Why are new Corolla and Civic not really “affordable” anymore?
Posted by phtphongg@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 549 comments
I know the Toyota Corolla and Honda Civic are some of the most reliable cars out there, and that reputation has been built for decades. But I always thought they were supposed to be affordable compact cars, and now they don’t really feel that way anymore.
In my area, the cheapest Civic starts around $28k, which seems pretty high for an economy sedan. I get that you’re paying for reliability, but the price jump still feels like a lot.
At the same time, there are other options like Mazda3, Hyundai Elantra, or Nissan Sentra that can also last a long time if you keep up with maintenance. Yet people still seem to default to Corolla/Civic even at higher prices.
Also, a lot of people don’t even keep their cars that long, they get bored and switch after a few years. So it makes me wonder if it’s worth paying that much if you’re not planning to drive it until it dies.
Curious what others think, is it just brand reputation driving the price up, or is there more to it?
Medium-Pay-9057@reddit
Aside from “inflation”, when you consider what “features” come on a civic and corolla as standard compared to back then, is insane. When AC, power steering and even a radio or passenger side mirror was optional back in the day, the car could be sold for super cheap. But now a civic comes with power everything, keyless entry, digital infotainment screens with higher trims having leather seats, seat warmers etc.
The way I see it, they force these things onto the buyer and give them no choice but to pay the mark up.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
Honda and Toyota are too full of themselves. Now they are coming out with underpowered engines with CVT's. This costs them less, but the consumer ends up paying more.
This will bite them in the ass eventually.
HoldingThunder@reddit
The base model cars are more powerful than basically any other time in auto industry history..
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
Have you test drove a CRV or Rav4 lately? They are wimpy as hell!
After only buying Toyotas or Hondas for years, we switched to Mazda this time. Really happy with it.
HoldingThunder@reddit
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
I'm not here to argue about horse power.
You're entitled to your beliefs.
I do think the 1.5 with a CVT is seriously underpowered. Try driving one, you'll see what I mean.
HoldingThunder@reddit
190 hp is more than adequate for the average driver.
Desperate_Platypus34@reddit
That depends entirely on how porky the car is, the engine powerband and what trans/diff gear ratios the OEM decided on
HoldingThunder@reddit
Considering The RAV4 in the CRV are some of the best selling vehicles in the world, it seems to be more than okay
Desperate_Platypus34@reddit
I kind of skimmed over the regular driver part, so yeah, fair point. Meanwhile, here I am looking at stroker kits wondering if 500ish hp is going to be enough, I might be more than a little biased lol
HoldingThunder@reddit
A 1971 mustang mach 1 had a 0-60 time of 6.3-6.5 seconds.
The hybrid RAV4 does it in 5.4 seconds and the standard 190 up does it in 7-7.5 seconds.
That is plenty fast enough for the average person.
Desperate_Platypus34@reddit
Well damn, that's depressing lol.... but yeah, average jackoff who never checks their mirrors, signals, or learned wtf a zipper merge is, that is by all means more than they need
pbesmoove@reddit
Have you ever seen an 18 wheeler on the highway?
No cause it can't accelerate fast enough. That's why you need at least 400 hp if you want to get on the highway
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
Okay dude 👌
decelerationkills@reddit
maybe the gas only models are a little anemic on power but i swear the hybrid models especially with awd aren’t fast but they’re decently spry for what they are
Infamous-Play-9507@reddit
How are you liking the Mazda? I test drove one recently but the kickdown pedal thing just felt strange to me. I was looking at the new Rav4, but open to other options. I do prefer to do the maintenance myself and it’s tough finding cars nowadays that are easy to work on.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
We love it! Picked up a 2022 CRX with 22k in July. Really no issues. Like the actual knob instead of touchscreen. Great in the snow and rain. The interior looks high end. I find the seats comfortable. Really no complaints.
I know people like the turbo, which has a bit more power, but I drive a lot for work and figured that was just another system that can fail.
Definitely consider them. The no CVT was a huge selling point for me.
Infamous-Play-9507@reddit
Glad to hear! I’m sure CVTs have probably gotten better, but my experience with Nissan just made me want to avoid them altogether lol.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
Lol the Nissan CVTs are literally the worst! Like worse than all CVTs.
Sounds like you've figured that out 😄
Infamous-Play-9507@reddit
For real lol even when changing out the CVT fluid every 30k miles, it still crapped out before it hit 100k miles.
mrmarkolo@reddit
What model year was it?
Infamous-Play-9507@reddit
It was a 2012 Sentra
mrmarkolo@reddit
That’s pretty much in the window of bad cvt issues they had until 2018.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
100% believe that!
The26thtime@reddit
Have you driven one with a turbo? You're missing out honestly.
Odd-Cod2516@reddit
Yes. And I did like it! But I drive over 30k a year. I'm gonna put hella miles on it.
Maybe on the next one.
pantherclipper@reddit
New RAV4 is a blast to work on. Relatively empty engine bay, easily accessible oil change panel, and bulletproof engine, transmission, and hybrid systems.
Camry shares the same A25A powerplant as the RAV4 too. Also worth looking at.
mandatoryclutchpedal@reddit
Mazdas 6 spd auto is horrific. Its like a Mazda curse. Really disappointed during my test drives. I really wanted to like the Mazdas.
The CVTs in the competition did a better job in normal driving.
Whiskeypants17@reddit
Lately? Have you ever driven a not wimpy crv or rav4 from any year? The rav 4 prime does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds and has 300hp... is that not the fastest one ever?
The26thtime@reddit
Mazda rules over any Toyota or Honda. My 18' turbo 6 is better looking and drives better than those shit boxes.
phtphongg@reddit (OP)
I get what you’re saying, especially about CVTs and smaller engines becoming more common.
At the same time, I think a lot of that comes from fuel economy and emissions requirements, not just cutting costs. CVTs help with MPG, which is a big selling point for a lot of buyers.
That said, I do agree the prices keep going up, even though the driving experience isn’t necessarily getting more exciting. It’ll be interesting to see if people keep paying the premium just for the reliability reputation.
Opening-Ad-5922@reddit
CVTs also wear themselves out by design. Literal planned obsolescence in a $30k purchase. I'll forego a few mpg's for an engine not designed to break itself.
Mazda is the only Japanese automaker who doesn't use those garbage transmissions.
Monster51915@reddit
My issue with modern Toyota is the interiors just look very cheaply built and they lack some features that other brands offer especially on their SUV’s and trucks and it’s bad especially when the pricing keeps rising. For example, it’s 2026 and most modern cars have automatic climate control. Most 40k+ vehicles have it at least standard but not the 4Runner or Tacoma. It’s an issue and while that’s a small complaint is small things like that which add up. Like the modern 4Runner again, the exterior looks great but the interior is absolute crap. Compared to all the other trucks in the USA it’s bad and unlike older Toyotas they aren’t as reliable. They slap Hybrid systems and other stuff in which sound good short term but long term become expensive and unrepairable for someone that isn’t specialized in those systems.
Autobacs-NSX@reddit
2006 Honda civic MSRP (DX base model) $23,993 when adjusted for inflation
2026 Honda civic MSRP (LX base model) $24,695
(Both are before destination charges which are about $1k)
So yeah, these models are roughly the same price they’ve always been, yet have 20 years of tech & materials & safety advancement. Better deal than ever. And if you want reliability, still the best choice.
GilgameDistance@reddit
$48,451 median household wage in 2006, inflation adjusted would be $71,157
$62,000 was the median household income for 2025.
The problem is lack of wage growth has cut spending power while inflation took place.
Some cars may not have materially increased in price, but that same car takes a larger chunk of the median wage.
UpbeatFix7299@reddit
This is incorrect. You're comparing the median household income in 2006 with the median income for a single worker in 2025
Median income for a worker was roughly $37k in 2006. Median Income for a worker in 2025 was roughly $62k
Live_Walk2757@reddit
Median household income in 2006: $48,201 Median Household Income in 2024: $81,604 Adjust the 2006 number for inflation, comes out to $74,196
UpbeatFix7299@reddit
How the fuck is $33k 10% of $48k? Your math is just a bit off. Here is a chart of median household income adjusted for inflation since numbers obviously aren't your thing
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
Live_Walk2757@reddit
Because you're comparing how much it has risen FROM $74K to $81k not $48K to $81k. It doesn't work like that I also rounded those numbers. So effectively, my point still stands, your actual buying power only rose by around 10% (rounding), meanwhile the cost of goods (inflation) has risen a lot more so you have less purchasing power
UpbeatFix7299@reddit
You are mixing up your numbers. The 10% increase adjusts for inflation. Just look at the link. Real median household income.
I know a lot of people on reddit don't want to believe it, but just a simple Google search will confirm that median household income adjusted for inflation has steadily increased.
cnolanh@reddit
Yes, but the point is that the costs of all the goods we buy have risen far more than the rise in value of our wages. Meaning our buying power is diminished even while wages have gone up somewhat.
UpbeatFix7299@reddit
The figures are adjusted for inflation. Real median income means adjusted for inflation
sarges_12gauge@reddit
??? Where do you find information this wrong
https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2025/demo/p60-286.html
Median household income was $83,730 in 2024
GilgameDistance@reddit
BLS
https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2025/median-weekly-earnings-were-1196-in-second-quarter-2025.htm
$1,192x52=$61,984.00
sarges_12gauge@reddit
That’s for a single worker not a household
Live_Walk2757@reddit
Your median weekly earnings doesn't adjust for inflation!!!! Just fyi. $34,736 in 2006 would be $56,586 in July 2026. So while his numbers were actually wrong, in terms of comparing two different catagories of income/wages, his point still stands btw. Wages haven't kept up with inflation
sarges_12gauge@reddit
Did you read what you wrote? Adjusted for inflation 2006 earnings were $56,586 and 2025 they were $61,984
How is that not an increase in wages after inflation?
Live_Walk2757@reddit
Okay, wrong word to use inflation. I mean it doesn't really apply to the price of this vehicle because adjusted for inflation, it hasn't gone up as much as wages have. But the CPI as a whole is like a basket of goods, it included electronics (which have gone down in price) and also other things like housing, which have significantly gone up, meaning you have less buying power in 2026 than in 2006. Honestly this whole concept is really hard to explain (it took me a while to understand this!), but you have to look at other factors too instead of just wages.
sarges_12gauge@reddit
??? What are you talking about. The increase in wages as a percentage increases more than the increase in price of this car AND increased by more than the median cost of all purchases (aka inflation)
BOTH of which you have shown yourself to be true!
So you’ve explicitly shown that wages have increased more, meaning median purchases (and this car) ARE more affordable
So I don’t understand how you can say that things are less affordable in general literally one sentence after showing that they are indeed (with, yes, exceptions to the rule)
UpbeatFix7299@reddit
Thank you. I don't know how they managed to screw that up. Median household income has outpaced inflation the past 20 years
AlWazzy@reddit
Also not really great the person citing stats doesn’t know how to read said stats and spewing nonsense to other illiterates.
Live_Walk2757@reddit
THANK YOU! I literally explained to this another person in this post. You have to compare INFLATION ADJUSTED NUMBERS or it doesn't mean jack shit
Fit-Tomatillo1585@reddit
This is the answer
Careful_Farmer_2879@reddit
No it’s not
fastbeemer@reddit
People are not good at comprehending history in a real way. They think current times are unique when they most definitely are nearly identical to history. Nothing really ever changes, except it feels like intelligence is declining at an alarming rate.
adamw5963@reddit
Thank you! While I realize wages haven’t followed inflation lately so things are harder to afford, I’ve seen people on Reddit claiming this is the worst time in history. Like maybe should have listened in history class a little more. Although now that I think about it they are probably still in grade school lol.
SaltySnaxx27@reddit
I kinda geeked out on this for a minute. From 1986 to 2006, inflation rose 80%, however, wages rose 85%.
From 2006 to 2026, inflation has risen 70%, but wages have only risen 55%. So even though the 2006 and 2026 prices when accounting for inflation are similar, people are making less.
Now factor in items that have risen faster than inflation, housing, education, and health costs being a large majority. People definitely have less purchasing power.
*numbers were obtained by Claude and not verified.
espressocycle@reddit
This is the answer. When I was 25 I was making $50k and bought a house for $80k. Now I'm 47 and I'm making $88k so I've barely outpaced inflation and after paying for health insurance I make less. However, a house in the same shitty condition on the same shitty block as my first house just sold for $250k. And AI is gonna take my job pretty soon and I'll probably end up making half of what I do now. 10% of Americans are getting rich and the rest are barely getting by.
pr0perlypr0pagated@reddit
has there ever been a worse time to be alive in modern history excluding wars
pizzatime86@reddit
Probably the 70s, tons of crime and inflation
IWuzTheWalrus@reddit
Don’t forget domestic terror groups bombing buildings.
stupiduselesstwat@reddit
And the terrible fashion crimes the 70s perpetuated.
Own-Secret-6523@reddit
90's. 80's, 70's, 60's, 50's, 40's, 30's, 20's, etc. The standard of living continues to rise. Most people today have not studied history properly. They would be absolutely horrified to just have to live in the 1800's. Economic, sanitation, health care, technology etc. continues to make leaps and bounds.
OpticCacophony@reddit
This is the best time to be alive in modern history.
NotTurtleEnough@reddit
I can’t think of a better time to be alive in modern history. When was it better to be a woman, poor, or a minority in the world than today?
