Can I stop my child being advertised to at school?

[-]

AdditionalDonut8706@reddit

When browser based videos became common on the internet, they quickly became embedded in teaching resources. There used to be a handful of different video hosting sites, but now YouTube have a monopoly and they show a lot of adverts. So on a normal day at school your child will probably see a handful of short videos, and the teacher is extremely unlikely to be able to skip or silence all of the adverts.

Reply

[-]

WigglyBigPoppa@reddit

learn to tell your kids no. it's that simple. why try to hide them from something they're going to encounter forever?

Reply

[-]

Flowers330@reddit

Your kid will encounter all sorts in life that they can't have, it's a lesson to teach at home generally that you have to make choices where money is spent. Some kids will get to go to the music lessons and others won't, but to not let everyone know they exist isn't a good way to make it feel fair.

Reply

[-]

Intelligent-Gain-673@reddit

You have a point. But the commercialisation of absolutely everything is annoying too - and it starts as soon as you are born, with those Bounty fuckers who barge in on vulnerable new mothers with the blessing of the hospital.

Reply

[-]

pineappleshampoo@reddit

I refused Bounty. At one point the midwives even said if we needed nappies we’d have to do Bounty (day four and we’d ran out and couldn’t get to a shop to buy any, none sold on hospital grounds) to get a couple free ones. I just refused. It’s disgraceful what they are allowed to do.

Reply

[-]

Various-Storage-31@reddit

It was the cheery and far too pushy photographer for me, opening the curtains to pitch to me less than 24 hours after a crash csection and horrific 2 day induction. Shouldn't be allowed

Reply

[-]

Valherudragonlords@reddit

What is Bounty?

Reply

[-]

LiliWenFach@reddit

I did the same. The Bounty rep told me that unless I gave her the info she requested I wouldn't get the child benefit forms. 'That's okay,' I replied. 'My husband has already sorted it online.' Not my first rodeo. Yes, what they do is disgraceful. I used an old email address to sign up with the first child. 500+ spam emails from companies they sold my data to. Closed the account.

Reply

[-]

Asher-D@reddit

You refused free nappies? And then your infant didn't have nappies so their clothes got dirty?

Reply

[-]

pineappleshampoo@reddit

A friend ended up having to drive a 30m round trip to bring some for us, we were really lucky he could. For context we were stuck in hospital for two weeks and had only anticipated a couple days. So we ran out of everything. And yes, not giving my data for two free fucking nappies.

Reply

[-]

Flowers330@reddit

I don't disagree with that but this one is a music club for kids for what sounds like £11 a session (£44 a month), presumably including the room, instruments, teachers, lesson plans and maybe even snacks! You would struggle to get a babysitter for that.

Reply

[-]

itsfourinthemornin@reddit

Yeah, I wouldn't grumble at that price assuming it equals 4 lessons a month. My parents are attempting to get my son to go to a club he used to on their nights (have him a few nights a week for me generally), not realising the constant nagging/forcing has pushed him away from it even more. I just signed him up to one for his interests and he's excited as heck (computer/gaming/social club for kids, but offer so much more), £10 for PAYG session or £35/month. We're trying it over the holidays, he's planning 2 sessions a week already (one in the week, one on the weekend) so £35 for 8 sessions a month is a steal imo, lunch provided or take your own. They offer discounted prices/support for those struggling financially which I think more kid's groups should offer.

Reply

[-]

Flowers330@reddit

That is a great price! I am showing my age perhaps when I say that my youth club only cost 50p a week and that included squash and crisps, long gone are those days. That club was well funded by the government and perhaps they will pick up that slack again one day.

Reply

[-]

itsfourinthemornin@reddit

Haha, don't worry, must be close in age as I remember youth clubs being 50p or even free! My first childhood home had a community centre right behind us, had a variety of clubs that took part in local events (march band, cheerleading, social clubs, activity clubs, etc) but was open as a free-for-all space something like 8am-8pm, especially school holidays. Local residents ran it, provided for it, fundraised for it. Even the small local shops and pub would send down drinks and snacks for the kids. I used to have a little pulley cart I'd walk down with (usually with supervision of my brother or dad, I was still a very small itsfourinthemornin) full of said drinks and snacks from the pub, as my mum was manager (and worked most days, bless her). Even the owner of said pub would open up the function room to let us play in there (lots of toys for birthdays, etc) and the huge garden space it had. Both are long gone now - one is a block of flats and the other is a care home now!

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

These clubs were set up in the 60s to deal with feral youths attacking each other with knives. Singer [Frankie Vaughan](https://dangerousminds.net/comments/frankie_vaughan_and_glasgows_gang_culture_of_the_1960s/) did a lot of good work in that field. Budgets cuts and greedy developers closed them. We now have feral youths attacking each other with knives again.

Reply

[-]

itsfourinthemornin@reddit

With and without knives, sadly I know that all too well.

Reply

[-]

not-at-all-unique@reddit

Based on the price… I think this might be a specific “scheme provider” that goes into schools. A peri teach arrives, takes kids out of lessons in groups of 4-7. They each get an instrument and role in a band. (Drums, keyboard, guitar, bass, vocal) They select and learn a single song, which is then performed in an assembly at the end of the term. All the instruments are bottom of the barrel cheap things, the kids do not get to hire/take home to practice. And the ‘lesson’ is about 30 minutes. They learn the songs by rote, and never learn to read music. Three years in, my daughter (a keyboard player in her band) has started basic block chords. The guitar players are still playing on one or two strings, one note at a time. In the concert all the (performing) kids are referred to as ‘rockstars’ and the kids that watch their peers perform are encouraged to pester their parents to say they also want to be rockstars. Daughter loves the group, loves playing, and being in a band with her friends, that’s what matters most, but £44 a month is very steep for what they actually get… Especially when there are out of school options that may be nearby. In the area where I live there is a brass band that has ‘starter bands’ That’s setup as group learning, learning to play notes, learning to read music, includes hire of instruments, at a cost of £35 per term (3 months for less than the cost of 1 month of this school scheme.) Neither provides snacks!

Reply

[-]

Greedy-Nature-826@reddit

£11 a session (usually 30 mins) with usually 6 kids at a time in our school. That's £132/hour - with the room provided for free by the school.

Reply

[-]

72dk72@reddit

It's not just the time the tutor spend with the kids is travel preparation etc. You could argue the same with a plumber or boiler engineer (who spends 3 30-40 mins servicing your boiler charging £80+) Why is a music tutor valued at less than a tradesman. See a vet or a detust , their hourly rate works out about £200+

Reply

[-]

Flowers330@reddit

Have a go at listing out all of the overheads too - for example the time to plan the lessons, printing costs, costs to buy, repair, clean instruments, price of consumables like guitar strings, time for the teacher to get between schools for lessons.

Reply

[-]

Greedy-Nature-826@reddit

In ours, kids provide their own instruments so that doesn't have a cost. They spend the whole day in the school so there's no changing schools between lessons. Over a 6 hour day they take £792 per day for a single person. Even assuming a couple of hours prep (unlikely) then it's still incredibly healthy margins!

Reply

[-]

OldTomClough@reddit

I promise you they are not taking home £792 per day. Music teaching sounds like a great money spinner, but the reality is that most of us earn very little. I could go into detail, but instead I suggest you join a music teachers' group on Facebook or somewhere and enlighten yourself about the many and various pitfalls. It's a lovely job and for that reason I keep doing it - but I will never, ever be financially well off. The organisation I work for offers free ensemble tuition, thankfully. I do think music should be accessible. I also need to make a living.

Reply

[-]

Flowers330@reddit

Kids have their own drum kit that they bring to school? I doubt it is the same for all students and all instruments. If each teacher is at one school all day then they still need to get from their working base to that school and back. Do you think they pay rent and energy costs to hire an office base or do you think that is free too? How much do you think their website and leaflets cost? Company phone? Insurances? And after everything like that they still have to pay company taxes and pension contributions, national insurance for each staff member.

Reply

[-]

Greedy-Nature-826@reddit

Of course they don't go back to their base at the end of the day - they go to their home. One person would cover 5 schools, they can likely walk to 5 local schools! Having office space for such a business seems a rather unnecessary expense when a small home-office is likely more than sufficent. Leaflets for the school are about £10 for 1000 in bulk so maybe £25 a year tops. Website using wix is £9 a month and that covers all the schools they visit. You are massively over-estimating the costs involved in this - I wonder if you're involved in a similar business?

Reply

[-]

Flowers330@reddit

It's good to wonder and I can confirm that I am not! I am currently taking a break from employment (or, I am unemployed!), and I was previously a project manager. I think you are taking a lot for granted costs wise and though there will be some tutors who operate with probably very minimal costs on a self employed basis with a home base, it still costs a lot to meet basic requirements like safeguarding training and insurance required for schools.

Reply

[-]

MisterBounce@reddit

All that applies in one-to-one lessons too, and MU recommended rate is around £45 per hour. Tbh I don't know many private music teachers actually charging that for kids' lessons. Then there's the issue of tuition quality for a class of 6 compared to individual lessons and it looks rather poor value.

Reply

[-]

Ok-Flamingo2801@reddit

I had a look at what music lessons cost for comparison, average seems to be about £30 for an hour, but I think they are private lessons. CreateMusic has group lessons for £11.70 a week, so about what these lessons would cost.

Reply

[-]

MarzipanElephant@reddit

My son has started doing a rock band class that's about £44 a month (possibly the same thing OP is referencing) which is a group thing.

Reply

[-]

Dry_Contribution9254@reddit

It's possible to do it for much less. My music teacher managed to get our school to subsidise the Saturday music school. I think the cheapest was £30/term which included 30-60mins of orchestra/ensemble, 30mins of small class dedicated instrument teaching, 30mins of choir, 30mins of theory. Taking 3 instruments bumped it to ~£120/term. Each term was 10weeks. He didn't get paid to lose 8hrs of his Saturday. Most of the teachers he hired were guildhall/RCM/royal opera trained. Admittedly this was a good 15years ago, but this was in inner London. The prices have gone up since then, but not excessively

Reply

[-]

Parshath_@reddit

Valid. But it can be done in a less colourful way. By advertising directly to the children (possibly with enticing materials) they know what they are doing, brainwashing even. It can be a black-and-white boring leaflet given to the parents. Or at the start of the school year, the school can provide a list of extra clubs available to the parents. And then some will go, some won't, but at least the kids won't be directly targeted in advertising in what should be a school environment, not a Super Bowl TV screening.

Reply

[-]

UnacceptableUse@reddit

Brainwashing is a strong term. How is it brainwashing?

Reply

[-]

Various-Storage-31@reddit

I remember the army coming in to my school (in a very deprived northern town in the 90's where many families had been generational miners or steelworkers) and doing a very exciting assembly where they basically equated it to videogames. That deserves such strong terms, a leaflet about music lessons isn't quite the same..

Reply

[-]

thomasnash@reddit

The flip side is that often this is the cost of bringing companies in to run enrichment activities in schools that the budget wouldn't stretch to otherwise.

Reply

[-]

Curiousferrets@reddit

Exactly, it's all purposeful sell sell sell.

Reply

[-]

DamnitGravity@reddit

>brainwashing even I really hope you're speaking hyperbolically because otherwise I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Reply

[-]

Flowers330@reddit

I think things should be done in a colourful way myself, everything is so greige these days already. It's hard to get kids to go to clubs and camps without a fun looking leaflet.

Reply

[-]

Amarita_Sen@reddit

TIL the word greige. I hate it, thanks.

Reply

[-]

No_Height_2408@reddit

It is not just clubs and camps. We've had cinema adverts put in their hands to give us as they leave school for not remotely educational kids movies.

Reply

[-]

First-Golf-8341@reddit

“Greige” - first time I’ve heard that but I’m going to steal it, it’s so relevant for modern life lol.

Reply

[-]

Separate-Frame-7038@reddit

Unfairness is a fact of life and children need to know how to navigate those feelings. I wanted things my parents couldn't afford when I was younger and it did feel unfair that my friend's parents could afford it. My mum was very good about it, she didn't shame me for feeling that way or invalidate those feelings, she just empathized and let me know that it's ok to feel that way, and that she's sorry she couldn't afford it.

Reply

[-]

Flowers330@reddit

Yes, it is something everyone is going to see a lot more of with the cost of living situation and energy crisis. People have to teach kids what to expect in life and how to get more if they want it!

Reply

[-]

OnlyAppointment5819@reddit

Well yeah, unfairness is a fact of life, but as adults we should be doing our best to set up the education system such that some people's kids are not given a massive advantage over others'

Reply

[-]

Evening-Tour@reddit

Dont talk with compassion and sense on Reddit. You have to understand, that many people want the poors to stay poor, they don't really care about level playing fields.

Reply

[-]

Mysterious-Minute869@reddit

But not telling any pupils about opportunities only levels the playing field by removing opportunities from children, not by providing more opportunities.

Reply

[-]

Evening-Tour@reddit

Wonder if the solution could be to means test these opportunities, so that the cost is subsidised for some pupils based on socioeconomic considerations......nah in your head it's either unfair playing field or removal of opportunity from all, their is no middle ground. You're exactly the sort of person I was referencing, thanks for holding your hand up and self identifying.

Reply

[-]

Mysterious-Minute869@reddit

Why would you make up that about me? Means testing would be ideal, and my school currently subsidises school trips for pupil premium pupils (a system which is extremely flawed) and we and I do everything that I can to ensure that all pupils have the same opportunities. However, the world gets in the way, this is not possible right now and that has nothing to do with schools. So what should we do in the meantime time?

Reply

[-]

Evening-Tour@reddit

Are you crying? 😭😭😭 My reason would be the same as yours for making my position the removal of opportunity from all. Tell you what rather than me spoonfeeding you what to do, how about you come up with three practical things at school/local yourself, but also come up with three ways poorer pupils educational outcomes are negatively impacted if you don't do anything, for bonus points do three on the emotional and mental health outcomes. Or if you like continue as is, so that these issues remain generational as social mobility is dead and Victorian era levels of child poverty are back. In the face of things you seem to think education should be pay to win, because that's the way the world is, which means you must not be living in poverty......yet.

Reply

[-]

Mysterious-Minute869@reddit

You can keep your bonus points and I'll keep the wage and the gratefulness of children that I get paid for doing exactly the thing you struggled to just describe. Keep arguing online with people who are actually dedicate themselves to helping the poor. Keep insulting us when we get home from work after unpaid meeting after unpaid meeting with agencies to fight to give a child somewhere to sleep that isn't back with their abusive parent. Keep crying online and maybe the world will magically change. Keep up the good fight bro.

Reply

[-]

Evening-Tour@reddit

For someone dedicated, you seem fairly unsympathetic and dismissive of the outcomes. Have you considered that getting a wage for something doesn't default make you effective. Let's hope you aren't online lying, nobody would ever do that. If you aren't, then that saviour complex is pretty strong huh, if I had three nails and a hammer I could help you complete the look. Hit a nerve huh, you couldn't come up with even one eh, go cry in a latte

Reply

[-]

Daveddozey@reddit

So people who spend their money on a holiday or alcohol or Netflix are fine, but people who enjoy music can’t have lessons? Not everyone can afford everything, but almost everyone can afford something. What you choose is up to you.

Reply

[-]

Lt_Muffintoes@reddit

Why?

Reply

[-]

MrCrystalMighty@reddit

Cos the free education system is supposed to give all kids the same opportunities, not give rich kids a leg up

Reply

[-]

OnlyAppointment5819@reddit

Because kids don’t pick their parents

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

I'm getting downvoted in this thread for saying pretty much the same thing. Maybe because I'm slightly sarkier. But this is a topic I care deeply about. More than some parents do, apparently. Reading your comment is refreshing and I'm glad I'm not alone in having these views.

Reply

[-]

devandroid99@reddit

I think that's a topic for another thread mate.

Reply

[-]

OnlyAppointment5819@reddit

Not really, you can get some of these kinds of experiences for free if you go to a good school, because your parents happen to live in an upmarket catchment area. I know this because I went to one

Reply

[-]

Altruistic_Apple_422@reddit

People have to start removing certain classes from our society asap, not teach kids that unfairness is inherent.

Reply

[-]

Extra-Sound-1714@reddit

Truthfully that's fine if there are some things your family can't afford. But when you are the poor one and your parent can't afford anything it's pretty shit.

Reply

[-]

TachiH@reddit

The poorest family's will get the music lessons paid for, its the entire reason pupil premium exists.

Reply

[-]

Spare_Worldliness669@reddit

I have 2 kids who are PLAC, they both obviously get PP+ for their school and the eldest due to the time they joined care still gets PP. None of that funding goes to clubs or them specifically. The school is allowed to spend it to improve overall provision. Usually in the SEN and support areas. It doesn’t mean we get free violin lessons (thank god). The kids will get music lessons when they want them but we’ll be paying. We can afford to because the funding is because of who they are not how much I earn. Other kids with PP funding don’t have that luxury and are, in fact, not getting free music lessons.

Reply

[-]

Extra-Sound-1714@reddit

True. I was a very poor kid before any of that existed. Got free school meals but nothing else

Reply

[-]

callisstaa@reddit

There’s always a compromise. If your kid is interested in music then you can get them a cheap instrument off marketplace and sub to a music lesson channel on Youtube. Sure wealthier kids have it better but that’s not to say that your kid has to go without, just be creative.

Reply

[-]

minadequate@reddit

There’s also piano on Duolingo… which is free. To turn the adverts off on Duolingo you have to make a classroom and then join it, which will make it unlimited without adverts. Can be a bit tough on a small screen though.

Reply

[-]

MrCrystalMighty@reddit

When I was at school in the UK any kid who wanted to could get free music lessons and access to instruments they could loan

Reply

[-]

jlb8@reddit

You're not wrong, but at the same time the school should not be setting up a scrap in the car home without warning the parents.

Reply

[-]

louwyatt@reddit

How does it teach kids that they have to make choices where money is spent, when some kids can have it all, and others none. All it teaches kids is that some people get everything while others get almost nothing. Theres also a significant difference between letting kids know they exist and advertising something to kids.

Reply

[-]

footballmaths49@reddit

"All it teaches kids is that some people get everything while others get almost nothing." Yeah. That's how life works. Some people are richer than others.

Reply

[-]

northyj0e@reddit

>All it teaches kids is that some people get everything while others get almost nothing. That's still a pretty valuable life lesson!

Reply

[-]

louwyatt@reddit

I'm not sure that's how I'd want to teach my kid that life is unfair. You both want to teach them that life isn't fair and that they can do something about it. Rather than just teaching them, this is what it is, so suck it up and get over it.

Reply

[-]

GnaphaliumUliginosum@reddit

Get them drilled early - no war but the class war.

Reply

[-]

AliceMorgon@reddit

It’s only fair to let all the kids know they’re happening and not have a teacher making affordability judgements on who should get a leaflet. And then what happens when the kids who weren’t considered rich enough ask to see? Kids are going to have to learn they can’t have everything they want in life at some point. That’s sadly how it works. I was definitely at the poorer end of the spectrum at school. However I was also super talented musically and the local bar quietly got together and paid for me to have private lessons because until then all I had was choir. It got me a full music and academic scholarship to New York University for a masters out of Belfast College of Art. If the teacher had passed over me as “too poor” to be given a leaflet because no way would my parents be able to pay for it, that might never have happened.

Reply

[-]

Prudent-Level-7006@reddit

Once a Buddhist monk chatted to me for a bit, gave me a cool gold card thing, and I thought it was free and, he wanted money but I had none or said it, I felt jinked, and anyway the moral of the story is he let me have it for free 🤣 I think we both won really

Reply

[-]

ShiningCrawf@reddit

That wasn't a monk.

Reply

[-]

Prudent-Level-7006@reddit

I kept him zen, I stopped him from using religion for profit

Reply

[-]

BrieflyVerbose@reddit

Had a similar situation with my lad last week. There's a local church absolutely on its arse (as many are) down the road from where we live, it's advertised like a child's dun day and given leaflets out everywhere. I had to explain to my 6 year old that he won't be going because it's pretty much a recruitment drive to get children in through the door so they can get their hooks in them. Not happening to my child, that's for sure. He can wait until he's an adult and make his own choice if he wants to attend that nonsense. But yeah, hearing "no" is an important part of growing up. As annoying as it is, it does teach children that they don't always get what they want or ask for. That goes a long way in creating children that don't grow up to be spoiled.

Reply

[-]

LiliWenFach@reddit

I did the same when my daughter was invited to an easter event run by a friend heavily involved with a local church. This was despite him knowing I am a humanist. I think the family saw us as a recruitment challenge!

Reply

[-]

ALA02@reddit

The kids whose parents can afford it will feel superior in childhood, but later in life they’ll need more to feel happy. It all balances out and people get used to the lifestyle/social class they are in, and whether people are miserable or not rarely correlates to their social class or income (I’m not saying it can’t have an effect, but it can amongst a myriad of other factors)

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

No they'll get a headstart and leg up in life because when Timothy can put rugby captain and grade 8 piano on his CV when he's applying for entry level jobs, he'll get picked over Johnny from the council estate who was just happy to have a hot meal in the evening. Then when they apply for more senior roles Timothy will have more experience and on it goes. There's empirical evidence linking extracurriculars to academic and social access. Little Timmy won't actually be miserable later in life, because he'll have more financial freedom, choice and disposable income. Empirical data and evidence suggests that those with higher income report higher life satisfaction overall. And the reverse is true. Poverty is strongly linked to lower wellbeing.

Reply

[-]

No_Height_2408@reddit

It is so unethical though. We have had circus and cinema ads put in their hands as they leave school. I find it gross.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

That is gross. It's getting truly mercenary out there. The constant force feeding of add for stuff we don't truly want or need. I'm pregnant, and advertising is now pushing me to book an appointment for several shops, as a "consultation" for all the stuff I'll need for a baby. And I know half of it is crap I won't need. My pregnant friends and family have said as much. A lot of it is overpriced and appeals to parents anxieties or guilt. It's a capitalist hellscape out there.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Kinda not the point though. Kids go to school to be educated. It's purposefully an environment where all kids are treated equal (hence school uniforms). They shouldn't be a captive audience for people to advertise products. We are slowly being turned into a society with constant, constant advertising. And I wonder if they pay the school to advertise there. Id be pretty fuming if a private business was selling a service during my child's education time.

