On This Day in 2022, China Eastern Flight MU5735, a B-737, crashes in Tengxian (China), all 132 aboard die. Jet was enroute, at 29000 ft, when it entered a dive and hit ground in a near vertical attitude. Inquiry was not made public: media reported possibility of an intentional nosedive
Posted by Twitter_2006@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 81 comments
TomChai@reddit
China’s CAAC is withholding the investigation report, likely for political reasons. Can we petition to the NTSB to release a transcript of the CVR?
s0ul_invictus@reddit
Why? Who is China blaming? No one. Unlike another country, who is still throwing a walleyed shit fit and blaming the aircraft, long after that possibility has been eliminated, China has never denied that it was the pilot, nor blamed the aircraft.
If they had blamed the aircraft this would be a completely different situation, but they didn't. They said it was fine, they allowed it to be investigated to ensure it was fine. They had Boeing investigators on the ground almost immediately. If someone still doesn't feel safe flying in China because they won't publicize the horrible thing, don't. Do what you want.
cat_prophecy@reddit
It standard to reason that there are only a handful of reasons they would not release the final report. Chief among them that the results of it would be embarrassing to the Chinese government and/or the airline which is state owned.
If it was an issue with aircraft safety, they would release the report to stop the same thing from happening on other aircraft.
s0ul_invictus@reddit
"It stands to reason that there are only a handful of reasons" lol
"If it was an issue with safety" Dude, they said it wasn't, Boeing said it wasn't, nobody is saying that it was.
So being that we KNOW there was no issue with the aircraft, what purpose does releasing the CVR actually serve, other than to embarrass the Chinese gov't?
persephonepeete@reddit
Stop defending that shit. China isn’t worried about being embarrassed. They are worried about looking weak in a world where nobody gives a fuck that they consider themselves strong. Which is a pretty shite excuse considering hundreds of people burned on a damn mountain.
The world is bigger than China. I’m sorry to be the one to tell you that. The aviation industry is built on group cooperation so that all citizens and staff everywhere can feel confident boarding a flight with professionals. When that professional decides to murder people we need every second of information leading up to that choice to learn from it and prevent it from happening again.
China doesn’t want people to know suicide exists for some dumb ass reason. That tamp down on information isn’t stopping said idea in china… it just means we don’t hear bout them. Al those people are still dead and we are ALL still at risk from someone pulling this shit again because china cares what the west thinks not realizing that people treat suicidal ppl over here and not throw them into a secret place to avoid some dumb ass version of shame. We the west never cared. Maybe treat your citizens better.
s0ul_invictus@reddit
And yet the Chinese said there was no problem with the aircraft, the flight, ATC, nothing, so everyone knows what happened. There is no ambiguity. The US delegation was allowed unlimited access to the FDR and CVR. Nothing was kept hidden. They humbly asked that we not publish the one horrible thing. And we granted them that. Thats it.
You see, the reason I'm defending this is very simple - China defended our airplane. They did not try to say it was our airplane's fault in any way. So in return, we will give them this grace. They did what we wanted and took FULL blame, saving our airplane's rep and our company's money, right after the 737 MAX fiasco.
So I will defend them in this specific situation forever. I'll be here next year, the year after, and 20 years from now. Every fucking time this comes up, I'll be right here holding the line, fighting the lies and misconceptions, and reminding everybody of China's total cooperation with our delegation when we needed to get over there and shut down the "it's every single Boeing!" hysteria in the media threatening to destroy our company.
Do you understand now? "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours". Nothing more, nothing less.
Academic_Chance3278@reddit
Because just like the Germanwings crash or Asiana SF crash, non mechanical issue NTSB reports can help remedy non mechanical safety issues such as mental health treatment for pilots, crew procedures, pilot/co pilot dynamic training. It’s about learning and improving, can’t do that if you hide everything and pretend everything is okay. It’s a hard concept coming from authoritarian cultures, that any criticism is an attack, it’s not. Sometimes to learn you need to be critical.
s0ul_invictus@reddit
There was no crew procedure or pilot/copilot training issue. He drove it into the ground. They have made that clear. So we know it was a mental health problem, we know it was s--cide. Tell me specifically, what more can we learn from the CVR than what we already know?