(before you answer, I request that you consider whether your answer is US-centric)
AwardSalt4957@reddit
Great Depression?
All_Hall0ws_Eve@reddit
This just sounds like sour grapes because you chose the wrong career field. We getting by just fine.
espressocycle@reddit
Well LA TEE DA, good for you. If everybody had chosen your career field you'd get paid shit too.
Maddinoz@reddit
Capitalism with At will employment is great for the 1% at the top of the pyramid and the 10% that are well off high earners that benefit from it.
Poverty for the rest is a byproduct
sarges_12gauge@reddit
This is literally just wrong.
2006 median weekly earnings - $659
2025 median weekly earnings - $1204
That’s an 82% increase in wages over a period with 63.4% inflation
And for the car comparison:
2026 Honda Civic MSRP (LX sedan) - $24,695
2006 Honda Civic MSRP (LX sedan) was $16,710
So 50% increase in car price, 63.4% increase in overall prices, and 82% increase in wages
For the median person, yeah it’s more affordable now
Live_Walk2757@reddit
Is that 2006 number adjusted for inflation? Because adjusting for inflation, that's only $1,085 Meanwhile in 2026, it's $1204 Not that big of a rise when you actually adjust it for inflation 😐 Base civic in 2006 was around $14,760 That's $24,323 in 2026
sarges_12gauge@reddit
No, those are raw numbers to compare with
bjones1794@reddit
Except your numbers don't account for a plethora of other life necessities that outpaced inflation and wage rate increases that have drastically lowered the spending power and availability of the average American. Housing being low hanging fruit/an easy example.
sarges_12gauge@reddit
Why would they? This is explicitly a discussion about car prices.
If your electricity bill goes up by 10000% and smoothies go down in price you wouldn’t say smoothies got more expensive
bjones1794@reddit
Except the median age of a 1st time home buyer was 30-31 in 2006. Far from a recent college graduate. It's now 40 years old in 2026. So I guess the median American is now a first time home buyer! Who knew! Life costs have increased. Younger demographics do not have the same purchasing power they used to have.
How about median, middle class families looking to purchase affordable cars like, I don't know... A Honda Civic? Yeah. THEY have less purchasing power.
But speaking specifically to your final statement, NO. The car is NOT more affordable now. Yes, the car IS relatively the same in price or ever so slightly less than before when adjusted for inflation. But it is not AFFORDABLE to the majority of people who have significantly less available income to spend after taking care of life necessities. Those additional costs make the budget for a new car now out of reach, even if it's relative price hasn't changed.
And correct. I wouldn't say smoothies got more expensive. But if I pay $20,000/month for an electric bill I need to survive and my income is $85,000/year, than it sure has made smoothies less affordable because there's less money leftover for them.
sarges_12gauge@reddit
I mean, you can make stuff up all you want, and it’s clear you won’t be dissuaded.
There’s no piece of statistical evidence that exists that will tell you that the median American has less purchasing power now than in 2006. You can obfuscate, cherry pick, or insult, but you won’t be able to produce that data no matter how hard you wish for it to be true.
Sorry your life has turned out so badly, hope it gets better for you :)
bjones1794@reddit
That's an interesting choice of words, since I didn't obfuscate, cherry pick, or insult you. I responded directly to the examples you gave, and without any name calling or insults lol and what do you think I did? I literally looked up data on median incomes and home scale rates. Google produces the data plenty quickly with sources.
My life is fine? Weird comment. But I won't pretend that plenty of data, including the metrics you mentioned that I responded to among others, point to increased costs of living and less spending power in recent years 🤷♂️
SaltySnaxx27@reddit
I was quite clear that I used data from Claude and hadn’t verified it. If you’d like to share your sources, great! Not sure why you’re butt hurt!
sarges_12gauge@reddit
I am sharing information for the people reading. It’s kind of clear you don’t care whatsoever whether things are true or not
Different_Cherry8326@reddit
Yes. I’m nearly 50 and it’s amazing to me how cheap things (like cars, electronics, etc.) are compared to when I was a kid. And everything is so much better in terms of quality.
Housing? Not so much. Although if people wanted to live in 1980s standards housing instead of gutting their kitchen every 5 years that might not be the case.
SlartibartfastMcGee@reddit
That's not true, wages have outstripped inflation since 2006.
Based on median wage info from the SSA, from 2006 to 2023 (last year data is available) wages went from $24,891 to 43,222, an increase of 72%.
So without the past 3 years of wage increases, wages already outstripped inflation.
Live_Walk2757@reddit
Where are you getting these numbers from? I would like a source and especially curious to know if it's actually inflation adjusted (the wages) The median household income in 2006 was $48K In 2026 it's projected to be $88K BUT adjust for inflation That $48k is $77,805 Inflation has risen roughly 61% (verify this!) Since 2006 While median household income has only risen 13%
My point is, it's easy for us look at wages, pay, etc and see it has risen tremendously, more than inflation or around inflation, believe me, I made this mistake too when I was doing a report on my local area comparing ACS 5 year estimate from 2009-2013, 2014-2018, 2019-2023 But I forgot to adjust the 2009 numbers for inflation Raw numbers don't show the real thing, inflation adjusted numbers do Always adjust any sort of money for inflation when comparing two or more different years.
cballowe@reddit
Claud may be misleading you. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q is a chart of real median wage. ("Real" means adjusted for inflation). If one point on the line is higher than another, wages increased more than inflation over that time.
It may not tell the whole story - for instance the giant spike around COVID was a bunch of low wage jobs getting paid off while mid to high wage earners kept their jobs and worked from home.
If you break down the numbers by quintile, they all tell a similar story.
equitymans@reddit
Correct, people are very confused haha there's 10x the hands in your pocket than your parents (or your own) in 2006. That's the real difference. People think the extras have no effect? All the eating out, travel, SAAS, etc we all indulge in more than 20-30 years ago, hell way more than 15 years ago is why haha and American companies who sell said things have massively outperformed largely in public equity markets... what does that tell you?!
OpticCacophony@reddit
I feel like Reddit is gaslighting itself about how people lived in their dreamy golden eras. I remember growing up in the 90s and my family, while well off, only ever ate out like once a week at most. I can honestly count on one hand the amount of holidays we took that involved flying.
The life of entertainment and luxuries people have become accustomed to in 2026 still kind of blows my mind.
TheDibblerDeluxe@reddit
Don't even get me started on how people glaze the 50s despite the fact 1/3 of American households didn't even have running water
951frisky_dingo@reddit
90s kid here. My dad would get us pizza on Friday so we could watch the lakers game uninterrupted and would get Taco Bell every couple of weeks because tacos were 39 cents each. We never took a vacation.
Careful_Farmer_2879@reddit
Yes but that’s not Honda or Toyota’s fault. They stayed on track.
Manezinho@reddit
Inflation affects both wages and prices. I think what you’re looking for is “median” wages, which means that we’ve seen upward redistribution in the income scale in the same time frame.
vegaskukichyo@reddit
What you're getting into is a beautiful thing in economics called real adjusted inflation, which adjusts everything into the same time period for comparison.
There are also some fun charts for real wages, real interest rates, and real GDP. Sorry, I'm an econ nerd who gets excited by other nerd activity.
SaltySnaxx27@reddit
For those that are attacking my lazily obtained numbers, where would I look for comparisons?
vegaskukichyo@reddit
FRED is a good place to start - that's the Federal Reserve's data. You'll also find stuff from Bureau of Labor Statistics for real wage data and Bureau of Economic Analysis for a broad swath of income data. Google is better for finding statistical sources than LLMs. The Census also tracks some of this stuff.
PinkGreen666@reddit
No. The buying power of your wages was much better in 2006. Don’t even get me started on the home buying power. Adjusting the vehicle price for inflation only shows one piece of the puzzle. So many other parts of life have increased drastically while wages have no increased proportionately.
Careful_Farmer_2879@reddit
Your wages likely ended in 2007 though.
PinkGreen666@reddit
I was 11 lmao
Careful_Farmer_2879@reddit
So then how the fuck would you know?
Live_Walk2757@reddit
Statistics?
ScaryTerrySucks@reddit
2006 housing was right at the peak before the crash genius
ActivatingEMP@reddit
And homes are much more unaffordable compared to the median income than even then. We basically stopped building homes after 08
DickWhittingtonsCat@reddit
The wages thing is true. But the flipside is that cars were shit with orange peel paint and a 7 year life expectancy so even working class people wanted a trade in after 2 or 3 years into the 1970s
The full extent of the rust issues wasn’t even appreciated until Bretton Woods, Stagflation and energy prices doubled how long people kept cars and then the roads were crawling with rusty junk- which allowed Ziebart and Rusty Jones to make billions.
Today, we also have an extra digital services bill that combined between home office and cell service for a family of 3 or 4 is equivalent to a car lease. But the long term loans available for a car can disperse that expense.
there is some disorientation of having no inflation for so long and now some to a fair amount of inflation in recent years.
But the vehicles themselves that are continuously produced do in fact cost the same- incrementally increasing year over year.
I remember the Maverick jumped up a ton a couple times- but look at the Civic, Corolla, Camry, F150, Explorer, Grand Cherokee, or even the early RAV4 and CRV over the years and it’s clear they’ve held the line on prices intentionally and with some degree of accuracy- with occasional decontenting to keep the price down.
Cutting corporate profits and better worker protections through class consciousness wouldn’t make Toyota any more capable of creating a 17k Corolla like it was 1998.
It might make the buyer more willing to get a new car rather than a 5k used Corolla throwing engine codes, buying a Ford Escape transmission on their credit card or getting a 7 year financing deal.
But by economic quintile and the number of Americans in each quintile is a somewhat different story. There are still a lot of new car buyers, even if competition for used cars has driven up prices.
Maybe if there was a bad recession we’d see a Miser Edition Civic DX again. OEMs are only really worried about the new car buyer.
Val77eriButtass@reddit
Are you trying to say u/fastbeemer isn't good at comprehending history in real time?
pgregston@reddit
I was just reviewing decade old photos and had was $2/gallon. Crazy how consistent many prices have been.
imightknowbutidk@reddit
I don’t think intelligence is declining, i think we just see more stupid than we used to because of the internet.
morefetus@reddit
If we are more stupid, that means intelligence is declining.
imightknowbutidk@reddit
We are not more stupid, the stupidity is just more visible.
nago7650@reddit
I’ve noticed people can’t comprehend inflation during their lifetime. It makes enough sense to see a 1970 Mustang for $3k MSRP, but when the base model Mustang changes $13k over 20 years, people somehow think that’s unusual.
CuriousMost9971@reddit
Yup, they are starting to sound like my parents talking about buying a loaf of bread for 5 cents.
woodworkingguy1@reddit
But dude, I could buy a Mustang in 1970 for $3,500 new, why would I pay $29k now? /S
KillerKittenwMittens@reddit
Man, I just want to buy a 1970 mustang for $3500 in 2026 dollars
The--Marf@reddit
I just want to buy a new one now for ~$50k like my 2016 not the +$72k plus they cost.
KillerKittenwMittens@reddit
Yeah the s650 is way too expensive. It's the s550 but cheaper to build and with worse looks.
The--Marf@reddit
I'm just really starting to miss some of the more modern features. We have a new 2025 that has all sorts of neat stuff and while the 2016 vert is still fun to drive, it's definitely feeling older.
Just at 72k I might as well start considering Porsche or BMW/Merc if I can tolerate only two pedals.
KillerKittenwMittens@reddit
What specifically does the s650 have that the s550 doesn't that you want? Genuine question. I had one as a rental recently and underneath it's the same tech as my 2019 Bullitt, just with bigger screens and newer graphics. I personally found the animations in the s650 cheesy anyways, felt a bit too need for speed to want in a real car.
The--Marf@reddit
There were a lot of changes between 2016 and 2019.
The adjustable exhaust would be great. The 2016 is the world's quietest v8. But I don't want it loud all the time in the neighborhood, and the retrofit roush kit is like $2500.
Adaptive cruise/lane keep assist for long drives is the biggest one. A better blind spot system. Upgraded audio and screens would be great, heated wheel, better ventilated seats (the ones in the '16 suck ass).
Limp-Plantain3824@reddit
I think this sub needs to stick to cars and out of any serious attempts at economics.
JustaYnLivin@reddit
Brawndo the thirst mutilator will be hitting the shelves soon.
PinkGreen666@reddit
There’s already a UFC fight scheduled at the White House
JustaYnLivin@reddit
Brought to you by Carls Jr.
CrazyAstronomer2@reddit
You’re children are starving. Carl’s Jr believes no child should go hungry. You are an unfit mother. Your children will be placed in the custody of Carl’s Jr.
CupertinoWeather@reddit
Most AI phrased comment of all time.
mirageofstars@reddit
Yep. I bought a Honda accord new 25-30 years ago. It was somewhere around $25k.
ChemicalLustLabNSFW@reddit
Wages were much better in 2006
blockd2@reddit
You are missing a major factor in affordability, how much money ppl make.
In 2006, the average household income in the USA was approximately $63,303, adjusted for inflation: $101090
As of early 2026, the median U.S. household income is approximately $84000
Live_Walk2757@reddit
Average and median are two different things Median household income in 2006 was 48k, adjusted for inflation is $74k In 2026 it's around $81k For the record I am rounding the numbers cause I don't remember it off the top of my head the exact numbers So while your point is correct, that spending power hasn't risen much as inflation, you're using the wrong numbers.