Reply

[-]

SuzLouA@reddit

wtf? Do you actually have a school age child? After school activities are a pretty common practice - indeed, schools include the clubs they offer as part of their marketing pitch. The kid isn’t coming home with an advert for like, a nightclub, they’re coming home with a flyer for the after school music club, something many parents will want to know about. There will probably also be a language club (our school does Spanish), a football club, at least one other sports club (ours do basketball and, rather randomly, golf), and a few arts clubs (ours do craft club, drama club, dance club etc). If the school doesn’t have staff members who are able to teach these, then they get in outside providers. Some of the clubs at our school are teacher-led (the simpler ones like Lego club or homework club), others are outside providers (the skill based ones like Spanish or the music lessons) - and none are free, because that’s not how childcare works.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

No, I'm pregnant with my first. However, I was a working class kid who did well at school, partly because of extra curriculars. I'm now a high income earner and pay a shit ton of tax. Tax that id hoped would, at least, be invested in children and their education. In fact, given my own experiences, I'm extremely passionate about education and early years learning. My issue isn't that there are extra curriculars clubs. Obviously. My issue is that the educational environment shouldn't be one where private companies can advertise to kids, who are a captive audience and without parents knowledge. School/extra curriculars isn't childcare either, wtf. **If parents want to know about it... Advertise it to the parents....obviously?**

Reply

[-]

SuzLouA@reddit

Extremely passionate about EYFS… but you don’t know anything about how schools work. Okay. Many extracurricular clubs are run by outside providers, who are private companies. Because all that tax you’ve been paying has been spent by governments that don’t give a flying fuck about public education - why should they? Their kids go to private school after all, so fuck the poors, let’s just use them for firewood. Anything where your children are cared for by someone who is not their parent is by definition childcare. It isn’t the primary purpose of education (whether that’s school or extracurriculars), but if you know anything about safeguarding, you would realise that the childcare aspect is one that schools take extremely seriously. Again, your naïveté and lack of knowledge in this subject is letting you down.

Reply

[-]

Flowers330@reddit

The school probably also has an outside caterer and advertises those services with a menu, and they probably also offer leaflets and displays advertising all sorts of other clubs ran by third parties at or near the school. There really is nothing to be fuming about in my opinion provided these services are well vetted and within standard prices, which this one sounds to be. Extra curriculars are part of education by the way, and everyone is not treated equal at schools they are generally treated equitably and according to their need, hence set groupings and exam accomodations.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

What has food got to do with a private company advertising during school.hours? Extra curriculars are part of education?! Oh my gosh thank you for clarifying. The points I'm making are flying over your head.

Reply

[-]

Extra-Sound-1714@reddit

Some kids where the money is spent is basic food and rent. The lesson kids learn is you can't have any nice things.

Reply

[-]

Extra_Actuary8244@reddit

Yeah I grew up so poor I was eating out of food banks and never did any extra curricular until I got to uni and paid for it myself and I was never bothered by my parents not being able to afford these things because I knew why they couldn’t and understood it’s not their fault. If you raise your kids right you won’t have to worry about these things because they’ll be empathetic and understanding and understand financial responsibility. Hiding things like this from them is actually way more damaging and will isolate them further.

Reply

[-]

HauntingCicada2630@reddit

This ☝️

Reply

[-]

Chrolan1988@reddit

Had the same problem with yo-yo’s last year. Wasteful purchase, all my daughters friends broke there ones and we refused to buy them, there were £15 each and being sold by the head teacher afterschool, meanwhile toys are banned. 1. Toys are ok, as long as the school sell them?? Explain that to a 6 yo 2. It’s very expensive, if you want a yo-yo we can buy you one for a lot less (not reasonable when her friends have that specific one. The challenge is all kids are marketed things all of the time, as an example, stores specifically put things in places that can be reached by toddlers so parents are obliged to buy them to prevent or stop the meltdown. It’s wrong and it’s avoidable but I don’t think it will ever change.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

It can change. Fast food adverts have gone before watershed

Reply

[-]

Chrolan1988@reddit

True, I guess that I seem a little defeatist by my last point, however, consumerism will take at least a century to no longer exist. Big brands will hold their weight for decades, e.g. Nike trainers, Northface coats or what ever the next fad will be, will still be desired by the children whose parents can’t justify or afford them. I imagine this maths club thing is probably not a bad thing, but the way in which it has been marketed is not fair and if that changes great! It doesn’t stop these things being desired though and actually teaching children to want and wait for things is a very good thing.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

So we need to resist this increased consumerism that the US is bring in with End Sage Capitalism. We are talking on a platform paid for by adverts. Schools should be there to counter this. Teach critical thinking. tech kids to ignore adverts and become media savvy. The desire is not innate but generated by these adverts. " teaching children to want " Is an appalling statement.

Reply

[-]

Chrolan1988@reddit

I have to disagree, I don’t think it is appalling. A child wanting more from themselves and their life is a good mindset to have. It drives internal growth and motivation. If everybody had everything they wanted nobody would do anything. It teaches perseverance and patience, it’s how world records are broken, it’s how art is crafted, it’s how books are published, it comes from a desire. A desire to do more, to share, to express, to want. Without the want, there is no action, no practice, no patience. If every child wanting nothing, we freeze as a civilisation. There would be nothing to strive for, nothing to aim for as it is already theirs. Think about it properly.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

I somehow think I an talking to a non human now geared to use any nonsense to prop up a consumerist hell hole of a world. "A child wanting more from themselves and their life is a good mindset to have." Sounds like the Greedy is Good speech. "It drives internal growth and motivation." Is that how you justify bullying people? "It teaches perseverance and patience," It teaches resentment nothing to do with perseverance and patience " it’s how art is crafted" Many artists die penniless creating great art. Push talented well connected pricks abound the the art world creating trash the general public hate. The same with books. I think you are confusing ambition with want. Want is desiring things you NEED. Ambition is achieving lives personal goals. Advertising shapes those goals into naked ambition and greed desiring things you don't NEED or even aspire. We need more people to live a simple life as the planet is running out of resources, Stuff GDP growth or the mantra of Maximizing Shareholder Value this has caused the polluted violent world of the USA.

Reply

[-]

shadow-season@reddit

You can't. The school will constantly distribute letters advertising school trips, clubs etc which cost money. I've frequently had to break the bad news my kids wouldn't be going on £1500+ ski trips for example, when their friends are. It's just a reality of school life.

Reply

[-]

guinea_pig_dad@reddit

Especially for the absurd prices when you can take them on an actual family holiday for that money.

Reply

[-]

aspecialunicorn@reddit

My sixth former informed me the trip to Japan that’s been highlighted constantly is going to cost four grand. She had the sense to immediately know that wasn’t happening at least!

Reply

[-]

ShapeZealousideal316@reddit

This is good parenting

Reply

[-]

salty-sigmar@reddit

Jesus christ. Alot of that must be insurance for under 18s but still.

Reply

[-]

georgialucy@reddit

That's such an insane price, I can't imagine many families being able to afford £4k. It would be nice if they had a more reasonable option, maybe something in the UK at least so kids wouldn't miss out on an experience away.

Reply

[-]

Tigermilk_@reddit

We could afford it, but I’d much rather go together as a family! Probably for a lot cheaper too. 😅 All we had at school was a week long residential about an hour up the road, everyone loved it!

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Ahhh but you get fined for taking a trip during school time.

Reply

[-]

footballmaths49@reddit

The term-time prices for holidays are so much lower that it's often cheaper to just go anyway and pay the fine than it is to wait until the summer holidays.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Its revenue generation and favours richer families.

Reply

[-]

Bustakrimes91@reddit

Isn’t that only in England though?

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

The others regions arent as stupid.

Reply

[-]

pm-me-animal-facts@reddit

£80 per child per parent in the borough I work in. That’s a lot cheaper than paying the prices of half term or summer holiday. If it saves you this money then fuck it, go and miss a week of school. It won’t affect their education too much over 13/14 years of schooling if it’s once every few years.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

My parents did this in the eighties before the fines. I found I learnt more in the holiday than at school, different cultures, languages. Historic sites. Different geology. It made be love Europe. No wonder politically they are clamping down on this.

Reply

[-]

JohnArcher965@reddit

Someone has to pay for the teachers.

Reply

[-]

michaelscottdundmiff@reddit

Had this recently with my son. 3.5k for a trip to America. Meals not included (expected £40 a day). Made him aware if I was spending 3.5k on a holiday (I never would) I would be going on that holiday. He is 17 and fully agreed it is a ridiculous price

Reply

[-]

ximina3@reddit

My school did a ski trip to Italy, and as an alternative for those who couldn't afford it there was a trip to Cadbury world. Then they had to make a third category for people who couldn't afford/didn't want to pay to go to Cadbury world either. It was basically just a free day in school playing rounders and the like. It didn't really make any of the non skiers feel any better about missing out.

Reply

[-]

Superspark76@reddit

I was a scout leader and ran a couple of BBQs and overnights on school grounds for groups like this. Helped the school out and acted like a recruitment drive for us.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Yet they insist on a school uniform so that kids are 'Equal' (Which has to be bought at a certain store that gives kick backs)

Reply

[-]

HumanBeing7396@reddit

Wagamama’s

Reply

[-]

bringthepuppiestome@reddit

We said a more reasonable option!

Reply

[-]

Superspark76@reddit

Five guys?

Reply

[-]

Remarkable_Bet_4131@reddit

Take em sledging when it snows

Reply

[-]

Eayauapa@reddit

Sledging works on mud too, if you're that way inclined

Reply

[-]

crankyandhangry@reddit

Yes, I'd imagine you need a fairly steep incline to sledge on mud.

Reply

[-]

Remarkable_Bet_4131@reddit

Mledging?

Reply

[-]

Weewoes@reddit

I dont travel, but how the fuck does it cost 4 grand?

Reply

[-]

aspecialunicorn@reddit

It’s part of the Japanese language IB. Some of the other IB subjects have done trips (some subjects went to a theatre, history went to Ypres), but this one is insane to me. Yes, it’s relevant to the subject, but I really can’t imagine many of the kids are doing it.

Reply

[-]

Mr06506@reddit

I went to South America with my school at 16, 20ish years ago now and I remember the cost was £3k even back then. And I paid almost every penny of it. About half from group fund raising, and the rest from lawn mowing and chopping firewood around my village. Not sure I'd want my kids doing that much distraction from schoolwork at that age, but the actual travel was an amazing opportunity that probably shaped me for the next few years.

Reply

[-]

dl064@reddit

I imagine a school going to Japan probably does so because many *will*.

Reply

[-]

Personal_Lab_484@reddit

That’s mental. I could get me and the wife out to Japan, a weeks hotel and food all whilst having a good time. A school will be group booking. Who the hell is pricing that?

Reply

[-]

Prior_Earth3261@reddit

It’s not a big deal missing out on trips. I could afford them but never went and it didn’t affect me at all.

Reply

[-]

Cyclesteffer@reddit

Put on some Anime and get some Manga from the library

Reply

[-]

Plus-Mulberry6761@reddit

Reminds me of high school, most of my friend group weren’t able to pay almost a grand for a weekend trip but there were a few that could and the one who could’ve gone easily said something along the lines of “nahh sounds boring anyway, who’d want to spend their money on that.” And I learned later through the years that she knew it was extortionate and made us feel better about saying no. Sometimes girl groups in HS aren’t so malicious

Reply

[-]

Plus-Mulberry6761@reddit

Thank you for the award kind stranger. ❤️. I double down on my view that girl groups can be amazing. We all have our hardships, but doesn’t everyone?

Reply

[-]

AugustCharisma@reddit

Thanks for sharing that.

Reply

[-]

StarSpotter74@reddit

These trips are expected to be fund driven by the child though. Part time job, baby sitting, car washing, fundraising, selling creative wares etc it's an opportunity for someone who's about to set foot into the "real world" to gain experience and push them out of their comfort zone

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

This guy is out of touch. The kid might already be working just to keep a roof over the family.

Reply

[-]

StarSpotter74@reddit

Not everyone is struggling to the point where 6th formers are working to support their family. It's a race to the bottom now. But the kid is in 6th form and if he wants something he'll have to find a way to pay for it or towards. I doubt the Japan trip has been sprung on them with a month's notice either. I know not everyone will be able to go but unfortunately, that's life. I can't afford two weeks in Disney in Florida, or a cruise, or a 30k car, or lots of things. I'm not out there saying other people shouldn't go because I can't. It's life.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

"Not everyone is struggling to the point where 6th formers are working to support their family." Are you saying fuck that minority then? "But the kid is in 6th form and if he wants something he'll have to find a way to pay for it or towards. " I can seriously see then dealing drugs to do that. At the very least abandoning their studytime heightening the inequality. It is your choice to buy those luxuries. The kid no choice but go to school. What if your employer wanted £2K off you to pay towards a work trip to Japan?

Reply

[-]

Rose_Of_Sanguine@reddit

A school trip to Japan?? We were lucky to get a few nights in Germany!

Reply

[-]

Fancy-Professor-7113@reddit

It's insane now, mine have been to Barcelona, Reykjavik and Paris in the past 2 years. And PGL near Slough (that only cost £50 less than Paris 😂).

Reply

[-]

The_Big_Man1@reddit

All we got was a trip to the lake district. Sounds cool, but the school was in the lake district.

Reply

[-]

dl064@reddit

My primary school went to the Irn Bru factory.

Reply

[-]

Rose_Of_Sanguine@reddit

Oh, that'd be disappointing.

Reply

[-]

PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit

We never even went abroad. I'm not sure many at my school would've been able to afford it if they'd charged for it. The longest trip we had was 3-4 days at an outdoor activity centre.

Reply

[-]

nintendofan2_0@reddit

I didn’t even get to go to Disneyland Paris lmao, a trip to Stratford upon Avon was all we got and I didn’t even go 🤣

Reply

[-]

Flowerofthesouth88@reddit

Did you go to The butterfly farm??

Reply

[-]

nintendofan2_0@reddit

I didn’t go as I wasn’t prepared to spend hours on a coach lol

Reply

[-]

Rose_Of_Sanguine@reddit

I can still smell the coach after many hours of kids and sandwiches.

Reply

[-]

nintendofan2_0@reddit

That’s why I never went on trips lol, no chance i’m getting on a coach for hours with the people I hate the most

Reply

[-]

Lord_Plum@reddit

Perhaps teaching is not the right profession for you if you hate kids so much...

Reply

[-]

nintendofan2_0@reddit

Haha no I meant when I was in school - people in my year especially were awful in my school, and bullying was a huge problem in my school.

Reply

[-]

Danielharris1260@reddit

I know Japan is very far and expensive but £4k does seem very expensive I would hope it was very extensive trip with a very packed itinerary for that price.

Reply

[-]

PetersMapProject@reddit

Japan has a reputation for being expensive but it really isn't these days. A main course in a touristy part of central Tokyo will only set you back £5-7 with no shopping around. The most we spent on a meal was £45 each - and that was a handmade sushi omakase with drinks included. A 265 mile journey on the bullet train was £65. Hotels are under £50 for something equivalent to a Premier Inn Hub. It's way cheaper than the UK. Not as cheap as somewhere like Vietnam, but it's still much cheaper than people think.

Reply

[-]

Manatsuu@reddit

Hotels aren’t *that* cheap imo. I mean it depends on where you’re going but in Tokyo the prices are pretty comparable to London tbh. Under £50 will be in like the bottom 1% priced places in Tokyo. Eating out and also general activities are without a doubt far cheaper though. And the food is just so much better.

Reply

[-]

audigex@reddit

It’s a school trip, as long as the hotel isn’t disgusting then they aren’t looking for 5 star luxury

Reply

[-]

Manatsuu@reddit

Well yeah I know but I’m just saying sub £50 hotels in Tokyo aren’t a thing. They cost more than that.

Reply

[-]

PetersMapProject@reddit

There's nothing wrong with a hostel. I had many a childhood holiday with my mum in hostels because that's all we could afford.

Reply

[-]

Manatsuu@reddit

I never said there is anything wrong with a hostel. I replied to someone saying you could stay in a hotel for sub £50. I stayed in hostels all the time when I travelled solo and loved it.

Reply

[-]

audigex@reddit

I stayed in several hostels with shared bathrooms in London for school trips, so yeah, absolutely I would recommend that. It seems ideal for a school trip? On one trip we stayed in Baden Powell House, the scout hostel at the time (now a conference centre I believe?) On another I don’t recall the name but it was definitely shared bathrooms and a hostel-like setup. No idea if it was actually a hostel or just a similar hotel

Reply

[-]

PetersMapProject@reddit

Tokyo can be a bit more expensive, but not massively so. I've just checked and I paid £41.75 a night in Osaka, inc breakfast, £65 a night in Kyoto and £99 a night in Shinjuku Tokyo. I'll confess it was slightly more than I remembered, but we could definitely have stayed in cheaper places, particularly if we stayed in a less fashionable area than Shinjuku.... and it's all still cheaper than the UK. The last time I paid under £50 for a hotel room in the UK, I was in Newport Pagnell services, just outside Milton Keynes, seriously regretting my life choices.

Reply

[-]

JavaRuby2000@reddit

I can get a hotel room in central London for £50 today or £49 if I'm willing to go to docklands. If I go out as far as Wembley I can get one for £35. Milton Keynes hub would be £29 today.

Reply

[-]

Greedy-Nature-826@reddit

The money usually covers a "fact finding" trip for the staff and then covers all the staff costs for the trip too.

Reply

[-]

Weewoes@reddit

If the school cant afford for tbe staff to go, then pick a different location lol. It seems so daft to charge so much to essentially pay for a holiday for them, sure its a stressful job and being in charge of the kids would be stressful but still.

Reply

[-]

ikariw@reddit

It's not a holiday for them, they are responsible for everyone's children. Imagine if your work said they needed you to go on a business trip but you had to pay for yourself because it's "essentially a holiday" despite the fact you'll be working the whole time you're there

Reply

[-]

Weewoes@reddit

Yes I did say at the end of my comment I suppose not really, I also never suggested they pay themselves, I said the school.

Reply

[-]

doc1442@reddit

Which should be using its fund for curricular activities, not subsidising extra curricular trips for students with rich parents

Reply

[-]

Weewoes@reddit

I agree but my point was charging obscene amounts from parents of some kids to pay for something the school cant afford is still crazy.

Reply

[-]

doc1442@reddit

As it should, why should they be expected to pay? They’re working.

Reply

[-]

reditcyclist@reddit

4k is nuts. Once you're there it's way cheaper than UK prices.

Reply

[-]

First_Folly@reddit

Especially at the moment. I'm going in June and the exchange rate is double what it was when I last went. I'm going to live like a king.

Reply

[-]

idris_elbows@reddit

Is it really? Hostels maybe, food was still expensive?

Reply

[-]

Usual-Sound-2962@reddit

It’s insurance costs. Organising a residential means using a third party company, almost everything has insurance added on to it, it’s insane. I tried to organise a coach to London from the North East a few years ago and it was going to work out at £700 per student. For one night, one meal and one activity. Travelling by coach. Absolutely insane. I didn’t go ahead with it because I couldnt justify the cost to families. Coach costs in general have gone through the roof, a simple trip up the road (35 mins) last month and the cheapest coach was £800. Crackers.

Reply

[-]

audigex@reddit

The prices are fucking mental My niece is going on a £2k trip to Norway. They’re camping. Actual camping in a tent I roughed out the same itinerary for myself and even with adult tickets, no group discounts, and single occupancy hotel rooms, I could get it down under a grand Someone’s making a fortune off this shit

Reply

[-]

Manatsuu@reddit

It is very cheap for some things. I’d say it’s comparable with the uk for train and hotel prices (which would make up the bulk of the cost tbh) but FAR cheaper for eating out and general activities.

Reply

[-]

CorpusCalossum@reddit

Teachers need their sake and sushi

Reply

[-]

hhfugrr3@reddit

Christ that's a bit different to my school trip to New York that somehow only cost £150... oh yeah I'm quite old, I remember not.

Reply

[-]

Grouchy_Offer5980@reddit

We had something similar at my sixth form it was a trip to New York I asked but understood that if I got told no to a 2000 pound trip I’d be completely fine with it I didn’t even want to go but i thought I’d try my luck

Reply

[-]

blancbones@reddit

4k are they going for the month,?

Reply

[-]

Successful_Buy3825@reddit

Is this a private school? I can’t even begin to imagine my comprehensive asking parents to stump up £4k for their kid to go on holiday.

Reply

[-]

pineappleshampoo@reddit

20yr ago I was sat in the hall with my parents and a bunch of other teens and parents, being presented to about a skiing trip. £2.5k it was. State school in a rough area. Obviously the trip didn’t even go ahead as nobody signed up. In contrast my youth orchestra put on annual tours, was about £300 all in for the week. I got to go on three of them!

Reply

[-]

Impressive_Sock1296@reddit

Wowww. My orchestra was £500 for a few nights in Wales.

Reply

[-]

aspecialunicorn@reddit

Not private, but it is a grammar school which might make a difference!

Reply

[-]

No-Parsnip563@reddit

I went to a private school (and a good one at that) and the furthest we went was Dunkirk!

Reply

[-]

Specialist_Emu7274@reddit

I went to a grammar school, and they had trips like that every year, more 3 grand, but pre-COVID, so everything was slightly less. I never went, but a lot of people did (one year my entire friendship group went). I did go on the (still overpriced) but 750 trips to Greece and Italy.

Reply

[-]

PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit

I don't get this at all. I organise trips for large groups (up to around 150 children at the moment). You benefit from economies of scale, you get school or young person discounts, etc. Even down to accommodation, you can often book exclusive use of hostels etc and it works out cheaper usually. Obviously activities on the trip cost money, but £4k is a pretty steep price. I sometimes wonder if schools operate some trips at a profit so they can buy equipment and supplies.

Reply

[-]

aspecialunicorn@reddit

My daughter explained they have a whole thing planned out, including travelling the country for Hiroshima, staying in Tokyo, etc. The most expensive sounding things, with lots of educational trips to temples and things. It’s in May as well, which might be off peak, I have no idea. She’s not going!

Reply

[-]

SuzLouA@reddit

I’d imagine it needs to be at least at a slight profit because presumably the staff will need to be paid to go on the trip, rather than paying - I would need an incentive to give up my own time off to spend two weeks 24/7 looking after other people’s kids.

Reply

[-]

PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit

Yes of course, but that's still a steep price.

Reply

[-]

TheHootOwlofDeath@reddit

I can't speak for all schools but when I used to run trips, if we had overcharged for any reason, we refunded the difference.

Reply

[-]

RoutineCloud5993@reddit

I went to Japan with my wife for less than that, and one of the flights was business class...

Reply

[-]

nintendofan2_0@reddit

Four fucking grand? I’d expect to be staying a month on a mansion by mount fuji for that

Reply

[-]

imtravelingalone@reddit

The thing with the school-"sponsored" trips is that the only sponsoring happening is parents collectively footing the bill for teachers/staff to go and "supervise." And then sponsoring some overpriced travel agency to plan the whole thing. And a surcharge for every tour/meal/activity the kids are taken on as it's a group thing requiring an extra guide or supervisor or other accommodation. And then all the insurances etc that the school has to pay so they can't be sued if a kid stubs a toe wanders off on their own and gets kidnapped. You're not just paying for your kid to go on a trip, you're paying for a million extras you wouldn't pay for if you just took the trip with your kid yourself.

Reply

[-]

SometimesaGirl-@reddit

4k!! When I was in school the school would never of put that much expectation on the parents. A few 100 quid tops. Think i left school in 1988. The governers of that school are idiots to green light that. And with this Iran nonsense going on the flight tickets might go up in price. Or you get rerouted well away from Russia/Iran adding extra expense on top of all that!

Reply

[-]

TomatoChomper7@reddit

These kinds of trip are (or were in my day) treated as fundraiser type things rather than expecting the parents to pay it all.

