Aftermarket catalytic converter doesn’t pass smog check, any advice?

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Acceptable-Deer-2152@reddit

California is such a tease for car enthusiasts, Beautiful weather, scenery, and roads, and then the government has to go and fuck things up

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It's not that big of a deal. I have 3 "enthusiast" cars from the 90s and they all pass fine, and no rust anywhere. One is a total fuck around car i put a turbo and intercooler in and ~ doubled the hp and it's completely legal. You just can't be an idiot and live here at the same time.

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Due_Marsupial_969@reddit

Years ago, I was one of those "fuck the clean air" guy but then my moron of a brother made a good point: "Dude, learn to fix your car." His reasoning was that you shouldn't even be driving a car that runs so shitty it couldn't pass. He was right.

The tolerances are so ridiculously high (even much more ridiculous for older cars) that no self-respecting "car guy" should be calling himself a car guy if his tailpipe emissions doesn't pass California's standards based on tailpipe emissions. We both went to school for auto and were both ASE certified at the time (engine performance and electronics being two of my certs, yikes), so he knew I was just lazy and being a punk.

I've literally asked at a smog shop how my old Beemer managed to pass...like, WTF lol.

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Oak510land@reddit

Yup. Basically if your car can't pass it's probably running like shit, if you're a car enthusiast you should be wanting your car to run right. There are exceptions of course, my e36 is bone stock and in perfect tune but the cats were undersized from the factory so it's always a little high on HC's.

Sure there's barriers to doing some serious mods, but again if you're a serious car enthusiast there's ways to comply like getting into vintage exempt cars, engine swaps into diesel VIN's or going thru the ref process (which I did). I agree the rules help weed out the lazy / negligent folks.

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Due_Marsupial_969@reddit

funny that you mentioned the e36, cuz that old Beemer I questioned them about was my manual e36....owned about 4 of them.

The moment of truth for me came a few years ago when I mentioned smog a few times and my gf and my son didn't know what it was. My son was 32 and my gf was 28 at the time. They thought the smog in "smog check" was some sort of acronym. I had to tell them what it was and that, in my days, some of us rode our bikes with bandanas and respirators on our face in traffic cuz the air was so damn bad. Imagine that: a whole generation of folks who take clean air for granted because some old farts decided enough was enough.

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Oak510land@reddit

Yeah apparently they used the same cats on all the 6 cyl cars so my 3.2l M has a cat designed for the lower output 325's. That's what one tech told me at least, I haven't looked up the part numbers to verify but it's always just barely passing unless I get the cats super hot for the test.

I'm a bit younger so I didn't live through the era of LA having air you could see, though I do recall some bad days as a kid in the 80s, and I've traveled New Delhi and Mexico City before they banned the vw bugs so Ive definitely seen horrific air quality.

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Due_Marsupial_969@reddit

I didn't know they used the same cat. That definitely sucks. BMW did pull a lot of sketchy stuff, but I became a better trouble shooter thanks to them lol

You might've experienced even worse during your travels. During forest fires, I don't even exercise outside when the Air Quality Index is over 120. I listened to a podcast stating that on some days, busy cities in India can get above 1700...WTF.

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Own_Reaction9442@reddit

I had a '94 Honda Civic Del Sol there for several years. I had to replace the cat, and they inspected it to make sure it had the right number on it. I also found there was variance between shops that did tailpipe tests -- it kept failing at one shop but passed when I took it to another. Other than that I had no problems, even though it had the wrong engine in it. (D15B instead of D16Z6.) No one ever checked the block number stamp.

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VoidingSounds@reddit

Our air quality was dogshit 60s and 70s when the population was half what it is today. Hell, it was way smoggier when I was a kid in the 80s than it is now- because the smog controls work.

I wish it wasn't a huge pain in the ass to own anything MY76-95 and swap or tune, but I wouldn't trade clean air for it.

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poutine-eh@reddit

I’m not the smartest person but a Cat is a Cat 🐈‍⬛ and I’m pretty sure if they had tested it you’d have passed. Why would anyone install new cats that aren’t compliant with emissions in CA? Seems very suspicious.

