When will we start seeing solid state batteries or something better than lithium ion that doesn't blow up easily?
Posted by warmbrojuice@reddit | ebikes | View on Reddit | 62 comments
Droidstation3@reddit
Lithium ion does not blow up easily. When was the last time your phone blew up?
Your tablet?
Your laptop?
Your headphones/earbuds?
Your Bluetooth speaker?
Your mobile power bank?
Your Nintendo Switch?
Your PS5 controller?
Do you have any idea how many everyday devices use Lithium ion batteries? Do those blow up easily? People are stupid asf...
Antique_Molasses_191@reddit
Phones have a way Superior BMS then E Bike batteries
Droidstation3@reddit
You still missed the point...
Nobody actively THINKS about lithium batteries spontaneously "exploding", except for ebikes, because that's what the news told you.
sbg-sbg@reddit
The HQ office for my company burned down due to a lithium laptop battery fire.
BoringBob84@reddit
Yes, some of them are - for example, those who do not understand the vastly different size, capacity, and danger between a laptop battery (about 50 Watt-hours) and an ebike battery (about 700 Watt hours).
Droidstation3@reddit
You mean the laptop battery that you literally place next to your genital area? That's NOT especially dangerous to you?
Or even the phone battery that's either next to or directly in front your face 24/7, whether you're driving, walking, standing or sitting?
Indeed, people ARE stupid asf...
Imaginary-Honeydew98@reddit
A little different in explosions phone vs ebike batteties. To scared use a phone use couriers.
Droidstation3@reddit
THE POINT is that lithium batteries are all around us in our daily lives, and they're DO NOT randomly or spontaneously explode for no reason. We need to stop the fear mongering ONLY for ebike batteries.
BoringBob84@reddit
I was thinking the same thing. I am surprised that you are trying to double-down on your false equivalency.
If my phone or my laptop starts on fire, I can easily throw it outside or into the sink or the oven, so that it doesn't burn down the entire building. And the fire will not be nearly as big as the fire from an ebike battery that has more than ten times the capacity.
Droidstation3@reddit
So the device would literally "blow up in your face" and you're talking about what you would "easily" do, WHILE you're in excruciating pain OR incapacitated due to the proximity of said explosion. You must think you're Superman or something.
FlipMeOverUpsidedown@reddit
Dude’s an angry moron with a word of the day calendar. I wouldn’t even engage.
Droidstation3@reddit
You know when people don't have an actual argument or point when they jump straight to the ad hominem attacks. If you weren't going to engage, you wouldn't have hit the "reply" button in the first place.
derping1234@reddit
The last time I had any issue was when my 4 GB micro HDD MP3 player started to swell and declared a new pope. This was uuuh a long time ago, back when most people were still rocking 64/128 MB thumb drive style mp3 players.
warmbrojuice@reddit (OP)
Great but my nyc building management won't allow me to have my electric bike in my own condo / apartment
Terrorphin@reddit
That's about anxiety, not chemistry.
AdBoring4472@reddit
That's about us allowing unsafe, cheap products into the market in the first place, and the consumer buying them in mass because they are lower priced.
Droidstation3@reddit
Sucks to be you. I have 4 ebikes and a scooter in my apartment here in California, and I've owned as many as 10. There's a world outside of New York called "America" where people ride ebikes everyday without problems.
A stock ebike, fresh out the box DOES NOT "blow up easily" or without reason. Just like any other lithium ion powered device doesn't. None of these "news stories" will tell you the "cause" of these fires, but I can promise you that they likely had something to do with inexperienced modders doing something they shouldn't have been doing with them, like mix & matching cheap add-on batteries and/or splitter cables off Alibaba that probably weren't compatible with the controller. You can't just play around with electricity if you don't know what you're doing. Bad things can happen. I don't mess with the internals of my bikes, and they've never spontaneously "blown up" on me, either. Again, I've owned 10 ebikes.
Stop letting media headlines and narratives, written by people who have no knowledge base, understanding of, or even interest in ebikes, influence your thinking and do some real research. You're listening to people who don't even ride bikes tell you about bikes.
Superb_Raccoon@reddit
Cheap manufacturing and zero testing for the sub $1000 bikes is the culprit.
Just-Smart-Enough@reddit
To be fair, they'd probably have an issue with you parking a gas powered motorcycle in your apartment as well.
starkruzr@reddit
it will take 20 years and multiple changes of management before they or anyone else like airlines change their rules around this. start breaking the rules as safely as you can now (this obviously is not possible with airlines).
chiefvelo@reddit
Consumer electronics usually use a different chemistry than EVs. They tend to use LCO. It's a higher energy density but shorter life than say NMC. Similar construction, though, and hazards. fyi
SupaBrunch@reddit
I’ve heard other battery advances for e-bikes lag about 3 years behind EV’s, and EV’s are just starting to get solid state batteries in specific markets.
There’s a chance it could come sooner if an ebike company thinks they can effectively market it, but it’ll definitely be at a premium.
LiFePo batteries are extremely safe, but rarely used because they are costlier and less energy dense than other lithium ion cells.