Character-Brush50@reddit
No it wasn't.
Live_Walk2757@reddit
Now compare wages and pay adjusted for inflation
Opening-Ad-5922@reddit
New Corollas and Civics both have the garbage CVT transmissions now. Mazda is the only Japanese manufacturer still using geared transmissions.
Autobacs-NSX@reddit
Wrong, Toyota has been using direct shift CVTs since 2018 and they’ve been completely bulletproof since. Every Toyota CVT on the market today is equally reliable to whatever Mazda is using, your CVT hate and information is at least a decade old
Opening-Ad-5922@reddit
I guess but I'll still never buy a car with one. Whoever thought that adding MORE belts to an engine is a good idea, is an idiot.
They shouldn't have released the unreliable POS version 10 years ago to dupe the consumer, because I'll never trust it now.
Happycappybara21@reddit
And That 2026 base probably has a ton more features than the 2006. For better or worse🤷♂️
jules083@reddit
Worse.
If there was a time machine and I was offered a brand new 2006 and a brand new 2026 Civic right now today for the same price I'd absolutely be driving away with a 2006.
Most of these new features are just garbage. I don't need an app for my car, I don't care if my car has wi-fi, I don't want it to automatically brake when it gets scared. I just want the damn thing to drive.
A buddy had the auto braking thing mess up on his car, I forget the model but I know it was a Toyota. He said he was on the highway and the damn car locked the brakes up. Did it a few more times, was in and out of the dealer with no results or faults found. Got fed up and traded it in on an F-150, said he had to roll over like $8k in negative equity.
elven_mage@reddit
But but… nostalgia narrative!
cobaltorange@reddit
What's your nostalgia narrative?
Likinhikin-@reddit
Recent Honda engines are all headed towards head gasket failure. Do research.
Autobacs-NSX@reddit
Yeah like the 1.5l turbo which is almost a decade old and hasn’t been used since 2022? Maybe you should do the research
Likinhikin-@reddit
What do you mean. Class action lawsuit pending on it. But you do you.
And its still being used. Get real.
Autobacs-NSX@reddit
The L15B7 and BE absolutely are not being used anymore
Likinhikin-@reddit
BE is the main engine still used or 2026.
Autobacs-NSX@reddit
That’s great bro every car manu has made a shitty turbo 4cyl this decade and Toyota made a shitty turbo 6cyl that’s even worse. These issues do not exist at all on Hondas best cars. The civic hybrid, si, R, prelude etc all have solid engines. If you are “out” over this you were never a fan to begin with
Likinhikin-@reddit
Not a fanatic maybe, like you. Sorry you are butthurt.
Autobacs-NSX@reddit
I haven’t owned a Honda since 2010 nor would I have any desire to own one as the last good car they made was the 2008 model year S2000. Their best days are firmly behind them and that’s evidenced by the new Prelude which is a weird Prius with no manual transmission or the Integra which is a huge Accord coupe that’s $60k. But I still have love for the brand for what they made from 1988-2008 and I don’t actively champion their downfall and disown them like you are, just because they doubled down on a shitty ass engine which resulted in a class action. Which again, basically every car brand has had against them in the last 20 years for some reason. It’s interesting that you throw around words like butthurt and fanatic when you are clearly the one who is deeply wounded and cannot recover from this lmao and are downvoting all my comments like a weirdo.
Likinhikin-@reddit
You have LOVE for the brand? And from 15 years ago? Psycho.
GodsDrunkPlan@reddit
2006 salary when adjusted for inflation: $31 hour 2026 salary: $22 hour
TheoreticalTorque@reddit
All the commenters here seem to think “average car is $50k means Corolla is $50k.” Less than zero critical thinking or common sense being displayed.
BriefsTooTight@reddit
I thinks another big component is also the used market is expensive. I bought a 10 year old Honda for under 5k in high school right before Covid, now 10 year old Hondas with that mileage are going for about 11-14k. Nearly triple the price and my car was fully loaded with leather seats and everything.
bigblackglock17@reddit
The problem here is that inflation calculators are absolute bullshit.
Forker1942@reddit
2006 side airbags were not even mandatory
InternationalBite690@reddit
Who cares
Forker1942@reddit
They’re at least $1000 each so there’s the missing money from inflation
FarewellAndroid@reddit
In 2006 Air conditioning was still an upgrade/option on many cars
OneTip1047@reddit
Including the Civic. DX was no AC, had to move up to the LX for AC.
RockSteady65@reddit
Bought a 1993 Civic DX for $11,300 No air conditioning and crank windows with a 5 speed manual 40 mpg on the highway easy. Sold in 2002 with 175k. It was leaking oil on the right side but ran perfect. Never gave me any problems.
PeanutButterToast4me@reddit
You left out the part about how salaries have not kept up with inflation. So while the vehicles prices have sort of stayed in line, the people looking to buy them have not kept up and it's not their fault.
tin8374@reddit
Still have to account for the fact that wages have to kept up with inflation, so despite the cost of the car staying the same, wages have fallen relative to it.
JSTootell@reddit
I just checked. A 1990 Civic DX was $24,200 with inflation.
captainbling@reddit
Yea it blows me away how much those basic civic cost. It was a huge upgrade in life expectancy from the 80s though. I think we forget it was normal for your wages to go to mortgage first and a car 2nd. Sometimes a car 1st. And that was normal.
polycro@reddit
Dang, I did good buying a 1990 Camry in 2000 for $3k. Inflation adjusts to $5,666. Sold it for a whole $800 in 2007.
phtphongg@reddit (OP)
That’s fair when you look at it purely from an inflation standpoint, and I agree you’re getting way more tech, safety, and features now.
I think the issue is more how it feels in reality, once you add dealer markups, fees, insurance, and higher interest rates, the total cost ends up a lot higher than just MSRP.
So on paper it’s similar pricing, but for a lot of people it still feels less “affordable” than it used to.
duuchu@reddit
It has nothing to do with the car price. Other essentials have skyrocketed in price leaving less money for cars
peakdecline@reddit
One, dealer mark ups on a Civic? You'd have to be super lazy to pay those. I don't get why people are still acting like its 2022. Its not. You can get a Type R for MSRP, you can get a discount on a Civic with some modest effort.
Finance rates are just simply not something manufacturers control. But 4% looks like Honda's finance offer on a Civic... that's not terrible (not amazing either, but whatever).
Insurance definitely hasn't gone up anything beyond inflation on a Civic either.
Overall the Civic may be *slightly* more expensive now than one 20 years ago but its slight. And they're more economical, safer and better equipped.
Cynyr36@reddit
Can we plase stop with the games on car prices? It should be whatever is listed + local taxes, or it's false advertising. None of this get up to leave 3 times or ask for the manager bull shit. Do you do that with apples? Or at target?
peakdecline@reddit
I do believe a direct to consumer model would be helpful but ultimately I'm not sold that would be the route to the lowest pricing for consumers.
And that's the thing. If you don't want to "play the game" then simply pay the listed price. You'll end up spending thousands more than if you put in some effort and made dealerships compete by fielding multiple offers, though.
And while I make good money it's still worth the several hours and hassle to do it.
Cynyr36@reddit
I bought a house in 2012. I saw it over lunch, and got a call about needing to put in my "best and final" offer as i pulled back into work. There was 0 haggling, just one round of prices, and the seller chose one of them.
If they want dealer fees and shit cool, they need to be line itemed on the web price (or any other advertised price). If i turn up and it's thousands more than the web price, that should be false advertising. The dealer knows the local taxes as well.
The manufacturers should also be required to advertise the cars based on median out the door dealer price for the market the ad is running in.
peakdecline@reddit
That's an extremely atypical home buying process. You're basically suggesting you didn't even have an independent inspection done and any of the back and forth in that process. Though the lack of effort is in line with your suggestions.
Sure, I think dealers should disclose their doc fees and such above board.
Taxes and registration are more complicated. Dealers sell to customers outside of their area all the time. There's no viable way they could put that as part of the list price. If you can't figure that out ahead of time based on a list price then honestly I have no sympathy for you. You're not doing even a modicum of work on a $25K+ purchase.
Manufacturers advertise based on MSRP and manufacturer rebates. Real world pricing is almost always lower than that. So that's not an issue really either.
Cynyr36@reddit
I had the opportunity (and did) have an inspection after that bid was in and accepted. It was a take it or leave it after that. Granted it was a bank owned home that i bought. So maybe that changes things. Nothing of note was discovered during the inspection.
JSTootell@reddit
I got invoice pricing on a car in 2022!
You just had to shop around. In my case, the deal only applied to factory orders, nothing on the lot got a discount.
ariGee@reddit
That's because overall buying power has gone down since wage growth has not matched inflation in many years. Therefore, everything is less affordable than it used to be, not just cars. You're right to think that there are a lot of middle income people who could have afforded a Civic 20 years ago but can't today, but that doesn't have anything to do with Honda. The same is true of that person's home, food, childcare, and everything else.
JRoxas@reddit
Wage growth has exceeded inflation for about a decade.
Altruistic_Sun_5866@reddit
Shhhhhhh!🤫 Don't throw a wrench in people's narrative that wages haven't increased. That'll send this sub into a frenzy!
JRoxas@reddit
To be charitable, the number is a median, so there's a lot of people who are rightfully unhappy about their situation. Though the biggest driver of the increasing median number has been increasing incomes in the bottom quintile.
GilgameDistance@reddit
That graph does not overlay inflation, nor does the narrative attached make any statements or arguments about wage growth vs inflation.
Until you post something that shows the two compared to each other, this graph is meaningless in the context of wage growth vs inflation.
Try again.
JRoxas@reddit
How about you look up what "real" means and try again.
dinosaurkiller@reddit
The biggest problem is that most everyone saying prices are the same are wrong. Even if they’re right about the Civic, car prices in general are roughly $10,000 higher(even when adjusted for inflation) than they were about a decade ago.
The other issue is that saying, “when adjusted for inflation” ignores the fact that wages in the U.S. have notoriously not kept up with inflation.
Slumminwhitey@reddit
Also a new civic is a decent bit bigger than in years past as well, though just about every car has gotten bloated in terms of size compared to their historical counterparts.
PinkGreen666@reddit
Now compare the wages
brn1001@reddit
Inflation has been crazy for the last six years. Telling me something that has outpaced inflation is affordable is the definition of not affordable.
ChubbyNemo1004@reddit
Was about to post…you didn’t better. I bought it because it was cheap. I wanted a Mazda 3 but had a terrible dealer experience. I tell everyone for its starting MSRP there isn’t really a lot comparable.
SuitDesigner1346@reddit
Prices match inflation. Spending power does not.
LongjumpingDish2956@reddit
Now do them when used
fcwolfey@reddit
Honestly car prices have been pretty good. Its how much spare money you have after housing, healthcare, student loans, and childcare that have skyrocketed making it feel like you have nothing left for a new car
Own_Fruit_8115@reddit
nothing is affordable anymore
FarewellAndroid@reddit
And the average price of the new car is 50k so, relatively speaking, a car that sells for almost half that is a steal
KostyaFedot@reddit
I could get for much less and plenty in Europe. Got Toyota build cars for my family and helped relative. Mine was 24k USD, relatives compact SUV slightly above 30k usd.
I think those high prices of sold cars are particularly because people are stupid and buying not cars, but social status statements..
AngelMeatPie@reddit
Are you seriously comparing prices in Europe to those in the United States? A Toyota Sienna isn’t a social status statement, it’s transportation for a family, yet still costs $50k here.
No_Ant_5064@reddit
a sienne is the opposite of a status symbol. It means you've given up on image and given in to the practicality.
NinongKnows@reddit
It kinda is in the minivan world. It says "I put a deposit down and waited months for my car instead of settling for an Odyssey or T&C off the lot".
murgalurgalurggg@reddit
Rather have an odyssey
Enraged-Fel-Trout@reddit
Unless they're in the market for a minivan, pretty much no one knows that. For 99% of the population it's just another minivan, so not a flex to them
PrimoBachs@reddit
The Sienna is very much a flex.
onahorsewithnoname@reddit
Have you ever seen someone fuck with a dad who drives a sienna? Exactly you dont. Those men are built different.
yuiop300@reddit
lol
Mousse_Upset@reddit
To be fair, I know plenty of families that live in rural areas of France and the UK who don't own minivans. The idea that a minivan is needed to have a family is laughable.
You can safely transport a family of five in a used Accord, Camry or CX5.
AngelMeatPie@reddit
Okay, so 30,000 and 40,000 instead. No offense, I’m just really not sure that’s of any relevance or makes a strong point here.
Mousse_Upset@reddit
$30K is a lot less than $50k. Recently helped a friend get into a certified CX50 for $24K. Lots of car for the money.
Deals are there. We just have to decide what’s important. Brand loyalty isn’t worth the cost and there are affordable options.
AngelMeatPie@reddit
I’m not disagreeing with you, it’s just not relevant to the fact at all that there are plenty of cars that cost 50k or more new that are just NPC safe traffic, not a flex of wealth. The existence of better deals or fair purchases for less doesn’t negate that.
Alarming-Scratch6292@reddit
THIS.
lorddouche414@reddit
Damn you got a sienna you must be loaded
KostyaFedot@reddit
I do since I got cars at both markets.
Sienna is not present on European roads. Minivans are obsolete here.
