The Iran War Could Collapse the United States in the Next Six Months

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dontrackonme@reddit

with a stroke of the auto pen trump can declare that ethanol for gasoline dilution is “woke” and there would be a large volume of corn available to feed livestock and make our favorite flavor of high fructose corn syrup. Our twinkie and candy diets will be maintained

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brainmydamage@reddit

The Epstein class doesn't care. When will you people get it?

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sns_2017@reddit

And they rule the world! That knowledge should be enough for a revolution everywhere.

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Funktownajin@reddit

I don’t really get why the author quotes a Nobel prize winning economist who is saying that it is the poorest countries that are going to be hit hardest with food shortages and then pivots to saying actually it is America is going to collapse. Then he uses the example of the Arab spring and food prices when those were all much, much poorer countries.

America produces a lot of food, and it has domestic sources of fertilizer of all types, including urea. Africa on the other hand is in huge trouble, most of their urea comes from the gulf states and many countries there are already food insecure. Food insecure people in America arent food insecure in the same way someone in Sudan is. I’ve lived in both places and that’s just absurd.

The article just isnt very well thought out. If food rises as much as he says in the next six months, 20% (very unlikely), America won’t collapse. People will still eat. Food banks will still exist. Rice and beans will still be affordable to practically anyone. The only thing I can see really collapsing America would be a civil war, sudden climate catastrophe or the grid plunging into darkness from cyber attacks or emp.

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MoonlitInstrumental@reddit

the breadbasket of the west coast is out of water. you probably read all the articles posted here about it this past week

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Funktownajin@reddit

A large amount of the stuff posted here is hyperbolic and substitutes for actual research and factual evidence, and I’ve been reading articles here since like 2010.

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SemperMementoMori@reddit

Oh grow up, even Fox News is talking about the almost non-existent snowpack and here you are being a denialist, goofball stuff https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/25/weather/west-snowpack-melt-heat-wave-climate

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Funktownajin@reddit

What am I denying?

Theres no water = textbook hyperbole. It’s literal hyperbole, do you know what that means?

California is well above average precipitation for 2026。look it up I’ve linked it below. I’ve lived here for 15 years. This isn’t a drought year at all compared to what I’ve seen. It’s way too hot and the lack of snowpack could lead to a bad fire season, but crops will have water to grow.

Nobody is starving this year because California has no water, stop spewing garbage. You can insult me personally but like I said most of the stuff here is hyperbole and comments like hours show how lacking people are in actual scientific knowedge and just read the media without understanding what’s actually at threat.

https://ggweather.com/seasonal_rain.htm

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SemperMementoMori@reddit

Take it easy, bud, it's only the end of the world.

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Don't come round here waving your facts around while we're enjoying ourselves.

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artisanrox@reddit

A large amount of the stuff posted here is hyperbolic and substitutes for actual research and factual evidence, and I’ve been reading articles here since like 2010.

Whelp.

This is exactly why the US will collapse. Thanks for posting Exhibit A.

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ItsEntirelyPosssible@reddit

Buddy. There aint no fucking water. We are in the worst drought of record in the high Rockies. Thats where southern California gets its water from. That's where a huge portion or American food comes from.

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Funktownajin@reddit

I don’t think you know what hyperbole is. It’s exaggeration.

There is no water - hyperbole

There is xxxx gallons of water, xx% of normal - not hyperbole.

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ItsEntirelyPosssible@reddit

Lol ok. Sure there is 1% of the water that typically comes down the river but everything is fine disphit.

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collapse-ModTeam@reddit

Rule 1: In addition to enforcing Reddit's content policy, we will also remove comments and content that is abusive or predatory in nature. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other.

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Funktownajin@reddit

There is 1%.

Yeah you’re less vulnerable which is lovely- your idiot in chief is trashing everyone else’s economy more than yours. So thanks for that.

If you think the rest of the world going down the toilet will not drag you with it tho? You aren’t very smart

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MyCuntSmellsLikeHam@reddit

OPEC is what makes the US dollar the global reserve currency. That’s the “petro-dollar. We make every country in the world trade in dollars with a gun to their head, and it controls the price oil globally. If that goes away so does our easy life and all of the US’s leverage for sanctions. We can’t just make it cheaper without ruining everything.

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Reluctant_Firestorm@reddit

US national debt per person is $114,000, and rising dramatically under Republican leadership. That system of debt-financing in the US cannot continue without the petro-dollar.

Japan, which as a similar per-capital debt burden, is very close to a debt crisis, where the country can no longer service its debt without severe austerity measures. The only reason we don't see these pressures yet in the US is the petro dollar and the global trade in US dollars.

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theycallmecliff@reddit

Petrodollar creates international demand for USD.

US consumer spending on manufactured imports creates the supply.

However, I think it's a mistake to underestimate that China and even the EU are dependent on export in a way that would make it difficult for them to step into the role currently occupied by the US.

Even if the petrodollar went away, these places would be looking for export markets for their goods.

They could encourage consumer debt the same way the US has for its citizens but then they would be no better off than the US as a buyer.

I would argue they would probably be worse off due to the cultural habituation unique to American consumer culture.

The ideological primacy of capitalism and individualism in the US populace are firmly rooted.

EU nations have a primarily ethnic basis for their identity. They're fairly capitalist but not to the extent that they view this as more a part of their national character than the historic, ethnic basis.

China has an ideological basis that is fairly incompatible with the required public attitude. This doesn't preclude their ability to get to a place where they can mobilize that attitude through propaganda, it just makes the job much harder than the culture the US has at its disposal.

And China would have a harder time dealing with the household debt. Belt and road structure could potentially create the framework. But unbearable levels of household debt are less easily absorbed by a one-party state because there is no internal other to point the finger at.

I think the Petrodollar is incredibly important and is certainly a huge factor in US actions right now. But I don't think the US is completely out of the game without it.

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stasi_a@reddit

How much does this administration pay you?

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We force them to pay in PD in exchange for security. How is that deal working out?

