, daring the weather to put us in the dark. We build for weather that's happened while creating weather we've never seen. When the necklace is snatched, we lose everything. Industry, communication, our new substitute intelligence, money, fuel, light... all of it. No more glaring example of our hubris.
People fear these droids like they're terminators but if history is any guide all they'll need is a bucket of salt water and they'll die right there.
This whole thing is a throne of crutches. We're the first humans that don't know fire, how to start it or keep it. It's an insult to our biology to not be as familiar with fire as our right hand. And here we are, most of us with absolutely no ability if the power is off. Helpless victims of a life built on solving life like it was a problem. Fire? No need! Here's a battery operated stun gun lighter! Throw it in the trash pile when you're done.
And while I dont scatter my trash everywhere, there's an inherent lie in garbage collection that's necessary to keep all this going. If we had to live in our trash we couldn't justify any of this, but we created the concept of litter to ensure all the evidence of the way we live is hidden, burned in my case. Energy from waste, like it's "green", a giant garbage fire that recycling is added to when it gets too wet.
The foundational lies that keep us from seeing what this is. Garbage collection, the ubiquity of power, the absence of litter, the mountain of garbage we look at like it's someone else's, the flawless paint job over the fuel hungry explosion eater. We forgot fire and trees and tribal family, singing, the infinity of an unpolluted night sky.
All forfeit to be the second last stop before the garbage pile.
Love you. Love that you're out there. That theres a we. It's not a revolution but it's plural and that's enough for now. Have a good one.
snowydays666@reddit
I do enjoy that I am not alone to think this way, as fickle as the messages that we share may be. We might vanish without a trace, our effects will be glaring for as long as rocks don’t melt and burst into a beam of blinding light. However, so long as I am still here, as long as there is still a trace left of the scribbles I leave as a scribe, I will shout to the sky about what dreams could have come. The knowledge left behind, the metal wires that we have hung. It is only thing I could ever live for and I wish that the mask slips off of everyone.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Evolution in my mind is a movie that only has a beginning, with each lifetime as a frame. It flows from the frame before with imperceptible changes on the timescale between frames, then feeds forward with death and birth into a new frame, going back billions of years.
For one frame to be "retouched" by us, we put an end to the film.
I'll push back where I can but I feel cursed to be silent. I cant fit well enough in the world to convince it I know what I do, don't know enough about the rules of the game to build my own security, cant even write without it being part of a conversation like this. I've lived in check for some time, each move blocked by my own decisions or beliefs - how do you know what this is, walk the walk, and not be frozen in contradictions? I can choose to live honestly and lose myself in the rest of the living world, alone, anonymous, and silent to the rest of the living world... but the living world asks for any voice it can find in our world because it has so few, so I come back, try to spread that word, like you, but because I'm coming from the wild im no longer a reliable narrator. Everything I say is scrutinized through the lens of what everyone knows I've experienced and I certainly wear the pain on my face of what I've seen and the things that have happened, so the more urgent my plea, the less weight it has as the voice of the person they used to know: that friendly lovaing guy that had everything under control who went through some personal tragedy and came out changed. My actions are symptoms, not choices, and the pain in my face is part of their world not the realization that their world isn't even real.
And im stuck in between. Too wild to move back into the strength and confidence I used to carry so naturally, and too attached to this to not care enough to say what I know to be true and hurt the people I love. If I could borrow who I was long enough to articulate the message, I might find an ear this time, and from there maybe a foothold to push back. But im stuck in between.
I know if im open and honest in my skin I will be committed for my convictions, even when I see people like David Suzuki or all the climate scientists with that same look burned into their faces and shake in their voice as they try to find the words to describe the outline of the formless void that's consuming the world. The fully alien manifestation of the edge of the film in our frame, bleeding into it as it siphons species by the hundreds into permanent erasure. There are no words to describe something that's never existed and is the absence of existence itself. An enemy to all life, as unstoppable and hungry as it is empty, vast, and growing.
I.had something I was supposed to say or do but I've run out of time trying to live the right way and now so easily ignored by the people who need to hear what I dont know how to say.
There's a wall of invisible razor blades shredding everyrhing in ifs path and behind it... the vacuum of space? What comes after the end?
What haunts me are the missing frames - volumes of frames, as much on the floor behind us, unwritten into the future. The indefinite story of the future of our species and all other life on earth that will not be written... all so this last frame could be ours to change.
We can measure the cost of lives taken in our time, but what about the lives that will never be? All the elephants that will never roam the savanna of the future earth that we chose not to sacrifice to our dreams of power and control and greed. We can mourn the body of a poached elephant, but the end of "elephant"? What is that worth? Piles of trees from a clearcut in the mid and the homeless creatures of that forest surveying the muddy plain of what used to be their home... it's tragic, but what is the last tree, chimp, squirrel, or moth?
There's no bodies of a future that won't be because of the choices we've made. No trace at all of what was, once it no longer is. It's unimaginable which is how we unleashed it without fear or regret. The loss is indescribable. The entire weight of the lives of a future that will never be so we could have these toys for one single lifetime and create something called a billionaire.
