TheaterFire

How are aircraft, especially big commercial ones, able to fly in formation like this but in normal everyday operations, ATC has to give a few minutes separation between aircraft?

Posted by Slice5755@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 27 comments

How are aircraft, especially big commercial ones, able to fly in formation like this but in normal everyday operations, ATC has to give a few minutes separation between aircraft?

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27 Comments

No-Brilliant9659@reddit

Flying the same flight path as the aircraft in front of you vs flying along side. One makes you susceptible to wake turbulence, the other does not.
View on Reddit #81499426

SlothSpeed@reddit

You could probably load the same flight path for each aircraft. Then, starting with the 350, select the FMS to offset right .5 miles. Then the 330 offset right 1 mile and so on. Everyone maintains selected speed and altitude. Boom, there's your picture.
View on Reddit #81500093

stevendurh@reddit

Nope.. no pilot I know would trust an FMS to maintain spacing of less than a mile. To be honest I dont think the FMS will accept a value less than 1. Ive never tried. The wake turbulence issue is solved by slightly staggering altitudes, with the lead being lowest, then slight higher, and so on, as is taught in military formation. Ill stick with my original theory. That photo nowadays is AI. Nothing else makes sense.
View on Reddit #82326971

Apprehensive_Cost937@reddit

Airlines fly in accordance with Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) and apart from takeoff and landing, they can operate in zero visibility throughout the flight. You could be in cloud from takeoff until landing, and your flight would be on time. For a flight like on the picture, weather needs to be perfect, and all crews require special training, and pre-flight briefing, and be in constant communication throughout, and require skills much above that of an average pilot. Where aviation is at the moment, we can't even agree on the use of standardised phraseology for declaration of urgency/emergency worldwide, let alone for example pilots from 5 different airlines flying in a formation like this.
View on Reddit #81500631

stevendurh@reddit

The icao phrase for aircraft in distress has always been "Pan Pan Pan" since I think the late 40s. Unfortunately, it has become a bit of a joke for pilots crossing the Atlantic, when during the crossing, the common frequency is 123.45 and one can ofen hear bored flight crews calling; Pan Pan (yawn) Pan. Stupid for sure, but you also hear bad imitations of Cats meowing. More common nowadays, not sure why, is Mayday, Mayday, Mayday... which is primarily used by US pilots domestically, but whose usage has gone international. Are you bored yet?
View on Reddit #82326636

TheGreatBlondini2010@reddit

In the 90's I was fueling a 185 on amphibs and passed the hose up to the pilot on the wing. Looking beyond him into the sky saw at about 10k ft what looked to be a 767, 757 and a 737 in formation. Caught a glint of a chase plane which was probably taking pics. This was over Vancouver Island so fairly close to Seattle.
View on Reddit #81499630

OrdinaryAncient3573@reddit

A good chance the chase plane was one of Clay Lacy's. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay\_Lacy#Aerial\_cinematography](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay_Lacy#Aerial_cinematography) Absolute legend.
View on Reddit #81524052

Rampage_Rick@reddit

My favorite "close to Seattle" story is when they tested a 737 at the grass airstrip in Hope BC (of *First Blood* fame) https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/49q7ow/boeing_737_landing_at_cyhe_hope_bc_grass_strip_in/
View on Reddit #81501183

agha0013@reddit

these are special flights with very well trained test pilots for promotional purposes. They train and they use up a big chunk of airspace to do this. They also don't land in formation or anything, they break up and get in a standard lineup to land with all the required spacing. They also make sure they don't put themselves in a position where the most dangerous aspects of being close to another aircraft come into effect. They stay out of each others' vortex, and communicate constantly so everyone knows what to do and when to do it. this stuff is not done bumbling about at low altitude in the approach corridors of a busy airport
View on Reddit #81498378

Mediocre-Catch9580@reddit

Watch out for the random fire trucks 
View on Reddit #81501627

aviation-ModTeam@reddit

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View on Reddit #81505036

Glittering_Oil7761@reddit

Do better as a human. 
View on Reddit #81502099

montagious@reddit

There's no reason to ever be this close, other than the photo op you're seeing here. This isn't just 4 line pilots doing this either, probably Airbus test pilots. Formation flying has big threats and risks, and would be done by guys with experience, as well as special authorization from the FAA
View on Reddit #81503487

Soarlikealion@reddit

They are not flying in formation. This is an image made to compare the different airplane sizes. The 380 and 350 and 330 and 320 should indicate that it’s just a comparison of the different planes that Airbus makes. It’s likely from an advertisement.
View on Reddit #81503264

doom_pizza@reddit

One situation is a photo shoot and the other isn’t.
View on Reddit #81499105

on3day@reddit

I thought this is a once a season mating session.
View on Reddit #81502663

Obvious-Asparagus-51@reddit

Runways aren't quite wide enough to land lor takeoff like that.
View on Reddit #81501795

wrong_axiom@reddit

They are not that close. Longer focal length compresses the perspective. Try with your phone, and then consider that this is done using lenses 100 times higher length
View on Reddit #81501500

kil0ran@reddit

Ducks and geese seem to be pretty good at doing this, and they're not fly-by-wire. Actually echelon formation is incredibly energy efficient for them (and for cyclists where echelons are greatly feared on windy days for their ability to make breaks form in the peloton). Something like a 60% energy saving for a given speed thanks to upwash from wing vortices
View on Reddit #81501340

GGCRX@reddit

Aside from what the others have said, one reason is visibility. Every pilot in that picture is fully aware that they're flying in close proximity to 3 other planes. They're real close to each other so it's easy to see. Real-world passenger flying, you don't necessarily know everyone who's out there, or exactly where they are, and you aren't coordinating directly with them to avoid ending up in the same piece of sky as them unintentionally. There's also the element that ATC isn't just coordinating you and the guy you're closest to. They're dealing with dozens of planes simultaneously and as we just unfortunately saw recently, they can make mistakes. Maintaining large gaps of separation lets them figure out and correct those mistakes much more readily than if you were bombing along 5 seconds behind the guy in front of you.
View on Reddit #81500673

SchnellFox@reddit

Awesome twin engine A380 pic
View on Reddit #81500445

Ebomb5212@reddit

“Tower, Airbus flight of 4 ready for departure”
View on Reddit #81500266

hondaridr58@reddit

Prior coordination on the ground. (See 91.111)
View on Reddit #81500041

stevendurh@reddit

Flew both the 320 and the 330 for Delta before retiring 6 months ago. I agree with the previous responses, and know for a fact that Boeing, Airbus, and McDonnell Douglas used to do this, but nowadays? AI is cheap, and doesn't burn Jet-A.
View on Reddit #81499188

fly_awayyy@reddit

This was shot a few years back before they were peaking making AI videos
View on Reddit #81499749

_litz@reddit

For ATC purposes, the flight of four is treated as a single entity, with the lead aircraft being the one that coordinates with ATC.
View on Reddit #81499712

davidspdmstr@reddit

Both Airbus and Boeing have demonstration teams with pilots specially trained to do formation flying.
View on Reddit #81498675