are you learning your host language at all or just getting by?
Posted by ShemikaMartin@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 80 comments
Maybe it depends on the country you've moved to, but for me, I feel like I need to learn the language to be able to have a better social life (French with anki, praktika, and the boulangerie guy). Sometimes I meet other expats who have been in their host country for yeeeears and don't learn the language but seem to get by with no issues.
does it depend on the country/language? Or is it just individual differences/priorities?
AttentionIll5861@reddit
learning but it's very hard! I just built myself a web app to help me actually get through the news without being overwhelmed entirely - with two kids I find time to learn a real challenge
govnyuuk@reddit
B2, baby (in speaking at least)
kaosrules2@reddit
I'm a little late to the party, but I think it's disrespectful to move to a country and not learn the language. I already know I want to live in Central America in 5 years, so I am already studying Spanish. I use multiple methods and it is going very well. I just have to be patient and consistent.
winery_bound_expat@reddit
Not there yet — still stateside planning a move to Italy — but I started learning Italian about a year ago and it's honestly become one of my favorite parts of the whole process. I do Duolingo daily (the streak shame is real) and have a conversation tutor on iTalki twice a week. The thing that helped most was switching my podcast queue to Italian wine podcasts. You learn vocabulary fast when the topic is something you're already obsessed with.
Reading this thread though, the comments about people immediately switching to English hit close to home. I visited Tuscany last fall and every time I attempted my broken Italian at a wine bar, the staff would smile politely and respond in perfect English. Part of me was grateful, part of me wanted to say "no please, let me suffer through this, it's the only way I'll learn."
I think the biggest takeaway from all these comments is that intent matters more than proficiency. People can tell when you're genuinely trying versus just expecting them to accommodate you. That respect seems to go a long way regardless of the country.
winery_bound_expat@reddit
Exactly. For me it'll be daily since the plan is rural Tuscany, not an expat bubble in Rome or Milan. The wine guys I've met so far barely speak English and honestly that's part of the appeal. Forces you to actually learn instead of falling back on English the second it gets hard.
ShemikaMartin@reddit (OP)
100% re: topic you're obsessed with. And yup, depends on how much you intend to interact with the locals on a daily basis.
Square_Positive_559@reddit
Yeah I am learning it because I want to stay on the long term in the country (Norway).
Honestly speaking, you can live without but it decreases a lot work opportunities.
Everyone speak english in this country but a lot of big compagnies requires Norwegian..
LeneHansen1234@reddit
Well you need minimum A2 for permanent residency and B1 for citizenship so for anyone wanting to stay it is important to learn Norwegian.
Square_Positive_559@reddit
No, as european citizen you can stay without visa
ShemikaMartin@reddit (OP)
Nice. I heard grammatically Norwegian is pretty easy. Is it?
justforme31@reddit
The best way to learn the language is to hang out with other people who are learning the language. Try to find some mixed friends groups that forces you to practice
KostyaFedot@reddit
It just age and involvement. Best age is young, best involvement is work with locals.
ShemikaMartin@reddit (OP)
Interesting take.
KostyaFedot@reddit
It just facts. From my two moves and family.
MikeyLew32@reddit
IMO, not learning the language will significantly increase the "outsider" feeling, and you'll never feel integrated.
RearAdmiralP@reddit
I already know that I'm an outsider. I'm not trying to LARP as a local. I feel integrated as a foreigner.
Shadowlady@reddit
LARP as a local, that's such a good way of describing it!
gowithflow192@reddit
You will never be integrated anyway.
palbuddy1234@reddit
I agree, coming from Switzerland. The bar is too high and people from other Cantons can't as well.
I'll pay my taxes, learn the language, be respectful and kind, not do laundry on Sundays..... And that's good enough for me.
ShemikaMartin@reddit (OP)
Is this laundry thing real?
AgreeAndSubmit@reddit
When I lived in Germany, that was a weird adjustment. Keeping chores to a minimum on Sundays. That's the day to clean the haus.
palbuddy1234@reddit
That's also a day off from school and at the same time to be extra quiet. Lol
Particular-System324@reddit
Is it easy enough to find a foreigner "expat" circle in Switzerland, if getting into a native social circle n Switzerland is impossible?
palbuddy1234@reddit
I think so. I have a family here and most people are kind and we have a decent amount of playdates. Some Swiss are ok too, but we're not very social and Geneva is kind of laughable for any sort of nightlife.