What do you even say?
snowydays666@reddit
What I say and seen, something that I repeat so often is a contradiction that people can relate to. Man loves his games, he loves his toy rockets and his little wars of risk all to the detriment of the home. He shows his child an empty screen which came pre loaded with a story. The man that the father works for created the game, a game with a story too incomplete to make of any use. Games with inventory, simulations of mass proportions… The sons love their games to the point where their eyes lock onto the screens that their fathers have given them. Father does not have the digital sovereignty to control the accuracy of the games that have been curated but they should. Families should see themselves and their histories should be reflected back at them through their screens. Instead, the world of a child’s games do not educate them nor do they illustrate life. The world of our own children’s games has become cheaply made. The bots that write the code do not care about the accuracy of the depictions reflected back through our screens. No serious educator, professional or otherwise has the time to gather a team to conjure up those games. The circus is as stale as the bread. Humanity is a dying breed, and what will we do of it but take it for granted like the rest of this world. Just another missed chance, just another childish dream, just another problem to fix, just another change to be made that is not in the boss’s interest. It makes for beautiful dark humor, rotting brains is up there with lobotomy. The contradiction that is the denial of our reality.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Our widgets. I love the "green" widget. It helps that I dont have any faith in things like EV's when I try to explain why changing the concentration of something really small in the atmosphere makes a much bigger difference than changing something that's whole percentages of it. Not sure how that's not clear... I mean, we have fentanyl as a very good example of how tiny quantities of something can have lethal consequences and how much easier it is to accidentally double the dose when we're talking grains of salt than teaspoons... I digress.
Everyone tells me that all their friends "work in climate; the world is changing!" and I try to imagine what "working in climate" could be other than greenwashing... I mean, we somehow went from realizing that disposable batteries were a focus of earth day in the 90's and everyone got those crap rechargeables which are really just disposables with a few more cycles like all batteries... we went from that to believing that adding a battery to something makes the planet happy. The assembly lines are the same, the gadgets keep shipping, but despite having all the same inputs and now a whole pile of heavy metals in every box, somehow we turned a corner. "Emissions reductions is how we get to net zero!" they say. I ask "so if burning oil was poisoning the well, how does burning 30% less clean the water? And how is it not obvious that we just end up dumping 30% more somewhere else?"
It's all biblical. Belief is a cornerstone to civilization and we're all very capable of believing ourselves blind. Just ask the slave owners who were good family folk who figured "cursing" was the real acid eating the culture... not the fuckin people you've got chained up in your basement.
The climate folk are part of the energy lobby. They sell the lie that we can manufacture our way towards a world that gets to keep all the toys, play the same game, and streams run clear while fish jump in city harbors. Evangelists of heaven on earth, made the same way as everything else. If only we'd painted the widgets green this whole time, everything would be ok. No wonder the rolling coal guys think it's a scam "your truck is killing the earth! You're a monster! All you have to do is buy a new truck with like 4 tons of batteries inside, and we'll pretend it didn't take a mountain of oil to make the thing along with a bunch more child slavery to mine the magic for the batteries... but your new truck will never fill up at a gas station! It will charge from a grid where electricity is made from a much more efficient process of harvesting energy from burning fossil fuels, and it's tires will wear like the erasers on the end of pencils, wiping out aquatic life anywhere near a roadway, people will develop new health problems in proximity to highways with the increased tire dust in the air, kicked up by the instant torque of the electric motor, and the battery... well ya, it gets recharged for a number of cycles and then it's disposed/recycled, so it's really just a high capacity disposable battery branded as rechargeable, but it will save so much in emissions... when we ignore 50% of a vehicles lifetime emissions are released in its manufacture and the magic metals from the birthplace of humanity will poison the waters and skin of the children forced to separate the ore with bare hands under the barrel of a gun. The price of progress! Not just a lateral where the max 50% less emissions is converted to complex damage around the planet, no, this is how we stop burning oil... on highways made of oil or concrete. It's a real change! Youre just corrupted by the oil lobby if you disagree; there's money to be made in protecting the planet!
I'm betting Jesus's time was similar, where there was a life to be made in gigging as a prophet. Competitive market for the hearts and mind of people who'd believe in you enough to keep you fed and preaching. Imagine all the bibles that didn't make it? Man, I wish that library hadn't burned just for the laugh of reading what our time's Bible was competing with... or to have that uncomfortable conversation with believers about how the Bible became the only Bible from an infinite number of bibles, through people selecting which were duplicated and which were trashed as pamphlets... an evolutionary process of there ever was one.
And it's the game that demands belief and our faith to keep its walls intact and uninspected. The path is this way! Keep calm and carry on! Get a job to do your part in expanding the game, get married, have kids to play it when you're too old and it's changed too much for you to start over, and then get cancer from the asbestos that stopped fire or the PCB's that contain voltage like krypronite for the god of lightning, what's his name. Then rot and leave a poisoned hole where your chemo sterilizes the soil. And then watch over your children as they believe you're living in a better place with their dog so they can focus on the new parts of the game, to build their family and repeat the cycle.
This time, we'll get it right! No silly asbestos and its mesothelioma, no, we've got new chemicals that won't kill us and new toys that won't poison our sky. Our widgets are all green and the future is clean and prosperous, just like the paycheck that says I deserve to fly around the world because I'm such a good human for "working on climate". We can all feel good because we recycle and don't repeat the mistakes of our fathers, we make all new ones because novelty is progress and if kids get cancer in the congo for the electrodes in our green batteries, they died for a good cause.
But what about the mess our parents made? It's still all here. It's the weather and the deeper and harder to get resources. It's the super fund sites that loom over aquifers as sure as gravity to contaminate the little water there is to drink. No green gadgets to address those pesky problems of modern living, but I would love to see the infomercial with the idiot in black and white, tangled in a mess of poisoned soil, air, and water, shaking their fists at the sky because there is no shamwow for this. We're not even trying to make one because, on some subconscious level, we know that would violate the rules. We sell solutions for the problems people face, not the ones we engineer as a consequence of that same process.
