Are EV bad for highway use ?
Posted by Slow_Description_773@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 495 comments
I keep reading the opinion about how EV's may be poor performers for highway use. Is it because range takes a serious hit ? I've been driving hybrids for the past 20 years and once the car is up to speed it's not hard to keep it there with a CVT and decent fuel consumption. So let's say my EV has an oem range of 300 miles and I need to take a day trip with the family for a total of 160 miles, highway drive with some hills and there's no charging stations either on highway or at destination. How screwed one could be ?
FckYouImFluffy@reddit
EVs can recharge their batteries when slowing down. You do that a lot in the city, and basically never on the high way
imjeffp@reddit
True, the real theft of range is aerodynamic drag. You get better range by not pushing as much air out of the way.
nothas@reddit
ive done a couple EV roadtrips now and keeping it at 65mph is wayyyyy more efficient than keeping it at 75
Secret_Celery8474@reddit
That's true for every vehicle. People just tend to ignore that when driving an ICE.
NotYetReadyToRetire@reddit
The effect isn't as obvious with an ICE vehicle. In an EV, you have to give at least some thought to where you're going to charge so you're planning to get to X location; with ICE, you typically just need to make it to the next exit to get gas. If chargers were everywhere like gas pumps are, we'd be less likely to care or notice in EVs too.
VMA131Marine@reddit
It’s less obvious in an ICE vehicle because the engine gets more efficient at higher power settings.
Optimal-Buddy6566@reddit
Yeah small(emphasis on this) ICE engines do actually tend to work quite well when they are used at their high speeds compared to EV’s. Now that being said the difference in efficiency between an EV and a ICE at low speeds is a lot bigger and trust me the EV will be more efficient then.
3dprintedthingies@reddit
For people who calculate fuel economy it is. My old jeep can see a 25% difference if I'm going 55 vs 75. That can be a difference of 40+ miles per tank.
Modern cars have far better aerodynamics than older cars, but you can still see a considerable difference in most cars(3-10%) if you slow down to 55/65 from 75/85. Remember the original highway speed limit of 55-65 was for fuel economy, not safety.
fixdgear7@reddit
the difference is insane for motorcycles. riding 80+ gets me 60-100 miles less range than the 300 miles I would get at 60mph
thelazygamer@reddit
Yeah, but if your old jeep was like mine, it was less aerodynamic than a cow: https://share.google/images/IQqIbxaYdnSuf6ZUk
SEND_MOODS@reddit
I'm sure the claim is true, but I find the use of color plots without scales to be a cardinal sin.
Those two plots don't even show the same type of data. It's like comparing the average volume of a chicken in square inches and the per pound price of beef, then using those two unrelated facts to say "so beef is healthier."
af_cheddarhead@reddit
I referred to my Land Rover as the "Flying Brick" due to it's aerodynamics.
haske0@reddit
I'm guessing you drive a defender?
af_cheddarhead@reddit
Discovery II but the Defender also qualifies as a brick.
haske0@reddit
I'd say the defenders is more of a brick. Letting off the throttle feels the same as regeneration braking in an EV lol.
Leather-Sale-1206@reddit
General rule I've always heard was 10% decrease in fuel economy for every 20 mph above 55
The-Almighty-Pizza@reddit
Much more than that. I get around 45mpg going 60 in my jetta, but only 37 if I go 70.
Hersbird@reddit
But it's worse than that because it's exponential. So if it was 5% for the first 10 mph, it would be 10% for the next 10 mph, then 20% for the next 10mph. Going 85 mph is a really big hit over 55.
Pale-Ad6216@reddit
Drag increases at the square of speed. So comparing 40 mph to 80mph, speed has doubled and drag has quadrupled. It is a very non linear relationship. 10% may be a good enough approximation for the speed differences in question though since we aren’t really talking about doing 55 vs 110.
outline8668@reddit
10% for 20mph is way way conservative. It's easy double that for most vehicles.
Leather-Sale-1206@reddit
Errrr, ya it's supposed to be 10 per 10 but I can't type
3dprintedthingies@reddit
Jeep's brick-o-dynamics department has always been blunting edge in the field efficiency realm.
sakura-peachy@reddit
While that's true, in reality most people see better mileage on the highway because ICE cars waste a LOT more energy in stopping and starting. Constant speed driving on a highway gets better overall efficiency (upto a certain point).
Sellum@reddit
My Forester Hybrid gets about 10% better fuel economy when I average 65 instead of 75 and that over a tank is 50 miles. It’s a huge difference overall.
w1ck3dme@reddit
My 17’ civic has a tank that’s like 10 gallons during a fill. If I drive 50, I can do over 450 on a tank. I’ve also finished a tank in less than 300 miles lol when really speeding
elementarydeardata@reddit
You also don't notice it in an ICE vehicle because even though driving slowly is usually more efficient, ICE vehicles don't benefit from this when driving around town because they burn fuel at idle, and they don't spend much time in the power band where they're most efficient. When you're on the highway in an ICE car, you're not idleing and your transmission has you operating at an efficient engine RPM. An EV doesn't use much energy at idle and pretty much have the same efficiency at any RPM, so you really notice the benefits of driving slowly.
karankshah@reddit
It’s plenty obvious- you would net an extra 10/15% distance by keeping speed lower in either ICE or EV.
I just know very few ICE drivers that will track mileage to the level of detail needed, where most EV owners will care a lot about 30 extra miles of freeway driving, particularly if it takes a charging stop out of a road trip.
The root cause here is the difference of availability of charging infrastructure, and more charging infrastructure would basically eventually mean ev drivers also wouldn’t care about it.
BluesyMoo@reddit
Yeah there needs to be enough chargers that you don't need to do any planning, which is what ICE does.
Also 10% extra fuel for ICE is about 10 extra seconds at the pump. You'd notice it for cost reasons, but it's barely thought about as range and recharging time issue.
artytog@reddit
I'd also add that it doesn't really matter from a cost perspective whether I fill an ICE car "at" home or at the furthest point in my journey, but that's a very significant difference in cost in an EV thanks to the cost of public charging.
Secret_Celery8474@reddit
What? Every car made in the last two or three decades has a fuel consumption screen. Both current consumption and consumption average over some distance. I can't be the only one who tries to keep that number as low as possible (I use Liter per 100km. That's why low number is better)
karankshah@reddit
Brother, you have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Not only are there people that have no idea how they’re performing on fuel economy, there are people out there who assume, for example, that $30 is a full tank no matter what, and don’t even question why their fuel light comes on much faster sometimes. These are not even wealthy people, necessarily, just people that look for their fuel light to come on, and go fill up then. They survive based on gas being widely available and somewhat affordable.
If you’re actually a working poor American, of course, you are hyper aware of what everything costs, but that is bottom 20% stuff.
GoBlu323@reddit
Chargers are becoming more prevalent everywhere they’re just not as obvious as gas stations because electricity doesn’t need that kind of infrastructure around it
UIUC_grad_dude1@reddit
True. And yet the most aggressive drivers tend to be the ones with the most inefficient vehicles, ie huge trucks and SUVs. Guess the rising fuel prices may temper some of that.
Ch4rlie_G@reddit
This explains why Tesla drivers can be maniacs at stoplights but always seem to be slow on the freeway.
KartoffelLoeffel@reddit
They also treat the accelerator like a light switch for the motors. Floor it=on, nothing=off, zero in between
Zandroid2008@reddit
It's also an engine, transmission design and ECM issue in addition to the Aerodynamics issues for ICE engines. Because EPA mileage is measured at 35 and 55 MPH, the cars are designed for best mileage at 55 MPH, because the standards were set during the oil crisis when the speed limits were lowered to 55 MPH. There's some Aero impacts at 75 MPH, and it's much more true for high vehicles than sedans. My shitty Chevy Aveo was a 4 speed automatic, and only got above 36 MPG once, when I was moving and following my dad's 24 foot trailer closely enough that I was drafting the entire 11 hour trip except for when his truck blew a spark plug out. Averaged 47 MPG. And never saw that mileage again.
MultipleOrgasmDonor@reddit
Because it takes 4 minutes to fill gas and there’s a station at every exit
Secret_Celery8474@reddit
You are still paying for it. I prefer to drive a bit slower to save on gas. But each to their own.
MultipleOrgasmDonor@reddit
Personally I’ll save time instead and drive faster. As you said, to each their own
Secret_Celery8474@reddit
So you save 3 minutes but have to work how much longer to make up the added cost?
You are probably severely overestimating the time you save by driving faster. Even on longer routes it's just a few minutes.
MultipleOrgasmDonor@reddit
The added cost is equally insignificant as the 3 min gain.
Anyways I’m not picking apart your preference so why scrutinize mine? At the end of the day I’m spending my own money to satiate my own impatience
Secret_Celery8474@reddit
What speeds are you talking about? For example driving 100kmh (60mph) instead of 120kmh(75%) saves about 20% fuel. I would not call that insignificant.
I'm scrutinizing yours to make you realize how much money you are wasting. And because saving fuel is good for the environment.
MultipleOrgasmDonor@reddit
I do my 44 mile commute in 40 minutes on a good day. Some is traffic, most of it im doing 80-85. People typically expect my commute to take over an hour so I’m saving a solid 40 minutes every day by optimizing speed and leaving at the right times
I get 26-27mpg in a diesel X5 that’s fueled with 100% renewable (no petroleum). I could do 140mph every where I went and it would have 0 statistically significant impact on the environment. You’re scrutinizing the wrong place—if one industrial process engineer can find a 0.1% improvement it’ll have more impact than I could provide in 100 lifetimes
Secret_Celery8474@reddit
See, you are grossly overestimating the time saved by driving fast.
If you are driving 44 miles at a constant 85mph it will take you 31 minutes. If you drive at 70mph it will take 37 minutes. So just 6 minutes longer.
But you aren't driving at constant 85mph. Your average speed is a lot slower. So the time saved by driving fast is even lower.
MultipleOrgasmDonor@reddit
Man you’re just arguing for no reason. I said from the beginning that this is to satiate my impatience. Shouldn’t’ve even tried to justify an emotional viewpoint with logic for you. It doesn’t matter.
Go annoy an engineer to help the environment and I’ll continue driving how I please. Notice this is ‘ask car guys’ not ‘ask environmentalists’.
BoomerSoonerFUT@reddit
And gas is often cheaper than fast chargers on the highway. Especially the last couple of years when gas was dirt cheap.
I was paying $2.80/gal in my truck and getting 450 miles on a tank. About $60 to fill up.
My buddy with an F150 lightning would only get like 250 miles on a charge on the highway, and it would be like $45 to charge on a lot of the chargers just off the highway for 2/3 of his battery since he can’t run it all the way down. So he was paying nearly double for electricity to go the same distance that I was on gas, and having to stop 2-3x more often.
Around town, EVs kick the shit out of gas though. My next truck is going to be a Scout with the gas generator in it whenever they actually release them. EV only drivetrain with all the benefits of that, never touch gas day to day 90% of the time, but have the gas tank and a generator for longer highway drives where I won’t have to worry about charging infrastructure.
CarmichaelD@reddit
350 miles on Electric alone is pretty great. I rarely do more than 50 highway miles a day. I might get the straight ev myself.
BoomerSoonerFUT@reddit
I don’t often do highway, but when I do it’s almost always 100 mile+ trips. Like when we drive from Colorado to Michigan or Oklahoma to visit family. Gas is still cheaper than 5 plane tickets lol.
The gas generator in the scout would be even more efficient than a gas drivetrain because it would be running at peak efficiency and the electric motors would be variable rather than like a gas truck where the engine is constantly varying.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
So is the normal gas drivetrain on the highway. In fact, if the Scout ever ends up existing, it might even get geared to the wheels like a lot of PHEVs do.
There's no efficiency advantage of converting mechanical energy to electricity just to turn it back into mechanical.
Even-Guard9804@reddit
While you are right about converting mechanical to electrical and back in isolation.
I wonder what the efficiency loss is having both a mechanical and electrical drive train on a phev vs only an electric drive train and a motor/generator that only charges the battery or driect energy to the electric motor.
On larger machines (trains) it’s more efficient to operate on only electric with a diesel engine hooked up to a generator providing the power.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
Just about every series hybrid setup, plug or no has a mechanical linkage. From BYD's EREVs to the Volt to Honda's system.
The Scout's ICE might not be able to be packaged to allow that, but I'll be surprised if it ever hits the market to be honest.
That's a common misconception, but the reason for diesel-electric is more about packaging and being able to handle high power than for efficiency. Smaller locomotives can be had with mechanical transmissions.
CarmichaelD@reddit
That sounds perfect for you.
howismyspelling@reddit
This is so very subjective, and it is a problem so I'm not refuting what you're saying.
Where I live I used to only have access to 50kW chargers at $15/hour, so it would cost something like $20 to get a 90% charge in my old car. Now we have 100kW for $20/h, and 250/350kW chargers for like $1/ minute. My new car can now get an 80% charge in 18 minutes so it's faster charging and costs less to get there than the old car and old chargers.
So, your anecdote will be very dependent on what year his lightning was, how long ago this was and what charge station options you all had at the time.
It's also going to depend on if he conditions his battery before charging. I made the mistake once of not conditioning and my charge speed was literally 33% of what it should have been which ended up costing me much much more than it should have.
The technology is growing, however, and providers are increasing their charging station options everywhere, thankfully.
soul_motor@reddit
Some cars are getting close to parity. A bolt will still take half an hour, but newer Kias take a couple of minutes. Go in, take a wizz, and you're ready to go. You still have to plan your route for stops, but the infrastructure is coming along.
NotYourDad_Miss@reddit
Wrong again. My ice car, bmw 320d, consumes less at 140km/h than at 120km/h. Why? It's called engine / turbo / transmission sweet spot. It was made for German autobhan. Next time investigate first.
Delta0411@reddit
Angry bees go “Hoon”
MaternalFornicator2@reddit
The second I started driving 5 under on highways my large SUV's gas mileage gained 5 MPG on my drives. From 25mpg now to 30mpg on 4927lbs with a supercharged v6.
inphinitfx@reddit
While it's often true, it does vary by vehicle, with aerodynamics and gearing playing a part.
dave200204@reddit
I've actually had good luck improving my gas mileage by changing what route I was taking to work. The interstate was faster for sure but the state highway saved me a couple miles to the gallon.
MrPogoUK@reddit
By my understanding I think ICE engines can to a certain extent be designed to minimise that a bit and have a sweet spot that’s not too much slower than highway speeds, but with an EV it’s a pure faster=less efficient situation.
timmeh-eh@reddit
Drag increases as a square of speed, meaning the faster you go drag increases exponentially faster than speed does. ICE engines would only mask this by being at a less efficient power output at 65 than 75, the increase in power required to stay at the higher speed is the same for both assuming they have the same coefficient of drag (cd). So if the ICE car has a CVT it would ABSOLUTELY use more fuel to maintain 75 than 65, with a geared transmission you might be right.
outline8668@reddit
Also one thing most people overlook is ICE engine BSFC varies based on engine load and rpm. Usually an engine operating at its torque peak rpm at max load is the most efficient. But most engines make way more power than is required to maintain speed so we can't operate them at that load. A CVT cannot overcome this however as you touched on, the drag reduction almost always more than makes you for this.
Secret_Celery8474@reddit
No.
It's not about the efficiency of engines (which ICE looses by a mile) it's about air resistance.
imakycha@reddit
No, it really isn’t. ICE have sweet spots in terms of engine load where things are going to be most efficient. Gas and diesel engines have torque curves, electric engines really don’t (at least in the context of driving). Things like turbos, CVT’s, increased gears, etc. can help flatten things out but it’s still a curve.
4x4Welder@reddit
There is an efficiency curve to both gas and diesel engines, and some like the big diesels in semis can drop off so steeply that slowing down a few mph will decrease the fuel mileage. Most modern cars are pretty good with a flat torque curve helping give a wider efficient rpm range. My old Alfa Romeo would get better mileage doing 80 than doing 70 on the freeway, I had a really long commute for a few months so I tested out different speeds to see what it would do for the mileage.