HVP2019@reddit
I feel integrated. I definitely feel more at ease, more comfortable, more “at home” in my host country compared to my country of origin. Sure my English isn’t perfect but it stopped being an issue long time ago.
SmokeMountain4777@reddit
I'm british living in NL and agree with you about feeling more at home here than there. But i still lurk in a few groups and look from an outside perspective back to the old house and do SMH sometimes
picklefingerexpress@reddit
But you can feel more connected, which for me at least, is the real goal.
lovepeacefakepiano@reddit
Depends on the country. I felt integrated in Ireland. Probably why I’m still dreaming of going back.
Long_Relationship578@reddit
I cannot understand how someone manages to live in Germany without speaking German. I cannot do anything in English and, at some point, I stopped trying.
Honestly, outside of IT, never saw job opportunities which speaking german wasnt a requirement.
ShemikaMartin@reddit (OP)
Does the city influence that at all? Like, Berlin should be most fine with mostly English, I assume?
biest229@reddit
I would disagree with the other person that replied. I have lived here for eight years, more English is spoken by the day.
Never saw a job offer that didn’t require German? Well none of my last three jobs did, and almost none of the 1300 people I work with speak German. My German boyfriend speaks English at work.
Long_Relationship578@reddit
I lived in Berlin for a bit, its better but people exaggerate it by a lot, specially if you are trying to do more burocratic stuff, German is a must and not speaking it will set you back a lot (Getting an apartment, doing virtually anything on the bank, or anything legal). And, again, never saw a job offer that didnt require German, even in Berlin.
Whenever people talk about "you can live here in English only" its noramlly only for IT, which pays you enough money to afford certain services that will be tailored for this group.
Strict-Armadillo-199@reddit
And yet, I regularly see replies telling people they can get by in English here. I've lived in Germany 24 years, and my experience is what you wrote. My first couple years, I had to take a local with me to the immigration office, any service port (bank, phone shop, etc.), even the gynecologist. I think it was that last one that forced me to get really serious about learning German.
Long_Relationship578@reddit
I helped a friend going to the doctor once, although it was nothing serious, I could feel the experience was somehow very humilliating for them... Now they speak german better than I do
palbuddy1234@reddit
Maybe unpopular, but I'll tell you the truth. I'm a trailing spouse and very busy as one of my kids isn't in school now. I get by, do the best I can and manage with my wife and one kid fluent. Next year I'm in language classes and currently do what I can in french. Usually I get what I need to get done with humility, a2 French and am as kind and respectful as I can. I open every time with French, go as far as I can and have a lot of patience.
I know it's on me and feel dumb a lot but I do try. Most people, that's good enough and I haven't had major issues, but I don't mind laughing at myself.
HVP2019@reddit
This sounds normal. I moved to US with little English. I was busy with family/house and part time job, I think I only managed to take 3 months on English total. The rest of what I’ve learned was from living in US, from watching/reading/consuming English books, movies, social media.
ShemikaMartin@reddit (OP)
u/HVP2019 You're making a really good point. I think if you're an expat in the US, there's a LOT more pressure for you to assimilate or integrate and learn the language fast. Do you feel that?
HVP2019@reddit
What do you mean “more pressure”? What would that be?
If I were to come to Canada instead of US, my need to learn English would be as great. If I were to come to Germany with little German, the same would be true there. When foreigners come to my country they are expected to learn language of my country, make effort to mingle with locals, get familiar with our culture.
I have childhood friends who moved to UK, Italy, NL, Portugal. We all learned languages, some of us eventually married locals. We talked about our experiences and I can’t think of examples where I would experience more pressure in US compered to my friends in their l countries.
palbuddy1234@reddit
That's great. I hope you're doing well.
ShemikaMartin@reddit (OP)
Not unpopular at all. Trying is usually rewarded.
here4theptotest2023@reddit
Why next year? Is this one of those 'in the future but will never really happen' things?
palbuddy1234@reddit
Because next year my youngest will be in school. As mentioned I'm quite busy with raising a family.
