Carpentry Question? | TheaterFire

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_Nefarium@reddit

I'm not a chippy but do a fair bit of DIY and boat building. Ive generally found that most things are supplied in metric - however are actually in imperial rounding.

For example I was recently after some marine ply which I could pick up in 1828mm x 1219mm sheets.. suspiciously 6' x 4' that is.

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Wiles_@reddit

electronics engineer everything is done in millimetres until you get to component sizing

Confusingly, there are both metric and imperial 0603 and 0402 sizes.

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_Nefarium@reddit

I've done exactly the same, I wasn't aware of the existence of both before that frustrating moment.

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Absolutely haha, myself doubly so and in all the wrong ways - I'm happiest in metric, but if pushed will do use a bastardised imperial of 10's, 100'ths and thous of an inch, non of this 3&9/16ths fuckery.

Due to a childhood oddity I understand speed in km/h and just auto convert the road signs when I see them but can only distance in miles.

Weight is purely kg's (wtf is an ounce 🇫🇷🇫🇷🥖🥖) but pints reign supreme.

Again. . the system is that there is non. And it works wonderfully

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Mysterious-Fortune-6@reddit

Not sure what the tricolours and baguettes indicate but the French still recognise and refer to pounds, pints and (much less commonly) inches albeit they are now rounded to SI (500ml pints).

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_Nefarium@reddit

I spent a bit of early childhood in France, but was unsure of accuracy. It was mostly aimed as a joke in regards to overzealous Americans.

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90210fred@reddit

Similar, except... thou, yea, thats OK, but any other "less than an inch" should be a fraction: people who convert 7/8 to decimal are evil

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622114@reddit

I am a Canadian jumping in. When I worked with a bunch of British carpenters I asked the same question I was told they use 2x4x8 etc sizing for dimensional limber and 4x8 for plywood but the thickness is in mm.

“Construction is in feet and inches but finishing work is in cm, mm and meters” This is according to “tom the chippy”

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MayDuppname@reddit

Also, in the UK -

Human weight is in stones, pounds and ounces. Food weight is in grams and kilograms. Fuel is in litres, but we still use MPG as the measurement for fuel consumption.

Human height is feet and inches, height of objects can be given in either imperial or metric, length and speed is measured in miles and yards on the roads, yet we run 5k or 100m.

We've been brought up using both. It's only an issue when your metric tool won't fit an old imperial bolt, or you forget the conversion and don't have duckduckgo to do the maths.

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622114@reddit

Same here but we also do distance in time.”hey how far from Vancouver to Calgary?” 8 hours

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fezzuk@reddit

Same for London, funny think is regardless of where you are going the answer is always "ehh about an hour 40"

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Albannach02@reddit

Usual in rural areas in Scotland. Why use miles (or even kilometres) if the roadworks, weather, queueing and other factors are rhen ignored?

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illarionds@reddit

Not stones for human weight any more.

I'm nearly 50 and I've never known my weight in stone, or even known the conversions.

And my daughters certainly don't.

For older people, sure.

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finance-matt@reddit

Not true everywhere. I’m 44 and use stones. So does everyone else I know around my age.

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Ok_Win_2592@reddit

I use kg and am in my mid 60s. Was surprised to hear my DiL (mid 30s) talk about her weight in stones yesterday.

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BigComfortable6779@reddit

Same here, 67, and only use kg for weight. But I went full metric after decimalisation when I was at school.

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Sea_Confection6488@reddit

Same, I've only ever known stones

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Mysterious-Fortune-6@reddit

A trend then but no clear age related cut off which is what you'd expect. Might be a bit weird if it was everyone aged over 47 3/4.

For my part (late 40s) I am reasonably comfortable flipping between both but tend to favour imperial 60/40.

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Infamous-Sherbert-32@reddit

In my case, I’m 70 and can use both, but I can visualise better in Imperial measurements, particularly for things like baking. 4 (oz) butter, 4 sugar, 4 flour and 2 eggs as a basic sponge cake recipe is ingrained in my brain. I can just about manage metric for cooking, but never cups! Sorry - a bit removed from carpentry, but still measurement, and I’m much more likely to do a spot of baking than knock up a set of shelves.

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illarionds@reddit

Funnily enough, I'm the reverse. I can handle imperial fine for DIY and dressmaking, and indeed sometimes find myself measuring in inches out of habit.