Academic_Chance3278@reddit
Crew procedure, ie how was one able to crash the plane when all western countries changed operating procedure following Germanwings that in the event of a pilot needing to leave the cockpit in a 2 man flight crew, another member of the crew has to be in the cockpit until he returns. Was the pilot incapacitated by the copilot with a weapon to take control of the flight, then it would be an airport security procedure that needs to be looked into. Was flight schedule and tempo a cause in mental degradation of the pilot, do they need to change rostering, because there might be a chance he stated his reasons for said event knowing the CVR would record it. The list can go on and on forever to help other airlines to look and change their own SOPs to help mitigate future events. It’s very basic.
TomChai@reddit
There’s no other way to make the Chinese government budge, that’s why I propose to force them to open up.
AbnormallyBendPenis@reddit
Releasing the report means admitting China is not a perfectly healthy and hormonic society under the leadership of Xi lol
s0ul_invictus@reddit
And there it is, the desire to publicize the CVR has nothing at all to do with aviation safety and everything to do with humiliating China.
SugarBeefs@reddit
Why are you so terribly offended on behalf of the Chinese government lol
s0ul_invictus@reddit
Because they didn't POO on my aircraft. They allowed our people to investigate everything to our satisfaction, so that we could assure our shareholders, operators, and the general public that the aircraft was in no way at fault or in need of any additional investigation whatsoever and safe to continue operation. It saved us a TON of money, it was the right call, and I appreciate it. They didn't have to do that. They could've grounded the fleet and kicked off MAX 2.0, but they did what was right instead.
SugarBeefs@reddit
From the criticism I've read it seems there's two sides of this. The part that you're describing, which they did well and if I take your word for it, arguably went above and beyond what they needed to do.
But then there's another part where they've been rather tight-lipped about the human factors that contributed to or outright caused the crash, in stark contrast with how the Germanwings incident was handled for example.
Both things can be true simultaneously, no?
AbnormallyBendPenis@reddit
This is some next level 吸吸屁舔洗 lool
kyrsjo@reddit
If keeping it secret is necessary for China not to be embarrassed, that's pretty embarrassing on its own.
TomChai@reddit
Is there a problem?
Being able to withhold reports is fundamentally against aviation safety, the government deserves to be humiliated if they did it.
s0ul_invictus@reddit
Is there? The FAA, NTSB, Boeing, and CFM were invited and welcomed in China as part of the investigation. The flight data recorders were sent to Washington D.C.
The CVR was analyzed in Beijing and the US was made aware of the contents. We have chosen to respect China's wishes to hold this in confidence, because China was very professional and transparent with us, and did not lie about anything.
Every possibility, other than the plane being deliberately crashed, was ruled publicly out in the interim report.
China has withheld ONLY 2 Things, and ONLY from the public:
A final public report stating that the plane was intentionally crashed
Allowing the horrible things in the CVR to be publicized
This is not a matter of aviation safety. They have been very transparent here, all things considered. The US needed to know what happened, and China, to their credit, made sure we got the answer. We will respect their wishes concerning the 2 Things. And thats it. Everything else has been made PUBLIC.
TomChai@reddit
Yeah right, transparent to you but not to its own people, when it’s not your problem you don’t care, typical hypocrite Americans.
s0ul_invictus@reddit
No, I do care. There was a time when China would have shared NOTHING. But certainly you must agree that this time they shared a lot, probably more than they ever have. Does that really count for nothing? I want to see safe aviation in China, in every country. And when China does things that contribute to that, even if not perfectly, I want them to know they made the right decision.
Would you have us push them, and lose ALL access and cooperation?
Or respect their wishes, so US investigators can still take part and analyze FDRs?
Which one will contribute more to aviation safety?
TomChai@reddit
There’s also a time when they shared EVERYTHING, for example in the early 2020s. The backwards trend is the most concerning.
Either way, it’s China losing credibility to its own people, not cooperating only further ruins it for the government.
TomChai@reddit
Because the government isn’t fulfilling its obligations to publish the report.
badthingtw1ce@reddit
The cctv footage was terrifying, no chance it wasn't intentional
ballimi@reddit
How can you even tell from that footage
badthingtw1ce@reddit
Iirc, china was one of the earliest to ban 737Maxes so we know they don't play about build and manufacture issues. But the way there was no follow up, it's clear that they don't want to tarnish the reputation of the airline and mental health is a stigmatised topic, hence they did not want to talk about it
SecurelyObscure@reddit
If they "didn't play" about safety they would have released a report saying exactly what the root cause was. Hiding the outcome because of political reasons is "playing."