Air resistance definitely plays a roll regardless of energy source, but with the much lower efficiency of a gas engine it's a smaller difference than with a much more efficient electric motor
Altruistic-Rice-5567@reddit
Nope. Nothing you can do about the efficiency of the fuel compared to drag. But three things change perception. 1) gas engines get no benefit from city driving because they don't regenerate fuel when braking. They don't have magically efficiency on the highway. We've all been living with crappy city performance and we accept it. 2) gas cars have tank sizes that start at 300mile ranges and go up near 500. You can fill up at your destination rather than make a stop. 3) you don't care about that stop even if you do have to make it because compatible stations are everywhere and the stop takes less than 5 minutes.
czarl13@reddit
But 75 gets you there faster :-)
Some might argue that it is more fun to go faster, but on a hwy, 10 mph is not going to feel much different
Far_Negotiation8009@reddit
Same with ice
nothas@reddit
yeah, i guess the data feedback on an EV is much more immediate and always changing, so it's more noticeable. and how much it affects the predicted range thing. gas cars have enough range generally that you dont need to think about that and where to get gas next. EV's still need to get that charging infrastructure to a point where you dont have to think about it anymore, but we'll get there.
Far_Negotiation8009@reddit
Or just buy a hybrid or ice. Those adventures don’t go to well for family’s with young kids or emergency situations
PrimaryThis9900@reddit
I used to test this, and found that if I drove 55 on the highway my fuel mileage in my big dodge pickup went from 12 driving 70 to almost 20.
Satins_Cock@reddit
My little civic hybrid is similar, my mileage drops to 24mpg @ 90mph. Gets about 50 at 55
Dismal_Estate9829@reddit
I hope you choose the appropriate lane….
nothas@reddit
left lane = slow down, right?
Dismal_Estate9829@reddit
Typical ev mentality.
nothas@reddit
lol
professorfunkenpunk@reddit
That was the origin of the 55mph speed limit
NoEmu5969@reddit
Bring it back!
NoGarbage1323@reddit
I dont think big shiny truck owners care about efficiency
NoEmu5969@reddit
Yeah, they act like speed limits are an infringement on their rights.
Cynyr36@reddit
Speed limits are the lower limit, not the upper! Merica! /s
Ch4rlie_G@reddit
Well it’s interesting when you really get into it. In Michigan for instance they did a speed study 20 years ago and the average left lane speed was 82. 70mph speed limit.
And then they have a 65mph limit for trucks. Truck companies often limit the speeds of their vehicles. So this creates one of the most dangerous situations in driving which is a speed differential.
Post Covid they barely enforce speed anymore. You can set the cruise at 85 and wave at cops all day long. It’s getting a bit crazy out there.
Meanwhile you have EVs, hyper milers, scared people, penny pinchers and 18 wheelers all doing 65 in the right lane.
And EVERYONE hates it.
NoEmu5969@reddit
Equitable enforcement of speed limits would be a revolution in the US. It could start a civil war.
TemperatureFinal5135@reddit
First Big Gubmint tells them they have to wear those "seat belts" so they look like "fairies", then Big Brother says they can't crush a sixer on their way home from work. What's next, they can't take a shit in their own house?
/s just in case
werdnax12@reddit
"I'm bigger than you, I own the road" mentality
werdnax12@reddit
Many don't, the way they put the pedal to the metal often. But there are truck owners that are light on their pedal, because it does make a huge difference. I'm a semi-shiny truck owner, if the speed limits 60, I'll go 65, but if it's 70, I go 70. i don't go over 70mph for fuel economy reasons. With my old truck with less gears, I rarely went over 60. I won't be cruising over 2k rpm
sunsetair@reddit
I usually travel between 65 mph and 75 mph that I think is a safe and while not the most economical but still economical way of getting around as I m getting 33-35 mpg with my SUV. I really don't care if someone does 55 or 85. I really hate controlled speed on wide and mostly straight highways. I think over 90 or 100 mph is dangerous even on dry surface with limited or non existent driving education in the US so I would do limit around there.
sharpshooter999@reddit
Big rusty truck owner here, my biggest concern is towing capacity. Next truck will be either an F-250 or 350, I max or exceed what my F-150 can handle multiple times a week
professorfunkenpunk@reddit
But then we’ll get stuck with that awful Sammy Hagar song
Shot-Swimming-9098@reddit
But we also got Double Nickels on the Dime from the Minutemen in response to that song.
professorfunkenpunk@reddit
In that case, it was worth it
Shot-Swimming-9098@reddit
Mr. Narrator, this is Bob Dylan to me.
JT-Av8or@reddit
Drag increases by the square of velocity and power required increases by the cube.
nothas@reddit
sure does
1funnyguy4fun@reddit
Thus spawning the old adage, “There’s no substitute for cubic inches”
/s
gokartninja@reddit
You spelled "no replacement for displacement" wrong
yogfthagen@reddit
Goes both ways.
pkupku@reddit
And the drag rises with the cube of speed. So if you double your speed, the dragon goes up by eight times.
manugutito@reddit
Power due to drag rises with the cube of the speed, true. But you typically care about consumption per unit distance (i.e. you are driving from A to B), not per unit time. Going faster uses more power but gets you there in less time. If you take that into account, consumption scales with the square of speed, not the cube.
Insertsociallife@reddit
Dragons rise with the square. Power required to overcome the dragons rises with the cube.
HiddenStoat@reddit
Drag rises with the square of the speed, not the cube.
This is because you are (effectively) pushing a 2d object (the front face of the car) through space.
_f00lish_@reddit
Well that explains all the dragons following me around!
HaydenMackay@reddit
And rpms. That little motor is spinning real hard at highway speeds.
lt_dt@reddit
Drag increases with the square of velocity. So you're not doubling your drag from 35 to 70, you're quadrupling it.
SEND_MOODS@reddit
If you brake, and you aren't at your destination yet, then you'll need to accelerate again. Even if your brake regen and power train are 100% efficient (they aren't), you'd still break even at best.
The difference is aerodynamic drag with squares with speed.
ESK8_NERD@reddit
This is not the reason. Constant stop and go is still less efficient for an EV than just maintaining a steady speed, regenerative braking has losses. It is not some magic bullet.
The real reason is increase aerodynamic drag at higher speeds.
antilumin@reddit
Another thing to point out is that just being “on” doesn’t drain too much battery. So if you’re stuck in traffic the car isn’t using much power. Meanwhile a typical ICE is just idling through gas.
TheChinchilla914@reddit
Tbf idling also uses crazy small amounts of gas even before shutoff schemes
Rare-One1047@reddit
Maybe in stop and start traffic, but I've watched my gas gauge creep down while waiting to pick my kid up from sports.
New_Line4049@reddit
Why were you running the engine wasting fuel? Thats simple operator error.
Rare-One1047@reddit
Because it was like 5°f out and I don't want frostbite?
Optimal_Whiner@reddit
In those conditions an EV also drains faster.
nerobro@reddit
Somewhere between .25 and .7 gallons per hour, depending on vehicle and if the a/c is on or not. Most cars are in the .35-45 range. So... definitely measurable.
jaymansi@reddit
A gas car will consume .5-.75 gallons of gasoline for every hour of idling. I was shocked when in my EV I was running the A/C for 40 minutes and maybe lost 1% state of charge.
ashyjay@reddit
Whiteboard Man did say if you're stopped for more than 7 seconds Stop/Start does make a difference.
doc_55lk@reddit
Fuel losses during idle aren't as high as you think. It takes like 2-3 days of idling to completely a full tank.
good2knowu@reddit
So are you saying tailgating a large vehicle will increase the range?
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
Drafting? Yes it does
werdnax12@reddit
Drafting is something I've always wanted to dabble in, but I feel it's not worth the windshield cracks, I keep my distance behind semi's because they will fling rocks at ya
New_Line4049@reddit
Its not just the windscreen cracks. Even with big lorries youve got to be pretty close, well within the safe braking distance. If youre drafting and they have to slam the brakes on for any reason you are, in technical terms, fucked.
ESK8_NERD@reddit
Not completely. The stopping distance of most passenger vehicles is far better than an 18 wheeler, and drafting can still have benefits at a pretty far distance.
New_Line4049@reddit
Depends what youre drafting though.
blackfarms@reddit
You don't have to be that close. Normal travelling distance is fine,
werdnax12@reddit
I like at least a 5 second buffer zone. Most people's normal traveling distance that I see is much closer. Every second of reaction time counts! But anyways I like to be further than that from a big rig, I've had rocks chip my windshield at my normal travel distance
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
It's not worth it. But if you have an old beater jeep that's all dinged up and gets poor gas mileage anyway... you can test it. It was not super smart but I was on the interstate and bored. My instantaneous mph reading would go up 3 or 4 mpg when drafting. Not worth the added headache.
ESK8_NERD@reddit
Yes, in both an ICE and an EV, drafting can net significant increases to efficiency, although you have to be quite close for it to really have an effect.
Mr_Style@reddit
Tesla needs to create a vehicle-to-vehicle (V2V) communication to "tether" cars together electronically or via camera monitored spacing allowing them to brake and accelerate simultaneously for safer, tighter formations. This would let us “platoon” at higher speeds and save significant eMPG when on the freeway between cities like LA and Las Vegas.
makia0890@reddit
But then you would also need to have the teslas rotate which one is in front otherwise the lead car limits the groups range. And that person foots the “electron bill”, which admittedly is lower than ICE cars already.
Mr_Style@reddit
Yep, just like a flock of geese they change out the leader occasionally.
nerobro@reddit
I got somewhere north of 70mpg tailgating at 24' straight truck in my 2000 Focus ZX3. It's normal highway mileage was 35ish. It required so little throttle application that it was difficult to maintain the distance to the truck.
Note: this was done with radio communication between everyone involved.
shhbedtime@reddit
Watch the MythBusters test of this, they drafted behind trucks, the result was, yes it can make a huge difference is you are close enough, but it's terrifying to drive that close.
dedhead2018@reddit
Watch a Indy or NASCAR race. You'll learn all about drafting.
Main_Tension_9305@reddit
Definitely.
But it’s an acquired skill with a steep learning curve and high consequences for failure.
Fauxjito@reddit
... sounds like the exact words you said sometime prior to being presented with the results, upon which you nodded curtly and said "Yep. Told you so." :-)
Rare-One1047@reddit
All cars have an increase in aerodynamic drag as higher speeds.
The real reason is that EVs have a limited range, and electric motors are nearly 100% effective, so the range loss from speed is more pronounced than it is in a petrol car. But the range loss between petrol and electric is identical once you ignore heat loss of a conventional engine.
sault18@reddit
Specifically, a gas / diesel engine has a relatively narrow range of RPM where it can operate while still delivering a useful amount of power to the wheels and not tearing itself apart. So it requires a transmission to be able to power the vehicle from a stop all the way to its max speed. In lower gears, the engine is spinning a lot to move the vehicle a little. All the while, the engine has to work to suck in air, compress it and push out the exhaust through the emissions system. And mechanical friction also increases with engine speed. Only in higher or top gear do these vehicles get the best fuel economy. And that only happens at highway speeds
It only looks like gas/diesel vehicles are efficient on the highway because they're so terribly inefficient in the city.
bothunter@reddit
Yeah.. it's that peaky v² term
Bulky-Plate-4288@reddit
And the motor needs to work harder because it doesn’t have gears…
ESK8_NERD@reddit
Not relevant. Electric motors dont need gears in the same sense that an ICE does. They generate peak torque from zero RPM and have an insanely high rpm range compared to a combustion engine. They can make plenty of torque without breaking a sweat without a traditional multi-speed gearbox, as the powerband is so incredibly wide its not necessary. Not to mention, a gearbox wouldnt even help, you would just be running the motor at a higher rpm (voltage) and lower torque (current), the actual power used would be a tossup with the same consumed wattage.
Bulky-Plate-4288@reddit
Electric motors don’t need gears, but saying they wouldn’t help isn’t true. Gearing can keep the motor in a more efficient RPM range at higher speeds. Some EVs literally use multi-speed transmissions for that reason. The main highway efficiency loss is aero drag, but motor efficiency still drops at high RPM
ESK8_NERD@reddit
It drops, but not anywhere near as much. Generally the inefficiency of higher speed is just minor, due to iron losses in the motor. The increased inefficiency a gearbox would add generally makes it not worth it for most cases, and even in those with gearboxes, they are generally only two speed units.
Bulky-Plate-4288@reddit
I’m intrigued on cvt being used with evs, that would keep it as efficient as possible at all times. Is it worth the difference rn, no. Will we see it in the future probably
ESK8_NERD@reddit
I would be very hesitant there. CVT's are very inefficient and do not handle high torque at all, if we're talking about the traditional metal belt style units. The losses due to the belt system would completely negate any benefits you gain from reducing iron losses in the motor at high speed, and the massive torque most EV's can put down would make the jatco CVT in nissan's look reliable.
curi0us_carniv0re@reddit
Yeah. Constantly accelerating a heavy vehicle from a dead stop puts more load on the motor and drains the battery quicker than just maintaining a consistent speed.
MrRogersAE@reddit
You still waste more energy accelerating all the time in the city than you can possibly get from regenerative braking.
The real difference is wind drag, there’s more of it the faster you go.
If you drove your EV 100km at 50km/h with no stops vs 100km/h with no stops the slower speed would exceed both your normal highway energy usage and your city usage.
fore___@reddit
Tell that to my commute
One-Inch-Punisher-@reddit
Exactly this. I’m an Amazon delivery driver and use those electric vans almost daily. We don’t send them on routes more than 40 minutes away because battery is absolutely trash on the freeway. Drains 20% easily.
However once they’re on the route doing just “stop-go-stop-go” the battery barely drains all shift, even with the air conditioning running full blast.
TweeksTurbos@reddit
But i have to slow down all the time when i reach the next car!
GamemasterJeff@reddit
EVs are more efficient when you don't have to regen. It's just that regen is more efficient than wasting that stopping motion. But not stopping at all is even better.
EVs are great on the highway so long as you aren't a leadfoot. I find I get the same or better mileage at 65 as I do at more efficient 40-50 around town because I don't have to slow down.
PrimaryThis9900@reddit
Also the range numbers reported account for this, so if you just get it up to 70 and cruise you’re going to do much worse.
FrostyVariation9798@reddit
The first EV large trucks I've ever seen delivered and functioning normality were full sized garbage trucks. The start-stop-start helped them.
The same manufacturer had made some prototype road tractors, but they weren't really ready for prime time.
cbf1232@reddit
Technically it’s not that start/stop helped them, but that they didn’t just wast all the energy when stopping.
An EV will get much better efficiency maintaining a constant speed than doing start/stop resulting in the same average speed (since there are extra losses while decelerating and accelerating).
C0smic_Cunt@reddit
It depends, driving the interstate through Manchester or Franconia new Hampshire is an absolute nightmare of bumper to bumper traffic during rush hour.
Better-Credit6701@reddit
Maybe they can take lessons from F1 with their new 50/50 split on battery and ICE. They can only charge by coasting which is something not normal for them. Or normal for racing in general.
Velomelon@reddit
When they're coasting the ICE is revving and charging the battery though.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
They mostly charge by "super clipping" now because of how much energy they need to recover.
Uncle-Istvan@reddit
EVs are worse for longer highway trips where you have to stop to charge multiple times. They’re otherwise great for highway driving.
160 miles with an EPA range of 300 is no problem. If it’s super cold, night, and precipitating, you might push it.
anarcurt@reddit
It's not even a problem on long trips unless you absolutely must arrive the fastest you possibly can. Stopping every 3 hours to eat, hit the bathroom, and grab a coffee isnt some big inconvenience. I took my first real big road trip in my EV this Christmas and it was the best trip I've had. I didn't have the typical drain I usually get. Each leg was 700+ miles. The ride was better; I don't think people realize how the noise and vibration of a gas car actually affects them on a long ride. My car also self drives on the highway so that's another plus.
Uncle-Istvan@reddit
It’s more the length of the stops than frequency. I did a 700 mile day recently in a rental minivan and it was way better than having done it a couple years back in the EV, despite the EV doing a lot more of the driving for us.
Sad-Celebration-7542@reddit
All cars perform worse at higher speeds.
MirageGarage16@reddit
What do you mean? Highway driving in an ICE car uses less mpg, and is far less wear on the car. Other than tire wear I cant understand your statement.
MrRogersAE@reddit
ICE cars perform worse in the city because of the stops and starts and idling time. If you drove an ICE car at a consistent 50km/h on the highway your mini league would outperform both highway and city mileage.
The reason EVs perform better in the city compared to ICE is that they don’t waste energy idling, and the regain a portion of the power used to accelerate when braking, but an EV would still be more efficient in that same 50km/h on the highway.
All else being equal Higher speeds are always less efficient because of the wind drag, regardless of how you power the car
Hunefer1@reddit
This is not correct. ICE cars at a constant speed have their efficiency peak at around 70km/h. There are several effects at play, air resistance decreases effieciency with increased speed, but at lower speed, the efficiency of the engine itself is lower and the rolling resistance is higher. At around 70km/h the sum of those effects has the least impact.