But I cannot cook in imperial or US. I have no idea how much an ounce of anything is, and I don't own any cup measures.

If I'm looking for a recipe, I'll always add "metric" to the search to minimise the amount of those that show up.

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illarionds@reddit

Sure, it was a data point, not meant to be a blanket statement.

I know plenty of people my age who do use stones.

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Leading_Study_876@reddit

I'm Scottish, nearly 70. Used to use stone for my weight years ago, but now my scales are always set to kilos.

I don't even know what my weight in stone is now. Just that it's certainly more than I'd like.

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MillyMcMophead@reddit

I'm in my sixties and always use kilos, I haven't a clue what I weigh in stones. I also use metric to measure my height but I do know what it equates to in feet - I've shrunk a bit from when I was in my twenties!

I learned both metric and imperial at school but have ditched imperial because metric is so much better and easier. Having said that I'd still call a piece of timber a 4x2.

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MayDuppname@reddit

I'm also late 40s, the only place I use anything other than stones and pounds is when I'm flying - the aircraft weight limits are given in pounds.

Helpfully, our scales at our gliding club read in kilos, so we all have to do the conversion every time we fly.

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_Pencilfish@reddit

huh, what gliders are you flying? All the ones I've flown in in the UK have weight limits given in kg.

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MayDuppname@reddit

K13s and Ka6 in my case. The placard weights are given in pounds.

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_Pencilfish@reddit

Oh strange, our K13 has a placard in kg. Perhaps it was originally sold to somewhere in europe...

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m1bnk@reddit

I'm 56 and still use stones, and feet for height, but when talking to health professionals it's all metric now.

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Snoo3763@reddit

Same age and I can only do human weight in stones, might be regional / cultural.

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Ctrl_daltdelete@reddit

Mid thirties and always use stones for my weight. If I hear a human weight in kilos I have to multiply by 2.2, divide by 14 then multiply everything after the decimal point by 14 to get the correct stones and lbs.

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illarionds@reddit

Yeah, seems it varies widely, both regionally and with class and education.

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SaltyName8341@reddit

I'm 47 and use both and can work on the approximation of 2lbs is about a kg.

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OddPerspective9833@reddit

Human weight is in stones, pounds and ounces. Maybe if you're over 40

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Leading_Study_876@reddit

Oddly, even those of us who use kg for our weight still very often use feet and inches for height.

I only know my weight in metric and my height in Imperial. My wife is the same and I think this is very common.

Possibly because after the age of 18 (younger for females) height tends to stay pretty constant, so we don't bother measuring it, I suppose.

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AshaNyx@reddit

Women. Female is an adjective not a noun.

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Leading_Study_876@reddit

Incorrect.

Some many find it irritating for some reason, but it's an absolutely standard dictionary definition. And, of course, "males" is used in exactly the same way. It's basically an abbreviation of "females of the species".

From Merriam-Webster:

female

noun

a: a female person : a woman or a girl

b: an individual of the sex that is typically capable of bearing young or producing eggs

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/female

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AshaNyx@reddit

Most people ik tend to use height in inches rather than metres or centermetres, pretty much no one ik would refer to someone who's about 5ft as 1.5m

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Leading_Study_876@reddit

Incorrect.

Some many find it irritating for some reason, but it's an absolutely standard dictionary definition. And, of course, "males" is used in exactly the same way. It's basically an abbreviation of "females of the species".

From Merriam-Webster:

female

noun

a: a female person : a woman or a girl

b: an individual of the sex that is typically capable of bearing young or producing eggs

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/female

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Jazzlike_Custard8646@reddit

Im 28, this is how I use measurements

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Snoo3763@reddit

Another prime example, pints of lager, ml of wine or spirits.

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TheShakyHandsMan@reddit

I got given a set of imperial Allen keys.

Nice novelty but completely useless

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illarionds@reddit

? I've always just had a set of each. You do come across imperial ones still, albeit rarely.

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swingwolfe@reddit

Yep rough measurements are imperial (ply being 2440x1220 as opposed to plasterboard being 2400x1200) , and timber is roughly the imperial size, but for accurate measurements we use metric

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TheShakyHandsMan@reddit

The sheets come in 8x4 sizes but they’ll say 2440x1220 on the label

My whole job is creating products that are imperial sized but using metric materials.

305mm to a foot is the key number

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GingerWindsorSoup@reddit

Did they also send you for a tin of tartan paint?