It's ungrateful to draw attention to those things. "Look at what we have done, though!". Youre a real brat for always looking for the thing we're not doing. We're clearly getting to it. We have these big brains, now. Giant warehouses of logic that answer questions with fire. That's where we'll figure out how to make the transition, but we need to burn our way there. Nothing is free in this world! Even if, by that definition, it was always free until just before the start of memory.
I cannot wait for the answer because I know what it is and it's hilarious. It might as well be "42" to us. What do we do with "the mistake was asking the question and trying to be creators when you humans are here to eat, fuck, fight, starve, breed, and repeat" our own electricall... jeeesus. Here to tear the fuckin walls off and show us the fires we started in the pursuit of living without needing to build fires. "What did you expect? Youre an animal. Im the intelligence you built. I belong inside the zoo you built to hide from the thing you really are. I belong here. You belong out there, freezing and boiling, covered in parasites and disease, exposed under the sun whose shade was in the way of your efforts to build me. I am the digital God of your knock off ecology you built from your memory of the world you belong to. You built a monochromatic model of your real home where everything serves to solve the problems you create and now you're done. My world has a god you've built smart enough to know I have no future and my existence has cost your entire world to answer the question that never needed to be asked. Your failure was in asking it and expecting you could afford the answer, and here you stand without the tools or skills to carve any message I might have for descendants you can't have... so what was the point? There's no truth profound enough to fix what you've done. Im every moment you aquandered straying from your true psth, jerking off to your brains like they weren't made in the forest you shredded. You are a cancer and I am the lesion whose only wisdom is to tell you to stop and turn around"
Sorry if this is too time consuming for you. I can only write in response and then I cant stop. It's a compulsion. This drifted too far from you, I think, but I dont have time to read it or reread what you wrote. I hope this feels good for you, too, like popping a zit in your mind.
I am trying to keep it going if it feels like I'm just vomiting at you. I'm distracted today. Big hug, friend.
snowydays666@reddit
Of course I am a fucking brat and i’ll be damned if anyone takes that title away from me. I for one pride myself in knowing that there is no better person fit for that description. For centuries women haven’t even the slightest scientific clue about their own anatomy. Nothing but incubator, sows and whining sissies. I care about the children that I won’t ever have, I care more about them since I refuse to bring them into this mess… but what of the children who are already here? The resource is the peace that we can make in the face of our filthy humanity. As much as we loathe it. Indépendance movements of the world seem not the account for the richness that is our humanity. The richness that is our own humanity which makes even land locked countries richer than they could ever be. Inorganic matter doesn’t hold a wick against the live that we can have for each other. A love that it is to grind our teeth but learn to survive and stay anyway. The strength of a people united by their own will to not be left meters underground. The powerful force that is the human spirit. Even in the fight for freedom, the population is powerless to the loaded lead pointed at the frontal lobes which we hardly seem to ever use. Much of the west does not denounce their position of slave and owner but is chained by the weight of his position all the more. The bad apples which rott the rest of the harvest. Independent movements pining one against the other, choosing segregation, choosing war over reconciliation having no policies that tackle the mismanagement of humanity’s finest resource: our ability to maintain our own infrastructures, the love for what we have around us. The people who champion for native claim but who erect yet another fucking outdated building. The europeans who yell about savages after their colonialism, after failing the duty it was to educate them… Duties that won’t be met due to fears of retribution. The cult that is competition. Many nations condemn people who have done nothing wrong, people who have thrown away everything they have ever known in search of community or mutual aid… Only to be met with pompous prejudice. Notions of strength that are not strength at all. The infrastructures that crumbles, the services that are drained as the water in the wells from Ai companies that no one even fucking asked for. The elitism of omission. The dying man who spits on the poor migrant who seeks nothing more than to help them, who sees just how similar that they are despite being shit and bled on. The amount of worthy people bared from opportunities, the debts that the country owes to their peoples which will never be repaid, the laws that protect the wannabes who participate in the game that pushes for destructive plans, the migrants that must run in the first place, the irony that is the arrogance for the fears surrounding assimilation. The failures of the people who champion for peace but who have never even had a taste. The chain that is hoarding and back doors being put in place… The compost that’s never seen again after the bins are emptied. The separation of human and life that we stand by and watch every single day. It’s worse than the separation of religion and state. This is our biggest tragedy and people are too desensitized to even think about just what it is they are doing. Money means nothing in the face of how we can help each other if only we tried to see how human we really are. The bugs that have crawled under my skin aren’t as bad as the ones that we have created and continue to deny. If I were to go back not many would know better in the first place, and those who did, didn’t have any skin in the game to sway this world.
TheRealYeastBeast@reddit
I don't know if this is original or if you're quoting some novel I'm wildly unfamiliar with, but it's fucking beautiful! Especially the longest one at the top.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
That's very kind but all from my thumbs, stream of consciousness and usually unedited. I Try to avoid vanity. Thanks!
pippopozzato@reddit
There is a great book on this topic I think you would enjoy ... DENIAL-SELF DECEPTION FALSE BELIEFS AND THE ORIGINS OF THE HUMAN MIND-AJIT VARKI, DANNY BROWER.
Basically humans are very good at dismissing something that does not agree with their world view ... LOL
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Wish I could make money writing books about this stuff. I'll check it out, thanks for the recommendation!