MrRogersAE@reddit
The only part that is TECHNICALLY incorrect is “higher speeds are always less efficient”
An ICEV peak efficiency will be dependent on the vehicle itself, they do not have a uniform peak of 70km/h, I also never said anything about peak efficiency.
A constant 50 will still be more efficient than city driving or highway in both EVs and ICEVs, which was the overall point I was making.
Maybe 60 would be better than 50 but that’s not the point I’m making here
Hunefer1@reddit
You can drive your ICE vehicle at a constant 70km/h on the highway and will be more efficient than at a constant 50km/h. And 70km/h is the rough average, of course it slightly depends on the car but 99% of ICE cars are more efficient at a constant 70km/h than at a constant 50km/h.
"All else being equal Higher speeds are always less efficient because of the wind drag, regardless of how you power the car" is not technically incorrect, it's just plain incorrect.
MrRogersAE@reddit
The point. You missed it, and I already agreed to your technicality, thanks for reiterating it for no reason at all.
For your information one “well, actually…” is sufficient a second after the first is agreed to is just fucking annoying.
Hunefer1@reddit
It's not a technicality, it's the whole point of the discussion. The initial comment was "All cars perform worse at higher speeds.", which is also wrong.
The correct part of your comment is "The reason EVs perform better in the city compared to ICE is that they don’t waste energy idling, and the regain a portion of the power used to accelerate when braking, but an EV would still be more efficient in that same 50km/h on the highway." but I don't see how it contributes to the question if cars perform worse at higher speeds or not. For every car, there are tons of different speed dependent factors which contribute and taking all of them into account you can find the speed where the car performs best with regards to efficiency.
MrRogersAE@reddit
Goodbye, this conversation is pointless
MirageGarage16@reddit
Highway driving uses less brakes, wears all parts out less and uses less mpg. People want to buy cars with highway miles because they’re easier on the car. EV propagandists love to ignore manufacturing cost, maintenance and the cost of disposal at the end of the cars life.
MirageGarage16@reddit
Thats exactly what I’m saying. Thanks for a pretentious explanation of information already conveyed
Sad-Celebration-7542@reddit
Driving 85 will result in lower mpg than 55 mph. Agree?
MirageGarage16@reddit
Oh nice nice. You edited the comment to say higher speeds rather than highway speeds. Now I understand you. ✌️
MirageGarage16@reddit
Depends on the gearing of the car, but largely yes.
Those are both highway speeds so how does that equate to a car performing better in town than in a highway? Stoping and going while averaging 10-20mph is more wear on parts and uses more gas than going 85 or 55.
mydb100@reddit
Highway commuter here, does my ev9 only get 3km/kWh on the 65km journey from my driveway to my parking spot at work(on the edge of my local metro area) yes. But I get to plug in at work so its pretty much free
bmad4u@reddit
No
Mountain_Usual521@reddit
EVs are better on the highway because you don't have to stop or slow down much, if at all. They get a bad rap because people don't understand that wind resistance is proportional to the square of your speed. That means it takes 56% more energy to counter wind resistance at 75 mph than it does at 60 mph. If you can get 300 miles on a charge at 60 mph, you'll probably only get about 200 - 225 miles at 75.
Nelgski@reddit
Ignore the asinine comments on highway use. Most are from people that don’t own them.
A 300 mile range EV will absolutely do a 160 mile round trip at 75-80 MPH at 40 degrees out with miles to spare
Now, if you are driving 80 MPH in single digit temperatures, it’s going to get tight.
Now add in the fact that it fills at home while you sleep, no oil changes, there gobs of immediate torque, a super quiet ride and you get to laugh at $4 a gallon gasoline, they are pretty cool.
Ireaditlongago@reddit
That $4 range is nothing to laugh at yet. With the rising prices of electricity and the break even point for charging at is $3.60 it's a close call for now. Who knows if those grid companies will continue to raise rates proportionally by blaming AI data centers that none of us can validate.
Nelgski@reddit
I'd love to see your math on that one.
My last weekend ski trip was 144 miles round trip, my recharge at home cost was $6.50 total and I pay .122 a KWH. A 325 HP 440FT lbs of torque gas car equivalent is going to get 22 maybe 23 miles per gallon. So 144 miles at 23 MPG is 6.25 gallons of fuel so that's $25 in fuel.
If my electric rate triples and goes to .36 a KWH, I'm still at $19.50, which is less than $25.
That's also assuming that gas is $4 and not $4.30 like I'm starting to see around here, and it's assuming the gas car uses regular 87 octane and doesn't require premium to get the performance. AWD gas cars that deliver the same performance that I'm getting our of an EV typically European, turbocharged and require premium. So 6.25 gallons at $5.50 for premium is $34.38, (Five times more then the EV). And the car itself isn't going to be $45k, it's $65k for something close and likely more for something that performs close like an Audi SQ5.
So quadruple the price for fuel, more maintenance, and pay thousands more for the car to start with or have to deal with a low performance hybrid to save on the car cost, but still spend twice as much on energy.
Ireaditlongago@reddit
I didn't do the math, AI did. Its main point was there's an inefficiency at the point of charging, meaning what you put into your car as its charging isn't 100% going into it. Because of heat through wire resistance etc. That brings the break even point higher. Also your "mpg" equivalent speaks to how efficient your battery is in giving you 2.5 miles per kilowatt hour etc.
You have to also take into account the differences in kilowatt hour in each state. NJ for example is pretty close to 30 cents per kwh.
Nelgski@reddit
(AI did) Sorry, that's all I need to know.
So an engineer with two years of EV ownership under my belt and you don't think I know how to do math? You don't think I understand what miles per kWh are?
Are you really citing charging losses when over 65% of the energy from gasoline is wasted out the tail pipe? Even the most efficient ICE cars on the road today are only putting about 35% of that energy onto the ground in forward motion. I'm perfectly happy with my 10-13% charging loss. ICE isn't even in the same realm when it comes to efficiency and performance. Every time an ICE car shifts, it looses torque, every hill you come to it has to downshift, make a ton of noise and burn way more fuel just to maintain speed. Every time you hit the throttle to pass or move into a spot in traffic it has a delay while it spins up and finds a gear to move the car at a faster rate of speed.
The EV is just immediate response, quiet, smooth, highly efficient and it fills with energy while I sleep.
Find me a small ICE crossover that I can shove six pairs of skis in, two passengers and gets 80+ MPG and does 0-60 in 4.5 seconds.
Ireaditlongago@reddit
I agree with you completely. AI is pretty spot on with the inefficiency calculation and kwh utility rate vs. EV range efficiency. Its easier to see all the math laid out and spot check it. There's also the Lexus app and kWh meter at home so its pretty straightforward in terms of $3.60 break even. I actually own a PHEV and love the EV only mode. All valid points from you though.
Just recently saw some news article headline 10 minutes of charging gets 300 miles range. Problem solved. In about 5 years, ICE (not the immigration kind) will be a thing of the past reserved for those who need to feel nostalgic.
GeckoV@reddit
The only reason why EVs are problematic are in areas with poor charging infrastructure. For everything else they are a technological and experience leap that makes ICEs seem ancient. That is even excluding any environmental questions.
New_Line4049@reddit
The problem is, there are a hell of a lot of places around the world with down right dire charging infrastructure.
Colalbsmi@reddit
I love my gas powered cars but the fact that my apartment and job both have free charging really makes me consider an electric car.
TheKingOfSwing777@reddit
Wow you'd be saving tons of money every year if you switched.
Colalbsmi@reddit
But would I be happy?
bruh_the_person@reddit
If you’re a car enthusiast, you probably wouldn’t be happy if it’s your only car because there’s not much emotion in EVs
Dan6erbond2@reddit
I'm a car guy and I'm not going to act like EVs replace the ICE experience. I really like my S5 and it just feels incredibly powerful and fun to drive, but I've recently been looking at and test driving EVs as a second car and the Alfa Romeo Junior was an absolute blast. We're in the midst of buying one and I didn't expect a $25k base EV to be more fun than BMWs and Audis, but it's like driving a go-kart. Let alone the Veloce we're looking at with 280HP at <1'500kg.
TheKingOfSwing777@reddit
Right. I think there's a new appreciation needed for something that "feels" powerful (nice exhaust note / rumbly) vs something that actually is.
Dan6erbond2@reddit
Well, no, lol. Most EVs aren't more powerful than my S5 in any meaningful metric especially not the Junior Veloce. And let's be honest comparing powerful ICEVs with EVs like the Plaid, Taycan, etc. is disingenuous because they're a hell of a lot more expensive for a lot less drama.
I'm just saying it can be a lot of fun to sit in a "commuter" car that handles well, has a fun electric sound and competently manages its weight. The Junior is extremely light for what it is which contributes to that so it has a go-kart feel compared to the S5 which is planted and a lot more powerful.
TheKingOfSwing777@reddit
The S5 has about 360 HP and 400lb/ft torque, weighs minimum 3800 lbs, and starts at $63k. The Tesla Model 3 Performance has 510hp, 550lb/ft of torque, weighs 4000lbs, and costs $55k and is faster in basically every meaningful metric. That's plenty more examples less expensive than your car Ioniq 5N, Kia EV6 GT that are excellent comfy commuter cars and also monsters on the track.
When you get up into Taycan Turbo S and Plaid territory you're talking about the fastest accelerating cars ever made period and quite a bit more expensive but Ferrari killers all the same for half the cost. A Plaid is only like $80k.
Dan6erbond2@reddit
Good thing my S5 makes more than 510HP and 550lb/ft of torque, not to mention the Model 3 might be quick but it genuinely sucks to drive.
TheKingOfSwing777@reddit
I think it's disingenuous to talk about your car with heavy mods as if it's stock when comparing with other stock cars.
Dan6erbond2@reddit
You can barely tune Teslas except for upgrading through software, so I can't compare what doesn't exist with EVs.
Either way modding the S5 is part of the fun - just another thing that IMO makes ICEVs a very enioyable experience for enthusiasts.
For an A to B car EVs are superior. As long as you can solve charging.
af_cheddarhead@reddit
I have just as much fun driving the i3 as I do the S2000, it's just a different kind of fun.
reidft@reddit
I dunno I felt plenty of emotions mashing the pedal in my phev
GeckoV@reddit
I completely disagree. The instant torque and acceleration are extremely enjoyable, especially how that works out of corners
bruh_the_person@reddit
I mean, PHEVs aren’t the same as EVs unless you mean in full EV mode, I always feel underwhelmed slamming the pedal in a PHEV in EV mode feels like my foot is on the ground and I’m inching to 60
reidft@reddit
I do mean in full EV mode, running my Volt in hold mode was pitiful. In electric mode it was nuts until about 35mph when it started to lose guts. A full EV would be even better
John_cCmndhd@reddit
More than there is in a CVT though
Logical_Sort_3742@reddit
Well, it really does depend on how much of your life rotates around your means of transport, I guess. I hope your happiness doesn't center on that, more than it centers on what iphone you have.
At the end of the day, all the cars you don't attach real sentimental value to are appliances.
the_real_log2@reddit
Are the chargers at your apartment or work always full? If they are, it may not be for you. Hang out for a bit at the chargers at your apartment, go and talk to someone charging their car. They'll be more than happy to talk to you about how much more fun they are to drive, but they'll also be able to give you insights about your local charging. Especially idle fees at your apartment or locations of close chargers.
But overall, the driving experience is exponentially better than an average gas car. It boggles my mind that people in 2026 that own a house still choose to buy a car with thousands of moving parts vs an EV with barely any. Electric motors are significantly more reliable than gas engines, they run continuously in industrial settings for many years.
jzach1983@reddit
Depends what you current car is and you expectations to be happy.
orangeducttape7@reddit
I absolutely love mine, and I could never go back to driving a combustion engine. And I say this for reasons of enjoyment and car enthusiasm. I have an Ioniq 5, but the instant acceleration is common to most EVs.
healthycord@reddit
Why wouldn’t you be? Does vroom vroom noises give you dopamine, or does instant speed and torque? EV’s are super fun to drive, even the cheap ones like a Chevy bolt. Instant torque. They still make a noise but it’s an electric coil whine thing that is also cool sounding when accelerating.
We own an EV and an ICE vehicle. The ICE did replace a Tesla, but once this Subaru dies (hopefully in a long time) it will be replaced with an EV. Our Chevy bolt is the primary vehicle. But since its range is rather lacking, we use the Subaru for our longer trips outside of the greater city area.
DeeVeeOus@reddit
I smile every time it throws me back in the seat off the line from a stoplight.
TheKingOfSwing777@reddit
I dunno probably. Have you driven one yet? I went to drive a Telluride and left with an EV6 cause it was just that much better. ICE cars feel like dial-up after you've driven an EV. There are exceptions of course.
squirrel8296@reddit
I would have switched in a heartbeat if I was in that situation. The only reason I bought a gas vehicle again was specifically because the only charging options I would have had to an EV were super expensive public charging.
UkraineIsMetal@reddit
To be honest, EVs are only problematic in very specific circumstances that only an unfortunate subset meets. One circumstance is having no access to an outside 110v outlet at all. Then an EV makes no sense. The other one I can think of off the dome is only having a 110v outlet accessible but commuting >40 miles per day.
Otherwise, for the vast majority of the population, EVs make sense from a financial perspective. If someone wants to drive internal combustion, great. But they might as well just say "I want to drive a gas car."
SaysIvan@reddit
This is my biggest point. I was an EV hater for nothing more than hating the “soulless experience” that I never actually experienced.
Rented an EV (it was the cheapest option) to drive from AZ to central CA.. and the car was great! Other than the charging aspect. Having to plan that route was a bit tough and mid summer really made charging slow and I think drained the battery faster. In areas where charging stations were plenty and I wasnt traveling distance, I loved it.
Not for my current lifestyle as I travel a lot, but as a secondary “get around town and back” or trips where you know the infrastructure is good, its great. Once the infrastructure catches up, I ca see myself swapping over.
MountainFace2774@reddit
This is where I'm at. I live very rural and don't have a garage. I could still theoretically ad a charging station at home and an EV would suit most of my needs as a commuter.
However, I'm currently driving a 26 year old ICE car that costs almost nothing to own that gets 35+ mpg and I paid $5k for it 13 years ago. If I could buy an equivalent cheap EV, it would be a no-brainer. But the cost of the car plus the cost of the charging would never actually save me anything. I barely put 3,000 miles a year on my car.
As far as "soulless", most modern ICE cars fit squarely into that category so that's a non-issue for me.
SaysIvan@reddit
Yea, when I was car shopping I settled on a Hybrid Maverick. If I was not traveling by road as much as I do, I would have settled with an EV.
For someone ALREADY with a working vehicle thats paid off/close to paid off.. the math isnt great. Put into debt to purchase a car that will “save you money” doesn’t work.
Awkward-Spare-6463@reddit
I have been thinking about getting an EV and yes I will save money on the gas, but approximately how much more will my electric bill be in a month for having to charge the EV at home? Also is there an average price to charge at EV stations around town? (I know this will be different depending on where someone lives, just looking for ballpark info) TIA!
dastardly740@reddit
The trick is with all the information an EV typically provides like miles/kwh. It is easy to notice the difference between 80 and 70 mph. Particularly, when driving significant distances. Highway driving at 80 for your commute and charging at home every night, no big deal. 360 miles from LA to SF charging only to 80% at the charging station, then 70 instead of 80 can be the difference between charging twice or one time. Particularly when your end point involves 120V/12A charging, and you might be doing some local driving before getting an overnight charge, so you want a chunk of charge left for that. Then, do it about 4 times at different speeds, so you can see the difference.
Ragnarok112277@reddit
Laughs until you have to replace the battery pack.
I've got a 30 year old ICE with original engine and transmission.
I think EVs are neat but let's not act like they dont have any downsides
Nelgski@reddit
At 250,000 miles, I’m done with the car anyway. The drive battery packs last as long as a modern engine.
We hit the pinnacle of ICE reliably in the early 2000’s. Post Great Recession and tighter CAFE standards, drivetrains have become less reliable than anything from the late 90’s to early 2000’s.
440 fr lbs of instant torque to all four wheels for about .05 a mile energy cost? Yes please!
unmanipinfo@reddit
Most of us are, or have been, poor and have happily bought cars at 250k miles and driven them fairly reliably for another 100k miles. Hopefully EV's can get to that kind of economic.viability eventually - but the general trend of the automotive industry is toward maximum profiteering disposable cars regardless of ICE or EV
Nelgski@reddit
2000-2008 era vehicles were the pinnacle of reliability, nothing available today will be on par aside from maybe a Corolla or Prius.
