Why are Americans so financially literate?
Posted by Ada-Mae@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 1059 comments
My company in Europe got bought out by an American tech giant recently and we've gotten tons of new employees from overseas. I was shocked how much they knew about everything, especially finance and economics. I'm not just talking about the millionares and megacorps. It seems like the average American seems to know a ton about money and economics compared to people here in Europe.
We are much more relaxed and talk non-sense at work, even useless things to "improve" the company are discussed and the bureaucracy was hell. I'm shocked how efficient and fast Americans are at working and making changes. I learned a ton from them and even got into stocks that I was skeptical before. How did finance culture become so huge there?
sics2014@reddit
It seems the importance of budgeting, personal finance, how money works, and investing was drilled into me over the years. So you have to learn it.
Lowbrass2018@reddit
I had to reread the title because I thought OP said illiterate at first lol.
ThatGuyFJ_Official@reddit
yeah i was getting ready to agree
shastaxc@reddit
Yeah I was confused like... We're being complimented for something? How out of the ordinary haha
Jggkyess@reddit
It can read as a compliment or an insult. The title with no context can be an insult as it is assumed Americans have no financial literacy and they were shocked we had financial literacy.
Intelligent_Pop1173@reddit
And it wasn’t even backhanded!!! Usually this would go like “Americans are financially literate THAT MUST BE WHY THEY ARE SO GREEDY ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS MONEY” or something.
hugemessanon@reddit
look we earned the criticism we do get but it is nice when it turns out we maybe do something well lmao
proveam@reddit
I kept waiting for the punchline 😅
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
Same. I was prepared for a very different conversation for the first few seconds.
titianwasp@reddit
So used to them bashing Americans…I didn’t even know what to do with a compliment.
btmg1428@reddit
I tend to treat them the same way as an insult.
Rotten-Roses@reddit
How very california of you
commandercool86@reddit
He probably lives in my state
grassesbecut@reddit
Arizona?
10RobotGangbang@reddit
Could even be Tennessee. They're the #1 transplant here.
grassesbecut@reddit
I was basing my comment off of his flair.
btmg1428@reddit
Show your teeth. 😁
Lego_Train_Mocs@reddit
u/btmg1428 what has happened to Cali. I stopped paying attention when i dug into the P65 warnings
btmg1428@reddit
It's a shadow of its former self. Until I can find decent employment outside this state, remote or otherwise, I'm stuck here.
Lego_Train_Mocs@reddit
could you have a job in Cali but live out of state and just collect the higher pay?
btmg1428@reddit
I'd have to live in a border town for that to work, I imagine.
Lego_Train_Mocs@reddit
ah, i see. would there be any benefit from it that's substancial or no
btmg1428@reddit
I doubt it. Would probably make filing taxes a bit more complicated than what I'm used to.
Gabbiani@reddit
But for real why the fuck is it 105 right now?!?
(Rhetorical question- I know the answer and I’m sad)
triforce_of_wisdom@reddit
Oregon Checking in. Same dude, same.
samosamancer@reddit
You’re so articulate for an American!
/s
juanzy@reddit
Usually bashing Americans because something is different, not necessarily bad. Especially financially.
I got dogpiled once for saying HSAs/FSAs are actually a good thing to come out of our system.
elijahjane@reddit
I’ve heard so many times that FSAs are a scam because if people don’t use it all on needs, then they blow it on WHATEVER, whether they need the stuff or not, so they don’t lose it. I’ve definitely been in that boat multiple years, but in the years I declare less, I end up needing a LOT more. It’s a frustrating cycle.
I still use an FSA every year, but i think that they’d be better if we could “cash out” whatever is left and pay taxes on that cash out OR roll over an unlimited amount at the end of the year. That would make the account a true benefit instead of a cash grab for overpriced FSA stores.
juanzy@reddit
That’s what an HSA is- the money in it is yours. The trade off is a FSA is fully funded Jan 1, an HSA is funded as you go.
elijahjane@reddit
Yeah, but some insurance plans don’t allow you to have an HSA, explicitly.
Depart_Into_Eternity@reddit
Ikr. The propaganda is getting out of hand.
Traditional-Ad-8737@reddit
Hah, I read illiterate too. I don’t know about other people, but my dad taught me at a young age about money and I never got an allowance per se, I had to do basic things for free (clean room, walk the dog) then earned extra money (mow law, fold laundry, iron shirts etc). I talk about how much things cost with my kids in general terms- eating out, what a mortgage is, what a 401k etc so it sounds familiar. It’s a start.
Copper-Alchemist@reddit
Yup! I am bewildered and I just don't know what to do.
King_GGthe1st@reddit
sameeeee
evilgenius12358@reddit
It does go both ways. Sadly, many Americans gave up before they even started down the road of financial independence.
Megalocerus@reddit
I imagine a crew sent to the UK as part of a tech venture are probably more into investing than the person delivering my Amazon order.
juanzy@reddit
Or the ultra-defeatist Redditors who can't accept that some people will make good money in a career job. Or the other side of this site with people who call you a failure if you're not saving 80% of your income and spending less than $1/hr on entertainment (yes, I've actually been told that should be a goal here).
Megalocerus@reddit
I've seen those recommendations. We were substantial savers, but we still did things like have kids, educate them, buy cars, buy houses, take vacations, and generally do some fun things. No wonder people burn out.
hugemessanon@reddit
yeah this is definitely a select group of people
Silent-Art4378@reddit
This☝️. I am a senior manager in a tech company and find, in general, most of the people I run into (employees and general population) are woefully financially illiterate. The team that moves in post acquisition is NOT representative of Americans in general, they are experts in finance and operations.
MyDisneyExperience@reddit
Yeah I had to explain to my coworkers (after a company-wide settlement resulted in everyone getting a bunch of various 1099s) you can’t just pick and choose which tax forms to file 🤪🤪🤪
GrassCandle@reddit
Very few Europeans take the time to become financially literate because they don’t have to. Their basic needs are met by the state, and they are somewhat dependent. Even upper middle class Europeans don’t bother saving for things like retirement.
Americans are required to be more self reliant, and thus more financially literate.
evilgenius12358@reddit
They also reap the rewards because they are invested. Freedom carries risk AND reward.
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
Except Europeans actually have to, if you look at the numbers. Part of it is financial literacy gets less of a payoff in Europe.
nothinnews@reddit
Plot twist, OP is a European of nobility and can't fathom that a foreigner that works explicitly in that field would have any knowledge at all?
Cinisajoy2@reddit
That would actually be closer to correct.
lemonprincess23@reddit
Same
We might be financially literally but we’re functionally illiterate it seems XD
SolidSouth-00@reddit
Me too!
Anonymouse_9955@reddit
That would have made more sense. I think OP is dealing with a rather unrepresentative sample of Americans.
minicpst@reddit
I love the irony of this comment.
sacrelicio@reddit
Yeah a common criticism we hear is that Americans are really bad with money but I think we just expect near perfection so any deviation from that is seen as a huge problem. When in reality Americans are almost a little too obsessed with money and finances.
BlowFish-w-o-Hootie@reddit
Yeah, Wow, an unusual question that doesn’t ask Why are Americans stupid?
Relating to Europeans, Americans have to be concerned about saving and investing for retirement when Europeans have a fully funded government pension waiting for them at the designated retirement age. The smart Americans, anyway. There are still a bunch who claim that they can never retire because no one is looking out for them.
unlimited_insanity@reddit
I will quibble a bit with your use of the term “the smart Americans.” In order to have money to save and invest, you have to have money first. And there are an awful lot of Americans living in poverty, generational, systemic, and/or bad luck poverty. No amount of good budgeting and financial discipline is going to overcome an income too small to meet basic needs. Yes, there are people who make terrible choices that compound their original problems, but there are plenty of dumb rich people and smart poor people.
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
This is often stated and is utterly untrue. There are very few smart poor people in the U.S. who are not in school. It's a myth.
BlowFish-w-o-Hootie@reddit
I know several families that keep themselves trapped in generational poverty by making bad decisions, refusing to take advantage of public support options, or insisting to maintain their status quo. I was at a family reunion where I saw a bright young girl who had a realistic plan for her future with college scholarships get badgered and talked down to for not staying with her family in their crappy hometown. Her parents didn't need her to stay, but other relatives made her feel like she was abandoning them in their time of need.
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
Sadly, I have seen the "crabs in a bucket" thing before. It's real.
Unable_Ad6406@reddit
Not very many smart poor people without drug dependencies.
fleemfleemfleemfleem@reddit
Not all jobs offer 401ks. About 25% don't have a similar employer sponsored plan. If you're working an hourly job that barely pays for housing it's going to be really hard to set aside anything at all.
zeezle@reddit
Have you actually looked up what the payout is for many of those pensions? It might surprise you how close Social Security is to them and how precarious that 'fully funded' part is there, too. State pensions are also pretty notoriously under severe strain in a lot of countries.
I am only familiar with the German system because I have German relatives but I was actually kind of shocked at how little it paid out considering the stereotypes - it's considerably less on average than Social Security.
But most Americans simply won't tolerate the type of lifestyle that living off of it exclusively affords (a similar size house/apartment to European averages, lack of appliances, lack of AC, etc. - with the caveat that the far milder weather in much of Europe also makes some of those lifestyle differences more tolerable).
ithinkican2202@reddit
Social security would be a lot more attractive and it's current level if Americans didn't have significant healthcare expenses during retirement.
Unable_Ad6406@reddit
False Medicare is free at age 65.
ithinkican2202@reddit
RYouNotEntertained@reddit
Americans have Social Security
ComeSeptember@reddit
And SS pays more than most European pensions.
carlos_the_dwarf_@reddit
Does it? Sincere question.
ComeSeptember@reddit
Yes, it really does. From what I understand, considerably more than at least one European country. The top payout in the UK is less than a third of the top payout in the US. It's nearly 50% more in the US than in Germany. I'm sure there are plenty more I could list.
carlos_the_dwarf_@reddit
That’s wild. I always assumed euro pensions were more generous. Though I wonder about PPP adjustments and so on.
ComeSeptember@reddit
Adjusting for PPP makes US SS almost 4x the value of a UK pension.
carlos_the_dwarf_@reddit
No shit? Hit me with a source?
ComeSeptember@reddit
There are tons like this, all giving basically the same exact result. https://aigenerator.com/ppp-calculator/united-kingdom
It's kind of not a secret that the US has extremely high living standards compared to the vast majority of the rest of the world. People like to harp on the lack of a strong social safety net, but it's balanced out and more by the extreme degree of opportunity. Unsurprisingly, it's not actually as simple as, "America bad, Europe good."
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
European pensions aren't fully funded. In fact, they have a huge cliff coming up where a lot of them aren't going to get the pensions they were promised. It's just that most of them don't realize that.
The government's do and are trying to dial it back, hence the riots in France.
BlowFish-w-o-Hootie@reddit
It sounds like Europeans need some personal financial planning and investment education.
Don't they teach that in European schools? /s. ... to make for all the "Americans are stupid" posts.
PeanutButterToast4me@reddit
Sink or swim mofos
lyndseymariee@reddit
Probably because we have less social safety nets in the US so we have to know how to budget and/or save money or else we could be seriously screwed.
abjectadvect@reddit
plus things like our tax returns; many other places send you a one page form because the government has precalculated all your taxes.
ours doesn't, so everyone has to become a tax expert on top of everything else we do
FMLwtfDoID@reddit
Ours does, actually. The IRS knows. The fact that our government allows legal bribery- ahem, lobbying, is the reason why we have to pay to figure out the sum of what we owe, even though they already have that information. We just need to legally verify it for them, via our tax forms. Hence TurboTax and Intuit spending millions (billions?) on advertising each Feb/mar/April to get us to pay for a middle man to do absolutely nothing.
Always use FreeTaxUSA for a free federal return. State is minimal as well, I’ve never paid more than $20 for state tax return with FreeTaxUSA
macoafi@reddit
They don’t have all the info though. They don’t know you donated 200 books to the library and half your wardrobe when you downsized to move or that you made $700 on your garage sale or that you give your church $200/mo.
Sir_Auron@reddit
Credits for childcare expenses is another big one.
FAx32@reddit
Agreed. And this is where most of the cheating takes place. It isn't that people are straight up lying and inputting wrong numbers from W2s, K1s or 1099s, they are lying about the tax deductible expenses that are not tracked at all.
SomeLameSysAdmin@reddit
yeah, but that hasnt realy been a thing in years. I stopped itemizing when the standard deductible went to 5 figures. 16k/32k single/married. It really takes big expenses and losses to beat that amount.
FAx32@reddit
Right, now only people with top 10% incomes can cheat (I’m a doctor and I still itemize).
Maleficent-Box4114@reddit
Did you get paid for this advertisement?
FMLwtfDoID@reddit
From a free tax service?
abjectadvect@reddit
I know, I just didn't want to type it all out x) Intuit pours lobbying money into it
Electrical_Welder205@reddit
That gives you a chance to claim more deductions than the government would on your behalf, though.
abjectadvect@reddit
yes that's the propaganda Intuit (owner of turbotax) spends quite a lot of money to disseminate
many deductions could be calculated automatically by various institutions like banks and charities reporting to the govt, which for most things they already do. they already have your charitable contributions, your mortgage payments, your stock sales, your student loan interest payments, your healthcare status, your children and spousal status, your status as a veteran, your disability benefits, state taxes, and your contributions to registered charitable organizations. t
they're only missing things like small cash donations, which are usually negligible, because anything large must be reported
we could have a simpler and fairer tax system without tons of complexity and loopholes. we choose not to
Electrical_Welder205@reddit
They don't have your out-of-pocket health care expenses.
abjectadvect@reddit
most countries solve the first thing by not making people pay for healthcare in the first place
(rather than our convoluted system of us floating the bill as a loan to the government until paid back in tax deductions, except you only can get those deductions if you're rich enough that you'd be paying an amount in taxes equal or greater than your medical expenses in the first place)
but we could also just require doctors and pharmacies to report our out of pocket to the irs anyway
business expenses do need to be reported yes, business owners will always have to do a bit more work
UnderaZiaSun@reddit
That’s my thought. If you want to retire comfortably, you have to be financially literate since you likely don’t have a pension
RYouNotEntertained@reddit
Is Social Security significantly less generous than whatever public pension program you’re thinking of?
LegitGingerDude@reddit
I think a lot of younger Americans are starting to assume that they aren’t going to get social security at this rate
Hylianhero71@reddit
Every single generation since the inception of Social Security has said they would be the ones who wouldn't get it by the time they’re old.
WrongJohnSilver@reddit
I'm Gen X, and even in my 20s I assumed I wouldn't get Social Security. I'd pay into it for my entire life, and when it became time for me to retire, it would be turned off. The Boomers don't need it any more, so who does, right?
Still looking pretty likely at this point.
AnotherGeek42@reddit
They've kicked the retirement age down the road a few times already.
CrazyAstronomer2@reddit
That’s just ridiculous
UnderaZiaSun@reddit
Yeah, Social Security was never meant to fully fund anyone’s retirement. It’s a safety net to provide a minimum amount to keep someone from becoming destitute.
RYouNotEntertained@reddit
So yes, it’s let’s generous? How are you determining this?
StraightEvidence820@reddit
Not sure which one you are asking to compare to. UK full pension is 12,500 GBP per year in 2026. I think the median Social security payment is higher.
AnotherGeek42@reddit
SSA says a little more than $24k annually for median payment, but now add medical costs... England has more social safety nets so the pure single income comparison does not reflect the situation.
abjectadvect@reddit
what are you talking about
RYouNotEntertained@reddit
Do you actually not understand the words I said?
Bosenberryblue04@reddit
Plus Americans don't have the 6 weeks of vacation, so they're busy hustling hoping to be able to retire a bit earlier to finally have time to do all the things that average European has 6 weeks a year to fit in.
AnotherGeek42@reddit
Like go to the doctor.
ImaginaryNoise79@reddit
I'm smart, experienced, and willing to work. But I'm bad with finances and bad at the job search process (in both cases it's related to a disability), so I'm in deep trouble right now.
bambooback@reddit
Start now. You have ChatGPT - literally ask the dumbest questions you have, and it’ll sort you out with no judgment. Then you know what to look for.
LiqdPT@reddit
This is what happens in a country with realitively few (compared to the Europeans we're talking about) dmsafety nets. Americans have to save for their own retirement, plan for unexpected bills, etc.
eazolan@reddit
What a ridiculous take. You don't need "A lot" of social safety nets when the ones you have work.
People get good at finance, when there's rewards for being good at finance.
A_Fartist@reddit
Your comment confuses me. It sounds like you’re saying the same thing but prefacing it with that it’s ridiculous. From my viewpoint: They’re say you have to learn less about finance with social safety nets. You say people get good at finance because there’s a reward (living well). So it looks to me like you’re fighting about who gets fucked by what side of the double ended dildo.
eazolan@reddit
The person I was replying to thinks the answer is "MORE SAFTETY NETS".
My point is building more not only a waste of time, but a distraction. We have solid safety nets to the point the entire world is scamming us and getting checks from them.
A_Fartist@reddit
Except they didn’t say that was the solution. They said this (needing to fend for yourself) is what happens in a country with less safety nets which is objectively true, a fact that could easily be used as a jumping off point for a discussion about if it should or shouldn’t be that way, but they didn’t make a moral judgement on the fact. They just stated it. If you find stating an objectively true fact ridiculous you might want to take a look at what information you’ve used to form your opinions. Think of someone looking into this from an outside POV: “Dogs’ fur gets dirty sometimes” “that’s ridiculous, they’re mammals! Mammals don’t need scales because fur works fine!”
eazolan@reddit
You don't have to explicitly state it. It's implicit in the statement, and your comment shows why it's a red herring.
"This is what happens in a country with realitively few (compared to the Europeans we're talking about) dmsafety nets. "
So the way to fix it is more safety nets. He didn't say a word about the quality or impact of the existing safety nets, just that the US has less. And therefor the answer is to have more.
>If you find stating an objectively true fact ridiculous you might want to take a look at what information you’ve used to form your opinions.
Or you could wait for me to respond before leaping to the conclusion that I'm ignorant.
A_Fartist@reddit
You’re saying the way to fix it is more safety nets, they may believe that as well but they didn’t write that. They’re commenting on why Americans are more financially literate. Context matters. Had we been talking about how to fix the US the context would have been one where your response, while still aggressive and insulting, would have been valid. Why does America play world police? Because this is what it’s like when you have, by far, the world’s largest and most well funded military. That doesn’t mean that we should or shouldn’t, it means we do.
Also what response did you want me to wait for? I didn’t ask you a question. I told you how it looked to me and you showed your ignorance in response to that.
eazolan@reddit
>You’re saying the way to fix it is more safety nets..."
"My point is building more not only a waste of time, but a distraction. We have solid safety nets to the point the entire world is scamming us and getting checks from them."
If you're not going to bother reading what I'm writing, I think we're done here. Good day sir.
SnooCompliments6210@reddit
We have much better social safety nets for the aged than do Europeans. Way, way better.
coffeecircus@reddit
OP should maybe be asking why American tech employees they have interacted with are financially literate. Given the many ads for insolvency, credit card or crypto schemes, that I see on TV and media, it seems to me the average American is struggling with debt and finances.
In the tech bubble, yes I would say people are more well paid and more financially literate, and make better long term planning. r/fire, r/fatfire, etc are some good places to start
bubblegumdavid@reddit
Yeah I’m glad to see this here. I think Reddit’s demographics and OP’s experience are influenced very much by these answers because a huge amount of Americans, most even, are not in this spot.
Tech people here are paid well and often get stock options as a supplement to that. And that is their “get rich quick” way out if they get lucky or choose the right companies to work at, so most try to learn how it works and quickly.
BUT I work with a wider range of backgrounds, and a staggering amount of Americans do NOT have a clue how this shit works, even though we have no safety nets and need to, and it screws them over repeatedly throughout their lives.
For many, the basics of debt, finance, stocks or even balancing a budget are not covered in school, and if they are it is not often done in a way that reflects the modern world. We all learn our own way or we sink. And a LOT of Americans sink.
rtd131@reddit
You're 100% right. The average American has credit card debt, car loans and barely anything saved for retirement.
nightjarre@reddit
It's drilled into us because it's necessary to survive in the US. We have few social safety nets, our retirement only exists if we invest right. Other countries have the government telling them the amount of taxes to pay whereas we're left to figure it out ourselves
kartoffel_engr@reddit
Don’t blow the tax return thing out of the water. The standard tax return is incredibly simple to do.
nightjarre@reddit
I work in finance, all of this stuff and anything related to investments is incredibly simple for me to do. But I understand that is not at all true for the average American.
And our government actively allows lobbying from tax filing companies to keep the process as murky as possible.
kartoffel_engr@reddit
I’m just a simple engineer, but TurboTax just walks you through each step, does it not?
I’d think that the folks that are “tax illiterate” probably don’t have to worry much about anything outside a standard deduction. Biggest help would be around optimizing their W4.
UglyInThMorning@reddit
I just use freetaxusa. It only charges like fifteen bucks for my state and my federal is free. People really overstate how complicated taxes are.
masedizzle@reddit
I own a house, make donations, get W2 income and own an S-Corp. I'm sure I could figure it out but the time it would take me is not worth the money savings plus the risk I mess it up
nightjarre@reddit
It's easy if you just take the standard deduction. I've never heard anyone who itemizes say it's not complicated
ComeSeptember@reddit
I itemize and spend about 30 minutes doing my taxes. The free software asks all the questions, I just load in all the respective tax forms. Easy-peasy.
RockShrimp@reddit
we did until we got IRAs and the questions in H&R Block in no way match the way the forms talk about stuff.
ComeSeptember@reddit
I've used Cash App Taxes for several years now. Haven't had any issues, and it's still completely free to use.
ProfessionalConfuser@reddit
Sadly, itemizing is difficult these days unless you have huge medical expenses, or give thousands to charities.
WrongJohnSilver@reddit
I itemize. But that's only started again this year after the SALT limitation expired. It's been helpful for managing Schedule B returns.
jfchops3@reddit
Or you have a new mortgage since 2022
icyDinosaur@reddit
I do really love the irony of something being called *free*taxusa costing money (seems like money that's worth spending though, we also have to do our own tax returns in Switzerland and I fucking hate it. Mine are also never easy because of my living situation being a bit complex)
Gustav55@reddit
And TurboTax is extremely expensive, they wanted like 260 bucks for my dad to file, he's retired and only has his pension for income.
We used free tax and it only cost 15 bucks to file state, federal was free.
And it was basically the same process it even had the option to upload a pdf of last year's taxes to fill out some of the forms.
nightjarre@reddit
Unfortunately there are a ton of people who qualify for the free version of TurboTax and other filing software but don't even know they can get it done for free bc of how convoluted these companies have made the process.
Yes there are tools that walk you through step by step, but you often have to look at student loans, savings accounts, childcare, calc your side gigs/any other source of income, mortgage, disability, debt or medical expenses (I feel like these are all fairly common) so people have to start juggling multiple documents and get exposed to a lot of technical jargon. The standard deduction isn't always the best choice and to determine if it is you have to do some legwork
To top it all off there is a lot of anxiety around the entire process bc the IRS is seen as a boogie man. Tax rules change each year too.
kartoffel_engr@reddit
The internet exists. I feel there really isn’t an excuse not to learn. I’ve been filing taxes for 18yrs. Single, married, living in one state without income tax while working in one that does, two kids, home purchase, vehicles.
I went to a reputable tax accountant once because I felt like I might be missing something. Dude got the same number I did on TurboTax and I paid twice as much for it. Never again.
MyDisneyExperience@reddit
To be fair I was literally an Intuit vendor until a couple weeks ago and I had no idea they launched a FreeTaxUSA competitor 🥴
kartoffel_engr@reddit
Drank too much of the Kool-Aid 🤣
UglyInThMorning@reddit
Out of proportion. Out of the water means "blows it away".
kartoffel_engr@reddit
I SAID WHAT I SAID!