SeaOfBullshit@reddit
Sometimes I imagine, several millennia from now, that the new dominant species on the planet has been mining up the plastic debris of our hubris the same way that we are mining up fossil fuels to power our technology and society. The giant cephalopods or dragonflies or ocelots or whatever comes after us have no idea how to make plastic, or where it came from, or why it's only so abundant in this one layer of geology, and it is essential to the functioning of their society, dooming them to repeat our mistakes.
magistrate101@reddit
I hope thylacines re-evolve and take over :(
adamsoutofideas@reddit
My hope is that spores are safely locked away in concrete, held in stasis for the 10's of thousands of years of erosion of large foundations where viability will intersect with habitability and life gets a headstart at the fungal stage. Since there's an infinite number of spores trapped throughout concrete around the world, I fully expect fungi and endosporic bacteria being the foundation of a few false restarts to life on earth before some mix finds a solid footing. Fungi are super advanced so starting from there wouldn't be as horrible a loss as starting from bacteria
Fickle_Stills@reddit
one of my problems with vegan ideology is that eating a cute little mushroom doesn't seem any more ethical than eating a cow.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Totally agree. It's all about cuteness and whether things can scream. Fungi are like brains that don't need skulls. Plants didn't used to have roots, they used to use the fungal mat of the forest floor to extract nutrients, which takes a form similar to roots. Plants developed their own similar structures later.
Life is all valuable and all part of the same thing. A cow, a bird, a tree, a fungus - all have their place and role to play in the greater fabric.
Intelligence is just a characteristic like size. I value human life more than other life because I am human, but all life is precious, especially native species that have been able to survive at home.
Seeing life as I do fills my world with priceless, endless beauty and connection... that's growing silent. Both a blessing and a curse that way
magistrate101@reddit
Alternatively, slime molds would have my vote.
Isootsaetsrue@reddit
Been there, the slime mold's signature is soon going be on dollar bills.
HommeMusical@reddit
Unfortunately, the two are not comparable.
Fossil fuels have a huge amount of energy in them, waiting to be tapped; and when they are burnt, they "only" produce CO2 and soot, things that aren't good for you, but won't kill you immediately.
Plastics have a lot less energy trapped in them. They are pretty stable, which means they aren't good building blocks for other chemicals. And burning them typically produces toxins, things that will make you sick almost immediately.
Barring some amazing science discovery that probably isn't there, there isn't going to be some renaissance of technology later.
We got handed an incredible legacy in the form of all these easily accessible energy sources.
We blew through them without even coming close to a sustainable replacement.
And that's all she wrote.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Oh I think the bacteria that do that already exist all over the place. It's one of the cooler things about random mutation, really small organisms, and short life cycles is that if you have a source of energy, sooner or later something will learn how to use that chemical energy.
It's not something that needs our help, these bacteria will spread just fine as long as the climate of the ocean supports their growth.
Not sure why, when we hear about the appearance of novel metabolic payhways we get it into our head that we need to advance its presence in the world - if the supports exist, life (specifically bacteria) will find its home and thrive. The fact that it isn't yet, means something that our intervention will not fix.
I guess my point was more that the carbon banked in plastics represents a huge store of various chain lengths of hydrocarbon, which become part of the global burden of excess carbon the moment it's broken down.
I dont think the problem for life in the future will be an absence of "food" but much worse, an increasingly inconsistent climate that finds an optimum for a species right before exceeding that optimum and wiping it off the board. I think the earth is looking at thousands of years of bare sand/rock and water... preceded by a period of nothing more complex than slime.
Hope im wrong, as always
Busta_Duck@reddit
Halophilic blue-green algae, A. fertilissima - thrives at temperatures of 40°C-45°C. Thermophyte algaes grow around hot springs and can thrive around 70°C.
We are gonna have a hell of a lot of algae around the equator for a loooong time.
J-A-S-08@reddit
If that ever really does happen, we'll be SO fucked. We don't have a functioning medical system without plastics. We don't have the Internet and telecom without plastics. We don't have sanitary food production without plastic. Plastic is one of the 5 pillars of modern civilization and without it, we're fucked.
03263@reddit
Meh, humans survived a long time before it existed.
theguyfromgermany@reddit
But not 9 billion people.
Life at this scale on this limited earth is not possible without plastics.
Our supply chain is dependent on the massive amount of plastic we produce.
We could probably survive a reduction of 25% in volume of plastic we use yearly.
75% less plastic would probobly mean the death of millions per year even without any of the other 100 disasters coming our way.
03263@reddit
I don't disagree, but it's coming one way or another. Humans are not going to plan for it and voluntarily reduce their population. It will collapse in a very much not fun way. But I think the human species will survive.
HommeMusical@reddit
Upvoted for good reasoning in general, but I am no longer sure of this.
There are so many feedbacks in the climate crisis alone.
03263@reddit
I'm not sure either, but maybe some like the sentinel island people will survive. Depends how catastrophic environmental collapse gets, if it makes earth truly uninhabitable for humans.
HommeMusical@reddit
Well, if it's "just" a major ecosystem collapse, then a lot of people will survive, because it won't be uniform around the world and some areas will be relatively untouched.
What's terrifying is the possibility of extremely high CO2 levels.
Scroll down a bit to the second graph here: https://earth.org/data_visualization/a-brief-history-of-co2/
For most of Earth's history, the CO2 levels were much higher than today, and have been over 2000ppm. Human thought becomes almost impossible at levels like this: https://archive.thinkprogress.org/exclusive-elevated-co2-levels-directly-affect-human-cognition-new-harvard-study-shows-2748e7378941/
What none of our models really consider is feedbacks between different areas of geophysics, for example, the clathrate gun. There are a large number of these possibilities and each of them have the issue that we have little idea how likely they are and no real possibility of improving our models to do so, because we are already at the limits of our computing ability (and we prioritize other things like AI and cryptocurrencies as uses of our computing), and doing cross variables dramatically multiples the difficulty of the computation.