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RollinThundaga@reddit

The US produces enough oil to feed itself, hypithetically.

The reason so much is imported is because the US has the best refining infrastructure, and can process the trickier grades of oil that are produced abroad. Meanwhile it produces grades which are easier to process, and exports those grades to countries with less capable refining infrastructure, making use of comparative advantage.

Well no American would bother reading it if it said Africans are going to starve. Or for that matter anyone but Americans.

Because that’s all Americans care about

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Worried-Barnacle-306@reddit

I actually laughed when I read the title. Like, yeah, America will collapse, but what about other countries that aren't involved in this war? Countries with much LESS resources than the U.S.?

Gas and food prices have fucking soared where I live. Bus fares are insane. Our oil reserves are only good for a month or so. What will happen to us after that?

I know Americans didn't ask for this war. But neither did we.

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artisanrox@reddit

and then pivots to saying actually it is America is going to collapse.

Because an enormous percentage of the US population doesn't think anything is real but will get out every long gun in thier closet if they have to wear a medical mask or can't go eat at TGIFriday's.

Spolied, stupid, and completely unready to deal with what they've put in motion in 2024.

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BassoeG@reddit

America produces food, using oil-based fertilizers and oil-fueled equipment, and transports it to American cities hundreds of miles from the farms using oil-fueled trucks. An oil shortage is de facto a food shortage.

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Joe_Exotics_Jacket@reddit

Agreed. They even point out:

“…The International Monetary Fund found no significant effects on democratic institutions in wealthy nations when food prices spiked.¹⁸ That finding has been cited as reassurance. It shouldn’t be. It described a pattern of government behavior, not a geographical fact.”

So no rich democratic countries have fallen apart due to food prices in recent history, and the U.S. with its vast wealth and agricultural land will be first due to reasons?

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Agreed. All valid points in this article were undermined by a rush to sensationalism.

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Agreeable_Ocelot@reddit

It’s a classic upvote just for the title Reddit piece.

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nickiter@reddit

There's a reason the New York Times cooking section is obsessed with beans. Just gonna get even more obsessed.

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EastTyne1191@reddit

One issue of note is the lack of supportive infrastructure that is supposed to mitigate food and housing issues for people who are struggling. I work the public and see firsthand how much people are struggling. A family whose car doesn't work, with no ability to rent a car or walk because they live in a rural area. Had a kid who had only eaten a few crackers in the past two days. Another kid who routinely gives his sister his lunch and asks if I have any fruit or granola bars. Parents who are stressed and unable to make ends meet.

I've had to call shelters and food banks and they are even more underfunded and stretched thin.

And it's hard to get a read on the situation as a whole when the agencies responsible for gathering data and reporting it are gutted.

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dingalinglans@reddit

Isn't that what the Epstein class want? It was pretty much admitted to in the files.

Collapse everything, buy it all, establish technobro loservilles everywhere.

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Sharktopotopus_Prime@reddit

IMO, the working class should throw a wrench into their plans, rise up, and eat them first. Go after the source of the problems: the billionaires and hundred-millionaires who are pulling the strings. But that would require a lot of courage, organization, and bold action that so far, there doesn't seem to be widespread support for. Maybe full-on collapse and widespread suffering will open enough people's minds to some out-of-the-box thinking.

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springcypripedium@reddit

We saw signs of the working class rising up yesterday, with millions taking to the streets and planning the next level of action which is necessary for change.

Most of the protests that I saw were human centered. Some protests had a tiny nod to the environment (and I watched many, participated in one)---- but not enough.

We can't exist without healthy, diverse ecosystems. Tragically, environmental issues usually take a back seat when they should always be at the forefront of everything we do. And yes, I know, the billionaires couldn't care less about healthy ecosystems. They have ratcheted up raping and pillaging of the earth to levels that are mind blowing. Orange, demented, narcissist declared environmentalists as terrorists.

"Maybe full-on collapse and widespread suffering will open enough people's minds to some out-of-the-box thinking."

I might, just might believe that is possible IF we did not have 8.3 billion people on a planet whose biodiversity is collapsing and if we were not so damn anthropocentric.

Co2 levels were at 431.95 ppm yesterday (Mauna Loa Observatory, Hawaii (NOAA), up from 426.9 ppm last year.

A blue ocean event is imminent. It is a matter of when, not if. Some feel it is likely this summer/fall. A super El Niño is possible this year along with the potential of WW3 and the fact that Earth’s energy imbalance, the gap between heat absorbed and heat released, is the highest on record and the jet stream is broken.

These are monumental, existential crises and if they occur simultaneously could lead to survival instincts kicking in superseding time/energy for out of the box thinking (imo). If these things occur all at once and lead to full-on collapse I just don't see a way to recover. That time has passed---it passed a long, long time ago.

I hope I'm wrong.

I just want to add one more thing. I am not convinced (far from it!) that a critical mass of people are capable of thinking/behaving that is not anthropocentric. Anthropocentrism, I believe, is one of the key causes of the extinction event we are now immersed in----extinctions caused by humans. In the box thinking continues to be based on human exceptionalism. Can we get out of that box?

Humans are not immune to extinction. We need biodiversity to survive. How many people understand this?? How many people even know what biodiversity means? Or the importance of healthy ecosystems? Or even know where their water comes from or where their waste goes?

Good article on anthropocentrism and its consequences:

https://shunwaste.com/article/how-does-anthropocentrism-affect-the-environment

For those who don't know about a blue ocean event:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/the-blue-ocean-event-the-1-climate-tipping-point-no-one-is-prepared-for/ar-AA1SFlHF

For those who missed the recent report on earth's energy imbalance:

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/23032026/wmo-report-highlights-global-emergency/

Their wallets are not sensitive. They have clearly shown that they're willing to sink billions into metaverse and AI with no gain in sight to control the future.