Reply

[-]

PetersMapProject@reddit

£4k!! We did 16 days around Japan last year and it came to about £2500 each all in - and that included some luxuries.

Reply

[-]

VardaElentari86@reddit

A 4k trip just sounds insane to me for a school to organise. Like why even do that. Our most exciting ones were France or Spain, and that was a looong coach trip from Scotland. Tended to cost about £400 in early 00s money.

Reply

[-]

bogusalt@reddit

Fuck me, took my family last year and that was less than 7k for 4 of us!

Reply

[-]

Time-Caterpillar4103@reddit

I remember my parents saying it wasn’t fair on children who couldn’t afford so they wouldn’t pay for it. I suspect we couldn’t afford it in hindsight.

Reply

[-]

bacon_cake@reddit

When I started sixth form I moved from my sinker school into a far better state school. 99% of the Sixth Form kids were those who already attended that school from Year 7 except for me and four or so of my mates. They did quite a few trips and every single kid went on them except for those of us who went to the other school because we all came from far poorer families.

Reply

[-]

a1acrity@reddit

Of course they can't, it's like people lived a different life when they were kids. We all got the book club, music club, trip to Switzerland leaflets. How does this turn to "my kid's being marketed to"?

Reply

[-]

Dragonogard549@reddit

you wish I was your child at school, I was already prepared not to go on that ski trip because I didn’t wanna be a burden like that

Reply

[-]

ReflexArch@reddit

Had a £4k trip to Nepal at my school! I was never in the ski trip group either though.

Reply

[-]

First-Golf-8341@reddit

Yes. My mum didn’t have much money when I was a child. In Year 8, I was given a leaflet about a trip to Germany and I really wanted to go but knew she couldn’t afford it so didn’t even bother to show her the letter. As it happened, she then found the letter in the recycling and felt so bad about it that she managed to find the money for me to go. But there were many other things that my classmates could go to that I couldn’t and I understood because she explained that she couldn’t afford it. I think it’s a really important thing to teach your child, and they will appreciate more the times when they do get to do something - I know I did.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Sod that reality.

Reply

[-]

DEADB33F@reddit

Once I was 15+ and started working part-time my folks used to try & match whatever I'd saved toward these sorts of extracurricular trips. Meant I got to go on a couple of ski trips in sixth form and go away on holidays with mates (ones whose parents were paying in full for them to go). I'd pay half myself, parents paid the other half and I'd also have to earn & save for any spending money I wanted to take. ...This usually meant we had less exciting family holidays as a result, but I guess my folks figured it was a sacrifice they were willing to make and a good way to encourage me to earn and save for things I wanted without me having to front the full cost while I was still studying.

Reply

[-]

MissionLet7301@reddit

The ones that frustrate me most are the volunteering trips that suggest the kids will be able to fund it themselves, as if a 16 year old is going to be able to whip up £3k from bake sales alone. The kids put in a lot of effort, raise maybe £500, then the parents are guilted into picking up the slack.

Reply

[-]

SweetBabyCheezas@reddit

Absolutely! I was like tour kids and while it did hurt, it did teach me how the world is, and if I want ski trips, I have to do what I can to earn money and go when I grow up. It was motivating in a sense, it's all about how parents frame it.

Reply

[-]

Sad_Emergency9479@reddit

Calling it "advertising" is a bit dramatic. Even I had this back at school. It's an extra that some people can choose to pay for, usually when the school does not have music classes and pays for a music teacher to come in. You are wanting it for free right? Yeah me too. Shame that's not how it works.

Reply

[-]

Sir_Roger_Crumpet@reddit

When I was at school, there were a number of free after-school activities available, including music lessons, chess clubs, and similar opportunities. The school also organised exchange trips abroad and other worthwhile experiences intended to broaden pupils’ horizons. Unfortunately, because I came from a council estate, those of us from the estate were never permitted to take part in these activities. When letters were handed out about clubs or trips, the teachers would simply pass over the pupils they knew lived on the estate, as though we were not meant to be included. I could have understood it if we had been disruptive or badly behaved, but that was not the case. We were not troublemakers; we were simply excluded as a matter of course, and it left a lasting impression of being judged before we had even been given a chance.

Reply

[-]

ShapeZealousideal316@reddit

Lmfao your kid understanding their poor isn’t illegal the absolute entitlement is killing me 😂😂😂😭 how is this legal? How are you a parent? wtf

Reply

[-]

Dubsndimes29@reddit

They just need to take it on the chin and accept they won't have everything they want. This was the same back in our day; other students & designer clothing or even particular brands/items of sportswear in a way being advertised to us. If mum said no then it's a no - no matter how badly we wished for it. Today we grow up and understand how difficult it was for a single parent on a small income to raise 3 kids and run the house. Now we have the money and none of that what we wished for back in the days even makes us want to live the moment we missed.

Reply

[-]

artynon@reddit

Ask the school if they have a bursary for kids whose parents have a limited income.

Reply

[-]

Unexpected-event1352@reddit

Talk to the organisers and ask them to advertise to adults instead, explain your situation as much as you feel appropriate but it’s kind of irrelevant because they are putting all the parents similarly under pressure, I wouldn’t like it. If you don’t get a good response approach the school leadership.

Reply

[-]

No1CassFan@reddit

If the club is good, that is a bargain.

Reply

[-]

Lyra_Irisfell@reddit

Am I the only one that wonders what a music club is doing costing £44 a month?

Reply

[-]

Suspicious-Water-973@reddit

Our school offer them but it’s done through an email to parents, not via the child.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Don't get me started on all the other commercialized shit that has crept into school life World Book Day. Fancy Proms with limousines. T Shirts with everyone signature on. Because we are multicultural. We have to buy commercial products for faiths we are not even part of rather than celebrate other cultures in a non commercial way. Schools are so strapped for cash that they pester kids on raising money and shame those from poor background that don';t make as much. [https://www.twinkl.co.uk/news/school-fun-isnt-free-ks1-digest](https://www.twinkl.co.uk/news/school-fun-isnt-free-ks1-digest) People aren't having kids as they don't want all this harassment.

Reply

[-]

Nettinonuts@reddit

It’s true, schools are underfunded. There’s no shame in saying no. If the kid really wants music lessons, start them off with a simple keyboard on their computer and get them to learn to read music. I’m sure there’s some great tutorials on youtube. If they show further interest, check out what’s available in your area for musical fun. A love of music is a gift for life and learning to read play and listen to it can boost academic performance and confidence.

Reply

[-]

the-nosey-one@reddit

Yes. Email and withdraw consent for her photo to be used

Reply

[-]

errobbie@reddit

Well if your kid sees you getting a new monitor and a new graphics card for your pc, maybe they believe that you can afford the £44 a month for them to join a music club.

Reply

[-]

Superb-General-2553@reddit (OP)

I don't think so because they don't know how much it costs or that it was to replace parts older than them.

Reply

[-]

Shpander@reddit

£44 pm is not much in this scheme of things. It's unaffordable if you struggle to buy basic necessities, but if you can afford these luxuries for yourself, you can afford enrichment to your kid. They'll probably give up on the club after a year or two anyway.

Reply

[-]

toon_84@reddit

All you've shown is you're either a bullshitter, fantasist, selfish or a bad parent. Or all 4

Reply

[-]

D5LLD@reddit

This iis actually so sad. Poor child.

Reply

[-]

TheOldEgg@reddit

How on earth do you know the child doesn't get plenty already, such drama queen. Parents could spend infinite amount of money on children but a line needs to be drawn for everyone. Get of your high horse.

Reply

[-]

Cakeo@reddit

They are making the point that you could afford it if you wanted to. If they are excited and want to go then that really makes you seem like a bit of a tit for this post.

Reply

[-]

Loud_Fisherman_5878@reddit

No kids, I assume?

Reply

[-]

TheBestBigAl@reddit

It does seem like the kind of thing my dad would have posted here 30 years ago if he could have: "My kid's school is coercing him into joining an after school computer club, and I can't afford it! This is disgusting!". "But you posted yesterday that you spent all your wages on booze, couldn't you just cut down on that a bit?" "Oh for fuck's sake, can't even enjoy myself these days..."

Reply

[-]

jlb8@reddit

Most parents can afford a club or two, next to no parents can afford all of the clubs. The school should not be setting up OP up for a fight on the drive home without warning them.

Reply

[-]

Cakeo@reddit

Are half of you just finding out what being a parent is?

Reply

[-]

ALA02@reddit

Nah mate it just shows you’re willing to spend several hundred on something for yourself while complaining your kid wants to do something for 40 quid a month that’ll likely be far, far better value for money anyway

Reply

[-]

likeamadcomet1914@reddit

do you guys really spend time looking at people’s post history on here who actually cares

Reply

[-]

rossco832@reddit

It takes less than 30 seconds. It’s not hacking the mainframe.

Reply

[-]

IdealLife4310@reddit

"It takes less than 30 seconds" Okay cool, takes a minute to rummage through my neighbours bins, the length of time something takes is irrelevent to how weird it is haha

Reply

[-]

rossco832@reddit

Is it weird though clicking on someone’s profile and seeing there post history? I think comparing it to going through your neighbours bins is weird. Where is the correlation there?

Reply

[-]

IdealLife4310@reddit

"Is it weird though clicking on someone’s profile and seeing there post history?" Yes, the vast majority or normal people never do that lmao

Reply

[-]

rossco832@reddit

Ending a sentence with lmao is inherently weirder. It is an open forum and op chooses to have his post history available. Lol lmao rofl

Reply

[-]

HenshinDictionary@reddit

I don't have to rummage through my neighbour's bins, I got home today to find it had fallen over and covered the front of my house. I'm currently hoping that, when he puts the bins out tonight, he will notice, and have the courtesy to clean it up, but given past history, I doubt it.

Reply

[-]

errobbie@reddit

it's weird reading public posts on social media? guess we're all weirdos

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Hello, welcome to reddit. It's full of petty losers. Are you new here?

Reply

[-]

Sea-Truth3636@reddit

Its reddit, everyone does that.

Reply

[-]

I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS@reddit

Got 'em.

Reply

[-]

Previous-Ad7618@reddit

I laughed so much at this. My daughter literally just asked me 10 minutes ago about piano lessons too. I said I'd think about it but I just told her yes 😅

Reply

[-]

J8YDG9RTT8N2TG74YS7A@reddit

My niece asked the same thing last year. Her mum gave the niece a keyboard she borrowed from a relative. And told the niece to look up basic lessons on YouTube. If she was still interested in doing it after a month she would pay for proper lessons. But if she gave up after 20 minutes it cost her nothing to give the keyboard back. She gave up. She didn't a few lessons for the first few days and never touched it again. Keyboard went back to relative.

Reply

[-]

teamcoosmic@reddit

To be fair, this one is a mixed bag. I know I genuinely *did* benefit from having structured music lessons and a teacher who would correct my mistakes on the go. It's not impossible to self-teach but I know for a fact that if I'd been told to self-teach guitar instead of going to lessons, I would've been struggling a week in and losing interest *fast*.

Reply

[-]

Previous-Ad7618@reddit

Ok

Reply

[-]

rossco832@reddit

We can’t afford a music club because daddy needs a curved monitor otherwise the 5060ti he just bought will be wasted. Fuck off OP with your fake outrage

Reply

[-]

ChelseaMourning@reddit

Have you not considered that OP budgeted for the new monitor, but not for an additional club for his child that he had no idea about, because you don’t expect stealth selling to kids in schools? Are we not to have nice things now just on the off chance that someone might try and sell our kid an after school club?

Reply

[-]

D0wnInAlbion@reddit

If £40 a month has a material impact on his budget, he can't afford the computer game equipment.

Reply

[-]

ChelseaMourning@reddit

Let’s say he saved for the monitor. Are you honestly saying that he’s supposed to not save for things for himself just incase his kid gets press ganged into joining an unnecessary music club that they could not have envisaged happening? For context, I’m a single parent and my kid’s shoes broke at school today, so I have to buy her new shoes 3 days before the end of term and a week before pay day. I could anticipate that happening, so while it’s going to be tight, I can pay for a new pair because it’s a necessity. However if she comes home tomorrow with a flier asking for £50 to join a club because someone has gone into the school and done the hard sell, no. I can’t afford that. Regardless of how he’s spent his money, he couldn’t have anticipated this expense.

Reply

[-]

TheBestBigAl@reddit

Unless OP was homeschooled, I don't think "after school activities" should be considered unanticipated. > an unnecessary music club I'm not musical in the slightest. I can't sing, dance, or play an instrument, and even I would say that a music club is more beneficial than detrimental in the grand scheme of "things your kid might ask for".

Reply

[-]

ChelseaMourning@reddit

I am musical and my daughter does formal music and acting exams every year. These after school clubs are completely useless. Most kids are there so their parents can get another hour of childcare. My daughter gave up all of her after school clubs because they were just full of kids pissing about who didn’t want to be there, while their parents thought they were learning a skill.

Reply

[-]

ElectricalInflation@reddit

These clubs are usually subsidised by the school and you’re given an instrument on loan. They’re aimed at kids who can’t afford normal music lessons. Mine wasn’t at all like the experience you’ve described

Reply

[-]

St2Crank@reddit

You’re right kids are at afterschool clubs because it’s childcare, that’s the point of them. Not sure why you’re saying it as a negative? Having activities to do gives them something fun to do whilst there, I work full time so my daughter needs to be in after school club every day. She joins the activity clubs two days a week, doing dancing and sports. Give her something fun to do and breaks up the monotony of being in the same after school club room every day. Really not sure why you think they’re so bad.

Reply

[-]

Brilliant_Quit4307@reddit

Not all after school clubs are useless. I think it completely depends on the club. I used to do drama after school from the ages of 4-12. At least 2 people from my drama class are world famous actors now. One was in game of thrones and the other was in a few different Netflix series. I definitely don't think that club was useless at all. Maybe the ones you went to were, but I only have good memories from the clubs I went to. My teacher was awesome. She would make us have little competitions to see who could learn their lines the quickest and I always think that she was a big part of the reason why I was so good at rote learning later in school.

Reply

[-]

rossco832@reddit

Shoes are a necessity. Curved 32 inch monitors are not. I don’t understand why that is hard for you to grasp. And I think your example is exactly fine. If this guy had said. He can’t afford it but actually couldn’t afford it then that’s fine. Not everyone can afford everything. He has also not purchased the monitor. So if like you say he has budgeted for it. He has the money there. So yes I think he should use it on his child rather than buying a monitor for himself. Even pay for one month. The kid might hate it. However the kid might love it. It’s worth more than any monitor he could buy. If the OP had said this kid is in every club going something has to give. Absolutely fair enough there’s only so much you can reasonably do. But the OP wanted a little back slap and faux outrage

Reply

[-]

ChelseaMourning@reddit

So it’s ok for companies to go into schools and sell to children then? Because their parents should have accounted for it? Guaranteed there are kids in that school whose parents absolutely cannot afford it, and they can’t afford the new shoes, or the school trip or whatever other expense has come up. It’s a shady selling tactic.

Reply

[-]

rossco832@reddit

So kids who can afford it shouldn’t be offered the opportunity because some kids can’t afford it? So we will deny all opportunities in a race to the bottom as to not upset children who cannot afford extra curricular activities? It absolutely sucks that there are children who cannot afford extra opportunities but I truly believe that this shouldn’t stop clubs happening. So. Yes I think it is ok.

Reply

[-]

ChelseaMourning@reddit

Sell to the adults, not the kids. Put it in an email. Slip a flier into their bag. Don’t send someone in to get them all engaged and excited, then slap up a literal pay wall, so they go home and beg to their parents for it.

Reply

[-]

rossco832@reddit

I think thats a fair comment but getting the kids engaged and excited is what will make the club a success. Emails to parents will probably largely go ignored. My sons primary school done death by 10000 emails so who knows what was missed.

Reply

[-]

ChelseaMourning@reddit

So you put fliers in bags, you put a message on the parents WhatsApp. Don’t do the hard sell to the kids when the parents aren’t present.

Reply

[-]

rossco832@reddit

What hard sell happened here though because I feel I missed that in OPs post ? The kid had a flier and was excited ?

Reply

[-]

ChelseaMourning@reddit

Most of the music clubs tend to go in and do an assembly to get the kids attention. That’s why they come home all excited.

Reply

[-]

D0wnInAlbion@reddit

Yes I am saying that. I would expect a parent living on such a tight budget to be engaging with his hobby in a budget friendly way. £1000 is a huge sum to spend on his hobby in their circumstances.

Reply

[-]

ChelseaMourning@reddit

I don’t disagree. I’d never spend that amount on myself anyway. However the issue here is that this club is an unplanned and unnecessary cost that was sold directly to the child, who is now guilt tripping the parent. It’s shady tactics and OP is right to be pissed off. And I say that as someone who’s kid does regular music and acting exams. These after school kids clubs are just glorified babysitting. They don’t actually learn anything, unless it’s an organised sport.

Reply

[-]

pajamakitten@reddit

> but not for an additional club for his child that he had no idea about, because you don’t expect stealth selling to kids in schools? Did you not get told about music lessons at school? This is pretty standard stuff for a school to tell kids about.

Reply

[-]

rossco832@reddit

Stealth selling to kids is such an extreme way to describe giving a child a leaflet with information and prices for a music club. We are allowed to have nice things. I didn’t say he wasn’t. However OP would like to justify it to himself and his child is up to him. I have children and i also have hobbies. However i also would prioritise something that the would get a lot out of like a music club over my golf or anything I would never in my life tell my child I can’t afford something and then order a massive parcel for myself.

Reply

[-]

idkanametbh@reddit

Telling OP to fuck off is definitely a lot more extreme tbh lol. As someone with kids surely you realise that there's endless things you can spend money on for your kids that'll be good for their future, right? I'm sure there's loads your kids don't have that they'd benefit from, whilst i'm sure you've spent 100s/1000s on yourself since having them that you didn't have to. Weird thread this.

Reply

[-]

rossco832@reddit

Of course there’s endless things you can spend on your kids. This isn’t what OP said though. He said he feels super bad because he can’t afford it. OP can afford it. He is just prioritising himself over the child. Also absolutely fine he can do what he likes. He’s on here wanting a slap on the back for it though. Acting like it’s a massive issue that his kid got a leaflet. My children don’t get everything they want I also never said that. What I wouldn’t do though is deny my child something due to finances and then treat myself.

Reply

[-]

idkanametbh@reddit

I would fully agree if he treated himself right after saying this, but he literally got that stuff over a month ago? It just all feels very harsh to me. I'm sure there's been times you've treated yourself to something & then a while later kid's come and wanted something and you couldn't get it right in that moment. It's literal normal adult life that happens to everyone. This thread feels like a fever dream

Reply

[-]

rossco832@reddit

He got a graphics card then started looking at monitors to compliment it. Then says he can’t afford £40 and starts questioning the legality of it. It’s beyond pathetic. The kid might have every other after school club going but he’s not mentioned this anywhere. The whole thing is disingenuous from the OP and everyone like yourself giving it all the whatabout this and whatabout that. The OP has said absolutely nothing. Everyone just trying to be the modern day hero online. Throughout my kids lives there has been budgets and sacrifices. That’s what you do as a parent. This being news to people is absolutely wild. If the guy had said. We budget this for the kids activities and he’s maxed out. Fair enough. But he didn’t. He said he cant afford it.

Reply

[-]

tiorzol@reddit

Yea fuck them kids

Reply

[-]

QwanNyu@reddit

So, you know OP? Just curious, before I cast judgement, what other out of school activities does OP pay for? Guessing you know as you managed to cast judgement. Seriously, they add pretty quickly.

Reply

[-]

rossco832@reddit

I’ve no idea. None of that is relevant to this discussion at all

Reply

[-]

likeamadcomet1914@reddit

not that deep mate

Reply

[-]

Brilliant_Quit4307@reddit

Hahahaha 🤣 and it's not even a normal pc monitor, it's a curved gaming monitor 😂

Reply

[-]

spicyzsurviving@reddit

Post history is a killer for faux outrage posts

Reply

[-]

SnooHabits8484@reddit

Good point, kid can go for a year and a half for the price of the graphics card you’re buying yourself OP. Might be time to grow up

Reply

[-]

idkanametbh@reddit

So if you have children you can never spend money on luxuries for yourself? This is such a weird take, you realise there's endless things you can buy for your children that will benefit them right?

Reply

[-]

stevecrox0914@reddit

You want your child to do well by giving them opportunities and so its a balance. OP's post history has them asking about a ~£400 monitor and a £500 graphics card. £44 pcm for music lessons is actually really cheap and OP's planned spend could cover 20 months of lessons. An AMD RX 580 will play all modern games and costs £150, similarly 32" 1080p HDMI monitors can be bought for £100. I used both until recently when I decieded there was nothing more important than upgrading my PC to silly specs.

Reply

[-]

I-Like-MTB@reddit

Yea this sums it up. Absolutely £400 on a graphics card is just how much a good graphics card is. But if the money is so tight that they can’t spend that on their kids as well, maybe even a £300 graphics card would suffice

Reply

[-]

idkanametbh@reddit

Not being able to currently afford £44/month for a new club doesn't mean the kid doesn't have loads of other cool stuff paid for though. That's what I'm confused by here - everyone's assuming OP is spending shit tons on himself & the kid gets fuck all. I suppose it is reddit and people love assuming the worst though.

Reply

[-]

Weewoes@reddit

That's not the point being made though.

Reply

[-]

idkanametbh@reddit

This just feels very reddit to me, you/others are instantly assuming OP basically neglects his child to the point they're having non music related opportunities paid for. That's what I'm confused by here - you have no idea yet you're instantly assuming the worst.

Reply

[-]

SpudFire@reddit

If OP is paying for other clubs and stuff for the kid, then that's what they answer with when telling them they can't do it. Or give them the option to drop one of their other things in favour of music club. There'd be no need for OP to feel 'super bad' when telling their kid they can't afford music club if they're already spending £100 a month on other clubs.

Reply

[-]

WildDemir@reddit

Even a Nintendo Switch is £250 and doesn't need a monitor.

Reply

[-]

SnooHabits8484@reddit

I mean, yes? I stopped buying luxuries for myself when my kids were born and I’ll probably start again when they finish uni.

Reply

[-]

Buddy-Matt@reddit

I don't think the issue is that OP wants to play games, but more the "I feel so guilty when I have to tell my kids I can't afford it". That's the sort of thing that you'd expect to hear from someone living on the breadline, and literally cannot afford it without forgoing food or other necessities. So when it turns out they're out buying expensive computing kit for themselves it leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Especially when you consider they could buy a different make of GPU or a slightly less ridiculously large monitor and easily save the difference. Clearly their guilt doesnt extend to waiting a month or two to buy their kit. All they had to do is say "were already spending xxx on clubs, and it's getting ridiculous" or something like that, and people would be more understanding. But no, they painted a picture of them being a poor pauper who can't afford nothin' to try and win over the audience, and its backfired spectacularly.