Wide_Annual_3091@reddit
Tbh it sounds like you’re doing really well. Moving to a different country with little kids, keeping the family/household moving etc are all big enough, and you have a plan to improve your language skills (which you’re already using!). Don’t beat yourself up - you’re doing great.
palbuddy1234@reddit
That's very kind. It's very rewarding but not very easy raising kids abroad. Swiss society is traditional for one stay at home parent, as Wednesdays have no school and daycare is expensive. Locals have a network of neighbors or older family members to look after kids on Wednesday. Us immigrants not so much.
Wide_Annual_3091@reddit
We don’t have kids, but are lucky enough to live in an area with lots of expats/migrants and people tend to find community in each other and help - but I get what you’re saying.
gowithflow192@reddit
Not worth it if you’re at the mercy of your employer with regards work visa.
ShemikaMartin@reddit (OP)
So it's about permanence?
subthreethousand@reddit
American in Germany, working for a tech start-up (in only English), living in a major city. I thought about staying here indefinitely but recently had a change of heart and probably will only stay through 2028 or so.
I tried (both apps as well as in-person proper Goethe Institute courses) for a while, ultimately placing into B1.1. I can comprehend a lot more than I can speak.
Ultimately, decided that I know enough to get by (understanding when someone is asking something of me, ordering when out, etc.) and that realistically I would never have a desire to express myself further in German because my circle in both work and life operate almost exclusively in English. Even if I did know German fluently, there is almost always someone (Italian, Spanish, Brasilian, etc.) in my circle that would also prefer English or doesn’t speak German. Additionally most Germans I encounter — even the ones that are conscious of it — speak better English than German.
I do some daily exercises on the app just to keep my familiarity with the language semi active beyond small daily conversation, and I’m good with that. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
ShemikaMartin@reddit (OP)
100%. And this is what keeps people sometimes from practicing the host language (necessity).
Wide_Annual_3091@reddit
I have two private tuition classes a week and have a personal rule to speak my host language as much as possible and always start conversations on it for as long as possible.
I just think it’s polite, but also i HATE being dependent on others to help me with understanding and never want to be in a situation where there’s an emergency or something super important and I don’t understand.
ShemikaMartin@reddit (OP)
Yup, the dependency aspect is a huge motivator for me too.
Wide_Annual_3091@reddit
I told my tutor that I hate learning Spanish (it’s hard for me even though I enjoy getting better) but I hate being reliant on other people / looking dumb waaaaaay more - so we best get going!
ShemikaMartin@reddit (OP)
Do you do in-person tutors?
Wide_Annual_3091@reddit
Mine is virtual but she lives nearby. I found her through word of mouth and it’s been fantastic for improving my vocab and confidence really quickly.
CuriosTiger@reddit
"seem to" being the operative phrase there. I know people who live in countries where they don't speak the local language, and it's a challenge to say the least.
I've lived in two countries, and in both cases, I learned the local language. It seems a no-brainer to me that your life will be a ton easier if you can communicate with the people around you. That would seem to hold true no matter which country you're in.
NegotiationStatus727@reddit
Maybe an unpopular opinion but if you don’t bother to learn the language of your host country you’re basically just a tourist with a permanent address. I’m not saying you have to be perfect but not even trying is wild and kind of disrespectful to your host country.
ListenToRush@reddit
Actively learning Chinese and I get better every day. Really enjoyable
Phronesis2000@reddit
Yes, I do think it is important to speak the language to integrate socially. However, I also think that 'true integraion' (having a heap of local friendss that you speak to in their own language a matter of routine) is immensely difficult and not often achieved.
I'm in Germany, and speak German fairly well on a day-to-day level. But to get it up to the level it needs to be for social integration is basically C2+ and requires many years of hard work. I will get there one day.
tradingbez@reddit
I feel this completely. Pushing from functional German to true C2 social fluency is a brutal grind, mostly because it requires absorbing so much nuanced, native vocabulary.
When I moved to Germany, I started reading local books and news to bridge that gap, but manually looking up and making flashcards for every new slang or advanced word was exhausting. As a side project, I built an app called Mein Wortschatz to automate it.
You just snap a photo of whatever you're reading, and it instantly extracts the vocab and turns it into spaced-repetition flashcards.
expats-ModTeam@reddit
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Humble-Ask-8691@reddit
they will never accept you anyways
Cinderpath@reddit
I’m in Austria and am extremely well accepted.