Apart_Month3803@reddit
Tomorrow.
SupaBrunch@reddit
heh
Apart_Month3803@reddit
Ride1up just released their semi-solid state eBike today
SupaBrunch@reddit
Ah why’d they have to do it in their ugly moped one? Cool to see though despite that
Apart_Month3803@reddit
Batteries will all shift over time, as new models are released
Hungry_Orange666@reddit
LiFePO4 are cheaper, but weight about 2x more for same energy.
This batteries are mainly used for stationary energy storage, but are also popular in mopeds and microcars, where weight is not as important as in bicycles.
starkruzr@reddit
work great for boats, too.
Nebulon-B_FrigateFTW@reddit
Soon, but it'll be expensive https://electrek.co/2026/04/17/major-e-bike-company-set-to-launch-semi-solid-state-battery-electric-bicycle/
deck_hand@reddit
Sodium-ion batteries do not have the thermal runaway problem that lithium batteries do. They are “on the market” now.
Duct_TapeOrWD40@reddit
They have lower energy density, and it limits their usage. Howewer there is a chance they become super cheap for stationary applications, just impractical for ebikes or any EV other than toys or forklifts.
BikemeAway@reddit
Not sure how much lower density we're talking about but it could see it working for 250Wh city-only bike sold for cheap. But it must be really cheaper not like 20% otherwise the lost density is not worth it.
Duct_TapeOrWD40@reddit
At this moment rughly 50-60% less energy \ weight.
Still better than lead acid for example.
NoActivity7734@reddit
There are a lot of companies that are working on ALLEGEDLY donut labs has one that will be in production within a few months but we’ll see
chiefvelo@reddit
We see them, they are just in China and other parts of the world and kept out due to oil-friendly policy.
tooltalk01@reddit
A lot of nonsense here. China is actually going back to the good old lead-acid because of they are unable to deal with sheer number of ebike fires nationwide. This is all encouraged by the Chinese gov't since late 2024, and promoted under a massive "cash for clunkers" trade-in program, the lead-acid battery accounted for 90% of e-bike market in China last quarter Q4 2025.
Oil accounts for only about \~15% of energy in China; coal which is much dirtier accounts about 60%.
AdBoring4472@reddit
This is nonsense. I dislike the oil industry and it's influences as much as anyone, but this is not the reason solid state isn't available yet.
The technology is just not to the point of being commercialized yet ... it is getting close, but will be too expensive for most ebike consumers for years longer.
Unfortunately, consumer's perceptions of what an ebike should cost, is doing far more to prevent better technology than anything the oil industry is.
BoringBob84@reddit
Well said! We see post after post here asking for ebikes that are powerful, reliable, have the best features, have extremely long range, immediately available, and cost under $1,000.
Those are unrealistic expectations. No product provides low cost, high quality, and a short schedule simultaneously. There is a trade-off. So, a cheap ebike, ordered from the internet, will have low quality.
AdBoring4472@reddit
Donut Labs and numerous Chinese companies are on the verge of commercializing solid state, with all its massive performance improvements, but it is still expensive and the product changes to support its performance, also adds costs (wiring needs to be thicker, chargers need beefier components and safety features, heat management additions, etc.). Automotive is going to suck up all the supply for years before it is seen in ebikes in any meaningful way. There is no margin in ebikes, to support novel technological improvements like this, until they are mainstream. I hope to be proved wrong, but it is not likely.
BoringBob84@reddit
This is a good point, and it will be important in applications (such as cars) where super-fast charging is desirable.
I see this as optional for ebikes. For people like me, who use the ebike for errands and commuting, it is acceptable that the battery takes a couple of hours to recharge.
I am more interested in the increased energy density and safety of a solid state battery much more than the increased power density.
beagles4ever@reddit
Soon, if you believe these guys:
https://idonutbelieve.com
Verneff@reddit
The fact that they're releasing it like they are makes it seem extremely suspect. If they actually had a solid state battery, they would be going off to make a deal with some massive company rather than baiting investors like they are.
beagles4ever@reddit
Any day now they say they're selling bikes with them - so it won't take long before someone buys it and breaks it down. Then we'll know. . .I suspect it's something interesting.
Verneff@reddit
It may have some curious chemistry, but I'll be shocked if it turns out to be a real solid state battery.
beagles4ever@reddit
The tests they've released have been very interesting. Nothing to validate the 400wh/kg or solid state claims - but clearly there's some interesting chemistry going on that makes it very fast to charge and capable of handling high temps that destroy other batteries.
I'm convinced it's not Lithium Ion and maybe not any kind of liquid matrix.
The other big question - can they produce it at scale and for comparable cost.
But. . .I'm starting to believe they have something interesting.
JG-at-Prime@reddit
Pretty soon. We are already seeing advances in sodium batteries. They may never exceed the current lithium offerings, but the are already about halfway there.
If they (or a hybrid of some sort) can reach about 75% of the capacity of current batteries they will start to become viable for use in e-bikes.
They have some great advantages over lithium.