My family car is compact Toyota and for junk moving, trailers are in use here.
E8282@reddit
Look at this guy showing off that he’s so rich he can afford an entire family AND a sienna.
AngelMeatPie@reddit
Nah I drive shitboxes from the 90s personally. But I don’t fault people who are more responsible than me for wanting new and safe vehicles.
Small_Aardvark_5496@reddit
$24K Us is more than $32K cdn.
KostyaFedot@reddit
Isn't OP in USA? I had mentioned USD. Sorry, I didn't understand.
djsimp123@reddit
U r very wrong on many levels i dont even want to bother correcting you
mugo1234@reddit
Tbfh a civic in europe is about 35k €, which is crazy and Honda's really struggling to sell them, it's a super competitive class and the civic is the most expensive of them all.
KostyaFedot@reddit
This is why i see none of these on the roads.
Nor it looks like Civic. But Accord, which they don't sell anymore.
Honda autos are getting Mitsubishi way here. Rare to spot.
Kiko4PF@reddit
Europes whole thing compared to the US is less pay but more free time (and generally more government benefits), so cheaper cars isn’t a straight comparison by USD. I am envious of the cars because they appreciate small cars and wagons there more, and I really don’t care for American car companies.
KostyaFedot@reddit
Less crazy salaries in Europe.
But working for corporation is similar slavery. And own business is same time on work is everywhere. And regular folk working two jobs is common. Second job in Belgium is tax free.
HoopLoop2@reddit
That's because people are obsessed with buying SUVs and Trucks which both naturally cost much more than a Coupe or Sedan which were both much more popular back in the older days. People also like buying above their means, and are much more comfortable taking out massive car loans these days because "they deserve it", so naturally car companies will push more expensive SUVs/Trucks with more luxurious features since the consumers now are happy to buy them.
In the older days the more expensive cars were mostly for driving enthusiasts who wanted a fast car, now it's the soccer moms who want a Lexus SUV. I think the automotive industry has done a great job at marketting the more expensive SUVs, they found out that's where they can make the most money and they sure as hell did a good job convincing the average consumer that they need one.
UIUC_grad_dude1@reddit
No one should be buying new cars if they can help it, buy 3-5 year old highly depreciated cars.
Live_Walk2757@reddit
Shhhh don't give them ideas, I want people to buy brand new cars so used cars don't get even more expensive
Teddyturntup@reddit
Average is pulled up by the exotics and euro makers
Hell you can get a brand new Wrx for under 40k
yogabbagabba2341@reddit
What? $50k? Gtfo that’s scary.
Internal_Essay9230@reddit
I was out the door in a brand new '26 Equinox for 24K. I did really well.
PomegranatePlus6526@reddit
Think it will make it to 50k miles before drivetrain failure? Will they honor the warranty or suck out like usual. You chose poorly.
Internal_Essay9230@reddit
GM owner since 1989. 1 major repair across all those years. Times left stranded by my vehicles: 0.
I choose great!
Picklechip-58@reddit
I'm just now in the process of offloading a 2017 Chevrolet Express passenger van from the fleet that I manage. It has 463,000 miles, and the transmission is spent. The engine is fine and still doesn't lose a drop more oil than it did at 25,000.
I've had similar experiences with other GM vehicles.
Equinox does have its place in the market. It's a basic SUV, and while I don't have any reason to doubt that it will go 250,000 + miles, I'm not as optimistic about it going to 450,000. That said , most people have no intention of trying to hold onto a vehicle that long.
Internal_Essay9230@reddit
Even if I live another 30 years, I don't drive enough to put 450K on a car.
Blue_Waffle_Brunch@reddit
Get out before the warranty is up
Internal_Essay9230@reddit
You're so stupid. 37 years of GM vehicles. Major repairs: 1. Times stranded by the roadside: 0.
Obviously, you're someone with a keyboard, a big mouth, and no idea what you're talking about.
Enraged-Fel-Trout@reddit
Congratulations, you're part of the 0.001% who haven't had any major issues with their GM vehicle. Might want to buy a lottery ticket with this incredible luck
Blue_Waffle_Brunch@reddit
Calm down, Mary Barra.
Internal_Essay9230@reddit
Oh, I'm plenty calm. Enjoy the road trips in your Civic. Be sure to book a chiropractor and orthopedic doctor at your destination. And thank you for supporting the Empire of Japan.
soul_motor@reddit
I'm a big dude, and the Japanese and Koreans understand the US population much better than the big three. My Honda is far more comfortable than my wife's comparably priced and sized Chevy. Traveling for work, I'm in all types of cars. Even when it meant a long walk at the GM plant for a "foreign" car, I was happier in the American built "foreign" cars.
Internal_Essay9230@reddit
Not me. I'm tall with long arms. I don't fit in many Hondas. And Toyotas are for people who don't like to drive.
Blue_Waffle_Brunch@reddit
You're in an Equinox man
Substantial-Part-700@reddit
ba dum tss
Fluffy_Grocery_3913@reddit
Brother, you bought an equinox 🤣🤣🤣
Id be suprised if you get it past 60k without major powertrain failure. These are company, lease, or rental car built. You use them for the first 20k miles and get rid of the bag for someone else to hold. Terrible cars.
Internal_Essay9230@reddit
You did all the testing and research yourself, right? And a meta-analysis of all the vehicle data, right? That's what I thought.
Tell me where you got your PhD in anything analytical. Oh, that's right -- on Reddit!
Fluffy_Grocery_3913@reddit
Yes. Go search by miles on any auction site and youll see statistically they dont last
Internal_Essay9230@reddit
Plus, your account is a month old and has 18 posts. Be gone, troll! 😆
dirtyforker@reddit
Oh my sweet summer child.
Internal_Essay9230@reddit
Indeed. 37 years of GM vehicles. Major repairs: 1. Tin s left stranded by the roadside: 0.
😆
NotMyRealAccount2226@reddit
Huh? I brought a brand new 25 Mazda 3 Sport for 25k out the door lol
adhq@reddit
Not even a 10yo Subaru ffs
Fire1777@reddit
Agreed.
maven10k@reddit
This 100%
altSHIFTT@reddit
Affordable and new car don't go together
TheoreticalTorque@reddit
Because you feel entitled to the highest trim, you snowflake.
A base Corolla can be had for $23,000 plus TTL.
Adjusted for inflation, it’s the same price as 2003, but with way more features
Own_Fruit_8115@reddit
i’m not entitled in any way. i own everything i have free and clear and i work 60-70 hr a week to do so. i probably should have worded it this way: nothing is worth the prices they are asking these days. i currently own 3 toyotas. i dont .think that today’s toyotas are of the quality of the 2003 corolla you mentioned. i had one 300k on it when a suicidal bambi jumped in front of me. the odds that a 2026 corolla will last that long are pretty low
TheoreticalTorque@reddit
Basing that on what? Around me many are used as taxis. Most are retired at about 300,000 very hard miles.
Own_Fruit_8115@reddit
based on what my neighbor says. he’s been a mechanic at the toyota dealer for 15 years. look at the tundra motors & highlander trans missions from the years i mentioned
TheoreticalTorque@reddit
This conversation is not about those. You asked for affordable cars. I gave you can actual example of a car that has zero drama going on around it. Stop trying to change the subject.
TheoreticalTorque@reddit
The hybrid ones seem to go a bit longer, at 350 to 400k.
UIUC_grad_dude1@reddit
No one is supported to buy a new car unless they have a $1m net worth, according to Dave Ramsey. The millionaire neighbor next door drive older cars.
I’m not sure how people got their brains warped buying new cars when young or poor in life.
I’ve always bought 3-5 year old used cars that were highly depreciated, until I built up my income and net worth where it was no longer an issue.
doNotUseReddit123@reddit
We’re listening to Dave Ramsey now? He’s great if you have zero financial self-control or knowledge because he offers advice that’s easy to follow and requires no mathematical or critical thinking.
The debt snowball method, never using credit cards, and working to pay off your mortgage early is just pure nonsense.
UIUC_grad_dude1@reddit
So is your pretense of everyone buying brand new cars when they have no business doing so.
doNotUseReddit123@reddit
Where did I say that everyone buying new cars should be buying new cars? I just said that Dave Ramsey is for people that are 50k in debt that don’t know how compounding interest works. If you believe that Dave Ramsey is helpful, you might just be one of those people.
Kiko4PF@reddit
Which is funny because if you listen to rap music you’d think all these rappers have pink slips on all their cars (they mostly don’t), but it feels like it’s still modest to have a late model economy car paid off compared to the bullshit every rich neighborhood clone be driving.
UIUC_grad_dude1@reddit
True
WishExtreme8104@reddit
”According to Dave Ramsey”
Own_Fruit_8115@reddit
i have the means to buy a new vehicle. i choose not to. especially since 2020. imo anything made during or since covid is junk. in the course of my job i met a guy about 20 years ago. he builds buildings in nyc. he’s worth over $100 mil. he was driving an 2000 f150. as i got to know him more i asked him why. his reply has stuck with me to this day-“i work hard to make my money grow. buying something that depreciates 10-30% the first day you own it is foolish. it’s worse for people that can’t pay cash. they borrow money, pay interest on that money to buy an instantly depreciating asset that depreciates faster with its intended use. that’s a fools game” i’ve not had car payment since. but i have a very healthy 401k
fastbeemer@reddit
They've literally been saying that since money was invented. Today is no different than any other point in the history of humans.
MeatyOakerGuy@reddit
Wages have absolutely not gone up with the cost of housing and food proportionally. My dad's starting wage was $35,000 and his starter home cost $80,000. The same career starting wage today is $60,000 and his house is worth $400,000. Even most people who bought homes before covid couldn't afford their current mortgages.
Fluffy_Grocery_3913@reddit
Well yea a 2% interest vs 6% is a magnitude of 3x.
Excellent_Plant_8010@reddit
Years ago 2-3k still got you a running and driving car even today 5k might not even get you that and if it does it's gonna have some PROBLEMS
Specific-Cattle-6299@reddit
My daughter turned 16 a year ago. Getting her a fairly decent beater with a heater was nearly impossible and took 6 months of looking. It’s insanity
Substantial-Ad-8575@reddit
Depends on where one lives. Find beaters for $4k-$5k cash all the time. Found a nice Golf for $4k, 2008 w/ 118k miles. Had engine light, needed a new gas cap, lol. That’s what my godson drives since early Feb, distracted drive totaled his 2014 Santa Fe.
Specific-Cattle-6299@reddit
Alaska - we have it a little rough up here
Excellent_Plant_8010@reddit
I bought a car for $2000 it was clean inside and out besides the dingy headlights, after I replaced them you'd think the car had 50k miles besides a light crack on the bumper. I drove that daily for 5 years before selling it, it was hit about a year before I sold it and it broke my heart. That car made me about $7,000 (not including the cars price) from the payout of it being hit and the sale of the car. Best $2000 ever spent those days are long gone unfortunately. All it ever costed me in maintenance was 1 tire, brakes and oil changes.
cashinyourface@reddit
Tell me how im supposed to live off of minimum wage right now when the cheapest rent is 800 bucks a month in section 8 housing? Unless I want to destroy my body by 30 going into blue collar work, my options are limited to minimum wage jobs like waiting tables and stocking shelves, or going 60k in debt to get an education that is completely worthless because white collar work is oversaturated, and because the older generations have 10 years of experience. The cost of living is higher than ever and the ability to get hired and paid anything is lower than ever.
Jim_Belushis_brother@reddit
“Who’re you going to believe, me, or your lying eyes”
catseye17@reddit
The problem today is financing debt. Instead of walking away from things that are too expensive, people simply go into debt to afford them without much thought. The markets will not correct themselves if demand doesn't decline due to higher prices.
Nipple_Pirate@reddit
Disconnected from reality
inferno686868@reddit
Ok boomer
wooble@reddit
You're wrong, thousands of years ago none of the people who can't afford stuff would hear your opinion and get mad at you.
Bootychomper23@reddit
For cars there has been a massive like 200% jump in cost even a used shit box is 15k
fcwolfey@reddit
That’s certainly a take
clydetorrez@reddit
Look up the term ‘stagflation’ buddy
Internal_Essay9230@reddit
I was out the door for 24K in a brand new Chevy Equinox. Only got 1K for my trade. That's pretty affordable.
wrapscallionnn@reddit
Just hope you never have to replace the battery. Or hit anything heavier than a piece of paper with your way to low and fragile oil pan.
Internal_Essay9230@reddit
Hope you never have to drive a long distance in a Corolla. You'll need a chiropractor and an orthopedic surgeon.
JCLBUBBA@reddit
except starbucks
Quirky_Literature_30@reddit
Or reliable!
Immediate-Big-4158@reddit
Because nothing really is affordable anymore, especially cars.
magowanc@reddit
Keeping with the adage that a car shouldn't cost more than 50% of your annual income, it puts a civic right at the $60,000/year income level, which is about right for entry level who should be considering buying a new car.
Reliability isn't what is driving the high cost of cars, it is all the safety features and convenience features that are driving up prices. You didn't have air bags coming out of every possible direction, you didn't have to have a backup camera. Good luck buying a car with crank windows or without power mirrors. Those blinding headlights are now standard. All of that great stuff adds cost to the car, but is now considered standard or required.
whiskey_piker@reddit
It’s because manufacturers have to keep increasing features and design on their entry level cars to the degree that eventually they grow up to mot being an entry-level car. Certainly you’ve noticed other Honda and Toyota models are less expensive?