;)
ijuinkun@reddit
It’s simple if you have no income other than wages/salary, and if you are not itemizing deductions.
kartoffel_engr@reddit
Standard deduction for 2025 is quite high. About 10% of people filing taxes itemize.
Anonymouse_9955@reddit
Not for “gig workers” who have to file as self-employed business owners.
SkyerKayJay1958@reddit
Yep we are 100% DYI to survive
Wild-Sky-4807@reddit
I came here to say this. Yes, it's good that we know these things, but the reason is not. Things we can be pretty unforgiving.
For example, the college where I work is doing mass layoffs. People don't get any notice until the morning it happens. They may or may not get severance. They will get unemployment for 6 months, and then they are just on their own. People overseas need to remember that we get our health insurance from work.
InitiatePenguin@reddit
They will get unemployment, if they apply for it.
And I think that hits the same thing OP is talking about. If you don't get good navigating our systems, it'll either eat you alive, or you'll be left on the side.
NotherOneRedditor@reddit
And it will be half their salary at best.
myname_1s_mud@reddit
Lol shut up. We just answer questions on turbo tax and it figures it out. And no one is desperately learning how to day trade because they depend on it for retirement. Most of us are invested through our 401k and have no idea where that money is. If youre learning to day trade its because you have extra money and dream of being rich
nightjarre@reddit
It's pretty much proven you can't day trade yourself to retirement, or any profit at all lol. Idk why you're bringing up day trading, it's not some hallmark of financial literacy
myname_1s_mud@reddit
Because if youre not a day trader you probably don't have your dinner on the pulse of the stock market. Most Americans have a 401k and they dont know how it's invested like i said, or an ira, and they'll have some idea. People definitely arent learning all about the stock market because their company doesn't have a pension.
d_ippy@reddit
I am my own safety net
nightjarre@reddit
If you can provide for yourself by working at an advanced age, good for you
Crochet_Corgi@reddit
This.
Upset-Government-856@reddit
Survivors bias. If you're not great with money and you or someone you know gets seriously sick, your destitute, unable to have gone to collage, or ... worse.
PlannedSkinniness@reddit
I passed macro by doing a really good job remembering those formulas and derivatives. Could I use it in a conversation to show my knowledge of macroeconomic trends and happenings? I wouldn’t dare try.
letg06@reddit
Dude, I got my degree in econ, and even at that point you're basically able to just tell when someone is blowing it out their ass.
You don't really understand anything I think till grad school and econometrics.
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
I disagree. Basic first-year econ principles tell you an enormous amount about the world if you apply them.
WilcoHistBuff@reddit
Or actually working on the financial/sourcing/marketing/cost accounting side of a real economy business where economic realities are shoved in your face
CartographerRough600@reddit
Listen, I passed grad-level econometrics and still don't understand anything. Passing the buck on to those who mastered matrix algebra and got their PhDs.
PlannedSkinniness@reddit
Happy to report I made my comment despite have a masters in Econ.
3catlove@reddit
I took macro and micro economics and did well in them both but I don’t remember anything. It’s been 32 years though. Also took stats, business stats and accounting. Promptly changed my major after business stats, although I did pass, but barely.
kaimcdragonfist@reddit
At this point I can only assume I passed macro because my professor wanted to get rid of me because I don’t remember crap from that class. Same with micro tbh
Vegetable_Sea_5479@reddit
100%
RockStar5132@reddit
Yeah none of those were drilled into me. I always got “why did you buy those silly ass pokemon cards?”. Bruh I was 10 lol
PeanutButterToast4me@reddit
Well it's sink or swim here.
littIestshark@reddit
When your health and the health of your family is tied to your personal finances, you gotta get knowledgeable.
pokematic@reddit
Thanks for pointing that out, it's quite refreshing to have something other than "hur dur why Americans don't care about this thing I care about, why Americans do thing I think is backwards?"
Responsible_Ask3976@reddit
This was drilled into me by my parents and it worked!
SparkSignals@reddit
I too failed macro-economics twice in college lol. Pretty solid on the personal finance side.
WowsrsBowsrsTrousrs@reddit
Macro was easy. Micro in grad school was goddamn calculus all the time. The funny part was, it was pretty much eactly the same material as "Managerial Accounting," but with different terminology and different reasons for looking at the same things. And the accounting version didn't expect us to do all of our own math past arithmetic. I got thru micro by using psychology😁 Listened to how and what the professor said and used the same style in my papers, made sure that every paper had a citation to a journal from the university where he got his doctorate... so I got A-type grades on papers to balance out the C grades on the math portions of tests. I can do calculous but painfully slowly. And don't get me started on when I took some actuarial science courses and gah! Double integrals! Took me for-ever!
Krusty_Krab_Pussy@reddit
I'm the opposite, I love macroeconomics but I don't love the more micro side of things
AnchoviePopcorn@reddit
I got a C because it was at 8am in the winter and if it was snowing I’d go snowboard instead. It snowed a lot that year.
ucbiker@reddit
I passed it twice and am still shaky at best.
Redbubble89@reddit
Financially we're on our own. Our healthcare is tied to employment. Our retirement mostly is 401k. Anyone with money is in the stockmarket.
COMRADEGENGHISKHAN@reddit
While about 62% of Americans report owning stocks, in India the figure is closer to 9.5%. As someone from India, this really challenges some common assumptions I had about stock market participation in the U.S. Would love if you could share some light on the fact "Anyone with money is in the stock market."
IDrinkSulfuricAcid@reddit
Well an example would be, think about extremely rich people like Elon Musk. Most of his wealth is in the form of TSLA shares, not actual cash in his bank account. Rich people can also use their shares as collateral for loans
ThatTurkOfShiraz@reddit
I think this is a big one. We don’t really have pensions anymore so if you ever have to retire you’ll have to make some level of investment decisions and have at least some knowledge of the stock market. If you screw this up you work till you die and/or live in poverty. You also have to do your own taxes but if you don’t calculate the same number the government calculates you get screwed. You have to be at least basically financial literate in the US not to get screwed.
Squindig@reddit
Social Security is the same as a European pension
0x706c617921@reddit
I wish I could opt out of Social Security entirely cuz when I retire there isn’t even a guarantee that they put their hands up and say that “we can’t pay you back the dues we owe you that you paid into for your whole career”.
Furthermore, there is evidence that shows that if one invests that SSA money on their own, they will get superior returns.
Trick-Friendship-739@reddit
That last bit doesn’t surprise me. Most people should be millionaires on SS alone if it were done with mutual funds as opposed to the current ponzi scheme
0x706c617921@reddit
💯
RCM19@reddit
Social security has been incredibly successful at keeping older people out of poverty. Allowing people to opt out would be disastrous and the fixes for its problems aren't THAT complicated, it just gets more painful the longer the can is kicked down the road. Raising the cap on SS tax income would help tremendously, though I think it's too late for that to fix the issue entirely.
When people say social security is in trouble, they're talking about the trust fund, which congress could just decide to fund at any time. The base program, which is like 80% of the payments you'll receive in retirement, is something the government HAS to fund.
Put another way, if the US government literally can't fund social security at statutory levels, we very likely have bigger problems (national/societal collapse) that the stock market and private industry would not survive.
lemonprincess23@reddit
Yeah, the 80% the government has to fund… until the government decides “actually we don’t have to do that lol”
RCM19@reddit
I mean, Congress could repeal a 90 year old act that almost every retiree benefits from, I guess. I'll never bank on the intelligence of those we collectively send to DC. But that's why it's good social security is automatically funded rather than subject to annual budget debates.
lemonprincess23@reddit
Idk if you noticed but the last year of congress has basically been “hey they can’t do that!”
Followed by them doing it anyway and facing no consequences. I have no doubt repealing social security (because they’ll probably just steal it out of taxes anyway) is already being seriously discussed
RCM19@reddit
The last time a major change to social security was discussed, it was W. Bush trying to privatize it right before the 2007 economic meltdown.
Don't get me wrong, I 100% agree conservatives would love to axe the program, but I don't think it's a priority.
PrimaryInjurious@reddit
We'd be so much better off if it had been privatized.
RCM19@reddit
Yeah we could have immediately watched how disastrous that would have been when the great recession hit.
PrimaryInjurious@reddit
What's the S and P now compared to then? 1400 then and 6500 now?
RCM19@reddit
Yeah just screw all those people who were retiring at the time and ask them to wait nearly two decades.
Brilliant plan, not at all a way to funnel public money to the private sector that tax payers have to bail out regularly.
PrimaryInjurious@reddit
I mean we'd likely have a phase out process. Easy enough to accomplish.
just_a_coin_guy@reddit
It has been successful at keeping old people out of poverty, but I don't consider that a good thing. People should suffer for their poor financial planning. I'd rather see someone starve than another person forced to feed them. To me, forcing others to make up for those who are lesser is is a greater evil.
There are other arguments we could make about how the introduction of social security results in people saving less for retirement because they plan to rely on those ss payments resulting in the average person being worse off, or how as an individual I would be better off keeping a fraction of the amount I pay into social security compared to what they will pay out, but none of those addresses the bigger issue that people are being forced to help pay for others.
Honestly, I think the program is one of the worst things to happen to the US. In the last 100years.
RCM19@reddit
Lol. Just stop there.
Rumpus-Time-Is-Over@reddit
It’s not that the government has to fund it, it’s just that the money that continues to come in from current workers after the trust fund is empty will cover -80% of expenses.
Mr_Kittlesworth@reddit
Thank you. The doomerism about social security drives me nuts. It requires some reform, but it’s a perfectly workable model tha has been reformed before (multiple times) and could’ve again
cdazzo1@reddit
Calling out a ponzi scheme for what it is isn't doomerism. It's being responsible.
Also, it's theft. That 12% of my income that goes to SS could fund a comfortable retirement if it were invested how any 401k gets invested. But instead we get these meager returns and it barely covers anything. So now we have to save ANITHER 12% or so just to be comfortable. That's money that is stolen from me.
FMLwtfDoID@reddit
It feels like you skipped the last paragraph of the first reply.
If the economy crashes and the US collapses, the stock market will be one of the first things to show signs.
cdazzo1@reddit
I skipped it because its just so far from the realm of reality I didnt think it was worth mentioning. I also dont think that person knows the first thing about what they are talking about. But if you find it credible I can address it.
Over the past 100 years S&P returns have averaged 10% nominally. Treasury bonds averaged 5-6% over the same period. When you factor in inflation, market returns are going to be more than double, probably close to triple. Compounded through the average ages one is in the labor force and we are talking an order of magnitude difference. There is no way to overstate the absolute fortune being robbed from us. And its being stolen from us in part to artificially reduce the cost of the public debt.
Now if the US government can't fund at statutory levels, it can mean a few different things and national/societal collapse is the least likely. The most likely is that the statutory payroll tax withholding can't meet the statutory obligations. In essence, the bean counters were wrong. And we know that's the most likely because it's already happening. The probability is 100%. It's been happening for a while as the market has provided stellar returns.
0x706c617921@reddit
The problem about state pensions are that they are often built off the assumption of unlimited population growth, lol.
RCM19@reddit
Not really. Economic growth would suffice, if managed correctly. Lol.
0x706c617921@reddit
Unlimited economic growth is impossible too.
RCM19@reddit
Probably. But in a country where we discard far more food than we consume, have the capacity to create far more energy than we use, and ossify far more wealth than we need, there are only artificial boundaries to taking good care of people.
0x706c617921@reddit
Remember - low fertility rates are not an issue if MBA finance bros (who ultimately end up ruling countries) weren’t obsessed with unlimited growth over self sustenance and preservation.
RCM19@reddit
If you want to talk about rapacious capitalism leading folk down bad paths, that's one thing. If you want to fearmonger over misapprehensions regarding social security or resource scarcity or birth rate decline in a country with a growing population, that's a different discussion.
0x706c617921@reddit
If self sufficiency was the norm, we wouldn’t need SSA.
timkost@reddit
So you live in a future where you probably have slightly more money, but share the streets with millions more homeless old people.
trixie6@reddit
People think of social security as some kind of investment - it’s not. It’s an annuity - insurance.
Ebice42@reddit
For every person who would save and invest what they pay into Social Security, there are 10 that would just spend it. And they would be completely screwed.
It's not meant to beat an investment plan, its meant to make sure seniors don't starve.
PrimaryInjurious@reddit
S and P ETF. Not too hard.
mozfustril@reddit
I have a private pension and still have to invest for retirement. It’s definitely nice to have, but isn’t nearly enough to fully finance retirement with just SS.
ImpressiveWalrus7369@reddit
Pensions may be guaranteed (if they don’t totally implode), but 401k can be much larger for relatively acceptable risk. Knowing what I know of pensions, I’d still take a 401k. And honestly, anyone looking to improve their financial situation should be familiar with the stock market and how to invest in it.
Nychthemeronn@reddit
I would argue that the fact that literally everything (including “public” services) is tied to capital, the average American should be much more financially literate than someone from a country with their institutions are built around a public sector that’s financed by taxes.
My thought is that it’s more tied to a lack of quality public education.
auerz@reddit
Pretty sure this is survivorship bias, since you also have a huge portion of the population apparently unable to do basic math about how loans work.
ImmaZoni@reddit
Exactly, it's the first world equivalent of asking "how does x tribe know so much about clean water and safe food sources?"
Survival, it's that simple.
rosievee@reddit
Yeah, this. I grew up poor and I learned fast that if I didn't learn how credit, investing, and budgeting worked, I was going to die poor too. And probably early.
MARSHALCOGBURN999@reddit
Investing and being smart with your money is the best skill ever taught.
YardSardonyx@reddit
This is why. It’s because we have to be.
Bot_No_5@reddit
American individualism implies that you can look out for yourself better than relying on someone else to take care of you. One needs to be aware/ educated of some basic knowledge to achieve this, plus some initiative.
Winter-Warlock8954@reddit
Yep, it's this.
Nyxelestia@reddit
Pretty much this, but a little more nicely than how I was going to phrase it: "survival." America is so thin on social safety nets that we have to have some basic financial literacy in order to stand a chance of not living (or dying) in poverty.
BeesAndNickels@reddit
Because we are poor if we don’t learn it and make good choices for ourselves. Sink or swim babbbbby
remabogi@reddit
In Europe, especially in germany there are more saftey nets. You loose your job? You get help from the state. As well there is a lot protection for workers. In the US you dont have these security levels, hence you must beware yourself and know how to handle finance.
SteelBallWinner@reddit
In America, money is survival. Even 40k a year won't be much in most places. Many people in the US have to choose between rent and food, and not to mention the fact that taxes and healthcare are separate. This means that you have to pay lots of money for medication, dental work, etc. Knowing what is in your bank account is the difference between sleeping in a bed and in a car.
Ill-Safety621@reddit
I learned it cuz I had a certain amount of income coming in and out to make it last. You have to know what you're doing. I think some poor people learn way better.
Fluid_Perspective232@reddit
Money decides everything in this country, we have no choice but to be financially literate.
taylorgrande@reddit
it’s part of our culture to prioritize career and consumerism. it’s takes up our whole life. families and hobbies come second.
hnybun128@reddit
I think it might be the individuals you’ve interacted with. In my personal experience, the overwhelming majority of individuals are not financially literate, regardless of income or education levels.
Source: I’ve worked in finance for 26 years.
Happy-Hour88@reddit
They even do spreadsheets on travel expenses while most Europeans I know at least do not. We also try to look for cheaper options when traveling but no one I know is budgeting as much as Americans on tye road.
DemocracyStrong@reddit
They’re NOT!
Elsoci@reddit
Retarded post of the day. Most Americans don't have 500$ savings in their accounts, but yeah you were so impressed
Elsoci@reddit
35% to 50% Americans don't have 500$ savings in their accounts - What the absolute fuck are you talking about?
Lego_Train_Mocs@reddit
by the time i was 15 i had over 2k in savings and was investing in the stock market to get money. i was terrified of rent prices (still am) and the increasing cost of gas, food, and in general the cost to live. The average paycheck is not proportional to the cost of living, thus forcing you to better manage your income and possibly seek a side hustle or a second job to allow for more comfort or "financial wiggle room".
Sbanner84@reddit
Good question. I’d like to know too. For personal reasons.
capndiln@reddit
If you are poor in the US you dont have healthcare. If you want to be healthy and not die of preventable illness, you need money.
I believe in much of Europe even a poor citizen is guaranteed healthcare.
If we do not understand making money, we or our family will likely suffer worse health.
1_________________11@reddit
If you dont you will fail and no one will help you.
GroundbreakingPast31@reddit
Because our government does not have any genuine social safety nets. They have endless money for war and for militarization of the police, but none ever for the people. If we're going to be able to live in old age, we have to do it ourselves. So, we learn.
PureBlisster@reddit
I didn’t know we were
Ok-Shower-3520@reddit
Probably because individuals handle more financial responsibility loans, healthcare, retirement so learning money becomes necessary. Plus, strong investing culture and easy market access make finance part of everyday conversation, not just for experts.
According-Ant-4705@reddit
Because the government is not for us, it’s against us.
BoxAdept4594@reddit
Financial literacy doesn't matter because you can't budget your way out of abject poverty. Districts are gerrymandered so curriculum varies. They teach financial literacy in white affluent schools.
huffynerfturd@reddit
Most Americans are broke af. Youare interacting with presumably high earners who have investments and the like. Something like 50%+ do not have $1000 in case of an emergency here.
Efficient-Panic3506@reddit
you’re not seeing “americans,” you’re seeing “americans who got picked to go abroad by a tech giant.” that’s a VERY filtered group lol
McKMatt1970@reddit
Americans are financially literate because we have to be. We don’t have the societal safety nets and state sponsored retirement as much of Europe does.
wright007@reddit
America has both some of the most financially savvy people on the planet, and some of the most ignorant. It depends on if you are prey or hunter.
Yutani-commander@reddit
What concepts were the Americans talking about specifically in finance and economics?
Mrikoko@reddit
If only it went beyond financial matters
Just_Tie_7693@reddit
Capitalism
odat247@reddit
By design. Makes us better consumers.
ColdPangolin5355@reddit
A lot of people mentally shutoff a lot of things in their life and that switch is quite sticky.
AdamoMeFecit@reddit
Everything in the States is a hustle. If you don’t take care of your own money, someone else will. So you learn.
Usual-Owl9395@reddit
Employees of an American tech giant, who moved to Europe, are likely far more educated and financially literate than most Americans, who don’t even have a passport
craiglabenz@reddit
Put some respect on our name already - we're illiterate about lots of stuff
WingZombie@reddit
In my opinion, it's a nation of immigrants who wanted something more so there has been a focus on financial literacy. It's also a nation of innovation and entrepenurship and a lot of people look to financial independence. Put on top of that, labor laws that favor employers so job stability can be questionable in certain roles and industries.
Accomplished_Bid3750@reddit
its sink or fuckin swim over here bro
BobbyLicari@reddit
Most of us our highly educated, but the ignorant mouth breathers get all the attention (and glory)
Mousearella@reddit
I’m in Europe but I think the reason is that their college education is better than ours. In Sweden all education including college is very work oriented. We just read about what we need to be able to perform a future job in the US the education is broader.
UpUrs2@reddit
I agree in many ways. The USA has a liberal arts education philosophy so you have to study outside your core major. I think it's that Americans are introduced to financial ideas in school. Plus the TV news often reports on how the market performed that day and what made it change.
Friendly-Cucumber226@reddit
We don’t really have a large social safety net in the U.S., pensions are a thing of the past (for most of us) and our main retirement investment vehicles (the 401k and Roth IRA) are tied to market performance.
Most American companies that are publicly traded are hyper focused on quarterly earnings and it’s really easy for them to improve their margins by shedding workers at the first sign of a downturn.
Many of us live in a state of anxiety over job security and it’s drilled into us that we have to take matters into our own hands financially, particularly when access to affordable healthcare is tied to our employer.
Lastly, we’re a financially aspirational culture. And with U.S. equity markets, financial success is achievable with long term investment.
No-Woodpecker4029@reddit
I think it's a combo of a couple things. 1. We don't have as many social nets/ government programs as probably most of Europe does. 2. We all come from immigrant parents/ grandparents so we were raised watching them work incredibly hard and saving everything. 3. The American mind set is work non stop round the clock to obtain more than the generation before you then retire...so managing finances and minmaxxing life is the American way.
Yodelehhehe@reddit
Just because you hear people that think they sound smart, it doesn’t mean they are. Keep that in mind.
Cannabis_Breeder@reddit
This is a biased sample. A lot of americans are not financially literate, but you don’t get selected to go over seas for a major company if you’re some normal citizen of average intelligence.
nahweha@reddit
It's like this at a cultural level so millionares and oligarchs became something to look up to, and now they have a cult around an orange pedo.
Just_Advertising_657@reddit
You need a doctoratal amount of research to pay taxes here. That's pretty much it.
Quiet-Reflection-621@reddit
I’ll just speak for myself, but I like having money. I’ve experienced what it’s like to not have it and it sucks. My wife is European and I’ve spent a lot of time there. As other people have mentioned, there are less extremes in Europe. Not many poor or rich people (at least in theory, it does seem like most people are on the poorer end at least where I’ve been). In the U.S. your outcome is based more on the choices you make. Not saying it’s right or wrong, but that’s the reality. If I want a future where I can have a dream house, travel often, have hobbies, and have financial security, I need to have the ability to manage and invest my money intelligently.
lollipop984@reddit
capitalism
Special_Loan8725@reddit
Our markets are designed to maximize profits and shareholder value. Europes are designed for stable growth (that gets fucked up by US recklessness) and in most places employee satisfaction ie strong labor laws. Everything is about lowering costs and maximizing profits and it’s just everywhere. Add in the modern accessibility of the stock market as a way to make a passive or semi passive income (sometimes) and you have a financially focused population. We also tend to be more vain and money focused to buy stuff Europeans seem to value experience more.
thehumanjarvis@reddit
We live in a financial system poised to destroy us at potentially the slightest mis-step or moment of misfortune and leave us for dead.
itsjustme10@reddit
On your second point of working quickly I was also Tod this as an American who worked in Dublin for a while. My Irish coworkers would always say stuff about the speed and efficiency at which I worked. Which one is part of my personality but two I think Americans abroad are always trying to out best face forward. I’ve had convo with other Americans who have worked abroad and I think subconsciously we are trying to beat the dumb and lazy accusations so we over perform even when it’s not needed or expected.
DirtyWriterDPP@reddit
I also think us Americans are used to operating with our necks in the guiltoine at work. Up or out, performance review processes that mandate a certain percentage of workers be let go each year, potential financial ruin if you are unemployed.
I think the last one may be the biggest. My wife and I are part of what we call the "working well off", yes we earn a very premium household income (400k+), but we don't have rich parents or millions in assets to fall back on.
One kid is developmentally delayed so he goes to a special preschool for kids with hearing and speech issues, plus speech therapy in occupational therapy every week that's about $2,400 a month. Another kid was having her spirit crushed by being a high achiever at a public school while trying her best with ADHD, so she's at a private school that can help her work on her struggles instead of being ignored so the teacher can focus on kids who are struggling with standardized testing. That's $60,000 a year. The middle kid she's fine though.
My point is that without my income yes we could get by for quite a while on savings but only if we cut out a lot of currently big and important things in our expense load.
So My point in all that is that it motivates us to work our ass off at jobs so we can keep those jobs because they have extremely high expectations and also advance at those jobs so that we can increase our income.
I think many of the worker protections and social safety net that people in Europe enjoy dramatically reduces that pressure to be a high performer.
ParentalUnit27@reddit
Wow, dude. Wow. I don't envy your perspective on things
Ihavepills@reddit
Now I need to hear yours, because I believe every word he said to be true and factual, not so much a perspective. I'd like to understand what you meant by that please.