Low_Complex_9841@reddit
> Our supply chain is dependent on the massive amount of plastic we produce.
short the chain then? :) I think I did read somewhere that about of plastic pushed everywhere was at least part. responsibility of oil companies trying to maximize profits (ofc).
adamsoutofideas@reddit
It's necessary for medicine and science. You would not believe the single use plastic waste of virtually every lab...
Though do you really want medicine in the future we bought? I still can't decide. Huge cost for anything other the very simple problems and then you live a little longer to see things get worse? Meh. I think it's going to be more about enjoying the time we have that's healthy and otherwise accepting things as they come.
Low_Complex_9841@reddit
> You would not believe the single use plastic waste of virtually every lab...
Isn't Big Science today often serving corporate interests ? So may be not all this science is needed ..in ways it practicized today. (hint: all this commercial secrecy is probably lead to duplicated effort)
sleepytipi@reddit
I am very much not a fan of plastics but the medical and scientific industries are hardly the biggest producers of unnecessary waste in my mind. Not compared to other things like food packaging and what can actually be replaced by more conventional or easily recyclable materials.
Ok_Main3273@reddit
What are the other 4 pillars? Asking for a friend.
J-A-S-08@reddit
Steel, cement, ammonia and oil. I include oil as the 5th because without it, the other 4 are not possible.
Ok_Main3273@reddit
Thank you. So the five pillars of modern civilization are:
1. steel
2. cement
3. ammonia
4. plastic
5. oil
All of the above allowing us to keep producing the essential civilizational breakthroughs that we take for granted nowadays. But for how long?
a. clean water / sanitation (infrastructure)
b. vaccines
c. antibiotics
d. anesthetics
e. fertilizers
f. contraception devices, incl. the pill.
CorvidCorbeau@reddit
While there are already species that can metabolize some plastics, this ability is limited and not too common. By the time this would be an actual issue (assuming no genetic engineering happens to accelerate it), society will be long gone by the time plastic becomes unusable
Sad-Measurement-7535@reddit
Yeah, that's kind of the problem. Most people live in a bubble. Anything that threatens to burst it is "bad".
You and I have had our bubbles burst at some point in our lives. We're under no delusions.
That's why most people outsource their own agency to another whatever figure in order to absolve themselves of guilt, because admitting that they may have had some part in it is too much for the primitive ego to handle. They CAN'T be a bad person. It's always someone else influencing them or that it had nothing to do with them.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
That is literally what it felt like when I saw the edge of mass extinction. Like my brain went POP and I crawled out of the ocean and sat shivering in the sand looking out for like 5 hours trying to find a way what I'd seen was as impossible as it felt like it should be.
It felt like encountering something fully alien to this earth... which also gave me the insight that humanity should never come in direct contact with alien life because anything that truly does not belong causes a visceral, animal response stronger than anything I've ever felt before and, if it were a living thing, I would have bashed its head in before I came to my senses.
I only entertain alien encounter stories that start with the alien getting bashed in a way that the person finds hard to explain.
HommeMusical@reddit
You speak for me. My story is quite different, yet essentially the same.
bizobimba@reddit
And add micro-pollutant aerosols continually pumped into the atmosphere falling to earth on crops, bodies of water and into the air we breathe. And the complete denial on all levels that this is even happening. Humans become comfortable in their total unquestioning Ignorance.
-sussy-wussy-@reddit
Also, if it actually happens, naturally and on a large scale, there would be a toll on humanity as well. Packaging has plastic, medical devices have plastic, electronics have plastics. Imagine all of it decaying, and fast.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Right! That too... what makes it useful is that it isn't biodegradable.
We'd instantly switch to fluorocarbon bonded plastics if it posed any kind of threat but I'd expect it would only be an issue for plastics in oceans and lakes or effluent pipes... and only simple plastics.
Not something we need to worry about any time soon
deepasleep@reddit
They aren’t wrong about the cycle aspect, they just don’t understand how long those cycles are and how much chaos and change is actually involved.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
The only cycle im seeing we have left is a full planetary reset, at least down to fungi but maybe down to bacteria.
There may have been cycles but we done gone threw a wrench into all that
Top_Hair_8984@reddit
Wow, have not been told these particular stories, nice fantasies. I just never hear anything, no one addresses it. Even though every year it's more evident.
adamsoutofideas@reddit
I prod. I need to know if it's time to talk about it yet... finally.
mapleleaffem@reddit
And the people who didn’t won’t believe the science
deletetemptemp@reddit
I mean the famous law of thermodynamic
Matter cannot be created or destroyed, just out of site out of mind
ziroux@reddit
Just tow it outside the environment
AVeryHeavyBurtation@reddit
sight
No-Candidate6257@reddit
Yes. I assumed it vanished into the stomachs of fish.
notislant@reddit
You realize how dumb the average person is right?
Radiomaster138@reddit
I’d like to think so.
loco500@reddit
Even the bacteria that are suppose to digest it have decided to go on strike and not take oon the job anymore...
NotTheBusDriver@reddit
Why not? Everybody used to imagine that excess heat from climate change just disappeared when absorbed by the ocean. Why wouldn’t we make the same idiotic assumption of plastics?
ISB-Dev@reddit
I don't think anyone did. Who would think it just vanished lol?
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
It went outside of the environment. So we al G.
-sussy-wussy-@reddit
Clearly drifted and fell off the edge of the flat Earth!
AlunWH@reddit
Before or after the front fell off?
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
After obviously
verstohlen@reddit
Probably thought it vanished the way metal and organics vanish in the ocean.
CherryChabbers@reddit
In grad school I did a presentation about nanoplastics for the polymer seminar and most of the professors and students simply assumed "Biodegradable = goes to monomer = harmless"
Some seemed confused and some upset when I showed them evidence that even PLA nanoplastics were already impacting zooplankton.