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PPVSteve@reddit

Becase they are about 50% cheaper and flippers regularly do it just so the Check Engien light goes off, but they know it wont pass a CA smog once an inspector looks at it.

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poutine-eh@reddit

Not trying to be an ass but you said “looks” at it. Shouldn’t the results be the most important? A cat isn’t a complicated thing…. how much cheaper is an aftermarket cat and aren’t they likely made in the same factory?

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PPVSteve@reddit

On cars 2000 and newer they do not do a performance test of the cat. They let the vehicles obd system evaluate its performance. But they do do a visual inspection of it to make sure its the correct one for the engine package.

Part of the CARB certifications are not only emissions performance but also increased durability. So usually the CARB approved ones will have a more robust design. And for some cars on the SULEV range those are so efficient some aftermarket companies cannot reach the levels of the oem so they cannot even get thiwr designs certified eventhough they might make a similar one for the federal cars.

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poutine-eh@reddit

not in Cali and we stopped doing emission tests here years ago so please be patient with me. If they rely on the OBD and the car not throwing codes and a visual inspection to make sure the cat is approved and don’t do a performance test then the OPs car fails but my 2011 Ranger with no codes , factory cats that sound like cans full of rocks and gas mileage like a big block v8 would hypothetically pass the smog in Cali?

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PPVSteve@reddit

Yes you are correct. On 2000 and newer as long as the CEL is off its a pass.

Of course another part of the test is to make sure the CEL actually works and lights up.

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poutine-eh@reddit

my CEL works fine… it went off when I had a weak battery

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dewrew80@reddit

I'm fairly certain that is what that means, yes

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No_Geologist_3690@reddit

The only converters that work are OEM.

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PPVSteve@reddit

Incorrect

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No_Geologist_3690@reddit

No it’s correct.

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PPVSteve@reddit

So billions if dollars of aftermarket cats sold in CA are just people throwing thier money away huh? Genius

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No_Geologist_3690@reddit

Yes, they absolutely are. Vehicles are to sensitive and they will throw a p0420/430 with aftermarket cats. They don’t even come close to the efficiency of OEM.

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Due_Marsupial_969@reddit

If that's true, your car has issues.

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No_Geologist_3690@reddit

Issues typically cause a converter to fail. A perfectly good working car will set a P0420/30 with an aftermarket converter.

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Due_Marsupial_969@reddit

Guess I'll have to adjust the sensitivity of that "aftermarket cat detector" on my Prius again, then lol.

If your car is working fine and it set's a code with an aftermarket cat, then you bought a fake cat for 95 bucks on eBay or one of your O2 sensors is bad. In the cars I've owned and worked on, the computer only detects the downstream sensor's voltage fluctuations. If it dances with the upstream, it sets, cuz downstream is not allowed as much fluctuations. That mostly it.

A properly functioning aftermarket cat in a decent working car is not likely to get your voltage dancing until the cat is clogged or it can't heat up enough to burn HC. I live in a high theft area and my cars with aftermarket (yes, even the one with the universal $65 eBay cats) only started failing because the old guy that owns my neighborhood smog shop hired a young assistant and he failed my cars based on visual inspections.

Even my perfectly functioning Honda Odyssey (owned for years and never failed a smog check) could only be sold as a "parts car" because it had an aftermarket cat. It ran perfectly and never set a check engine light. Even on the Toyota Tundra I bought two days ago, I had to get under and check for the CARB numbers because I know cheap aftermarket cats will pass if the smog techs don't check for the numbers.

So yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. And I'm sure some only found out they've been driving around (and passing smog) for years with aftermarket cats after they were told (likely by CarMaxx). That's pretty much what happened to me on one of my cars, too.

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PPVSteve@reddit

Thats true for maybe 10 models in the last 30 years.

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No_Geologist_3690@reddit

Keep telling yourself that pal

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geoff7772@reddit

I know a guy that will pass you for rhe right price

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Original_Job1126@reddit

Dm please

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CartographerHorror56@reddit (OP)

It’s weird cuz the previous owner did the smog check last year on October and it passed

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TellemTom@reddit

There’s a good chance the other smog place just didn’t notice.