ParentalUnit27@reddit
I'd rather not honestly, but I don't think OP is not being untruthful either.
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
Europeans often call Americans dumb, but I don't think they've ever called Americans lazy.
idekbruno@reddit
Except the whole thing about Americans all being fat because we’re too lazy to walk anywhere
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
ok that one's fair enough
deathbychips2@reddit
To me physically and mentally lazy are separate. There are a lot of hardworking people at work who are unwilling to workout and there are fit people who are unwilling to sit down and get work done.
0x706c617921@reddit
Anyone moving abroad would want to keep their job and even well at it… at least until they are eligible to apply for citizenship in that country and once they are officially a citizen.
But then again a lot of Americans weirdly don’t take citizenship and legal status seriously anyways.
I find it weird when I see Americans living in for instance the UK as an example stay on an ILR until some reactionary event occurs in the United States such as an undesirable (to them) president being elected or what not.
JayRandom212@reddit
You're probably seeing selection bias. Americans who don't understand business and finance don't get sent overseas to work on the new corporate acquisition.
SellSideShort@reddit
On the opposite side of this, I am an American living in Zurich, supposedly a finance hub and am shocked how many people seem totally financially illiterate here
Geepandjagger@reddit
I found in Europe people have a safety net and expect somebody else to take care of them if something goes wrong whereas in America people are a lot more self reliant. In general of course
tertain@reddit
Now just imagine how most Americans work twice as slowly (or twice as less time) as a motivated Indian or Chinese immigrant, and how to compared to Europeans.
Defiant-Opposite-501@reddit
There's probably some selection bias here. You're seeing American tech workers on overseas assignments. Such people tend to be high speed.
Then we have the people of Wal-Mart.
madd_warr@reddit
My girlfriend is French and we discovered this when visiting her family last year.
I’m only knowledgeable because I have to be- we don’t have as much of a social safety net over here. You need to be investing to be safe when you retire. I hate it 0/10 don’t want this hobby
DJ-Griff@reddit
When there are no societal fail-safes suddenly you are your own fail safe
jivemasterjohn@reddit
Hyper capitalist society, no social safety net, self funded retirement, and a complex tax system. It’s much more a part of everyday life
Human-Aspect-7776@reddit
The US requires us to build our own financial safety net.
Velqi@reddit
You're joking right?
default_admin_2@reddit
Republicans have been destroying education for over 50 years. Billionaires want us stupid. Our entire financial and economic education is based on bogus free market capitalism and criticism of it is strongly shut down.
you2234@reddit
Wait till you meet the Germans
todayistheday666@reddit
because it's a cut throat world over here in the states
if you don't look after yourself, you will be replaced or go broke
Pleasant_Quail2583@reddit
GDP doesn't lie.
Scarletsuccubus@reddit
We have to be because we are paid so little that we need to have the skills to make what we do have last long enough.
GLight3@reddit
Because America was built with minimum government in mind. We have to do our own taxes, buy our own health insurance, buy our own education, build our own retirement, etc. Like the stock market itself, everything in America is a gamble. This creates a LOT of stress and anxiety, because many Americans live with no safety net, so we get as financially literate as possible to ensure we're as financially safe as possible.
raobuntu@reddit
The way that the American financial system works in regards to personal finance is that it has a high ceiling and a low floor. If you put in the effort, understand the market, understand tax burdens and loopholes you can really maximize your financial return. In Europe I would say it's the other way around, a high floor with a low ceiling. In most countries the government takes care of filing taxes for you, there's a broad social safety net, etc. Combine that with a culture that isn't a striver culture the way the US is, it's not surprising that this is what happens.
originaljbw@reddit
I would say people started getting a lot more financially literate when corporations shifted from pensions to 401k accounts. You control how much goes in it. You can choose between safer, conservative funds or (potentially) higher yield more risky funds. A lot of larger companies offer a 401k match usually up to 5ish percent. You lose money by not playing.
raobuntu@reddit
While I do think that the comment section isn't giving enough credit to American financial literacy, I do think they've hit on an interesting point. We have 2 distinct groups - those who play the game and those who don't know the game exists. From the first group everyone involved is highly informed with regards to personal finance, market movement, macroeconomic trends, etc. The other doesn't realize their money is literally losing value by the month. I don't see many Americans in a middle ground
JohnHazardWandering@reddit
Assuming those people actually have any money.
There are LOTS of Americans living paycheck to paycheck and just scraping by.
PrimaryInjurious@reddit
Eh, that stat is very over inflated. It includes 1/3 of people making more than $250K a year.
esotericbatinthevine@reddit
As someone who worked in personal finance, there is a large middle group. They have financial advisors or even just invest in their Roth IRA and 401k in target date funds to make it as hands off as possible. That seems to be the majority of people in my experience, well, those with enough money to participate.
stewmberto@reddit
Yeah target date/lifecycle funds mean I can just put money in there and not micromanage it (cause that would probably make it worse)
esotericbatinthevine@reddit
Smart
People complain about financial advisors, which is justified to a degree. But they act as financial therapists for so many people and it's worth the price when you need someone to regularly talk you off the cliff of poor financial decisions. It's also valuable when you want someone to hand hold you through life planning. You can spend a lot of time doing it yourself and still likely miss things, or you can get professional help and not have the anxiety. Some people just parked their investments there because it made them feel better, but that wasn't common. Most made very good use of the advisor's time.
Traditional-Ad-8737@reddit
Thank god for my financial advisors. They consolidated my 401ks from all my different jobs, and make me think about the future. I don’t have the time and am too mentally exhausted to take full control of investing . One of most valuable lessons I’ve learned it’s ok to pay for a reputable expert in that field. That includes a plumber, electrician, builder or whatever. Ill stick with making the money and can still flex if I want to, but usually I talk it out with my financial peeps and they seem like they are making good decisions that align with my thoughts/needs.
esotericbatinthevine@reddit
I'm glad! Some really don't provide good value for the money, it's true. And that's why it's important to do your research, shop around like you would for a plumber, electrician, etc. Understand how their fees work and what you get for it.
When I changed careers, I left my money with the group I'd worked with, but now had to pay. But I didn't want to deal with it, at all. I get the mandatory annual call to meet regulatory requirements, but that's all. They talk directly with my CPA to address anything tax related. I was in it deep when I worked in it, now, I'm doing something different and love knowing I can trust them to do everything for me. It's so nice.
meeseek_and_destroy@reddit
Hi I’m that outlier 🥲 8 years in finance working in fintech and lending but I have no desire to play the game whatsoever. Just a girl without even a college degree that’s on the “numbers just make sense” side of the spectrum, finance just isn’t a special interest of mine so I can’t make myself participate.
raobuntu@reddit
I mean this super respectfully, but you're actively harming yourself if you have the resources to play the game and you're not. Even pay a money manager or a financial adviser if you find a good one. Or just buy SPY or some other broad market super safe ETF. Just don't put it in a HYSA or leave it sitting there in cash
Novel-Promotion-8451@reddit
I have knowledge of the game but no means as of now to play, I guess gambling on a business is sort of playing the game but not in the same way.
meeseek_and_destroy@reddit
You’re totally right. I guess the best way I can explain it is that due to past experiences I have adapted a mindset that at any given moment I will need all of my savings liquid so the idea of any of it being tied up gives me anxiety.
Reveluvtion@reddit
That's what the emergency fund is for
raobuntu@reddit
I personally keep 2 months expenses in liquid cash. I know people who keep a year's. It's entirely up to what you can stomach risk wise but nothing with having a rainy day fund. It just likely doesn't need all of your savings and if it does you can always liquidate whatever you've put in the market.
pmyourcoffeemug@reddit
Doesn’t investing broadly like that open you up for investing in companies like Lockheed Martin who are making massive profits on bombing civilians?
Odd_Necessary8090@reddit
Yes, this is also part of playing the money game in America
pmyourcoffeemug@reddit
Thanks, I hate it here.
RythmicBleating@reddit
There are quite a lot of "Ethical Index Funds" that attempt to exclude different things. It's not perfect, and the returns will be likely be lower.
pmyourcoffeemug@reddit
Cool cool cool. Dropping bombs is more profitable.
Biohack@reddit
If you care there are certain funds called ESG funds that specifically look at environment, social, and governance exclude companies that are outside of the ethical alignment of the fund.
For example the vanguard VSGX fund notes that they:
pmyourcoffeemug@reddit
I don’t invest now but want to “play the game” and this is great info. Would totally invest in weed though…thanks!
GravyTrain033@reddit
Yes. They’re very profitable right now. But seriously, you can see what specific stocks the funds hold. Just google the ticker, there are several websites that will give you the breakdowns
Dull_Complaint1407@reddit
Well that’s what paying someone else if for. I have a decent understanding of economics because it plays such a big part of our politics and well as the fact that my school had advanced macro eco and not personal finance
sigmacoder@reddit
I agree, and the employees of a company acquiring Euro companies are likely in the top 20% of financial literacy, leading to OP's conclusion.
Valuable_Recording85@reddit
The thing that bothers me is that you can basically be in the middle-ground with your finances if you live in a country with robust regulations on businesses and safety nets for the average person.
One other thing that bothers me is that there are plenty of people who understand how the system works but don't earn enough money to do much with it.
undreamedgore@reddit
I put my money in a 401k at 10%. Medium returns. Only look to check that all my money hasn't bee. Stollen.
I save, spend and operate freely, just checking that I'm gaining more than I'm losing.
I'd estimate I'm in the middle.
Junior-Biscotti-6546@reddit
Eh. I know how things work and a lot about taxes. But I don't pay attention to market movements or macroeconomics. There's nothing I can do about those things, and timing a market is a fool's errand. Couple of vanguard funds for the iras, age based fund in the 529, max out the 401ks and pick broad stock funds. Worked well for my dad and has worked well for us.
I do play around the margins, making sure I use a hysa instead of no-interest checking, using I bonds to avoid sky high state taxes on e-funds, etc. But I'm not actively managing ANYTHING market related.
mfolives@reddit
This is such a true statement that the government mandated, a little over a decade ago, that retirement plan assets default into investments that include equities instead of just sitting in cash.
Boopa0011@reddit
I honestly feel like I have to understand the basics of this crap just to have a prayer of a decent retirement. I need to understand fine distinctions between different types of plans and accounts, which all have different contribution and withdrawal limits and tax regimes.
It is the LAST thing I want to spend my time studying but it feels like I have no choice.
My partner doesn't know much at all about any of this stuff, and he is also a 40 year old man without a dime saved for retirement.
MainusEventus@reddit
Yes. You need to learn it. The best day was yesterday, and the second best day is today. Quick rundown: 401k is generally an employer based play. You can contribute pre-tax money to it up to $24,500. Aim to hit that amount every year at a minimum. Next, a Roth IRA. Max for this is $7,000/ year. If you make over a certain amount, you’ll need to dump post tax money into a traditional IRA, and then convert it to a Roth. You essentially pay tax again on that $7,000.. but it then grows tax free. That gets you to $31.5k. If you have kids you can contribute pre-tax money to a 529 for each kid up to $5,000 and use this for any academic pursuits at any point in the future.
Fringelunaticman@reddit
Roth is 7500 this year. Solid advice though
MainusEventus@reddit
Even better
IneptFortitude@reddit
I feel like I need to take a full-blown college level course to understand this stuff. My weakest subjects were all math related. I grew up in a poor family and never have had any sort of relationship with financial institutions outside of having a credit card and setting up a debit account at a bank. That’s pretty much it
Reveluvtion@reddit
Just spend some time on r/bogleheads and read the guides. You'll learn a lot by simply being exposed to all the information
raobuntu@reddit
If you have the time for it look up personal finance courses at the local community college. They're a great resource for adult learning
Boopa0011@reddit
I should say that I already understand all of this but it was very much against my will and I still feel like there's a 50% chance I will end up getting screwed somehow because I did something wrong.
xxxxxxxxxooxxxxxxxxx@reddit
I feel this. I’m an immigrant in mid 30s and only 3 years of retirement savings (+ around $10k pension in my home country).
I’m a few months ill have managed to max a Roth IRA 3 years in a row which feels like a big achievement but it’s at the expense of being able to spend on things I’d like to spend on, and I still feel way behind for retirement.
Weird-Bluebird-132@reddit
I'm lucky enough to have a pension, and trust me, I'm fully vested in my Excel spreadsheets, my investing methods, how to take advantage of Social Security, how to maximize FAFSA, how I'm going to manage MAGI for subsidized ACA, and all of the same stuff.
Basically, the pension is the "BND" component of our entire strategy, and I can't imagine counting on pension without knowing all of the other stuff, too.
bihari_baller@reddit
And a 401k is just the start. A lot of companies offer RSU's and ESPP's. Those are money printing machines if you use them properly.
Top_Location_5899@reddit
If only the strivers didn’t force the rest of us to become finance minors lmao
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
Very good points.
ImpressiveWalrus7369@reddit
Your description of Europe sounds more like a low ceiling and a low floor.
RelevanceReverence@reddit
Well said.
Valuable_Recording85@reddit
This. My condensed version was going to be that it's more difficult for Americans to have the same financial security that most of the developed world gets from social safety nets. We used to have those, back when America was great.
YouFeedTheFish@reddit
...that, and there is no government pension to take care of you. Like the rest of the American mindset, this is a part of rugged individualism.
IdaDuck@reddit
Bingo, this is it exactly. Americans are financially incentivized to understand finances and markets. Personally and in business. Which benefits the folks better equipped to handle that but hampers those who aren’t. Europe largely doesn’t reward the same efforts.
IneptFortitude@reddit
I feel like it’s more “hustle” culture than striver culture. People are doing a lot of this because it’s the only way to have a comfortable amount of money. Side gigs, second jobs, special interests which are basically just reselling things.
BlazinAzn38@reddit
We also have to be more conscious of savings in general because we pay for so much out of pocket: medical expenses, college, etc.
TheVentiLebowski@reddit
This is probably a good deal of the explanation (the other being these are highly educated people). European countries have stronger social safety nets than we do in the US. We have to be more proactive and knowledgeable about r/personalfinance.
This is is different from understanding r/finance or r/economics.
ZookeepergameNo2431@reddit
Because there’s minimal social safety net here in the U.S., so you have to save for college, decide what health insurance policy to enroll in, manage your 401k for retirement, etc.
acakaacaka@reddit
Cause in europe the goverment does everything for you. Healthcare, pension, unemployment.....
Witty_Safety2391@reddit
We need to be prepared for retirement, our children's college education, health care (even with job subsidized health insurance, we still payout for care) and rainy day funds. Sink or swim, ya know?
FreedToRoam@reddit
Hard to say whether the particular group is financially literate or just good at consuming AI slop
myster1ouspapaya@reddit
I think you just happened to run into a group that is analytical by default. But go on to any regular urban or rural area and you’re more likely to run into many highly illiterate people. Dont forget tens of millions of people voted for Trump, think vaccines as the devil, think climate change is a liberal hoax, have $800 car payments when they only make $40k per year, and on average don’t have $1000 set aside for emergencies.
BeingSamJonesss@reddit
Well your experience is with a unique set of educated individuals. As an American working in finance, I would say the majority are not as financially literate as those you’ve met
Zestyclose_Elk9085@reddit
I mean, isn’t the answer pretty obvious? Capitalism is built on the pursuit of profit, so it naturally incentivizes financial literacy in order to achieve that goal.
Disassociastrid@reddit
The Americans who are relocated to Europe by their corporations tend to be educated and wealthy. The average American is not being offered a position in Europe. You’re getting the cream.
mystyle__tg@reddit
Whats “wealthy” in this context though? People throw that around but in the US there’s a huge range of wealth. Are we taking millionaires? Or just those making above the median salary?
IHateCedarFever@reddit
If they live in a MCOL city, their salary is probably at minimum $160k. Double that if they’re coming from the Bay Area or NYC. The median salary of someone going abroad is more like $200k+ though. My company is a Fortune 50 multinational and if they send an American to expat in Europe, they are definitely a high performer.
For one thing it costs the American company A LOT to relocate an employee. Oftentimes the company pays for accommodation in the new country (so employee can keep paying for their house back home), private/American school is guaranteed for the kids, the company pays for shipping fees to bring or buy furniture and a car, and pays for trips back home for the entire family once every quarter. So they really are selecting employees that “deserve it.” So they’ve probably got their shit together much much much more than most.
They probably do have a million dollars net worth between their house, 401k, and private brokerage accounts.
No-Contact6664@reddit
Wealthy people don't work.
Energy_Turtle@reddit
Even the richest man in the world is known to be a workaholic. This doesn't hold up under even small scrutiny.
mystyle__tg@reddit
What idiot told you that? 😂
OldMoneyMarty@reddit
I was going to say. A lot of Americans do not even have a passport, let alone move, or want to move abroad. This is a very unique subset of the populace. For companies I worked for, those sent to London, Zurich, Frankfurt etc were often exceptionally bright which also came with a strong financial literacy.
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
The passport data is old. That has changed dramatically.
UnseenTardigrade@reddit
They're still right when they say a lot of Americans don't have a passport. It's about 50/50 now. (Which is a big change from 30 years ago, yes, but what the commenter said was accurate).
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
Well, yes, a lot is still correct, but at this point most Americans have a passport, and that's a huge change. A hundred sixty million people or so would seem to have a passport, which isn't exactly a unique subset of the populace.
Rumpus-Time-Is-Over@reddit
It isn’t clear to me that these are Americans relocated to Europe. They might be living in America and interacting over Zoom or similar.
The key point here was this was a tech giant. The white collar employees at those companies, whether working in the US or relocated to Europe, are not typical.
FaithlessnessRich490@reddit
No I'm damn near retarded and go to work in Europe quite a bit due to my specialized knowledge and willingness to travel.
myOEburner@reddit
That's not really true.
You might get the "cream" of the younger unattached workers willing to go on an adventure -or- the "cream" of those approaching retirement who are also considering retirement in Europe. Otherwise you get whoever you can to go uproot their family and go overseas for a while.
Mid-career experienced workers with families aren't as willing to uproot and go to Europe or Asia. Especially if the other spouse is a professional in their own right. High-performers tend to find each other.
I am a high performer and have been approached for such an assignment. I would never take an overseas assignment with my family right now! My spouse has a great career here and we do quite well. Frankly, moving to another country is a huge risk.
GooseinaGaggle@reddit
And even then some are belligerent in the defense of their own ideas to the point they'll put their fingers in their ears and begin screeching "communism" when another person brings up something that doesn't exactly align with their own beliefs
tychii93@reddit
This. I'm an American and I feel just as lost when I get into that topic. I'm just trying to survive.
AlgernusPrime@reddit
I work for a European company from the states and we have like about 10 of us Yankees. All of us are college educated with a good mix of masters and bachelors. I’d say we’re financially much better off than the typical Americans. I think outside of me, all of them can retire if they want to.
Frostypumpkin22@reddit
Agree. I think OP seeing a skewed sample. Half my coworkers blow money on too much car at a 9% auto loan, can’t figure out a price of good per volume. Basically completely stupid and broker for it.
LookAtTheFlowers@reddit
Exactly this. No company is going to send their lazy-bum couch-surfing IT new hire who wastes money on Funko Pops to Europe
GiggityGoblinGobbler@reddit
I wouldn’t say exactly that, ur yeah OP is dealing with the educated
getElephantById@reddit
Not necessarily. Sometimes it's "we need someone to go to the Europe branch for a while, you don't have a family, so we picked you." In fact this has been the majority of cases I can think of.
MimiLaRue2@reddit
Because we're a capitalist society that values profit and money above all else. This has permeated every facet of our lives and we consider money in all of our decision making from preparing meals to choosing careers.
DarkGamer@reddit
I'm wondering if financially literate people might be overrepresented in the tech industry?
Outrageous_Garden586@reddit
It’s because wealthy well educated people tend to be the ones who relocate for work.
RupeThereItIs@reddit
More like the ones tapped & willing to go overseas for assignment, are more likely to be financially literate.
hysys_whisperer@reddit
Yeah, the subset here is people with a degree in tech who are expats.
That selects a very specific type of American.
AnomalySystem@reddit
I believe it’s people who work in tech not people who have a degree in tech
ClockAggressive1224@reddit
I was thinking "unrepresentative sample". The typical American is financially illiterate and in massive debt.
grooveman15@reddit
The handful of tech people I know are only literate about their own salaries and nothing about personal finance, macro economics, etc
I work no where near finance or anything like that… and I know more just by reading the newspaper?
LaScoundrelle@reddit
The people I know in tech aren’t extremely financially literate, but I guarantee it’s still much more than the average American. Most Americans and Europeans don’t own any stock, to put things into perspective.
idekbruno@reddit
A slim majority of Americans do own stock (or at least participate in the market in some way), it’s pretty much a requirement if you ever want to retire
grooveman15@reddit
Fair enough. I think it isn’t tech but the tax bracket they’re in that makes the difference.
I do think a big difference btw America and Europe is the stigma around discussing salary and personal finance. We, Americans, will talk about how much we make and all that. This is good/bad
Good: we are more knowing about what we’re owed, what we’re worth, and can demand more out of our employers. Power to labor, union up!
Bad: we created a more materialistic and financially motivated society which cripples us sociologically
LaScoundrelle@reddit
I would have said the opposite regarding American comfort discussing salaries. I guess it may depend on region in the US and Europe, both.
grooveman15@reddit
Europeans are mostly known to NEVER talk personal finance in a social setting. It’s a BIG taboo in most cultures.
It’s considered impolite, show-off,
LaScoundrelle@reddit
It depends on the country according to this thread and also my personal experience: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEurope/comments/o3z0xl/how_taboo_is_discussing_your_salary_and_income_in/
However, in the US most people I know are not comfortable discussing salary at all. I’m probably the only person I know who thinks it should be a normal thing to discuss with friends.
magaketo@reddit
I'm wondering if the financially literacy is tied to people with something to lose. Get a nice home, start a family, have nice things, vacation, etc., all while saving for retirement. It takes some discipline to not spend it all as you make it. And part of that discipline is financial literacy.
People with nothing to lose or no hope of being in good financial shape often have little to no financial literacy.
captainstormy@reddit
Unless it's finance adjacent tech not really. I know lots of people in IT making $150K+ in the Midwest and still live paycheck to paycheck. They just spend it as fast as they make it and don't care about next week, little yet next decade.
Exciting_Vast7739@reddit
Well, there's a difference between people who work in the Midwest, and people who get paid to move to Europe to work. That's NBA vs YMCA ball.
captainstormy@reddit
Also very true.
Though they can be the same people too. I lived in Germany for 18 months for work and the UK for 6 when we bought a few European companies.
Exciting_Vast7739@reddit
That's fair. I think what OP is missing overall is that you are doing pretty well in life if you get to professionally work in Europe.
If your exposure to Americans is in a professional setting, with people who are flying to Europe for work, you're not dealing with the average American or the average American financial literacy.
captainstormy@reddit
100% true. The Americans OP is running into aren't anywhere near average.
Rotten-Roses@reddit
Tbh I'm managing to live paycheck to paycheck that way but it's exclusively from paying my lawyer like $5k/mo for my divorce from my POS ex (protective orders are expensive) and the instant the cost drops off I'll be able to put all of that to savings.
Tommy_Wisseau_burner@reddit
Personal finance and understanding money transactions at a company are vastly different. I work in tech. I can’t say I’m great at personal finance. I make financially dumb decisions. But there’s a difference between knowing what I need to do to be financially savvy vs seeing numbers spelled out on a spreadsheet for targets I need to hit. Most people in tech aren’t about financial maximization. I can go on a whole ass spiel about low cost region sourcing being absolute bullshit even though, on paper, you are saving money
aka_hopper@reddit
I have had a completely different experience as someone that works in tech. My peers know much more finance than the average person.
HotSauce2910@reddit
Are you sure they're really living paycheck to paycheck? Or are they putting a ton into 401k and separate monthly savings such that they don't have much cash sitting around at the end of the month?
captainstormy@reddit
They are bumming money for lunch sometimes or skipping it because they are broke. Meanwhile they always have some new toy they just bought.