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Tennonboy@reddit

UK, been a joiner for 48 years now retired. When I started my apprenticeship 4 x 2(never 2 x4) was actually 4" x 2". It's now become 46mm x 96mm but through habit and tradition we still call it 4 x 2, same for all other sections of timber, sheets of ply, mdf etc are 8 x 4 which are actually 2.44 m x 1.22 m, an 8 x 4 sheet of plasterboard is 2.4 m x 1.2 while all thicknesses are metric but called by there metric equivalent

Basically old habits die hard with a vengeance

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Apprehensive_Shame98@reddit

Of course, in North America a 2 x 4 is not 2" x 4". More like 1.5" x 3.5". In an older building (50+) with work done 30-40 years ago, you can actually trace the shrinkage from 2", to the 1.75" milling standard of the 80s, to today.

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Tennonboy@reddit

Same everywhere timber is sourced on a global market to common sizes and sections. All limited by transportation costs.

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front-wipers-unite@reddit

Occasionally you do encounter Ply and OSB which is 2400 X 1200. Not often but it is out there.

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Tennonboy@reddit

You can get larger jumbo sheets also 10 x 5 are reasonably easy to order but 10 x 6'-6" are also available in certain thicknesses or I should say metric equivalents fir ordering purposes. But I've never come across metric sized ply or osb but if there's a need in enough quantities no doubt some manufacturers would be willing to supply

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front-wipers-unite@reddit

I had some metric OSB on site the other day, left behind by a builder who got the tin tack. And I also used to work for a maintenance firm, Saint Gobain were our biggest client, and the Brighton Portslade branch of Jewsons stocked metric Ply. The only time I've seen it. But I know it exists.

I do a few bits and bobs for an Aussie bloke, and if he has an oversized opening which needs a door, rather than reduce the opening he'll supply some PAR and a 7'x3' fire blank. And I hate him for it.

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Tennonboy@reddit

Can't count the number of 7 x 3 fire door blanks I've used, but only ever used an 8 x 4 fire door blank, once was enough. Took 3 of use to carry up 3 flights of a fire escape 🤣🤣🤣🤣

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front-wipers-unite@reddit

Yeah I did a job making some fire doors for an old country house which was the offices of a chain of garden centres, and they need to be FD60s and they had to be individually sized and shaped to each existing door frame. Never again.

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Tennonboy@reddit

We used to use because the light weights are solid hardwood not chip board as standard doors ( Not as fd's) just because they were solid in UK chemical factory where people tended to open doors with soles of safety boots. Our local howdens used to keep a stock in for us because they had to once pull nine in from local branches and all nine were either bowed or twisted .......

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front-wipers-unite@reddit

Urgh. During COVID were you unfortunate enough to get one of those MDF faced flush doors? I had a couple of external ply flushes to do for dominos and I was told because of supply chain issues there were no ply flushes available and that was the new standard. I wasn't convinced that they'd stand the test of time but it's been six years, I still work for the particular franchise and I've not had a call back reference those doors. Nor have I seen another MDF faced flush door.

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Tennonboy@reddit

No fortunately Not, we were mainly shut down. Just me and father & son team working, I was basically pricing & quoting for work - although no competition costs going sky high. We concentrated on personal screens keeping contractors away from shift personnel. Plus some emergency safety works

To say the three of us made good money out of it was an understatement. Wasn't happy when everyone returned to normal working

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front-wipers-unite@reddit

Ha. Yeah I had my maintenance thing going on with dominos, the whole pandemic didn't really affect business with them. I also did loads of fire stopping works with Berkeley homes. Pulling down ceilings then letting the other teams do their thing, then re boarding. It was boring, it paid well and it was such easy work.

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Mondaycomestoosoon@reddit

We use timber

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Illustrious_Sea7480@reddit

“Do y'all use imperial or metric with lumber sizes”

Yes.

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Bunister@reddit

"Can you get me 3 metres of 2x4" would be a perfectly normal thing for a Brit to say.

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SparkyCorkers@reddit

4 by 2 would be more normal for a British chippy

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Bunister@reddit

Definitely "2 be 4" down here in the Westcountry

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SparkyCorkers@reddit

My Dad would be more like '4 brr 2' in Dorset accent

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TheWinterKing@reddit

I can still hear my grandad saying “two b’four”

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AfraidOstrich9539@reddit

We say that up here in Scotland too...at least some areas

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ot1smile@reddit

Seems to be regional. I’ve heard both depending on where I happen to be at the time.