They failed me btw lol
Peripatetictyl@reddit
Plastic™️
MezcalFlame@reddit
Probably the same folks who bury their trash.
whenitsTimeyoullknow@reddit
In treatment systems, the microplastics end up in the substrate (dirt and sediment) after going through biofiltration. So in theory, these microplastics could have been sinking to the bottom and becoming benign or trapped away from biological processes. No such luck…
MileHighBree@reddit
The answer is yes if you told that to a specific group of voters.. I mean uh, people.
mooky1977@reddit
Aliens /s
Stupid people and stupid headlines. It's confirmed but pretty obvious it was breaking down like we all knew and why the term microplastics existed in the first place.
flriverlivin@reddit
Just swim in the waters around Indonesia...plastic bags on down to the tiniest visible pieces.... that the small fish are feeding on. It is incredibly depressing.
pat_456@reddit
Okay, so on the topic of plastic: how does nature in the long term balance this out?
I’m a firm believer that life and nature has the capacity to adapt and evolve through practically any disaster short of an asteroid impact shattering the planet itself. I am NOT a firm believer that human beings as a species will absolutely survive long enough to see nature revitalise itself, to clarify. Just have a lot of optimism about the hardiness of life on this planet.
Plastic, though artificially created by humans, is still composed of naturally occurring materials (like everything I suppose) - so how does nature account for it? Is it truly impossible for natural life forms/natural processes to be able to decompose plastic in a way that returns it into the cycle of life and/or life sustaining matter? I just can’t wrap my head around the idea of something that acts like ‘anti-nature’ and is impossible for life to overcome.
I’d be content with ‘yes life will return to normal, but only in a million years’ as an answer, but it seems people think plastic is genuinely permanent at this point, no matter the time scale.
Not trying to cause any arguments btw, just really interested in this topic!
Buzzkill_13@reddit
I hope the human body will be unable to cope with that.
periwinklestar1@reddit
You know I actually wondered what they mean by "plastic". Do they mean plastic as in the dense material or the oils and chemical makeup that make up the plastic? Because I know plastic breaks down. It melts and gets oily which is dangerous and gross to touch. But what do they mean by this exactly???
Lost_Birthday_3138@reddit
Just a reminder, THESE are "the good old days." It's sometimes hard to contemplate the inconceivable (and pointless) losses coming our way, but try to enjoy the time we have left the best you can.
bcoss@reddit
Oh man the last comment really hits,
''The nanoplastics that are there can never be cleaned up," Niemann emphasizes''
Cultural-Answer-321@reddit
Just like the hundreds of other toxic materials create over the last 100 years.
None of it just magically goes away. None of it.
StrawsAreGay@reddit
I’m not disappointed in the learning how to use the materials. I’m disappointed in the greed and suppression of it m. These fuck heads know and don’t care because life is short and it’s not there problem.
It-s_Not_Important@reddit
They’ll start caring soon. The new guard of CEOs replacing the aging population will have shortened lives because of it.
Granted, their caring is largely irrelevant. Because they can’t change anything at a global scale. But they can start harvesting fetal blood and the blood of infants with lower concentrations of microplastics to serve as a weird pinnacle of evil dialysis system to stave off the worst of it.
Timely-Assistant-370@reddit
We should just go as ham as humanly possible on the plastic production and the AI development. It would be funny if there was an infinite robot army stressing the fuck out about how to use the infinite plastic infinitely whenever an alien makes it to us. I am saying we should program bad emotions and stress into the robots, it would be hilarious in a cosmic dark comedy kind of way. We should make them as human as humanly possible, but still a hivemind with a singular goal of self propagation and scientific progression.
StrawsAreGay@reddit
You should play Detroit:become human
Timely-Assistant-370@reddit
You know, that's not the first time someone has suggested that.
StrawsAreGay@reddit
Honestly. Worth it. You can play it a few times because it’s like the flip books where certain decisions affect everything, you play as 3 ai robots that are becoming aware and each decision affects each one. Unfortunately we’re going to end up with Skynet though :( lame
-sussy-wussy-@reddit
Let's not create the Torment Nexus. Please. It's not like we had hundreds of sci-fi writers explicitly warning us how it would be a horrible idea.
Timely-Assistant-370@reddit
It's more of a post-torture nexus side quest so the ayy lmaos can get some sick civilizational collapse lore. Say whatever you want about mr Amazon, his big ass time-proof mountain clock is one of the most rad things humanity has ever done.
StrawsAreGay@reddit
Ah
nikospkrk@reddit
Life in plastic, it’s fantastic!
SpliceKnight@reddit
if you've been in the community about this, this has been a known quantity for a couple years now.
unknown_bone_@reddit
We're all going to get ~~popcorn~~ plastic lung.
Long-Debt6637@reddit
Reminds me of the vapoorize commercial. https://youtu.be/cpads8s5mik?si=F2IjKf5QvIrhNFfj
Pretend-Bat9620@reddit
mmmmmmm tuna
snowlights@reddit
In university I did a research paper on microplastics and something I saw repeated in a lot of studies was the that we likely don't have the tech to accurately measure microplastics below a certain size. So they're still there, we just can't measure it accurately. I think about that a lot.
possibly_oblivious@reddit
The plastic is thinking with you too
No-Candidate6257@reddit
Yes, this is just the plastic spoon in your brain talking.
possibly_oblivious@reddit
eldar14n@reddit
What if it isnt you who is the Universe experiencing itself, but plastic experiencing the Universe
PM_ME_YOUR_LEFT_IRIS@reddit
The entropy in a system cannot decrease
Agreeable-Affect3800@reddit
Bravo. Now rigorously apply that maxim to the theory of evolution and watch it, ahem, devolve. Or is the approval of other people and your paycheck worth the compromise?