Thinner oils, complex valve trains, bazillion speed transmissions, more screens than a cineplex.
They all suck, but at least EV’s make economic performance that ICE cars can’t compete with. And we are just at version 1.x of EV’s for the most part. They are only going to get better.
unmanipinfo@reddit
Agree, although 90s was also peak in everything but crash safety and emissions though. The cars were nicer looking, fun to drive, still reliable and made good power for what they were and the fuel mileage they got.
If I could buy a small and lightweight EV, I would. And I mean properly lightweight, like 90s hatchback lightweight. Imo that is the best type of commuter.
outline8668@reddit
I really like them on paper and the low fuel cost but as a mechanic by trade I am just so done with anything that contains modern electronics.
ecobb91@reddit
Plenty of EVs easily hitting 300k on original battery packs. Let's add up all the routine ICE maintenance though the 30years and see how much that costs vs theoretically replacing the battery once in those 30 years. Let's also include how much less expensive it is to drive the EV per mile than an ice vehicle.
Sure they've got some legitimate downsides like extreme cold, longer charging times on road trips & lack of infrastructure in remote places.
Many-Pomegranate-33@reddit
Yeah those battery pack prices are worth more than entire vehicle at certain lifespans.
TheTrailrider@reddit
Can vouch for this comment. I've owned an EV for 7 years (115k miles) and I'm able to get to where I want to go just fine. As of recently, I was able to go to Santa Fe, NM from Denver and back just fine. I've driven through extreme cold before, I'm able to make it just fine too.
There's still ongoing growing pains with the charging infrastructure, but it's definitely better now than 5-7 years ago with a lot more fast chargers being built. It will continue to get better if people just build more, I promise. I feel a lot less anxiety with range now with a lot of chargers around today compared to a few years before. There's literally electricity everywhere, just we just gotta open it up by setting up stations and cables, or at least provide an outlet (preferably 240v but 120v works just fine) for people to plug in their personal mobile charging cable.
af_cheddarhead@reddit
South of Castle Rock the charging infrasturcture gets pretty thin if you don't have a Tesla, but it is slowly getting better.
sault18@reddit
And people will just be floored at how many wall outlets there are that can be very useful in trickle charging their EVs overnight. Also, if they check plugshare.com, there are probably way more charging stations out there than they realize.
Chemical_Support4748@reddit
Only 160miles?
cbf1232@reddit
At very cold temps it’s absolutely possible to lose half your range.
outline8668@reddit
Absolutely. My boss had a 60 mile each way commute to work he bought a base model EV and learned the hard way he should have went with the bigger battery model. In the winter when it got cold like below 0f he had to drive his gas car because the EV could not make it to work and back with the heater on.
thelazygamer@reddit
My apartment has zero charging spaces for electric vehicles and most charging stations are incredibly expensive in comparison. I'd absolutely consider an EV if I had the option to charge at home. Unfortunately, I can't afford to buy a house.
Sindica69@reddit
This is 100% correct ^
I’ve done many highway trips in both cold and hot weathers with my EV. They hold up just fine.
ZergvProtoss@reddit
I heard that ICE cars are bad for highway use because the drag makes them burn more gas, so they can't go as far as they can if they just went 25mph downhill.
RHS1959@reddit
They are great as long as you’re not going further than your max range. Charging infrastructure is improving, but you still have to find a (working) charger and spend 30-90 minutes there. Filling a gas tank is faster and easier.
schaden81@reddit
And far more expensive
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
Oh really? Show us your math.
schaden81@reddit
Sure, I'll feed 1 troll. I just sold my 2015 Civic, where 1 tank of gas would get me about 450-500km, for ~$70 a fill. I bought an EV, where I get about 400km per charge. Charging publicly costs ~$15, and charging at home costs a third of that. So yes, the running cost is significantly cheaper. The purchase price, not much more with all the current rebates and incentives.
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
sorry I though you meant charging was far more expensive. A lot of anti-ev bullshit on the internet gets me pissed off.
schaden81@reddit
Fair. There seem to be a lot of people that think oil is the only way forward, probably because they or someone they know made good money in it.
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
I think there are a lot of people in power that made a lot of money off oil and are pushing an anti-ev agenda. There's no other way to explain the anti ev hate. If you offered anyone a car that had 600hp, no maintenance, and didn't require gas, 30 years ago, they'd have fallen all over themselves to take it.
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
You do not own an ev. Stop sharing false information.
RHS1959@reddit
Rented one and drove it all over the UK.
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
And you charged for 90 minutes while on a road trip,
RHS1959@reddit
Usually co-ordinated charging and meal breaks or went walking around the town, but once or twice we sat and read a book for a while. Worked for us. Why so hostile?
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
the amount of disinformation on the internet is unbelievable. I even get it at work. Some red hat will talk shit about my range on a cold day. It's Florida, a cold day is mid-50s.
New_Line4049@reddit
There's a huge "it depends" Drag increases significantly with speed, so the big question is at what speed was the 300 miles range calculated at? Usually they figure out what they think is a likely real world average speed across all types of driving, often around 50MPH, and base range on that. On the highway youre often going to exceed this speed so youll loose out on range, but you make it up again in urban areas where you driving slower. Of course, if your journey is almost entirely highway, that equations not going to balance and you'll loose out overall. Also worth bearing in mind its in the manufacturers interest to post the best range figure they can so theyll ensure optimum conditions during testing.
You can of course reduce the loss by driving slower on the highway... but that does tend to upset others somewhat.
Worth noting that temperature also has a huge effect on expected range. In cold conditions youll get less range out of a charge.
Its impossible to say for sure weather youll make the 160 mile round trip. In theory there's a lot of excess range there, but there are too many unknowns, cold weather and an EV that suffers particularly bad range loss at high speed could easily eat that up, but good weather and an EV thats well aerodynamically designed and youll likely be fine. The other thing Id co sider though is contingency range. What if you get diverted due to an accident or road works and have to do more miles as part of the diversion? Maybe youre lucky and youre diverted past a charge station. Maybe youre not and you add 20 miles to your route with still no charge options.
AdmirableBoat7273@reddit
Ev's are highly efficient so they are primarily impacted by air resistance which increases with the square of the speed, so you can easily loose >30% range by traveling at 75mph.
MrRogersAE@reddit
They don’t perform poorly on the highway. The range is slightly reduced because of the wind drag, but not ridiculously so, of course it’s worse the faster you go, but the same is true of a gas vehicle.
The reason people say EVs are bad in the highway is because the energy consumption is worse at high speeds because of the increased wind drag. This is logical. The real issue is that ICE vehicles are particularly bad on city streets because of wasted fuel idling and from constantly accelerating after braking. Because of this ICE vehicles have a backward fuel consumption.
If you drove either an EV or ICE at a consistent 50km/h without stopping both would outperform their highway AND city mileage.
EVs outperform ICE at both city and highway, the difference is greater in city driving because of ICE inefficiencies.
Governmentwatchlist@reddit
I drive the shit out of mine on the interstate. Fuel is so cheap I might as well go 75-80. In my truck I go 65 to conserve fuel.
I_Fix_Aeroplane@reddit
They're less efficient on the highway, sure. Still far better energy efficiency than an ice vehicle. Currently less ideal for road trips but for daily driving they're more than adequate. Bad? Nah.
Emotional-Buddy-2219@reddit
EV range is rated using battery pack size and 55% city driving efficiency and 45% highway driving efficiency so if you drive all highway you get less than rated range. I bet you could do the 160 miles round trip but it may be cutting it close… you can use the route planer on Tesla’s website to see what it says for your trip and assume that it will either be about that or worse with other EVs that are lower MPGe rated
sidEaNspAn@reddit
You will not get the same advertised range if you are doing a lot of highway driving.
That estimated range is obtained by running a model car through a benchmark. The benchmark is the same for ICE vehicles and EVs, but because EVs can re-gen when stopping they get a boost from the city driving part of the model which includes a lot of stop and go.
All vehicles are much more efficient at lower highway speeds, that is why the highway speed limit was lowered to 55 MPH during the last oil crisis. So speeding is not advised if you are looking to maximize range.
Heavy_Law9880@reddit
No, they are far superior to ice powered vehicles.
drivera1210@reddit
I feel like on road trips the lack of EV infrastructure forces EV drivers to be as efficient as possible . Whereas when your drive ICE vehicle the goal is to get there as fast as possible.
4X4NDAD@reddit
I’m averaging about 3.2 miles per KW. Average speed is 62.5. 125 miles round trip for work every day. 2025 ID4 Pros RWD. My 3rd Ev. 74,000 miles on 1st, 84,000 on second. Currently at 5000 on the Pro S. Solar on the house, charging is cheap. Only major maintenance is tire balances/ alignments/ tires, wipers. It’s been perfect for the freeway. I’m usually on cruise at 82mph up to 45 minutes at a time. Passing trucks, monsoon crosswinds it’s stable. Nice ride. It’s not great at any one thing, but superb for the daily grind.
syP_86@reddit
Yes, it's inverse of a combustion engine... Worse mileage on the highway versus city.
Hutcho12@reddit
It's the inverse in theory, but it's not the inverse in terms of efficiency.
EV's are way, way more efficient than ICE's in city traffic (slow speeds, start and stop a lot). On the highway, they are much closer to ICE's because they don't get the advantage of regenerative breaking and they still need to deal with the exponentially increasing air resistance. In terms of energy used though, they are still more efficient than ICE's in all cases, they're just much, much more efficient in the city.
AJHenderson@reddit
Much closer is relative though. A fully charged battery in my 300 mile range EV is the energy equivalent of less than 2.5 gallons of gas.
osmiumblue66@reddit
To a degree this is true.
Hybrids and EVs suffer at higher speeds, but still outperform standard engine vehicles for fuel economy. However, above 65mph, there is loss of range to consider due to additional wind resistance.
However it is usually cheaper to recharge vs refuel and routine maintenance is usually less expensive for EVs. However, there are also major maintenance issues to take into account for EVs that are not cheap, mostly related to battery temp control.
Like anything else there are compromises. But you can fill up your PHEV or EV at home, which can be a real time and money saver.
Complex_Solutions_20@reddit
>usually cheaper to recharge vs refuel
Not what my friends have experienced. One of them who visits my roomate regularly paid a fair portion towards our $3000 upgrades to put in EV outlets because it was costing them MORE money at superchargers than their old V8 premium-gas-only luxury SUV cost to visit us.
LavishnessOk6635@reddit
If it cost you $3000 you need a different electrician
Complex_Solutions_20@reddit
The quotes we got ranged from $2,700 to $12,000 depending on whether they did a subpanel and moved breakers or a full panel replacement
I am surprised that they said we didn't need to upgrade from 200A service...which would have been much more expensive. When both heat pumps kick into aux-heat that alone is using up half the capacity of the panel (25kW) before you consider anything else in the house.
Dan6erbond2@reddit
Why were they charging at superchargers all the time? Fast charging is there for when you're doing a long distance trip and need to charge along the way. Use a slower charger or home charging for daily needs especially if your EV is just sitting somewhere while you're working, at the gym or running errands. I looked at different EVs and for $35 I can get about 600km of range which is better than the $85 I pay to fill my S5 for 540km at best.
It's like not checking the price of gas and complaining that filling up was more expensive because you went to the station that just happened to be on your route.
Complex_Solutions_20@reddit
Yeah to visit us they were because they are about 230 miles away and can't make it on one charge even starting at 100% door to door with a Model Y LR...and plugging into the outlet on our porch with an extension cord to the driveway (the nearest outlet) in winter was taking like 5-6 days to charge back up arriving with a near-dead battery and sometimes losing % while plugged in overnight or tripping the shared 15A breaker the outdoor outlet is on.
Since they couldn't charge up enough to make it back home for a weekend visit they'd have to hit 3 different superchargers in the course of the weekend visit to make it here and back home.
deezbiksurnutz@reddit
They also seem to eat through tires much faster
No-Fix2372@reddit
Just replaced my tires at 32,500 miles. The torque and weight can certainly eat through tires.
osmiumblue66@reddit
Haven't had that experience.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
That doesn't make them bad on the highway though.
seckarr@reddit
No, it just makes them worse than ICE.
ICEs are very inefficient at start stop traffic but are very good at sustained high speed.
Unless you have a personal charging station at home, it might actually be CHEAPER to use a diesel engine for a long trip versus public charging
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
It does not. It makes them equivalent. Ice (diesel or gas) do not get more efficient at highway speeds. If you plotted energy efficiency vs speed for battery, diesel, gas, natural gas, etc you would get the same curve for the same aerodynamic shape. And it would curve down as speed increased mostly due to increased friction.
Ice is inefficient because it idles and doesn't recover any energy when stopping. Highway travel just minimizes the opportunities for inefficiency
seckarr@reddit
Sure, if you wanna put it that way. Its the same thing i said
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
no you said "No, it just makes them worse than ICE." I can highlight the part that you italicized.
seckarr@reddit
Yes, exactly, you agree
ontheleftcoast@reddit
Its still cheaper to use the EV.
seckarr@reddit
Not really. Well unless youre a typical american who only sees Tesla or gas guzzlers and nothing inbetween
reidft@reddit
I went from a v8 suv to a phev as a daily. 3-4 months electricity/gas in the phev was equal to one week in the SUV. The gas savings driving to work covered the monthly payment, not even considering exclusively running on EV during the weekends.
seckarr@reddit
I mean a suv fits right in with dumb american gas guzzlers. Hybrids are way more efficient
ontheleftcoast@reddit
I compared it to a 2021 Toyota Hybrid that gets 37 MPG on the highway. It cost us $48 to drive 720 miles. The current US gas price is $3.97, so a car would need to use less than 12 gallons to beat that cost, so it would need to get 60 MPG. I'm not aware of any car sold in the US that can get 60mpg. If you have one please let me know
datoxiccookie@reddit
My Honda civic cost me $3000, cheap enough to offset 10 years of gas
Personal_Area_2173@reddit
Dude I get $7-8 per charge at home from low to high. If you can get 230 miles out of $8 then please tell me what car and where. Not to mention I have almost zero maintenance costs. Tires and maybe brakes in the life time I will own my car. That’s it. Sub $10 fill up’s and no yearly costs. Does yours match that? I paid 27k for mine with a trade only like 6k left over. I paid $50 to fill up the last ice I had 3 times a month. I charge my EV to about $45 a month.
bornagy@reddit
Not good at sustained high speed.aerodynamics Impact ICE the same way as BEV: the higher the speed the greater the air resistance.
Fickle_Finger2974@reddit
That’s not true at all
seckarr@reddit
Fully true
Fickle_Finger2974@reddit
EVs typically get about the equivalent of 100 mpg. Even fast charging is usually cheaper than a tank of gas. Even if it was twice as expensive as gas you would still break even. EVs are always cheaper than ICE
seckarr@reddit
Depends on locations, thats not really the case.
tnsipla@reddit
ICE are inefficient in general- around 30% of the energy in fuel is actually converted to motion.
seckarr@reddit
Old info
tnsipla@reddit
Let’s hear the new info then? Are we up to 60% with no heat out the exhaust now?
IAmBecomeTeemo@reddit
No it doesn't. Drag imposes the same exact penalty to efficiency to a car regardless of what powers it. ICEs aren't efficient at any speed, so the efficiency loss from drag at highway speeds is a relatively small percent of the total inefficiency. EVs are so much more efficient that the efficiency loss from drag at high speeds is a large percent of the total inefficiency. It becomes noticeable.
ICEs have a sweet spot where they're the least inefficient they can be. The efficiency of the powertrain itself improves at higher speeds, but drag increases as speed rises. So you can sit comfortably at 45-60 mph and think you're efficient as fuck, but you're still spending more energy than an equivalent EV would at that speed (similar weight and drag coefficient). You'll travel longer on a tank than a full battery because gas and diesel are dramatically more energy dense than current electric batteries. But at no speed is an ICE using energy more efficiently than an EV.
ontheleftcoast@reddit
For the larger EV trucks, a recent study says you are correct. Because of the additional weight required for the massive batteries trucks like the cybertruck or the Ford Lightening weigh enough that they are about break even with ICE trucks in terms of dollars per mile. But for the cars its another story. That article came out before the recent gas price spikes however, so I think dollar wise, even the EV trucks are probably less expensive to run on the highway
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
Not even close to that. Unless you can name some 100MPG ICE.
seckarr@reddit
Nah, not even cose, some ICE diesel hybrids have amazin fuel efficiency, and electricity at charging stations is quite expensive.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
It's just not possible to be as efficient as an EV in any regime.