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teamtiki@reddit

except, now if the smog place is going it right, the car is flagged in the system as altered... played this game about 4 years ago after my cat was stolen

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TellemTom@reddit

Based on what op said, it seems that the tech didn’t even start smogging, just looked at it and said no.

But yeah you’re right, #star smog for lyfe.

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S7alker@reddit

Previous owner may have had a hookup for the smog or knew a certain shop that didn’t care.

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Snoo59759@reddit

CARB has a database of compliant cats

https://ssl.arb.ca.gov/AftermarketParts/catalysts

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Eves_Automotive@reddit

I use this site quite often

I do smogs

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ImInClassBoring@reddit

Seller has to pay for smog in CA if your initial registration requires smog. Look into CA smog laws for buying a car. Even most as is deals can be unwound by a car not passing smog.

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PPVSteve@reddit

Is it not CARB compliant? Did they write any details like what part number it is?

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CartographerHorror56@reddit (OP)

No he just saw it and said it wouldn’t pass

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mpython1701@reddit

Very good chance that it’s not carb compliant and missing the EO number needed. I’m going to guess he didn’t even need to run the Check because he failed it on the visual without the correct paperwork and tag. Depending on your car, the correct catalytic converter installed by a licensed shop is going to be around $2000.

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Oak510land@reddit

Why a licensed shop? For some vehicles you can get a carb complaint unit for $300-500 and have a local independent muffler shop weld it in for $100. Or DIY if you have a welder.

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mpython1701@reddit

CA has become super picky.

The install site may need to be BAR certified as a replacement or smog repair. I believe the requirement changed 3-4 years ago. At one point was interpreted as dealer installed OEM only. I think it has been clarified and as long as it’s a BAR certified for catalytic converter repair, you’re good.

If anyone has more specific details, please elaborate.

But did find this on the BAR website:

Take your vehicle to a licensed Smog Check station to have a replacement converter installed. The replacement converter must be from the Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) or a California Air Resources Board approved aftermarket converter with an assigned Executive Order (EO) number that meets the exact requirements for your vehicle. The station will help ensure the correct replacement converter is properly installed on your vehicle. Use BAR’s Auto Shop Locator to find a Smog Check station to complete the installation. For assistance with locating a hard-to-find replacement converter, contact the vehicle manufacturer or Smog Check Referee. Please note, the replacement converter should be installed as soon as possible to avoid potential problems and damage to your vehicle, and must be installed before your vehicle's next Smog Check. If the replacement converter is on back order, contact the Smog Check Referee for assistance.

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Oak510land@reddit

I don't think they care who installs it, the smog tech will just use a mirror on a stick and make sure he can read the EO number and the cat is in the right location.

The first sentence of what you posted doesn't read like a requirement, whereas the rest does.

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mondaymoderate@reddit

What year is the car?

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PPVSteve@reddit

I would get a second opinion. Sounds like the guy did not want to do any work. If you can get some pics of the bottom of it it might have some identifying numbers on there.

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faroutman7246@reddit

Go to different shop, give them a Ben Franklin handshake.

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dsdtrilogy@reddit

I managed to pass with an OEM cat bought from a junkyard out of state. Don't tell them, because you're not supposed to do that, but if you're willing to take the risk it's a much cheaper option.

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Miller335@reddit

CARB needs to be disbanded

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TheStig827@reddit

There's 10 million people living in a postage stamp here.. go look at pix from the 70s of how bad smog was.

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MindsetB@reddit

Cars in the 70s didn't have pcv systems, egr systems, variable timing, etc

The pcv alone cut emissions 75%

We have been steadily chasing diminishing returns that provide little environmental benefit while making cars worse overall for consumers

We are well past the point that the solution is not more crap on ice cars and not pushing everyone into evs but actually building out public transit that moves people efficiently and quickly

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Oak510land@reddit

There's twice as many people that live in CA than there were in the 70s.

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Miller335@reddit

Oh I remember. I have family there and I remember seeing the smog as a child in the 80's when we visited.

But that's long gone, the federal emissions are more than enough.

CARB is just a luxury tax at this point that even poor people have to deal with. Just like the fuel blend in Cali.