I know all about being investment poor. I'm that guy. I've been investing 50% of my paycheck since I got my first job out of college. A lot of people just waste their money.
MainusEventus@reddit
Investment Poors Unite!! 🤘
Levitlame@reddit
OP seems to be focused more on knowledge than practice. So that wouldn’t preclude them. A lot of educated people know better, have the money and still live that way.
Infinite_Crow_3706@reddit
I’ve know people who talk a good game but still have 2 x huge car payments and a 6 bed house they don’t need.
Not saying it’s everyone, but there is a difference between theory and practice.
FaithlessnessRich490@reddit
I doubt it. Think about it. We all play on robinhood and coinbase. Get ripped the fuck off by credit cards and payday lending.
We may get ourselves in pretty bad shape fininacial personally. But you learn a lot of financial street smarts making bad personal decisions.
When you get to a country with less disposable income and less credit opertunities. An American explaining why a 72 month loan on a new BMW maybe isn't such a good Idea. May seem like a financial guru to someone who is new to the concept.
myOEburner@reddit
No, they're not. Trust me on that.
Being good at math does not make you good at finances. I know many, many engineers who are competent math people but are utterly inept at anything related to personal finance.
DarkGamer@reddit
I would have assumed that would allow them to understand compound interest better than most.
myOEburner@reddit
My 10 year old gets the concept. Understanding compound interest isn't the problem.
CountryClubMembr@reddit
Not particularly, but they're almost certainly over-represented in the ones being offered jobs in Europe lol.
Exciting_Vast7739@reddit
AND in people who find a way to work in Europe. This is pretty high status stuff for your average American.
I have a friend who secured a job in Germany, and I'm jealous :D
InevitableRhubarb232@reddit
I’m thinking that people with 26% eight year car loans might be under represented in the tech sector.
OP has massive sample bias
Particular_Bet_5466@reddit
lol I see what you did there, the stereotypical construction worker out of highschool who bought a $50,000 truck in his first few months in the workforce.
larevolutionaire@reddit
Or from his army sign up.
crek42@reddit
Pretty much any white collar company does, sure. You’re talking about college educated adults who prioritized their career and earning potential. Of course there’s massive differences to the folks who take out 8-yr car loans
Winowill@reddit
In most tech companies, part of your compensation is stocks. Up to a third of mine has been this way. You get to know the ins and outs in part out of necessity, so I would say so
xyzqwa@reddit
No way, tech people in my experience are some of the dumbest folks with their money. They have an overinflated sense of intelligence which leads them to making some dumb financial decisions.
hysys_whisperer@reddit
IMO doctors and lawyers are way dumber with money, but the key here is that they've selected for only expats, and expats are generally very good with money.
SparkSignals@reddit
Not really, in my experience. Ive been in tech for 20 years.
hysys_whisperer@reddit
Yeah, they missed the expat part of expat in tech, which is the key here.
Hollocene13@reddit
I think financially literate Americans are over represented in working abroad.
MillerTime_9184@reddit
As someone that worked in debt collections for 22 years, this seems right.
Kaurifish@reddit
They’re certainly looking at a non-representative fraction.
I worked for a company that was acquired by a European outfit and strip mined of managers. They took all the most ruthless ones. I’m sure they all knew how to get the most out of their 401(k), but I wouldn’t turn my back on them in a life raft.
LA_Nail_Clippers@reddit
Having worked in tech for the last 20ish years in Silicon Valley, I think this is likely it.
Working in the tech sphere, compensation isn't always straight paycheck. There's all sorts of non-cash income, from benefits to RSUs to options to retirement systems; that all mean someone in tech may be somewhat more knowledgeable than the average non-tech worker.
With that said, plenty of tech workers are not all that educated on the topic. In fact, a number of them completely talk out their asses (cryptobros come to mind). And a lot know a ton about company finance - VCs, series A and B investors, etc. but don't know anything about personal finance and make terrible life choices that way.
PitbullRetriever@reddit
I think it’s more that the people involved in M&A within any company have to be financially literate
C21H27Cl3N2O3@reddit
This is definitely selection bias.
FatHighKnee@reddit
Youtube baby. Starting with covid the fin-tech creator space exploded with content. There are literally millions of videos about how everytbing from investing to the national debt to inflation to how to open a roth ira to dividend growth to SPACs & IPOs are right there on youtube
nuNconfused@reddit
America is a very sink or swim society. If you are financially illiterate, you likely aren’t going to be a successful American working for a company that is financially capable of acquiring other companies. So it’s really a confirmation bias, I would say.
I know plenty of financially illiterate people, but they’re forklift operators in a warehouse paying 800 dollars a month for a pickup truck to commute to work with, if you catch my drift.
Xylus1985@reddit
Rugged individualism. Also American retirement planning is very complex so you need to learn about how tax and investment works when you first join a company and get asked about your elections. I remember having someone on assignment to US and spent 2 hours walking her through how various accounts work. Do this for a few times and it’s a master class of personal financial planning.
IsThisDecent@reddit
Consider that American working for international tech corporations who move overseas for their jobs are not "average" Americans
Hospitable_Goyf@reddit
We’re told to leave the house at 18, and that the world will eat us alive.
We get a very short time to sing or swim.
No one is going to fix our health for free.
We have to hit the ground running, fighting tooth and nail, or we will surely fail.
Wile I wouldn’t call it “good” I would call it an effective motivator.
And most states are “right to work” fostering a dog-eat-dog/cutthroat atmosphere.
“Experience” in America is slang for “knows how to navigate the toxic work culture we have established.” Which is usually absolute efficiency now matter how much of your hair falls out.
Here in the states people either stick to their humble dead end job, or will climb the backs of others to what they desire.
EconomyDepartment720@reddit
I think it’s because everything is so expensive here and there’s this “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” mentality that makes it so people learn every possible way to save and invest money over here.
theeCrawlingChaos@reddit
The US has the strongest, most robust economy in world history and it has been that way for well over a century at this point. The obsession with money, specifically personal wealth accumulation through entrepreneurship, investing, and good ol' fashioned speculation, is so deeply ingrained into American culture that it's hard to imagine that it could be any other way. Heck, the American dollar is so iconic that the color green is evocative of the concept of money.
Gold-Tea@reddit
Americans have more to lose if they aren't financially literate. But there is also a ton of potential in this country if you're willing to apply yourself in the necessary ways.
That being said, the average American is not financially literate. Businesses make more money when people aren't careful about their spending, credit cards make insane money off of people being careless about their credit usage, and a lot of companies have incentive to under pay/ over charge. It's easier to extract money out of desperate people.
Flaky-Ocelot-1265@reddit
Because we have zero social safety nets, we have to be! And honestly I’d say most people in the US are financially illiterate.
allegedlydm@reddit
Most Americans are not particularly financially literate. You’re working with a very specific subgroup - Americans high enough up with a tech giant to land overseas jobs. They’ve been chosen for their knowledge and efficiency at changing things up - you shouldn’t assume all Americans are like this. This isn’t a representative sample.
3dprintedthingies@reddit
We had to make the credit score system more difficult because Americans are too financially literate. An 800 started to mean nothing.
Your statement doesn't make any sense. Americans are very self judgemental compared to their view of a lens of perfection. Numbers back up that we work harder and are more financially literate than our European peers. Our system is just set up to screw the poor over at every turn. Put the average American in the European system and they'd absolutely thrive and look like the type A nut jobs we truly are.
There are plenty of screw ups in Europe too. Their safety net just keeps them from the streets while ours tosses them in the gutter.
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
Most Americans are not particularly financially literate. This is true, but they are still way over most Europeans. It's part of our culture.
allegedlydm@reddit
I beg of you, go to my rural Appalachian hometown and walk around until you find someone financially literate.
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
You could do the same in the same place in the UK, of course. Picking the shittiest part of the country (or one of) is not an accurate comparison.
And I've known lots of Appalachians who know a lot about money, but of course they all left Appalachia.
allegedlydm@reddit
I never said my hometown was shitty but go off I guess
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
You said "rural Appalachian" (baseline shitty sadly, I live in Virginia)... and "Find somebody financially literate there. " So yeah, I'm assuming shitty.
Skippeo@reddit
True, but they are being compared to Europeans at a similar level in the same company, so the point still stands.
allegedlydm@reddit
Not really "at the same company", since the European employees predate the buyout.
GrassCandle@reddit
But even educated Europeans are much less concerned with personal finance than Americans are. They don’t have to be because they have a safety net.
Anyone that has worked internationally knows that bureaucracy within European companies makes change move at a snails pace. There is little to no incentive for employees to take initiative on process improvement because labor is largely contract based and growth prospects are limited.
allegedlydm@reddit
Financial literacy and awareness of personal finance aren’t exactly the same thing.
GrassCandle@reddit
Exactly, no. But pretending like the overlap isn’t substantial is dishonest.
Financial literacy would be understanding how interest works, what inflation is, the difference between stocks / bonds / cash, risk principles, and basic budgeting principles. Management of personal finances requires an understanding of all of these in order to execute
WistfulDread@reddit
Not really.
The local Europeans he's comparing them against are not being brought in from across the divide.
Outsiders being brought at high levels are explicitly held to higher standards than normal.
boldjoy0050@reddit
Came here to say the same thing. Most of our economy functions on borrowing money. Even $200 items sold online now can be put on a payment plan. The fact that this is even offered as an option means people are doing it.
One_Cause3865@reddit
I mean yea financing a $200 consumer purchase is a red flag, but blanket statements implying that borrowing is fundamentally bad is kind of financially illiterate in its own way
annang@reddit
You can put DoorDash on a payment plan now. The credit system is fucked.
anonymouse278@reddit
Not even just $200 items. Virtually every online shopping cart now offers afterpay or klarna, with the monthly payments calculated and displayed at checkout, as an alternative. I ordered a t-shirt recently- not a designer one, just a regular shirt that was $19ish- and they offered four monthly payments as an option at checkout. Wild.
0x706c617921@reddit
Financial literacy isn’t the problem in America. It’s literally the lack of self control in spending and frugality which plagues American society.
psy-ay-ay@reddit
Idk I think you’re really overestimating what might be required to transfer overseas. It’s not necessarily a promotion and might even be a pay cut. Pretty junior people can get sponsored too
leroyskagnetti@reddit
Yeah really want to emphasize this answer...
Ponchyan@reddit
Because in America, Money is King, and you are on your own (Rugged Individualism, and all that), so financial literacy is required if one is to survive swimming in a sea of sharks. It’s a shame that kids are not taught these things in high school.
Asleep_Phase@reddit
Because we have no social safety net. And everyone is trying to scam us here constantly. But the truly sad part is even when we do learn and become savvy, it still doesn't mean we won't end up poor, unsheltered or with millions in medical debt.
TexGrrl@reddit
We have less of a social safety net so learning about finance and economics helps us provide for ourselves.
JanetWD78@reddit
Once upon a time there was a class in high school that took care of that issue
Outrageous_Meal9414@reddit
Are these Americans in the room with us right now?
Horror-Primary7739@reddit
You know money is the god of America.
Longjumping-Eye-4257@reddit
Capitalism.
Outside-Athlete2849@reddit
Unfortunately school never taught me financial literacy so I had to teach it to myself
yancync@reddit
Because we have no realistic social safety nets and must fend for ourselves.
No_Ambition9382@reddit
I think you mean illiterate.
hotinhawaii@reddit
You are talking about a small subset of American workers here. Fully half of Americans read below a sixth grade level. I would imagine their financial literacy is also quite poor.
Conscious_Answer_571@reddit
The average American can barely read.
Next-Attempt-1921@reddit
I don't think the Americans will see the sarcasm in this one...
Public_Associate_874@reddit
The lack of social safety nets make it imperative to learn these things.
d3ut1tta@reddit
I'd actually say that the average American is more likely to actually be financially illiterate, and you just met a group that has a good head on their shoulders. The average American is taught to take on and leverage debt, and many are stuck in that hole. Some adapt and find ways out, and others spend their lifetime still stuck.
I fell in the bucket of the the type that took on college debt, and was very fortunate to not take on too much debt and paid it of quickly and with some strategies that leveraged as little interest as possible to make the payments more bearable. I bought properties in my lifetime on an average salary, so looking at my financial spend with a microscope was pertinent to find areas to cut spending and save.
It can be pretty situational. Some are lucky to have passed down family wisdom. Some learn by talking to others.
TokenSejanus89@reddit
Americans are workaholics, driven by the almighty dollar.
lonerdave@reddit
when you realize that everything that surrounds you is trying to get you to part with your money, you have to figure out how to be responsible with it
ParentalUnit27@reddit
I'm so glad others notice this.
I'm an immigrant to the U.S. For years, I felt like I had walked into a country of bankers.
Many people abroad are not nearly as well versed in investments, tax implications, mortgages, interest rates, different types of insurance, pensions, etc. Here, it seems like any redneck drinking 7/11 coffee is ready to talk rates and finances with you. It's crazy.
I will say that sometimes I get a little cynical about it all. Americans spend their whole lives optimizing their finances for retirement only to drop dead. Others die happy having never learned what a Roth IRA is.
worktogethernow@reddit
We are the get rich or die trying.
Nepofuk@reddit
Because they dont know anything besides how to work and survive, based on my experience. Try talking to them about politics or society.
etxipcli@reddit
We don't have a social safety net. We have a system where the average person is expected to learn how to invest in the stock market if they want to retire or protect themselves from starvation, homelessness, etc.
Our retirement system is essentially: "Here's an account we won't tax until you're older, good luck." Aside from that, we are a pretty rich country that allows people to accumulate tons of money so maybe we all just see what's going on and try to learn what the rich people do to get there.
RRW2020@reddit
I’m an American and move to the U.K. at 35, have been here 10 years. A few years back my fiance and I read a book about finances and investing. We both learned new stuff, but I was surprised at some things he did not know. Like if you invest $100 a month when you’re in your 20s, then stop when you hit 30, that money will be worth FAR more than if you invest $500 a month in your 40s. I’m an accountant and I know this stuff… but I think most Americans know it.
MattWolf96@reddit
I don't know, I've always paid my credit card off and never cared about keeping up with the Jonses, my 13 year old car is still running so I see no need to replace it. I personally know some people who have made idiotic decisions and are thousands in debt now, I just don't get it.
Our government also can't run an economy, especially when it comes to Republicans, they are always crashing it.
Flat_Art_734@reddit
Most Americans learned personal finance ("home economics") in school, including budgeting and forecasting
All Americans except billionaires have to calculate and file taxes every year. it's several hours of accounting work every year
16.5% of Americans own a business. In Europe it's just 6.8%
American culture enshrines money, look at our rap music videos they all show gold jewelry, fast cars, and piles of cash
sfffer@reddit
No safety nets, no gov pensions unless you work specific jobs, and financial industry hires the best and the brightest to devise new ways f**k the population from credit cards fees to risky new investment instruments through which state pension funds can be yolo’ed so tax payers can pick up the bill.
SpellCaster_7781@reddit
There’s a bit of selection bias here. I suspect that the Americans you met coming to Europe from the acquiring company were not a representative sample of the average American citizen.
Seth_Littrells_alt@reddit
It’s kind of necessary. My theory is that it’s intertwined with why Americans are so vastly more hostile to pickpocketers than Europeans, and also why private property rights are more deeply protected here. It’s probably also why the US ranks well above any European country except Poland in average number of hours worked per year.
The US federal state does not provide for us in the same way that most European states do; our healthcare multi-payer system is an almost entirely unregulated mess that causes almost all of us substantial concern about our financial security, and our federally-provided senior pension system is also an underfunded mess. This is why we have a retirement account structure called a 401k that’s pretty universal here, but isn’t even remotely as present in Europe, since your federal pension systems are, generally, solvent. Ours was, prior to this year’s tax cuts, expected to be solvent through approximately 2040. Now we’ve already shaved several years off that.
So we need to always be working on caching away all the money we can, and making it grow. It’s just a necessity.
thatisgoldjerrygold@reddit
The world and your place in it are directly tied to money. Why would we choose to be ignorant with it?
labdogs42@reddit
It's only out of necessity. I know I spend an inordinate amount of time figuring out how to get the most bang for my buck out of my health insurance every year because every year the plans change. I spend more time on that than on my 401k. It's crazy. But yeah, if you don't know how finances work here, you're screwed.
Common-Ad-9313@reddit
We don’t have the same social safety nets in the US as in Europe so we have to learn markets and investing for personal future financial self-preservation
DemonaDrache@reddit
We don't have a social safety net so we have to know enough to try to ensure we aren't homeless and starving in the street when we have to retire.
According-Hunt1515@reddit
Because we are all afraid of not having income to support ourselves. Jobs/pay are not secure. If you are unemployed for an extended period or something happens that costs all your savings, you are screwed. We mostly hate our jobs and are trying to figure out a way to have enough money to work less or retire as early as possible. Healthcare, insurance, taxes, cost of living keep increasing with no stop in sight. Our identities are tied to being able to prove we can do it on our own and if you need help you are a looser or a scammer (a like-able scammer is annoyingly admired). By the time we reach 30 or 40 we are exhausted and have less compassion for one another because in the end we all feel like there is nothing that can be done and it is too late to change(reality here of ability to change is irrelevant at this level). The machine is too big and the odds are stacked. I’m still optimistic though cause I bought a lottery ticket and the jackpot is huge. I think I have a real chance this time.
flintropic@reddit
In America if you don’t want to end up eating dog food in old age you better pay attention to your money.
MikeWPhilly@reddit
Kind of makes me sad if you consider America in general financially literate. Even in tech which I work in.
Out of curiosity what type of topics are you considering Americans very literate on?
Virtual-Fly-5501@reddit
Honestly I think the top 40 percent are very literate and worldly and go getter and the bottom 30 are complete degenerates.
BigBear92787@reddit
Americans at least smart ones are financially literate because our social security system is going tits up and if you dont prepare for it youre screwed
Initial_Scar5213@reddit
That is because the US government doesn't do shit for poor Americans. You are on your own to fend for yourself and your family.
Sledgehammer925@reddit
My husband says he studies finance because poverty sucks. We went from working poor to muli millionaires. It happens with greater ease here, I guess.
jeffsuzuki@reddit
There's probably an element of selection bias here: you're interacting with tech workers who are savvy enough to be trusted in an overseas position.
Plenty of Americans don't understand even the basics of finance.
There was an article a few months back where they found a lot of Americans don't understand the idea of "deferred interest": i.e., the installment plans where, if you pay the full amount before the due date, you accumulate no interest; otherwise, you accumulate interest from day one.
A surprising number of Americans didn't pay anything and were surprsied at the sudden accumulation of interset, in spite of the fact that every single bill included a line saying how much would be owed if the amount wasn't paid in full by the due date.
kurtplatinum@reddit
We have no social safety net, figure it out or live on the margins.
vandykerijn@reddit
I guess... 1) People migrating to the new world back then have to be super self -reliant and resourceful 2) Less social welfare ecosystem compared to Europe. No free higher education, no free healthcare. So people have to be smart with their money and grow their money for any big uncertainty in life
squirrel8296@reddit
Because it's expensive to live in the US.
So, for most people the options are get good at finances or go into extreme debt. Everything that is either provided (like healthcare) or heavily underwritten (like college/university) by governments in Europe is entirely on us citizens in the US to provide for ourselves. And, that's on top of we can lose our jobs and health insurance at any moment for any reason.
Also even though we have all of those additional micro-transactions, our total taxes aren't much lower than what most Europeans pay in taxes.
MarekRules@reddit
As an American I personally am terrible at those things. My experience has been that you either are really into it (finances, stock, investments) and that’s all you talk and care about… or you’re like me and you’re kind of clueless. I think it helps that I grew up in a decent household growing up where we were solidly middle class. I never had to worry about money, though I paid for my own college etc.
StopLookListenNow@reddit
Most Americans prioritze entertainment over education because they think they already know everything thing they need to know...until crap hits the fan. Then it's someone else's fault.
the-human-wrench@reddit
Because everyone is trying to bleed you dry at every possible juncture.
EryktheDead@reddit
Because if you’re not at least somewhat financially illiterate in the US, you won’t survive your credit score and you don’t really get to retire.
Deep-Hovercraft6716@reddit
I mean you are talking about successful adults working internationally. You have a huge amount of confirmation bias in your sample.
Level_Mastodon_8657@reddit
Unfortunately, financial literacy and financial responsibility don’t go hand in hand for far too many people.
bull0143@reddit
A lot of this has to do with lack of social safety nets. We no longer have pensions in America, and we have been told from a young age that we must make enough money to live on after we retire or be destitute.
The expectation is for the average person to figure out how to save at least a million dollars on their own. We have to know how finance works in order to do that.
christine-bitg@reddit
My personal opinion is that only the smartest ones from here in the US are getting offered the assignments where you are.
My experience here in the US is that only the employees on the fast track are offered transfers anywhere. Employers who have multiple locations don't spend money on transferring people that they don't intend to promote later.
Consequently, you're only seeing the best employees from here in the States. The ones you're seeing are not a representative sample of people in the US.
digitalnomadic@reddit
Wow I had a whole reply ready to go about how I disagreed and thought Americans were quite good at this compared to Europeans.
Then I read the post. Wow. Thank you 🙏
just-curious-2@reddit
It’s not taught in school, it’s drilled into us growing up that we need to save on our own for retirement. Always heard the government gonna run out of money and Social Security with be gone. Can’t rely on government for healthcare, college or retirement. Stock markets are only hope.
deathbychips2@reddit
This is sad because as an American I wouldn't have said the average American knows a lot about finances. Maybe the upper middle class people that probably work for that company are, many more upper middle class Americans certainly are more knowledgeable about money than others
HatchetJacks@reddit
It starts with a complete lack of education in high school. Personal finance, and basic economics should be required subjects. But like most things with our education system it is just one more broken thing.
D3moknight@reddit
I think one of the reasons is because America has very little in the way of financial safety nets for average people. We are basically always one doctor visit away from financial ruin, even as a millionaire. Most countries in the EU have so much assistance for the public if money is a problem for them. In the US if you lose your job and don't have enough in savings to last until you get a new job, you could be kicked out and become homeless. It's way more expensive to be poor here. If you make a mistake and draw too much money from the bank, you get hit with an overdraft fee. If you need a quick loan for bills for some reason, you can get a payday loan at 30% interest, or pawn your belongings and buy them back for nearly double what the pawn shop gave you. It's rough. You have to know about finances or you will end up on the streets.
Dopamineagonist21@reddit
People that get jobs in Europe are very well educated so you have selection bias here.average Americans are very illiterate when it comes to finances
therin_88@reddit
Trust me, there's plenty of Americans who aren't financially literate.
Anyway, we have the largest economy in the world and our stock market is the greatest wealth generator ever conceived by man. So it's not hard to understand why an American should be very interested in personal finance -- its what we do best in our country.
P00PooKitty@reddit
When you live in a rat race, the rats that are making it to the end are gonna be clever.
PsychologicalOne752@reddit
The average American is not very financially literate. 40% of American are not invested in the stock market. 59% of Americans cannot cover a sudden $1,000 emergency expense using savings. You likely met people whose job it is to optimize the workings of bought over companies so they are not reflective of the average American.
Individual_Umpire969@reddit
Your sample is not representative of most Americans.
That said, American companies can move pretty fast in terms of organizational and operational change in a way that can be surprising to non Americans.
GenXer845@reddit
I will never forget being the only American in a 10 person Canadian office and they couldn't believe how efficient and fast I was. They said I could do some of it in my sleep.
Historical-State-275@reddit
I know for me it was know every penny I was saving, or not survive. There were many times where it was less than $20 difference between making rent and not.
I don’t know if it’s related, but in another sub people were talking about what was considering a failed grade, and a lot of other countries seemed to have far greater allowances for pass/fail. I am sure that is very different country to country though.