Velomelon@reddit
That depends on how the power is produced where you're charging.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
Not in terms of energy efficiency, but even in terms of pollution, electric wins unless you're using a consumer grade genset.
Velomelon@reddit
No. We're mostly on natural gas fired power plants here and an electric sedan pollutes more than the equivalent modern ICE car.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
Gas fired powerplants are way more efficient than an ICE in a car, like more than twice as much. And there aren't many places where that's the entire share of generation.
Even a decent coal plant is a lot better than an ICE car.
lt_dt@reddit
And in an ICE, around 70% of the fuel consumption is lost to heat. An ICE is fundamentally inefficient.
seckarr@reddit
Ohhh yes it is. Its what turned be away from an EV when getting my car a few months ago. Just be responsible and dont get a gas guzzler like a typical american
MsindAround@reddit
I will say in my short time as an EV owner I've actually seen the quick charge prices go down, used to cost around 0.54 per KwH. I hit a station for 0.34 per KwH this weekend, 16$ to charge up my EV F150 for a 200 mile trip.
I have been smug as hell with the rising gas prices
seckarr@reddit
That depends, fast charge kwh can go up to 0.6€ or more depending on time and there are insanely efficient diesel hybrids if you dont salivate over gas guzzlers
MsindAround@reddit
Well diesel prices near me are $5.19 a gallon. (At the Costco so hard to find better)
Surely it varys from place to place but that diesel hybrid truck would need to be around 64 mpg to match the cost efficacy of the EV.
spiritthehorse@reddit
Actual numbers please. You can’t run an argument on qualifiers only.
seckarr@reddit
Google is free.
Middle-Gas-6532@reddit
Yes EV's are worse. Let's take traveling at an average speed of 60 mph, you will find out that ICE cars beat their rated efficiency, while EV's constantly come under their rated efficiency.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
Even in cases where that's true, a bad EV (for efficiency) like an F-150 Lightning gets ~65MPG.
You're never going to find an ICE that uses less energy, it's fundamentally impossible.
Rambo_sledge@reddit
It’s worse only because of stored energy translating into range. Even on highways, Evs use much less energy than ICEs to keep going. Petrol is just very dense in energy
trader45nj@reddit
I'd like to see the math on that with diesel at $5.
itsjakerobb@reddit
It doesn’t make them worse. It just narrows their efficiency advantage a bit.
An EV at 80mph consumes battery much faster than it does at slower speeds, but it’s still massively more efficient than an equivalent ICEV at the same speed.
Internal_Essay9230@reddit
🏆
Moto909@reddit
Not with current and likely future diesel costs.
seckarr@reddit
Point there, sure, if diesel goes to 3-4 euros a liter then we will probably migrate to EVs. But considering the prices before the entire Iran debacle... you get it.
beaushaw@reddit
It doesn't make them bad on the highway. The advantages in stop and go are greater.
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
That is incorrect. You're comparing stop and go versus consistent speed. Ev>hybrid>ice in stop and go. At a consistent speed the efficiency will be the same depending almost entirely in aerodynamics and speed.
Internal_Essay9230@reddit
And traveling is when you're going to need fast charging, so ... $$$
AJHenderson@reddit
Where are you finding 160 miles with no charger? That's harder to do than you think it is. To put it in perspective, between my house and my parents house 660 miles away there are hundreds of Tesla charging stations and probably a couple thousand charging stations of any type with thousands of supercharger stalls and tens of thousands of fast charging stalls overall within a mile of my route.
Level 2 chargers are just about anywhere you go for destination charging.
I would expect it to be very hard to find someplace that your situation is a problem and even if you did, you could use a mobile charger at your destination and just plug into an outlet.
Mfalmepeladang2050@reddit
There's so many misinformation in this comment section.
The proper reason for the low range in highway speeds is due to Losses from magnetic flux.
Emotional_Cry_4066@reddit
300 miles range going 160 miles will most likely not be an issue unless it is below zero degrees Fahrenheit out.
NetFu@reddit
1800 mile round trip to Las Vegas from the Silicon Valley, paid $95 total at Super Chargers, which my Tesla auto-routed me to on my trip. It even changed which Super Charger I went to based on constantly updated live data about which ones were most full.
Teslas are by far the best highway EV's when it comes to road trips. Charging sessions were a bit more common than refueling diversions in our gas car would have been. But to be honest, half the time on a road trip like this, we're stopping more to go to the bathroom or get snacks/drinks than to refuel. So, it was close to the same.
The difference with our Tesla was we mostly timed our charging sessions with drink/snack/meal breaks and watched videos for the times we recharged.
Overall, the charging made practically no difference on the overall trip time and the cost of travel with an EV is less than 1/4 the cost of travel with a gas car of any kind, other than the most economical of gas cars.
Bottom line, my road trips on highways with EV's are typically the most enjoyable and stress-free that I ever have. I'm not frantically trying to figure out if the next gas exit is the one I should take, because the Tesla maps it all out, changing things en route when necessary.
horsimus@reddit
Internal combustion uses fuel while sitting still and crawling through traffic. It takes more fuel to overcome the inertia of a car at rest than it does to maintain momentum of a car that’s moving. And all momentum is wasted as heat when braking.
So internal combustion cars really start to deliver their best fuel economy at main road and highway speeds, where little is lost to braking or overcoming inertia. Climbing hills would be the exception here, as you’re overcoming gravity to various extents, depending on how steep the incline is, and possibly shifting to a less fuel-efficient gear.
Internal combustion cars are so bad at stop-start that even the exponential jump in wind resistance as speed increases isn’t enough to be that noticeable, unless you drive something with a massive frontal area and drag coefficient, or drive at very unsociable speeds.
EVs have really efficient motors that make lots of torque, and make pretty much peak torque from zero rpm. This has a drastic effect on the efficiency around town in that it’s actually efficient.
And because it’s so efficient around town, you then notice when aerodynamic drag plays a bigger role, like at highway speeds.
morosis1982@reddit
No, they're just not as good as they are for town/city use. You'll still get better fuel costs from a Taycan than a hybrid Corolla.
PlusPresentation680@reddit
Technically, no, but the faster you go, the more inefficient. A good highway speed to maximize range is 65 mph.
ZimaGotchi@reddit
You could be totally screwed. Fully electric vehicles are realistically only suited for urban use or commuting. You're not going to explore the country in one. Your specific example would probably be okay but then the next time you want to do a 220 mile one and you start worrying. Driving a vehicle you have to worry about takes the joy out of life.
NotYetReadyToRetire@reddit
No, they're not limited to urban use or commuting. My Ioniq 6 has been driven from SW Ohio to Vancouver BC (5,600 miles round trip), to Boston (1800 miles) and several trips to Knoxville. If you're not hell-bent on getting there as fast as possible, EVs are fine. I drive 2-2.5 hours, then stop for 25-30 minutes, no matter what I'm driving. All an EV does for me is change where I stop - chargers instead of gas stations, and a short walk to either a restaurant or a grocery store since I don't have to stay at the car while charging.
Worrying just means you didn't plan well. Plugshare will show you where the chargers are, A Better Route Planner will give you a route planned around the capabilities of your car.
Complex_Solutions_20@reddit
Ehhhhh...I was what-if-ing about an EV and looked at a trip to visit a friend (VA to TN) and according to ABRP using an Ioniq5 EV (one I was considering buying) it would require 3 charging stops totaling about 70 minutes to get \~500 miles and that assumed I was willing to get down to 10% SOC before plugging in which doesn't leave much margin of error, plus arriving at 15% SOC when I got to my destination. I could do it with two 5 minute fuel stops in my gas car, never get appreciably below half, and arrive full.
One of the suggested stops was also like 5 miles or so out of the way off the highway...which is going to add drive time doubling back to and from the charger vs a truck stop that is right at the highway off ramp for gas/bathroom breaks.
NotYetReadyToRetire@reddit
If you're looking for the quickest possible trip, then yes, EVs aren't the tool for the job, at least for now. And you're absolutely right about charger locations vs gas pump locations - but the oil companies have been buying up those prime locations for decades.
Eventually, they'll start putting chargers in like that - Pilot/Flying J and Buc-ees have started doing that at some locations (Williamsburg KY and Kodak TN are ones I've been to). Even then, it's not going to be 5 minutes to charge, but I'd bet that your 5-minute stops aren't 5 minutes either. Yes, you can fill the tank in 5 minutes or less, but by the time you go to the restroom, maybe grab a snack or a drink, etc., you're going to be at least 10 minutes.
With an EV, you can overlap things - once you've started the charge, you can go do other tasks, you're not stuck there monitoring the gas pump. In my experience, it's still longer than a gas station/restroom/snacks/drinks stop, but it's more like 10-15 minutes longer instead of 20-25 minutes.
From your example, what were the chargers? If they're ChargePoint 50-62.5kW chargers, or Tesla Superchargers that max out at 97kW (older Ioniq 5/6) or 125kw (newer NACS Ioniqs), then it's going to take a lot longer than if they're EVgo or EA 350kW chargers. With 350kW chargers, the Ioniq 5 should be able to do 500 miles in 2 stops of under 20 minutes each plus a third of 5-7 minutes; that's what I'd expect from my Ioniq 6 that's built on the same eGMP platform.
It's still longer than in an ICE car, but I prefer driving the EV so I'm willing to spend that time. Other people will make that decision the other way, and that's fine - life would be miserable if everybody was just like me.
Complex_Solutions_20@reddit
The trips I've been on as a passenger with a friend in their Model Y seems like I end up needing a bathroom stop sooner than there's charging available...but then like 30-40 min later I'm not ready to stop again but we need to stop for charging so I'm kinda bored
For my what-if, ABRP suggested (in order) an EVConnect at a Buick dealership (86kW average reported, 180kW available, Electrify America at Sheetz (187kW avg reported, 350kW available), and Electrify America at a shopping mall (211kW avg reported, 350kW available)
If I get something, it'd be one of the current year/new models...I forget what I picked in ABRP since I was doing a what-if.
NotYetReadyToRetire@reddit
I've been looking at the Ioniq 9, but my wife's not ready to go all-EV and I don't want to part with my 6. But if you want luggage room, the 6 is definitely a non-starter - the trunk isn't quite large enough to hold two big suitcases.
Complex_Solutions_20@reddit
Yeah, that's probably a non-starter. I wish the Ioniq 5 was a touch less sloped glass but its a strong contender aside from the ICCU issues Hyundai keeps having. It seems to have an acceptable amount of space and if it could have a hitch-tray could easily accommodate the occasional "4 adults and luggage"
The Ioniq 9 looks VERY nice and has loads of room but is slightly bigger (longer) than I need. Also the 9 has a larger battery and longer range.
I think the Subaru Trailseeker will be "in-between those" sized...so that makes me quite interested.
NotYetReadyToRetire@reddit
You can get trailer hitches for the 5 and the 6; I'm thinking about putting one on my car so I can use my utility trailer to haul our recumbent trikes to the local bike trails.
Ioniq 5: stealthhitches.com/products/hyundai-hitch-shr62003#
Ioniq 6: stealthhitches.com/products/hyundai-hitch-shr62004#
maurizio_maurucio@reddit
This is not what I experimented.
I am driving an EV in western EU for 2 years. Most long drives in France. The network there is very well developed compared to other countries here. And it is not ok.
It works perfectly when everything is all right. But it is never always the case. For most long drive I had there were always issues. Software problem on this charger. Some car parked without charging on that charger...... Etc. And all those issues are making it terrible for me.
Also most station are designed for Gaz and electric chargers were added afterwards. Meaning it is not designed for it. You do not have a place to queue etc....
I am not saying EV are trash, things will most likely evolve in the right direction. But here in Europe we are not there yet.
NotYetReadyToRetire@reddit
We're not there yet in the US, either. It's possible, it's just not as convenient as it is in a gas car. Most of the chargers here are in separate facilities, often a couple of miles or more from the highway exits, while gas stations are clustered around the exits. Some of the gas station companies have begun to add chargers, but as you said, they're not as well designed as the gas pump areas are.
For most trips here, EV travel takes more planning than ICE travel does, but I prefer the EV driving experience enough that I do the extra planning. My 5600-mile trip took about 2 hours more planning than I'd have done for my wife's ICE car.
Our 1,800-mile Boston trip didn't take any extra time beyond opening Plugshare and looking at the charger density along the route - there were enough options that I didn't worry about picking primary and alternate locations.
On my road trips, I've encountered many chargers that haven't worked, but I've never yet come across a site where I couldn't get a charge. I've only had to wait for a charger twice - 10 minutes at one and 5 minutes at the other. In both cases, all of the chargers were working, they were just busy.
ZimaGotchi@reddit
My point is that a lot of people don't want to plan their trip from charger to charger.
NotYetReadyToRetire@reddit
Some people just shouldn't get an EV, just like some people shouldn't get PCs. If they're not willing to learn about something new, they should just not get that new thing. Problem solved.
Eventually we'll get to the point where they don't have to learn all that much, but the charging infrastructure just isn't there yet in some areas. Yes, gas stations are seemingly everywhere, but they've had 100+ years to proliferate.
Chargers aren't there yet - as far as I can tell, nobody's putting up highway signs for "Electrify America next exit" or "EVgo Exit 327 - 32 miles ahead" so you have to use other ways to find them. A Better Route Planner and Plugshare (or equivalents) are still needed, as are myriad charging company apps, unfortunately.
Moto909@reddit
There are a few highway signs now for charging.
LawnJerk@reddit
If chargers were as ubiquitous as gas stations, it might not be as bad but having to stop every 2 hours or so for 30 minutes becomes a pain. On a frequent 9 hour drive I do, I stop once for gas and food and another time or two at rest areas for 5 minutes.
EV is solid as a commuter car but there are tradeoffs when on long trips when I would rather get the road trip over with and get to my destination.
ZimaGotchi@reddit
Absolutely correct thank you.
Moto909@reddit
That’s why I ride my horse. Who wants to plan trips gas station to gas station? There’s stables everywhere.
ZimaGotchi@reddit
There are certainly more gas stations than there are stables.
HourAd5987@reddit
Ioniq 5 guy with a monthly 800 mile round trip from northern VA to western Ohio (through rural, mountainous wva and Pennsylvania). Agree with you 100%. Going from an ice wrangler to this has added 1/2 hour to the trip, but has also made the trip so predictable I don't mind it at all. I know when I eat/pee/get coffee etc. I was a little worried heading into winter doing these trips, but while yes, I lost some range in sub freezing temps, net result was still the same travel time (as long as I warmed the battery before charging). The compromise between ice and evs for road trips is almost a wash today, and if you get something like the new BMW with even greater battery capacity I'd say it's gone. I get the bias, the og 100 mile range city cars evs were what they were, but that's not current ev tech.
Moto909@reddit
I drove my Silverado EV across the mountain west with no issues. I used to make two stops with a gas truck when I went snowmobiling, I made two stops with my EV. Then I plugged in at my destination and slept on the floor in heated comfort saving hotel expense.
ZimaGotchi@reddit
You can stop anywhere for gas. You have to go to specific places to charge. Literally huge sections of the country are off limits for you.
Moto909@reddit
There are more gas stations than chargers right now. There were once more horse stables than gas stations… No, I can go anywhere I want between the range I have and DCFC charger availability. I can charge anywhere that allows me to use their electric.
ZimaGotchi@reddit
And when there were more stables than gas stations, cars were an inconvenient novelty that I wouldn't have seriously recommended anyone. It's cute that you feel like you're living in the future but fully electric vehicles are fundamentally impractical at this time. It's astonishing that I'm being downvoted for saying it on a sub supposedly for car guys.
Moto909@reddit
I’m not living in the future. I’m living in the present. Where my EV truck is practical and meets all my needs.
ZimaGotchi@reddit
Hey that's great but being a car guy isn't about having your needs met by your car it's about desiring joy and freedom that comes from the experience of driving not having an app lay you out a route from charger to charger. That's commuting, regardless of the distance.
Moto909@reddit
You were the one who brought up practicality. Now it’s about joy and freedom?
ZimaGotchi@reddit
I'm saying it is impractical for recreational driving, which is what was my impression was what OP was originally asking about.
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
You're full of shit and are making assertions without the knowledge or experience to back them up.
Jayfore@reddit
I leased a Bolt for 3 years. Fun little car but freeway speed chewed up the battery quicker and fellow Bolt owners would say to keep it under 60mph which is against my religion. Hot or cold weather reduced the range, AC killed the range. I loved the feeling of never even thinking about a gas station but it was replaced by frustrations with range and having to plan road trips around charging locations and charging times. I leased to try EV as an experiment because the deal was right, and then I switched back to gas after.