Here's where they are sensitive - we always knew it. Sorry for the NYP article but it gets the point.

https://nypost.com/2026/03/29/us-news/five-guys-ceo-paid-1-5m-staff-bonus-so-he-wouldnt-get-shot-like-brian-thompson/

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Ragnarok314159@reddit

If everyone left META right now and stopped needed trinkets delivered via Amazon we would see a huge shift in a month.

democritusparadise@reddit

Naw the other Lenin.

Also, ahem, I was specifically referring to what he realised he needed to do to an entrenched, die-hard establishment who would literally fight civil war and invite foreign armies in, in order to stop being oppressed.

Not necessarily to the economic system that came later, and certainly not to the totalitarian nightmare than Stalin instituted. I actually reject Marxism-Leninism as a governing philosophy, even in a best-case scenario.

HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit

They may be too physically ill to do anything, except sit and watch it burn.

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simulation07@reddit

Son of a bitch - I’m in

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Specialist_Ant116@reddit

You think you can just do that, don't you? I don't think you understand that the system is so heavily tied, that your reaction will probably send society to the stone age.

How do you plan to stop the Federal Reserve financing wars? Asking the same for the european equivalent, because if the Fed goes down, everything goes down, right?

How you pull them all out of the system without causing a total collapse? Because total collapse is sure to guarantee to remove them from power, because there won't be "power" anymore, just the wild west.

See, I don't think you guys really comprehend how economy works or who's pulling the strings. War never changes, if it's not Trump, it's Obama, if it's not that guy, gonna be somebody else lmao.

To understand where to strike your Jekyll Island creature, you need to first figure out how many heads there are, cut them all and try not to fk the world up while doing so, as far as I'm concerned, you are aiming for the tail 🤣

And how are you gonna explain to the average Joe how complex is this system if you don't understand it yourself? Short answer is you don't, you will never get enough people to agree, people can't even agree whether they are a man or a woman, hell.

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ArrrrKnee@reddit

The thing is, people currently dont have the time to dedicate to such an organization. When you're barely making ends meet, every day is spent getting those ends to meet and recovering on your days off. Getting involved is a luxury of time.

But when prices go up and it becomes such that no matter the effort you still come up short, you're gonna see a lot of organization real quick.

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Seriously_Unoriginal@reddit

100% this. AND

The privileged in our society don't get that "this time it's different" for more reasons than (but not to exclude) social media, corrupt media and AI. One gigantic thing that a lot of men don't realize is that the way revolutions were won in the past had to do with the fact that men had to work outside the home and women did not. So, because women are generally badass and will literally die for a better future for their kids, they could shift priorities behind the scenes and help the cause. Well, we couldn't have that, and especially not if men were expected to buy the cow when they could clearly get the milk for free. So about 50-60 years ago, a bunch of guys said "Quiet Piggies, you can work too! You won, you've come a long way, baby!" And they slowly stuffed their pockets, consolidated wealth, paid people half as much and hid it with inflation, until the 1% became the .0000000001%, the middle class disappeared and there are, like, 80 people on the planet controlling the other 8 billion.

I got no answers, but I'm stockpiling essentials because I think the shits going to hit the fan this summer when the suppliers quit eating the costs of tariffs, transport costs increase 300%, they can't get the goods to transport, people are unemployed and desperate, mid fiscal year pricing contracts are renegotiated, and people have gone six months without health insurance...there's probably a new virus going around that doctors can't diagnose. Well, it's going to make Friday the 13th, 2020 look like the good ole days.

Love, your friend, Cassandra

We are talking 10s of millions of deaths, if not more in a modern day revolt. It's the total collapse of the United States. Do you know what happens in a power vacuum? The most violent and brutal make their way to the top and odds are of anything even makes it out the other side it will be a level of fascism you've never even dreamed of. Have you even actually studied the details of the French Revolution? The absolute terror and horrors that happened during it?

An American working class revolution is akin to glorified suicide.

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Sharktopotopus_Prime@reddit

You've really built this up in your mind to be an unsolvable problem, huh?

No human on this planet is irreplaceable, especially not terrible, inhumane leaders who's defining traits are their bottomless greed and insatiable lust for power. Making the class war go hot, en masse, around the planet, is one of the smartest things that billions of the working class could do. Such a move would have its challenges and growing pains, but on the other side of it is a world where billions of people can prosper, not just a few thousand lecherous parasites at the very top.

But it doesn't matter what your or my opinion on this is. The wealthy have already cultivated conditions on this planet that will ensure more and more regular people come to hate them, and turn on them. It's only a matter of time, at this point.

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ArmedWithBars@reddit

I'm sorry but I think our definitions of "challenges and growing pains" are completely different.

Might be because I work in supply chain management and I get to see how fragile the system is behind the curtain.

It's a pretty basic concept. Modern American society relies on fragile Just In Time supply chains to keep society afloat, owned and operated by the "billionaires/multi millionaires" that people want to eat. Without these intricate supply chains you wouldn't have massive cities and metropolitan areas.

Enjoy your road to utopian revolution in a complete technological blackout where you see your friends and family starve to death. If you are lucky you'll pass on before you have to live through the real horrors.

It's not the 1700s anymore, throwing a country into a revolution has far more ramifications in modern day. You are far too short sighted and can't see past "billionaires need to go". You aren't eating the rich, your are eating the foundation of modern society.

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Sharktopotopus_Prime@reddit

LMAO the billionaires are "the foundations of modern society" like any other parasite is "integral to the health of the organism it feeds off of".

You seem to think that when the rich are disposed of, humanity will just lose all leadership, and no one will assume the role they provide. We will. Humans are very adaptable, and we'll always find leaders among us. What we need now, are a far better class of leaders.

There will always be an upper class in human civilization. But the particular types of people that currently occupy that role are monsters. They go too far. They are unrestrained, and all they want is endless wealth and power, and no checks or balances on them. The view other wealthy people as the only real people, and the remaining 99% of humanity is nothing but chattel to be used by them. What we need is to replace those people and the role they fill with more temperate folk, who understand the phrase, "We have enough."