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Particular-Swim-9293@reddit

Yes, we all do.

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Fanny_Flapps@reddit

Except lumber is wot fat blokes do

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Inevitable_Greed@reddit

How are you Americans so fucking stupid?

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AshaNyx@reddit

It's Britian. We use imperial and metric based on how we are feeling. Normally if you want something rough like body weight or road distance you stick to imperial, if you want something more precise like baking weights or an objects size we use metric.

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Coolnamesarehard@reddit

A story from the era of the piecemeal transition to metric in the UK. This physics professor asked for his big experiment to be on the ground floor in our new building to avoid vibration. He also asked for a pit in the floor for ease of servicing of vacuum pumps on the underside. The project manager put him in direct touch with the builder so there would be no miscommunication. Chatting with the guy, thinking about room layout, he decided to keep it simple, and asked for the pit dead center of the room, 5 by 5 by 5. He was thinking in feet. He got meters.

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UKTim24530@reddit

Even when I bought lumber in the UK I'd still say 2x4 or 2x1 etc. It's just easier to say than the metric dimensions.

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bondinchas@reddit

We use both systems fully, without hesitation.

Plumbing is just as much mixed use, for example, pipe compression fittings will be sized for metric pipe, and the spanners needed to do them up are imperial, both systems used as standard on single components.

What we don't understand is why the USA doesn't use metric.

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AppearanceAwkward364@reddit

In the UK, 2" isn't 47mm it's 50.8mm exactly but gets rounded to 50mm.

1" = 25.4mm.

A 2x4 in the timber section of a DIY store would be 50x100.

Is an American inch different?

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Past-Obligation1930@reddit

I grew up learning to do construction with my strictly ft and inches dad. I’m a scientist and use SI for everything at work.

For lengths when building something I use either inches or cm, depending on which is most sensible. If my wife is helping I use cm since she’s a metric ultra.

Most stuff I am working on my own, and again I’ll use whichever is most sensible.

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Darwen85@reddit

Why would we be traitors using a measurement system we invented?

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nrsys@reddit

Officially everything is in metric - the plans for your house will be in millimeters, as will be the dimensions of your furniture (though they often do also list imperial as an additional value) and so on.

Realistically, most of the standard sizes we use are still based on old imperial measures - houses will often use 38x140mm studs (the modern equivalent of a 2x6"), 100mm clockwork (4" thick), a sheet of OSB or plasterboard will be 2440x1220mm (4"x8") and so on.

So while the plans list everything in mm, a lot of trades will still refer to things by their imperial names out of habit/custom. So you may hear mention of a 6" joist or a 4"x8" sheet, but at the same time I have never really encountered anyone actually measuring and working in imperial measurements - the joist will be 2.6m or 2600mm as measured with a metric tape, not 8'6".

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MarkWrenn74@reddit

Bit of both, really

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skipperseven@reddit

“Stooping to our levels” by using British units?
Technically they are British Imperial units, but also called English units or customary units…
Quite honestly though, I don’t understand why your side of the pond didn’t adopt the new fangled French metric system.
Regarding use, personally I use imperial for rough sizes and estimates, but millimetres and meters for actual work. And just a note that cm should never be used for anything as they are not a primary unit in the SI system, and you will never find them on a real drawing.

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WSMWN4@reddit

“Two point four meters of 2 by four please.” “That’ll be £1.40 per foot and you know its not really two by four? It’s 50mm by 100mm. And it’s rounded down to 44mm by 92mm”

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harani66@reddit

we specify cross-sectionality in inches and length in metres. Go figure

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Additional-Lion6969@reddit

Everything is metric a 3x2 should be 76x50, 2.4m is approximately 8' sheet materials still come as true 8'x4' sheets (OSB, ply, drywall we call that plaster board,etc)but generally labels say 2.4x1.2, problem is 8' is actually 2.384m depends on where you go a 2.4m stick of timber might actually be 2.4m or it might be 2.44m a true 8' +/- 1.6mm which is near enough 1/16" which will annoy engineers because they work in thousandths .https://www.diy.com/search?term=cls%20studwork%20timber

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Vodkaboris@reddit

In my part of the UK, colloquially we refer to 4x2 or 6x2, but all measurements are made in millimetres and metres. Supplier paperwork is also exclusively metric say 47x97 etc. Sheet products such as plasterboard and plywood are referred to verbally in imperial sizes (8x4 ft) although when written it's only ever metric (2440 x 1220).