New_Amphibian_8883@reddit
Tesla Y. I think 65mph is the sweet spot. You're going to charge when your car tells you to anyway. The time you save going 75 instead of 65 is wasted because you'll charge longer when you stop.
geek66@reddit
I had to read the first sentence way too many times before I realized I was chasing nonsense
jebidiaGA@reddit
You'll be fine with 300 miles showing, and you need 160. I found that you'll lose around 20-30% for doing over 85 mph. There is a stretch from atl to Dallas where you can go 85+ for hrs and it's a big hit. Faster you go the less efficient it's going to be. Slow down to 70 and you'll get most of that back
gwestr@reddit
EPA range / 2 if you want to go 75-80 MPH.
tastygluecakes@reddit
EV's do just fine on the highway. It's just that EV's do SIGNIFICANTLY better than gas powered cars in city driving (for a number of reasons). Where as they are more similar on the highway.
Overall, regardless of engine type, highway driving is generally the most energy efficient way of getting around. Accelerating uses a lot more energy that coasting (duh), and with the aerodynamics of the typical car, somewhere between 55-65 mph is usually where energy economy peaks. Any faster, and the exponential friction of air resistance starts to hurt efficiency.
What that means is that a car traveling 80mph is working quite a bit harder than one going 60. If you are concerned about range (again regardless of fuel type), you should try not to speed.
ScaryfatkidGT@reddit
Constant wind resistance just effects there range more than it does inefficient ICE engines
It’s not bad for them or anything
Cambren1@reddit
160 miles for a car with 300 mile range should not be a problem at all. Hills are not a big issue, you make back power going down them.
TSLAog@reddit
Where are you that there is NO charging in an 80 mile stretch, North Dakota?
Anyway, yea you’ll be fine if you can keep it under 75mph typically most of the year. I can do 160 mile RT with my Tesla model-Y or Equinox EV.
If it’s VERY cold you may be cutting it close, but eve the you’ll likely be ok. Maybe consider charging on 120V at your destination in the winter if possible. Even 4 hours will add 20-25 miles.
PoopyInThePeePeeHole@reddit
Assuming you start at 100%, you're going to drive until you hit 20% and in my model Y, 5 years old with around 300mi range, I'm going to go about 150-200 miles going 70, depending on an array of factors, weather being biggest. Range goes down worst with higher speeds + cold temps. I usually budget for 2/3 rated range on a trip at highway speeds.
Then you charge to 80 in like 15-20 minutes, and continue on, with 10-20 minute stops to charge/pee/snack along the way
I figure, I usually make those stops anyway. And I'm never inconvenienced by trips to the gas station the other 99 percent.
That said, I'd have no worries doing your 160 mi trip.
AUCE05@reddit
They are about 30% heavier. That causes more tire and brake wear, meaning more pollution from microplastics, landfill, etc. For local road systems, they can cause more wear to the wearing surface.
Material_Expert2255@reddit
I just did 1000 miles. Its not bad.
More challenging finding chargers than anything.
Make sure you have a good route plan and backups.
onanonanon19@reddit
It is simple physics. Energy = 0.5MV^2
Doubling the speed requires 4x the energy.
BootyHunter767@reddit
You should easily make it 160 miles on a full charge unless you're towing a trailer or it's extremely cold or something abnormal
Zestyclose_Paint3922@reddit
Yes the 300 HP and 450 nm makes my tesla very bad at highways.
Miltthedog@reddit
You'll be good, just don't be a lead foot and use cruise control. I drive for Lyft with an EV with a $350 range andput almost the samee amout of miles you metion for your trip on it per shift. A full charge lasts me 2 shifts with 60-80 miles of range left over after i get home.
Final-Contract-6582@reddit
Depends. You are more limited in an EV. The batteries need to be at a designated temp range. If you are in an extremely hot/cold environment, your heat/ac could be affected. Also, there are speed at which the vehicle was tested at for optimal efficiency. It's likely going to be 65mph. Going 85mph+ will likely experience some trouble.
QualityPixel@reddit
Well, it kind of depends on the car. My Niro EV cruses exceptionally well going 80mph. But after a couple hours when I want to take a break and get a charge, well then that charge stop can take around 30-40 mins depending on where the next station is. But in a fast charging car like the EV6/Lucid/Taycan then the charge will only take 15-20 minutes every couple hours.
If you want to get an EV and are going to take it on road trips there are 3 things to currently consider (at least until there is perfect coverage on the map for fast charge stations).
-Vehicle range.
-How fast it charges (most ev's currently being sold charge pretty quick now, even the new Bolt).
-If there is good charger coverage in the area you want to visit (Yellowstone, Crater Lake, many rural areas still have poor coverage).
Moist-Yard-7573@reddit
The aerodynamic drag increases by 40% if you increase the speed from 110 kph to 130 kph. That’s just physics. There is also other drag forces like rolling resistance but at highway speed’s aerodynamic drag is the dominating factor.
OldGeekWeirdo@reddit
Due to aerodynamics, the drag on a car increases as a function of the square of the speed. So, it takes 4 times the power to go 50 MPH as it does at 25.
But the efficiency of a ICE drivetrain improves and reaches it peak at the highest gear. That improvement offsets the drag loss until you reach the top gear.
But the efficiency of an EV drivetrain is about the same at all speeds. So it's overall most efficient speed will be far slower than for a ICE car.
This becomes a bigger issue with hybrids. Hybrids are great around town. They do "ok" with long distance travel, but they can be less efficient than an ICE car due to the added weight of the batteries. If your daily commute is a lot of highway travel, a hybrid may not math out.
KostyaFedot@reddit
I just took big Mercedes EV SUV for weekly trip. It showed 350 km on full-page. This one costs fortune. I have no idea what kind of EV would show 300 miles on full charge. I'm also driving BMW, Volvo EV SUVs to same place. 180 km one way, half+ on 120+ kmph highway. The range on highway gets miserable. I have to change it to get back. And it is hustle. Park, walk, beg for tag, sign registration, find working charge, get back to it before office attendant leave, un tag, return tag. While every minute counts.
Every time I ride on my personal hybrid, it just two minutes to refull on night before or in the evening and it is good for another few days.
But if we ever get second car it will be small EV.
I drove office Pegeout 208e for six weeks in mild winter. Charging only at two offices. Lovely car, not those status whales.
fakegoose1@reddit
EVs perform best in stop and go traffic due to the regenerative braking. You can still use them on the high, they're just not as efficient.
Final_Instance_8542@reddit
Is said day trip in London or Montana? Location matters a lot with this question, also weather conditions, minus 32 degrees Fahrenheit in Montana i will surely suggest warm clothes and really good boots, gloves as you might be walking before you get to your destination and definitely will be before you get back home.
markuus99@reddit
A 160 mile trip with a 300 mile range car will always be doable. In really cold weather you might not have a lot of of extra range, but you'll usually be able to achieve over 200 miles between stops on a highway road trip. Will depend on how fast you drive primarily.
Also, the idea of there being no fast chargers available anywhere along you route seems very unlikely. Fast charging infrastructure has grown massively over the last few years, and most EVs can now use most of the Tesla Supercharger network which are available just about everywhere.
SneakyPetie78@reddit
My F-150 lightning "says" 320 mile range on a full battery. If I do 77 mph in the highway, I can get approx 230 miles.
320 would be under ideal consumption use, which is not seventy seven miles an hour.
Desert-Mushroom@reddit
I find my range dropping from just over 300 to just over 200 on highway driving. Its not unusable, it is much less convenient than gas though. I assume more aerodynamic models (mine is an ioniq 5) might take less of a hit.
Honestly the more annoying part is having to go several miles out of your way to find a charger instead of just grabbing gas right at the exit wherever is convenient.
Late-Button-6559@reddit
No.
But their economy is the opposite to conventional cars.
EVs are better in slow traffic, stop and start.
ICE cars are better loping along on the highway.
JayRexx@reddit
Physics yo! Pushing air at 75 chews up battery. I do this for 40 miles every day and have a level 2 charger.
Bryanmsi89@reddit
Fantastic to drive, lousy for long trips.
Highway is the fastest way to chew up battery and you have to stop usually every 2-2.5 hours for 20-30 minutes of charging. On a long trip, this can really add time vs a gas car.
toybuilder@reddit
It turns out that if you are mainly doing "up and over", you can end up being better off driving a straighter path like as the crow flies versus avoiding climbing by going around the hill if that results in a 30% longer distance. A big chunk of energy you spend going up is recovered coming back down.
EVs are much more sensitive to energy demand due to drag. If you drive at 75 MPH versus 60 MPH, that can result in a 15-25% range hit.
If you are talking about 160 miles total round-trip, that 300 mile capacity should be fine as long as you are driving at a moderate speed.
TheCamoTrooper@reddit
Yes, generally for highway trips there's less chargers available and you don't really want to be adding the time it takes to charge, EVs recharge when braking/slowing which you are doing very minimal amounts of on the highway, they're heavy and also greatly affected by temperature. Know multiple people where their EV has struggled to get to the city (350km) on a single charge in pretty mild weather (only -10⁰ C) when any of my gas cars could do it in half a tank or less
Day-Trippin@reddit
Few EVs get their rated change on the hwy and you'd understand why if you look at how the EPA test are done. They have a much lower hwy speed in the test than most people drive. So you are already starting with a false premise before you put one tire on the hwy.
It also assumes that you charge to 100%. You really don't want to do that if you can help it (for most battery chemistries other than LFP). Most places have superchargers or simiilar so easy to recharge.
Newbies think they should charge too high a SoC (state of charge) at each stop, which is inefficient. You want charge and scoot. Basically the car/truck charges more quickly in the 20-70% SoC range and slows down substantially above that.
Really 20-50% is the sweet spot for my Teslas and Rivian. So I will drive until I am in the 20% range, charge to 50% and scoot to the next charger. I spend less time charging that way as I am in the really fast part of the charging curve. I'll only charge higher if I can't make the next stop with at least 20% or I expect weather to impact my range.
Typically you don't want to let the charge drop below 20% to minimize wear on the battery. Whlle there is some buffer in the pack, driving down to 0% is generally very bad for the battery. I have minimal degradation on my batteries even after 4 years on some of my cars. I keep my resting battery at 50% and only charge more when needed. I live in a hot climate which is harder on batteries as well.
Complex_Solutions_20@reddit
Tho its kinda problematic if you are down to 10-20% and find out the charging station has a problem or a backup of people waiting.
One of the last times a friend of ours went from VA to NC they ended up at like 7% rolling into a supercharger that had 2 dead stalls and a line of cars...being the only charging station in the area they had insufficient power to get to anywhere else and had to wait about an hour for their turn to plug in
Day-Trippin@reddit
I use 20% as it gives me quite a bit of buffer. In my Tesla (and Tesla app which I use with my Rivian) it tells me available stalls to charge at. I will reroute if needed if there aren't many available stalls and maybe add a 5 min charge sooner.
ABRP generally does pretty well but you need to keep it connected to your car so it learns your car and habits.
With my 20% min at any charge station, I have never been caught out yet. As I mentioned though the sweet spot for charging is from lower SoC to about 50%.
I think this vid will help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n6JKpiDgfE&t=588s
Complex_Solutions_20@reddit
Interesting, didn't know there's a way to connect it to the car somehow. I'm not 100% sure about "always connected cars" at this point either - both from a security and a coverage/reliability standpoint. Last Halloween my friend went to "remote control move" his Tesla in our driveway and apparently the car didn't have enough cell coverage to be controlled so he had to get in it and move it "manually" as a driver. Only Verzion has kinda-okay-ish coverage and even that isn't great where I live.
I'll check out that video, thanks.
I think "eventually" EVs are the future. I'm not 100% sure if we're there yet but I'm VERY happy to see things moving a good direction. There are now EVSEs with longer cords (even 30ft is a huge improvement over what was out before, but I see some as long as 50ft which could work parked in a driveway plugged into an outlet at the front of a garage bay as is commonly done in homes built in the late 90s thru mid 2010s). And some of the routes I frequent now has "coming soon" charging stations along them, at least one with potential competing stations (Tesla and Electrify America kinda across from each other at competing WaWa/Sheetz). That's a good sign for sure things will get better if one station is full/down another may be available.
One of the things I'm interested more in EVs right now is because I've got a Subaru WRX which is causing knee pain being far enough forward to work the clutch properly...it was fun learning and still is fun but now developing joint pain makes it less fun to drive...and then I also don't have to be "the driver" since I'm the only one who knows how to drive stick I *have* to drive if we take that car. I don't have that problem with automatics where I can be far enough back to work the pedals and not hit knees on the dash.
Day-Trippin@reddit
With ABRP, you can connect it for many cars (Rivian and Tesla for sure) to send the telemetry data. It will build out your profile have realtime data to guide you. The more you use it, the better it gets. You can setup different profiles such as roof rack, towing, heavily loaded, and it will use those profiles to predict.
I am 100% EV for my daily drivers and what we road trip in. I do have some ICE motorcycles and a classic truck, but pretty much all in on EVs.
I don't miss clutches any more on my cars/trucks. The instant torque of an EV makes driving a lot more fun. Having a truck with supercar performance that consumes energy less than a Golf GTI, is even more fun.
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
You're doing it wrong and will get terrible results from abrp like that. You do not want to charge above 60%. 0-60% takes about 10 minutes with a model 3 at a supercharger. 60-80% takes another 15 minutes. 80%-100% is probably an additional 30+ minutes at least.
Complex_Solutions_20@reddit
Not sure how "doing it wrong" is...that's what ABRP recommended?
The only setting I could find was to do fewer/longer stops...so if its doing it wrong in "optimal" mode I don't know what else to try?
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
If you're trying to stay about 50%, you're going to be way off. Also you don't want to get above 60-70%, so your stops in wytheville and knoxville are going to be too long. 97% is way high. People are going to be looking at you funny if you're on the charger that long. No reason to roll into NAshville with 30%. There's plenty of chargers there, and where ever you're staying might have a regular outlet you can charge from.
Try changing the charger networks you're using. Make sure it's including teslas, and make sure you have a NACS adapter.
I start checking the charging station locations when I'm under 20%. That's still 50+ miles of range. I don't know every interstate but I75 and I95 have chargers at almost every exit
Donewith398@reddit
I drive from PHX to SoCal twice a year. I drive 75+ and have to stop once. When I tow my trailer I slow down to 65. I still only stop once if I drive super conservative (I may draft behind bigger trucks too).
english_mike69@reddit
If you left with a full charge then you should have no issues with getting 160miles in a car that can do 300 miles. If you like in North Dakota, it might get close in winter unless you pre-heat your car while it’s still plugged in before you leave.
Mentalv@reddit
160 round way? That should be more than fine for a 300 range car.
Slow_Description_773@reddit (OP)
Yes, round trip.
Mentalv@reddit
You’ll be fine then, charge to 100% right before you leave and drive 🚗
yhsong1116@reddit
ez pz unless it's extremely cold and you dont precondition
Brilliant-Onion2129@reddit
You’ll find out why 1/3 of EV owners go back to gas. It is called range anxiety!
OkSchool619@reddit
I think its funny this sub is dying right in front of my eyes. Its like a reddit for cassette players that have no idea the new tech is just better.
Hersbird@reddit
Range goes down, you also more quickly go through what range there is. The fastest charging is usually done in a narrower band of the battery than it's full capacity. So it means you drive for a few hours and then stop for 1/2 hour to and hour. People say they have to stop anyway, but you don't stop that often or that long on a long highway trip if you actually want to get somewhere. It turns an 8 hour trip into a 12 hour trip, and that gets old really fast.
ifallallthetime@reddit
You won't be screwed, but your car will be in need of a charge by the time you get home
Remember, the 300 mile range is not only best case scenario, but also charged to 100% and taking it down to nearly zero
All the EVs recommend that you charge to only 80% and don't let it go below 10%.
Hybrids are such better technology than EVs for real-world usage. I'm really stoked to see things like the new Scout that are going to by a hybrid like a locomotive, where the gas engine is a generator to charge the powerplant batteries on the fly
More-Sock-67@reddit
They are not great for highway use once you get above roughly 60-65mph. That’s just my personal experience but in general they become less efficient the faster you go.
All that said, the likelihood of not being able to find a charger on a 160 mile trip is incredibly slim
SubstantialFix510@reddit
Range anxiety is real , especially in cold weather. They work great in a city with a warm climate.