Reply

[-]

BrieflyVerbose@reddit

That's not what people are saying. But if you can't afford £45 quid a month then expand your child's experiences, opening them up to something new, something that could shape the rest of their life. Then you shouldn't be pissing money away on expensive hobbies for yourself. I've dropped all my expensive hobbies for now because my 6 year old loves swimming and begged me to start MMA. I've kept my own MMA gym membership, but .y gaming hobby and spending money on cars and motorbikes has gone a d replaced with a much cheaper hubby, which is darts. I've sacrificed so that my son can do something he's excited to do. I watched my uncle do it for my cousin. My uncle scraped together some money 30 years ago for a surprise second hand motorbike. He sacrificed to do this for my cousin, that opened him up on the path of finding what he loved to do. He became a .otorbike mechanic and found a lifelong passion, all because my uncle did what he did. You have a responsibility to open the world up for your child, and if you're spending money on yourself while denying things for your children in the process then you're not doing things correctly.

Reply

[-]

Beer-Milkshakes@reddit

Parents sacrifice. I've done it. I've only this year purchased a PS5 because my child needed firstly. Both my time and my cash. Now he is a little older we play on it together. I'm driving a 16 plate nanny mobile so we can go on good holidays and go on school trips. Saying you can't afford activities for your kid whilst buying £££ luxuries for yourself is revolting.

Reply

[-]

AlarmingAccident1325@reddit

So.. when growing up and your parents bought something nice for themselves, it means they should automatically just be giving you what you want? Anyway, nobody here knows how much OP spends on their kid, his household finance situation etc.. they just went snooping into his post history, saw he was buying a modest upgrade to his very old PC, put 1 + 1 together and decided he was a lousy parent that neglects their child. Classic reddit. All that instead of answering the actual question OP asked. Perhaps don't jump to conclusions, throw accusations around and remember the person you're replying to is a human being as well.

Reply

[-]

Loud_Fisherman_5878@reddit

Kid can learn that it’s a family and everyone gets a bit of the fun money spent on them. Sounds like the kid has been allowed to sign up for some things otherwise they wouldn’t even have asked.

Reply

[-]

DigitalStefan@reddit

Heartily agree. Music lessons versus PC gaming gear that is obsolete within 5 years. Overpriced PC gaming gear as well, if we’re dropping some truths. I should know. I bought a 4090 for £1700 a while back and just yesterday replaced it with an 9070XT for £650.

Reply

[-]

Correct-Industry549@reddit

This guy replaced an 8 year old gfx card for a £450 card, not really the same as replacing a £1700 last gen card is it lol

Reply

[-]

TheBestBigAl@reddit

Or: This guy replaced almost a year's worth of music club for their kid, with a £450 card. If OP wants nice things, they're welcome to do what they want. But don't then complain that your kid also wants nice things, that's part of being a parent. Quite frankly it's a pointless complaint in the first place. Even if they only advertised directly to the parents, what happens when one of the kid's friends tells them about how much fun the music club was after the first session? Now you still have to explain that you *can't afford it, but on top of that you have a kid who wonders why their classmates already knew about it.

Reply

[-]

Loud_Fisherman_5878@reddit

How do you know OP isn’t already giving his kid plenty of nice things already and just wants to draw a line somewhere? How are people implying that a parent shouldn’t say no until they themselves have given up every bit of spending on themselves?

Reply

[-]

idkanametbh@reddit

Are you the type of parent that gets by with some 20 year old car, charity shop clothes for yourself, never going to restaurants then? This is the definition of fake outrage lol. You can easily spend £100k+ a year on children to benefit them.

Reply

[-]

koloqial@reddit

Call an ambulance, but not for u/errobbie

Reply

[-]

BrieflyVerbose@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/7ribeu56f1rg1.jpeg?width=216&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b4c6fe152092ec57d39303bc81f5861155b946e

Reply

[-]

Alarmed-Cheetah-1221@reddit

Brutal 🤣

Reply

[-]

SaltyName8341@reddit

Stalker behaviour

Reply

[-]

Cakeo@reddit

It's reddit, your posts are public if you choose to make them and it's pointed out OP not being complete forthcoming about the situation.

Reply

[-]

tanoshimi@reddit

Lol, OP got rumbled. Though it is a sad reflection on how little people value the opportunity for children to make music together, given the overwhelming body of evidence to show how important it is for their confidence, concentration, and general wellbeing.

Reply

[-]

Acceptable_Plant_102@reddit

fucking weird.

Reply

[-]

Difficult-Age2723@reddit

Damn you really showed OP didn't you.

Reply

[-]

mrsilver76@reddit

This wouldn't be iRock would it? They came in and did a presentation at the school and then all the kids went home with a leaflet, presumably to pester parents. I wasn't very impressed with the idea that the children were being advertised to at school.

Reply

[-]

hamstertoybox@reddit

Rocksteady did the same at our school. Maybe a music club thing.

Reply

[-]

Sexy_Worm@reddit

Same here. My kids does the drums with these guys, they do a little concert every end of term for the parents and rhe rest of the school. The teacher then asks all the other little kids if they would like to play, and to ask their parents.. like wtf.

Reply

[-]

Sushiki@reddit

Tbh exposing a kid to instruments to see if it is in their interest is part of the point of school. Not being able to afford it is a sad reality, yet it is not the schools fault. If my kid finds an instrument they gel with, i can't promise shit, yet I'll look online, ask around, see if any learners instrument being sold 2nd hand or given away free online etc. If the school exposes kids to new experiences that's a good thing, although i don't get the whole 3rd party company stuff you are talking about, we just had a shitty stage and performed once a year for the rest of school and that is it. Are these companies trying to gaslight the kids or something? Trying to pull something funny that is?

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Cruelly teasing them with something they cannot afford. That is monstrous.

Reply

[-]

SuzLouA@reddit

How is the school meant to know what parents can and can’t afford? Should nobody be given the opportunity for an enriching activity they’d enjoy because one kid’s parents will have to say no??

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Do you work for one of these companies or something? You seem very invested in defending their advertising to kids.

Reply

[-]

Sushiki@reddit

Advertising is not inherently evil, and frankly your lack of understanding that nuance makes me worried you aren't acting in faith, take a few hours and think on it maybe? everything is a thought experiment waiting to happen.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Advertising is inherently evil. The worst products have the biggest advertising. If the product was good in itself then the customer would go to it.

Reply

[-]

Sushiki@reddit

There’s a gap in your reasoning, and somehow it’s carrying your entire argument. The idea that good products don’t need advertising only works if people already know they exist. In reality, they don’t. And if no one knows something exists, its quality doesn’t matter in the slightest. Also, treating the whole thing as inherently evil isn’t a serious position, it’s shallow and biased.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Assume they cant and only contact the parents is a good start.

Reply

[-]

Sushiki@reddit

The alternative is worse, fixing economic issues is something you address the government on. Schools shouldn't be held back because some of their students can't afford stuff, yet I also encourage anyone going in that career to work with families to try to help them afford stuff. I know i'd be willing, if able, to sacrifice some of my own money to help a kid afford an instrument, because that in itself teaches them some values that are important for society.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

The school has an option here though to address just the parents. The wider issues of funding gifted children or having affordable after school activities are separate ones.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Lots of employees of these scam companies and or their bots down voting.

Reply

[-]

RainbowDissent@reddit

Let's just not give any kids exposure to musical instruments in school then, I'm sure society will be better for it.

Reply

[-]

Snoo_said_no@reddit

What do you think about the service? I've just signed my kids up to start after Easter, so £88 a month for the two of them is a bit steep. But I've been trying to convince the older one to try a music lesson for a while and she's not keen on an after-school lesson on her own. However she's buzzing about this. I'm a bit disconcerted about the pride they advertise that they "don't include traditional music theory" like it's a selling point. But I might be a bit too much of a muso to appreciate their viewpoint .. I don't want them making out reading music is some unbreakable code too complex to grasp! Ones going to do the drums and one the keyboard, I'm not expecting them to progress like 1 on 1 actual lessons but I'm hoping it gets them a bit excited about the concept of learning an instrument - and vaguely introduced concepts like notes have letters which represent sounds and to understand rhythm/beat timing. In my perfect world I'm hoping they do 6 months of rocksteady then say that they want actual lessons!

Reply

[-]

Divgirl2@reddit

Not who you asked but I've recently cancelled rockateady. It felt like a scam. A whole year of weekly guitar 'lessons' and he didn't know a single note. It's great as a confidence builder but it is not music lessons. Even the year 6s who had been in rockateady for years couldn't really play anything recognisable.

Reply

[-]

jdsuperman@reddit

Rocksteady isn't about providing music lessons, it's about selling to the maximum number of parents and making money. They employ people who are shameless enough to be good at the second part, but not necessarily the first part.

Reply

[-]

milkypete82@reddit

I'm hoping to cancel it soon too. Daughter has been doing it for a year, she enjoys it and has her concert this week. After a year (and over £500) she can't read music, they are taught to play a few notes in sequence. I was surprised when she said they didn't read the music, I don't think they really improve over time. I think I could probably get her fortnightly private lessons for the same money... It's also in school time, she's probably not missing a huge amount but it's not like it's an after school activity for that cost.

Reply

[-]

Snoo_said_no@reddit

Yeah... I think that's my hesitation about it... Its a lot of money for what's effectively a music themed club. I'm going to give it 4 weeks that they offer their no quibble guarantee for and hopefully we'll either luck out with a good 'band leader', know it's rubbish and quit or have the kids enjoy it enough that they're more open to lesson-lessons

Reply

[-]

EvrytimeILeaveMyRoom@reddit

My kid plays drums in rocksteady and he's got really into it and plays along to other songs now. The setup works really well for him because it's a lot less formal and helps him play music with others. Only a positive experience here.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

I played two instruments from primary school age. If they don't teach music theory it's piss poor value for money. Do you live near a uni? Some students do tutelage one on one for not much money, and would be miles better. If you're not learning musical theory I don't see how you could possibly be learning how to play an instrument properly. The ensitification of Britain continues I guess.

Reply

[-]

Snoo_said_no@reddit

I think it's meant to be a selling point... "The kids arnt sat down struggling with sheet music and scales and are bored" But yeah that puts me off. However I've been trying to convince the oldest (just turned 7) to try a music lesson for a couple of years but she's not keen on the idea of it being one on one. Youngest is 4, she'd probably be fine as she's a little wrecking ball but it's more the older one who id particularly like to learn a bit. Not be a virtuoso or anything. I've been disappointed how little music is done in schools these days. Hopefully she'll get excited and want to learn properly.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

If you can find a choir, that can be a good way to access learning to music without it being one on one. I learned sight reading and music theory while singing. My piano teacher was involved with my choir and gave me discounted lessons because of the connection. Reading about the level of music education offered to kids on this sub is pretty depressing to me tbh. I learned to play two instruments while at primary school. I played as part of an orchestra and had group lessons. This seems to be totally outside the scope of schools now, and everyone seems fine with it. I grew up in northern Ireland, in an economically deprived area in the 90s. This wasn't an easy place to grow up in. So I have no idea how the UKs education system has gotten to a point where parents are paying extra for music lessons than don't even involve basic music theory.

Reply

[-]

Snoo_said_no@reddit

It is really sad. Growing up in a fairly rural/poor area in a tiny school we had recorder free for everyone including instrument loan. You could put your name on a list for an instrument lesson for free. I did Violin - you could borrow it and take it home but had to return it at the end of your lessons and if you messed about or didn't make much progress you were booted out of lessons - it was the 80s/early 90's. I was also 'percussion' in the orchestra ... No payment needed. I don't remember being taught other than in the orchestra practice. My brother did trumpet. There were school orchestras and choirs and class music lessons were scheduled weekly. Music lessons might be learning triangles or singing a song some weeks but there were regular use of 'proper' instruments as well. While most people couldn't 'read' music .. everyone was counting up lines and gaps, everyone knew basic concepts like "that ones one beat...that ones half a beat... The different shapes show us time the line their on means pitch... Even if they didn't have the words crotchet & quaver. My daughter's school has one "enrichment week" a term, during that week one day will be 'music' - and rocksteady who came in and done an assembly followed by a workshop is the first time she's touched an instrument in school. All other music lessons have been led by their regular teacher learning a song played through a speaker. Junior school (age 7-11) is much better but infants (up to age 7) this is sadly not unusual.

Reply

[-]

Usual-Sound-2962@reddit

I teach in a rural secondary school and we still run a system like this. We have a thriving brass band and lots of accomplished guitar and piano players because of it.

Reply

[-]

AtomicEdge@reddit

At least you didn't get Bebop.

Reply

[-]

Impressive_Ad2794@reddit

Bebop had the rhythm at least.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

The cancer of End Stage Capitalism is entering into our schools and turning us into America,

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Well and truly. And the majority of redditors commenting seem to be passively accepting their fate. God forbid they drag themselves away from watching Corrie in the evening and have a moan at their local MP.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Thank you. Someone who is not part of that industry.

Reply

[-]

Brief-Tax1901@reddit

My 4yo who is at nursery had a “taster session” with some football thing that happens during her day but costs extra. We said no and she didn’t seem bothered, 2 weeks in it turns out her and a few of the kids had to sit and watch whilst the others played and she got upset. I can’t explain to a 4yo the facts of life so I’ve had to stump up for the once a week sessions.

Reply

[-]

lapodufnal@reddit

That I think I would complain to the school about. That’s not fair at all to have the kids who don’t pay just sat watching, they should have a better provision that doesn’t feel like a punishment

Reply

[-]

bacon_cake@reddit

Yeah that's mad, my son's nursery does loads of extra-cost activities, but if you don't do them they still lay on a normal nursery day!!

Reply

[-]

PolarLocalCallingSvc@reddit

That's absolutely absurd and I'd be complaining.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

There should only be payment for extra curricular activities.

Reply

[-]

MonkeyHamlet@reddit

Under the National Plan for Musical Education, schools have an obligation to provide access education in a range of instruments. Most schools got rid of their music departments due to funding cuts, and the borough music services are cut to the bone, so companies like this allow them to fulfil their obligations at only the cost of the space. It’s a long way from ideal. Source - work for a music service.

Reply

[-]

Rosekernow@reddit

Oh music has always been like that though. Primary school in the late 90s had violins and keyboard but only if you paid. Even recorder club was after school and had a small fee. Then in secondary, it was 1 music lesson a week on shared keyboards / singing / one drum set so about 2 minutes of playing time and you could only do music GCSE if you were playing an instrument and had certain grade qualifications which weren’t offered in school. Music is an incredibly elitist thing to get into. Rich man’s game from the start.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

I learned two instruments in primary school in the 90s at no cost to my parents. I was loaned the instruments from the school's music dept. It's not always been like this. This is a result of austerity cuts.

Reply

[-]

RainbowDissent@reddit

Likewise, I had music lessons throughout primary and secondary school and it never cost my parents anything, possible they had to pay a few quid for the recorder when I was 5? I'm very grateful for that and still play instruments to this day, as an adult with a young son of my own.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

This is depressing. I was a kid that benefited from my school's music department in primary school. And sounds like a lot of these companies aren't even teaching music theory.

Reply

[-]

MonkeyHamlet@reddit

Some of them are fantastic and doing brilliant work. Others… less so. We’re now an independent charity offering discounted lessons to low income families and looked after kids, but it’s honestly a drop in the ocean.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

That's fantastic. Where are you based?

Reply

[-]

MonkeyHamlet@reddit

London

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Do you mind sharing any details? What kind of support do you need?

Reply

[-]

MonkeyHamlet@reddit

I’d prefer not to be more specific, but if you just google music trust + your area, or music service + your area, you’ll find likely find one near you. We’re all strapped for cash and dedicated supporters!

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Thanks I'll look into it!

Reply

[-]

RobotsVsLions@reddit

"At only the cost of space" and the collapse of music accessibility for poor kids and further entrenching the societal wide gatekeeping of the arts and entertainment.

Reply

[-]

MonkeyHamlet@reddit

Completely agree. Write to your MP.

Reply

[-]

Ayanhart@reddit

The school gets money from the company for renting out the space for lessons/performances. Same for other clubs like Karate/Gymnastics that use areas like the Hall after school. It also means kids are more likely to attend if they don't need additional transport to a destination. Pretty much all schools are running on a shoestring budget, so the extra couple hundred they can make from such are a big deal.

Reply

[-]

Hour-Estate-2962@reddit

To offer an alternative perspective, I work for a company that does this (not music). It's a subject that kids may not realise they are interested in or think is particularly fun so without the assembly, if parents asked their kids if they wanted to go, kids are much more likely to be like 'nah'. We do always say that it's something parents have to pay for so not all of you will be able to attend and it's up to your parents but I get that's hard to explain. I do see the parent perspective too but certainly in the case of my job, there is no commission involved (some schools do charge hire fees though) but the school request the assembly if numbers are low to encourage kids to join who may have a talent for this subject but not realise it's an interest of theirs. Of course, in an ideal world, these clubs would be free for all. If a child receives pupil premium money the parents can ask the school if it can be used to cover the cost of the club.

Reply

[-]

Who7Me7@reddit

We had this too! It's a fact of life that not everyone can afford to do everything but it's still a difficult conversation to have with an excited 6 year old when you know they'll be massively disappointed 😔

Reply

[-]

Mental_Body_5496@reddit

If schools were fully funded ...

Reply

[-]

clovenheart1066@reddit

You cant, the school gets money. If you have a child that asks relentlessly, give them a reasonable excuse. Like, we spent more on the car because it needed fixing. Or we're saving up for holiday/daytrip etc. Worse is when they have friends asking why dont you ever go on holiday, can yoh get tickets to taylor swift too? Sorry babe, we're in a much lower tax bracket than your bestie.

Reply

[-]

ganjafarmer01@reddit

erm when i was a child at school i couldn’t put the heating on because the wires in my house were all faulty and we couldn’t fix them as the share of the house was being disputed in my parents divorce (early 2000s so im not ancient)💀 im sure your kid will live without music lessons

Reply

[-]

Used-Ad9589@reddit

Honestly, hiding stuff from your child actually causes them more harm ultimately than not, they will also likely find out from another child anyway. You can ASK the school not to, but unless they do it on a 1 to 1 basis, chances are they tell the year or at least the form all at once anyway, they would have to exclude them from that segment at least and it would cause them potentially issues with their peers at school & they obviously would then ask anyone they know "what was that about?" I was in the same situation as your child in school, it's better to be aware than ask for things and not know it's beyond your situational ability currently and would cause extra stress (I was aware and NEVER asked re-trips abroad, music clubs, extra things that potentially cost money, etc

Reply

[-]

FreeAd2458@reddit

Kids should not be made aware of this before you though.

Reply

[-]

nyamina@reddit

In fairness, that isn't too bad, when you consider the benefits of a musical education.

Reply

[-]

SpiceFein@reddit

Tell them the truth or hustle. You expect the school to provide nothing for the kids or tell everyone individually?

Reply

[-]

I_ALWAYS_UPVOTE_CATS@reddit

How is this worse than your kid seeing an advert for the new iPhone on a bus stop? Of course it's legal. As others have said, maybe sell your fancy new monitor and buy your kid some music lessons.

Reply

[-]

AugustCharisma@reddit

In case this is helpful to anyone, I know in my area our local music centre/orchestra centre/instrument lessons organisation offers bursaries so they may take some children who wouldn’t normally pay for lessons/instrument rental and allow them to come. It may be worth asking.

Reply

[-]

sara61wilson@reddit

I agree with OP. Anything that costs over £5 should be passed to parents first. You can email the school so they reconsider how they share such information.

Reply

[-]

footballmaths49@reddit

It's a good life lesson for kids to learn that sometimes there will be things they want but can't have. They'll have to face that in adulthood anyway.

Reply

[-]

tanoshimi@reddit

What afterschool club were you proposing that costs less than £5 per month?

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

I was thinking £5 could break a parents budget in this economy. I know a school teacher who brings in food as the kids don't have enough to eat at home.

Reply

[-]

mo_tag@reddit

Cobalt mining club

Reply

[-]

omghiemma@reddit

Teach them they can't have everything they see or want

Reply

[-]

Mr_Bumcrest@reddit

It's your responsibility to parent your child. Learn to say no

Reply

[-]

ozyri@reddit

Oh, could fuck off already? Direct targeted advertising encouraged by schools to fucking 6-year-olds should be 100% illegal. How is that even controversial?

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

The replies on this sub have generally repulsed me. I'm pregnant with my first. Its depressing this is how the school landscape is, and how blithely accepting people are about the class divisions being established in schools. I was born working class, I'm now solidly middle class and well off. Id been naively hoping the huge volume of taxes I pay, went towards investment is the next generation, but apparently that's been outsourced too.

Reply

[-]

toon_84@reddit

You're in for a nasty shock then when your child is old enough to start asking for things. I've never heard of naval glazing but who are you going to blame when your child wants a certain toy because they've seen it in the shop or they want a certain type of trainer because their friends have them? And schools have always been like this - school trips, sports clubs, music clubs, dance, drama, the list goes on. I'm 41 and all of those were available when I was in school. I brought the information home and I was told yes or no. The no sometimes came with no explanation.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

That's not what I'm taking umbridge with though. I have no issue with kids expectations being managed. But a private company advertising to kids in school time isn't palatable to me. If you think it's acceptable, that's on you. It wasn't my experience growing up.

Reply

[-]

toon_84@reddit

Umbrage btw It's only done by private companies as schools don't have resources to fulfill all the clubs available. It's an easy solution for the school and it gives the kids an option for our of school education. Like I said the clubs have always been there, they're now run by different people.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

I understand that. I have my own thoughts on extra circulars like this being charged, but that's a separate issue. Ultimately your response doesn't address my gripe - which is advertising to children. If the clubs exist, and advertise to/reach out directly to parents, that's acceptable in my view. **But advertising to children isn't.** Children aren't always logical, or discerning. Their emotional maturity isn't developed enough to navigate sales pitches. It's why advertising aimed at kids has legal guidelines on what is, or isn't, allowed. The UK has been tightening regulation on advertising to kids for a long time, rightfully so. So it's alarming to me that schools don't seem to care about this, when UK policy does. Want to bring in an extra club to ensure kids have access to extra curriculars? Sure. But bring it to parents, so they can make an informed decision for their child.

Reply

[-]

toon_84@reddit

But my point is they've always been there so they have always been advertised. You're looking at it like they are sitting kids down and giving them some kind of timeshare hard sell. It's not. It's usually a leaflet in their bag, word of mouth or some kind of Comms on the portals. Way back when it would have been a notice up on the school notice board.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

I feel "things have always been this way" is a logical fallacy. As I already mentioned, the UK has gradually increased restrictions on advertising to children. So it seems strange that schools aren't consistent with this. Just because something has always been done a certain way doesn’t make it right, effective, or morally ok. The argument ignores evidence, outcomes, and reason. Harmful practices can persist simply due to habit or inertia, not because they are justified. A strong argument needs reasoning or evidence that shows the action is actually beneficial or necessary, not just historical precedent. In short: “We’ve always done it” is not proof it should continue, especially if it causes harm. So on the latter point, how is it exactly beneficial to advertise directly to children in schools, rather than appealing to their parents?