We need greater checks and balances on the upper class, and limits on personal wealth. Transgressors need to brutally punished, to dissuade this problem from becoming as widespread as it is today. We need to get rid of the obscenely wealthy, amoral parasites currently making up the upper class, and replace them with leaders who invest in and are stewards of the actual backbone of civilization: the working class.

This vision for humanity is unlikely, but any country that comes close to achieving it will have the strongest economic, social, and political foundation that humans can attain. The closest we currently have is the social democracy as practiced in the Nordic model of Scandinavia. And it's no coincidence that those countries are the happiest, most prosperous nations for regular people, year-after-year.

The upper class cannot be trusted to police themselves, and make all the rules. When they are allowed to do so, they always trend towards corruption, criminality, and abuse of power at the expense of the majority. Always. This is the lesson that our modern world has to teach us.

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ArmedWithBars@reddit

"They are leading us all to ruin".

Yes, so let's just cut out the middleman and throw us into a near instantaneous socioeconomical ruin.

So you even understand how a modern economy works? Do you grasp supply chains? Do you grasp the entire modern world is built upon the systems that the wealthy directly control?

What you think the local Chase bank is going to let you inside their branch to withdraw money after their top execs got dragged into the street and guillotined?

Oh yea I'm sure AWS is going to continue providing uninterrupted internet backbone services once their upper management got dragged out to line up and face a wall.

The realistic scenerio? A smaller percentage of the wealthy will get caught by the mob and killed. I'm sure that mob will be reasonable and orderly, making sure they only target specific individuals and don't start widespread chaos. After that comes a techno-dystopian fascist police state crashing in like you couldn't imagine. From their it will either be stomped out or the civil fabric of society will tear and take everything with it.

Your are a delusional idealist who hasn't read history further than a Wikipedia page. I implore you to read actual accounts of the French Revolution for a small glimpse into the future you want to conjure up.

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Sharktopotopus_Prime@reddit

Sounds like you can't even conceive of the world without Capitalism. The thing is, many of us long for it. We just want a system that works for everyone, not a fractional minority of ultra-rich sociopaths, at the top. This system has a fatal flaw that breeds inequality, poverty, and war. It's completely unsustainable.

I was gonna post something like this. We have all them profiled. We are being monitored constantly. The government another have all sorts of ways of infiltrating, misdirecting, you name it, to any sort of organization.

That doesn’t mean it don’t try, just that you can’t be naïve. And don’t forget, Epstein and so many others are dead.

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najapi@reddit

That’s what they want you to think, organisation has worked to drive every revolution that’s ever happened.

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TobiasWidower@reddit

I would argue the problem with the modern world pulling a French revolution is the fact of how decentralized everything is. If the citizens of California en masse go "fuck silicon Valley, fuck Zuckerberg and bezos eat the rich!" Then how fast do you wanna bet that east coast finance bros are gonna run to their uncles Hampton estates. Politicians you can go after one nation at a time, but the elite would just play "platinum refugee experience"

I can't explicitly say what I want to say on Reddit.

Let's just say that we could tip the balance of power away from the oligarchs and towards the people if second amendment rights were enacted in a strategic manner against elites in government and wealthy oligarchs. If we made a list with names and started picking key players off one by one, I'll bet things would start changing fast.

The US government no longer reflects the will of the people. Our government needs significant course correction. The oligarchs are not going to suddenly yield power gracefully. They are going to have to be persuaded in a forceful manner. They will not change course in response to peaceful protest.

Otherwise, the general enshittification continues. Wages remain stagnant while the cost of healthcare, housing and education increase. This has been going on for decades. They skim the profit off the top while we struggle on the bottom. This trend is ultimately unsustainable. There is going to be a tipping point.

I can never be sure anymore.

NGL I fucking hate Hamilton. It's maximally performative liberalism.

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curiouscreeture@reddit

That’s so fair. And as for Hamilton - I honestly couldn’t even finish it. I don’t get the hype at all

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MerryRain@reddit

Brother that document was written by a group of wealthy men who openly believed poor men's votes should never matter. They thought only rich folk could care about or understand the needs of the nation, so they rigged the system to ensure the "majority"'s vote had no meaningful power.

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miklayn@reddit

Yep. And they were wrong. They failed to understand the principles they laid out.

They are also dead, long gone, and I couldn't care less about what they intended in their time.

Exactly..but why is anyone the least bit surprised?….this has always been the plan.

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Fartknocker500@reddit

I would say most Americans didn’t choose this. Doesn’t really matter at this point, but we didn’t.

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didureaditv2@reddit

It was the responsibility of most Americans to not allow it get to this point and failed.

A very basic democratic responsibility to me informed and vote.

A quite simple responsibility that is about 2000 years old.

This lack of responsibility should not be pushed to the side as not a serious one.

Most Americans are in fact responsible.

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Fartknocker500@reddit

Ok, look. There are a lot of dumb people in this country, that’s plain enough to see. What isn’t so easy to see is that we’ve been going down this road for like the last 40 years….slowly but steadily.

Neoliberalism has been killing this country for decades, and other countries, too. It’s just easier to see our mess because it’s HUGE.

A lot of us have tried for a long time to push for change. Like, going to DC and talking to our elected representatives kind of pushing (just got off the plane from a week in DC doing just that on behalf of federal workers). It’s a mess, and it needs to stop. You’re right that it shouldn’t have gone this far and it’s likely going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

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HommeMusical@reddit

So why don't Americans ever complain to "your" party, the Democrats?

The Democrats are even more neoliberal than the out-and-out Fascist Republicans and have managed to screw the pooch in election after election.

I suggested to people I knew that we occupy the DNC after the catastrophe 2016 election, demanding answers. The abuse I got was huge. "This is exactly the wrong moment." But there was never going to be a right moment.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/learned-helplessness

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Fartknocker500@reddit

People like myself have complained about the Dems for well, a couple of decades now. Tried everything, but they are beholden to corporate greed/AIPAC, too. I also have the extra-added bonus of getting the crap beat out of me because I supported Bernie.