Better-Credit6701@reddit
Range is always a tricky thing. Highway range at 60 mph? How about 90 mph which is just 10 over in some states? Now combine those two answers with temp. Is it 10 F or 100 F.
I remember my wife once stating that when the gas light comes on, there is still a 50 mile range. I replied "at 50 mph or 90 mph". Was just trying to keep up in Dallas traffic.
Plus I can go from 20 mile range to 300 mile range in 4 minutes by simply filling the tank (my MX-5 has a tiny tank).
Example of 950 miles in 12.5 hours . Something you just couldn't do in an EV. I did calculate the difference between EV and my ICE and my car was 3 hours faster due to refill time and decreased range with EV at the speeds that I was driving.
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
You don't own an ev. Your example is incorrect. And the number 1 reason is negate it doesn't include the passengers. No one drives 950 miles without stopping.
Add an 8 minute stop every 2 hours. That's as far as an ev goes at highway speed between charges, with the most time efficient charging plan. It's also matches the range on my bladder.
If you're doing a gumball rally, the gas car will win. But then again you should be driving a diesel. In the real world they're no real difference.
Better-Credit6701@reddit
I drove 950 miles with the only stops being for fuel with every other stop I would empty my tank and fille the cars tank. Which is why I included a video of the entire drive for verification. I would stop for fuel every 275-300 miles and get back on the road. I packed food just so that I could drive further without stopping. All done in a 2021 MX-5
Oh, about that cannonball run, record for Diesel was in a modified Volkswagen Passat in 28:30. Overall record in an Audi S6 in 25:39. There were 34 runs in 2025 alone, but no records set. Diesels lost favor way back when we tried them back in the early 80's and remain in super low numbers.
Plus, I've been on a drive where gas stations were rare with no chargers for hundreds of miles.
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
you drove and recorded it. The reason you recorded it is because it was exceptional. IE, it was an exception from the regular road trip. Like I said in that case the gas car is the better choice. However, how many people, driving their own vehicles, are going to be doing that? Hopefully not many.
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
Evs are terrible on the highway if you believe Facebook political alternative facts.
It's all bullshit and most posts suggesting that, only confirm the posters don't have any experience to back it up. But they hate evs so their facts make them feel better for doing so.
I have had a rivian r1t and a tesla model 3.
They are quiet, the ride is smooth and they're powerful. Sound system in both is excellent and there's sufficient cupholders. Not sure what other criteria you'd be looking for. Efficiency is no different than a gas car. Model 3 was better at that than the rivian (still a big brick).
I drove 860 miles up I75 in my model 3. It took ~12.5 hours. I stopped every 2 hours to charge from 10->60%. I got a drink and went to the bathroom and wasn't always done when the car was ready to go again (buc-ees!). The car drove about 10 of those hours and I looked out the window and listened to audible. It was terrible. /s
anarcurt@reddit
There was one leg where I hit 3 Bucee's. It was about 2 1/2 hours between each give or take. It worked out perfectly.
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
I don't know whats going on in bucees. Are they giving away free food or something. It was so crowded I did not make it to the bathroom and back before the tsla app told me it was time to go. I didn't even get anything to drink! They did have 40+ 350kw chargers...
Weinerdogwhisperer@reddit
And by overnight i mean a few hours @ l1 or l2. Get a nacs adapter if you need one and use the tesla network. Almost all evs can now
GSP1971@reddit
depending on where you start. Based on my experience (partner has an EV), while they do recoup range on the downhill, the speed at which the range drops on a steep climb is a problem--if you can't make it to the downside of the pass, you're screwed. For example, driving the 20 km uphill to our ski hill uses about 70km of range. You recoup a good chunk of that coming back down, but depending on where a mountain pass fits into your trip, your effective range can be extremely low. A major climb east of here is sustained for about 30km and 1230m of elevation gained. That likely means an extra charging stop--and, yes, you'd burn lots of gasoline, too!
lightyearnoir@reddit
Higher speeds means lower range, and it is noticeable (more than ICE vehicles). If you road trip a lot or live in an area where you use the highway a lot, this might be a con for you.
doughnuts_not_donuts@reddit
If you had an electric drill and just held the trigger down, would it burn the battery faster than letting go and resqueezing it repeatedly?
Hutcho12@reddit
EV's are not bad at highway driving, they are just extremely good at city driving. The amount of energy they carry is significantly less than an ICE, so on the highway, they are more closely matched in efficiency with ICE and you see your range dropping quickly.
EV's absolutely demolish ICE's in the city though where there is start/stop traffic.
Loveschocolate1978@reddit
Air resistance begins to matter at speeds above ~35 mph, and its effects grow exponentially with increases in speed. internal combustion cars have transmission to allow for more efficient transfers of energy once at speed, where electric cars typically don't. I don't own one personally, but based upon what I've heard and seen from others who do and have shared their experiences, 300 miles of potential range vs 160 miles of actual driving would be no issue. I think it would be extremely important to check the dates of when people have posted their experiences as I remember when electric cars first started becoming popular, not only were those not as efficient, but the trip computers in the cars would not be very accurate at calculating try range with a large change in speed. More modern EV's, as in produced within the last ~7 years, basically moved well passed that point and it is no longer an issue. Lots of fears surrounding electric cars are based on anecdotes shared from experiences had over 15 years ago that aren't really valid today because the rate of improvement of EV's has been so staggeringly fast, especially when compared to gasoline powered cars that basically haven't changed much at all internally in the past 15 years... or maybe even 30 years for that matter? All in all, please check the dates of the EV literature you are reviewing. You should be 100% all set to travel 160 miles on the highway in an EV with a stated range of 300 miles.
EstablishmentDue3616@reddit
If you cant find a charging station within 300 miles, you are living in the middle of Antarctica.
TheKingOfSwing777@reddit
It's true. Also, RJ Scaringe said only 10% of Rivians have EVER been fast-charged, so most people are just charging at home or low power destination chargers. It's not an issue at all.
TheKingOfSwing777@reddit
160 miles on highway is totally fine. i'd expect to get at least 220 miles going 80 mph for an EPA 300 mile range.
Old_Passage6000@reddit
Yes
Rough_Cancel7265@reddit
Nope, especially considering your use case. It'll be fine
Earesth99@reddit
The only issue is they take longer to recharge than it takes to fill a tank.
And you pay more for electricity than you would at home.
I’ll never go back. They chat less, require extremely little maintenance and drive insanely fast.
It’s like a faster Ferrari that doesn’t break down and fits the kids and the dog and has two trunks.
But costs as much as a boring midsized car.
Thank his they didn’t exist when I was a teen.
Mr-Zappy@reddit
60% of a 300-mile EPA range at 80 mph shouldn’t be an issue down to 20F. Charge to 100% the night before and go for it. In the summer, you should be fine starting at 80%. If it’s colder than 20F, keep an eye on what the car says it expects to get back home at and consider slowing down.
My commute is 100 miles of highway driving, and my EV handles it even better than my Prius in efficiency, convenience (never need to stop for gas), and power/responsiveness.
ProbablyMyRealName@reddit
160 miles should be comfortable with range to spare. I drive my EV this kind of mileage frequently. If you can charge at home and your electrical rates are not ridiculous, you are a great candidate for an EV.
havikito@reddit
Speed 120 vs 90 gives you like 2x drag, so there is no point in driving faster to only lose that time charging.
ToughSpirit5285@reddit
They are not great no. They are the opposite of gas engines. They are great in the city but hard on power on the highway.
Many-Pomegranate-33@reddit
Idk if this has been brought up.
EVs weigh around 2 to 4k more lbs on avg than an ice car.
Its why they have special tires. The sidewalls are reinforced better. Theyre sold to the public as "ultra efficient". But the ev batteries are a lot of weight.
The current old guard rails dont work so well for ev pickups because of this. If they havent been replaced in last 5 yrs a ev truck will blast thru them.
And the extra weight is harder on the highways w the more evs on it. Just as if u were to add more big trucks as an extreme example. So more road construction.
Figured Id bring up another component than the charging which is a great thing to raise awareness on both sides.
OpinionofanAH@reddit
I have an ev for my commute which is 48 miles of highway (out of 50) each way. I set cruise at 80-85 and lose 40% of my battery on the 100 mile round trip. Advertised range is something like 320 miles at full charge. If I drive slower it uses noticeably less battery. Either way my round trip costs $3-4 to recharge. It is great for highway use.
goranlepuz@reddit
No, they are not bad. It depends on how you define "bad".
A liter of petrol has energy of 9kWh (a bit more, but let's take a low number).
A good petrol engine in a small-ish car will consume 6l/100km (a bit more, but let's take a low number).
That's 54kWh/100km of energy.
Meanwhile, a small-ish EV will consume 25kWh/100km (probably less, but let's not be kind to EVs).
That's more than two times less energy than an ICE car.
The thing is: energy density of petrol is high. The energy density of batteries is low. Therefore, EVs don't go far, not on a highway.
Nemesis_Destiny@reddit
I dunno, not really. I have arguably one of the worst EVs you can buy (first gen Nissan LEAF), and it did ok on the highway. No trouble keeping up, passing was acceptable, and it returned very close to the range calculated by the onboard computer. My biggest issue was that I'd planned to trickle charge at my destination to get enough range to return home without needing a public charger, and because of the heat (it was summer, and this car has no battery thermal management) I wasn't able to get much range back into it, forcing me to use a public charger.
I paid my $11, accidentally getting it nearly to full again, while I had a bathroom and snack break. Whoops! It was still too convenient and cheap! Darn!
MildlyConcernedIndiv@reddit
I do regular 200-mile trips at interstate highway speed at (80+mph) in a car with an EPA rated range of 353miles (when new). Winter and summer. No issues.
Naikrobak@reddit
Yes. It costs more $ per mile at a supercharger compared to a similar ice car
Living_Fig_6386@reddit
It depends on what you mean by "bad". The factor most affecting reduced mileage is aerodynamic drag. Driving at highway speeds mean driving with lots of drag. Drag has the exact same effect on non-EV cars and a similar impact on mileage. If you are driving a long distance, the EVs typically have shorter range than gas cars, so it means that you have to refuel (charge) more frequently in the EV than in the gas car.
SSnide@reddit
Yes.
Doublestack00@reddit
Yes. When I had an EV I would lose roughly 30% at interstate speeds. If you live in a cold climate it could be even worse.
EVs thrive at lower speeds and city use.
anarcurt@reddit
ICE cars lose the same at highway speeds. A gas car will use 20-30 percent more fuel between its peak efficiency of 45 and highway speeds. EVs aren't worse on the highway they are just better in the city.
Doublestack00@reddit
They do loose, but not at the same rate.
The big difference is an ICE can add back 300+ miles of range is sub 5 minutes. A typical EV takes 15-20 (at a SCer) to add back 150-180 miles (80% charge).
When I had a Model 3, it struggled to get more than 190ish miles from a 100% charge at 80 mph.
Chemical_Support4748@reddit
So hybrids are the way
Defiant-Opposite-501@reddit
They aren't "bad performers". Just like in a hybrid car, the efficiency delta between a regular ICE car and an EV is maximized in town because of regenerative braking. Also, at higher speeds, drag reduces efficiency but this is true for both ICE cars and EVs.
Netghod@reddit
The reason people say this is because EVs shine in stop and go when compared to ICE. Full torque from 0rpms, regenerative braking, and other factors help an EV shine in stop and go traffic or stoplight to stoplight. It’s why many early cars (and some still do) have/had limited range - they’re designed to handle commuting and daily trips shopping, etc and then be charged.
Do they work on the highway? Certainly. Most EVs are designed to be extremely aerodynamic to reduce drag and get the most out of the car possible. That’s why the Tesla, Prius, and many others are shaped the way they are - to reduce drag. Highway trips mean planning for charging which might seen to be a pain, but people don’t time their gas stops on highway trips - a lot of them are 10-15 minutes (get fuel, go to the restroom, etc), not that much different than a quick charge to 80% on many cars.
Additionally, heat and extreme cold are a much larger factor for EV vs. ICE.
But the reason most people say an EV isn’t good for the highway has nothing to do with anything outside of - range anxiety. I’ve done long trips in a car that has a relatively small gas tank and moderate fuel consumption (25mpg/10-11gallon tank) and I have to stop for gas every 250-300 miles or so. It’s not much different than driving an EV in terms of how often I would have to stop. Fuel stop length would change a bit, and I’d have to hunt for charging locations - even though they’re fairly plentiful, because there is a gas station EVERYWHERE and Charging Stations are getting more and more common, but gas stations are still a lot more common.
Altruistic-Rice-5567@reddit
Air resistance due to drag increases as the square of the speed. Drag at 70mph is 5 times more than at 30mph. So, yes, highway sucks for EV performance.
Tks1991@reddit
If you've driven for the post 20 years and no less hybrids and CVT, and got good mileage on the highway, and you need to ask questions, the only conclusion is that you're either lying or lying, or brain is malfunctioning.
Im gonna entertein the questions for other that might read.
Spead increase=efficiency decrease.
No regeneration.
M0LDEE@reddit
EVs can be pretty bad for highway use of you're like me and have to be somewhere a 1000km away at a certain point in time as you have to factor in charging times and add in extra time in case anything goes wrong, there's a que, etc. not considering that charging on public charges is way too expensive nowadays so you're not saving anything on fuel. For your use case I think you'd have no issues though and if you charge at home you can save money too.
RangerRekt@reddit
EVs are bad for highway use RELATIVE to their use in city/stop-and-go. They are exceptionally efficient compared to ICE cars in stop-and-go. They aren’t “bad” on the highway compared to ICE cars, you just have to manage your expectations, know your trip, and leave some leeway. And if you need more range, just slow down.
In your example you would likely finish your trip with 71 miles of range left if highway driving reduces range by a harsh 30%. My math is 300 * 0.7 - 160 =50, 50 / 0.7 =71.4 for your drive to work the next day.
CaliDude75@reddit
7-year Tesla Model 3 owner here. 🙋🏻♂️ I have taken multiple road trips. Yes, highway driving eats through range faster. They’re also very speed-sensitive in terms of energy consumption. That said, as long as you plan ahead, and don’t ignore the charging recommendations in the nav prompts, you’ll be fine. If you plan on driving to remote areas, maybe take an ICE or hybrid model.
With the scenario you gave, that would be right on the edge of my comfort level. I would just say watch your speed, and hopefully you have L2 charging at your destination.
Best_Market4204@reddit
As a hybrid owner myself. You will notice the battery depleted much faster & the engine kicks on more.
At 30mph, I feel like i can go "forever" on the small battery in my hybrid but at 70-75mph. If the road is pretty leveled or has slight downhill, it's not bad but any form of uphill zaps the battery
MarsRocks97@reddit
Total round trip 160? You’ll be fine. You lose range at fast highway speeds. Cruising at 80-85 my range drops from 290 down to about 200 miles. Will be much better range even at 65.
Olderpostie@reddit
EVs are not bad for highway use. But, they do not offer the same improvement in energy use relative to IC engines that they do in the city. So, if you are looking for savings, it is from city driving that EVs and hybrids show the biggest benefit.
Secondly, long distance driving in an EV, which involves a lot of highway driving, requires more planning for recharging, and commercial EV charging power is two or three times more pricey per kilowatt-hour than overnight home charging.
MotelSans17@reddit
Range is a bit lower, it gets worse the faster you drive.
Is it an issue? Nah, not really. Just plan accordingly.
EV hater will use anything that lowers range as a "proof" that EVs are bad. Apparently they "just don't work in winter", yet it's the best car I've ever owned for driving in the snow or sub zero cold. It's just that I come back home with 72% left instead of 80%. Big effin deal.
Miliean@reddit
So the problem starts in that the stated vehicle range makes some assumptions that may not be true. Hills, for example, can really impact things like range. Same with exterior temperature and even just driving style.
So that OEM range of 300 miles, you might only get 275 in the real world (or even less). And even at that, 160 miles round trip is 320 so you're stranded on the side of the road 20 miles from home even with OEM range being accurate.
And you've basically identified the exact reason EVs are considered poor choices for long road trips. But that's the less likely scenario. The more likely scenario is that there's plenty of charging along the way, but it sucks to stop and wait for it to charge when in an ICE vehicle you could take 10 minutes to fill up and be back on the road.
But the truth is, those really LONG roadtrips where there's no charging at the end point, that's actually super rare. Much more common is that you drive for a few hours all on your initial charge. Get to where you are going and plug into the charger at the hotel and everything is just fine.
It's mainly that this range and charger issue is not something that happens at all, ever, in an ICE vehicle.