Cloud2987@reddit
Honda and Toyota had to earn market share. Overtime their cars have proven to be good quality and reliable, so they don’t need to use low prices to get sales anymore. The new poor person’s cars are Kia.
zap2@reddit
Honda and Toyota are certainly not budget brands anymore.
They are both top of the reliability food chain. Kia has improved a lot to its reputation a decade ago. There EVs are top quality.
TheLastRizzMaster@reddit
Hyundai/Kia Ev's are insane. They blow away all of the competition. Yeah Tesla might eek them out in range here and there. But their Ev's are designed as cars. Not some ego statement. Tesla is hot garbage.
Only thing Tesla has going for them is not dealing with a dealership and the charge network.
el0115@reddit
This is a economics issue. So they were affordable and a lot of people were buying they had to up the price to keep up with inventory. Once they found out people were still buying with a high price they just kept it like that.
Scary-Solution-3070@reddit
My parents bought Honda civics growing up and when I went to replace my car, in 2015, I got a 2015 Honda civic. Hondas have always been known as reliable but not “affordable” per se. Even ten years ago Hondas were known for not being as affordable as other brands ….? I don’t think this is a new belief
sigp226r@reddit
Hey the corolla hybrid starts at 26k. Its a better deal than hyundai. Civics with the 1.5 turbo are not worth it their head gasket blows at 100k poor design honda really needs to fix that. Second choice would be Mazda people sleep on them but they are pretty reliable. Good luck
AceOfFL@reddit
Because most customers don't want an affordable Toyota anymore.
The most popular Toyota models—Camry, RAV4—are produced in the USA to partially get around tariffs but lower volume cars that have to be made entirely overseas can have tariffs of 15-25%.
Toyota had continued to upgrade models and created two nameplates—Lexus for top-notch luxury and Scion for affordability—but the affordable models just didn't sell. So, Scion was discontinued a decade ago.
The Toyota model that was even more affordable than the Corolla—Yaris—wasn't selling well in the USA and it isn't made here, either.
If not enough people buy, then Toyota stops selling them here!
AceOfFL@reddit
Having said that the price is what it is for the quality you get, and that Toyota's more affordable cars aren't sold in the USA anymore, I realized I didn't answer your underlying question.
Is it worth it?
No, the slight difference in quality on the models you can get aren't worth the price over the Hyundais and Kias that sit in the same spot that Toyota and Honda did in the 80s.
Get a Kia or Hyundai
Famous_Lock2489@reddit
Have you tried buying a used Corolla or Civic? Give that a try and you’ll have your answer.
joefunk76@reddit
Because once car manufacturers and dealers learned how much people were actually willing to pay for popular and reliable (formerly) budget cars, they never forgot. Car sales is an industry with zero good will. They will take from you every last penny you can be convinced to pay.
Like Bud Fox says to his airline worker father in Wall Street, “you don’t sell a guy a seat for $79 if he’s willing to pay $379.”
AdEastern9303@reddit
They will charge what people are willing to pay. It’s called “market value”. If people stop buying them, they will lower the price.
Turbulent-Dentist-77@reddit
Everything has gone up in price. Why do people expect cars not to?
biscuts99@reddit
Because tou sonr get paid enough
Atomik675@reddit
If we go back 20 years to 2006 the base corolla was $14,005, taking inflation into account that number is about $22,700.
A new base corolla in 2026 is $22,925, which is only a $225 difference from 2006, accounting for inflation, and it has way more features than in 2006.
I think the issue might be that we might have less disposable income or are buying things that we wouldn't have back in 2006 but I can't confirm that.
cat_of_danzig@reddit
A 1990 Civic LX sedan had a starting price of about $10,450, which ( $26,804 adjusted for inflation) is pretty close to the current base price of a Civic today. It had under 100 horsepower and went 0-60 in almost 12 seconds. It got about 30 mpg and had front airbags, power windows, and door locks.
A 2026 Civic LX sedan starts at $24,695. It has a 150 hp engine that gets it to 60mph under 10 seconds. It get \~35mpg on average, while being longer, wider, taller, and heavier. It has infotainment, keyless ignition, and automated emergency braking, lane-keeping assist, adaptive cruise control standard.
For a little less money, you get so much more car today. Granted, Honda made lower-end models in 1990 that offered fewer features. The market has said that it isn't interested. The Honda Fit was a great value, and closer to the old Civic size, but is no longer sold in the US.
yhsong1116@reddit
Sorry it’s your salary that hasn’t kept up with inflation
ZaunAura@reddit
Get CPO or from a private seller who has taken care of theirs to get them at a more affordable price.
jaymagic1125@reddit
One word, GREED!
Kappa_kin_chen@reddit
I work for the gov atm and deal with title work galore Imo There's a Toyota/Honda tax on the back end that makes even a blown out, high milage odyssey headed for Mexico, more valuable via sales tax/KBB vs a low mileage Mazda 6 or cx 90.
Its some BS, but still interesting
WhirlWindBoy7@reddit
Never heard of inflation?
ToughOk9044@reddit
Get the Elantra and don't believe the Hyundai Kia Genesis hate....if you maintain your car it will last
This-Committee9400@reddit
because they "cost more than they used to"
GhostofLanka@reddit
Affordable isn’t apart of this economies vocabulary
Equivalent_Ad9414@reddit
Thanks to the pandemic, we're about to become a third world country, where the basics like food, housing and transportation will become very expensive for the average working class to afford.
MinnesotaAccountant@reddit
I have a ‘24 Civic EX-L I bought with 100 miles on it for $28,500. Not too crazy of a a price considering how much everything else costs and that you get a great interior and gas mileage
NotLaughingAtYou@reddit
I'm a little confused. I was just at the Toyota dealer and a corolla 2026 with zero miles was starting at 20k.
Sure, the hatchback with turbo was 50k, but a zero mile basic corolla was 20k which surprised me. I almost walked out with one .
Small_Aardvark_5496@reddit
Nothing much cheaper except Hyundai venue. All cars are insanely pricy now-I just spent almost $50K on a Corolla Cross hybrid. Thankfully between my trade and cash I have no payment.
glennQNYC@reddit
Honda and Toyota are a level above Mazda, and a couple levels above Nissan and Hyundai. You’ll find much better fuel economy, reliability, and NVH. You’re paying for that.
The26thtime@reddit
Wrong
glennQNYC@reddit
I own a Mazda CX50 and have owned a bunch of Hondas. There’s good reason Mazda engines aren’t as efficient as Honda and Toyota. Engineering.
The26thtime@reddit
Mazda literally shares a plant and engineering with Toyota.
phtphongg@reddit (OP)
I don’t know if I fully agree with that. For Corolla maybe, but for Civic vs Mazda, I feel like Mazda has been just as reliable, if not more in recent years. Fuel economy might favor Honda/Toyota, but in terms of build quality, interior, and overall reliability lately, Mazda seems really competitive, sometimes even better depending on the model. I think at this point it’s a lot closer than people make it seem.
glennQNYC@reddit
Fuel economy (efficiency) delta is significant but that’s only evidence for my overall contention.
birdsofanassfeather@reddit
Wait till OP finds out every car they mentioned are all pos now too 😭
Fire1777@reddit
Use depreciation to your advantage. I will never buy a new car ever again
Large_Traffic8793@reddit
This is the opinion who hasn't tried to buy used in a while.
In 2019 I bought a new car, because I could get great warranty on a new car for like $3500 more than a similar cat with 50k miles. And that was before used cra prices for crazy during and after COVID
Fire1777@reddit
Yes the last vehicle I bought was a cpo truck in 2021. And I know that oem warranties only cover the engineers calculation of the time under normal driving conditions a warranty should cover against manufacturers defects.
I have kept up with all maintenance and have had NH Oil Undercoating done once a year.
My point is I have purchased new cars only to have them reliably fail just after the mfg warranty expires.
I now am invested in maintenance and have learned to do most vehicle wear/tear maintenance myself, I’m tired of dealership parts mark up and huge hourly labor rates knowing a fully compensated mechanic sees maybe 20% of the service invoice in their paycheck.
But moat people are not me
Intelligent_Part101@reddit
The problem is that even used cars are expensive.
The price to buy a used car doesn't seem to drop that much after just a couple of years. This is different from how it used to be.
It's because the demand for used cars is very high given that people can't afford a new one. Thus, you end up having to buy a fairly old car to get an affordable one. If you want to keep a car a very long time, it may work out better to buy a new one and just hold onto it.
Tasty_Cod_7354@reddit
A 2000 civic base model was $11k msrp, a 2026 is $24.5k msrp
Inflation corrected, the 2000 MSRP would be $21.5k in today's money
Not a big difference. Lots more tech in the modern ones. If you couldn't afford one today you couldn't afford one 26 years ago either because guess what, dealer lots didn't have them sitting on the lot at actual MSRP back then either.
spacycowgirl@reddit
A 2026 Civic is a MUCH nicer car than a 2000 Civic.
HoldingThunder@reddit
Not necessarily true since inflation has outpaced incomes.
JRoxas@reddit
No it hasn't
zerovampire311@reddit
You’re gonna need to make more of a point than posting a chart. The major issue is that while the average of inflation isn’t out of hand, the core necessities have gone wild. Rent, food, fuel, insurance, etc are not in line with the rest of the economy.
JRoxas@reddit
Rent is an issue, yes, largely because much of America has severely underbuilt housing since the Great Recession.
But not food or energy.
Also, the inflation number is based on how Americans are actually recorded to be spending their money anyway.
OpticCacophony@reddit
Downvoted for providing facts instead of vibes lol.
JRoxas@reddit
Even one person who didn't know the facts now knowing better is worth infinity downvotes.
cobaltorange@reddit
The way this is written sounds like an ancient proverb
JRoxas@reddit
I'm a middle aged Asian dude practicing to become an old Asian dude
KostyaFedot@reddit
Inflation corrections are scam. Salaries didn't went up on same rate.
Careful_Farmer_2879@reddit
Feels over reals, huh?
mandatoryclutchpedal@reddit
The Civic is a tricky example because the Honda product lineup shifted since then.
The Civic was the entry level Honda in 2000.
The Honda Fit took over that segment and then the Civic went upmarket and entered Accords segment not to long after. A Civic is a big car compared to prior years and its not a direct comparison with those older cars.
The Corolla stayed in its segment even though Toyota offered the Yaris for awhile but Toyota didn't go the route Honda did.
phtphongg@reddit (OP)
That’s a fair point, especially with inflation and all the added tech today.
I guess it just feels more expensive now because $24–28k upfront is still a big number for an “economy” car, even if it makes sense on paper. Plus with dealer markups, fees, and higher interest rates, the out-the-door cost ends up much higher than MSRP.
So while the price difference might not be huge inflation-adjusted, it definitely feels less “affordable” in practice for a lot of people today.
neverfakemaplesyrup@reddit
The other thing also is the wages haven't kept up with inflation. So it just feels like more.
Instead of an attainable option for the working class, its an attainable option for the professional & managerial class
C402Pilot@reddit
The 2000 civic represented 37.1% of the median individuals income that year. ($11,165/30,108)
In 2025 it was 38.7% ($24,250/62,608)
Not terribly far off.
For most goods wages have outpaced inflation. Where that isn't true is largely in things like housing, healthcare, and childcare.
No_Ant_5064@reddit
but the those things that you mentioned are typically the biggest expenses households have. It's great if most things are keeping pace with inflation but if "just a few things" that are growing faster make up like 50% of your household expenses, we're still screwed.
No_Ant_5064@reddit
to be honest, literally everything I buy these days feel like the number is too big.
hokie47@reddit
The thing is the only tech I want is basically a tablet that I can mount. I don't even want it integrated with the car besides for the audio.
too_old_to_be_clever@reddit
But have incomes inflated at the same pace?
Otherwise this argument doesn't mean much.
JRoxas@reddit
Yes
Tasty_Cod_7354@reddit
Reddit skews heavily towards the younger and the left and for those people no they don't make much nor have they historically ever made much
rugbyfool89@reddit
Car prices have always been on par with inflation.
Wages have not. That’s the problem
Brs76@reddit
Correct. Hence the need now for 84-96 mos financing instead of what use to be 60-72 mos.Actually its been this way for a awhile now which explains why so many are teading in negative equity which compounds the problem.
Ch4rlie_G@reddit
My father would yell at me for anything over 36months! Times have changed
Manezinho@reddit
Inflation affects prices and wages both. The issue is that wages have shifted upward in the socioeconomic scale, so people at the bottom haven’t seen the benefit.
JRoxas@reddit
Except they have, and have been for about a decade.
Cynyr36@reddit
Uea, and my merit raises just about cover inflation...
Friendly_Chair5271@reddit
The consumer drives up the price. Bottom line is, if ppl decide the don’t want to pay for something, then the companies won’t make it
IndependentPizza2608@reddit
Yea it was wither 28k for a corolla or 32k for a bmw. I don’t regret buying the bmw at all lmfao can’t believe peope are dropping 40k+ on toyotas
scootbootinwookie@reddit
they are affordable.
you just have a below-car-owning-wage paying job.
Boingboingo@reddit
Starting price on a Corolla is $23k, and a hybrid starts at $24.7k. That seems fine?
crithema@reddit
Your dollars aren't worth anything.