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set-monkey@reddit

Move to Florida with no inspections, no expensive gas blends, no state income tax and only $45 yearly auto registration.

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PPVSteve@reddit

Yea clean air is easy with no hills and hurricanes to move the air out.

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Leave_Eye607@reddit

Buy spacers for your 02 sensors so the check engine light doesn’t come on.

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PPVSteve@reddit

Don't think that was his problem. Problem was it is not a CARB compliant cat.

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Dexford211@reddit

Year, make, model makes a HUGE difference in this thread.

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mr_lockwork@reddit

I don't know how close you live to a state that dosen't have smog checks, but I live next to Illinois on the indiana side (no emissions testing) and I run into people at the junk yard from Illinois pulling CATs to put on their cars all the time since they are cheaper/not in demand here.

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Saruvan_the_White@reddit

I will have the same issue when I go to re-register my vehicle. I am technically the fourth owner, but the original was the city and county of San Francisco. It’s a natural gas vehicle and it doesn’t have half the emission stuff on it that petrol vehicles do. But it still has a catalytic converter but a very specialized one with a unique EO number and I cannot find it anywhere. Over the life of the vehicle for 24 years someone swapped out the Cadillac converter for one that is identical, but mismatched EO number. I was told by an inspector it would fail.

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newleaf_-@reddit

Toilet paper tube full of dryer sheets

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Unlikely-Act-7950@reddit

Did he just say it wouldn't pass or did they test it and it failed?

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CartographerHorror56@reddit (OP)

He just said it wouldn’t pass

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Unlikely-Act-7950@reddit

They should have tested it as it was presented. The only way to know if f it actually fails is to test it. I would file a complaint against the testing facility

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avoidhugeships@reddit

California will fail it just based on a part number. They don't care if it's clean or not.

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mpython1701@reddit

Nope. No matter how clean it blows and no check engine light it has to be an official approved replacement part.

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Flenke@reddit

If it doesn't have the proper stampings, it instantly fails visual inspection

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PPVSteve@reddit

Yea but a big part of that is actually perfoming the test and failing it then noting the reason why it failed.

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Cryptomeria@reddit

In California, there is a visual inspection and you need to pass that as well as the emissions.

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AKADriver@reddit

In California the part number/EO number on the catalyst has to match before they bother actually doing an exhaust gas test.

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jake250591@reddit

You will have to get a CARB complaint converter that has all proper EO numbers. Just a warning they are not cheap.

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CartographerHorror56@reddit (OP)

Where do I get that? Is rock auto good as long as part number and eo numbers match?

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PPVSteve@reddit

Have to match your Engine family numbner. You can find that on your underhood emissions sticker.

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AKADriver@reddit

It's fine. "49 state/federal" aftermarket catalysts can be hit or miss because they only have to meet the bare minimum. CARB legal catalysts are more expensive because they're held to a much higher standard and contain a lot more precious metal catalyst material.

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jake250591@reddit

Yes rock auto has them. You may have to get the group number and engine size from your emisson label and verify that the EO number and cat part number are correct. It may say california legal but not legal for your particular car.

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Scazitar@reddit

You guys have the strictest regulations in the county. Literally noone deals with this so you do need to get very specially a California compliant cat. The rest of just using the normal cheaper ones.

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Flenke@reddit

You need not only California emissions but also CARB compliant; the first makes sure it fits correctly and works for your car, the second makes sure it has the proper stampings and certification for inspection

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Gunk_Olgidar@reddit

Don't use non-CARB cats in a CARB jurisdiction. They won't pass visual inspection (as they lack the CARB serial #s), and rarely pass emissions (regardless of visual) more than 12 months anyway.

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Eschewed_Prognostic@reddit

The EO should be stamped on it. If not, get the part number off the cat and look up the compliant parts for your car. Make sure the one you have matches. I've had multiple cars with aftermarket cats I put in and got passed. Some smog guys huff too many fumes and reject anything aftermarket because they can't read.

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ruddy3499@reddit

Ask a smog repair shop which muffler shops they trust. We have a local shop that installs approved cats by vin and engine family number