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HommeMusical@reddit

Agree very much. I was in your shoes for a long time, most of 32 years, but eventually, rather than become a US citizen, I returned to Europe - my UK passport was becoming dodgy because of Brexit.

Now I'm a Dutch citizen living in a little town in France. Luckily we made a soft landing here just as writing computer programs stopped being a viable career, particularly from an old guy.

I still feel guilt in leaving. None of my friends in the US feel that way about me, but I do. But I tell myself that 32 years is too long to be in an abusive relationship.

(Oh, and Bernie was the only US politician I actually loved. My affection for Obama didn't last more than a few weeks after Obama's election.)

We don't live too far from Paris - if you're ever in France, drop in to Rouen and we'll wine and dine you! (Or beer you, or whatever you favorite is.)

Very best wishes

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Fartknocker500@reddit

Don’t feel guilty, just happy you’ve escaped! We would do the same if it wasn’t for big responsibilities here, older parents who need us and would not do well picking up and leaving being the biggest one.

We have a daughter who married a Brit and is living in the UK and I am relieved that she is there. The UK has their own issues, but they don’t have an Orange Turd killing everything he touches (from human beings to our democracy) so I know she’s safe. The rest of us are here for whatever comes, and more and more it looks as if we’re in for a hell of a ride.

We have fought for decades and we’ll continue to fight against fascism and for basic human rights for all Americans, but especially for those who are marginalized. It’s a frightening time, but I decided a long time ago that talking the talk was one thing, walking the walk is another. We have to stand up for what’s right and decent. This country has a lot of work to do to be the place we can be proud of, and tbh I feel that now is the time to truly push for change. Not the fake “change” that politicians always run for office touting, but a grassroots movement of the people for the people. They’re tearing everything down, we will build it back only better than before.

Thank you for the kind invitation, maybe someday we’ll take you up on your offer. Who knows, maybe I’ll even have some stories to tell after this shitshow is over.

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HommeMusical@reddit

Thank you for the kind words. It's nice to wake up to another concerned person.

My parents sadly both died when I was quite young. My father joked that at least we wouldn't have to take care them in their old age (I continue to appreciate that he kept his sense of humor, at least sometimes). But it left me free.

I keep wanting to call them up in the afterlife. I particularly want to tell my Dad, "Hey, all that French you spent so much time teaching me? I still have it, and moving to France saved my ass!!!"

We are so rooting for you here. The French people have always had a great deal of warmth and respect for America, and even though that is very tarnished, they know that there are a lot of decent people hurting really badly.

(And on a practical note, if the US dollar collapses, then I won't get social security and I'm pretty fucked! :-o But I am confident that France won't let us starve.)

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pvdfan@reddit

We have been trying for over 30 years. Since Regan the Dems and Republicans have both moved widely right in unison at a fast rate. Clinton should have been a warning and Obama/Biden a red flag, but nope. All that matters to many voters is that their team wins and what the actual actions taken are ignored.

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HommeMusical@reddit

How often do you contact the DNC or your representative, demanding radical change, or even just change?

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pvdfan@reddit

Before COVID, weekly I would write at least one member of congress, state level office, or local level. In 15-ish years, exactly 4 gave a response that wasn't a glorified form letter written by the PR team. Some states have politicians that engage with the public more but not the ones I have had. It becomes a legitimate issue that in deep blue states, they know they can't lose once in office and in deep red states, they can't really do anything without the party votes. In turn, a lot (in all parties too) simply don't care once the campaign is over and until it's election time again in 2-6 years.

What happened in the 2016 Dems primary with the complete media blitz, on a local and national level, that Hillary had won months before the actual primaries took place due to Superdelegates pledging in mass to only voter for her turned off a lot of left voters. Hell, CNN was showing Hillary being up by over 600 delegates in the fall before the primaries and saying Bernie couldn't catch up due to "early losses" before vote one was cast. The message was clear that the DNC would never allow someone that wasn't a neoliberal to sniff the nomination and being okay with some basic civil rights was about the only bone they would throw us. 2020 and 2024 showed it wasn't a fluke either as neither Biden or Harris (don't even get me started on the 2024 disaster) would do anything to disrupt the free market system.

Obama gets praised as this leftist president and his "public benefit" monetary policies have been a complete disaster since day one. Obamacare was mandate to get PRIVATE insurance or having to pay a fucking tax penalty because you couldn't afford health care. After his term he defended it on Marc Maron's podcast as "we simply couldn't afford to lose the private industry jobs" when they should have became government jobs under single payer plan. His policy to completely nuke the affordable used car industry by destroying millions of working cars in the Cash for Clunkers bailout of the auto industry had zero plans to help low income Americans afford a car down the road. Locally cars with over 150,000 miles are routinely selling for 10k plus when in the past you could get them for 1000 or less. The bank bailouts did fuck all to help the average American and we are headed to the same housing crisis we had in 2008. Subprime loans started to become common again right before COVID (I remember getting an offer for one at 1.5%) and those same loans are now at over 7%. Florida was a key indicator of the collapse happening then and it's already starting now as Orlando is having a massive spike in mortgage defaults.

I can only speak for myself here, but all I want is a simple life where I can afford the basics while having a small vacation once or twice a year. I'm not asking for a 3000 foot McMansion in a $750 a month HOA, use DoorDash daily, or a 90k tricked out truck. It's completely out of reach with medical cost hitting me for over 18k a year after premiums and deducible (and that still doesn't cover everything) and car/living place insurance/taxes hitting 5k a year.

It's not a helplessness issue, the common American has been completely abandoned. Trump won the rural white vote because what he said was right, rural Americans were told to go fuck themselves by both political parties since the 80s (thanks NAFTA and deregulation). He didn't do a fucking thing to help either, in fact he made it much worse in term one, but he was the first candidate to really make that his rallying call. The DNC has made it very clear they will not help either and frankly don't care about the non-urban vote. Places that used to be nearly 80% Dems are now MAGA strongholds. I should know, I live in one where the every elected office was a Dem in the 90s and now it is straight republican.