Reply

[-]

toon_84@reddit

Have you even been reading my replies or just skimming through and making it fit your own narrative? "I feel 'things have always been this way' is a logical falacy" - yes, there has always been after school clubs and school trips. It's got nothing to do with current restricions on advertising. "your arguement ignores evidence, outcomes, and reason" - what arguement? You're making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's not that deep. There's an after school club, a kid brings a leaflet home and then it's a discussion between child and parent. "Harmful practices" - now come on.......... "How is it beneficial to advertise directly to children" - 1. They aren't, they are sending out communciations via the kids. 2. Would you prefer somebody stood outside the gates at home time giving out leaflets? "None of the schools I attended had private companies giving me leaflets or sales pitches" - I've already covered this but schools had the budget and resource for after school clubs years ago, they now don't, so instead of kids going without they sub contract it out. Can you answer my original question at the start? What are you going to do when you child wants a certain toy? Blame the shop? What are you going to do when they want a certain pair of trainers? Blame their friend?

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

But this isn't a child wanting a toy, I already responded to this. This is a captive audience/child being advertised to, whether that be via a leaflet or otherwise. The UK restricts advertising with toys, broadcasters have reduced ads aimed at kids. I can limit and control the TV my child watches, so they aren't exposed to advertising without my knowledge while in my care. I can control whether my kid goes to a toy shop or not. I control what media they consume with adverts. I can control what access my child has to the internet. So it's a false equivalency and poor comparison. It doesn't translate across. A child walking past a billboard advertising trainers and toys isn't a captive audience for that advert, and they'd largely be viewing it while in the company of a parent or guardian while being exposed to that type of advertising. I can't control how my child is advertised to while they are in school. I can't control the products or services they are informed about while they are in school. Which is why it shouldn't be happening in schools, and why the material and advertising should be given to parents.

Reply

[-]

toon_84@reddit

It's the same as a child wanting a toy. Child watched Bluey --> Child sees Bluey toy --> Child asks for toy Child has interest in X --> Child gets given leaflet for X activity --> Child asks Child plays with toy at friends / relative --> child sees toy in the wild --> child asks for toy Friend or relative talks about club --> child is offered club --> child asks about club Children are stupid and they have massive FOMO, no amount of parenting is going to change that. If you truely believe that you can control what you child is subject to and what they want then you are in for a shock. Unless you live in some strange Topsy and Tim perfect world then they are going to want things that you dont even know existed. You really do need to get the whole forced advertisement thing out of your head as it doesn't work the way you think.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

No, it's not. Look I'm sorry your abstract thinking is this limited. I've clearly explained how it's different and what my issue is. And you're not grasping it. So either you're doing it on purpose or you're not very bright. And I cb engaging with either. Have a nice day though.

Reply

[-]

toon_84@reddit

"I can't work it out so I'm going to say the other person is stupid to make myself feel better". Standard deflection tactic. Surprised you haven't blocked me as well. Don't forget the irony of questioning my intelligence when I've pointed out one of your spelling mistakes, I could point out a few others. And then a nice little passive aggressive sign off. Love it.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

It's not deflection, I've attempted to respond to you several times. I have dyslexia. It's not passive aggressive. I was politely ending the interaction. What exactly are you hoping to achieve here? You're being rude, childish and petulant. Maybe take a good hard look at yourself? Since this is the behaviour of someone with children? As far as I'm concerned, this conversation is over. I won't be checking or responding to further replies.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

They are sitting kids down and advertising to them. Read some of the other comments.

Reply

[-]

SuzLouA@reddit

> Anyone reading this and thinking the kid should just suck it up, are missing the point because they've been too busy navel gazing. Or maybe we are actually commenting from a place of more knowledge than you, because we actually have school age kids, we know how children’s activities cost, and we also know how tight school budgets are? If you have an issue with the amount of money schools have to work with, and the fact that your taxes aren’t going to education as you wish they were, then that’s definitely a reasonable position (and something we should all be considering come election time). But acting like the schools are up to some nefarious scheme because they can’t afford to employ a full time music teacher anymore is absurd.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

School budgets shouldn't be this tight. How are you struggling so much to understand this? We are a developed economy, one of the richest nations in the world. It's appalling teachers are paying for school supplies, and that extra curriculars are now the reserve of the well off (to huge detriment to less well off kids, with huge impacts later on in their lives). I understand that schools are stretched, but ultimately I still don't consider advertising to kids as ethical, especially during school hours. Id have zero problem if they sent an email out to parents. But advertising to kids during their learning time is nefarious in my book, and I really wish you'd be more concerned on behalf of children. What are the real benefits exactly, of this being advertised to kids instead of parents? During school hours? Because you don't actually give any real substantial rationale for defending it. Your only real argument is that one is only qualified to comment if they have a school age child, which is a laughable position. Sure, maybe I don't have insight into daily realities. But there is an abundance of ignorant and disengaged parents out there who probably know less than I do. And since I'm pregnant with my first child, and a UK taxpayer, I have a vested interest regardless. Yours feels like a rather servile attitude, accepting of the status quo and very complacent. Why do you think this is?

Reply

[-]

SuzLouA@reddit

> School budgets shouldn't be this tight. How are you struggling so much to understand this? The first sensible thing you’ve said. No, they shouldn’t. Which is why I said the problem is the people deciding how much tax money is devoted to education. Again, that’s where your ire should be directed, not at schools who are trying to desperately eke a fulfilling curriculum out of a pathetic budget. Do you think I’m personally in charge of how much money schools get? They’d be fucking *dripping* in money if I was. The entire defence budget would get dumped into education and social care if I was in charge of it. But then, that’s because I care about things that don’t directly affect me. > I really wish you'd be more concerned on behalf of children. Since I’ve been talking about this, as well as raising money to address these shortfalls, since long before you got up the duff and decided you suddenly care about children instead of bragging about your income, you’ve got some front deciding how much I am or am not concerned on behalf of children. > Yours feels like a rather servile attitude, accepting of the status quo and very complacent. Why do you think this is? I dunno man, maybe the fact that my understanding is based in reality. But do tell me more about the view from your ivory tower.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

You're being offensive. Extremely offensive, and unjustifiably do. I'll leave it to you to think about why that is, it doesn't reflect well on your character.

Reply

[-]

ozyri@reddit

How is that an argument? 1. Schools don't have budgets so..... 2. They should literally blackmail parents to sign up for some shitty music club? That's your logic and solution for school funding?

Reply

[-]

Mr_Bumcrest@reddit

So what you're saying is that you are painfully naively about the world, and don't have any actual experience of the subject.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

No that's not what I'm saying.

Reply

[-]

ozyri@reddit

I'm 100% with you. Advertising to kids barely out of being toddlers is disgusting and people supporting this are predators.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

And by the sounds of, getting scammed in the process. People have written elsewhere this doesn't even cover music theory. This isn't a meaningful educational experience. It's childcare with musical instruments by the sound of things.

Reply

[-]

WeeklyPermission239@reddit

Well 99% of the replies on this thread are written by you 🤣 and are excessively combative, so perhaps a mirror...?

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Well they aren't, are they. Sorry but did you have anything meaningful to add to the conversation ooor?

Reply

[-]

notthatbluestuff@reddit

100% illegal 😭 I’m howling.

Reply

[-]

ozyri@reddit

Tell me you have no kids, without telling me you have no kids. Imagine getting a class of 10 year olds and showing them how cool carting or paintball is at low low low cost of £250/month and send them home to their parents. Would you love to be that parent? Do you think it's reasonable for schools to accomodate such advertising runs? Should we have ad breaks at every break now, then?

Reply

[-]

Mr_Bumcrest@reddit

£250 per month is a lot different that £44 per month, and music lesson is a lot different to paintball

Reply

[-]

ozyri@reddit

Fundamentally - it's not. It's a practice by predatory businesses to blackmail the parents through their kids. If you want to make a case, make a case to the people who pay for it, not manipulate them with kids having meltdowns/being disappointed/sad/pissed off at parents etc. They KNOW what they are doing. The KNOW that their conversion rate by exploiting kids is way higher than talking to parents. This cannot and should not be encouraged. I am literally one of those kids (I'm way over 40, this is not new), I was targeted by this bs when I was barely 7, and I apologised to my parents for it. I have not touched a piano in like 30 years or so. That in the long run cost a fucking fortune, which would have been spent better than 7 years of musical school (at least mine was a real one with proper music education and path to higher education and all).

Reply

[-]

Mr_Bumcrest@reddit

It's advertising a music club aimed at kids, not fucking cigarettes.

Reply

[-]

ozyri@reddit

Yes. To kids, not parents.

Reply

[-]

georgisaurusrekt@reddit

Personally I grew up doing music and it really enriched my life and taught me how to overcome challenges and work towards long term goals from a young age. I really recommend trying to find the money it’s worth its weight in gold for brain development

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Are you a music teacher?

Reply

[-]

georgisaurusrekt@reddit

Nope

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Are you in the after school activity business?

Reply

[-]

georgisaurusrekt@reddit

No. In the present day I work as a data scientist and prior to that I worked in the games industry as a sound designer

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

A brogrammer then wanting to bring fascism to the world.

Reply

[-]

georgisaurusrekt@reddit

Bro what is wrong with you lmao

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

\^\^\^\^ I rest my case.

Reply

[-]

georgisaurusrekt@reddit

Honest question, why are you so bitter? All I did was mention how beneficial music lessons were to my brain development during my youth

Reply

[-]

CatFoodBeerAndGlue@reddit

But daddy needs a new graphics card and curved monitor

Reply

[-]

Brave-Skin1724@reddit

Speak to school about the music lessons - there may be help available for families that can't afford them x

Reply

[-]

Gullible_School808@reddit

Have you got a tv? Have your kids ever been a shop? This is the real world.

Reply

[-]

5lutty5@reddit

“How is this legal?” That a school is offering extracurriculars or that you have to be a parent and explain the realities?

Reply

[-]

Any_Stock2125@reddit

These clubs used to be free.

Reply

[-]

parasoralophus@reddit

It's not exactly offering free spins on Ladbrokes online casino is it.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

It is. You more likely to get your money back on backing a horse than investing in music lessons for a music career.

Reply

[-]

SuzLouA@reddit

God forbid anyone ever does anything just to enjoy the hobby rather than figure out a way to monetise it 🙄

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

School isn't there for hobbies. It is there to give kids the skills to thrive in the adult world.

Reply

[-]

Professional_Bat132@reddit

So… learning to play music doesn’t teach kids any skills at all? Bless you.

Reply

[-]

parasoralophus@reddit

That seems like a very reductive way of looking at playing music.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

It's an archaic activity that does not equip children to cope with the 21st Century.

Reply

[-]

parasoralophus@reddit

You can't possibly be serious.

Reply

[-]

MrCleanWindows87@reddit

Oi, don't give them ideas

Reply

[-]

Formal_Evidence_4094@reddit

Probably better to let them learn you can't have everything in life

Reply

[-]

Adventurous_Pie6362@reddit

Music is an elite pursuit - musicians have financial backing and resources and spend many years at the university and conservatory. It isn't for everyone - most people just can't and shouldn't try to have a shot at that life. It's elitist and wrong that they should be promoting this in schools as an inherent good, over and above whatever's required for the national curriculum. You should raise it with the governors. Some of the comments here are terrible. At the end of the day, you are doing a much better job setting up your kid for the future by having new computer technologies in your house than by sending them to someone to learn the violin or piano. In the 80s and 90s pianos were a thing for a certain type of yuppy, a bit like brass barometers in the house or a mini-golf toy or stress balls. It was purely a working or middle class effort to join the upper class. However, it just doesn't work like that in real life, plus it doesn't do any inherent good for your kid unless they become a pro musician, which is not really an achievable goal for most people.

Reply

[-]

feathersmcgraw24601@reddit

Yeah there's famously never been any working class musicians

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

They didn't have music lessons. They just grabbed an instrument and played with it and became more creative as a result. Paul McCartney could not read music. Hey and that was in the good old days before Spotify mean even popular artists get zippo. artists Self Esteem said on this weeks Harry Hill's podcast that she has given up as there is no money in it and is doing acting instead and she was tipped for a Mercury prize. My friends are music teachers they are giving up and becoming normal teachers. Hey and all of this is before AI music that totally kills the industry. It's a complete waste of money.

Reply

[-]

feathersmcgraw24601@reddit

I'm pretty sure that at least some working class musicians will have had some music lessons. We're not talking about Grade eight violin, these are £10 a week sessions where 6 year olds who are enthusiastic about music can be shown the ropes of an instrument in a group setting with their friends. They're not on the way to becoming professional musicians (I agree on your points about that) they're just learning as a hobby. If you're a kid interested in music and your parents aren't in anyway musically inclined then it's difficult to get started. Yes, they can buy you a cheap guitar and leave you to it, but not everyone is Paul McCartney, some kids need a bit of direction

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Child benefit is £20.70 a week. Your proposing spending half that on music lessons. I propose have some violins, guitars as part of free normal music lessons and the kids with aptitude get a bursary for lessons. If the kid shows an interest they can take one home to practice.

Reply

[-]

feathersmcgraw24601@reddit

Yeah Child benefit isn't a family's only source of income though? And after essentials like food and heating etc, extra-curricular activities are exactly what it's there for. I don't understand why you're railing against the concept of extra curricular clubs for kids? Whether it's music, sport or arts and crafts they're generally recognised as a good thing, but they're not free

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Childcare, Food, Clothing, Uniform will already be putting you in the red. Taking your kid to the local council built swimming pool is £15 near me. A basic non fancy activity. People don't have the spare time with having to do second jobs or go through expensive DBS checks to volunteer to work with kids due to the over exaggerated stranger danger fears in the media. We therefore have to pay them and the companies make a profit. Then there is the new expensive kids activities. You cant just have one hobby. No Piano lessons, Football lessons, dance lessons. drama lessons. They all think they are going to be a celebrity. No cheap hobbies like train spotting, bird watching, pond dipping, sewing, card games, board games, gardening, rafting from rubbish, cycling around the street. No it's Theme parks every weekend, , trampoline parks, laser tag. theatre trips and monkey madness (What's wrong with climbing trees)

Reply

[-]

JeffBridgesTrophy@reddit

Music is not an elite pursuit. It's not the 1800's anymore.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

School music is which it's focus only on Classical music.

Reply

[-]

JeffBridgesTrophy@reddit

School music does not only focus on classical music.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

It is weighted that way.

Reply

[-]

faroffland@reddit

What a miserable perspective. Learning is pretty much always an ‘inherent good’ even if just to broaden your personal horizons or find something you enjoy as a hobby. Not everything needs to be ‘unless you become a pro there’s no point in doing it’, what a load of cobblers.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

90% of independent musicians in a 2022 survey reported not making a full-time living from music alone. We don't need musicians. Only 0.13% are in the profession. We need care workers 9% of the population and rising are doing that,. We need Languages like Chinese, Engineering, robotists. Data Centre staff. Civil engineering.

Reply

[-]

faroffland@reddit

Ok but you can still have those and have people who play music as a hobby? That’s my point. And many scientific studies show learning music/musical instruments as children and even adults positively impacts brain development. So all those jobs you want kids to do like being able to speak Chinese, engineering, robotics etc? They will be able to better learn them if they are alongside things like learning musical instruments. As I said before - learning is inherently good. If not for that specific skill then other skills too. The more you learn, the better equipped you are to learn other things too.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

I'm not against in school normal music lessons for that purpose. We were taking about paid extra curriculum classes. Too many parents are sold the idea their little Johnny will be the next Yehudi Menuhin and David Beckham with music and football classes. I know music teachers who have kids show up with no interest nor aptitude to lessons. On the other hand there are kids with genuine talent that is completely overlooked as they cannot afford lessons. They would much rather be teaching them under a bursary type scheme.

Reply

[-]

Adventurous_Pie6362@reddit

"Learning is pretty much always an ‘inherent good" No it isn't. It can be a waste of time and money and cognitive load, as in this case.

Reply

[-]

faroffland@reddit

Lol I can tell you have a very closed mind so there’s not much point us having a discussion about it.

Reply

[-]

MrCleanWindows87@reddit

\> Music is an elite pursuit Its really not these days.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Classical Music that is all they push in school, yes. Who plays violin these days. They just need a PC and sequencer. Maybe a guitar.

Reply

[-]

InspectorFlaky7290@reddit

"Music is an elite pursuit" Bollocks.

Reply

[-]

Party_Advantage_3733@reddit

Honest answer: No, there is nothing you can do. Hopeful/ ambitious answer: Run for school governer or head of the PTA and enforce a change in policy yourself.

Reply

[-]

slimboyslim9@reddit

Becoming a school governor entails a lot of effort, attending meetings once or twice a term and being involved if/when the school is inspected. Feels like a lot of work just to try and get a music teacher/company to change how they give out leaflets. Plus they’d be one voice in a committee of 7-10 people who might not agree. It’s a good thing to do if you have time, energy and ideas to help improve the school but please don’t see it as a back door to get one grievance addressed.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Tour right it would be the rich time rich parents. Forget single parents who this would affect more.

Reply

[-]

slimboyslim9@reddit

I’ve worked in schools. I can assure you schools put a lot of time and resources into looking out for children’s best interests, including, and *especially* those with single parents. My point is, this is not a reason to become a governor.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Parents are working multiple jobs and obviously have childcare responsibilities. The most vulnerable don't have a say.

Reply

[-]

slimboyslim9@reddit

I understand that. What makes you think schools aren’t considering the most vulnerable? Not being a school governor doesn’t in the slightest mean your voice isn’t heard. I think the comment I replied to is well-meaning but misses the point of the school governing body, which is more about holding the head accountable and supporting the school. It’s not a political pressure group or anything like that. Most heads are really receptive to parents simply sharing their concerns.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-60912316](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-60912316) I know parents who find they are cliquey pushy parents who want to improve their kids chances even at the expense of others. There are steps to stop this as this links show.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

"nah don't bother being a governor to try and improve your child's education involvement. It's too much work. Be apathetic and embrace your station in life. Come back down in the bucket here with me"

Reply

[-]

pajamakitten@reddit

> Come back down in the bucket here with me" Which is what OP is doing by acting as if we should prevent kids finding out about clubs their parents might not be able to afford.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

OP asked if his kid being advertised without his knowing was legal. Not. The. Same. Thing.

Reply

[-]

slimboyslim9@reddit

Literally pointing out that there’s a lot more to becoming a governor than trying to put a stop to a leaflet. And OP states this was at pickup from *after school club* which is probably something they are already paying for.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

They are working round the clock to afford a life as it is. It okay for rich middle class parents who have the time.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

They HAVE broken the law [https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/children-promotional-marketing.html](https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/children-promotional-marketing.html) [**Rule 5.4.2**](https://www.asa.org.uk/type/non_broadcast/code_section/05.html) requires that marketing communications must not include a direct appeal to children to buy an advertised product or persuade their parents or other adults to buy an advertised product for them

Reply

[-]

feathersmcgraw24601@reddit

That code means it can't including a call to action like "Bring your pocket money in and pay today!" or "Ask your mum to buy lessons today!", a direct appeal to buy. It also might include things like "All the cool kids go to schoolname music club". They're not breaking the law by putting a price at the bottom of a leaflet describing a service

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Isn't that what having a blinking assembly presentation about? This is totally not okay. OP needs to cite [**Rule 5.4.2**](https://www.asa.org.uk/type/non_broadcast/code_section/05.html) **.**

Reply

[-]

feathersmcgraw24601@reddit

Which assembly presentation? We're talking about a leaflet. They can cite it all they like, but unless the leaflet has a direct appeal printed on it, like "Ask your parent to buy this now" then they will look foolish.

Reply

[-]

LowM93@reddit

How is it legal? To pass out a leaflet?

Reply

[-]

Superb-General-2553@reddit (OP)

Sorry, I guess it wasn't clear, I'm not asking why it's legal to hand out a price of paper. I was asking why it's legal to advertise to children at school. My bad

Reply

[-]

DarthRick3rd@reddit

Gosh, advertising to children! Please make sure they never watch TV, a movie, go on the internet etc. They may be subject to more advertising!

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

[https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/children-promotional-marketing.html](https://www.asa.org.uk/advice-online/children-promotional-marketing.html) [**Rule 5.4.2**](https://www.asa.org.uk/type/non_broadcast/code_section/05.html) requires that marketing communications must not include a direct appeal to children to buy an advertised product or persuade their parents or other adults to buy an advertised product for them

Reply

[-]

DarthRick3rd@reddit

I'm aware of this law, yet children's toys are still advertised....

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

We should probably look into that.

Reply

[-]

DarthRick3rd@reddit

There's a whole science behind making children's TV and movies too. Since the 80's many objectives behind creating a show has been to sell merchandise.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

This needs looking into as well.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Lots of people who run these scam companies on here bullying you. Normal folk are all for what you said.

Reply

[-]

Grimdotdotdot@reddit

Right? Grow up, OP.

Reply

[-]

SuzCoffeeBean@reddit

Targeted advertising directly to children when they’re in school shouldn’t be allowed

Reply

[-]

Flowers330@reddit

It sounds like an after school club, of course it is okay to advertise it at the school.

Reply

[-]

boojes@reddit

Sounds like it's Rocksteady, which is a parent-chargable lesson during school hours. It was advertised at my kids' school by them doing an assembly demonstration and then handing out leaflets.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Tell your kid to shout out "I'm skipping this advert" and to walk out of assembly if they do this.

Reply

[-]

boojes@reddit

Too late, he's already been sucked in!

Reply

[-]

eyko@reddit

It's not okay to advertise to children, it's okay to advertise to parents.

Reply

[-]

Flowers330@reddit

And you'll have them rip down the displays of art, french, sports work and achievements from extra curriculars etc that are there to attract kids to the clubs? It's okay to advertise appropriately to children who are in the supervision of teachers.

Reply

[-]

boojes@reddit

There's a difference between those free or very cheap clubs, and £44 a month.

Reply

[-]

SuzLouA@reddit

Christ, what school do your kids go to that they can afford to offer free after school clubs but £44 is a huge amount of money?

Reply

[-]

boojes@reddit

The point is that advertising cheap extracurricular via posters (the scenario posed) is different to plonking kids down in front of a rock band and telling them to ask their parents if they can attend.

Reply

[-]

Flowers330@reddit

Most sports clubs will set you back similar or more and anything with materials or one or one tuition will too, it is a reasonable price even though it is unaffordable for some

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

There are not complaining about the price but how it was marketed heavily to all kids no matter whether they could afford it.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Lots of employees of those scam clubs down voting you there.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Get a grip would you

Reply

[-]

speedfox_uk@reddit

If it's an after school club it's one thing, but if it's a commercial business that's completely different. OP has left this somewhat ambiguous.

Reply

[-]

pancreaticallybroke@reddit

These days, more and more clubs are being run by private companies for profit. They come into the school, do a presentation about the club, get the kids all excited about it and then send them home with a leaflet. If the school is organising its own after school club, thats very different to a private company coming in and advertising to kids.