Odd_Leek_1667@reddit
Unfortunately, it’s because money is worshiped here. If you work for a publicly traded company, all they care about how earnings for the next quarter are going to look, how they can beat the competition, and how to drive the stock price up.
OttoVonPlittersdorf@reddit
It's because you're overseas. They don't ship the perpetually high dude from the mailroom all that way, they send the A-listers. Believe me, we have plenty of non-sense talkers 'round here.
Gngdanielson@reddit
I came from blue collar parents who had pensions ready to go at retirement. I went the corporate route and as early as 22 I had to understand investment options. 401k, small pension, HSA,FSA, broker account, etc. I feel like our lack of a true retirement structure forces you to figure it out.
rogun64@reddit
I don't really feel like I was taught much about finance and economics. My parents didn't teach me and we had a cursory lesson on the stock market in lower schooling. I'm sure some schools teach them more, though.
I think it's just because we're independent and so understanding the market is important for success. Given that, it probably should be taught in schools more, although I actually don't think it's good that our understanding of markets determine whether we're successful or not.
glatts@reddit
To quote Wu-Tang: Cash rules everything around me, C.R.E.A.M. Get the money. Dollar, dollar bill, y’all.
But seriously, it’s because we live in a cut-throat late-stage capitalist society and we’re a very individualistic people who pride themselves on being self-reliant.
This ethos is rooted in the foundation of our country, most notably our history of settler-colonialism, the Protestant work ethic, and the pioneering spirit, which fostered a culture prioritizing self-sufficiency, personal liberty, and "the American Dream" of self-made success. These ideals have been woven into the fabric of our society since the beginning and continues to this day.
Our Founding Fathers viewed individualism and self-reliance as foundational moral and political principles, rooted in the belief that individuals possess inherent rights to life, liberty, and property. They championed a society where the government serves the person, protecting their freedom to think, act, and pursue happiness independently.
The whole transcendentalism movement carried the torch of American individualism and self-reliance. And the belief in the dignity and power of the individual, emphasizing independent thinking over societal conformity as heralded by Emerson, Thoreau, and even Emily Dickinson would go on to influence countless other voices. Robert Frost’s poetry often highlights rugged individualism, focusing on personal choice, self-reliance, and nonconformity against nature's indifference or social pressures. Maya Angelou’s individualism was rooted in profound self-love, independence, and the courage to exist unapologetically. Langston Hughes championed a distinct form of "racial individuality” and non-conformity.
Even as FDR was creating the foundational American social safety net through his New Deal programs, he sold it to the American public as a way of redefining self-reliance. Instead of opposing government aid, FDR's philosophy was that the federal government should provide the stability and "security of a livelihood" (e.g., job programs, Social Security) necessary for citizens to reclaim their own self-reliance.
With that background in mind, it leads to Americans looking out for themselves. We neither rely on nor expect assistance from others, we “know” if we want something, we must do it ourselves.
If you’re familiar with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, he posited that there are levels of human motivation, from basic survival to personal growth. The theory suggests that individuals must satisfy basic physiological and safety needs before they can pursue higher-level psychological and self-fulfillment needs, such as love and belonging, esteem, and self-actualization.
If we view this theory through the lens of American individualism and self-reliance, we believe that we are individually responsible for satisfying these needs. And how does one secure their basic physiological needs of food, shelter, and safety? Money. Therefore, understanding money and being financially savvy becomes not only necessary for our most basic needs, it’s integral if we want to live a more fulfilling life, one where we are free to pursue our passions, and our psychological and self-fulfillment needs.
So, take all of that, and put it with the background of our late-stage capitalistic society. Where our reality is that we have no social safety net. We have no employment protection. Our pay gets suppressed while the cost of living and our production continues to climb. Necessities, like food, housing, and healthcare are unaffordable unless you’re good with money.
Nothing_For_Granted@reddit
America is business first second and third with quality of life and culture a ways down the list.
Darkroomist@reddit
In the great words of WuTang Clan: Cash Rules Everything Around Me, C.R.E.A.M. Get the money, dolla dolla bill y’all.
Everything is about money here. You can not have too much. The middle class is shrinking. Those of in it are terrified of falling out. There’s no safety net. Money is the reason for everything. Hospital don’t exist to treat sick people they exist to make money. Farmers don’t grow crops to feed people they grow crops to make money. Even prisons more often than not are making people money by incarcerating citizens. The current administration is refusing to investigate child trafficking schmedophile grapists (allegedly) because they’re very wealthy. Right now more than ever in my lifetime nothing talks louder than money, not human life, not morality, human decency lost a long time ago. Jeez just the number of gambling ads I get in a day is gross and I don’t gamble.
Relevant-Emu5782@reddit
Capitalism, baby!
AmazingRefrigerator4@reddit
One word: capitalism
prisonerofrocknroll@reddit
Because we have to be, because the government and the capitalists try to screw us at every opportunity
Raibean@reddit
In my school district we all had to take an economics class in high school.
GiaStonks@reddit
I think it's because the USA basically has no real social safety net. A health emergency can cause bankruptcy and everything that goes with it. Affordable health insurance depends on having a job for the most part. If we don't find ways to maximize the few bucks we have we'd be screwed!
strongly-worded@reddit
You’re dealing with workers at an American tech giant. These are ambitious, educated, white collar workers, probably mostly white, probably mostly men. It’s a big part of that subculture to talk about money all the time. It’s not necessarily that widespread across the US outside of corporate dude world.
Gescartes@reddit
The U.S. has top productivity in two sectors: Tech and Finance, and for both we're our own biggest customer.
People point out the relatively harsh situation for retirement saving, but we also own A TON of assets compared to even other wealthy countries, and tend to have more wealth per capita.
The New Deal was built for amd through widespread asset ownership. Neoliberalism was just that aspect of it growing big enough to devour the others.
bunsyjaja@reddit
I think it’s because our government doesn’t really function and no one passes laws to protect consumers and there aren’t as many social safety nets as Europe so you have to educate yourself to survive
Glassfern@reddit
Are you sure they're American? most Americans don't have savings. I didn't know how to really budget until my mid 20s and that was when I figured out how to back calculate the salary I needed to meet all my financial goals.
Dull-Vermicelli4446@reddit
As a financially literate American, I guarantee you your new colleagues are not representative of most Americans.
JaniceRossi_in_2R@reddit
This surprises me tbh. I feel like the vast majority if people I know have zero financial knowledge. I’m pretty sure most of them have no investments/retirement plan and are probably severely in debt
limbodog@reddit
We don't. You're dealing with a small microcosm of Americans who work in tech and travel internationally for work. Not your average American.
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
For sure. The average American is a financial moron. The employees of one company are not reflective of the country as a whole.
InevitableRhubarb232@reddit
I’d say the average American is not a financial moron. They’re probably financially average. But there is a very large below average portion too.
MARSHALCOGBURN999@reddit
I love America but I have to say people here so fucking dumb with their money and then they blame it on someone else... The government.. Trump.. whoever. It doesn't matter they will keep putting their hands out
Proof-Emergency-5441@reddit
The average American is a fucking dipshit in many ways.
MyUsername2459@reddit
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
InevitableRhubarb232@reddit
You may be misunderstanding how averages work.
ACK_TRON@reddit
and yet he is comparing against foreign employees at the same company. While this is indeed a small sample size he is fair in his comparison. The same tech employees that are foreign aren’t as financially literate.
Human38562@reddit
The small and non representative sample size is the whole issue though
DoobieKaleAle@reddit
Exactly, very stupid comment imo
lunaralmanac@reddit
Economics are like minimum 80% of our federal government at this point. Pays to know.
Not literally though.
burntgreens@reddit
Growing up in America, you very much learn that money is a strategy game. If you want to do well financially, you have to become knowledgeable about real estate, savings, investments, and budget management.
Also, real estate works VERY differently here. You'll hear a lot of talk of a "starter home," which is basically how you get your foot in the door for equity building. In my case, this is how that looks:
Age 29 - bought $149k starter home with $4k down payment via a special loan (Google "FHA loan") for first-time buyers.
Age 35 - sold that home for $220k; bought a bigger home that needed work, had a larger down payment ($60k)
Age 40 (now) - buying a more expensive home closer to the city for easier commuting and better schools; will roll my equity from current house into it. Plan to own the next house for around 10 years before selling. I expect to sell for at least $100k more than what I pay and be aggressive with building equity to maximize profit.
Early 50s - kids will be out of school. Will sell that home and build my retirement home on family farmland back home (another state).
I am not a huge fan of stocks. We have some. They're never where I want them to be when I want them to be. Real estate is waaaay more reliable as an investment and has done me well, plus I have to live somewhere anyway. 2 birds, 1 stone. And we have assorted retirement accounts.
ALL THAT SAID, there are plenty of morons here with no financial literacy. There are people making huge salaries that are still digging themselves in debt each month because marketing is also very effective here.
Highly recommend reading the book The Psychology of Money.
Cinisajoy2@reddit
Not everyone has parents that teach them stuff like that. You are privileged.
burntgreens@reddit
My parents have never had a mortgage or credit card because they're poor Appalachians. They did not teach me these things, though they did make me frugal.
I just have Google and YouTube, and I look around.
Adamon24@reddit
Plenty of us aren’t
But the types of Americans who work for those companies disproportionately tend to be knowledgeable about financial issues.
Beyond that, I believe there is some evidence that our somewhat leakier social safety net encourages more interest in personal finance out of necessity. For example, the fact that we don’t have universal healthcare encourages a lot of us to learn about HSAs and FSAs.
Smolmanth@reddit
Because in you need to be, and within the group of people you are around, they have the time and access to resources to achieve that literacy.
Our retirement, healthcare, property taxes, savings are all tied to the market. We have dismantled the majority of our federal social safety nets. The individualistic rhetoric in the country promotes the idea that poverty is a moral failing. Our extreme wealth gap is not something many see as a societal problem tha can be fixed, and that is very purposeful.
duke_awapuhi@reddit
Money is basically our national religion. We talk about it. We worship it. We revolve our lives around it
Puzzleheaded_Card_71@reddit
You may have received their finance team folks in the first wave.
BuffyAnneWinchester@reddit
Because we (Americans) have nothing else to live for except the possibility of making enough money to gtfo of here. 🙃
Quadz1527@reddit
Selection bias. I assume you work a white collar job. The average white collar worker in America is on their own, they can’t afford to coast or just stick their head in the sand. Compare this to the average euro who has almost everything else taken care of for them via high taxes
StrikingDeparture432@reddit
The love of money, greed, and the inborn disease of capitalism, and the conditioned desire for instant gratification and the false belief that shiny new things being happiness...
AdvancedInstruction@reddit
A non-zero reason is because we have so many tax advantaged savings plans and accounts, that people need to keep up and be well informed in order to appropriately save for retirement. There aren't nearly as many government push mechanisms to do the job for us.
Also, when we get employer-led matched contribution plans for our retirement, we need to roll them over into new plans when we get new employers.
Also, Americans have a very complicated tax season where we have to file our taxes. That's not a thing in Europe.
We're so shaped by such a convoluted financial and savings bureaucracy that we've just become used to at all.
Nyerinchicago@reddit
Americans have no guaranteed pensions or end- of -life care and have to be awareofhaving enoughassetstoaccommodate that.,
GorgeousUnknown@reddit
We have had times when we have had to compete to keep our jobs…we’ve learned to try to know as much as possible.
Fast-Government-4366@reddit
Either you learn, or you die.
videogames_@reddit
Immigrants hustled and made money in the American dream. Lesser safety nets. Dog eat dog means you gotta know your finance more.
OdinsGhost@reddit
We live in a capitalistic hellscape. In America, you either learn finances, quickly, or you face a very serious risk of a lifetime of destitution.
ManchesterLady@reddit
This is the result of a capitalist society... plus you are in tech, which brings in a certain subset of focus and education.
Basically, you got the extreme group.
Most of the stuff about retirement and no social safety net is true, so most people who have stable jobs will have decent financial skills, but you get the freaks of nature along with it, based on the industry, and likely family history of those individuals.
Mother_Obligation_86@reddit
It is something drilled into us for generations as we all been taught how to prep for our futures. We have to as the competition is real and it can be what makes or breaks you.
strategic_hoarder@reddit
I would counter that we aren't, but you are being exposed to a segment of Americans from the tech sector who are educated, successful, and have enough disposable income to invest or save and therefore the motivation to learn about it. You're meeting employees who were good enough to put on the international team and it sounds like they're star performers.
The median American has between zero and 50k in retirement savings, heavier on the zero end, and at least several thousand dollars in credit card debt. 40% of people say they would need to sell or borrow to cover an emergency event costing more than $400.
Cinisajoy2@reddit
I looked this up earlier. The excess interest and fees people were about 3 times what I figured. Credit card debt was a bit lower.
Cinisajoy2@reddit
111 million on the credit card debt with an average of $6,500 to 8,000 balances.
EvilMrGubGub@reddit
Well because if you don't understand finance calls for her, you are doomed to be poor. This cycle is proven time and time again, people who understand how and where to make money end up doing so and those sitting still with no understanding of how accounts IRAs roths etc's work just end up grinding away at a mountain that they'll never climb
jdaddy15911@reddit
There are likely a lot of reasons. We don’t have pensions here, for the most part, or anywhere safety net anywhere near as robust as the UK. Everything is market driven. If you want to retire comfortably, you have to educate yourself on finance, and maneuver your assets to provide good returns. In the UK, you get a government pension. In the US, social security is a pittance. The bulk of your retirement income comes from annuities from your investments. You would also be much more knowledgeable about finance if your future livelihood depended on it. But educating yourself to establish your retirement often also leads to the conclusion that your regular savings could be doing much better than the 1% it earns in your savings account, and even better than the 3-4% it earns in money markets or CDs, which then leads to investing as a shorter term strategy.
Acceptable_Newt2272@reddit
If I am not absolutely perfect with my money and budget, I will be out of money and not be able to eat. I only have a month of expenses in an emergency fund, which is a lot more than a lot of Americans have. My friend with 4 kids and a wife had $50 to live off of for last week until he got paid. So many Americans live paycheck to paycheck they have no choice but to be financially literate to even be able to do that.
humsterdaddy@reddit
I think it really depends on yourself seeking out that information here. It’s definitely not taught in schools. For me living in a country where we’re constantly scammed by different industries (healthcare, banking, retail, you name it) was enough of a push to learn how to keep my money in my own pockets and how to utilize different resources to grow that money. Seriously, everywhere you turn here there’s some tactic to take your money and a majority of us already don’t make enough to live comfortably.
RockShrimp@reddit
because money is our civic religion
Holden_Makock@reddit
Just plain old pure capitalism.
We always knew there is no one to come save us. So all the decisions we made were to maximize profits/earninings. There is no handouts, there is no free healtcare, there is honestly no other investment option apart from stocks, so you learn it in everyday life.
Tech is USA's bread and butter and Tech cares about Money more than technology itself.
Ok-Process7612@reddit
Just look at the founding families for your answer.
America was built on the desire for financial gain.
English merchants and joint-stock companies, not pilgrims or settlers, were the primary founders of America, driven by profit motives to establish colonies for resources like fish, furs, and tobacco.
These investors aimed to diversify markets during economic crises, establishing ventures such as the Plymouth and London Companies.
The primary goal was economic gain, not religious freedom. The Pilgrims' voyage, for example, was a funded venture backed by 70 investors.
Colonies such as Virginia (1607) and Plymouth (1620) were initially run as for-profit ventures.
The English used mercantilism to turn American colonies into sources of raw materials and markets for finished goods.
It just so happened at the time that Puritanism was on the rise in Europe. It was considered an affront to the Church of England, and Puritans were losing political power.
Thus the myth that America was built on the desire for religious freedom. No.
Wealthy merchants who were Puritans were being hampered in their attempts to increase their wealth in Europe. Thus, the American experiment.
void_method@reddit
Because we're used to being squeezed like a stone for blood.
Then-Horror2238@reddit
Because our country is out to get the vast majority of us instead of making things simple lmao
Crylec@reddit
Budgeting is drilled into our heads. Because nothing taken for granted and we have like no safety nets cuz our government hates us.
Due-Introduction-760@reddit
We have no social safety nets, and money = life.
Somewho_10@reddit
Maybe because our survival depends on it. I am not advocating for our system as it is today because it needs work. It leaves many folks without pensions, job security, and barely affording homes or health care. Smart folks try to navigate this as best they can. Financial literacy is key.
Astrobratt@reddit
because money is our god
mxyzsptlk@reddit
In elementary school I had a stock market assignment with a set amount of “money” and we “bought” stocks on the actual exchange and tracked our profits and losses over time. Later in school I had a class where you get a random income from the hat and then family size and have to do a budget. I guess we are taught more because our social safety nets are bad to non-existent. It wouldn’t matter so much if we had real healthcare and less of a consumption based capitalist society where saving isn’t as important as grinding for profits to make sure you don’t look poor while also hoping that you or a family member don’t get sick bankrupting you.
rdubmu@reddit
Americans are some of the hardest working people on earth. It’s one of the reasons why our GDP is so high. We are a land of immigrants with barely any safety nets. We work efficiency so that we can add other stuff to our plates. It’s wired in us.
Now for Americans working abroad, these are professionals, who usually are top performers, and or highly educated or specialist. - these people are either educated or street smart (learning from experience) there are plenty of professionals with just a high school diploma or a GED.
electric29@reddit
The ones you are meeting are far from average. They are more educated and probably more open to learning new things than the average.
Besides, if our average citizens were financially literate, we would not have the terrible figures we do for retirement savings, credit card debt, loan defaults...
chainmailler2001@reddit
Gotta be able to pay those hospital bills somehow...
SnooCompliments6210@reddit
This goes back to our "Yankee" heritage. Even in the 19th century, Americans were known for their economic acumen, going all over the world trading things.
Late in the 19th century, you see this as a unique institution to the Anglo-Saxon world: the publicly held corporation that is basically controlled by its managers, not its owners. They more or less don't exist in this form anywhere else in the world, where you have profit-maximizing managers running huge organizations. In Europe, the big organizations are still either family-run or expressly or tacitly controlled by the government.
Val-E-Girl@reddit
I used to work for a German company here in the US. All new ideas were piloted on us because we were able to adapt and pivot quickly compared to those in Europe. I think it's our hustle culture where you adapt or die on the vine.
For our financial literacy, it's capitalism. We are part of the machine, but we also learn how to make the machine work for us with investments, because social security in our elder years isn't much, so we create our own safetynet.
Defiant_Network7916@reddit
Financialization and repeal of Glass-Steagal. Most Americans now don't have pension plans, they have 401ks, IRAs, etc.
la_vida_loca_mindset@reddit
You’re giving us far too much credit lol
killroy1971@reddit
I'm confused. The title of your post is opposite of the text.
In truth, financial literacy is a mixed bag.
Some are literate in that they made solid investments, managed to stay employed and increase their paycheck earnings that allowed them to gain the $1M plus invested wealth you need to be old in the United States. Others own a home that their older selves won't care for, but they count that decaying house as part of their wealth. But it's wealth you can't spend. In reality, they have little spendable wealth. Then there are those who've been working that same job with little in the way of raises for decades and they are the most clueless when it comes to retirement. In fact they years to work until they die. Like it's some sort of American badge of honor. Finally, they are those who work multiple jobs, never amassed much in wealth and never invested. They were employed, unemployed, up and down. They will have a tough old age. They also assume they will work until death, as they don't have another choice. But they also yearn for work. A dream of labor.
The people you met are a small slice of the American people. I'd visit and get to meet more of us.
darkshaoran@reddit
You're getting the ones who made it far enough to get relocated. The average American knows enough to survive but plenty of us are just winging it with a 401k and hoping for the best. We have to learn because nobody else is gonna catch us if we fall.
JurisUrsus@reddit
My mom emphasized the importance of investing from an early age; my dad double majored in economics and enjoys talking about it. So, it started at home for me.
And yes, thanks for asking a positive quesiton.
HughJManschitt@reddit
What a surprising post. Awesome. I don’t have a good answer just wanted to say thanks.
doublenostril@reddit
Because our government doesn’t take care of us. That’s not a dig at Europe; I wish the U.S. cared about the well-being of its citizens. But our “pensions” are stock portfolios. In capitalism, we trust.
Cinisajoy2@reddit
The finance culture is not huge here. Let me give you the other side of the coin.
There are over 11,000 pawn shops in the US. To say it is a billion dollar industry is an understatement. About 30 million people get loans.
There are more payday loan places than pawn shops even though they are banned in 18 states. Another billion dollar industry. 12 million people use these places.
Next we have about the same amount of check cashing places for those that can't/won't/are overdrawn at use banks. Another billion dollar industry. This is also 30 million people.
Those people probably overlap.
Now let's talk about credit card debt which is over $1.28 trillion. Of the 258 million adults in the US, 111 million have credit card debt.
Then you have the money lending apps which I figure are similar to payday loans.
Now Reddit probably skews to the more financially smart.
OddGuarantee4061@reddit
Because we have little to no support from our government, unlike other nations. If we don’t learn to plan, we don’t get things like healthcare and retirement.
zgillet@reddit
When even the companies that handle your money are trying to gouge you, you have to stay on top of everything to not go broke.
Every person, place, and thing in the US is trying to take your money for as little effort as possible.
Frosty_Piece7098@reddit
Because in America, our goal is to make money. In Europe your social standing had to do with birth but here its based your economic standing.
This is also why compared to Europe we have terrible work life balance but make significantly more.
Arsenal8944@reddit
Finance is the language of capitalism. Who else would know more then us?
Greencheezy@reddit
Because living in the US basically requires you to be at least a bit financially literate or else you'll easily become homeless and starve to death
ericbythebay@reddit
If your coworkers are working at an American tech giant, then you most likely aren’t dealing average Americans. You are dealing with tech industry Americans and they are measured by making progress on the things they are tasked with working on.
Cinisajoy2@reddit
I think it is the specific set of people you know because at least 50% of the American population are in debt.
SueNYC1966@reddit
They start teaching them about stocks in elementary school with fake accounts and the class that runs at the end of the school year gets a pizza party.
ArtemisQuil@reddit
This doesn’t answer the entire financial literacy question, but part of it is American culture places a lot of importance on efficiency.
We’re very fast-paced, especially in the north, and don’t tend to have much patience for things we perceive as wasting time. With that in mind, it’s not too much of a surprise a lot of Americans bring the same mindset they use for managing time to managing their money.
Level-Brain-4786@reddit
Interesting. I’m also from Europe, kind of. And once I moved to America my experience has been the direct opposite.
FaithlessnessRich490@reddit
We are all millionaires in waiting.
Melinoe2016@reddit
I think your selection is biased and the people that work for this company do not represent the actual average American. Look at average consumer debt here to see how financially illiterate most are.
AlarmedRaccoon619@reddit
With all due respect, isn't this obvious? We've been the bastion of free market capitalism for the past 100 years while much of the rest of the world experimented with other economic and political systems. Of course we know more about finance, our retirements depend on us knowing about finance.
myOEburner@reddit
We are not dependant upon government pensions for our well being in old age. We much prefer to manage our own futures and investing our own money is the best way to do that, and it also enables your average worker to retire a millionaire (or multi-millionaire) with routine saving over their working life. As such, we learn more than a person who has a government managed plan and doesn't deal with investment matters. It's just exposure to the topic. You can do this too! It's never to late to start. I guarantee that you can find a new coworker or manager to explain the basics and provide you resources to learn how to invest and build wealth! I love discussing it with coworkers because it gives them the knowledge to go become rich!
OYSW@reddit
I suspect it’s less about average Americans, and more about the well educated business professionals who receive overseas positions. I had the same experience in reverse when my large US based company was purchased by an even larger Italian conglomerate. The young Italian MBAs who relocated to our US HQ were extremely impressive.
cult_of_me@reddit
It's an immigrant country. The only glue keeping the whole thing together is love of money.