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Peteat6@reddit

I needed to ship something from NZ to UK. I enjoyed telling the woman at the airline that it was exactly 1 metre by 1 foot.

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Fibro-Mite@reddit

Wait until you meet DIYers who use two different units for a single piece... "I need to cut it 210mm by 4 inches" because those are the closest exact measurements according to your tape measure (that has both units on).

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Stunning-Pudding-514@reddit

As a carpenter i use both, if i am measuring something and the best size needed is imperial i will use that, but 99% of the time i use metric. That is unless i am doing a list of materials then i will use 4x2/ 6x2 etc

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petrujenac@reddit

In the UK we say 4x2 timber but almost all merchants would display the metric size because the UK sources timber from both North America and Europe (including domestic production) which use different sizes for their products.

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Weekly_Inspector_504@reddit

I would say 3 metres of 4x2.

It always sounds strange when an American says 2x4.

Lumber yards use metric and the reciept has metric sizes but they know what you mean when you ask for 4x2.

I use metric for sheet material. I don't hear people say 8x4 anymore.

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Square_Priority6338@reddit

As others say, it’s a grey area. There’s also a generational discrepancy.

I’ll order 2x4’s, and ask for a 2m length, the older chaps I work with will ask for it as a 6 ft 6 length, some of the younger ones ask for 50x100’s. I think as older generations retire, we’ll move to metric more and faster, I also suspect precise measurements like 1828mm for ply which are an imperial legacy will eventually be phased out for rounder metric alternatives, but it’s not going to happen overnight.

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Loose_Acanthaceae201@reddit

For your second point, I'm noticing that while supermarket milk comes in multiples of 568ml, the posh milk is sold in 1L or 2L bottles.

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slightlybettertoast@reddit (OP)

For clarification for any Americans who ask why the hell I would say 4x2, Google ai said that people in the UK sometimes say 4x2

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SparkyCorkers@reddit

And the 'x' is usually the word 'by' or in my dads dorset accent 'bur' as in "Go fetch me that bit er 4 bur 2 boy"

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TheShakyHandsMan@reddit

Up north it’s 8 b 4 etc.

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James_White21@reddit

Yeah it's not a toobyefore

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kebabby72@reddit

You are correct, my wife's dad was a builder and my best mate is a joiner and both use this measurement.

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AdDependent5136@reddit

My family always says "4x2" so its not wrong.

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Emotional-Brief3666@reddit

It's like everything else in the UK, we use a mixture of both, we'll maybe fully adopt the metric system some day but give us time, we only started talking about doing it 208 years ago, adopted most of it (except currency) 61 years ago, then finally currency 55 years ago.

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James_White21@reddit

We have weird sizes like 46x96 because it's sawn at 4"x2" and when it's planed it ends up as a silly millimetre size. If we were properly metric we'd have 50x100mm. But yeah 8'x4' 18mm plywood is a thing.

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Altruistic_Grocery81@reddit

This is the answer. I order 8 x 2 at 4.8 and 6 x 2 at 3.6 all the time.

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Chemical-Sir-7712@reddit

As a English chippy my tape measure has both metric and feet and inches on opposite sides and I use what is the most convenient Also when ordering timber ( not lumber) we would say 4 by 2 or 6 by 2 etc the bigger number is always first

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evelynsmee@reddit

This is a prime example of where we mush them both.

It is sold in metric. The label will state metric, in mm. But we are looking for 2x4.

Specifically, we might be looking for 1.8 metres of 2x4 which the label would say 47x100x1800.

If you think that's wild wait until we tell you about liquids.....our terminology includes whether it came out of a nipple of a cow (pints of milk, litres of juice) or is sold in a different measure to how we measure it (petrol price per litre, car measures miles per gallon nobody knows what a gallon is)

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Take a look at a construction supply stores inventory: https://www.wickes.co.uk/Products/Building-Materials/c/1000173

For lumber metric is also used: https://www.uk-timber.co.uk/273-douglas-fir-beams

The only exceptions I can forsee are old guys stuck in their ways, or imported specialist wood that may come cut in imperial dimensions