ReasonableRevenue218@reddit
Prices on everything went up with covid and they are not going to go down.
Intelligent-Ad-6734@reddit
The affordable ones were always the used ones that run forever.
Runktar@reddit
I got a Corolla for 22k 3 years ago.
scoopny@reddit
I bought a bare bones Toyota Corolla in 1995 for roughly 15,000. In today's money, that would be 32,000. So yeah, 28,000 is a deal.
Mundane-Exercise6333@reddit
My civic sticker was $33k but it has literally every option available in NA. Yes it’s a lot but they jam all the tech in these things now. This thing drives itself above 45mph and has the most comfortable seats for lengthy trips. I went the civic over Corolla because I just think it’s a much nicer car and more like a car and not a glorified golf cart. It’s a 6 speed manual turbo and I’m getting 40mpg on the highway. Carvana just offered me $26,800 and Ngl that’s sounds nice not dealing with marketplace peasants and right at top of KBB value. I’m at 25,668 miles.
TicTwitch@reddit
The fed has printed away the value of the dollar and were all asking why everything is inflated to hell (except for wages).
Get louder about fixing our money
heyitsmereddit@reddit
28K is not bad at all when the average new car is around 40k-50k....
CuriousMost9971@reddit
Its not, my first actually new car was bought in 23, and I paid 32k.
CuriousMost9971@reddit
Yah. We bought a 2006 corolla for 14k at the end of 2006. It was used but was pretty much new was jist bought and traded back in. But not getting a new one saved us around 4k.
Still regret not taking the dealer up on the offer to supercharged it. It was one of those TRD dealers that would supercharge anything 😂
idownvoteanimalpics@reddit
Inflation caused by COVID 19
fastbeemer@reddit
When adjusted for inflation the cars are nearly identical to 20 years ago.
ggouge@reddit
Wages have not increased along with inflation. That's the real problem.
xmodemlol@reddit
Median wage in US has gone up 20% in the last 20 years
CZ-75@reddit
Inflation caused by the federal reserve printing money. Fun fact: the federal reserve is a privately owned bank.
severach@reddit
Funner fact: it's a hybrid. It's a government backed private bank.
peoplearejustok@reddit
Because a fucking idiot got voted into office and he imposes tariffs like it may save him. Fingers crossed the trump oligarchy chokes on its own throat fuckings.
Fluffy_Grocery_3913@reddit
Again with the TDS
peoplearejustok@reddit
Get it you fucking retard! Keep sucking that big government dick!
Inevitable-Secret736@reddit
Every car went up
Auto makers don’t make. Add model beaters now
Even the bottom tier is considered a luxury car by the standards of two decades ago or 3 even
So yeah when the premium tier of the 90’s and 2k’s is now the bare minimum the base price starting has to match
It’s pretty common sense at this point
You want a cheaper one better go look at used , like really used
kthnxhi@reddit
New cars have way more fancy safety stuff now. Those extra features just add to the price tag.
jnyc777@reddit
Because ppl keep buying them even at these elevated prices
Careful_Farmer_2879@reddit
$28,000 today is $18,000 in 2010. The absolute cheapest Civic back then was $15,500.
It’s not great but not crazy either.
AES8501@reddit
Badge tax and reliability is better. Especially vs a nissan.
musicgray@reddit
My Nissan has over 200 k on it
AES8501@reddit
Single samples are not indicative of broader trends.
musicgray@reddit
Regular oil changes are the key
AmazingWorld7682@reddit
[what broader trend? Nissan almost matches Honda in reliability. Even the JD Power report says it he have less problems per 100 vehicles] (https://www.reddit.com/r/whatcarshouldIbuy/s/XJzKrgy13N)
dllemmr2@reddit
Because some people’s salaries have not kept up.
Sideburn_Cookie_Man@reddit
Toyota tax.
Large_Traffic8793@reddit
aka knowing you probably won't have problems with your car until mile 130,000
Sideburn_Cookie_Man@reddit
Pretty much.
Although arguably Mazda is just as reliable, but without the perception of being so.
HandbagHawker@reddit
Inflation, supply chain stupidity, tarrifs
wannakno37@reddit
It’s definitely a well deserved brand reputation but you’ll get the same quality from a Mazda 3. Nissan I’ve never tried but I think they sell mostly on price but their past reputation on their CVTs is not the greatest although they may have resolved those issues. Honda over Toyota if your looking for a better handling car. Toyotas base model is not that powerful or responsive. Mazda is the only one with an automatic transmission and the most powerful 4 cylinder engine. The drawback with Mazda is its not as spacious as a civic when it comes to interior room. I own a 2013 Elantra and it’s been reliable. Quality of interior and handling is not the greatest although they too have gone CVT. Many YouTube car reviews say the car with an E-CVT is the better reliable option.
funcentric@reddit
The real reason?
Companies like Mercedes and BMW released smaller cars more entry level than what their previous cars were. Mercedes came out with the A class and BMW came out with the 2 series. Instead of pricing those cheaper than the previously smaller car, they priced them the same which justified in their minds to increase the prices of the rest of their lineup.
$30k price tag for a C-class went to the A-class instead of pricing the A-class below what the C-class used to be. This was their business plan. Create a smaller "cheaper" car price it the same and then increase everything else. They're intention wasn't to actually sell A-classes or 2-series cars. They exist only as a justification to increase all the other cars, literally. So they can sell absolutely zero of their "new" models and it still would be a good business model.
Toyota and Honda never did that, but after seeing that consumers were falling for Mercedes and BMW's BS, they discovered they too can cash in on it and priced it up to the competition. Their entry level cars are now priced higher w/o having to release as smaller car. Haha! and here we are.
SuperBajaBlast@reddit
The MSRP is reasonable. It’s the dealer markups that are unaffordable and quite frankly corrupt.
Gentle_Throttle@reddit
Because income has not kept up with asset or materials appreciation. And while we all murmur the “lower price lower prices” mantra, we fail to hold corporations and government accountable for higher wages uniformly. We blame Orange Man, Sleepy Guy, or whoever is next for the increased prices, but most have increased at reasonable paces over the long term. The only thing that hasn’t kept up are wages. But instead of standing together, they have us pinned against one another, arguing about whos to blame.
Its us. We are to blame. We aren’t doing enough about it.
But yeah. Civics and Corollas are more expensive than they once were.
AltMustache@reddit
The Corolla is produced in Blue Springs, Mississippi, among other places (Toyota picked that location as wages were lower than around Detroit). When the plant opened in 2011, factory wages were approximately $20/hour. They are now approximately $35/hour. Similar story in Cambridge, Ontario. This in part explains why the Corolla is more expensive.
HungryHoustonian92@reddit
I mean to me buying a new car was never meant for people who are broke or on a strict budget. So it does not really matter how much a new car costs in my eyes.
Fact is you can still buy a used nice car for under $10k with a lot of life left.
Those people who over pay for new cars are for them. For most and anyone in a finance situation you should only be looking at used cars
Vegetable-Effort-726@reddit
Biden and company and the “free” money train to all the wrong people places and things. Inflation and greed
uncleduddly@reddit
Because they make more money on expensive cars
TheoreticalTorque@reddit
Because you feel entitled to the highest trim, you snowflake.
A base Corolla can be had for $23,000 plus TTL.
Adjusted for inflation, it’s the same price as 2003, but with way more features.
parmer9wst@reddit
They are affordable for most people with a decent job, if you keep them 10+ years it's only a few thousand a year if you average it out.
schwingthat@reddit
Cheapest price for a brand new today was once the price for the top trim models.
mefall99@reddit
The manufacturers were given the Green light to increase prices by, guess who.... We the buyers. If we balked at these ridiculous prices, they would go down. If we continue to get on wait lists to buy at these prices then the CEOs would be absolutely foolish to drop prices. We will pay whatever, it's the American way.
bulldogmothman@reddit
Well it's just kinda how the economy is tbh. I had a Mazda 3 hatchback that got totaled several months back and looked at what new ones cost now out of sheer curiosity (I was always gonna buy used again) $30K base model, $35K for the AWD version. And honestly given the prices of compact cars you get less utility out of, like the Civic, I thought that made the AWD model a pretty good deal relatively speaking lol. But used cars are the same. In the 2000s nobody was expecting to pay over $10K for an 8-10 year old used car, but now you have to look for cars that are 10-12 years old if you just wanna get under $15K 🙃
Disgusted_Mac_Lifer@reddit
Because people will pay for them.
KittiesRule1968@reddit
There are no affordable new cars
Electrical-Reason-97@reddit
I continue to be surprised that people would spend money on a new car, and in those states where it’s applicable pay a hefty sales tax and potentially excise tax and lots more for insurance instead of buying a one year-old or older, barely used vehicle. I’ve only purchased new cars twice in my life and it was extraordinarily expensive over the course of ownership compared to the used cars that I have purchased. In both cases, they were Volkswagen GTI anniversary editions only a few thousand of them built. The first one was totaled by a drunk driver and the second one I drove until about 250,000 miles. But the GTI I bought after that which had 20,000 miles on it and was two years old cost half as much to own over the course of the life of the vehicle as the new GTI..
mar78217@reddit
New Civics are not reliable. They have an automatic transmission that will grenade and you can't get it repaired, just replaced.
Colorado9885x@reddit
It all goes back to the 19th
Prize-Mail-6769@reddit
Inflation and regulation are a hell of a drug
Kind_Television5253@reddit
Jews
juanuha@reddit
Not even food is "Affordable" anymore and this mofo worrying about car prices....lol.
Likinhikin-@reddit
Sentra is low 20s. CVT issues are generally resolved since 2020.
Corolla is extremely basic, old tech transportation for reliability.
Civic engines aren't even that reliable anymore. Troublesome 1.5T and 2.0 DI.
LomentMomentum@reddit
Cars, even econoboxes, have becoming less affordable every year.
Club_Penguin_Legend_@reddit
They are affordable, its just that nobody makes enough money to be able to afford them.
gvbargen@reddit
nothing is affordable. vehicle prices have matched inflation but... well it's dang near 2x the 2010 price and normal people don't make 2x the money.
TearAccomplished7894@reddit
They arnt as good as they used to be. Particularly the Civic.
phtphongg@reddit (OP)
Yeah that’s true
Picklechip-58@reddit
Cars are expensive. AFFORDABLE is a relatively term. What's not affordable to you is that it is very affordable to others. You ought to know that.
Remarkable-Athlete48@reddit
In Singapore either of these cars costs close to 200k USD
RemoteVersion838@reddit
This is your answer in today's market of unreliable cars with complex and expensive failures.
wolfpack_57@reddit
I think that those two have moved a little upmarket. Due to their positive reputations, they can charge a little more than Nissan or Hyundai
Cheeky_Banana800@reddit
That’s my take, too. Most non-american cars will last 10 years with regular maintenance as per schedule.
If you’re the first owner, chances are you’ll change the car much before that.
Ok-Clock-8246@reddit
The FTC just came down on dealerships for pricing so things might change but Covid made these people realize they could get away with basically get away with legal theft. They got greedy and kept carrying on that way.
theogthrill@reddit
It’s laughable to me. You can get a way better car that isn’t cheaply built with cheap plastic parts for a little bit more money.
ottrocity@reddit
Class warfare from billionaires pitting the working class against each other via political divides distracting us from the realization that they're hoarding all of the wealth while we struggle useless against each other rather than rising up en masse and destroying them, then passing legislation to prevent something like a billionaire from ever existing ever again.
Square_Ad_4929@reddit
It’s everything that has to be built into a car anymore. Everyone wants power everything. The NSTA requires antilock brakes, traction control, etc. . It all drives up the cost
NauticalNoodles@reddit
We are in the end times friend
Slipknot31286sic6@reddit
Look at the big 3. Dodge, Chevy and gmc. They believe Americans wants 90k pickup trucks and suvs. Then again Americans like to live in debt and luxurious vehicles they can't afford.
Toyota and Honda is only brands still doing budget cars.
But is it budget enough when you are a few thousand away from a saburu cross trek cuv or a Mazda cx 30?
phtphongg@reddit (OP)
Yeah that’s a good point. It feels like everything is getting pushed toward higher-priced SUVs and trucks, and even “budget” cars aren’t really that cheap anymore.
And you’re right, when a Corolla or Civic is getting close in price to something like a Crosstrek or CX-30, it makes people start cross-shopping instead of just defaulting to a sedan.
At that point it’s like, are they still really “budget cars,” or just the cheapest option in an overall more expensive market?
Slipknot31286sic6@reddit
Not even forgetting. You even looked inside a Honda or Toyota? It's basic basic basic for the price 😑. Add the options you want and it's extra 10k. Even then you are still questioning are you paying for reliability name and features in the Flintstone age?
Forker1942@reddit
Base Tacoma doesn’t even have a thermostat. Just a knob with red and blue on a gradient.
Downtown-Tourist6756@reddit
That’s how most cars were before like ten years ago and it was perfectly fine. Base model pickup trucks should have basic features even if everyone is trying to pretend they’re luxury vehicles now.
Forker1942@reddit
You’re right, but I don’t believe the electronics cost that much. $10 thermostat and $10 watch LCD?
It probably costs more to even have the different option, it’s just a punishment for not choosing to upgrade.
knight9665@reddit
Government regulations.
The government keeps adding new regulations to cars and that drives up the drive. Along woth raw material costs.