SatisfactionBulky717@reddit
It varies greatly here among who you are interacting with. If you go rural, they tend to be shrewd negotiators for their farm products but not interact with the stock market. Any business adjacent to the the financial markets will naturally have people more savvy, interested, and invested into those markets.
America is a big place and we aren't all as literate in finance speak as others, I'm not.
Acceptable-Peace-69@reddit
The Americans coming over will be almost universally among the top 20% of income earners and college educated. You aren’t getting a representative sample of American financial literacy.
If Americans were truly financially literate they wouldn’t have elected someone that thinks tariffs are paid by the exporters and we’d have some form of universal healthcare.
GrouchyMushroom3828@reddit
If you fail in the USA chances of becoming homeless with no safety nets are high. Also no health insurance so you pretty much die. Generally speaking.
trikakeep@reddit
Because it’s not taught in schools.
moretequillalessjoe@reddit
Money is so much a part of our culture, you chase it, you have to navigate the system. You have to know it. Life forces you to figure out how to maximize value and our politics are charged recently and people are more involved in knowing about it whereas in other countries they might focus on other values. I hold the belief that every American is doing themselves a disservice if they don't at least know and if possible invest in the stock market.
Apart_Insect_8859@reddit
I think it is a combination of the general education requirements in university, so we are exposed to a wider variety of topics, and a lack of business contracts for employees, which means there is a higher degree of career and task mobility within a company. A major way to stand out and climb to higher positions is by being savvy about budgets and finance.
Acceptable-Peace-69@reddit
Because your company isn’t sending over plumbers, farm hands and retail workers.
Professional_Tie5788@reddit
Your experience isn’t typical of all Americans. I would say the Americans that a giant tech company is sending overseas as part of an acquisition, are going to be smarter and harder working than the average. American corporate culture is definitely built on efficiency and hard work. Successful companies will employ successful people. Glad you are getting a good impression.
Any_Tea_7845@reddit
this is absolutely not the norm
the average american is extremely financially illiterate, among the worst in the world
Dependent_Bit7825@reddit
One reason I didn't see here is that there are sharks and fraudsters everywhere, some illegal, but many very legal. If you don't have your guard up, you will get taken advantage of sooner or later.
Suppafly@reddit
We don't have social safety nets here, if you run out of money you starve to death on the streets. Europeans by and large don't have that issue.
Chulbiski@reddit
IMO, it's a matter of survival here in US.
tbodillia@reddit
Maybe you are talking to the wrong people. Rates for financially literacy in the US are under 50%.
purplegrog@reddit
As a middle aged American, the idea that my compatriots are financially more literate than Europeans makes me terrified for Europe.
Comfortable-Bike9080@reddit
I have seen so many people having liabilities which amount way more than their annum salary..
Important_Letterhead@reddit
Forced to hustle to survive
Okcoolthatsgreat@reddit
In America being poor is lowkey a death sentence
BookLuvr7@reddit
Consumer Economics was required to pass high school where I went to school. It taught everything from building a credit score to investing, buying a car or house, whether warranties were worth it, how to budget and write a check in case our landlords ever wanted an old school paper trail etc.
ColdHardPocketChange@reddit
Americans know that the pathway to wealth is not going to come in the form of a regular paycheck. Many of us understand that money is a tool that can multiply itself if you have more then enough to cover your living expenses.
mololab@reddit
I think you are looking at a skewed sample because I’d say most Americans are more financially illiterate. Those that are literate though, I would say is due to the fact that there are no social safety nets in America and we are on our own in a sense.
thegabster2000@reddit
Our culture makes us more responsible about handling money. We don't pay as much in taxes compared to Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Europe so with the extra money we have, we gotta see what goes into insurance, cars, university.
purpleblazed@reddit
We don’t have a real social safety net for retirement. You need to have a grasp of your finances and investment to be able to retire eventually. Plus I’m sure the people that are working internationally with you are a bit of a unique subgroup of folks who really have their act together.
suzemagooey@reddit
That's only a segment of Americans. Many are woefully ignorant and even those who are appear knowledgable about personal finances can be clueless on the national economics or even economic systems like capitalism.
Extra_Routine_6603@reddit
Depends alot on family and upbringing but the mentality of pull yourself up and get to work plays a big part in it. For most part you're responsible for your success or failure here sure luck both good and bad plays a part but for the most part if you're smart with your money and work hard 9/10 times at least you will be ahead of where you started.
Ok-uncultured-human@reddit
This is interesting to me because within the USA, the current rhetoric is our society is financially illiterate. Our school system does not teach us about financies or get us ready for the real world. I love this post because as an immigrant here than went to school, I think the education here is enough. People always talk about how amazing European countries education systems are, yet they see us as more financially literate.
Interesting contradiction here
Charlesinrichmond@reddit
Huh. I would not have guessed, we generally think of the average American as financially illiterate.
That said, the kind of people who are going to be transferred to Europe are going to be upper middle class, financially literate, and that's actually pretty high.
I think we are just a much more financially aware country as a culture.
pdx321pdx@reddit
It has value for us in our lives and careers. We retire on our investments, not pensions. Similarly Americans are always amazed by the fact that many Europeans speak multiple languages. Being multi-lingual has much more value in Europe than it does in America. Knowing how to speak French or German doesn’t really help you in the US.
Born_Database5650@reddit
You can't survive in this country if you don't know it. You will always be behind
KlutzySites@reddit
We have to be if we want any chance of retiring
Joel_feila@reddit
You're probably not seeing average Americans. Moat people will not be pucked to go handle an over seas merger. The ones that are picked will know more about how the business works.
Kevbro9@reddit
You're probably seeing a selection bias because those are all employees that managed to get hired by a giant tech firm. In my personal experience the average American doesn't know THAT much about finance. They might have a 401k, but they don't really understand how it works. Just that it does
Churlish_Performer@reddit
I don't think average Americans know jack shit about the economy itself honestly. College educated people? Some do yeah, not all. It's very normal here to save a bachelor's or an associates and both require econ to graduate. Beyond that, in the realm of Personal finance - we ALL have to walk to school, uphill both ways and learn that shit ourselves. We talk amongst ourselves to beef up and do things better because there's always another huckster looking to fuck you over.
Karm0112@reddit
Less safety nets, higher ceilings for wealth. I grew up with the idea that hard work will pay off and lead to higher salaries and a better life (not sure if people feel that way as much anymore).
I would say the average American has financial literacy, but doesn’t always have self control to practice it. Like you understand, that buying a 60k car on a 60k salary is not a good idea, but you do it anyway.
Amockdfw89@reddit
Americans are generally expected to be out on our own and independent at a relatively young age.
RobinFarmwoman@reddit
The government isn't going to take care of you, so you have to have a long-term plan for taking care of yourself. If you can't manage money, you're not going to be able to do that. Any of us who grew up in relatively middle class or more privileged households had this beaten into our heads from early childhood.
thirstposting69@reddit
It’s not universal, I’ve had to explain to plenty of adults how progressive tax brackets work. Some people believe you can earn less after getting a raise if you go up a tax bracket.
Anthrodiva@reddit
Because we have been abandoned by our institutions, forced to navigate crazy healthcare costs, education costs, demise of pensions, and learn to dodge constant scams, just to save up a few pennies for the inevitable day one becomes too disabled to work and need long term care and support.
It's great!
AnAntsyHalfling@reddit
Because if we don't know a lot about personal finance, we'd lose everything if we ever lost our job or needed to go to the doctor.
StrengthFew9197@reddit
Capitalism with a big C
MiniatureGiant18@reddit
It seems we are either very knowledgeable of finance or (like my sister) completely ignorant of it. Most of her pay goes to cover interest and late fees. I haven’t owed a late fee since movie rentals stop being a thing…
Agitated_Reveal_6211@reddit
In an overly capitalistic society, you have to ask, was this on purpose?
Leather_Rate_9785@reddit
We make money or we end up homeless. We're trying to put back enough money so we can retire someday. I think it's mostly a survival mechanism.
elegoomba@reddit
Margot Robbie in a bathtub, mostly
Uffda01@reddit
because we have so few safety nets; we have to manage our own retirement, 401k, insurance everything... and its sink or swim. Folks in a corporate environment are much more likely to be able to handle those conversations - not every worker trying to get by will understand that.
ImportantGuitarr@reddit
Youre dealing with the 2% sub group of the Americans. Most people arent financially literate
420catloveredm@reddit
I don’t think Americans as a whole are very financially literate.
alwaysboopthesnoot@reddit
Labor protections and job stability longterm aren’t as robust here; nor are social safety nets. Want to retire before you drop dead in the traces?
You do, or you die. Figuratively and literally.
Make it last, wear it out, make it work, or do without. That’s a motto I grew up with, and it’s something that many of us were taught in our home, school or work settings from the time we were little.
Not true of everyone of course, but many of us are used to it. Pinch pennies. Magic the money out of nowhere. Find the crack in the armor. Work, wheedle and whine. Get blood from turnips. Show up and sign in, whether sick, tired, grieving, or dead.
It usually leads to high levels of self discipline, self reliance, but also to competition and score keeping. Which often enough leads to meticulous planning, accounting and record keeping, comparisons. A desire and drive to succeed.
That, and any business or management training you’ll receive here, always hits data analytics and competitiveness to survive, pretty hard. Our system typically champions profits over people. Efficiency, over environment or ethics. Over comfort. Capitalism is king, and it’s a game that must be played and played well by everyone—not just by its biggest players.
KulshanStudios@reddit
America is a money culture focused on The Grind and The Hustle. And our tax system is fiendishly complex. And lacking a social safety net, everyone either has to be financially literate and be patched in to tax laws and loopholes to both pay as little in taxes as possible, and find ways to squeeze an extra dollar out of transactions.
When I was in GE 3 years ago visiting my GF, we were hanging out with one of her friends, and he was thinking about selling a piece of land he inherited. I asked him why instead of selling it, he didn't try to reach out to a commercial developer or some such thing, to see if some company would want to lease the land from him to build a factory or apartment complex or something on. Cause as I see it, you sell the land, the cash comes in, but it's one and done. You lease/rent it, and that money trickles in forever, usually at exactly the time when you need the extra cash the most.
I have relatives in the US that have done that sort of thing, and it worked out well for everyone on both sides of the transaction
He had never even considered the idea of leasing. I think he sold it in the end, but even the idea of renting/leasing was totally new to him, and that kinda seems to me to be a fundamental difference in attitudes about making money between the US and Europe
I grew up around people who understand that a lot of money at once is nice, but a little money constantly without having to clock in for it is magnitudes better. It's the way my own business operates, and my GF is both amazed and puzzled by it
Podwitchers@reddit
We have crappy social safety nets so it’s sink or swim.
WriteByTheSea@reddit
When you don’t have the same degree of social safety nets, you learn this stuff or you live miserably.
Americans learn about money and budgeting because they have to.
pythiadelphine@reddit
Because no one is able to help us if something goes wrong. Econ is a mandatory subject in most states in order to try and indoctrinate us into being against socialism. (Source: high school social studies teacher)
GamerDadofAntiquity@reddit
Because in Corpo-Capitalist America, as an adult you either learn finance or you die. That is all.
Significant_Base_125@reddit
Mostly because the govt Dept of Education is a joke.
sean8877@reddit
Wish I was like that, I'm not very financially literate. Not all of us have that knowledge.
vt2022cam@reddit
Maybe- but you’re really still looking at a relatively well educated and elite part of the US population.
let-it-rain-sunshine@reddit
Because if you don't mind your money, someone smarter is gonna grift you for it. ;)
laughswagger@reddit
Americans have no other god above capitalism. And we are faithful and know our stuff well.
All of these operate by market principles: healthcare industry, the nonprofit (charity) industry, even the State.
Even if you study the history of religious proselytizing in this country, preachers have been emulating business marketing practices for 2 centuries.
Carlpanzram1916@reddit
We pay for alot of things out of pocket that most European countries have wrapped into social programs. Social security isn’t sufficient for most Americans so we need some kind of pension or nest egg. College is expensive and largely out-of-pocket so we have to have a college fund for our kids. A medical emergency will cost a few thousand dollars even with good insurance.
So yeah, we kind of have to understand finance if we don’t want to run out of money when we get old and die in poverty.
Technical-Bit-4801@reddit
When I saw OP’s post my first thought was: who’s going to tell them about Caleb Hammer’s channel? 🤣
Also, as an American working in tech (and one of the very few in my family who went that route), I cosign everything else you said.
warmvegetables@reddit
I mean, you’re not getting the average gas station worker (no shade, I was one once) in these situations. A tech company going international is going to have educated/informed/experienced people. I work in tech and my company is a pressure cooker. It’s a relentless machine of growth, data, and speed where leadership is anything but patient. Everyone is expected to be informed and contribute to our evolution.
All of that coupled with annual review processes designed to keep you down and the continuous threat of layoffs; even if we had time to relax and chat, we don’t have the energy for it anymore.
NobleCWolf@reddit
Because to perpetuate a wage slave system, its best not to educate the slaves and make them aware that what they're taught in school, is largely bullshit. Simple.
Late-External3249@reddit
To put it in a vastly oversimplified way, the folks you meet in a large corporation tend to be more successful types that are more interested in finance.
I grew up in a rather poor, rural area and many folks didn't have an ounce of financial literacy. My high school had a mandatory course that covered the basics, but lots of kids didn't pay attention. They stayed around that town and worked crap jobs or went on welfare.
Apprehensive-Pin518@reddit
when you have to make every penny count to survive you become knowledgeable real quick.
D3ltaM1ke@reddit
Because we’ve been fooled into thinking that if we just control our budget and spending then we’ll earn a middle class lifestyle. Meanwhile the companies we work for funnel profit to the shareholders rather than the employees who do the work. European companies spread revenue more efficiently and you don’t have CEOs making thousands of times more than the lowest-paid employee. I’m sure you’d be a bit more stressed about money if your governments and companies were coordinating stripping away your wealth.
SquirrelBowl@reddit
We’re obsessive with money. With an individualistic attitude grained into our heads from a young age, we’re taught that we’re on our own. The social safety net here is pretty much nonexistent. And until recently it was uncommon to live with your family past 18/20 years old.
So basically we have to be
Bluemonogi@reddit
I think plenty of average Americans are not more financially literate than people of Europe.
I’m not. I have never sat around talking about finances with my friends. No one is bringing up stocks. I know basics of budgeting but that is pretty much it.
Outlaw_Josie_Snails@reddit
Are you GenX?
In the US, it is interesting to see how younger Millennials and Gen Z are involved with investing and the stock market. I have heard my niece and her friends actively talk about making sure they have enough for retirement!? That is kind of wild to hear.
Millennials and Gen Z have been told from day one that Social Security is a 'maybe' and pensions are extinct. They view investing not as a hobby, but as a mandatory survival tactic.
These generations came of age during the 2008 recession and the COVID-19 pandemic. Seeing 'stable' systems fail made them realize that they are the only ones responsible for their financial future.
Ironically, the inability to afford a house has driven some younger people into the stock market. If a 25-year-old feels like they’ll never save $100k for a down payment on a house in this market, they might instead put $500 a month into ETFs. It’s a way to feel like they are building some kind of equity even if they are still renting.
As a Gen Xer, there was still a lingering sense of institutional stability. You might not have had a pension, but the 'Social Security will be there' narrative was stronger. Now people are having to take early hardship withdrawals from their 401(k)s due to layoffs and the economy. Many Gen Xers don't have other investments.
StardogChamp@reddit
We have to take care of ourselves. Daddy takes care of everything for you in Europe
pinback77@reddit
When you have a country of 340 million people, you'll find people who are good at anything. But yes, financial literacy really helps one get by in the USA.
idredd@reddit
lafigueroar@reddit
you have to know your finance, no one is coming to save you (you are on your own).
Pretend_Quote@reddit
It really depends on your socioeconomic background. I am an American living in France and I was raised lower middle class and didn’t have much financial knowledge. I had student loans with high interest rates and didn’t know how to budget and getting paid once a month was a struggle at first. If you don’t have parents who can pass along the knowledge you won’t have it. I learned nothing in school about personal finance or stocks.
Tabitheriel@reddit
You are seeing a selct group. The only Americans who will be sent overseas to oversee a company takeover are the TOP people. The average idiot employeee won't be sent overseas.
It's like when I met international students while studying at NYU and City College. They all were totally brilliant. I wondered why European and Asian students were so smart, until I went overseas and met all of the stupid drunks and yobs hanging around the train stations in Frankfurt or London. LOL
KnotUndone@reddit
American capitalism is a religion. We are trained from a young age to be compliant, useful coggs in the wheel of the capitalist machine. Part of that is learning the language and the rituals. Unironically, quite a bit of the common knowledge about personal finance is bullshit but it sounds good. Our corporate overlords have to keep us convinced that if we work harder and smarter we can be rich too. The few who are rich are held up like saints to emulate. Sure, it sounds impressive but most of us are drowning in financial purgatory. How can you plan your retirement when a single health incident can bankrupt you? You are shamed like a sinner when it all falls apart. Don't be fooled by the blah blah blah. You talk nonsense with people because you are not anxious about your financial position every minute of every day. Enjoy your freedom to be a human being not defined by servitude to the false god of money.
Wyndeward@reddit
You're not getting a representative sample of Americans. You're getting American businesspeople, who have been "doing more with less" for about two generations at this point.
It isn't that we're all MBA's -- there is no shortage of financially illiterate folks here in the state... they just don't run businesses, at least not for long.
Instead, we elect them to high offices
LetterheadClassic306@reddit
it's kind of baked into the culture here since we don't have the same social safety nets. you have to plan for retirement yourself. most people start with a 401k through work. i got into stocks a few years ago and started with a beginner investing app that breaks down everything simply. it made learning about etfs and dividends way less intimidating. once you see your money growing it's hard not to keep learning more.
iampatmanbeyond@reddit
Our two main political parties from the beginning until now have always been about which slightly different economic system will grow the economy faster. If you dont measure up your party get smoked in the next election
adobo_bobo@reddit
They don't. They're just repeating things some youtuber told them. Same thing during the crypto phase, but now they moved to actual stocks now.
Bear_necessities96@reddit
Capitalism
Major_Spite7184@reddit
We have to be. In America there is no legitimate safety net for someone middle class going through hardship. If one isn’t gifted a financial windfall as a setup for adulthood, one must figure it out along the way. It’s a racket like any other, and it doesn’t like you. To me it’s no different than studying tactics to obtain an advantage.
confidentfreeloved@reddit
I think it’s education and having a smallish financial safety net. This creates cultural norms where Americans are knowledgeable about these topics.
For example, retirement is primarily the responsibility of the individual. Social Security just isn’t enough if you want to live well in retirement.
I teach high school economics. It’s required!
Felixus_Maximus@reddit
Lol this reads like some kind of bot. Basically no one living in Europe would say "here in Europe". A country or region would be specified, not just "Europe". If there is anything Europeans hate is when a single place in a single country is generalized across the continent.
rez_at_dorsia@reddit
If you came over here for a while you would probably quickly change your tune, most of the people I see day to day are completely financially illiterate and are in debt up to their eyeballs with a new car they pay $1k/mo for, zero retirement, pile credit card debt every month, use pay-later apps like Klarna to finance purchases like clothes, headphones, furniture, etc. and don’t even understand what it’s doing to them long term.
RagingKERES@reddit
I'm not gonna read all 500 comments so this may have been said already. The US is a financial hell scape. If you make 200k you're good but anything less with a family and you have to budget. There was a recent study done on child care that determined that households that make 400k or over are the only ones who can comfortably afford child daycare.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/child-care-costs-average-salary-study-shows/
On top of that, we don't teach finance in schools. We learn the hard way. If you are smart enough to learn about personal finance you are more likely to be the "send over seas" individual vs. the "i have two or three jobs" individual. No hate on the lateral, finance is fucking hard. Especially in America.
BlueJeanFoneCase@reddit
When they send people to work in Europe, it costs lots of money. They send only the best and brightest, ones who have proved they are at the top of the game, it's more cost efficient!. They were SENT there to make changes, implement their company standards and get an operating system set up as quickly as possible and get home. Every day is costing hotel and food charges.
They leave the casual, chat about nonsense folks here in America!
Misplaced-Redittor@reddit
If you don’t understand investing / investments in America you don’t get to retire. Plus maybe a bit of selection bias with who you deal with across the pond compared to your true average American.
355822@reddit
Because we are forced to fight for every penny.
InspectionFine9655@reddit
Seems like you’re dealing with Americans who understand their job.
You don’t get a bunch of Americans picked at random.
tyoung89@reddit
This is just a guess, but perhaps without the robust social safety net that is common in Europe, Americans are forced to plan for it themselves. Knowing that if you don’t, you’ll have to live off just Social Security when you retire. This scares many people into saving and investing, and investing requires knowledge of the market and methods, as well as the laws and loopholes that make many types of investment accounts more favorable for tax purposes.
BlueFeathered1@reddit
We have to be to survive at all.
heckfyre@reddit
America has no exports or industries other than finance and service. The only things we make are fake money and comfortable spaces for living and working.
Human_Copy_4355@reddit
Because we have to be, I think. We have to know what to do with a 401k-- Roth or traditional? HSA vs FSA. We may not get any money from the government when we're too old to work. We're watching our government take benefits away from disabled people. We have no guaranteed maternity benefits and childcare is very expensive here.
sgtm7@reddit
Since the gradual change of fixed pensions to 401K retirement funds, people have started to learn more about investing. Even in the government sector they have added the TSP(similar to a 401K) to the standard fixed pension plan.
rnoyfb@reddit
I think part of this is that your sample is people who get sent abroad for work. They’re better off than most people
Mobile-Mousse-8265@reddit
Lack of social safety nets. Our health insurance is tied to our jobs and then if you want to retire before 65 you have to be prepared to spend thousands a month on health insurance and than thousands more if you need to use it. We have also been told not to expect social security.
normalgirl124@reddit
Our society has a sick obsession with money
megamanx4321@reddit
Everything here is expensive. You have to know how to maximize your spending power just to be able to survive.
jetpack_weasel@reddit
This is just a guess, but American culture celebrates individual ambition - particularly when it comes to careers. The myth of the 'American Dream' - that anyone can be 'successful' (defined as having a lot of money) if they just work hard - permeates our society. The primary form of success that society recognizes is the acquisition of wealth. American culture treats wealth as a virtue, or at minimum as a sign of virtue - someone who is wealthy must be smart and hard-working and make good decisions, or they wouldn't have all that money.
The other side of that is that all this individualism has allowed for the weakening of the social safety net. The only way to be safe - from illness, injury, homelessness, hunger, exploitative landlords and bosses - is to have enough money. Money for good insurance, for housing, and eventually for retirement. America treats poor people very badly for such a wealthy nation, and believes they deserve it because they just weren't smart enough and didn't work hard enough to not be poor.
So financial literacy is both taught as a virtue and as a necessity for survival, across all socioeconomic classes - the poor need it if they're going to have any shot at escaping poverty. The middle class need it so they can try to stay in the middle class and eventually retire. And the wealthy need it as a marker of social status - you can't socialize with other rich people unless you can act somewhat knowledgeable about money.
DIYPeace@reddit
It’s a confluence of factors ranging from social safety nets, the prominence of the private sector, college education, and a more-individualist society focused on getting ahead.
(Relative) Lack of social safety nets, private sector shifting burdens (from pensions to retirement investment plans), typical liberal arts college education (US vs European degrees as it requires a few general education courses unrelated to the specific degree), rise of fintech, and hyper-individualism fixated on hustle and success.
Esmer_Tina@reddit
Late stage capitalism. You have to be competent at personal finance just to be middle class.
pubesinourteeth@reddit
I remember seeing some Europeans say that they don't even know what their friends jobs are. It's Americans are so obsessed with work. And everyone expects that you want to move up in the company so you're supposed to know what's going on even in other departments.