Reply

[-]

mynameisjodie@reddit

Omg yes this happened at our school footie bugs it's called they did a "free trial with kids who don't go to the club after school and then £98 for the year

Reply

[-]

LowM93@reddit

Why not? Should they not be having school trips either? Or, if they do, should they be having an after-school event with all parents in attendance to ask if anyone can go to Alton Towers? Life is full of disappointment. If you can't afford to send your kid somewhere, it's not ideal, but just have a conversation with them. They're still people.

Reply

[-]

BasisOk4268@reddit

You wouldn’t steal a car. You wouldn’t hand out a leaflet.

Reply

[-]

Leucurus@reddit

I *might*

Reply

[-]

neilm1000@reddit

>How is it legal? To pass out a leaflet? Do you think it should be illegal?

Reply

[-]

AwkwardSuit8670@reddit

your kid would have been excited if it was a leaflet for the potato club

Reply

[-]

Spiritual_Tie3348@reddit

They'll forget about music club when the £55 a month Drama club leaflet comes.

Reply

[-]

PlainAsTea@reddit

It’s called a life lesson. Something everyone has to do. We can’t always get what we want. It’s just how you explain it to them that matters.

Reply

[-]

CreZativity@reddit

That's messed up. I didn't grow up in the UK, but in my country advertising for things like that would never be done directly to kids, much less at school. If the school did offer any paid after school activities they'd be put in the parent letter or talked about in the parents only meetings.

Reply

[-]

LichenTheMood@reddit

Maybe if you spent more on your kid than on your PC gaming setup you could afford it? How's kiddo supposed to know you can't when they see you buying that for yourself?

Reply

[-]

Grenvallion@reddit

Probably not. Even if you made the teachers not give them a leaflet. Other kids would still get it and they would see it anyway and then wonder why they didn't get one too. Which would be worse. Just explain to your kid that you can't afford it. Some parents have more money than others.

Reply

[-]

CrabAppleBapple@reddit

I understand how shitty it is, but they'd hear it from other kids eventually anyway.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

They wont get their hopes up first though and most of the parents would have already said no at that stage.

Reply

[-]

CrabAppleBapple@reddit

>They wont get their hopes up first though They'll get their hopes up when other kids mention it and you've no idea how many parents would or wouldn't say no. No sense wasting energy on trying ban one vector of disappointment when there's another you have no control over. Better off just talking to your kid about expectations, the realities of what you can afford, that it's ok to not always get the same stuff as other kids etc etc

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

A. The kids would have the sales pitch. B. The parent would know about the start of the club first and say no. C. The kids would already know the parents have said no so wont be bragging about going.

Reply

[-]

shiroyagisan@reddit

why would this be illegal?

Reply

[-]

MyMaisie@reddit

Wow, some replies are downright nasty! I think the OP is fully justified asking their question and I agree that it's not appropriate for a school to hand children such a leaflet. The cost is outrageous and the school is relying on peer pressure and emotional blackmail to make money.

Reply

[-]

Acceptable_Plant_102@reddit

how do you know the cost is outrageous? what is offered in exchange for the monthly payment? maybe, the school is simply making students aware of a music club that they can join if it suits their interests and lifestyle.

Reply

[-]

princewinter@reddit

44 quid a month for anything is outrageous lol. Let alone an extra curricular club.

Reply

[-]

RetroRegretso@reddit

Anything?

Reply

[-]

princewinter@reddit

If it's not keeping you alive, yeah. Idk who's out here affording a 44 quid monthly subscription to anything.

Reply

[-]

RetroRegretso@reddit

Interesting. Thank you. How much should the price for a month of music lessons for a child be?

Reply

[-]

Mundo7@reddit

haha ok, for anything right, good poont

Reply

[-]

princewinter@reddit

For anything that isn't keeping you alive, yeah. Sorry, maybe we move in different circles where you can afford 44 quid a month on a subscription to something.

Reply

[-]

Acceptable_Plant_102@reddit

I appreciate some people can't afford anything but the bare essentials, but acting like £44 a month is a difficult cost to comprehend for music lessons, is just silly.

Reply

[-]

princewinter@reddit

Is it silly? I don't have kids and 44 quid a month would ruin me lol. Again, I'm sorry if I'm too poor to comprehend that's silly.

Reply

[-]

Acceptable_Plant_102@reddit

ah shuddup with that shit. everyone has different financial situation. how bout holidays? events? hobbies? you do understand that some people can afford these things? I'm not mega flush either, but that doesn't prevent me understanding the cost/value of things.

Reply

[-]

princewinter@reddit

Holy shit, being shamed for not being able to afford a spare 44 quid a month lol. Sorry man? I guess I'll try to scrape by harder, just for you.

Reply

[-]

Acceptable_Plant_102@reddit

what are you on about? I haven't shamed you at all. you're trying to play the victim as if I'm shaming you, which hasn't happened. you're either trolling, or you're refusing to read/comprehend the point. you're acting like you believe everyone has the same financial situation. just to be clear, no shame whatsoever on not being able to afford luxury expenses. you said a silly thing, now you're doubling down. it's no bigger than that.

Reply

[-]

polkadotska@reddit

If it's weekly music lessons, then that's £11 a lesson which sounds like a heavily subsidised cost (so, about right for additional, specialist lessons provided on school premises but that require extra payment). In the 90s I was paying £5 a lesson, so £11 sounds about right given 30 years of inflation.

Reply

[-]

princewinter@reddit

Jesus fuck I'm so glad I don't have kids.

Reply

[-]

Cold_Raspberry520@reddit

Op is spending a ton on themselves but won't on their kid

Reply

[-]

Loud_Fisherman_5878@reddit

You dont know that.

Reply

[-]

WeeklyPermission239@reddit

> The cost is outrageous and the school is relying on peer pressure and emotional blackmail to make money. Thanks for perfectly illustrating why I quit teaching. God forbid parents ever have to tell their children "no". I brought home flyers for all kinds of expensive activities as a kid. My parents took the opportunity to help me learn financial literacy - how bills need to be paid and the importance of saving. I'm really grateful for that as it has stuck with me into adulthood. I understood we couldn't afford everything and prioritised the activities I wanted to do most.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

I'm also glad you quit teaching. Id be living if my kid was being advertised to during school hours, and I have a high income household. That's not the values I'd want to instill in my kids at all.

Reply

[-]

Mundo7@reddit

maybe learn to teach your kids the value of money then

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Nothing to do with the value of money.

Reply

[-]

MathematicianOnly688@reddit

> I brought home flyers for all kinds of expensive activities as a kid. Really? I don’t remember that ever happening to me at school

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Me neither.

Reply

[-]

feathersmcgraw24601@reddit

We got scholastic book fair catalogues all the time in Primary School, or leaflets about community sports groups looking for players.

Reply

[-]

WeeklyPermission239@reddit

It was when external providers visited or ran activities

Reply

[-]

mrdibby@reddit

£11/week for a club that occupies your kid for likely at least an hour a week? Doesn't sound outrageous. Not to say OP isn't within their rights to be upset at their kid being encouraged to do things they can't afford.

Reply

[-]

mynameisjodie@reddit

You must be rich then because we wouldn't be able to afford that

Reply

[-]

mrdibby@reddit

I dunno. In London we pay £7 for a pint and we'd be hard pressed to find a takeaway meal for £11. I won't pretend I'm not doing alright but £11 for an hour at music club sounds like good price to me.

Reply

[-]

Snoo_said_no@reddit

If it's rocksteady it's 30 mins sessions with up to 9 others. £44 a month, but you pay Christmas and Easter and there's no lessons because the schools closed. You don't pay august. Their contract is you'll get 33 lessons across the year, which is 38 weeks. Then they'll offer make up lessons and if that can't be squeezed in then you'll get a refund. So I make it £16 ISH per half hour group session. I do think it's pretty expensive. Particularly as they are weirdly proud of it not including music theory or reading music and really sell up the confidence boosting team work side over the music side. I've just signed my kids up. Mostly as a soft introduction to music tuition lessons (or 1:1 or small group to learn and instrument/read music). My kids have been resistant to actual lessons. Rocksteady is basically a fun group club. Kids learn 1 song over a whole term and are in little bands of a couple of kids on each instrumentkeyboard/guitar/drums/vocals . It is expensive .. more expensive than my kids swimming lessons. But I think music is really important. The kids have dropped a cookery club and a gymnastics club as a bit of a token appreciation that this is a big club to do. The other clubs are about £5 for an hour so really it's a gesture not an actual help towards the cost. But as a parent I could have said no. As I did when a brownies leaflet came home in the bag... And to money for the bookfair and various other things.

Reply

[-]

PetersMapProject@reddit

There is a difference between overpriced, out of your budget, and more than you're willing to spend. Three very different scenarios.

Reply

[-]

SuzLouA@reddit

Very true. 50p is overpriced if we are talking about party bag level shit plastic toys, whereas hundreds of pounds for a piece of well crafted, hand made furniture is out of my budget but could be reasonably priced for what it is. Expensive things can still be good value - indeed, that’s how a lot of companies selling expensive things survive, by making sure they’re worth what the customer is paying.

Reply

[-]

hoolcolbery@reddit

Some people can afford things others can't. That's just life. Objectively, £11 a week for an hour of childcare is good value, when you consider the minimum wage is £12/ hr.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

They aren't presenting this sales pitch to parents though. They are presenting it to kids, during school hours. I'm pregnant with my first, but my expectations when I send my child to school is that they are going to a learning environment. Not being sent to be a captive audience for a privately run company using sales tactics.

Reply

[-]

mynameisjodie@reddit

But then if they are at after school club that's expensive as it is

Reply

[-]

ThrowRAkitty13@reddit

A spare £11 a week makes someone rich? That's a very reasonable price.

Reply

[-]

rainaftermoscow@reddit

It's less than a half hour of private music tuition tbf

Reply

[-]

ThrowRAkitty13@reddit

Where did it say in the post it was less than half an hour?

Reply

[-]

mrdibby@reddit

the commenter is highlighting music lessons are expensive and usually cost at least £20 for 45 mins

Reply

[-]

ThrowRAkitty13@reddit

Oh I see, they mean price is the equivalent to what less than half an hour of music practice elsewhere would cost. Apologies, I misunderstood.

Reply

[-]

rainaftermoscow@reddit

Yeah it's more like £20 minimum for a half hour of any classical instrument now. The people saying you must be rich to drop £11 a week on your kid are wild, I feel bad for them.

Reply

[-]

proud_traveler@reddit

This person didn't say it that it was not expensive. They said it was a reasonable price for what it is, which is true

Reply

[-]

mynameisjodie@reddit

Not reasonable when you don't have the money though

Reply

[-]

proud_traveler@reddit

Yes it is. The price of a good or service doesn't change depending on your personal circumstances

Reply

[-]

mynameisjodie@reddit

Feeding into kids heads to guilt parents isn't good

Reply

[-]

proud_traveler@reddit

I'm not contesting that the school advertising this is a bad thing. I'm saying that the price itself is fair. The issue is the way it's advertised.

Reply

[-]

QwanNyu@reddit

But it "is" expensive, when you also pay for swimming, martial arts, brownies, tennis, music lessons (Total could be about 200 - 350) or anything else adds up to a fair amount. Judging the parent when you have no idea what he already pays for seems overly harsh no? You just added another £11 quid a month.

Reply

[-]

Midnight7000@reddit

They're not nasty. It is cutting through the bullshit. 1) Presenting children with opportunities shouldn't be made illegal because some people can't afford it. 2) That in the OPs case it is a choice. Gaming isn't a cheap hobby. Less than a month ago, the OP was querying the benefits of buying a graphics card that would cost upwards of £500 along with replacing their monitor. There is this knee jerk reaction to try and defend anyone pleading poverty without understanding that in some situations it is insulting.

Reply

[-]

Splodge89@reddit

Agreed. The cost is outrageous for what it is. I know these things cost money to run, but nearly £100 for two kids is a lot. That puts a lot of food on the table in a struggling household. Shame on the school to be honest. And OP absolutely should be asking the school why they feel this is appropriate to ask the kids before the parents.

Reply

[-]

hoolcolbery@reddit

I'm not sure how £11/ week for an hour of childcare is "outrageous" when minimum wage is more than £12/hr

Reply

[-]

ThrowRAkitty13@reddit

Right! If you can't spare £11 a week to send your kids to something fun they want to do then you have some budgeting problems.

Reply

[-]

Hour-Estate-2962@reddit

How do you know what it is? All we know is the cost. Could be hourly tuition every day for all we know.

Reply

[-]

solnyshka@reddit

I mean, it's a reasonable price for what it is. One on one music lessons would cost a lot more. We're talking £44 a month vs £44 an hour. The people who work in these clubs need to eat too.

Reply

[-]

SuperAssistant2809@reddit

At my school they advertise ski trips costing more per child than my entire family holiday costs. This is to families on a quarter of my income. Senior teachers do not see the issue.

Reply

[-]

PlusRespond2485@reddit

I don't agree with aiming the advertising at children like this, however I do agree with the comments here saying that having to say no is part of being a parent.

Reply

[-]

johnno88888@reddit

We had this all the time when I was younger. My mum just told me she could afford it and I prob got upset once for the whole of 3 minute and moved on with my life colouring in or riding my bike

Reply

[-]

Andromidius@reddit

I wish schools wouldn't do that. Its intensely cruel to those less well off and causes a lot of bullying. £44 a month sounds expensive to me even as an adult. Absolutely ridiculous to expect a child's parents to pay that. I'm just going to say it bluntly - anything advertised in schools should be free to the students. And teach kids about money earlier without making it a 'school of hard knocks' lesson. Be kind and educational. Let kids know that being a child should be the best days of their lives.

Reply

[-]

bsc1974@reddit

I’m not sure offering extra curricular activities is advertising. But like anything you have a choice and can explain that to your kids. It’s no different to the super expensive birthday present they ask for (and if they haven’t yet they will!) and the conversation you have to tell them they can’t have that as it’s too much.

Reply

[-]

Prudent-Level-7006@reddit

UK really wants to be America in the worst fucking ways Hyper capitalism isn't culture or a personality

Reply

[-]

StereotypicallBarbie@reddit

Do they not have a school music club? My kids used to do music club in school 2 lunchtimes a week.. for free with one of the teachers. They’d have to give up a playtime for it..but still.. free!

Reply

[-]

Jolly-Outside6073@reddit

Raise it with the PTA.

Reply

[-]

IReallyLoveNifflers@reddit

Imagine thinking it's illegal to inform children about clubs in their area or at school 😂

Reply

[-]

72dk72@reddit

It's normal. Why would they not tell your child what is available and give them something to share with their parents. It's the parents job to educate them in life and to make them understand money and costs and that they can't have everything they want. As a parent I value these challenges and being able to explain the way the world is. Saying no is an important skill to master.

Reply

[-]

Delicious-Fee-6225@reddit

Are they good at music? Are you giving them a chance to learn elsewhere? Sounds like kids keen on making some tunes. £44 pcm ain’t much, that’s the same as a takeaway nowadays.

Reply

[-]

Grouchy_Offer5980@reddit

As a child there was a lot I couldn’t have that was similar to this due to both my parents being unable to work and having to rely solely upon benefits but genuinely just say no and explain why things being unfair in life is normal and it’s something that they should understand that they can’t have everything because you don’t have everything to give them unlike others

Reply

[-]

Prestigious_Carpet29@reddit

When I was a a kid in the 80's, money was right I had good parents, and no lack of love. I didn't go without essentials, but I knew that money was never spent frivolously. My parents didn't make a big thing of saying 'no', but I kind of knew the situation. School trips were fairly rare, one daytrip every couple of years, and my parents paid the nominal fee for those. Aged 10 or 11 I sort-of assumed it would be difficult for me to do a one-off 4-day residential trip in the UK, that most kids did. In hindsight I think my parents would have paid without too much fuss, but even age 10 or 11 I didn't want to pressure them.

Reply

[-]

caniuserealname@reddit

How is it legal? Lol, why wouldn't it be legal? No offence, I'm hardly in a different position myself, but perhaps you should consider getting a headstart teaching your child about money.

Reply

[-]

CoffeeIgnoramus@reddit

My honest opinion: You're essentially wanting to make it illegal for kids to find out about clubs. Because whether it is this leaflet, a teacher speaking about extracurricular or the other kids in class chatting, your kid will find out about the clubs and will either be excited or not. I think the issue you might be trying to avoid is having to have a difficult conversation with your child. But I'm afraid life won't stay on easy mode for your child forever and at some point, you can't shield them from wanting things they can't afford. I'm in no way saying it's easy or comfortable or fair. Life isn't fair. But you can't just ban extracurricular to even out the field. What you could do is ask the school whether they can also offer a more affordable activity/music lesson than that as your child would love to learn. I think that's a more positive way to face this awkward issue.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

OP isn't asking for extra curriculars to be banned. They've expressed discomfort at their kid being advertised services during their school hours, without parental knowledge.

Reply

[-]

pajamakitten@reddit

It's a flyer, not corporate propaganda.

Reply

[-]

Tao626@reddit

It happened 30+ years ago when I was in school, it happened before then. I don't understand how teachers are otherwise supposed to simultaneously inform and keep a secret of stuff like this. Maybe speak to all parents first and then seperate the classes into "going" and "not going" so those who aren't don't find out about those who are? OP is going to have to suck it up because they're going to have to have this conversation with their child regardless of when the kids are told about the thing they are or aren't doing.

Reply

[-]

JustJavi@reddit

Yeah, mine came home with a leaflet from church last week. F that.

Reply

[-]

A_RAVENOUS_BEAST@reddit

In your own comment history you describe how you have recently purchased expensive computing hardware and want to swap out a perfectly good still functional monitor with a newer, more expensive model. The hard truth is that you can afford it but have chosen not to. Kids are pretty clever, they know when what they are being told and... you know, *reality*, clash. This is the kind of thing that kids will remember until adulthood, but parents will forget before the month is over.

Reply

[-]

thebigperson8@reddit

Is it rock steady? I remember that at my little sisters school and the price seems familiar.

Reply

[-]

DoughnutHairy9943@reddit

Go ahead and sue someone then lol. Oh wait you won’t pay your lawyers and risk paying the other sides legal fees if you lose

Reply

[-]

TedBurns-3@reddit

This isn't new and has been happening for decades dude. School's send things home with the kids, you're not gonna stop it. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you just need to parent, teach your kid about the value of money.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

I'm in my 30s and never once did I have someone come in and advertise in this way to my during my school hours.

Reply

[-]

St2Crank@reddit

I’m in my 40’s and it happened all the time. Your school never had school trips or anything like that? I’d say you’re definitely in the minority.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

My school ran trips, sure. Lots I couldn't go on. But I never had a private company coming in and advertising to me with leaflets.

Reply

[-]

St2Crank@reddit

No one said it was a private company? It’s a music club in the school, that they’ve been given a leaflet for. Even if it is a private company it’s a company the school has picked to provide optional musical education. Just like I’m sure some of the school trips you went on were to places run by private companies.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Read the comments elsewhere. There are a ton of private companies offering this service, because schools have cut their music depts but still have an obligation to provide it to kids. Ergo they outsource it.

Reply

[-]

St2Crank@reddit

That’s just factually incorrect though. Schools can’t just stop teaching a subject and put it behind a paywall for private companies. This is extra-curricular.

Reply

[-]

TedBurns-3@reddit

The fuck you on about "advertising"?!! Stop trying to spin it

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

You seem very triggered and emotional about a rather innocuous statement? Everything ok at home?

Reply

[-]

ReddereDonum@reddit

I'm in my 30s and I did but it was companies selling books. My mum had to say no sometimes when the school gave us the catalogue for these companies and I asked for something. It's just a normal part of being a child. Books, music, crafts and things relating to childhood enrichment I don't mind the school signposting as long as it doesn't become excessive.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Yes the scholastic book fair. That's the only one I recall. And I think it's a slight outlier (though it's still criticised). Reading in childhood is fairly unique in that its one of the biggest indicators of better outcomes for children later in life . There's a direct link between kids whose parents read to them, and later academic achievement and earning potential in later life. The evidence is overwhelming. In short, reading (and encouraging children to read) is one of the single best things for kids. It can set them up for a lifetime. That's certainly true to my experience as well. So these huge, overwhelming benefits offset the slightly more insidious aspect of selling to kids in school. And having said that, even parents struggling can typically afford a one of cost for a book - whereas an ongoing commitment to a club or activity is slightly different (and much more expensive).

Reply

[-]

AdThat328@reddit

How is it legal? Did you go to school? Things like this happen all the time. It's for you to take and explain why they can or can't go to such things when the opportunity is presented.

Reply

[-]

Zehory@reddit

Sounds like Rocksteady, they’re very aggressive with their marketing. They offer schools a free assembly/ demo but then use the assembly as an advert to target children & ask them to pester their parents to sign them up. A number of parents complained to our kids school when this happened.

Reply

[-]

According-Summer-780@reddit

If I was a lottery winner I’d love to just pay for random kids to do music lessons, clubs etc😔

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Maybe make sure no kid goes to school hungry first, my friend is a teacher and sees this first hand.

Reply

[-]

According-Summer-780@reddit

Well i’ve got to win the lottery yet but I’ll also be sure to do that… and buy myself a home in the Algarve

Reply

[-]

Cumulus-Crafts@reddit

I really wanted karate lessons as a kid but my mum just said it straight- "we're too skint for that." and I got the message

Reply

[-]

Weewoes@reddit

Is it advertising? Its a school thing, you say to your kid they cant and explain why. It will suck, they will learn a valuable life lesson.

Reply

[-]

KungenBob@reddit

Why would you feel bad when you tell them you can afford it? Isn’t that a good thing?

Reply

[-]

Annika_Desai@reddit

I'm 43. I'm autistic. My bf introduced me to bluey. I wish I saw it sooner. Today I watched an episode where bluey gets £5 and struggles to know where to spend it and how. She learns that one cannot have everything and please everyone. Every episode has a lesson that's super helpful. Perhaps it will be good for your kid? I don't know bc i don't have kids but I wanted to share this in case it helps x

Reply

[-]

MaleficentMajima@reddit

£44 a month is very expensive for a after school club.

Reply

[-]

feathersmcgraw24601@reddit

If it's a weekly lesson it's a £11 a week which is cheap for music lessons

Reply

[-]

MaleficentMajima@reddit

I mean if it is a one to one music session to teach my lad a instrument I would pay £11 a week I'll give ya that.

Reply

[-]

SuzLouA@reddit

You’ll be incredibly lucky to find a music teacher to do one to one instruction for £11/lesson. Try twice that.

Reply

[-]

Opening_Succotash_95@reddit

More like three or four times that

Reply

[-]

Arsewhistle@reddit

That's pretty close to the standard for 20 minute music lessons at school.

Reply

[-]

KoalaUnlucky6513@reddit

I was just going to say that the price sounds pretty cheap. My daughter's in school singing lessons are £8 for 20 mins.

Reply

[-]

Sylvester88@reddit

Indeed. In fact it's so cheap I'd be worried that it's shit.

Reply

[-]

Fresh_Direction_7831@reddit

I know the company you are referring to and share tour concerns. I am a teacher and have complained directly to this company for how much they try to 'sell' their brand to the kids during their assemblies and have requested they tone it down. It is very in your face! They do not actually learn to play the instruments they select either. It is great for boosting confidence in front of an audience and the children do love it but musically, you are best enquiring about peripetetic lessons.