Like thunk about it. Thebold 90s civic was an engune and transmission and that was about it. Now every car has backup camera and all sorts of tech as standard.
Then-Ticket8896@reddit
What is affordable today?!
WSquared0426@reddit
Endless money printing to cover the fiscal irresponsibility of DC
Rare-Bet-870@reddit
Tech, luxury, safety standards. I mean there’s no simple vehicle I think, my basic v8 has cruise control but also lane assist and automatic breaking.
Technology raises prices
Crazy_Rockman@reddit
It's not good when your car automatically breaks.
Rare-Bet-870@reddit
Yeah my truck randomly dies if i dont drive it for a few days because it always trying to connect to a modem and cellular connection for the phone access. Like I had to park for a few days and because I couldn’t drive it needed to be jump. Do you not know that can happen?
Crazy_Rockman@reddit
I just made a joke about your misspelling (automatic braking->automatic breaking). I know car battery can die if the car is not driven.
Rare-Bet-870@reddit
I don’t think I have emergency braking when it comes to front end collisions or back end. No but in my truck because of the electrical system I think it just dies like it suffers from phantom drain. I’ve even switched out the 12 volt but I never had this issue on my older truck. That had zero cellular connection but with my 2024 it does die if I dont drive it for a few days
WarCrimeGaming@reddit
What car is it
Rare-Bet-870@reddit
F150 single cab
Stangboi92@reddit
My basic V8 has cruise, AC, and power windows. And “premium Audio”. That’s it
Rare-Bet-870@reddit
From what year?
Stangboi92@reddit
lol 1992.
Whiskeypants17@reddit
New cars can only be compared to new cars. They have never been affordable for the majority of people. The issue now is that we have 2x as many people in the usa as we did in the 1960s, but we are selling the same number of new vehicles.... so with twice as many people needing used vehicles... the value stays crazy high. 10 year old 100k miles beaters used to be $1000 but now they are $10,000 it is crazy.
What's funny is new cars themselves are only up~5% vs base inflation, but insurance is up 50% so most of the cost increase isnt the vehicle itself.
https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/prices-for-new-cars-up-5-percent-insurance-50-percent-over-last-10-years.htm
rubey419@reddit
Why is fast food expensive now? Probably same reason.
mandatoryclutchpedal@reddit
Tossing the inflation argument aside, Civics are Accord sized now and starts at 25k. If a dealers doesn't have a base model in stock, just order it.
Corolla base price is 23k.
You dont need to buy the loaded version on the lot.
Are you saying that Corolla is not an affordable car?
crevicecreature@reddit
I rented a 2024 or 2025 Corolla from Enterprise in October. It had self driving features which I am sure adds a lot to the cost. If self driving isn’t an option that could have something to do with it.
macher52@reddit
I’m keeping my 2013 Civic EX with 70k. Not the most modern but reliable.
DinoTh3Dinosaur@reddit
Literally false lol
phtphongg@reddit (OP)
Why?
DinoTh3Dinosaur@reddit
Exact same price today as it was back in the 2000s when you adjust for inflation. Literally not a penny off
SpeedySpartan@reddit
As much as inflation is to blame, the truth is that people just do not want cheaper cars. People have had the option of the nissan sentra base in the US for a long time, a car that was one of the only vehicles to start under $20k, and no one bought it. People would rather stretch an insane car loan to get the generic SUV/Crossover thingy they've always wanted, or just go to the used market instead.
Kayel41@reddit
The value of a dollar is less than
AskForNate@reddit
I think I saw somewhere for the first time in America there’s more new cars for sale more than $40,000 than less than $40,000 (I feel like I saw that headline… Might’ve even been $50,000)
MinuteDrive5639@reddit
Because nothing else makes sense. All the expensive cars are equipped with heavy deck and parts which got spoiled quickly hence the depreciation.
Kind of one of the reasons
JJ-Dream-Big@reddit
It’s because car price went up overall 50%. Not just Corolla or civic. Pilot and Highlander is above 50K.
This is because our smart government likes to fuck with us. Now they gifted us 50% up at the pump too.
kooldudeV2@reddit
The Corolla might be but the Civic 1.5t is basically a shit TSI engine Look up the issues the 1.5t has. It is insane. I can't believe Honda allowed that engine to come to Market regardless of how much the cars cost new in 10 years, the buy a used Civic and have no problems is going to be a thing of the past because you're going to be having all the same problems someone with like a mark 6 GTI has but without any of the fun or reason keep the car.
Direct injection turbo makes no sense for a Civic, especially when they have these hybrid systems.
Nessuwu@reddit
Mazda should not even be in the same conversation as Nissan (or even Hyundai) imo. They don't have CVTs that crap out like Nissan, and their engines are more reliable. Hyundai is getting better but has a ways to go before they catch up with the likes of Honda, Toyota, and Mazda.
Entire-Let4301@reddit
You can get a Corolla hybrid for under $30k.
OkWoodpecker5612@reddit
Inflation
No_Ant_5064@reddit
if people will pay that price, then companies can charge it. Simple as that. People are willing to pay a little extra for civics and corollas precisely because they have such a great reputation (which may or my not be accurate going forward).
LemonPress50@reddit
I own a 2012 Mazda3 since new. Best car I have owned. More fun to drive than my 1989 Honda Accord. Not as much fun as my 1984 BMW 318i.
New-Anybody3050@reddit
New and used market is trash. Interest rates and inflated pricing are tough.
FutureHendrixBetter@reddit
Thank the youTubers and tiktokers and other “content creators” / “influencers” for giving them so much exposure
TurnipNorth1447@reddit
The difference between buying Honda/Toyota or nissan/Hyundai/Kia is the value down the road (resale).
ImolaBoost@reddit
They’re the same price adjusted for inflation. It’s wages that haven’t kept up in terms of the median.
sault18@reddit
You're paying for the reputation. And that reputation has been earned by consistently delivering dependable vehicles. If they're too expensive to buy new, just look for 1-2 year old used ones. They're basically as good as new and the previous owner took the biggest depreciation hit for you already.
DickWhittingtonsCat@reddit
This is a wrong opinion that unfortunately reflects wage stagnation and the fact we had no inflation for so long and also rose colored glasses.
Adjusted for inflation the Civic and Corolla have cost EXACTLY the same for at least 30 years. The only exception is they were a smidge cheaper during the 08 and 09 recession.
How much is an 1992 11K Civic DX Sedan with no AC, stereo, hubcaps, floor mats, no cruise, no outside passenger mirror or vanity mirror?
$25,500 is the answer. What is the MSRP of a 2026 Civic LX? $25890. A 1992 Civic EX Sedan automatic- the equivalent of a Sports Touring was $15000 or $34000.
The same holds true for any continuously produced vehicle- obviously a 2026 Civic based Prelude costs less than a fancier 1990s Prelude for example- because their prices increase incrementally each year to account for inflation.
The only exception I can think of off top of head is Ford had to pump up the Maverick’s base price by 3 or 4 grand a couple times because they underestimated demand and overestimated how much people want Miser Edition vehicles when financing makes it so easy to upsell trim levels.
I don’t know as much about used car prices. But the issue with those is also that the average car now lasts 17 years and average vehicle on road is 12. After lease returns, a nice 80k mile car being sold for no reason makes zero sense unless you had a big lifestyle change like a kid- hence the market has a lot of other people’s problems for sale
BekindBebetter60@reddit
Because our government has made bed policy decisions which do not benefit you. Stop voting Republican and foe Democrats who support policies that benefit billionaires and not the greater good.
Brilliant_Eagle3038@reddit
Why is it even a qn? How many airbags n sensors are there in a new corolla or civic ?
Versus same brand from 20 yrs ago
spongebob_sideboob@reddit
Mazda is always the amswer. They have publicly stated they will never produce a cvt. Woth that being said. Honda and toyota always lose from here on out. Honda lost my business when they discontinued gas mowers.
ExcellentWinner7542@reddit
Since you are obviously not an enthusiast, just about any entry level vehicle will meet your needs as basic daily transportation. My rule is to stay clear of Mazda and the Korean or Italian entrants and you should be fine. Don't even get me started on Nissan, a car company so sketchy that their CEO had to be smuggled out of the country in a cello case.
Rough_Cancel7265@reddit
Well first, "around you" might be higher. Maybe the trim levels the dealers are ordering are optioned up, maybe there are markups. But it is possible to get a new Corolla for under $23000 today. But would a new buyer want one? You're asking someone in 2026 to buy a brand new car with
-Steel wheels with hubcaps -Cloth seats with no heating -No smart key -No wireless charging -A worse exterior
I think for a lot of buyers that's a hard sell. And if it's framed as "the monthly payment only goes up X dollars a month", buyers would probably find that extra worth it.
KostyaFedot@reddit
Those two were mostly popular in America/Canada, it seems. Once those markets became saturated, price has to be jacked up to make a feeling it is kind of "luxury". Japan engineering is not a fake news as German engineering, after all.
I moved to Europe recently. Civics are rainbow unicorns here.
And Corollas are massive station wagons with matching price. Not popular.
In Europe Toyota offers ten year warranty and Yaris, Aygo are in Civic, Corolla category. Compact cars with 1.5 no turbo crap engines, plus one electrical motor.
But for the West been on war against cars it is expected to have no affordability on cars.
millenialismistical@reddit
I got my Civic EX in 2000 for around $16k out the door. After inflation that $16k in 2000 is around $30k in 2026.
YeetThatLemon@reddit
The way I see it is that all the affordable compact cars skimp somewhere to stay affordable that makes it so it almost evens out with the competition in that class segment.
Carolla, you get class leading reliability and mpg, everything is just so "car" about it no thrills, just your ol' workhorse. You can even now get in AWD, BUT you get lack of more modern tech, as well as a very cheap interior even for the class segment.
Civic, you get 3rd place reliability, as well as second place for mpg, but mostly, especially in Hatchback form but also in Sedan form, you get the best amount of storage both for cargo but also for your everyday items in the front seat as well as decent driving dynamics and decent tech. BUT, sound deadening lacking even compared to the Carolla, paint quality sucks as usual, and the safety ratings are....serviceable, given the modern safety requirements.
Mazda 3, you get second place for reliability, you get a VERY nice interior given the price point and driving dynamics are amazing. BUT the ride is harsh due to Mazda's zoom zoom philosophy and because it's cheaper than providing a softer ride, and you get probably the least amount of space for anything whether in sedan or Hatchback, out of the options and visibility SUCKS. MPG compared to the competition is also lackluster and Mazda still uses their trident and true 6 speed as well as NA Skyactive as the default engine option to save on production cost of having on not having to make their own CVT or new engine design to improve MPG.
Snentra, up until recently, was the second most economy car ever, for the US market (RIP Versa), you sacrificed everything just to get the cheapest price OTD and good mpg, reliability meh, ride quality atrocious, interior cheap and rattley, tech also meh (in comes the new gen here), but hey you could get it for stupidly cheap and anywhere would finance you for one regardless of your credit and it was transportation.
Elantra, you get class leading tech in this segment of car, interior that shines above all but the Mazda, and above average MPG. It's the most modern of the bunch, BUT your reliability is underwhelming to outright bad as build quality remains inconsistent with Hyundai and Kia vehicles, ride quality is above the Sentra but below the other 3, it's harsh in a cheap way rather than with at least some purpose/ intent like the Mazda 3, storage is average, and the drive is probably 3rd place for least inspiring. But again it's a modern economy car that actually looks somewhat pleasing on the eyes.
The point being, is that the reason people default to the Carolla/ Civic even today despite the higher prices is because they are the most well rounded of the bunch, they are economy without being outright poverty, they are economy without trying to be sporty and harsh, they are economy without trying to be the flashiest with the most tech. They are economy for people who want something that does a little bit of everything okayish rather than specializing in one area.
What is and is not a great deal depends on the buyer's preference here, yes, the Elantra or Mazda 3 or Sentra can be had cheaper than the Carolla or Civic but you have to sacrifice something for it, and the average buyer hates making long lists of pros and cons and doing research so they just stick with what they know and with the vehicles that just do everything well even if it means spending a little extra.
Gullible-Coconut-783@reddit
Lack of competition doesn’t help.
jm31828@reddit
In 2019, I bought a new 2019 Toyota Corolla- base model, for $16,900 on an end of model year closeout sale. I know 2019 was a few years ago now, but it is wild how that kind of deal is nowhere to be found anymore for such a basic car.
scrappybasket@reddit
Wages haven’t kept up with inflation. And seemingly everything else in life has has skyrocketed in price so buying power is reduced even further
Samsonlp@reddit
People are drowning in advertising and shit. They think they are supposed to be rich. The truth is that billionaires exist because other people are poor. Good luck . Buying a new car is maybe a twice in a lifetime experience.
OHMEGA_SEVEN@reddit
Hyundai and Nissan have been suffering some quality issues over the last decade. Hyundai with theft and lack of engine immobilizers and engines failing, Nissan with CVT transmissions that come apart.
Mazada however is been climbing in reliability pretty quick and I think it's a brand a lot of people are sleeping on.
Even Toyota is having some QC issues these days.
Gods_ShadowMTG@reddit
Tariffs
badtux99@reddit
Inflation.
$28k today would be $13,272.34 in 1996 dollars, according to the CPI calculator.
CA2DC99@reddit
Google the depreciation graphs for each of those cars, and you’ll see why people pay more for Honda and Toyota. If you buy a new car that has high depreciation you are literally throwing extra money away daily. Some people are rich and don’t care, some do.