Hello_Hangnail@reddit
Some people pay more attention when there's no safety net to catch them when they fall
CamelTheFurryGamer@reddit
The Great Depression into WW1, the cautious rebuilding after that into WW2, decades of being the world police and protecting sealanes for other nation while we just accepted no Healthcare and a "bust yo ass" mentality that drove our workforce to excess...
And you wonder why we're hardworking, no fucks giving idiots with no Healthcare... We were kinda built this way by necessity.
Want a boat, we can make that. Want Healthcare, we're too busy making shit that moves dirt and ends lives to care about that. We're not a complicated people, read some history books and you can easily see why we're this way.
diversalarums@reddit
I'm not in finance, but I suspect it's partially because those American employees were deliberately chosen for their background in finance and business. They're not.just random people.
iamthefluffyyeti@reddit
Because our country and economic system fuck you if you aren’t (and they still do even if you are)
phenomenomnom@reddit
How is this not selection bias?
Every Indian person whom I've met teaching high school in small-town USA speaks some English. Why do all Indian people speak English?
LeisureSuiteLarry@reddit
In ninth grade I was taught how to write a check. That was the extent of my financial learning until I learned how to budget when I was 25, and even then I didn’t really learn anything about money until I went to grad school.
2Beer_Sillies@reddit
It’s in our DNA and what the country was founded on. Individualism and desire to succeed. That’s why we’re richer than European countries in median income (adjusted for purchasing power).
thatlookslikemydog@reddit
We have to figure out how our healthcare system works. After that, compounding interest and budgeting is a piece of cake.
N2Shooter@reddit
Because we have a very fragile financial safety net. If you don't take care of yourself, you'll be on your way to homelessness.
Salt-Amoeba7331@reddit
We have no real safety net, that’s why!
adyingmoderate@reddit
Americans understand very little about economics. If Americans understood economics we wouldn’t have voted for Trump due to Covid 19 caused inflation, the fact that every global election prior also ousted their majority party for the same reason, is just an example that world has low economic literacy.
Americans may have a better understanding of personal finance due to systemic and cultural differences, but again know very little about finance as a whole.
Source: BS Economics MS Finance.
crek42@reddit
If you understood economics you’d know how little power the president on his own has own the country’s economy. Not a Trump supporter either.
adyingmoderate@reddit
I didn’t say ANYTHING about that, and given that Congress has ceded power to the Executive Branch over the last year, Trump has had unprecedented control over the economy compared to other presidents.
The comment you are replying to stated WHY people voted for him, which given both surveys and the outcomes of other elections in the world, is a pretty softball take and one that is easily defended. Apparently I need to add English literacy to the list, which is pathetic for predominantly monolingual speakers.
Glum-Welder1704@reddit
If true, I would attribute it to our government and our corporations unending greed. Around every corner is a new tax, and every corporation spends millions trying to figure out how to provide less service for more money. The endless raid on our assets is quite educational.
Killahdanks1@reddit
We live in one of the most financially competitive and complex systems in the modern world. Trust me, well over 60-70% of the population probably isn’t. But if you’re dealing with well compensated people, or even just people who have a decent paying job worth holding we’re on it. We work hard. We equate effort and time in with output. It’s not always accurate, but someone’s gotta put in the hours.
Then combine that with a credit culture, car loans, 401ks, IRA, having to file taxes, high rate of homeownership, and our Wall Street driven culture it’s critical for survival
That being said, as mentioned before plenty of people have no clue.
Cute_Marzipan_4116@reddit
Have you seen how financially retarded are political leaders are? We’re $39 Trillion that’s 12 zeros in debt.
Worst-Eh-Sure@reddit
There are plenty that have no clue whatsoever but think they are very knowledgeable. Like my in laws.
mikelgan@reddit
Because we’re greedy as fuck.
mysteronsss@reddit
So used to seeing European people bash Americans…. the word “illiterate” was the first thing I read. Didn’t even think to re-read til I saw the comments. 😅
bananapanqueques@reddit
It’s hard to live comfortably here if you aren’t rich or financially literate. We learn out of necessity.
Unclerojelio@reddit
It’s because our taxes are so complicated. It forces you to have an understanding of all kinds of financial issues.
djmcfuzzyduck@reddit
We’re barely literate literate now you want to add numbers in there? /s
But seriously I think part of it is there is a lot of bureaucracy and different tax brackets get different legs up. We learned how to write checks, mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell, I made a sugar cube gold pyramid that melted when spray painting it, and we didn’t get beyond the American Revolution until we were 16.
FlyByPC@reddit
I think you got a bunch of business/finance types who happened to be American.
Interesting-Phase947@reddit
You are only comparing Americans who get jobs with European companies. That is going to skew how you see us. Most Americans are not that financially literate. My husband is the only person at his store who has a retirement savings account, and when he tried to encourage his coworkers and boss to do it, they didn't want to talk about it, because they perceived it as something you have to be a genius to do.
samiwas1@reddit
A lot of America is obsessed with money and wealth generation, so they're going to be on top of every financial decision. Some people base everything they do on how much it's going to cost or generate, and can't believe others don't do the same.
wizzard419@reddit
They aren't... as a nation we run on people making bad decisions and needing to spend more as a consequence.
You are seeing a company take over yours and sending people who are able to understand the concepts but they are not your average US citizens.
Think of it like you were sitting in the breakroom at a hospital, you would likely think that everyone in the building was knowledgeable in medicine.
Siddakid0812@reddit
You have a very strong selection bias. By and large, we aren’t.
peathah@reddit
Bias, the people that took over the company and sending others over are the ones doing well enough and are educated enough to know.
I in Europe there are social safety nets, pensions, cheap/free education, unemployment benefits, we do not need to think about it much.
But Europe needs to then compete with a country where the leaders, corporations, lawmakers are only looking to the bootstrap (financially literate) people. The invisible 40% many that are unable and left to be explored ruthlessly by the financially literate. It's a culture of me first, duck the rest.
Particular_Bet_5466@reddit
Because if we aren’t financially literate we are left to the wolves. There is no safety net. I’m 34 and feel like I’m already too far behind on my retirement investments.
Starboard_Pete@reddit
We’re trained on the complex math formulas of health insurance premiums, co-pays, and deductibles
ricobirch@reddit
Your interacting with a very specific group of Americans.
Employees of a multi national firm whose job it is to improve efficiency of acquisitions.
The average American is not that financially literate.
lyralady@reddit
Because you got to meet the Americans who were financially together enough and responsible enough to be chosen for a work move overseas by their company, lol.
I used to work call center for a US based bank, and I can confidently say that many Americans fail to understand basic things about finance in general or their own personal finances in particular.
rubiconsuper@reddit
2 reasons, 1) poor safety net and 2) tech company.
When you have more white collar workers you’re more likely to have people who make more on average. They probably also have a higher education level so it’s likely they’ll be more finically literate.
But even for those who aren’t tech people just your average hard working American is aware of finances. They might be drowning in debt but they know how to manage it enough to not lose it all. This is because the safety nets can be very poor.
Here’s an anecdote from my life, I lost my tech job and it took 5 months to find another. When I did the unemployment from GA it was going to be like 300 dollars a week until it hit the cap at like 20ish weeks which was about 5k worth of total payments. I was making more than that a month after taxes and what not. It was a tough time and it drained my savings but I made it work.
TheItinerantSkeptic@reddit
It ultimately comes down to a culture of individualism. We understand we’re largely on our own as adults: if we want to eat, have a place to live, clothe ourselves, etc., we’re responsible for all of that ourselves. We have social safety nets, but nowhere nearly as robust or quality as those of more collective-minded European countries.
Our healthcare is often a result of an employer-sponsored plan. It’s prohibitively expensive to have medical insurance without corporate subsidy, which is why one of the first things a prospective job applicant looks at for a company is what their medical/dental/vision benefits are. Without medical insurance, one single night in a hospital can bankrupt us. With medical insurance, it usually takes 4-5 nights before bankruptcy. 😂
America is very much a land of “Earn what you get”, instead of “We know you need these things, so government will provide them for you and pay for it through taxes”. This creates tragic failures… and truly epic successes.
ReciprocalPhi@reddit
Americans coming to the UK already have money. No financially illiterate smoothbrain is making it across the pond. You're being exposed to people who are there because of the thing you're noticing.
MythrilBalls@reddit
Here in America, money is directly tied to your identity and value as a human. You either adapt to it or fall behind. Not saying this is right or wrong. It just is what it is over here.
LolaAucoin@reddit
Junior Achievement
LeaveMediocre3703@reddit
This is definitely not a universal trait amongst Americans.
Look at student loans - people don’t realize they’re going to have a damn mortgage payment that they can’t possibly ever walk away from.
The people you’re encountering are financially literate, but I would suspect they ain’t shipping dumbasses across an ocean, so they aren’t representative of the population at large.
Anyone telling you otherwise hasn’t been paying attention.
TheLonelySnail@reddit
No social safety net. Only one looking out for me, is me.
So we learn how to manage pretty quickly.
Miserable-Lawyer-233@reddit
Making money is what we do.
BigDaddyReptar@reddit
Shits fucking complex over here it sink or swim. At bare minimum every year the government chooses to quiz you on how much you owe them (they know roughly if not exactly) and if you fuck it up they fine you and if you fuck it up on purpose they fine you a shit ton and maybe you got jail for a bit. Oh but also if you do it right there's easy to basically lie that are chill. And this is just the annual taxes.
Dapper_Owl_9@reddit
Because It a Capitalist country. People start working from like 10. Kids start with baby sitting jobs, then at 15 they would start working at McDonalds. When you earn, you learn.
Select_Total_257@reddit
America is expensive as hell. Existing with any degree of comfort here is not for the financially illiterate. Most people I know who are not struggling are in their situation because they pay attention to every detail of their financial lives. Put bluntly, if you’re not financially literate here your life is going to suck because you’re going to get taken advantage of by literally everybody.
oswin13@reddit
I would say these particular Americans are highly motivated to be financially literate, but Americans as a whole will run the gamut of financial genius to people who fall for every Nigeruan prince who emails them.
ConsiderationHot2800@reddit
Financial prowess is a function of managing surpluses. Americans are finally illiterate because unlike Europeans, they actually have surpluses. If you’ve got no money left at the end of the month, you can’t be bad at saving or investing.
MysticalWeasel@reddit
You are confusing the Americans you met in this situation with the average American, the average American isn’t getting sent by their employer to integrate a newly purchased company.
Ordinary_Cat_01@reddit
How can you be surprised? It is basically the epitome of capitalism
Augen76@reddit
We see the consequences of fellow countrymen who are not.
Complex-Royal9210@reddit
Because America is about making money and you need to know how money works to do well.
skylinesora@reddit
You have a limited experience from financially literate folks. That’s by far the exception. Most people don’t know jack shit
Gingerbrew302@reddit
You may be influenced by the size and background of your sample pool. I know plenty of financially illiterate Americans.
therealpursuit@reddit
it's not just financially. they think in fallacies, so anything that normal ppl can simply reason about they rely entirely on emotions and whatever argument makes them feel the best.
pastusodoug@reddit
No healthcare or free education like welfare queen EU.
Traditional_Ad_1012@reddit
I’m a European that moved to USA. My take is - in Europe you can sleepwalk through life and be very comfortable and entitled that “things will work out” with the free healthcare and government pension system, free or cheap education, subsidized or free daycare.
In USA - if you don’t pay attention to your budget and how you use your money - you’re going to get hurt. It’s going to be a painful nosedive into crippling debt.
LiquidDreamtime@reddit
In Europe, being financially illiterate means you holiday a bit less or don’t have as much spending money.
In the USA, being financially illiterate means you die in poverty with no healthcare, education, or housing.
RelevanceReverence@reddit
Some, lovingly say: "The USA is a third world country with a Gucci belt" (not my words) it does not have proper social systems, like we're used to in the EU/EEA.
If you're successful enough, you can pay for your own healthcare, organise your own pension, pay for your own education and that of your children, fundraise/pay for your neighborhood facilities, and handle your own taxes (live practically tax free with a good accountant). This is further amplified by a culture of strong interpersonal competition.
Every semi-successful being in the USA, has to live like a well run business to remain successful. In the EU/EEA, that is not necessary, it's (mostly) well organised.
tnred19@reddit
I mean, your average American isn't. They don't have 500 in the bank and are living paycheck to paycheck. People in tech are likely high achievers and educated and may have some money themselves or through family and are more motivated to learn about it. Also, 401k and saving through employment are big and can be an intro. Our Healthcare is strange and requires some attention. Our tax system is bizarre too. But again, you're taking to motivated and educated people it seems
onlyreason4u@reddit
We are? That's a new one I've not heard before.
Certainly there are people that are. Your perception might be skewed by the people you are working with. I work in tech. It traditionally has been a high paying industry which requires high levels of skill. Most everyone I've worked with in my career has been very smart and multi-disciplined. We all have several hobbies and interests, are well informed about what is going in the world, etc. Often, but not always, that includes financial sense. We all make enough to have investments. If you don't own a successful business the other way you become wealthy in the US is by saving/investing over 20-30 years. In my late 40s I make more from investing then I do at my job most years, on a good year multiple times. I just don't spend it, it's either in retirement accounts I can't touch yet or unrealized gains in investments I don't touch much for tax reasons. You tend to pay more attention and learn a few things when you have that much at stake. I suspect many of the people you work with are millionaires, or on their way to becoming one.
Europeans in tech make a lot less but they don't have to worry about job losses, education, health care, retirement, etc as much as we do. If you are smart with your money and make a decent income we come out significantly ahead of someone similar in Europe. That's not most Americans though. Most people are just trying to pay their bills and don't have a lot in savings or are carrying debt. We don't really teach financial literacy in schools and most people just getting by aren't making the best financial choices.
Beneficial_Dingo_937@reddit
We need to be because our governmental safety net is crap
ThimbleBluff@reddit
In addition to the need (as other commenters have pointed out) for a certain level of literacy to manage our personal finances, there’s a lot of accessible sources for information about money and economics. Business news channels on tv give daily updates on the stock market. Key economic data like unemployment, job growth, and inflation is released and widely reported on a monthly basis alongside political news.
On top of that, almost everything in the US is privatized, monetized and advertised. Health insurance and healthcare is complicated and costly, so if you have any health problems, you have to learn to navigate the system. We have a lot of options to finance/refinance our houses and vehicles. We get credit card and car insurance offers shoved in front of us daily.
Ask_Aspie_@reddit
In my high school we were required to take an economics class.
StogieMan92@reddit
We like money. Plain and simple.
humble-meercat@reddit
American have to because the government does not take care of it. Americans calculate their own taxes, have to figure out their own retirement , usually and gain all the skills that come along with that.
Crisis_Redditor@reddit
Not every American is that savvy. Tech giant employees are probably going to be a lot more knowledgeable than the average Joe who's main worry is just budgeting for emergencies, or to keep the lights on.
For some people, though, finance is like a hobby, even if they don't invest.
RunsaberSR@reddit
A good chunk of us noticed rich folk in the market making stupid money.
Americans who make it overseas also are going to be a massively different person vs a home town dude who has never left his state. Plenty of those over here.
NoMonk8635@reddit
I don't think most are
stang6990@reddit
This is my thinking. So, really how dumb is Europe to think the average American is financially literate? It was reported numerous times that trumps economic plan would sink our economy and here we are and its happening right before our eyes.
Cali_Anne@reddit
Exactly
DeceitfulDuck@reddit
You mentioned getting bought out by a tech giant. As an American employee of a tech giant, somewhere around 20-30% of my annual pay is in company stock. I also previously worked for a smaller privately held tech company where we all had stock options that were essentially worthless unless the company ever held an IPO or was bought out for more than the original investors had invested. The majority of what I know about economics and the stock market is because I've gradually picked it up while understanding how my own pay works and, given how much of my current pay is related to the current price of my company stock, how the broader economy is most likely to impact that.
So in that sense, your exposure to Americans might be skewed towards a relatively small group that doesn't work directly in the finance field but interacts with a slightly more complex than average part of it.
North-Finding-3542@reddit
I don’t think most of Americans are financially literate. Just check the data on how much debt the average American has including credit card debt, student loans, car loans…
Cali_Anne@reddit
💯
Treje-an@reddit
Perhaps it’s because so many Americans are responsible for funding their own retirement Americans are often responsible for choosing their own health plans as well.
Millkstake@reddit
Because we have to be. Shit is so overly complicated
fringeOdeath@reddit
Our entire existence is ran by money in the U.S. EVERY SINGLE THING in the U.S. cost money so we have to know how to use it wisely in order to survive.
Appropriate-Food1757@reddit
College
Hoosier_Jedi@reddit
“Why are some Americans competent at their jobs?” 🙄
Formal_Economist7342@reddit
Because our retirements are stupidly tied to the stock market.
NoCaterpillar2051@reddit
Americans live life on hard mode. We have to know these things.
Online_Discovery@reddit
Are you sure about that...? We enjoy a fairly cushy standard of living in the US at all levels. Even dirt poor people tend to have phones and access to food and clean water
People in Subsaharah Africa or war torn countries life live on hard mode
NoCaterpillar2051@reddit
Not a person of nuance or hyperbole are we?
Kataphractoi@reddit
Those types typically aren't.
Certain-Monitor5304@reddit
......Is this a compliment?
456name789@reddit
Probably just because I think we talk about money more. It’s not so much a taboo subject as it used to be.
Embarrassed-Olive856@reddit
When your very existance is nickel and dimed for everything, you have to know exactly how much you have, how much you can spend, and what you will have left (if anything).
GurProfessional9534@reddit
There are two categories of American.
The ones on the lower branch of the k don’t think about financial planning except “where is my next rent payment going to come from?”
The ones on the upper branch of the k talk to their friends about investing the same way, 20 years ago, people might have talked about sports.
game_master_marc@reddit
How old are these people? Personal finance is a required high school course in most states - but that is a recent trend
whirlpool138@reddit
Alexander Hamilton literally dedicated his life to lobbying as hard as he could, to create a strong financial backbone for the young United States, at a time when most Great Powers were still dealing with traditional mercantilism. He started his career in a Caribbean import/export counting house and knew how important it would be to build American financial literacy, even though it's not really mentioned at all in the constitution (outside Congress' power of the purse).
garulousmonkey@reddit
Your new employer only sent the best and brightest to integrate your operations with theirs.
There are many, many Americans that cannot be trusted to even pay their bills monthly, let alone understanding finance and economics.
RhymenoserousRex@reddit
When the safety net for failure is sleeping under a bridge you tend to learn fast.
AntJo4@reddit
Because they don’t have a choice. They have to invest personally because they don’t have a social safety net.
ahferroin7@reddit
Your view of Americans is a bit skewed in that only realistically successful companies buy out other companies. Such companies by definition will tend to have a competent financial team internally, and are more likely to have generally economically literate individuals as general employees because the individuals who end up with white collar jobs (and thus working for such companies) are statistically more likely to be reasonably intelligent. Also, the people they send out to manage companies they buy out are almost always going to be the smart and successful employees.
There are plenty of financially illiterate Americans. Probably far more than those who are financially literate. But you’re much less likely to interact with them outside of the US because they tend to not travel as much (not as much money for that), and also tend to end up stuck in low income jobs (less money means less ability to actually find and keep a good job here for multiple reasons).
That said, America both has fewer and often less effective social safety nets than most of the more affluent parts of Europe, and also, at least historically, more opportunities for someone who knows what they’re doing to make a decent amount of money just by knowing what they’re doing and putting it into practice. That tends to favor the smarter individuals being financially savvy, because it means they can pretty directly benefit from it.
andrew_Y@reddit
I think it has to do with housing. My feeling based on the anecdote about a stereotypical kid getting shoved toward the door at 18. Get a job, plan your budget for housing, car, insurance at such a young age compared to Europeans.
We have credit cards and get fucked with debt early too. I’ve known a few friends get their vehicles repossessed and cc’s into collections.
We also have a saying about “Keeping up with the Jones’s”. Buying the fancy engagement ring? Finance it. Need a new car? Do you want the 0% APR or the $5000 in rebates with the 5.9% rate?
Student loans are pushed on kids too. Shit, our country is in debt.
MH_75@reddit
It's a necessity for survival here. When you get of age you're dumped into the jungle of real life with one mission, survive.
omninode@reddit
In America, you die if you run out of money.
Far_Anything_7458@reddit
There are loads of Americans that are absolutely NOT financially literate, they just don't work for multi-national companies with the opportunity to move to Europe.
ConsciousGreenPepper@reddit
Because we have a hustle culture coupled with extreme debt. You have to learn about finance and economics to survive
EnddualityGap@reddit
if we’re not, we’re fucked.
there is no safety net here.
Princess_Kate@reddit
If you literally just got bought out, meaning you haven’t reached Legal Day 1, the team that was sent over are specialists in exactly those fields. And if it’s an American tech “giant”, they likely have been through quite a few mergers and acquisitions. Before you even knew you were being acquired, there were teams doing due diligence prior to the acquisition. And almost certainly, they know the rules for European acquisitions.
At this point, what they’re doing is actually pretty formulaic. That’s not to take away from their abilities at all. They developed their processes but within a generally accepted framework. I’m going to assume the organization that acquired yours is publicly traded, because quite often, private companies generally aren’t as efficient because they aren’t under the same scrutiny. That’s sort of the nuts and bolts of what you’re seeing.
But the individual work ethic? What everyone else is saying in this thread.
weepninnybong@reddit
Keep in mind, that the people in a position to be relocated by your new parent company are also likely making more money than your average. Financial literacy generally goes up with the more money you make.
Bogmanbob@reddit
Most benefits (health, retirement and so forth) are optional and requires significant employee contributions so people generally pay attention and put a lot of thought into it.
Sheila_Monarch@reddit
You’re probably dealing with some Americans sent over by the new ownership because they’re particularly adept in those things. Finance, economics, rapid overhaul, etc. It’s pretty much how M&A (mergers & acquisitions) work. Even if they’re not specifically in roles that would seem like that would be part of it.
They may also have stock in their own company. That’s many a layman’s first exposure to stock markets and investing, particularly if the company went public (became publicly traded) in recent years or during their employment. Just be sure you’re talking to legitimately knowledgeable people and not bullshit “crypto bros” or “stonks” idiots. They love pretending they’re Wall Street finance bros, but they’re mostly just gambling addicts and get rich quick dreamers with smart-sounding jargon.
Remote_Ocelot9600@reddit
Most are not. The middle and upper class are because it was taught to them by parents. But ask them to change out the toilet and get a blank look. A person raised poor is far more handy.
You are just dealing with middle and upper class.
GravyTrain033@reddit
I grew up poor and got myself into the middle class. I’m not changing out a toilet. I’ll pay the plumber, who is also probably making descent money
Remote_Ocelot9600@reddit
I was raised upper class. My wife was raised lower class.
I did not know how to change out a light socket. She did. I still do not know. I call someone.
GravyTrain033@reddit
Oh bro, there are things I will attempted, but I don’t play with electricity.
PresentationFluffy24@reddit
Rest assured most Americans are not financially literate. But many in corporate roles are. In part because a lot of emphasis is placed in stock price and the stock market in general. There are thousands of publicly traded companies and whether you have employee equity, a 401k or you just like investing what happens in the market is of interest to you.
I have a 401k all stock, an HSA 80% invested, a couple 529s and some other small brokerage accounts. I'm always watching the market and thinking about my family's financial future.
xyzqwa@reddit
I don't know if most are, I think it's more just the financially illiterate are so vocally loud. They like to blame their problems on everyone but themselves so it takes up a good amount of social media discourse.
Upper-Bus8010@reddit
Our culture and fire and our cycles in the United States are absolutely brutal. You better be taking care of yourself and trusting the markets. That's how it works. We will put up with stress but not for the long term.
nathanwilson26@reddit
The truth is that it varies tremendously. It seems like your new colleagues are middle and upper income. Americans in this income range need to be financially literate because they don’t have government sponsored pensions, and must invest to save for retirement to maintain their lifestyle in retirement.