Sorry for the long rant or if I came across in any way upset at your question. I've just watched entire parts of the country go from nice blue collar areas with almost zero homeless around to full welfare towns in a matter of 30 years. The jobs aren't coming back and AI is taking what few white collar jobs were left away. I don't have the solution but what we are doing right now is going to kill a lot of people if prices in general go much higher.

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HommeMusical@reddit

Aw, man, my heart fscking breaks, and now I feel really bad for being mean.

If even 10% of Americans were like you, the world would be a very very different place.

My hat is off to you.

Sorry for the delay there, I wanted to read it in detail, and yes, I agree with every word. Clinton's embrace of neoliberalism lead not only to NAFTA but also the "reform" of the social safety net, and the metastasis of the incarceration state with the Three Strikes You're Out laws. The D's hit from the "left" - really the center right - and then the Rs slam you from the far right.

The DNC has made it very clear they will not help either and frankly don't care about the non-urban vote.

Bang on. I used to say that HRC's decision to ignore the midwestern states that lost her the election to repeatedly canvass California in order to win the utterly meaningless popular vote (which she did win), together with the "basket of deplorables" quip was the greatest unforced error in US political history. Used to, until 2024.

ll I want is a simple life where I can afford the basics while having a small vacation once or twice a year. I'm not asking for a 3000 foot McMansion in a $750 a month HOA, use DoorDash daily, or a 90k tricked out truck. It's completely out of reach with medical cost hitting me for over 18k a year after premiums and deducible (and that still doesn't cover everything) and car/living place insurance/taxes hitting 5k a year.

This is just heartbreaking.

And this is you and so many other people.

People just want A Life, nothing fancy. All most people want is to do regular, not very expensive things and stop worrying about money.

There was a very prosperous period in America starting with FDR and continuing until Reagan ended it where a lot of people could have these things, and people with non-heteronormative sexuality or non-European backgrounds made great strides, and the country started dealing with environment issues.

Dust in the wind.

To think that I could have removed one of these causes with a little planning with a window of a decade or more, when I lived in New York City in the 80s and 90s, and security was non-existent! Conceivably I'd have gotten away with it. But I would never have done it, even had I "known", because how can you know?

I hope things somehow improve. If you ever have some big cause, hit me up, or if you are ever in France, we're not far from Paris, we'll wine and dine you. (How we got here is a story in itself.)

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pvdfan@reddit

Thank you for the kind words. This subreddit really has a civil and thoughtful population that weirdly gives me hope for humanity.

You mentioned the Midwest specifically and you are dead on. I had forgotten about the deplorables line and it really did serious damage in rural areas. Among people I knew growing up, 2016 lead to a large shift from voting for who they thought was the best to Republican only until they die. Biden's large investment to fix the nations crumbling infrastructure was a great first step in repairing the damage but it wasn't nearly enough to stop Trump in 2024. The damage could be repaired with 8-12 years of the Dems making large scale investments in rural areas but I'm not sure I see a pathway to having control that long.

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We're all Cassandra.

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dingalinglans@reddit

Hopefully it means that political education is improved then. That's my hope in all of this, that this is enough of a shock to every single tax paying individual, no matter where you are in the world, to stop voting against your fellow mans interests.

We're here because of greed and spite. And it's high time we all changed xxx

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AngusScrimm---------@reddit

Greed came out to play in a very big way with the election of Reagan.

Ronald Reagan: The Father of Shithole America

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RegionSilent9204@reddit

Last election a third of the country failed to vote against a fascist. A majority chose this willingly or by way of apathy.

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There's no insult tho?

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Minister_Garbitsch@reddit

As an American, or as I like to say a Californian, I 100% agree with every word.

If I could move outside the country I would. Currently working on Canadian birthright citizenship, my mother was from Quebec. Trying to get copies of her birth certificate, etc. Sadly, my parents were terrible with keeping records.

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Living-Excuse1370@reddit

I agree. I also want the International Community especially Europe to actually publicly condemn the USA and Israel and impose sanctions. If any other fucking country was doing what they're doing the outcry would be huge.

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HommeMusical@reddit

I also want the International Community especially Europe to actually publicly condemn the USA and Israel and impose sanctions.

I fled the United States almost ten years ago because it seemed like the US wasn't doing anything to help itself. And it still isn't.

Now you want us to fix your messes. You want us to be the punching bag for your psychopathic dictator.

It isn't going to happen. Our leaders are wisely refusing direct conflict with the US while they set up an alternative system.

To be blunt, even Democrats were pretty contemptuous of the European system. Note how, for example, Obama refused to allow any consideration of how Europe did healthcare in the run-up to the limp and useless ACA.

And you passed a law, voted for by members of both parties, and never challenged, that allows you to invade Europe if we ever try to hold you accountable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act

Oh, and the UN is in serious financial difficulty, because "some of" their members are behind on their dues, most notably the USA.

So it isn't happening. Fix your own messes.

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Purplealegria@reddit

We didn't choose this and we do not deserve this…They stole the elections…both 2016 and 2024.

The truth will come out one day.

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HommeMusical@reddit

It depends on what you mean by "stolen".

Republicans have obsessively been using voter suppression for over three decades. Even though this has been brought to the Democrats' attention for over three decades, by people like Greg Palast (https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/).

Scholars who study voter suppression claim that without it, no Republican would have won in decades: https://cmarmitage.substack.com/p/the-long-coup-how-23-states-are-killing

For some reason the DNC has refused to act on this.

That said, in 2016, there's little if any evidence at all that votes were stolen or switched. HRC was the second least popular Presidential candidate since poll started; the most unpopular was Trump.

I used to think the 2016 election was the greatest unforced error in political history. But then came 2024.

The DNC covered up Biden's incapacity until it was far too late. But they had nominated a VP, not based on their electability or popularity, but based on their demographic. They even announced ahead of time that they were only considering women of color for the VP ticket, which as a far-left person enraged me, because it meant there was no possible way for me to claim that this VP candidate was chosen primarily on their own merits.