Johns-schlong@reddit
From what I understand sodium is pretty much dead in the water at this point. It's not a bad chemistry, but lithium prices have collapsed and the built manufacturing capacity is so high now that sodium can't solve the main reason it's been developed - price.
JG-at-Prime@reddit
Sodium isn’t dead, it’s just going in the direction of large house scale batteries for the moment.
The big advantage of sodium batteries isn’t cost. It’s safety. Sodium batteries will tolerate much faster charging rates (2x to 5x faster), they can be discharged deeper because they are more stable. They have significantly higher charge cycles (up to 3,000 as compared with 800 to 1,000 for lithium) They have a wider operating temperature between -20°C and +60°C.
It’s also very difficult to get a sodium battery to burn. The cells use a much more chemically stable material. You can do stuff with sodium batteries that would cause a lithium battery to catch fire.
The biggest thing holding sodium batteries back is capacity, not price. Capacity is slowly getting better. But it’s a slow process.
The highest capacity sodium cells are currently around 1500mAh. That’s the real problem. Currently lithium 18650 cells in e-bike batteries can put out 3,000 to 3,600mAh.
Sodium e-bike batteries would be 2x the size for a comparable Amp hour sized battery pack. Capacity is really what is stopping sodium battery adoption in e-bikes for the moment.
And that’s a shame because sodium absolutely spanks lithium as far as safety goes.
Just imagine having a battery that you don’t have to worry about. As far as fire safety is concerned. No UL certificate required.
It’s a very alluring prospect.
elvinLA@reddit
Donut motors donut battery.
Verneff@reddit
There's good reason to strongly doubt that it's actually a solid state battery, it has some interesting test results but the way they're releasing the tests makes it look like it's some kind of scam rather than any kind of actually special battery.
derping1234@reddit
The car industry is working on it. Once we see broader adoption we will soon see it in e-bike batteries https://electrek.co/2026/02/24/solid-state-ev-batteries-debut-in-china-nearing-1000-miles-range/
Verneff@reddit
There are extremely high odds that either Changan Automobile is outright lying about it or are using some loophole to call a standard cell a "solid state" cell. If they actually had solid state batteries, that would be getting talked about by WAY more people.
Acrobatic-Flan-5085@reddit
Yeah I just want to add to the conversation, that while I personally think existing batteries are plenty safe, airlines do not.
Which makes it impossible to fly with an ebike.
I’m hoping sodium batteries get a different treatment. And if not, maybe they can be shipped without hassle by standard carriers.
That would make it an instant upgrade for me even if all else is the same (and even if I had to give up 10% of range to stay at same weight).
In most cases, it would be easier and cheaper to check an e-bike, than it would be to rent a car at your destination.
boshbosh92@reddit
I've never had a lithium ion battery blow up and I use multiple of them every single day. Some are over 10 years old.. No explosions or fires.
Krapshoet@reddit
Such a naive post by the OP
SadisticPawz@reddit
LFP is fairly inert.
AdBoring4472@reddit
Lithium iron phosphate is heavier per Ah, which seems to be a deal breaker for consumers who think they need maximal battery range, don't actually understand batteries, and only consider specs when buying ebikes.
But, it is more inert (safe) and lasts nearly 30% longer than NMC chemistries. The increased weight would be negligible if companies stopped designing overweight tanks for ebikes, but seems like consumers want those too.
The reality is, NMC Li-ion chemistry batteries are safe too, but require better process control in cell production and better monitoring electronics (BMS) .... all of which is available in higher quality ebikes, but is more expensive.
Duct_TapeOrWD40@reddit
Li battery is a roughly 50 years old invention. The first widespread Li batteties are 30 years old, and they became cheap and available roughly 20 years ago. The first solid state batteries are outside of the laboratories, and small scale "test" productuon lines are under construction (or in pre-productuon state)
So I expect the first overpriced but available samples is few years, then a dacede of co-existing old and new tech of Li batteries.
Superb_Raccoon@reddit
https://unmannedrc.com/collections/batteries/products/high-power-density-light-weight-drone-solid-state-lithium-battery?variant=37967898575045
o_Divine_o@reddit
Here's Semi Solid state Lithium-ion https://www.batteryspace.com/Semi-Solid-state-Lithium-ion-Cells-and-Battery.aspx
To reach 72v for the eride, looking at $3,200 for just 35Ah.
Normal li-ion Amorge 72V 65Ah (20S13P) is something like $1,000 to $1,500 I believe.
Would you rather have 2 batteries of 65Ah or 1 at 35Ah for basically the same price?
You would still need to build a box, bms, and wire the solid state batteries.
Typically we see new tech sit around till the current market hardware is ancient. Just look how long they've been dragging optical drives along. I considered optical outdated trash since 2003.
OLED screens were made back in 1987. Yet it's now popping off as if it's some new breakthrough and you pay a premium for that 39 year old tech.
Count on businesses bleeding people dry with old and outdated technology for as long as they can.
KyzRCADD@reddit
Rumble Motors and Verge both claim to have great options. Maybe they do. Using what I can get my hands on for now.