Reply

[-]

patrickco123@reddit

Wait until you see the £2000 ski trip that only the rich kids can go on

Reply

[-]

MissWiggleNjiggle1@reddit

If you’re on means tested benefits or on a certain amount of money a year you can ask the school for PPG (pupil premium grant) your child will get the music lesson for free. Email school and ask them PPG is available to you and if it extends to the music lessons available.

Reply

[-]

Opening_Succotash_95@reddit

OP is buying a £500+ graphics card and fancy monitor so I doubt he will be eligible

Reply

[-]

teapigsfan@reddit

If your child has PP it's often up to the discretion of the school how the funds are spent, so for example it might just mean a reduction in the cost of the lessons, not the full price. (Only adding this in case OP is eligible and pursuing this. Not all schools handle it the same)

Reply

[-]

MissWiggleNjiggle1@reddit

At my children’s school PPG is available to all children who are on free school dinners, parents on benefits or working parents on means tested benefits. I think OP should email their child’s school first. I know more than a few parents at my children’s school who get £250 a term music lessons for free through PPG.

Reply

[-]

teapigsfan@reddit

yep I agree, they should get in contact to see about eligibility. I just know that unfortunately, the guidelines are vague and it is essentially up to the school how they allocate it. It does not need to be spent specifically on one child. If there is a school with a high percentage of PP children, they're more likely to be able to do that with the money. A school with fewer PP children isn't as likely to afford it. There are schools in our town with literally hundreds of thousands of pounds more in their budget than ours simply due to their percentages.

Reply

[-]

CactusCastrator@reddit

Following this, OP if you're eligible and they say no, please DM me. Former teacher and now charity trustee. One of the explicit areas the Government measure is 'tackling non-academic barriers to academic success, such as difficulties with attendance, behaviour and social and emotional wellbeing' and there's research from the third sector to suggest music lessons support this. I can't guarantee that they'll change their mind if they do say no, but I can help you argue your corner if it comes to it.

Reply

[-]

Sea-Cardiologist436@reddit

Is this Rock Steady by any chance?

Reply

[-]

Puzzleheaded-Put-154@reddit

I think it's grim OP. I agree with you, it shouldn't be getting pushed if it's not something the school are offering.

Reply

[-]

BiscuitCrumbsInBed@reddit

My son goes to an after school football club on a friday. Every school holiday they give out leaflets for their holiday clubs. My son understands that the weekly club is expensive enough, so he understands that I just can't afford anything extra like that. I don't want him to worry about money but I try to not fib or lie to him. Another time he asked about joining another after school club but I explained if he did that, then he would have to swap it for football and then gave him time to make the decision. I wish I could pay for everything but I cant.

Reply

[-]

lordlycrust@reddit

You're allowed to feel bad for not buying things you can't afford, or even those you can. The kids will schedule get over it.

Reply

[-]

811545b2-4ff7-4041@reddit

Speak to the school. Isn't your child going to twig that all the other kids in the class are being given leaflets for clubs and they're being excluded?

Reply

[-]

Dazz316@reddit

OP needs to accept advertising is life. And yeah their kids that they often just can't have things. Nothing wrong with the schools doing optional activities and letting the kids and parents know about them. Utterly ridiculous post.

Reply

[-]

_Rvvers@reddit

Not every child goes to every club available. Besides, OP won’t be the only parent that can’t afford such an expense.

Reply

[-]

811545b2-4ff7-4041@reddit

I would personally take it as a wake up that my kid likes music, try to get hold of some kind of musical instrument and direct them to follow YouTube tutorials, or even try to do online tutorials together.

Reply

[-]

louwyatt@reddit

You get a kid hyped up about almost anything if you spend 20-30 minutes advertising something to them. It doesn't indicate they're interested in music, just indicates they've been advertised too

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Can confirm. I remember being obsessed with Wrigley's chewing gum when I was a kid because the advertisement was cool. I also walked around with a pencil pretending to smoke, because my mum watched a lot of old movies. Kids are super impressionable, and I'm pretty shocked this is happening in schools and everyone's so chill about it. I was the poor kid in school, and it wasn't a valuable life lesson, because the class system was beyond my understanding. Mostly I just felt lesser or left out Thankfully I wasn't being advertised to, during my educational hours, so I could focus on a good education and I'm now comfortably middle class and will be able to afford extra curriculars for my child. Nonetheless I'd be fuming if my kid was being advertised to in this way during school hours. It's dystopian and alarming that it's bring accepted as the norm. I'm an adult and I'm exhausted at the constant bombardment of products and services I don't really need or want being shoved down my throat. Can't imagine what it would be like to be a kid growing up in this consumerist hellsvapem

Reply

[-]

king_ofbhutan@reddit

calling it dystopian is a bit much no? its a leaflet mate music departments are often nonexistent in schools, so third parties like this are sometimes the only way to get those who are involved to go £44 / months is an incredible price. for what im assuming is weekly lessons, for what, 20-30 minutes? like the instrument is provided as well. im 99.99% the 2 minutes teachers may spend per month giving out leaflets at the end of the day doesnt impact their education at all. congrats that you are in a comfortable position in life to be able to afford extracurriculars. but, how would you know if the school offered them without occasional things like this? btw there is LITERALLY nothing to do with consumerism here. one leaflet a month or so is like barely anything when you put your noggin to it

Reply

[-]

louwyatt@reddit

>its a leaflet mate Leaflets are often used in propaganda quite effectively. You wouldn't be saying it's just a "leaflet" if it propaganda about something you dislike. >music departments are often nonexistent in schools, so third parties like this are sometimes the only way to get those who are involved to go Music departments are not nonexistent and are funded just fine in relation to other departments. >congrats that you are in a comfortable position in life to be able to afford extracurriculars. but, how would you know if the school offered them without occasional things like this? Litrally a million different ways that don't require advertising to children. Heck, you could just give the same leaflets to the parents. >btw there is LITERALLY nothing to do with consumerism here. one leaflet a month or so is like barely anything when you put your noggin to it You need to look up the definition if you don't think this is consumerism.

Reply

[-]

king_ofbhutan@reddit

im not sure theres many school activities i would class as propaganda but sure...although i DID do russia appreciation club in primary school...

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

You're missing the point.

Reply

[-]

SmokeStatus1593@reddit

This is such a good take. How would some kids know what’s out there or a possibility if only parents are informed?

Reply

[-]

811545b2-4ff7-4041@reddit

You can get a kids classic guitar for £25-50. You can get lessons online like this for free - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8F\_ncD85-o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8F_ncD85-o) Bosh. Instant hobby for less than the price of a months of that music club. You can probably pick one up for even less in a charity shop

Reply

[-]

HawkwardGames@reddit

That’s life. Are they never going to realise some kids go on holidays and they don’t, or get to do x, y and z and they don’t? Learning that not everyone gets everything is part of growing up.

Reply

[-]

HR_Specter@reddit

Why do they feel bad that you can afford it?

Reply

[-]

alillypie@reddit

You can't stop the school advertising. But you can be a parent and say no and explain why not. If you want to soften the blow you can ask what instrument your kid is interested in , purchase it second hand (if not too expensive) or borrow, and let them know that if they practice every day and learn of YouTube tutorials then maybe they can go to that club eventually. But they have to show commitment and perseverance and practice without being nagged by a parent

Reply

[-]

LadyMirkwood@reddit

I remember missing out on all sorts in the 80s and 90s, book fairs, trips, etc. it's not a new thing. And when my kids went in 10s, there were things we couldn't afford for them Schools will always be like this. The best you can do is have an honest but age appropriate chat with them about the budget and try and offer an alternative. Maybe look for other, cheaper clubs they could join or propose a day trip somewhere. Some kids might just be happy with a little bump in their pocket money to spend how they want.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

But were those school trips run by a private company advertising to you during educational hours? I grew up in the 90s and never experienced anything like this, plus enjoyed the added benefit of better subsidies back then for extra curriculars. I came from a working class household. This situation op has describe is a really concerning trend. It's not about learning about budgets and financial literacy. That analysis work if it was maybe a product that was a nice to have. But things like music, sports etc. aren't about wanting a product. They are about access. Access to additional opportunities, learning. The class divide is being cemented at school and it's pretty sickening. It's pretty sickening how complacent you all are about it too. Because when it comes to applying for jobs, or uni places - the kid with the grade 8 cello will look more stand out than the working class kid whose parents couldn't afford it. **And I say this as a higher earner. **I wouldn't be where I am today, had I not had access to subsidised extra curriculars activities**. It was a huge part of my social mobility. But now we are apparently all cool with that stagnating and becoming increasingly impossible because of crab/bucket mentality. I'm part of a demographic that pays the majority of tax income in this country. I'm pregnant with my first kid, so I had no idea schools were being run this way. I want my taxes to equalise the playing field, but apparently I'm an outlier. Because you're all too busy naval gazing cos you had it bad in the 80s too? Jesus Christ the next generation deserve better than this piss poor take.**

Reply

[-]

LadyMirkwood@reddit

Mate, I grew up in poverty and I'm not well off at all now, I'm not here coming with some bootstraps bullshit. I'm left wing as you can get. But I'm also a realist. Schools aren't going to stop and neither are companies trying to sell you and your kids expensive crap. We are in peak late stage capitalism. What you can have effect on immediately is how your kids adapt and overcome hardships and not having what others have. As they get older you can start having conversations about inequality and fairness. While we are working on change, kids need to be resilient and deal with the here and now. Giving them the tools to make and understand decisions weather tough times with their spirits and optimism in tact is something tangible and will stand them in good stead later in life. Kids do deserve better, but we don't live in a world where that's happening. So let's help them navigate these challenges as best we can

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

If you're suggesting this level of complacency and acceptance, I'm not sure you are that left wing you know. Respectfully, I disagree with your take.

Reply

[-]

LadyMirkwood@reddit

It's not about giving up. I quite clearly say 'while we are working on change' and talking about these issues with your children. Giving kids tools to handle difficulties isn't acceptance, tacit or otherwise. It's recognising they will have to navigate some circumstances beyond their initial control and to prepare them for that while giving them aspirations for a better world.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

That's fair

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

Even in the 80s it was a letter to the parent. We did know what it was but didn't get our hopes up before the inevitable No. Even then it was terrible with posh kids going on ski holidays.

Reply

[-]

HawkwardGames@reddit

Because you can’t afford it doesn’t mean others can’t. The school isn’t supposed to know every parent’s financial position, and handing out a leaflet for an optional club is hardly some legal outrage. Get a grip.

Reply

[-]

D_platts295@reddit

Don't you hate those parents who get their kids to school every morning, go to work, pick them up after work, take them to the park, swimming lessons, play center, make dinner with them, bath them, put them to bed, then have the audacity to save up some money to buy a pc to relax on before bed themselves instead of spending all their remaining money on more and more activities untill they physically cannot afford another. How dare they...

Reply

[-]

DarthRick3rd@reddit

Did you just buy yourself a PC?

Reply

[-]

D_platts295@reddit

I clicked reply on the wrong comment, now I look a little bit silly

Reply

[-]

Loud_Fisherman_5878@reddit

You don’t. I agree with your comment, and the person you replying to is also replying to random comments to make sure everyone knows about the heinous crime of op spending money on themselves.

Reply

[-]

pooinyourear@reddit

Goodness what an unhinged response. They shouldn’t be using the kids as a proxy to advertise through. It’s irresponsible and they know it. This is the modern world, they could easily inform parents via email, but intentionally choose not to in order to create the kind of situation OP is experiencing. These are private, for-profit companies and they are advertising through children at school. OP has every right to feel frustrated.

Reply

[-]

HawkwardGames@reddit

Ah yes, let’s take away opportunities from other children whose parents can afford it, just so nobody has to feel left out. Solid logic.

Reply

[-]

mailywhale@reddit

Such a stupid take. Advertising to kids is manipulative and gross, for the reason you well know... THEY HAVE NO MONEY Advertise to the parents

Reply

[-]

Flowers330@reddit

What are you shouting in caps about? It is a music lesson, for kids, at a school, calm down.

Reply

[-]

mailywhale@reddit

Suppose I just found it a bit ignorant. Leading even a few kids to disappointment by getting their hopes up, when perfectly reasonable ways to advertise just to the parents are available, is a bit rubbish in my book

Reply

[-]

Nafepaints@reddit

And not letting kids who may develop a lifelong love and talent for an instrument not find out about the instrument is a bit rubbish in my book.

Reply

[-]

mailywhale@reddit

Yeah 100%, it should be available to all kids

Reply

[-]

HawkwardGames@reddit

Funded by whom?

Reply

[-]

mailywhale@reddit

I think it’s reasonable that music lessons for kids are tax payer funded generally, or at least subsidised for low income families

Reply

[-]

HawkwardGames@reddit

Yeah, no. Optional private music clubs are not what taxpayers are there to fund. Subsidies for low income families is a separate argument, but that still doesn’t make handing out a leaflet some scandal.

Reply

[-]

mailywhale@reddit

A separate argument to the post yeah, but not to who I was replying to. Was replying to Nafepaints here about kids missing out because their families can’t afford the lessons, but I’ll nibble anyway. “Optional private music clubs are not what taxpayers are there to fund” - yes obviously, otherwise they wouldn’t be private, so your argument is unbeatable by semantics. More related to the post, I’m sorry but yeah I do think poor kids feeling shame and disappointment for being poor is something the schools should do as much as they can to combat, especially when it would be easy to do so. It’s not a massive scandal no, but it’s a bit rough, and I don’t think it’s fair to bulldoze OP for thinking so

Reply

[-]

HawkwardGames@reddit

Nobody’s saying kids feeling left out is a good thing. The issue is acting like a school sending home a leaflet for an optional club is some outrageous wrongdoing. Schools can try to be sensitive, sure. But they also can’t hide every paid activity from every child just in case someone can’t afford it. That’s not realistic, and it doesn’t make OP’s reaction any less over the top.

Reply

[-]

mailywhale@reddit

I don’t think OP said anything particularly outlandish, as it seem you do. At the end of the day, this is a private company advertising to kid’s parents, via the kids, via the school. I do think that’s a bit scummy

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

The sheer magnitude of ignorance on this thread is an argument for increased funding to schools in and of itself.

Reply

[-]

Arsewhistle@reddit

You can disagree with people without being rude about it

Reply

[-]

mailywhale@reddit

I don’t think I was anymore rude than they were

Reply

[-]

Arsewhistle@reddit

You've called them stupid and ignorant. What names have they called you then?

Reply

[-]

mailywhale@reddit

They told OP to get a grip and sarcastically commented on their solid logic. Are you saying you don’t consider this to be rude? I didn’t call them stupid or ignorant, I said their behaviour was. Important difference

Reply

[-]

pooinyourear@reddit

Yep, just send them an email like anyone else would, rather than trying to manipulate the kids. Unfortunately, plenty of people fall for it though, as evidenced by this sub.

Reply

[-]

Mundo7@reddit

“fall for it”.. or you know, have the common sense to talk to their child about what they can afford

Reply

[-]

mailywhale@reddit

It’s not mutually exclusive. You can teach your kids about your financial situation while also expecting them to schools to take minor steps to avoid disappointment and embarrassment. I don’t know if everyone in this thread was loaded at school lol

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

This is extracurricular and nothing to do with the school. They should no advertise to the kids.

Reply

[-]

king_ofbhutan@reddit

its BARELY advertising.

Reply

[-]

DarthRick3rd@reddit

God forbid OP turns the TV on or takes their kids to a movie....

Reply

[-]

Educational-Oil-1497@reddit

It’s ok. OP just bought a new monitor and 5060ti so they’ll have plenty of video games to play.

Reply

[-]

Shyaustenwriter@reddit

So write damn letter directly to the parents - don’t recruit the kids

Reply

[-]

jdsuperman@reddit

Rocksteady, I'll bet. Bunch of charlatans who are only interested in the hard sell. Very culty and miserable to work for.

Reply

[-]

Spirited-Bend-3046@reddit

Hi, is the club ran by school or a third party? I have previously complained to school about my child coming home with a leaflet for the circus visiting town, she understood it that she had been given a free ticket. Even if she had been given a free ticket there was significant cost for an accompanying adult (plus the cost of her ticket). Its not a local company and I know that school have previously refused to distribute leaflets of other school parents businesses, eg child dance classes. I complained to school that my child had been mislead and that distributing the leaflets wasnt beneficial to the childen it was actually immoral and it was also unfair when they had previously refused to do the same for parents at the school. School actually came back to me and agreed with me and said they would not do it again. Coincidentally the business received a fine for illegal advertising shortly after as they had been sticking posters up all over the place. It could be worth raising with school if it is a third party provider, there are other ways of communicating that information with you without going though a child, digital newsletter, school app etc. If it is school providing the service it is just unfortunately a no in this instance to your child.

Reply

[-]

KoorbB@reddit

I don’t think you can stop it quickly or maybe not even at all but you could email the school and ask that they introduce a policy to email parents with any news/offers/advertisements etc. It wouldn’t be that hard for them to do that, as I’m sure they email you about stuff already.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

If it were my child, I'd be livid. And Id probably be able to afford it, but that's beside the point. And I actually do care about the kids that couldn't afford it.

Reply

[-]

KoorbB@reddit

Yeah it just feels entirely unnecessary and actually very easy to make right. So many good reasons to bypass the children and go straight to the parents, one huge one being the kids that are less fortunate.

Reply

[-]

onlysigneduptoreply@reddit

Yeah we won't pay for rock steady either it's so much

Reply

[-]

LittleSadRufus@reddit

I agree it would be better if the information was shared direct with the parent instead, but at the same time criminalising the handing of information to a child more concerning so I'm pleased it remains legal all the same. Perhaps ask the school to be more sensitive in future? Although if any classmates get involved and enjoy it your child will still hear about it.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Did you read OPs post? He asked if it was legal. He didn't ask for it to be criminalised.

Reply

[-]

LittleSadRufus@reddit

I just imagined OP wanted it to be similar to (say) tobacco advertising aimed at children, which is criminalised. Is your contention that it should be a civil matter, and OP is asking for the right to sue the school for.handing our a leaflet? And that this makes sense?

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

I feel that's a slight reach. OP asked if it was legal to advertise to young children in this capacity. He hasn't flagged suing the school anywhere that I can see. And it's a fair question to ask, because there are stringent rules on advertising to kids already in place. My contention is that at a minimum, it's unethical. I don't think schools should be doing this regardless of legality. (though given that the ASA dictates that services cannot directly pressure children to buy or nag parents to buy, there's an arguement to be made the school/music group is on a bit of a knife edge here).

Reply

[-]

SuzLouA@reddit

I mean, he’s obviously not asking out of idle curiosity, is he. The implication is “is this legal, because it shouldn’t be”.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

And he's entitled to that opinion. It still doesn't mean he's making a call to arms for it to be legalised.

Reply

[-]

BngrsNMsh@reddit

If your child is looking to learn an instrument, there are charities that can help with funding depending on age etc. Some offer free lessons and others offer bursaries/grants as well as buying/loaning an instrument, so if your kid really wants to learn an instrument or wants to have lessons etc. have a google for: - Rocksteady - young sounds - music for all There maybe some local charities as well depending on where you live - search “music lessons for low income households” and see what comes up! Learning an instrument is great, and when I was learning in school it gave me something to focus on with intent, gave me a social life and it eventually developed into being a part of my career in many ways (I’m an AV tech). I think see what options are available to you, and offer an alternative to your child, some of these charities may also be able to fund this specific club if you’re eligible!

Reply

[-]

Birdman_of_Upminster@reddit

Is this a school-run club, or some commercial enterprise being promoted by the school on some quid pro quo basis? If it's the latter, then I agree, the school shouldn't be involved in marketing products to the kids for profit. Probably not illegal, but immoral IMHO.

Reply

[-]

EvrytimeILeaveMyRoom@reddit

Schools should have to. But budgets have been slashed and burned for decades. In order for them to try and provide varied clubs and extra activities they have to seek out external companies to use their space. It's shit, but it's apparently what the British public keep voting for.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Thank god there's some discernment and good sense in the comments.

Reply

[-]

Kahrii_x@reddit

Get a grip

Reply

[-]

Bubbly_North_2180@reddit

We had this issue at school - we lived in a single mam, free school meals kinda home. She laid down the law when we started secondary school that we could all choose one big trip to go on provided it was like under £500. This meant we could choose London, Paris or Spain trips but nothing like skiing or long haul. I remember appreciating our financial situation but also liking that she let us choose which trip we wanted to go on. She did similar with extra curricular stuff. Choose your hobbies - free stuff we could walk to we could fill our boots, paid hobbies we could have one and it had to be reasonable. No £50 a session type hobbies, more a couple of quid type things. I don’t think you’ll ever stop the adverts but you can reframe your child’s expectations. I promise they won’t feel as down and out as you expect and if anything, they’ll feel immense pride when they end up on the same stage as those with all the money thrown at them 😇

Reply

[-]

_xXBALT@reddit

shut up and give your kids opportunities to have somewhat interesting lives instead of spending all your money on your hobby

Reply

[-]

bigredsweatpants@reddit

My son does these lessons in Y1 and for what it’s worth, he loves it. He wanted to do it because his friend was in it so here we are. Now, he also does violin with a private teacher 1 on 1 in our local music school and that is the same price as the group lesson in school. I know it’s not what you asked so make that what you will.

Reply

[-]

Recent-Walrus-3366@reddit

It's extra curricular music lessons, hardly anything nefarious.

Reply

[-]

Whoosholliander@reddit

My partners daughter went on a trip that cost nearly £3000 to Namibia. I disagreed with it in general. Not everyone can afford trips like that! Insanity!

Reply

[-]

EitherFirefighter552@reddit

So because people can't nobody should have that opportunity. Got it.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

It creates division amongst the pupils. The whole point of the school uniform is to even them out.

Reply

[-]

EitherFirefighter552@reddit

What division? Perhaps the parents should explain to them why they can't afford it. Kids aren't stupid and it's impossible to protect children from the economic realities of life.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

You would have them cleaning chimneys with that attitude. The whole point of state schools is to give children an equal start in life. They need to understand but not be limited by the economic realities of life.

Reply

[-]

Whoosholliander@reddit

I knew someone was going to make that comment. I'm saying the trips should be easily accessible for everyone. 🙄

Reply

[-]

Flowerofthesouth88@reddit

Why Namibia?

Reply

[-]

Whoosholliander@reddit

No idea!

Reply

[-]

MrCleanWindows87@reddit

At that point you are paying for one of the teachers dream holiday

Reply

[-]

Whoosholliander@reddit

My other half is a teacher though and he earns every penny he gets.

Reply

[-]

cherrycoke3000@reddit

See my post somewhere in here. They brag about it.

Reply

[-]

Midnight7000@reddit

Learn to have those difficult conversations with your kid.