C0smic_Cunt@reddit
I don't drive an ev but I know a lot of people who do. It's pretty convenient and saves a ton of money if you live in an area where you generally do less driving, like here in Vermont the average most people drive is 80-100 miles a day.
They charge their car overnight at home, they charge their car at work (one person I know got permission from her boss to park near an outdoor outlet on the building and use it) and liken it to basically being able to fill up their tank at multiple times throughout the day sometimes for free and if not it's always cheaper than gas.
As for road trips they said range anxiety was pretty similar to gas cars they had owned since chargers aren't too hard to find, regenerative breaking ads some range, and In emergencies they've gotten permission from local businesses to use an outdoor port to charge their car.
The average for ev batteries is that typically after about 8-12 years of use they will lose 20-35% of their total range, but considering the average lifespan of a car is about 12-14 years a used EV is a pretty option if you want to save money and don't mind the time it takes it charge.
Mike__O@reddit
Tesla has a trip planner that lets you create a route. It will automatically calculate charging stops and the duration of the charge. Obviously it's specific to Tesla vehicles, but it might give you an idea of what you're dealing with.
skot53@reddit
There is also https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ for everyone else.
HorseWinter@reddit
I’ve driven EV’s since 2018.. My entire household (and most my extended family) drive EV’s. We live in a smaller town in Missouri so most our travel is highway. In my personal opinion they are absolutely perfect for highway use in your scenario due to cost savings. Yes you’ll see less than rated range. But for your scenario most modern EV’s can do that trip easily. Obviously being able to charge at home will help that big time and make it all incredibly convenient.
JT-Av8or@reddit
EVs are definitely a pain on long range drives. They take about 1/3rd longer in time (for example my son used to take 9 hours to get here in his truck but now takes 12 with the Y, my daughter took 8 but now takes 9 with her 3) and you are locked into stops where there are DC fast chargers, so you won’t see more of the world because you see the same exits again and again. Not a major deal because, compared with day to day, how often does one do a 900+ mile road trip? But just commuting 100 miles? EV is better. No issues.
natedogjulian@reddit
Yes.
Kaaawooo@reddit
Ice vehicles waste a bunch of energy just by being on, so highway miles maximize the distance you're going with the vehicle on, thereby taking you further per gallon of gas.
EVs basically don't waste any energy, so their consumption is almost completely tied to aerodynamic drag and rolling resistance, which increases a lot with speed.
So are they bad on the highway? No, they just use more energy to go faster without having their efficiency at high speed inflated the way ice vehicles do
PersonalBrowser@reddit
I wouldn’t say they’re “bad” for highway use.
It’s just that the way that EVs work is very effective for city driving (slow speeds, lots of stopping and starting) and not particularly well suited for highway driving (high speeds, minimal stopping and starting)
But that doesn’t really matter if the car range works for your use case. So it’s not bad, it’s just not maximally efficient from an engine / battery standpoint.
That being said, it sounds like your real question is whether it makes sense to do a 160 mile round trip on an EV with 320 miles of range. Yeah, that would be well within the capacity of the car. It’s not like it’s half as efficient, unless you’re blasting the heater in the arctic winter and driving 90 miles per hour the whole way.
Bulky_Employ_4259@reddit
It’ll depend on the EV but 300 miles of range should be plenty for that.
No-Fix2372@reddit
I took my MachE cross country recently. Averaged 2.3mi/kwh at 80mph.
Meinnocenthaha@reddit
i much prefer driving my EV on the highway vs my ICE. EV does way better in Los angeles traffic and it’s a lot less stressful driving in traffic compared to my ICE vehicle.
cactusjackalope@reddit
Gas & diesel cars are most efficient around 55-60mph, EVs are most efficient around 30-35mph. Additionally EVs recapture energy when slowing. That makes EVs ideally suited for in town driving and ICE cars better for longer trips.
RJsRX7@reddit
EVs aren't "bad" for highway use so much as it's just not their biggest positive attribute.
Basically, it takes about the same amount of energy to maintain a given speed in a given vehicle. In an ICE vehicle, this is largely the best case scenario, and going faster doesn't necessarily negatively impact consumption as much as it mathematically should.
Where EVs (and hybrids) make most of their gains is in city driving, where they can use regenerative braking to recoup a pretty sizable portion of the energy used to accelerate the vehicle to road speed while slowing it back down, and then not idle the engine while stopped.
Your 160 mile day trip, if it's 160mi round trip, will be fine so long as you leave with a full charge. If it's 160mi each direction and you have absolutely no charging infrastructure available anywhere, well... You might be able to make it work with a 110V charger at your destination, though they're comically slow at about 2-4mi of range per hour.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
This is true, but most of the energy going into an ICE is still wasted as heat, so the actual energy consumption is a lot higher even on the highway.
Far-Mushroom-5023@reddit
160 miles should be no problem. The problem is that weather conditions have a large impact on range. Plus EV’s like hybrids do their best in city driving. A standard battery pack as of today holds the equivalent of 2- 2 1/2 gallons of gasoline worth of energy. EV’s are very efficient but anything that hurts that efficiency is felt pretty quickly.
With that said, Google and most EV’s these days (especially Tesla’s) will find and plan Charging stops for you based on perimeters you set. Range anxiety really isn’t an issue.
ontheleftcoast@reddit
The trip we did this last weekend, San Diego to Phoenix was our first "long" trip. Honestly it was a breeze, there was no range anxiety, we knew where we needed to charge before we left home. The range estimator was very accurate ( within a % or 2). One thing I've tried to do on road trips is teach myself that the "vacation" starts when we leave the house, not when we arrive at the destination. Taking 30 minutes to explore or eat lunch while charging helped with that. I would have no issues using our EV on long drives after this, especially since we were able to use FSD.
Far-Mushroom-5023@reddit
We took our Tesla from Houston to New Haven CT around new years. It a helluva smoother than I imagined.
SyntheticOne@reddit
For our 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 SEL RWD: EPA Combined 303 mile range in mild temperatures. This is derived from the average of 250 miles at 70 MPH and 350 miles at 40 MPH (mild temps). At 40F those two ranges fall about 10%. At 30F they fall about 20%. A very hilly route will hurt more, running heater will hurt more.
If you have a similar EV then you can easily make the 160 miles round trip on a single 100% charge in just about any weather.
BMW has a new model coming this summer that is EPA Combined 400 miles priced around $60,000.
I think that the best purchase deals are on 2-3 year old (save about 50% under MSRP) on cars that have long drivetrain warranties such as the Ioniq 5. There are lots of attractive lease deals.
Since our daily use is under 60 miles, we L1 charge from a standard 120V wall outlet. We regain 3.64 miles of range per hour of charge (about 1.2% of the total battery capacity per hour) and so a 15 hour overnight session gains us 55 miles of range.
Our electric cost per mile is 1/5th the cost of gas per mile in a comparable fossil fuel car. With the latest gas prices our elctc cost is about 1/8th the cost of gas per mile.
BONUS: our Ioniq 5 has V2L (Vehicle To Load) with which we can power critical elements of our home during power outages. We can run our refrigerator, internet, computer, phone charger, toaster oven, espresso machine, and emergency lights for more than a week if needed.
All this and superb electronic safety features, highway self driving, fantastic performance, quiet, zero emissions and little preventive maintenance.
EVs make a lot of financial, ecological and safety sense in today's market. If you have comfortable income, then new EVs make sense to buy. There is likely to be somewhat higher depreciation but the newer the vehicle the more feature-rich they become. That new BMW is one example.
UNBONUS: Many state-level added fees are now in use such as , in Texas (and oil and gas state) as an example, there is a $400 added registration fee on new vehicles which drops to $200 in subsequent years. The rational is EVs do not use gas and so do not pay road taxes; these fees make this up, sometimes fairly and sometimes usery.
jnyc777@reddit
Most electric vehicles only have one gear, the taycan has 2. Electric motors just like gas engines have happy spots where they are more and most efficient, as the previous poster stated, essentially the inverse of gas vehicles. That’s y your hybrid is kind of advertised as the best of both worlds. Although there is an argument to be had that it’s also the worst of both worlds as it has the complexity and added weight of jamming both together
pantherclipper@reddit
Hybrids are considerably less complex than gas cars. They lack many moving parts; alternators, starters, a torque converter, clutch packs, shift solenoids, an accessory drive, a reverse gear, and so on. That's why they're so reliable. You'll never see a hybrid Prius with a dead transmission.
Their batteries also aren't always that heavy, either. Usually a hybrid version of a car only adds about \~200ish pounds, while gaining upwards of 15-25 MPG.
Complex_Solutions_20@reddit
Depends if its a series-hybrid or parallel-hybrid. For some strange reason, most hybrids seem to use the parallel-hybrid design where you have a more complex transmission system that couples both the gas engine and electric motor to the wheels and when it needs to use the gas engine is basically operating as a regular gas car with more parts in it.
pantherclipper@reddit
The only true series hybrids on the market I'm aware of are Nissan e-Power cars (unfortunately not available in the US). I believe the BMW i3 and some EREV cars technically fit that description as well.
However, series-parallel hybrids (aka power-split hybrids) are quite popular and have all of the advantages of both. Toyota Prius/Camry/RAV4, Honda Civic, Ford Maverick, etc are all power-split hybrids.
jnyc777@reddit
Not saying they aren’t reliable. And still taking away some components and adding others still makes it more complex, high voltage components. 12v converter. Bms. any weight you saved you added with a battery. Gasoline is like 500x energy dense than batteries. I wasn’t dissing hybrids, I’ve heard a lot of ppl like them. I never had one personally but I’m not against them
pantherclipper@reddit
Like I said, modern power-split hybrids are considerably less complex. There's fewer moving parts. Fewer wear components. Fewer places where things can go wrong.
A Prius or RAV4 for example doesn't even have clutch packs in its gearset; reverse happens with the electric motor.
Yes, there exist exceptions to the rule. Yes, a parallel hybrid is more complex because it's basically a normal ICE car with an electric motor added on. But most hybrids on the road aren't one of those, and aren't more complex than a gas car at all.
osmiumblue66@reddit
Some hybrids are like this.
There are plenty that do have generator/alternator setups as well as traditional six speed auto transmissions, and they are quite reliable. I own one.
pantherclipper@reddit
Are you talking about mild hybrids with a 48 V system?
Those vehicles aren't true hybrids, they can't drive on electric power alone even if just at slow speeds or low load. They only exist to give gas cars the ability to take advantage of regen braking, boosting city MPGs a little bit.
osmiumblue66@reddit
Mine drives on electric power alone. Engine spins up when needed.
pantherclipper@reddit
Which car is this?
osmiumblue66@reddit
Every Kia Hyundai hybrid on the road.
pantherclipper@reddit
Those are parallel hybrids, they fit the exception which I mentioned in the first place. Basically an entire ICE driveline but with added hybrid components, instead of being a ground-up power-split hybrid system.
SanFransicko@reddit
The XC90 T8 is a great one. Just 33 miles of pure electric range, with a 150hp motor driving the rear wheels. Plus a highly tuned 2.0 liter turbo charged and supercharged engine making 300hp abs driving the front wheels. Over 20k miles, I'm averaging almost 60mpg in real world combination driving. I burn about 2/3 of the 18 gallon tank per month and can charge in under 4 hours from a level 2 at the house or at work.
ontheleftcoast@reddit
We just did a 360 mile trip in an EV. ( Tesla Model y). We charged it to 80% before leaving. We went from sea level to 4000 ft then back to sea level during the first leg. Our first stop was a charging station 187 miles away (we had about 12% battery left when we got there). The navigation system automatically plans stops at charging stations and will make sure you arrive at your destination with what ever your preset it ( ours is 10%, so we always had about 40-50 miles of range in the battery when we arrived anywhere).
When we got to the charging station the nav system tracks the charging and tells you when you have enough for the next leg. Our shortest stop would have been about 5 minutes, however we went into the Burger king and had lunch and let it charge back to 80%, which took about 30 minutes. At another stop we went into a small shop, got some ice cream and used the bathrooms.
The full 360 miles had us stop to charge twice to charge. Honestly, it was kind of nice being forced to take a short break and not try and do a nascar pit stop.
As far as "no charging stations", that is highly unlikely. There are charging stations all over the place now. Worst case scenario, you take your mobile charger with you and plug it in. If there is electricity, there is charging.
Complex_Solutions_20@reddit
12% is an awfully tight margin, what happens if there's a wreck and you are sent on an unplanned 30 mile detour around it?
SoloWalrus@reddit
If you have an ev with 300 mile range you will have no issues going 160 miles on the highway. Ignore everyone else arguing about red herrings, the only time an ev's range will drop by half is when youre towing. After 10 years the batteries might drop by up to 30%, maybe, but not half.
SailingSpark@reddit
Once up to speed, all cars need a surprisingly little amount of power to stay there. Even my big Land Rover, which will drop to low single digits when accelerating onto the highway, gets close to 15 mpg when cruising along at 70mph. If something brick like as a landy with low gearing can get 15mpg, imagine what something slippery like a Tesla can do?
Illustrious-Gas-9766@reddit
We regularly drive our ev on a 150 mile round trip. It is rated for 240 mile range. It does take a small hit on distance left when we do this freeway drive but only like 10-15 miles of range.
TwOhsinGoose@reddit
Two things. Gas engines tend to get more efficient with some load. By efficient I don’t mean in terms of strictly mpg, instead I’m talking about Brake Specific Fuel Consumption. How much fuel is needed to make 1 hp. Gas engines tend to have a lower BSFC under higher engine loads and so they actually tend to perform better closer to freeway speeds.
The second is that a gas engine never can regen brake. The best it can do is just not consume fuel. An EV relies on regen braking to contribute to its range in non-highway driving. Once you are on the highway at a constant 65+ mph it’s unlikely you will regen much, is any.
So it’s not so much that EV’s suck on the highway, it’s that gas engines are horrible at low speed driving.
Burner5647382910@reddit
Not bad, just less efficient vs city/stop and go.
eldredo_M@reddit
Almost every vehicle does worse at highway speeds as opposed to a constant 46 mph. It’s about the drag.
Is there a larger penalty for EVs? Maybe. Consult information about the specific model in question.
dwfmba@reddit
Yes
Complex_Solutions_20@reddit
That seems to be what my friends experience with Tesla Model Y LR cars. They have supposed 330 mile range and my friends see like 300-310 mile range in the city...but can't do a 220 mile road trip without at least one charging stop.
Sideburn_Cookie_Man@reddit
Yep, they’re not ideal.
Part of the reason is that they don’t have a transmission to step down gearing at high speed.
NotYetReadyToRetire@reddit
Just how fast are you driving? My Ioniq 6 was perfectly happy cruising across South Dakota with the cruise control set on 105 mph.
InformalParticular20@reddit
I wouldn't give that trip a second thought, in fact that is about 2 days of commuting for me and I have done it when I forgot to plug in at night and I will go from 80% to about 25% for the 2 days. I would probably charge to 100% just to add some buffer, and I usually cruise at about 76mph on the highway.
FZ_Milkshake@reddit
EVs are not bad for highway use, it's just that the disadvantages of an ICE driven vehicle are less apparent on a highway and so they seem worse in comparison.
alanbdee@reddit
Here's how to look at it. In an ICE car, you use energy to get up to speed and then transfer that energy into friction heat via the brakes. So in city driving, you spend energy to get up to speed, then sink that energy into the brakes and repeat. But in highway driving, you get up to speed and stay there. So you don't lose nearly as much energy.
In EVs, they capture that braking energy and reuse it. Which makes it much more efficient in stop and go traffic. But on the highway, you're just spending energy. Then, to make it worse, wind resistance increases the faster you go. So it takes more energy to go the same distance at a faster speed.
The real difference is an EV can recapture the energy it uses in stop and go traffic.
subpotentplum@reddit
They're not bad on the highway, but range is reduced, honestly fast charging isn't bad for stops though. Personally I enjoy taking the time to have lunch, go shopping or explore around my stops. But it does depend on finding stops in areas with stuff to do. Also, the price of fast charging is about the same as gasoline, or sometimes even more expensive. There's also a big difference in performance between something like a bolt/leaf and a Tesla/lucid/Hyundai ionic.
PaulClarkLoadletter@reddit
Not screwed at all. Instead of a gas tank you have a battery. You can maximize your range in city driving but that doesn’t mean you can’t drive on the freeway. Be mindful of your range in the same way you monitor your fuel gauge. It’s not difficult.
Troglodytes_Cousin@reddit
You can try to model it up with software such as better road planner :-)