Demerlis@reddit
hiding the outcome is cultural and says as much as saying it out loud. its playing a different game, not the safety game.
SecurelyObscure@reddit
If safety is important to you except when it offends your sensibilities, then safety isn't important to you.
Demerlis@reddit
where is the actionable outcome? if there is nothing to do then the report is pointless.
SecurelyObscure@reddit
Are you really trying to say that leaving the conclusion to inference is as good as saying directly what the root cause is? That's ridiculous.
Demerlis@reddit
no. but they are confirming there is no relevant information to share regarding the safety of the aircraft.
SecurelyObscure@reddit
It's not up to the investigating authority to decide what is "relevant" in countries that actually care about safety.
And action can be taken to prevent this situation. The FAA implemented a rule that there are never fewer than 2 people in the cockpit at a time, for instance. And general awareness of the mental health of pilots can lead to more successful screening and treatment prior to an incident.
Bluemikami@reddit
That aircraft wasnt even a max
badthingtw1ce@reddit
Read my other comment.
freshgeardude@reddit
Ehh. Them grounding the max first was also a political decision. When they did it first, they caused the rest of the world to follow them not the US.
StartersOrders@reddit
The incident aircraft was an NG, not a MAX.
badthingtw1ce@reddit
I know. I am just pointing out that if it was a manufacturer defect, they would have banned the NG series as quickly as they did with the MAXs
jeff3rd@reddit
I mean in the video the plane literally nose dived at a 90 degree angle, it’s not natural
Charlie3PO@reddit
It wasn't a 90 degree angle. It was in a steep bank and the camera angle was in line with the flight path, giving the illusion of no horizontal movement. ADSB showed in the final moments it had a huge horizontal ground speed (away from the camera) as well as a high rate of descent.
Even if it was 90 degrees, that doesn't mean it was deliberate. There have been heaps of accidental plane crashes where the aircraft went in at close to 90 degrees due to some sort of loss of control.
While I agree with basically the entire industry that this was indeed intentional, that conclusion is not, and cannot be based on a tiny video.
PozhanPop@reddit
Great defense.
Charlie3PO@reddit
Defense of what? I agree it's intentional, but you can't tell that from literally 1 second of grainy video. You need a lot more info than that.
ballimi@reddit
Can that never happen for other reasons? Hydraulic getting stuck, pilot getting heart attack and pushing the yoke forward, ...
I know that's not what happened in this case, but you can't make that conclusion from just this video.
jeff3rd@reddit
It could be, but China leaving investigators in the dark didn't help the matter tbh, and there hasn't been another incident quite like this so we can be certain to a degree.
randyzmzzzz@reddit
If it’s due to other reasons they would have released the investigation result.
Quirky_Judge_6932@reddit
Very intentional. The plane would have naturally nosed up at those speeds, even with max nose down trim. It was forced down.
NovitaProxima@reddit
do you have a link?
badthingtw1ce@reddit
https://youtube.com/shorts/ytLc4_N-Wzo?si=C6Nmf_mIXmzu2aNm
Big-Wolverine2437@reddit
Insiders already knew it was a pilot suicide. However, the government authorities, considering that publicizing the incident would lead to widespread distrust of China's state-owned airlines (there is no doubt that the airlines were largely negligent in understanding the pilots' mental state) and further economic losses, chose the shameful option of secrecy.
bloregirl1982@reddit
This was pilot suicide, report was never published...
Quirky_Judge_6932@reddit
It absolutely was a suicide.
Katana_DV20@reddit
Makes me really angry when some countries dont share findings with the international aviation community. It is what makes the industry recognize problems and take action.
Terrible, the video is haunting and reminds me of the equally horrific Germanwings mass murder.
sapsnap@reddit
Damn -30,000 FPM
Dangerous_Still_9586@reddit
Who were the pilots? Any infornation?
06035@reddit
“If I’m in the cockpit, I must be OK..”