Harris had never won an election when she was pushed into the campaign. And she ran a mediocre campaign, as usual trying to appeal to the imaginary moderate Republican voter.

The fact that she came close to winning, and (I believe) there were a lot of stolen votes too, is no tribute to the DNC or Harris, but to how detested Donald Trump was.

Personally, I would go beyond "showing the Fascists no mercy and prosecute them to complete destruction." I believe in scorched earth. Read "scorched earth" as you will.

I agree with HollywoodAndTerds "and fully with my whole heart, fuck the Midwest." And add that it's not just the Midwest, it's the south AND pockets of MAGA in my own state of NY who voted for this.

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AngusScrimm---------@reddit

It's the old goddamn Confederacy. A large swath of the Midwest is the state of Illinois from 50 miles south of Chicago, through another 350 miles to Cairo Illinois. The Chicago area vote overwhelms the red neck portion of the state every single election. There are plenty of politicians down there who call for southern Illinois to become its own state--free of the Chicago area. If that ever happens, they'll be admitted to the Union as a slave state.

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HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit

Is Illinois as divided as NY Is? NY is divided by the Upstate/Downstate jargon. I am not surprised though.

This got me thinking about the movie ‘Zone of Interest’, which is very well done in depicting the cognitive dissonance and moral suppression of perpetrators living next to a camp.

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HousesRoadsAvenues@reddit

Fantastic film. Watch it with the documentary "The Commandant's Shadow."

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Sarcastic-Potato@reddit

You also have to realize how powerful propaganda is. Watch an interview with Israeli settlers on how they talk about Palestinians, they don't even see them as human. Same with the Rohingya genocide in Myanmar. And it was similar back in nazi Germany. The people simply cared less what happened to Jews, Roma,.. Etc because they saw them as lesser, because that's what they have been taught.

And then some people were hardcore nazis, and those were the ones responsible for the death camps, they enjoyed doing that shit. Hell there was that one wife of an SS officer who made lamp shades out of the skin of inmates

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purple_sun_@reddit

My god. I despair at the worst of humanity. I truly hope the brave outweigh the cruel

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Few_Ad6516@reddit

The great depression was Hitler's greatest ally, plus the way German society was structure obstructed the vast majority of men from higher education and well paying jobs. In the absence of work, millions of young men were disenfranchised and happily signed up to the SA, know for well that it was an organization of thugs that promoted violence against political opponents and minorities.

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hitthelow@reddit

The other thing was - the final solution plan, camps, & SS etc aside - Hitler made Germany a much more pleasant place to live for the average resident compared to what happened under Weimar in the 20’s with hyperinflation (which ironically Hitler was still part of as #2 to Hindenburg) - the economy and production became stronger which was really just for the war effort - but people were able to own things again, even including cars for the more wealthy - Hitler had a lot of public support even through the initial period of WW2 (I did this period as a chosen subject in HS)

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jonathanfv@reddit

It's not only about the war tho. It's everything that have been preceding it for decades. Your country's rich have been cannibalizing it for ever. Some of your states have (or had, the numbers are probably dated now) an average IQ of like 89. That's shameful for the richest country of Earth to not have made sure everyone had everything they needed in order to access and benefit from a proper education. Even the fact that the war in Iraq still had a high approval rating says a lot on how dumb the American public is. And I know it's not their fault. It's a mix of indoctrination, and conditions created on purpose to create domestic consent for the Anerican empire. Most of you guys never figured out why some people in other countries dislike or even hate the US. How many of you questioned basic things, like why you're asked to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools? When Trump ran for a 2nd time and people everywhere were worried about Project 2025, how many of you even knew about it? How many of you knew how close to fascism your country already was way before Trump? You had constant red scares, capitalist propaganda, ugly ass suburbs designed to exclude those who can't drive or imprison them inside, which by the way were started with the racist intentions to keep "inner city people out". You supported most of the world's dictatorships, you sided with fascists over and over again. All over the place, you had police forces that racially profiled people and occasionally shot them in the back. Your Republicans were clearly a lot more evil than the Democrats, but when it came down to it, the Democratic establishment sided with genociders.

So now you have a fully fascist regime - finally. The speed at which they're messing everything up is astounding, even for me, but it makes sense: they have no choice but to speedrun the fascism before they lose power. It's the only way they can maintain their power. Except that they won't, because fascists are insane, and these specific fascists are both insane and imbeciles, so they're speedrun the shit but self-destruct in the process. Of course most Americans aren't on board with that. But most of them didn't see it coming. The biggest crime of America wasn't that most people were pro-fascism (that's about 30% of people, and by the way, you might have wanted to do something about it a long time ago), it was that most people were uneducated and stupid. I almost wrote lazy as well, but I don't think that's the case, because they're being exploited and living from paycheck to paycheck, so I understand that they don't have time to do much better. But still! You're exploited, living from paycheck to paycheck, yet you tie yourself down more and more in that system of exploitation and don't try to figure out a way out of it? As a population, that makes you either idiots or cowards. Rest of the world is probably not much better, and a lot of us probably just got off easy because our governments still let us have time for ourselves. But not all of us. Personally, when I saw the boring, servile future I would have if I stayed where I was and did what I was expected to, I decided to bounce and test my chance. At least by myself some time before I get swallowed by the system. So I took a backpack, ditched everything, and became homeless until I found my way towards a future I found more interesting. And I'm down to do it again. I stole food when I needed. I survived sleeping outside at -20 without any winter gear. It was worth it. I know not everyone is able to do that, but it pisses me off to see an entire population of pushovers getting destroyed by the fascism they pushed abroad for decades, saying that they don't want the fascism now that it impacts them negatively, after having benefitted from a world order that was fascistic and ecologically devastating for so long. I know I probably sound pissed. I am pissed. And I'm also pissed at my own country. I don't even hate Americans. But I'm down with the cuddling, it's stupid. Lots of you guys don't deserve what's coming your way, but you also should've known better and for a long time.