Reply

[-]

Divgirl2@reddit

To be fair I think I know which music group this is. They play a concert to the kids (usually the younger ones) and then they say things like 'who wants to be in a super cool band?' and 'who wants to be a rockstar' and make the kids put their hands up, then they tell the kids they need to give the leaflet to their parents and sign them up. They don't tell the kids it costs £50/month (including holidays). And they don't mention on the leaflet to parents that the kids won't learn any musical theory (at all) if you sign them up. It's a massive scam and pretty unfair to advertise in such a manipulative way to kids under the age of 8. But no, not illegal.

Reply

[-]

EvrytimeILeaveMyRoom@reddit

It's not a scam. My kids goes and he loves it. Playing music with his friends and learning to play drums in collaborative setting. They explicitly stated that it is learning how to play with others and not theory. Didn't feel like a scam and he's learning a lot from it.

Reply

[-]

Manbry@reddit

This is just a teaching moment. How do you react when you take your child food shopping and they see a chocolate or toy that they'd like but you can't afford? How do you navigate TV adverts at Christmas? Your child will probably get most things they NEED in life but not everything they WANT. Better to start learning now imo.

Reply

[-]

BitGreedy@reddit

Maybe the kid can watch their selfish daddy play his games instead.

Reply

[-]

stellfox-x@reddit

if you can provide the school name I'll look up their number for you

Reply

[-]

IsOkay_No@reddit

But if they never handed these leaflets out my child wouldn’t know that they did after school extra curricular activities

Reply

[-]

Dependent_Swordfish2@reddit

I feel this is one of these. You're technically not wrong on an emotional level, but in terms of feasibility, you're living in a bit of a dreamland Advertising is a part of life, and that includes everyone, even kids, who will be targeted by large corporate conglomerates, small businesses, community groups, charities, and their schools. There is a level to what is acceptable to advertise towards children and where it can be advertised. In this case, an extracurricular activity run by the school is not unacceptable or inappropriate. The sad fact is other parents will be able to afford it and will want to know about it, and there is nothing you can do to remedy that, unfortunately. But you can control how you explain this to your child, manage your child's expectations, and in general turn this into a life experience for your child learning about finances ect

Reply

[-]

Suitable-Novel1801@reddit

If it was irock don't feel bad. We paid for our child to do it and at the end show they were just tapping drums. They then put the price up by £5 and we were out.

Reply

[-]

eleanornatasha@reddit

No, there’s not really anything you can do. You could possibly request that these opportunities are presented via email to the parents instead of handed out as flyers to the children, but that comes with its own downsides: the students would probably hear about it from their classmates regardless of if the parents told them, and some students might miss out on opportunities they would’ve wanted to take because the parents didn’t check their emails or wrongly assumed their child wouldn’t be interested. But if the school want to inform the students about these opportunities in-person (presumably to drum up excitement for it and inspire an interest), then it wouldn’t be fair at all for your child to be excluded from that - again, they’d find out when it’s mentioned by classmates. It’s just a lesson that children have to learn, money is finite and you can’t have everything you ask for. As a child I wanted to do school trips or clubs that we couldn’t afford, and I was told no. What you could do is look for something more affordable for you that would still encourage your child’s interests, for example as a child I was part of a charitable musical organisation which I think cost under £50 per year to attend, which was a great price for attending rehearsals on a weekly basis! It did mean larger group learning rather than more personalised support, but it was in my family’s budget and I enjoyed going which is what matters most. Obviously not everyone is fortunate enough to live near such an organisation, but it’d be worth looking into whether there is any sort of music-based charities or community groups in your area if your child is really interested in getting into it?

Reply

[-]

CharlieH_@reddit

Use it as a lesson to teach them about aspiration & hard work. I grew up with absolutely nothing other than two loving parents who worked their backsides off for very little in return. There was lots we couldn’t afford, but it was always a lesson in “do this today.. practice and perfect.. then in the future you can attain”

Reply

[-]

Toast4003@reddit

But the lesson in hard work needs to be learnt by the parents lol. If you think £44 is a lot, you need to work harder.

Reply

[-]

Warrior_king99@reddit

The school my kids go to tell us that they are going on a compulsory trip for their education and then foot us with the bill

Reply

[-]

Bakurraa@reddit

Use your words and teach them instead of being a weakling

Reply

[-]

passabletrap@reddit

If you put them incommunicado about upcoming events, what about if something comes up you can afford?

Reply

[-]

dreadwitch@reddit

It's a lesson they need to learn, it will happen a lot when they're an adult. But it's no different to them talking about school trips, there's always kids whose parents can't afford it... Do they not talk about that cos some kids will have to be told no?

Reply

[-]

Wild-Price-9325@reddit

I remember that feeling! And yes, I do think schools are out of order with this, especially with small children. Feels quite villainous. I get the whole “kids have to experience disappointment” thing but seriously, like parents haven’t got enough to contend with.

Reply

[-]

NewtRider@reddit

Very normal. Has been for decades. Extra stuff will always cost more for those that wish to take part. When I was a kid I was told I couldn't do music after school classes because my parents couldn't afford it either.

Reply

[-]

cherrycoke3000@reddit

But did they used to do a month of free classes in schooltime, giving the hard sell to the kids throughout. Then send a letter home to the parents for the expensive afterschool club, with compulsory branded accessories, when they've hooked your kid?

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Nope. I'm in my 30s and never experienced anything like this. In primary school, I learned to play an instrument because my school subsidised it heavily and loaned instruments to students. It introduced me to music, and I went out to learn another instrument and do sight reading. Art clubs, music clubs and sports clubs have also slowly eroded with the costs being passed to parents. Because schools budgets are being slashed. It used to be the case that school was a fairly level playing field. Kids getting their food paid for would eat the same as other students. We'd all wear standard, affordable uniforms. We all had access to basic extra curriculars. Slowly that's been eroded. Not through any fault of children of course, but because of poor policies and ideaological voting. Of adults. So now the class divide is even further cemented in childhood. What was once a vehicle for social mobility has now been diminished. And reddits response? Tough. Kids need to learn their place. The naval gazing is sickening. For what it's worth, Ill be able to afford extra curriculars for my child. But it's disgusting how complacent some people on this thread are. And that's not even touching on the ethics on whether or not this was a private company advertising during school time.

Reply

[-]

NewtRider@reddit

Congratulations! You went to a school that had the funding for such extra clubs, but you seem to fail to understand that not all schools have the same funding. So they use private tutors to do after school clubs even if they can subsidise the course a little bit. Sometimes search activities do require additional payments from the parents. It would be amazing if schools had all the funding they desired and time in the world. But the reality of the world is they don't. Is it shite? Yes Does it suck? Yes Fair? No not really. But what can schools do. At least they are able to offer those clubs on the side, even if it's at a cost from the parents. Some can't even do that.

Reply

[-]

Alarmed-Cheetah-1221@reddit

This is a peak Reddit post Get a fucking grip and parent your children like the rest of us. This is the real world.

Reply

[-]

GucciMonk@reddit

Seeing this post then reading all the comments about how you buy expensive graphics cards and monitors for your gaming hobbie, but won’t fork out £40 for a productive hobbie for your child to develop some useful musical skill, made me very sad for your child. The fact they were so excited as well? And you say “nah, can’t afford it, I have to buy expensive gaming PC” - genuinely sickening parenting, and I hope the feedback you received today is a wake up call for you to start caring about your child more

Reply

[-]

FatPablosBirkins@reddit

I’ll ask Sony to not advertise the next PlayStation whilst I’m at it.

Reply

[-]

anonoaw@reddit

Why on earth shouldn’t it be legal. The school is passing on information about clubs and opportunities that are great for kids. The fact that you cannot afford it is not a reason to not let families know about things.

Reply

[-]

condosovarios@reddit

I mean if you can't spare £44 for your kid they have a long life ahead of them being exposed to things you can't afford. Oh wait, you can afford a new monitor for your PC. So your priorities are the issue here, not finances.

Reply

[-]

Unearthingthepast@reddit

When my first grandson was as born, I immediately started a savings account for these sort of trips..I put in an average of £15 to £20 a month with a target of saving £200 a year...It doesn't seem a lot, but he's 12 now, and his first school skiing trip is looming, but it's already more than paid for... These trips are not a surprise to parents, so I really don't understand why people don't start saving well in advance...Obviously if you have multiple kids it gets much more difficult, but then you have bigger issues....

Reply

[-]

-captaindiabetes-@reddit

Uh what trips? OP wasn't talking about trips.

Reply

[-]

Unearthingthepast@reddit

But other people in the comments were....

Reply

[-]

PurplePlodder1945@reddit

Honestly, while this is a new one on me, they will start to come home with all sorts of leaflets about school trips, clubs etc. It’s part of school life. This is when you have to sit your child down and explain that while it would be lovely, you just can’t afford it/everything that gets offered to them so you have to pick and choose. If you explain it in their terms, they should understand, even if they’re disappointed. My kids went on one or two smaller trips and knew I couldn’t afford the bigger ones. I know this is a music club not a trip but it’s all part of the same conversation. Your child won’t be the only one who can’t afford it. I do think this one’s a bit naughty though, it’s not a school trip, it sounds like a private company thing? As someone else has said, maybe join the PTA or governors (which has more clout) where your voice will be heard.

Reply

[-]

cherrycoke3000@reddit

Even some school trips have got out of hand. As a parent there were definite hard sells going on. Art exhibitions of highly controlled pieces of artwork framed and costing to much from a company they had brought in. The trail lessons of martial arts in school hours, then the after school club and the costs. School photos now come with randomly grouped kids, or class groups, to buy in infants. I've sat in a staff meeting about how the estate, and so school, was in the bottom 10% of the country. How hard the day to day struggle was for many families. I've also heard the Head of the linked primary bragging about getting a free skiing holiday by going on the secondary school skiing trip. I suspect very few actual classroom teachers would have been on the trip. And that was pre covid. Last year they decided a select few would be chosen to go on a White savour trip, so barely literate kids are sent to teach other kids English. These trips cost thousands per head. The children have to fund raise this money from their local community. A community who are on their knees at the moment and completely in character the school are asking for a questionable cause. Hold a camp out in the school hall/sports field, they'd love it.

Reply

[-]

king_ofbhutan@reddit

a lot of private companies do things like these with primary schools (i would hope they would have permission from the county...) most primary schools have very limited music departments, and its not like secondary schools were youth choirs and orchestras are avaliable, so oftentimes this is the best it can be

Reply

[-]

icy_equestrian@reddit

I'll one up this. My child's class was given branded water bottles by the local estate agent. They are no longer allowed their own water bottles in class, only the branded ones. I find it abhorrent.

Reply

[-]

Main-Issue4366@reddit

This is why I have never spent a day in school and won't for the rest of my education - take today for example I was on the phone to my friend around 8am and she was walking to school and the SECOND she walked into the gates she was ending our call and I heard her teacher screaming at her. I prefer to be home educated but I understand not everyone can

Reply

[-]

Famous_Specialist_44@reddit

Just tell the school you've removed consent for their image to be used.

Reply

[-]

AlternativeAd1984@reddit

Yeah God help you if you mess up in this sub. People with nothing better to do than go off their nut at literally nothing.

Reply

[-]

Famous_Specialist_44@reddit

No worries. Cheers. Have a good one.

Reply

[-]

HawkwardGames@reddit

Image to be used? What the fuck are you on about, did you even read the post? It’s about a leaflet for a music club, not consent to use their kid’s image.

Reply

[-]

Hour-Estate-2962@reddit

Wow. Responding this aggressively to someone getting something wrong is wild.

Reply

[-]

HawkwardGames@reddit

Aggressive? Hardly. They replied with something completely unrelated and got called on it. Get a grip.

Reply

[-]

Hour-Estate-2962@reddit

Fair enough, personally I think there are kinder ways of pointing out that someone has made a mistake but you obviously disagree. No harm done.

Reply

[-]

AlternativeAd1984@reddit

Calm down

Reply

[-]

Consistent_Umpire443@reddit

Surly a bot , tf does that even mean

Reply

[-]

Cole-Palmer-phd@reddit

I reckon just read the headline and got the wrong end of the stick. That's what I thought the post was going to be about before reading the actual content

Reply

[-]

AlternativeAd1984@reddit

Or perhaps they just misunderstood the post and it’s not the end of the world.

Reply

[-]

neilm1000@reddit

OP hasn't said anything about image use.

Reply

[-]

MeetingGunner7330@reddit

Do you have any family members that wouldn’t mind helping out like grandparents? I get everyone’s struggling for money, but I’m sure if you have a good relationship with your or your partners parents (if you’re still together) then I’m sure they wouldn’t mind it if you told them it’s something the kids want to do desperately but you can’t afford it. This could be the thing that ignites a real passion for your kids and something that they could pursue and maybe even turn into a career. Or it could be something that helps them socialise and make new friends which is also a big positive

Reply

[-]

WorkMateT@reddit

Yeah you have to click the opt out button

Reply

[-]

BlokeyBlokeBloke@reddit

How is it legal to offer children access to extra curricular activities? Well, mainly because such a law would be amazingly stupid.

Reply

[-]

mariegriffiths@reddit

I remember the music teacher renting out musical instruments in the 80s. No one wanted to pay the £300 deposit on renting out the bassoon.

Reply

[-]

waisonline99@reddit

They do this to educate your child that life isnt fair and money is the most important thing of all.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

It's not teaching kids anything. As a society we are failing if we aren't working to remove structural access barriers for kids in their education. Your complacency is not commendable.

Reply

[-]

Lacessso@reddit

I forego certain luxuries to ensure my children have the extra curricular activities that help them to grow. They take Music (£84/month each), Swimming (£75/month each) and Football (£32/month) classes along with the offered after school classes like computer animation, knitting etc which are only £10 a term. Unfortunately it means I go without my own luxuries. My gaming computer does not play the latest games. I cannot buy new games anyway. I do not buy myself new clothes - I recently had a few discretely brandeed hoodies and tshirts from a system vendor at work that keep me going. I use a cheap phone with the cheapest monthly sim I can find. I drive a 14 year old car. It's important to me that they got to experience the type of things that I never got to growing up. But I don't say yes to everything as like you say it is unsustainable. The Ice Cream man plays his tune - no, you don't just get. A new video game comes out - no, you don't just get. If we go out for the day, you cannot expect a sit down meal at a restaurant for lunch. Takeaway is a very very rare treat - once this year so far. As parents we cannot hide the costs of the world nor hide them from the fact that other families are better off. That would be doing them a diservice and reality will hit them HARD in a couple years.

Reply

[-]

Complex-Car-809@reddit

If it is advertising a business or for profit endeavour I do not think schools should distribute. I have raised this in the past for children's school.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Good. I'm glad you did.

Reply

[-]

swallowyoursadness@reddit

Not quite the same, but my daughter kept running out of money on her lunch card quite quickly, when we went to look at what she was buying it was all cookies and donuts and fizzy drinks sold at a massive mark up. We can buy the same fizzy drinks from Asda for nearly half the price. She says she never has the fruit at school because it's just sitting on the side and doesn't look very nice. Thankfully we talk about and practise healthy eating at home but surely that should be one of the fundamental things to be teaching children at school as well, basic nutrition, it makes me really angry to know that she's chosing unhealthy options at school when she would definitely chose healthy snacks if they were more varied and presentable..

Reply

[-]

Dense_Bar_6771@reddit

Bloody RockSteady and their hard sell!

Reply

[-]

Upbeat-Main-9044@reddit

Why would schools making children aware of extracurricular activities be illegal? The flipside of this is the school arranges nothing and gets criticised for that.

Reply

[-]

Arsewhistle@reddit

>how is this legal? That's a bit daft, come on now. Sorry, but this really feels like such a non-issue.

Reply

[-]

papercut2008uk@reddit

I remember the 'assembly' where a bunch of people come to try to sell you a holiday abroad, they REALLY sell it, then at the end 'it's only £1250 BUT, you can make smaller payments each month or get vouchers and a discount'. I know my mum sturggled to put a few £ together when 'book day' would come, handing out those book leaflets on what will be on sale a few weeks before, I knew I would never be able to get anything from those that was more than £3-£4. My daughter came to me last year about 'We going to FRANCE!!' for like £900 for 3 days. Are we paying for the whole class to go? Because it's not anywhere near that expensive to go to France.

Reply

[-]

Nickjc88@reddit

If they're excited and want to do it, I'm sure there's things you can cut down on to save £44 a month. Obviously everyone's situation is different but if you can't save £44 a month, then having kids was probably a bad idea.

Reply

[-]

-Absofuckinglutely-@reddit

So when you're in a shop, you say yes to everything they point at? Or do you do what the rest of us do, and occasionally say no so that they learn that they can't have everything?

Reply

[-]

georgialucy@reddit

I think it's different when the school brings in groups to advertise things to the students, usually they do an assembly for it and pass out these leaflets. If the school wants to advertise things, then do it to the parents, not a room of kids.

Reply

[-]

No-Taro-6953@reddit

Agreed. It's pretty dystopian this is happening.

Reply

[-]

Haunting-Rush-2209@reddit

Schools also guilt them too! My school often says ‘oh it’ll go towards X project!’ to try and get more donors

Reply

[-]

Ok-Constant-2683@reddit

Do you not understand the difference between a shop and a school?

Reply

[-]

naiwub@reddit

It's annoying as hell. They dress these things up as PE lessons, and really they're just live demos/sales pitches for different companies.

Reply

[-]

ameliasasa@reddit

Annoying - yes. Hi what law is this breaking that would deem it not legal?

Reply

[-]

TSC-99@reddit

Tell the school to research poverty proofing! Teacher.

Reply

[-]

tomisnottdead@reddit

Welcome to neoliberal capitalism

Reply

[-]

BrowsingnDaydreaming@reddit

I do think it is a little unfair (direct email to parents would have been better) but that is the way of life. as a kid, I adored singing (still do). I really wanted lessons but my parents couldn’t afford them. and they told me this gently and I understood. In the same way I understood why other kids had lots of nice toys and I didn’t. And I don’t look back on my childhood and hate it because my parents made sure it was fun just not expensive. I feel very sorry for your kid, truly but it will help them in the long run as things only get more expensive and they will end up disappointed that they can’t fit in with their peers. but if they learn it straight away, they can learn to find other ways to have fun/fit in

Reply

[-]

Ornery-Assignment-42@reddit

I grew up in the USA from age 8 onwards and it was the same thing. At my school we were sent home with a sheet of paper advertising to our parents that an upcoming camp visit along with a tear off order form to include with your check. Camp meant sleeping over at a woodland location with a lake for boating and fishing, for a week. I don’t remember how much it cost but I knew without asking my parents weren’t going to pay. I never gave them the paper. I just told the teacher flat out I couldn’t go. Nobody asked why or even seemed to care. It was during the school year so while everyone was at camp, myself and two other kids along with a couple of other special needs kids still came into school and basically did nothing with a teacher all day. It was very relaxing and I loved that all the others weren’t there. At one point we took a day trip, a “field trip”, to the camp to see all our other classmates. They told us all about how much fun they were having, we were shown around and then driven back home. A handful of us rattling around in a normal sized big yellow American school bus. The thought of being stuck in a bunk house with my bullies, forced to go fishing and boating with them sounded like my idea of hell. I think a big part of not even giving my parents the option was the fear that they might somehow find the money. I was perfectly happy being left behind.

Reply

[-]

Creative-Thought-556@reddit

Absolutely they can! Make them part of the decision making process. This sounds silly, but if you get your budget together. Incomings, outgoings. Show them how the heating and electricity bill makes up expenditure. Show them how the budget for food and hobbies is made up. Get them involved in the decision making process now. That level of life experience is often only taught when it's absolutely needed when they enter the working world. Usually it's taught by going broke and needing a bailout. If balancing the budget starts young, it will be far less disruptive later. As a person who loves a hobby I completely disagree with some of the sentiments below. You can easily pick up a cheap keyboard to learn on, 2nd hand ones sell for as much as you buy them on Ebay. It's a wonderful way to understand the beautiful world we live in. Whilst I'm not Debussy or Ed Sheeran, I learnt to play some of Einaudis stuff and it fills me with joy and a new level of appreciation. What's more, it gets them out of the digital bubble and into the real world. But hey, that's their choice with the budget you show them.

Reply

[-]

RetroRegretso@reddit

Yes you can. Email the school. They will mark it down. You can it's a safeguarding issue if you want to spin it that way.

Reply

[-]

BobMonroeFanClub@reddit

If you're on free school meals contact the head of year . They have funds for stuff like this.

Reply

[-]

boojes@reddit

My son does Rocksteady; he does seem to be learning well and he's really enjoying it. But at both the concerts so far, they've invited classes to watch and then told the kids to ask their parents about joining. I know they are trying to make money, but it really left a bitter taste.

Reply

[-]

Thingzwithstuff@reddit

The last 2 concerts we had, they didn't do that but my god that was awful when they did

Reply

[-]

ODFoxtrotOscar@reddit

They do it because the vendors pay to place their advertising material in the school. School budgets (like everyone budgets) are pretty strapped at the moment One parent complaining won’t carry any weight. But parents working together (perhaps through the PTA) to show how much this is disliked, and to remove or limit it might have some effect

Reply

[-]

slimboyslim9@reddit

The school won’t be getting a backhander out of this. A music company will use their facilities for an hour after school once a week and the school gets to benefit from offering an interesting extracurricular club to its pupils. Very slightly possible they charge the company a small fee to use facilities. As with all these things, some parents will want to pay for it, others won’t.

Reply

[-]

TheDutchess_420@reddit

We had something similar in my children's school, they should sent this on the parent apps so the children don't see it, I have two disappointed children I couldn't muster another £90 a month how badly I would like then to go there seeing the excitement on their faces, but they already go to football £35 a term and additional costs, girl guides at £40 a term and all the costs in between, violin lessons .... It's heartbreaking because there is so much they want to do and I can't afford it 😔 so no is a very commonly used word in my household unfortunately.

Reply

[-]

MercatorLondon@reddit

Our school asked us at the start of the school for a permission for publishing images.

Reply

[-]

ThrowRAkitty13@reddit

What are you on about?

Reply

[-]

okiadmit@reddit

How is anything legal?

Reply

[-]

Inside-Escape-6830@reddit

You could take your child out of the indoctrination camp, that would sort the problem.

Reply

[-]

Previous-Ostrich844@reddit

Indoctrination camp? In what way is a school an indoctrination camp 😂

Reply

[-]

Tacklestiffener@reddit

In the 1960's my school used to run a skiing trip to Switzerland every year. It was (then) phenomenally expensive and I just understood that I couldn't go. Maybe kids understand more than you think.

Reply

[-]

mynameisjodie@reddit

Put kids every half term come home with this things to do in the area booklet theatre trips etc and we just can't afford it plus we both work though the holidays alternate days we don't have the time or energy also and this happens every half term

Reply

[-]

NrthnLd75@reddit

Is it a school-run music club?

Reply

[-]

AutoModerator@reddit

**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!** - When replying to submission/post please **make genuine efforts to answer the question given**. Please no jokes, judgements, etc. If a post is marked 'Serious Answers Only' **you may receive a ban for violating this rule**. - **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on. - This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit! Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Reply

Reply to Post

792 Comments