Eveready116@reddit
Huh… would’ja look at that… plane nosedives from 29,000ft in near vertical attitude and what do we see in the photos… Huge sections of aircraft debris… large portion of wings…
Air plane supposedly hits Pentagon… and airplane supposedly crashes in PA… no wreckage consistent with a commercial air liner crash.
Fuck outta here with that bullshit.
aviation-ModTeam@reddit
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DanTMWTMP@reddit
Often I wonder if it’s better if one requirement of accessing the internet is a competency test or something..
Patentlyy@reddit
Hey mate, you forgot the face paint for your costume 🤡
Zhou_Z_2025@reddit
The investigation into this accident has not been made public untill now. This is a response received by an individual/organization after requesting its release from the Civil Aviation Administration of China. I used AI translation.
Reply to Application for Government Information Disclosure
Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC)
Regarding your application for the disclosure of the "Progress Report on the Investigation of the '3.21' China Eastern Airlines MU5735 Aircraft Flight Accident," the following determination has been made:
Upon demonstration and review, this agency has determined that the disclosure of the requested investigation progress report "may endanger national security and social stability."
Pursuant to the provisions of Article 14 and Article 36, Item (3) of the "Regulations of the People's Republic of China on the Disclosure of Government Information," this agency has decided not to disclose the information.
If you believe this decision infringes upon your lawful rights and interests, you may:
Thank you for your understanding and support of the civil aviation industry.
Department of General Affairs, Civil Aviation Administration of China
May 19, 2025
Weak_Decision6660@reddit
it was a pilot suicide the ccp covers up because it’s a state owned airline
TogaPower@reddit
You mean mass murder
RandomObserver13@reddit
Exactly…it drives me nuts that these events are called “pilot suicide”, I mean it’s not untrue but it de-emphasizes the passengers.
Lost-Actuary-2395@reddit
Murder required intent.
It was only true if somebody was on the plane that he wanted to kill, such as his ex wife or somebody he had arguments with prior the flight.
If he wanted to kill a random group of people over his beliefs then it's terrorism.
If you wanna word play this situation at least do it right, otherwise words will lose its meaning because "everything is murder"
cat_prophecy@reddit
You don't need to have planned to kill a specific person to be guilty of murder.
R4G@reddit
I think you’re confused by the meaning of intent.
He knew his actions will kill victims and he performed those actions. Thats intent.
A good example of lack of intent would be the girls who killed Kim Jong-nam at Kuala Lumpur Airport. They were tricked into believing they were pranking him for a tv show, they had no clue they were exposing him to fatal nerve agent.
If you crash an airliner on purpose, you certainly intend to kill the occupants.
njsullyalex@reddit
If the pilot was trying to kill themselves by crashing the plane then they were aware that would also kill everyone else on board, meaning they intended to kill everyone. That’s murder.
TogaPower@reddit
Ah yes, intentionally crashing an aircraft full of innocent civilians isn’t intent. God, you really wrote a lot to ultimately say nothing meaningful.
Lost-Actuary-2395@reddit
You must be a lawyer.
If the intent was to commit suicide then it wasn't murder.
If the intent was to end all people's lives, then it was murder e.g. 9/11
9/11 wasn't a suicide, it was murder. But this wasn't another 9/11.
jorbeezy@reddit
So murder-suicide does not exist in your world?
Lost-Actuary-2395@reddit
Yes that would be 9/11, unless you want to say this is as bad as 9/11
halisd1@reddit
So it exists then
Lost-Actuary-2395@reddit
In case you haven't noticed.
9/11 was about inflict as much civilian casualty as possible.
This was about suicide, he likely would've done it if nobody was on the plane
halisd1@reddit
We are just guessing now we will never know and doesn’t matter what your assumptions are.
Lost-Actuary-2395@reddit
If the intent was to commit suicide then it wasn't murder.
If the intent was to end all people's lives, then it was murder e.g. 9/11
This wasn't another 9/11.
Newspaper_Acceptable@reddit
-99999 social credit mister. Its very impressive that due to almost full vertical flight nothing left from plane.
ChanceConstant6099@reddit
+99999999 FICO score
salvatore813@reddit
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Dear-Regret-9476@reddit
I just realized when this happened, I barely heard about it at all
No-Duck4828@reddit
I'm not saying it was intentional, I'm just saying that I cannot come up with any other explanation that fits what we know about the path of the plane and the Party's refusal to share the details