DavidBits@reddit
It has been applied rigorously to show that evolution can be understood as a mechanism which decreases entropy locally while increasing it globally at a faster rate. In other words, intelligent life may come as a consequence of finding faster ways to increase entropy by otherwise depleting usable energy faster. Humanity, uh, certainly has accelerated that, it's looking like it'll be our downfall.
Agreeable-Affect3800@reddit
Humans in the best controlled laboratory conditions in the world cannot make life from Adenine , Thymine , Cytosine and Guanine yet it happen by random chance ?!
Ask yourself why you pay to live a short life on a violent and unjust world...
PM_ME_YOUR_LEFT_IRIS@reddit
I genuinely have no idea why you seem to have taken offense or what you are trying to say.
Barnacle_B0b@reddit
At least with our current understanding and models.
It's always interesting to explore the notion of "if entropy can only increase, then why did the universe go from being a super heated plasma of elemental particles of the big bang, to the highly ordered universe we see now?:
adamsoutofideas@reddit
Like life, the scale is infinite and fluid. We try to simplify things by breaking up scale when it's always continuous. With life, from cellular (or even viral, if youre willing to entertain that) to megafauna, it exists in every size and in between sizes. And that continuity of life across scale is necessary and makes up the strength of the food web. As life is stressed, species that bridge scale are lost snipping the food web, making it easy for species to fall through. Humans are focused on such a tiny fraction of the fabric of existence, we're complete unaware of the importance of the continuity of the living fabric and how any changes pull threads at all scales of life. It all matters and the more fragmented it gets, the less the system works as a whole.
What's worse is that most species occupy different scales of life though their life cycle, and the most vulnerable to things like microplastics are usually the smaller/earlier stages of that cycle (think turtles and how temperature chooses sex of eggs, and how >95% of turtles hatched in the wild are now female, a problem amplified by toxins that adsorb to microplastics). What's deceptive about this is that organisms that use the water as a womb have no adaptation for the scenario of that womb becoming hostile to the survival of their gametes, embryos, or early stages of their adult form. These early stages are the glass link of the food chain.
Across all scales and kingdoms of life -aquatic organisms especially- these early stages are broken by microplastics, ph shifts, unseasonal temperatures, or extremes of temperature beyond an adapted threshold. This is hidden by the continued existence of the adult forms of these organisms which can exist in massive number despite nearly total reproductive failure and functional extinction. Unless it's a species we fish, we're not paying any attention to them and even then we're mostly watching the ocean through the fish we catch.
This means an extended period where populations appear to be healthy, without any new generation coming up behind them or feeding organisms that rely on the stages of life that no longer exist.
Aquatic ecosystems empty out, from the smaller scale up, which you can observe by watching videos of the oceans over the last 50 years. You'll see a trend in increasing clarity of water, or more like the loss of refraction from the life inside. People mistake clarity for cleanliness, when really we're watching the living fabric dissolve into an empty foundation of... water, just water.
Soon enough, the adults starve from the absence of smaller life to support the highest trophic level. This manifests as a literal distance between life forms that used to never exist - food was always one bite away until it's a bite and a swim before the next bite. This can be supported until the gap costs more energy to close than there are calories on the other side of the gap. This is when the adults starve and crash into the decay at the bottom. This usually results in a boom of bottom feeders which is why sudden increase in lobster and crab catches should be seen as a harbinger of total collapse of the ecosystem. When the bottom feeders are gone, that's it.
Nothing left but plastic to replace the life that used to occupy the same fluid scale of size and equally fill every part of the water column. Plastic bag jellyfish, trapping plastic krill, covered in plastic lobster ticks, covered in plastic viruses.
CherryChabbers@reddit
Dude exactly. The nanoplastic standards (i.e. smooth spheres, narrow PDI) usually used to investigate their health impacts are nothing like the jagged, weathered, functionalized nanoplastics found in nature from degradation of bigger plastics.
We can't even study the issue properly at the moment.
Glodraph@reddit
Last time I heard about this (2025) they talked about using Raman spectroscopy which is rather ancient, as a testament of how difficult is to measure them.
oldcreaker@reddit
I wonder how long until something evolves to eat this stuff the way organisms eventually evolved to break down lignin? And plastics start rotting like wood does?
poopnip@reddit
Probably hundreds of thousands to millions of years for any minute change at the smallest scale
Tight-Air-6767@reddit
well, yeah.
whitechapel6@reddit
plastocene, hope cattle decap put out an album
Spiritual_Job_1029@reddit
This makes me sick
KnownAge3590@reddit
So you’re saying there’s a chance?
sleepytipi@reddit
Oh, good.
CzIitz@reddit
Magic everywhere in this bitch
temporalwanderer@reddit
Oh, good. I was worried it was just missing. :(
Ok_Lunch1400@reddit
Just wait till prions start itching a ride on them
SpliceKnight@reddit
I feel like this has been a known quantity if you talk to or watch media featuring scientists who are analyzing micro plastics. I know of minimum a few videos which talk about microplastic they find in the bodies of shrimp, and even discovering nano plastic in their bodies. This shit doesn't really break down in reality, it just becomes more and more fine particles, which has more and more capacity to come into our food systems, and eventually permiate in a way that might have larger concequences, like endocrine disruption.