Powrs1ave@reddit
Just saw the Fast versions of these two today against each other on an old episode of Top Gear Australian version. I thought damn thats not cheap!
revocer@reddit
The Civic and Corolla became the size of the older Accords and Camrys.
IMHO, they aren’t the economy options anymore like they used to be.
SirAlfredOfHorsIII@reddit
Adjusted for inflation, the price is pretty consistent. We've had some huge spikes in inflation in the last few years
TheAmazingDevil@reddit
Camry is the same with affordability.
Vivid_Emergency_360@reddit
It’s the tariffs. Nothing is cheap anymore
ScaryfatkidGT@reddit
Nothing is… Mitsubishi dropped the Mirage, Honda dropped the Fit, Hyundai dropped the accent…
dumpin-on-time@reddit
salaries and wages haven't increased with inflation
Engine_Sweet@reddit
They are not "supposed to be affordable." They are supposed to be profitable.
They are products on the market, and a lot of planning goes into what they cost to make and how they are priced.
H_rusty@reddit
their reputation is why they are marked up.... go with mazda or subaru if you want japanese reliability
Visual-Taro-381@reddit
Oh the luxury to "get bored and change out every few years". I'm driving mine to the ground.
athensslim@reddit
Corolla and Civic have been some of the higher priced choices in their market segments going as far back as the late 80s, particularly when you take equipment levels into account. Sentra and Mazda’s compacts (323, Protege, 3) have long provided more car (if not necessarily a better engineered or higher quality car) for similar/less money.
Leading_Ganache_6787@reddit
Government regulations safety. Customer demands AC /Power windows etc.
Free2Travlisgr8t@reddit
Buy a 3 yr old Corolla or Civic - huge discount. Carmax is who I use.
SheffboiRD06@reddit
Prices have gone up a little bit, your salary has not.
Booyahshakeit1@reddit
Because they are having major problems and Toyo just got hit with a class action lawsuit that they are gonna lose and they are bracing for impact both makes are becoming yesterdays garbage
Gunk_Olgidar@reddit
Now you know why government handouts of multiple thousands $$$ for each taxpayer are a VERY bad idea.
We (us taxpayers) all got a one time benefit and will be paying it back many dozens of times over for ever and ever with every dime we will ever spend for the rest of our lives, and our children's lives, etc.
Dierks_Ford@reddit
Because consumers demanded higher prices.
timotur@reddit
Just for reference, bought my 2001 Corolla for $17.5K, and 25 years later has 240K trouble-free miles. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy the oldest one you can find that’s well maintained.
kgpaxx@reddit
They are not really reliable anymore either!
phtphongg@reddit (OP)
Yeah I agree with you, Mazda3 is way more reliable than Honda Civic, i’m not sure about Toyota Corolla but it’s way more fun to drive compare to it
kgpaxx@reddit
Corolla has its share of problems...especiallythe fact that the engineburns oil.
Electric-Travels@reddit
Partially because they are larger than accords and camerys 10 years ago.
espressocycle@reddit
Adjusted for inflation they're about as cheap as they've ever been and you get a lot more.
Maximum_Dweeb4473@reddit
I think part of it is people want a reliable car that doesn’t cost a lot to maintain so they can use it for a long time, but if they’re going to drive it for 10 years… you don’t want it to be as bare bones with no features lol.
You can be financially responsible without being stuck in something as cheap as a Kia or Nissan lol
Stangboi92@reddit
If you’re not planning to keep it but just a couple of years, lease it. You don’t have to worry about market values or depreciation
Tasty_Cod_7354@reddit
Leasing is the worst decision anyone can ever make
MEINSHNAKE@reddit
I would argue you’re better to lease a luxury car, because buying a luxury car is truly the worst decision anyone could make.
Tasty_Cod_7354@reddit
Either way with leasing you are paying for the depreciation while you own it
And not all luxury cars are inherently bad decisions if you can afford them.
Stangboi92@reddit
Unless you pay cash for the vehicle, you don’t own it for at least 5 years. Luxury cars especially, lose value like an anchor. If you’re one of the MILLIONS of people that trade vehicles in every 3yrs or so, you’re losing money on the purchase and trade cycle. Lease it, and you won’t have that to deal with. Unless you keep buying shit, in which case, you’ve got bigger problems. And just to be clear, I don’t mean YOU specifically, Tasty_Cod
Tasty_Cod_7354@reddit
Leasing you pay the depreciation hit and then end up with nothing.
At least if you own it you can sell it later and get some money back. It depends on how long you plan on owning the car but the right decision in any case is to buy used when most of the depreciation hit has already occurred instead of buying new.
Stangboi92@reddit
But then you run the risk of it having been someone else’s headache. If you’re going to get preowned, make sure it’s a CPO, that way you have a FACTORY BACKED warranty. Not some bullshit dealer warranty that requires you to take it back to THAT dealership
Tasty_Cod_7354@reddit
CPO warranties usually last like a year, sometimes 2. Neglected cars will have issues far past that and really for their whole lives. CPO is still preferable but at the end of the day more priority should be placed on a thorough pre purchase inspection over just having a CPO warranty.
Stangboi92@reddit
To an extent, yes. But 99% of dealerships won’t allow the vehicle to be taken to some other location to be inspected, nor will they allow some random “technician” to use their lifts. And the1% that will, probably will require the salesperson to accompany the vehicle to make sure nothing happens to it
MEINSHNAKE@reddit
Oh absolutely, your 100% correct there.
I just think luxury cars in general should be leased, reality is, if you buy it, you’re going to want to sell it in a couple years, which is a hassle. If you’ve got the money you won’t want to deal with that, and don’t care about losing a bit of money to depreciation.
I’m not talking about “performance cars” that might also be brought to the track etc. or enthusiast cars, just needlessly fancy ones.
HoldingThunder@reddit
100% not true. The pricing of the lease is directly related to the depreciation and market values.
Stangboi92@reddit
And THAT is 100% inaccurate. The payment of the lease is based on the residual value of the vehicle. If you pay off the lease, you’ve got 3 options; turn it in, and walk away, turn it in/trade it on a new vehicle and possibly use the equity, or buy it out. I do this daily, and have sold more cars than you’ve bought
FearlessChange@reddit
Yeah the payment is based on the residual because the payment is for the depreciation 😂
Stangboi92@reddit
But at the end of 3yrs, unless you got put together because you didn’t pay attention to the mileage at time of purchase, you won’t be in a position that you’ll have excess charges, or the value of the car went to absolute shit. Average mileage for driving these days is about 15k/yr, but most leases can be tailored at time of purchase for your needs.
HoldingThunder@reddit
The residual value is based on depreciation.
JoeFromStPaul@reddit
Yes, it is possible for your car to beat the lease's depreciation table and get cash back at the end of a lease too, if you're lucky.
TopNotchJuice@reddit
Because nothing is dumbass
NeedleworkerNeat9379@reddit
How are they not affordable? A brand new civic near me is about 25k. The average new car price is 50k and the Civic will have way cheaper maintenance
194884tiger@reddit
🤔that sounds like the price of a hybrid. The two levels of gas msrp is less.
Geoarbitrage@reddit
By design.
phtphongg@reddit (OP)
Yeah I get that, the Corolla is reliable, but by design it’s pretty plain and not that exciting to drive. It’s more about being practical than fun.
Geoarbitrage@reddit
I mean financially. All new vehicles are overpriced and overly complicated.
phtphongg@reddit (OP)
Yes but for Mazda, Nissan, Subaru etc, they would have a heavy discounts because they cannot sell as well as Honda/Toyota, it’s should be the better deals than Honda/Toyota right?
Geoarbitrage@reddit
Should be but I’m skeptical.
mrchowmein@reddit
Naw, cars like a lot of manufactured goods have gotten cheaper overtime after adjusting for inflation. Japanese cars have gotten more features and more reliable. If your salary kept up with inflation, a car purchase would consume the same percentage or less of your income when compared to 20 to 30 years ago. But for a lot of people, it’s the opposite, as a car purchase might be consuming more of their income as they are buying cars that are actually more expensive than what they would’ve bought 20-30 years while their income stagnates.
WarCrimeGaming@reddit
The newer civics are pretty nicely equipped
simple_fly1@reddit
Higher resale value lets you drive a nice, very reliable vehicle for less per mile that the less expensive vehicles. The last 2 Toyota Rav4 we have had cost little per mile in depreciation and an AWD SUV style vehicle getting between 30 to 40 mpg is pretty economical tp operate too.
Cars_Bars@reddit
28k for car that can last 10-20 years is an insane value. $7 a day for peace of mind is a damn good deal with the tech today that you receive.
ariGee@reddit
This isn't a Toyota or Honda problem, it's an economy problem. If you're in most western countries today your house and food are also less affordable today .
TypeToSnipe@reddit
Because most people are programmed like robots with 'only civic or corolla' in their heads, thus demand shoots up, causing prices to go up.
I don't usually keep my cars longer than 8 years or drive a lot of miles, so reliability in the sense that a car can go 3-400K miles is meaningless to me.
I can't imagine looking at the same car or interior for decades. I'd be bored to tears.
phtphongg@reddit (OP)
Yeah I actually agree with you. A lot of people just default to “Civic or Corolla” without really looking at other options, which probably drives demand and keeps prices high.
And same here, if you’re not planning to keep a car for 300k miles, that level of “ultimate reliability” doesn’t really matter as much. Most modern cars can last a long time with proper maintenance anyway.
Plus I get what you mean about getting bored. Driving the same car for 10–15+ years isn’t for everyone.
PowerfulFunny5@reddit
I think they say that when a new Civic model is introduced, it’s the same size as a 13 year old Accord. Civics used to be tiny. Now they are chunky bois.
zap2@reddit
I will say the massive size of the Civic id disappointing. That doesn’t fully explain the cost issue…but it sucks for there to be so few tiny/moderate cars for sale new.
Bill_747@reddit
Probably the demand is high for those cars since everything else is expensive
Jaqen_M-Haag@reddit
Brand reputation is definitely driving the price up but they also have a reputation to maintain which keeps them from taking as many chances on cost-cutting measures. If Kia or Nissan have a dip in reliability people are more forgiving, but Honda and Toyota have more pressure to be consistently the best. Therefore their cars do cost more but people are more willing to pay more for the peace of mind.
Beauty_iz_hername79@reddit
No such thing as an affordable or cheap car anymore.
FormerLaugh3780@reddit
Because there's too much money chasing too few cars.
Graflex01867@reddit
Practically no one buys cars focusing primarily on the price/financial implications. If they did, they’d probably be looking at lightly used Civics/Corollas, with a couple thousand miles on them, and saving a couple thousand dollars on the purchase price.
If I look new, I’m seeing Civics listed around $28k. I’m seeing many used ones, 2 years old, around 20k miles, for closer to $23k.
For a car that will last you 15+ years and 200k+ miles, I think $23k isn’t bad. You can still get a slightly older but perfectly reliable Honda for less than that.
Malakai0013@reddit
Its not that new cars arent affordable, its that wages largely are becoming unlivable.
https://www.weforum.org/stories/2020/11/productivity-workforce-america-united-states-wages-stagnate/
Kent89052@reddit
The reliability of those 2026 caes is a guess. Sure the cars with those names built 20 years ago have a proven reliability record. Unfortunately, the cars built today have the same name, but many differences. One of the key differences is the reliance on electronics for engine and transmission control.
RickSt3r@reddit
People don't have time, skills, or space to shade tree mechanic a used elantra to 300k miles. All cars will need maintenance just the intervals change a Toyota you can get to 200k miles plus or minus 25k miles before you need some more in depth replacement parts. A Kia about 150k miles.
Had a subordinates who switched careers and was a master mechanic prior. Dude loved used elantra about, 7 year old was the sweet spot he said. He could get them super cheap throw in a few hundred dollars and drive them around for five plus years and rinse and repeat. Would get rid of them right before suspension issued would start to show up.
igomhn3@reddit
Honda and Toyota hold value better so you break even.
engineered-chemistry@reddit
Cars are roughly the same price adjusted for inflation. Intelligence has been a steep downward slope unfortunately.
phtphongg@reddit (OP)
I get your point about inflation, but I don’t think it’s that simple. Even if prices are similar on paper, things like interest rates, insurance, and overall cost of living make it feel way less affordable for a lot of people. Also no need to bring intelligence into it, people are just reacting to how expensive things feel in real life.
clutchthepearls@reddit
They are in the sense that their prices have been steady in rising with inflation.
Wages have not.
elmatt71@reddit
Yes, it does seem that finding a truly inexpensive car that will last many is tough these days. As far as when to play the Toyota or Honda “premium tax” I look at it this way. If you can easily pay off your car in 5 years or less and you don’t plan on keeping for 10 years and/or 100k miles or more, it doesn’t matter what make and model you buy. They will all last at least 5 years relatively problem free. So, buy whatever you like and can comfortably afford. If you do plan on keeping a vehicle for a long time, 8 years or more, then I think it is worth paying a premium for a Toyota or Honda.
Playful_Elk3862@reddit
The comment "no more boring cars" destroyed that plan 🙄
23ioo@reddit
Wall street is doing this. They’re artificially pumping up prices to make money off people, and banks are also enjoying the interest payment.
FaithlessnessRich490@reddit
I recently rented a new Civic that car is shité