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starman-jack-43@reddit

I think the problem is less that the majority of Americans support Trump and more that its a split who see Trump less as a president and more as a Messiah, and a whole bunch of other people who seem to think that everything's still somewhat normal and that they're just got to hold on for another couple of years before the political norms reassert themselves.

Problem is, things ain't going back to normal. Trump's presidency has been an apocalypse in its literal sense - an unveiling of what's going on behind the scenes. A country can't ignore its own laws and expect those laws yo hold any weight in the future. A country can't make noises about invading allies and then expect to be trusted. If you go around bombing schools and hospitals, that's at least two generations of relatives who hate your guts with a passion.

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HommeMusical@reddit

Do people outside not know about the election fraud?

Yes, we've known about it for over thirty years now. Neither of your parties has been at all interested in fixing it.

We thought you just liked it that way.

https://www.gregpalast.com/

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calico134@reddit

Both political parties are bought and owned by the billionaires. They benefit from things being this way.

Someone marry me bc I had nothing to do with this shit

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The problem is, like a drowning person, we will grab hold of everyone we possibly can and drown them in an effort to save ourselves.

In a true dystopian, 'them or us world', the US would simply take whatever it wants from other countries. Just out of convenience, it would start with Canada and Mexico and then any other country that had something we needed would be on the table except China and Russia which would likely be doing the same thing around their countries. What country is going to fight back when its two or three largest cities are effectively... 'de-populated' through the use of chemical or biological weapons we certainly don't have? I mean... yeah... they may have lost like 5 million people but depending on the country, they could have 10's to 100's of millions more who they may not want to lose.

Oh, the 21st century will firmly belong to China, now. Trump and his MAGA cronies have ensured that. Russia is too weak to make any major moves for the next decade, or more. They have exhausted their military strength in Ukraine, and their economy is on fumes. The US looks to be making the exact same mistake in Iran, destroying itself in an inconsequential, unnecessary war.

I’m just saying this because corn in a notoriously heavy feeder on nitrogen but the article conflates it somewhat with wheat, which requires about half the nitrogen, can still set seed (what we eat) with limited nitrogen (though yield and protein content would be greatly reduced), and which is almost entirely used for human consumption. We currently export 50% or more of our annual wheat crop, so the downstream effects would likely include a reduced crop plus a higher domestic market, meaning more starvation around the world.

And of course, all of the above messes up the economy in big ways, which is a massive problem. The U.S. can likely transition to be pretty self-sufficient in terms of basic calories though.

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SignificantWear1310@reddit

Yes this!

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trickortreat89@reddit

So be it. I know it sounds hard, but whatever it takes which can also cancel all plans to become the dominant oil producer of the world is good for us all in the long run.

Maybe we need to suffer now to be able to take the green transition more serious.

If we can finally get rid of fossil fuels once and for all we can stop the number one threat to human civilization - global warming. If we can stop all being dependent on global trade for our basic infrastructure and foo supplies, it can start looking hopeful for once.

If we can then keep production of virgin resources within the planetary limits it can even start looking GOOD for once.

There's also "Catabolic Collapse", where a complex system can't maintain the energy requirements to sustain itself, and it begins the process of self cannibalism.

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pippopozzato@reddit

Welcome to r/collapse .

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pinkfloyd078@reddit

The link to the merch shop and bumper sticker website in the “what to do about it” section killed me lol. Instagram infographic merch site influencer apocalypse

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bloominggoldenrod@reddit

Here’s a revolutionary process that is being used in Vermont to create nitrogen rich fertilizer for local farms. This should be in every state.

https://richearthinstitute.org/

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TurkeySammich42@reddit

Says the obvious shill account with his history hidden. Pass. Get new hobbies.

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21plankton@reddit

So in the fall when the crops come in there will be less crops. More inflation. No telling when the market crashes how many folks will have been laid off by then. I doubt Donny and Pete went to war to lose it but I suspect they will, based on their performance so far.

The sub-stack article only focuses on food for the poor. I attended a couple of meetings at Second Harvest. As a result of the reduction of SNAP benefits the demand for charitable food has increased by 40% and donations have also increased as a result of a new CA law requiring recycling of good extra and waste food and from other sources that previously would have gone to landfills.

At what point will people stop saying it is wrong? I think it is about 80% fulfilled now, and still the naysayers are at it, talking about how world war is impossible...

Agreed. The idea that the US is the glue that holds the world together is now antiquated and clearly disproven by facts, and not only recent events, even though they play a big part of it.

If anything, the US has been showed to be a bully that has always taken advantage of their position while doing everything to maintain the status quo.

I'd gi as far as to say we migh see a better world, in some aspects at least, without the US shadow hegemony.

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tropical58@reddit

No military works for no pay. You clearly are not getting it. The US is broke. Like unbelievably stupendously broke.

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Cum_Quat@reddit

I'm terrified the orange child rapist will drop nukes on Iran to "win" the war

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outofshell@reddit

Sweating up here in Canada watching our militaristic neighbour losing its mind 😬

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Omar_DmX@reddit

There we go America. A humiliating defeat and total collapse or a technobro fascist oligarchy. Your choice. You voted for this.

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LeninsMommy@reddit

Please 🙏

Here is a metaphor to help illustrate the situation.

The ship had holes in it. They fired the maintenance crew. The lifeboats were then lit on fire. And then they drove into an iceberg. At full throttle.

"Every single one of those numbers gets worse when grocery bills go up 15 percent. The family that was barely making rent stops making rent. The person carrying medical debt on a credit card to buy groceries now has less credit and higher prices. The underemployed worker who needed full-time work faces a labor market contracting under inflationary pressure. The crises don’t sit beside each other. They feed each other, all at once, with the same shock driving all of them simultaneously."

Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1s6nv6o/the_iran_war_could_collapse_the_united_states_in/od39k7e/