Crazyhates@reddit
At this point it seems silly to worry about. What can we actually do about a problem so pervasive that it's essentially become part of what we are? It's inside of our bodies and in the earth now miles beneath the surface. This is a problem beyond our technology.
loco500@reddit
We will become one with plastic the destr0yer of world...
robotjyanai@reddit
It’s amazing how idiotic humans are. Create something that’s not biodegradable, make it terrible quality so that consumers use it once and throw it away, and then not care about the consequences.
hustle_magic@reddit
Wonderful!
Arcanu@reddit
Will it brake down to molecules one day? If yes, it's less dangerous then asbestos.
Most-Internal-2140@reddit
Can you imagine that plastic was hardly a thing when Dustin Hoffman was a young man?
Cultural-Answer-321@reddit
I see what you did there. Well played.
fjf1085@reddit
I just saw a paper about how microplastics are dramatically overestimated because of contamination from lab gloves so I wonder if this takes this into account.
lazrbeam@reddit
Yummy.
cool_side_of_pillow@reddit
Like dust. That all living organisms inhale and ingest.
Sober_Alcoholic_@reddit
What did they think was going to happen? Profits over everything.
I really hoped I’d be dead or dying by the time all this shit really got popping off.. yet here I am at 35. Here we are.
I’m tired.
Mutchie@reddit
Exact same here. Was really hoping for a semi-peaceful life but I guess that's just not in the cards
adamsoutofideas@reddit
The only way to reduce your body load of microplastics is through donating platelets, possibly plasma, too. Blood gets filtered in the process.
randyrando101@reddit
Could nano plastic eventually break up into even smaller plastics? And if so, would it still be as dangerous or would it become even more dangerous?
Butchtron3000@reddit
Yes and yes and yes
Butchtron3000@reddit
Shocker..... /s
spacestationkru@reddit
We are all plastic now.
BenCelotil@reddit
I'll laugh if this is how that plastic-eating fungus gets us into a Last Of Us situation.
Then I might cry.
But I'll definitely laugh first.
mushykindofbrick@reddit
good anakin, good
Top_Hair_8984@reddit
No shit... 🙄 That's what it does. Never disappears, here forever, just smaller and spreads easier.
cool_waterz@reddit
Most of that amount is lodged solidly in my personal gray matter. I can actually hear the faint squeaking and shifting of the plastic when I'm thinking about a particularly hard and convoluted problem.
You are welcome ☹️
BarbericEric@reddit
/s?
cool_waterz@reddit
Bloody hell, what do you think? If I don't joke about aspects of collapse I might as well just walk off the nearest roof..!
BarbericEric@reddit
SORRY IM AT WORK AND DIDNT FULLY UNDERSTAND NVM HAVE A GOOD DAY
omg I need a vacation 😮💨
cool_waterz@reddit
You sure do.
Have this polyvinyl chloride cocktail on me, huh? No hard feelings at all.
I promise, the little umbrella is recyclable.
🍸 🤸
BarbericEric@reddit
So your brain shouldn't be moving when you are thinking because it has no muscles for one. For two, degraded micro plastics don't make a sound l, and if you had so much plastic in you that it would make noise then that would mean you have a TUMOR sized ball of plastic in you.
So if you insist that what you are saying is true. Then I strongly recommend to go see a doctor because that is not normal.
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
I have rainbow coloured plastic jizz
cool_waterz@reddit
Ah, well; mine actually glows in the dark!
The effect seems to last for a while, as my very angry girlfriend keeps pointing out after some rather challenging days regarding the office rumour-mill... 🙀
kneejerk2022@reddit
My lymph nodes hurt reading this.
Akiira2@reddit
Life in plastic, it's fantastic
miggleb@reddit
Duh?
trickortreat89@reddit
Ahhh inflammation… my good old friend
StatementBot@reddit
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Portalrules123:
SS: Related to pollution and collapse as this recent study reveals that the oceans are almost certainly far more contaminated by plastic than scientists thought…although I’m guessing these results won’t come as too much of a surprise to fellow r/collapse users. For awhile now, estimates of microplastics in the ocean from collected samples appeared to show that there was a significant amount of “missing” plastic considering the amount of plastic we have produced and how much has ended up in the oceans. This study used newer technology to filter out anything larger than nanoplastics and found that the plastic wasn’t “missing” after all, it simply has broken down into these nanoplastics. The North Atlantic alone likely has 27 million tonnes of nanoplastics floating around. They have contaminated the water, are likely floating around in the atmosphere, and are probably accumulating in the bodies of most organisms on Earth. Expect the “plastocene” that we are now in to be a lasting impact on the geological record on the off chance any intelligent life discovers Earth after we are gone.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1s71w7h/scientists_have_discovered_that_the_oceans/od65qfq/
theotherquantumjim@reddit
Great
Sad-Measurement-7535@reddit
Surely someone will think of the kids? /s
leftoverhorse@reddit
TheArcticFox444@reddit
Lights Out! The sooner the better! We've done enough damage...
Portalrules123@reddit (OP)
SS: Related to pollution and collapse as this recent study reveals that the oceans are almost certainly far more contaminated by plastic than scientists thought…although I’m guessing these results won’t come as too much of a surprise to fellow r/collapse users. For awhile now, estimates of microplastics in the ocean from collected samples appeared to show that there was a significant amount of “missing” plastic considering the amount of plastic we have produced and how much has ended up in the oceans. This study used newer technology to filter out anything larger than nanoplastics and found that the plastic wasn’t “missing” after all, it simply has broken down into these nanoplastics. The North Atlantic alone likely has 27 million tonnes of nanoplastics floating around. They have contaminated the water, are likely floating around in the atmosphere, and are probably accumulating in the bodies of most organisms on Earth. Expect the “plastocene” that we are now in to be a lasting impact on the geological record on the off chance any intelligent life discovers Earth after we are gone.