Phronesis2000@reddit
It's unlikely, I agree. But I have seen in happen and fluent language is a requirement. The problem is that most people don't understand what that native fluency means anymore.
elevenblade@reddit
I learned Swedish before moving here and I’m glad I did. In my case it was an absolute requirement for getting a medical license and a job. But I think it was a major factor in me fitting in to the community and making friends. I think if I only relied on English I would feel pretty socially isolated.
Top-Half7224@reddit
I plateaued at about a B1 level. I can navigate day to day things, but in a crowded room or deep conversation I start to lose it after 10 minutes. I think I would need to take classes and have conversations with native speakers on a regular basis, but as my English-speaking job and family take up most of my time, and English is widely spoken in my city, I've leveled off.
beerouttaplasticcups@reddit
I am learning Danish in order to pass the language exam necessary for permanent residency. For the first few years before deciding that I want to stay long-term, I got by extremely easily in Copenhagen with my native English and a few Danish pleasantries. Now that I plan to stay, I am making my Danish education a priority. However, I honestly wouldn’t advise expats moving to Copenhagen for a few years to bother with it. There are many better ways to spend your free time here, and any Danish language skills will be useless once you leave (unless going to another Scandinavian country).
Primary-Angle4008@reddit
I moved to the UK so English was very easy as I was already fluent but I picked up a lot of native terms and slang besides the more formal English
I started learning Hindi as India is next on my list in 1-2 years time and even though you can get by with English very well there are still many Indians who don’t speak it
SpaceBetweenNL@reddit
In the Netherlands, locals speak English with ALL adult immigrants. My English is absolutely fluent, but I also learned some Dutch in the past (my Dutch is around A2-B1). I don't use Dutch at work or in my social circle, though.
Champsterdam@reddit
I’m trying to learn Dutch here in Amsterdam but honestly it’s hard because nearly 99% of the population speaks near native level English and if you try in broken Dutch they will just flip to English without even thinking about it.
It’s interesting I will be having a deep conversation in English with someone and suddenly they will slip mid sentence and keep going in Dutch. Then I point it out and they didn’t even know they flipped to Dutch. They’re so fluid in both.
I know many people who have been here a decade and know a tiny handful of Dutch words.
Several_Purchase_775@reddit
Yeah, having to learn English, unfortunately.
owzleee@reddit
I’ve been in South America for 8 years but my job was all in English. I get by in Spanish but was always frustrated. My job’s hours made it difficult to take lessons. But I’ve just retired and start Spanish school today! Finalmente!! It has j
uzibunny@reddit
Honestly I'm trying but it's really tough. I've been learning for four years but can barely express myself. I'm trying to learn Japanese, but as a mother to a young child under 3 I haven't had that much time to devote to it and it's so different to English it just doesn't stick in my brain like other languages do. I always considered myself quite good at picking up languages (French, Spanish, and even Chinese) but the grammatical structure and indirect way of saying things makes it so challenging to speak Japanese. I have lessons twice a week, but progress is incredibly slow. But I'm here for the long run, so I try to be patient about it.
Freya_almighty@reddit
Trying to learn it before moving there !! So i can get by and learn better once i'm there
yokyopeli09@reddit
Learning the language is an abasolute priority for me. Your social life will be so much better even if you just know the basics, I've made friends just by showing that I'm trying.
The 1000 most common words will get you far, you'll be able to make out most daily signage you'll see and it'll make you feel much more at home and less of an outsider.
NansDrivel@reddit
I’m actively learning it!
ComplicatedSunshine@reddit
Unless you know for a fact that you're only staying for a year or two at most, learning at least the basics should be non-negotiable. There hardly any excuse for that level of refusing to integrate and it helps the anti-immigration cause
ShemikaMartin@reddit (OP)
I hear you. "Serrurerie" is still my worst nightmare if I need one.
Livid_Importance_453@reddit
Honestly it really depends on the country. In northern Europe or major expat hubs you can get away with English forever. But places like France or Spain? You'll hit a ceiling socially and professionally without the language. I've seen people coast for years and then wonder why they have no local friends. The effort you put in directly correlates with how much you get out of it.
hey-hey-hey1@reddit
I live in Andorra, and when I first settled I convinced myself it was better to learn Spanish than Catalan. Now I regret it, and am learning Catalan with holacatala.com, and making much greater in roads with the community, friends, neighbours and work too. I can get by with Spanish, but I should have learnt Catalan first.