IndigoHG@reddit
It's because we have to file our taxes.
Potential_Fishing942@reddit
Probs our tax system. Lots of European countries mostly do the taxes for you, and you can elect to self audit or donor yourself if you want. In the US, you'd have to pay NOT to do your taxes.
Mayor_of_BBQ@reddit
there’s no social safety net, so you gotta figure out how to save and take care of yourself or you’ll work until you die in your boots
jaladreips271@reddit
Do Europeans finance burritos on Doordash?
CoderPro225@reddit
Proving your worth is often how you keep your job in America. If you cannot understand your own financial impact, you cannot prove your worth to your employer. Everything here is about the bottom line. To protect your own livelihood, which includes healthcare as it’s attached to employment, you learn that or you don’t survive. And to survive after retirement you must learn how to maximize your own investments to get the best return.
17Girl4Life@reddit
I’m interested in economics because you can’t truly understand politics without understanding economics. It’s a really interesting subject to me
the-quibbler@reddit
Wealth and opportunity. Most American professionals have excess funds to invest towards retirement, in accounts they manage. This incentivizes them to know what they're doing to maximize returns.
HudsonYardsIsGood@reddit
Professionals being the key word. Almost half of American households have no retirement savings.
the-quibbler@reddit
46% is a significant minority. Not enough, but significant.
annang@reddit
Now look at how much people actually have in those accounts. The median retirement savings balance is like $80,000. And that’s for people of all ages. There are lots of people in that 46% who have maybe a few thousand dollars in a retirement account, and will be totally dependent on whatever is left of Social Security by the time they retire.
the-quibbler@reddit
Sure, valid point. It'll be about 80% of what it is now (the trust fund accounts for about 20%, which is the part that will be insolvent.)
And even the top quartile having over $80k saved is a significant amount of the professional class to have financial education.
annang@reddit
Wait, do you think $80k in retirement savings is a lot? That’s like 2 years of expenses for a middle class couple, maybe 3 if they’re lucky. A mid-career white collar worker who has that little saved definitely does not have much financial education.
the-quibbler@reddit
The median worker is roughly 20 years from retirement (assuming an even spread over 40 working years). So, since most retirement savings occurs in the years before retirement, I think it could be worse.
censorized@reddit
Fear. The likelihood that Social Security wont be able to provide meaningful retirement income, along with the government nudging people into personal retirement t accounts necessitated that people learn something about finances.
Glass-Ad4160@reddit
It’s becoming more and more important for us to survive. Depends on where you’re located but near major cities like Boston where I am people are fast motivated and professional. It’s all about making big changes. Schooling is good here
Ill_Manufacturer7706@reddit
Id saw because of pur puritan origins which is both bad and good its helped us with finances and business.
thatmaneeee@reddit
Because this country will just watch you die in the streets if you aren’t.
colonblaster4000@reddit
Well, it's a skill for one. Another reason is the average household income isnt anywhere near the average cost of living in the US anymore, so people are just saying "fuck it, if I'm going to be poor forever I may as well have some fun while I'm still healthy enough to do it."
YogurtclosetWrong268@reddit
A century ago Government empowered bureaucracy to take over "education" and they turned it into a 'schooling industry' where financial literacy just isn't aligned with the social engineering purpose of the government schooling paradigm.
Stateach@reddit
I’m just happy to see a “positive” post about Americans from someone abroad. Nice change of pace
Maxorus73@reddit
We have to be financially literate cause companies try to fuck us way more here
Friendly_Side3258@reddit
Maybe capitalism?🤔 accounting and Econ were my faaaav classes in college!
daveashaw@reddit
Because we have to be.
In the US, you are on your own.
Borrow too much for college/car/house or whatever? Tough shit--you can work for rest of your life paying it back, and then claims will be filed against your estate when you are fucking dead.
Unemployed and unable to find work through no fault of your own? Tough shit.
Disabled from an injury or illness and you don't have enough insurance? Tough shit.
Thought you were going to inherit your parents' house, but they took out a reverse equity mortgage and it's all gone? Tough shit.
Europe has high taxes and a great safety net, paid for those taxes.
In the US, no such luck.
sonicboomslang@reddit
Money is all that matters in America. We learn how to help the wealthy make as much as they can.
DexxxterBragg@reddit
We have a shitty social safety net. We have to take care of ourselves more carefully.
Diligent-Variation51@reddit
Well we don’t have safety nets so understanding how to handle our personal finances is very important. But also keep in mind that your sample size is skewed towards more educated/savvy people. The average American is not qualified to work internationally.
Black_Raven_2024@reddit
I think Americans are financially aware is because we have so few jobs with pensions that we need to plan our own retirement strategies. Sink or swim, nobody’s coming to your rescue!
lanfair@reddit
The AVERAGE American is actually drowning in debt due to homes and cars and other toys outside their price range. What you're dealing with are high performing people at a tech giant in charge of mergers and acquisitions. They're where they're at bc they understand how to maximize every penny.
I'm on a much, much smaller scale at my company but we've doubled, then tripled in size in the past two years and are most likely going to double in size again this year, mostly all through acquiring other companies. So I can tell you what happens during mergers and acquisitions, albeit it will be turned up a hundredfold a big tech giant. The first thing that happens when acquiring new companies is everybody better scramble to prove their not dead weight or they're getting let go within the first month, or two at most. The new company gets quickly leaned down to only the best and brightest and the managers and execs from the company doing the acquiring take over everything else bc they've already proven they know how to get results and be profitable.
So what you end up with in those scenarios are the people that know how to make money and maximize profits or they'd have already been laid off.
Cookies4Dinner73@reddit
I think because so many of us want to retire someday. We know we have to make smart personal financial decisions if we even want a chance at a happy retirement. So we educate ourselves. I’ll point out though that it’s not our public education system that teaches us. Very little if any personal finance classes are offered.
hewhorocks@reddit
Americans are the product of the environment they live in.
SnooCheesecakes2723@reddit
Survival skills here. There’s no real safety net. You better figure it out
pudding7100@reddit
Look up some statistics about the average American financially and you won't think that. Most cannot afford a $1,000 surprise without going into debt.
teknos1s@reddit
Necessity is the mother of all invention
Major_Barnacle_2212@reddit
I think we are forced to become the masters of our destiny
Pretty_Hold5454@reddit
This is what Google says: As of 2025–2026, approximately 62% of U.S. adults own stocks, either directly or through retirement accounts like 401(k)s or IRAs. Investment account ownership is heavily driven by income level, with high-income households far more likely to invest than lower-income households.
VelocityGrrl39@reddit
The one thing America is winning at is capitalism. Which also means we’re losing.
skipperoniandcheese@reddit
financial literacy means people climbing out of poverty, and that means no one taking the shit jobs for shit pay.
labranjaymes@reddit
Because if ur bad at it you go broke very fast here
UpbeatPhilosophySJ@reddit
We don't live in a nanny state. If we screw up, we have to hit the streets and live in a box.
ChocolateChingus@reddit
If you don’t know you’re homeless.
juliabk@reddit
I suspect it’s because we have such crappy safety nets and are so poorly paid. :-) Learn or die.
purplishfluffyclouds@reddit
Um... that's quite the broadly inaccurate assumption, LOL. SOME "Americans" are. Many not so much.
kartoffel_engr@reddit
Specifically in business, we are all about driving out losses. It’s free money that just needs to be unlocked with some effort and/or capital investment. Big props to the Japanese for some of their processes.
I support our international teams and what you say is definitely obvious to me. As an engineer I spend quite a bit of time in the finance space. Currently on a call with finance folks and government officials in Argentina about VAT reimbursements and tax rebates. Actually surprised they scheduled it this late their time (9:45pm).
If enough people understand how the business exists, the more eyes and brains you have to find opportunities to make it better.
GroundbreakingRun186@reddit
I’m guessing you’re facing a bit of a sampling bias.
Big tech companies are full of ambitious people trying to get rich. And the people they’d send to integrate after a merger are usually their A team (or at least it is at a well run company).
I work in finance and when people find that out the most common response is “should I invest in the stock market? I hear I should buy I don’t even know where to start”. Doesn’t matter if it’s a plumber or a doctor, the response is either that, or the most abrupt change in topic to avoid talking about finance.
For the record, yes. Invest in the stock market. Buy an sp500 index fund, let it sit for 10+ years
ConstantinopleFett@reddit
It doesn't sound like you're dealing with "average" Americans honestly. Tech giant employees relocating overseas are going to be pretty well-informed, relatively, and also well paid so they have to know how to manage money. The average American is a lot more likely to have a 15% interest rate on a car loan and not know what that means.
laughingmeeses@reddit
So, the USA leans harder into broader pedagogy in general. It's not uncommon to run into people with wildly different educational disciplines because that's what we're taught to do.
annang@reddit
It’s a class marker. If you are middle class or above, and you want to be able to go on vacation or own a house or hope to retire someday, or even just if you want to make sure you’re not bankrupted by one health crisis, you basically have to learn this stuff. Otherwise, there’s no way to have the lifestyle most people would consider to be middle class on even an above-average salary.
I think you’d find that if your coworkers weren’t white collar tech, employees, they’d have very different levels of knowledge and information about this stuff. There’s no reason for most poor people to learn it, because they don’t have enough money to actually make any use of it. But people who have some money, and want to be able to live a lifestyle that they feel is commensurate with their earnings, and hope to ever be able to retire basically have to learn about finances and investing in the economy, because the alternative is to end up poor. Because there is almost no safety net if you fuck any of it up.
Ghost4000@reddit
I think your company is probably not a great sample size. I know many people making 100k+ and who, while not poor, are definitely not financially literate.
That said if I was forced to guess a reason for why Americans may be more financially literate it'd be the lack of social safety nets. The fact that I can be fired for almost any reason (baring protected reasons) and that when that happens I can't pay my mortgage, don't have health insurance, and have no retirement plan outside my works, really means I have to have a plan.
I'm not even actually in the above described scenario, just an example that I'm very familiar with.
ashleyandmarykat@reddit
The US has few social supports. Therefore we need to care to protect out livelihood.
Sharp_Ad_9431@reddit
If we have to live in corporate life, we begin to excel at it...or we get fired.
trimtab28@reddit
We're financially literate?
What I will say is we're more individualistic than Europe. Greater emphasis is put on the individual for achieving their material needs than a social safety net. We're also less regulated a lot.
Best way to describe the US compared to Europe is higher risk, higher reward
thedukejck@reddit
Because you have to or get further left behind in a nation that provides only the bare minimum is social services especially lack of healthcare, dental, vision and/or go bankrupt trying to go to university/training just trying to survive.
Manateekisses51@reddit
We mostly have no pensions, have to invest for our own retirements, and can be bankrupted by our health care. Not knowing can literally kill us.
keleshia@reddit
This is the difference between a capitalist system and socialist
Otherwise-OhWell@reddit
FUCK YES! Two r/AskAnAmerican circlejerks in one day!
Prudent_Cookie_114@reddit
Probably because like most things, Americans are sort of on our own…..we have (by and large) terrible social safety nets, so we HAVE to learn things like finance and healthcare and other things to have any chance of financial stability.
sakmentoloki@reddit
Considering the amount of debt the average American is in I would suggest that your sector of work is the minority not the majority of the population.
Strong-Big-2590@reddit
If you make a lot of money, you’re incentivized to understand how markets work so you can invest it.
We aren’t just working for government pensions and 8 weeks off in the summer. A lot of successful people are securing their own rich future
Paramedic229635@reddit
I had to take economics as a half year social studies course to graduate my senior year of high school. It covered budgeting, stocks, bank accounts, and taxes.
MainusEventus@reddit
Smart.
OkAdagio4389@reddit
We have a natural suspicion of government and a do it yourself attitude that insulates us from more socialist tendencies.
JamieIsAMansNameToo@reddit
Because the USA learned how to colonize from the best. Regretfully.
largos7289@reddit
Capitalism, it's a great system to get to know how money works.
secrerofficeninja@reddit
It’s just part of the “more is better “ mentality of being an American. Trying to get more money to buy more stuff. I would prefer an environment more based on enjoying life and less on trying to achieve more and more.
Having said that, I worked for a European company who bought our business in America. European companies are nicer to employees.
zer04ll@reddit
Because capitalism works much better when people are stupid ass consumers
AggravatingBobcat574@reddit
I’m American. Your experience is not like mine. I work with mostly college-educated, 20-somethings. They are not financially literate. Huge credit card debt, student loan debt, making minimum payments, not contributing to their 401K,
CharlesAvlnchGreen@reddit
In 1978, a US law (the Revenue Act) paved the way for a massive transition from employer-paid pensions to something called 401K funds: where employees can contribute part of their paycheck tax free (many employers kicking in a nominal amount) to fund their retirement.
These 401Ks were generally stock market investments (mutual funds), and though you didn't HAVE to participate, it was drilled into your head that it could make the difference between having a retirement nest egg, and having nothing.
Later, other laws paved the way for similar retirement accounts (IRAs, or individual retirement accounts) which you can set up independently of your employer, and which offer more freedom in that you don't have to necessarily stick with the mutual funds your employer chooses. Mine is individual stocks, with some cash investments as well.
Anyway, these accounts became ubiquitous -- offered as benefits for most full time employees of companies above a certain size -- beginning in the late 1980s.
It's led to a modicum of financial literacy for many Americans. And since the internet and the ease of learning and trading online, I think this literacy has become more common.
I don't know how it works in Europe, but IMO it was the change from pensions to self-funded retirement plans that spurred a generation of Americans to care about investments to some degree.
HairyDadBear@reddit
I think that's moreso the employees of said companies. My workplace is relaxed and talk nonsense lol.
TedW@reddit
This makes moresosense to me.
Frigoris13@reddit
Please, Sir. May i have some moreso?
Sharkhawk23@reddit
American colleges and universities are liberal arts institutions rather than trade schools like many European unia. To get a bachelors degree, you must take classes in economics, logic, English, math etc. You can’t get a bachelors just studying in your field of study.
SopapillaSpittle@reddit
It’s the 401k system.
If you’re smart about it you can retire at 55 or so and live pretty well, and everyone knows a few of people that have done that. So they become interested in figuring out what to do to shave a decade off your working life and add a decade to you leisure life.
EducationalStick5060@reddit
I suspect it's a sampling issue - for whatever reason (the field you're in, the company itself, etc.) you got put in touch with a group of Americans who are very strong in a specific field. It happens all over the place, that above-average people in one dimension end up getting over-represented in a sub-group for some reason.
I met tons of Americans while traveling in East Asia about a decade ago, and I can tell you, the average American tourist traveling to Asia independently isn't statistically representative of your average American, in any way at all.
owen_skye@reddit
Money is our language. Kids in my social circle in high school were already talking stocks by the 9th grade. We want money early and figure out ways to get it, plain and simple. Stocks, tax returns, investment accounts, high yield savings accounts, retirement funds. Personally, I have multiple accounts for varying reasons, all with the intent of maximizing my returns. This is pretty standard for middle and upper class folks.
Nahgloshi@reddit
You work white collar with educated Americans. The majority are not like this.
iceph03nix@reddit
I think this might be a bit of a selection bias, in that the people who aren't very financially literate are not likely getting jobs doing international business acquisitions
Bored_Accountant999@reddit
To be fair, you probably are working with people that are a bit above average intelligence.
RedStag86@reddit
In a hyper-capitalistic society, if you don’t know how money works, other people end up with yours.
thomasrat1@reddit
So finance culture is huge. Not denying that.
But I will say, the group you’re talking to, is going to be heavily biased.
Not even a slight, I grew up in Colorado, and the east coast felt like another country
SnubLifeCrisis@reddit
Because we have to chase that bag
WistfulDread@reddit
They are not, actually.
They are simply more confident that they are.
HeyPurityItsMeAgain@reddit
You asked this question to fiscally illiterate communists (a Reddit thing, not an American thing).
WhiskeyHotel83@reddit
You aren't exactly seeing the average US citizen when you are working with people that a company is willing to pay to work overseas for them.
Fishhb2020@reddit
What you’re saying is very true about Americans, but it also why our work/life balance is so poor.
JJCalixto@reddit
I wouldn’t assume you’re being exposed the genuine average American.
But also in america if you don’t find a way to financially survive at a bare minimum, you are quickly homeless or dead, which is highly common here. I personally received next to zero basic education of financial literacy in public schooling.
thebigj3wbowski@reddit
Most Americans couldn’t afford a $400 random expense… we are not financially literate.
Furdinand@reddit
What a BS stat. A) It is less than 40% and B) the question was whether they could cover it with cash. An expense that can be put on a credit card and be budgeted for after the fact is "affordable", just not convenient.
thebigj3wbowski@reddit
If you have to cover $400 with a credit card it’s not affordable. Those are the folks who have an apr approaching 30%. Most of them will just deeper and deeper into debt.
Confident_Prompt4282@reddit
There's a difference between financial literacy and financial solvency
PlannedSkinniness@reddit
Exactly. I know the right money moves I just might not make them.
Gmhowell@reddit
I feel called out in particular.
Turd_Fergusons_@reddit
We have a much weaker social safety net. If you can't figure it out, too bad for you. Survival of the fittest. Those who can will, those who can't are fucked. Nature.
Bland_OldMan@reddit
You're probably not seeing a reprentative sample of Americans. Plenty of people fall into debt traps or have no real savings or retirement plans in the US. Go into a low income area in a US city and you'll see legal loansharks in the form of payday/title loans, predatory financing at auto dealerships and other pitfalls that a financially literate person would avoid.
Americans have to be financially literate to afford a home, have a real retirement plan, pay for kids to go to college, and not be ruined by medical expenses. And even so, the tech industry folks you interacted with are probably in the 75th percentile or higher for individual income ($100k/yr), so they have much more financial freedom than most Americans.
NeverRarelySometimes@reddit
We fund our own retirements. Most companies start you on 401k accounts, deducting some of your paycheck and sticking it in a retirement account, with a small matching donation. You get to choose how it's invested - very conservatively, with guaranteed returns, moderately risky, in blue chip mutual funds, or in small cap or international funds. You see, real-time, how your investments are doing, and learn very quickly to pay yourself first.
The second thing I'd point out is that your American staff are not average. Being offered foreign travel and being in a high tech company, they are likely to be well educated and performance oriented.
Nice to hear a European admit that we're not all lazy and stupid.
Zephyr_Dragon49@reddit
24 hour news cycles
Online banking and information everywhere
Do not underestimate this country's philosophy of money above all. It's literally the only thing we deeply care about across the board.
RoarTheDinosuar@reddit
I think that American colleges, and the diverse education they force you to get, are that much better than anywhere else in the world
Accomplished_Mix7827@reddit
Our state pension is a pittance and it's rare to get a pension from your job, so you have to learn that stuff and handle your own investments if you ever want to retire.
Most Americans primarily rely on a tax-advantaged investment portfolio called a 401K for our retirement savings
Tired_Mama3018@reddit
Our safety net sucks so you’re kind of have to make your own. We also have financial literacy classes in middle and high school, as well as most colleges make you take an economics class.
SteakAndIron@reddit
Did you ever wonder why Americans are so rich? For better or worse, money is drilled into us from a young age
Adorable_Dust3799@reddit
Not as much class divide. Any farm boy can make a million with an education. My dad did, and most of his buddies. Several of them grew up shooting squirrels and rabbits for dinner.
Fl_bmo@reddit
Americans are NOT financially literate, those few you met for the company do not represent the 340+ million stateside
No_One113812@reddit
Capitalism is a religion here.
Grafakos@reddit
Pensions are mostly a thing of the past, so most of us are responsible for our own retirement savings. We do have Social Security, which provides a basic income in retirement, but it's not (nor was ever intended to be) enough to live on comfortably in its own right.
ft907@reddit
It is all we have. We dont make things, grow things, create things. What we DO is move money around to make it look like more money.
foolproofphilosophy@reddit
Because you have pensions, favorable employment laws, and subsidized healthcare. In America it’s sink-or-swim. There’s also going to be a lot of bias because you’re dealing with a skilled set of employees. General financial literacy is actually shit here.
AnteaterGlittering96@reddit
We don’t have a very good social safety net. It’s survival of the (financially) fittest. So, you either learn how to save and invest, or you’re stuck in working poverty.
Dopamaxxer@reddit
I am one of the first employees of a European company’s American expansion. I’m in sales, and we run circles around our European counterparts. They just don’t have the training there.
Then a couple weeks ago we hire our first dedicated American sales manager. The European Chief Sales Officer is looking at him like he invented fire. Every day there is a new process change because an American came in and says “this is how it needs to be done”. And he’s right. And things are rapidly improving.
WanderingGalwegian@reddit
I would also say you e bias from those you’re interacting with… a first wave of workers on site from a tech giant in an overseas buyout… would be the type of people who are financially literate.
There is an absolute abundance of financially illiterate around here too.
EulerIdentity@reddit
You’re getting a non-representative sample. Americans employed in white collar jobs by a giant tech company are going to be more educated generally and more financially literate than Americans as a whole.
imtooldforthishison@reddit
We have to be. I grew up poor and was poor until my kid was 10ish. Because of this, I was very aware of every cent in and out of my house and how things would impact my credit and man... I talked his ears off about money and finance. Hes 20 now, has a 750 credit score, makes sure his money is in check and keeps a tight leash on his spending.
Although I hate the generational wars nonsense, I do think the parents of a lot of Gen X and millennials just didn't bother to teach their kids jack-shit about money.
Overall, American personal fiance has changed A LOT in the last 40 years and most of us are one emergancy away for financial crisis and we know this everyday so more and more people are educating themselves and their kids on how to survive that one emergancy.
Rickydada@reddit
Honestly hilarious to me that someone would think this given how as an American I think the opposite
misagale@reddit
Money is America’s God.
NotenStein@reddit
The people you are interacting with are probably more literate than the average American.
The Tech sector does usually have good benefits, including retirement investing plans, and so the company will be sponsoring some financial education for employees to take advantage of those benefits. Top management is incentivized to get people to participate. Some of the programs limit executive participation if lower level workers are not participating.
Emotional_Pay3658@reddit
America is the land of extremes
The people who know their shit, really know it.
And the ones that don’t, well you’ll wonder how they made it this far.
szdragon@reddit
Because there's no one watching our back. We have no legitimate social security system. Our healthcare insurance system is out of control. If you're not financially literate, you're in big trouble, and there are so many unchecked sharks out to get your money.
Radar1980@reddit
Because we have to. The “social safety net” here has a lot of bloody great big holes in it.
Too_Ton@reddit
Europeans and other countries don’t care as much about money but focus more on being happy whether with money or without.
“Walkable town? Heated homes? Good enough for me. Oh. And 35-40 hour work weeks.”
LockNessCrotchMonst@reddit
Urope are dum
sessamekesh@reddit
This one might be a more tech industry specific one - employees are often compensated with stock in our tech industry, and there's a pretty surprising amount of upward mobility in the working class in tech specifically. It benefits American tech workers to understand that stuff so they learn! At least the really ambitious ones, and they are rewarded for being ambitious.
More generally, American financial systems and public programs put a relatively high degree of responsibility on the individual for things like retirement, basic needs, employment, etc. I generally think that's a bad thing (making what should be acceptable mistakes can be catastrophic!) but it does come with quite a few benefits and a generally financially literate working class is one of them.
Old_Quote_7995@reddit
Lol, no way I'm hearing this from Europeans. you guys are the intelligent ones with money. in the US, we take on debt that will never get paid off, have enormous homes we can't afford, drive 2-3 $100k SUV trucks per house, finance furniture, food, gas, entertainment, etc. you guys only buy what you can afford and credit isn't a big thing for small items. I'm Russian/Ukrainian, and I shake my head at the American way of living on borrowed time.
Semi-Pros-and-Cons@reddit
Well, money is our god. That "In God we trust" line that we print our our banknotes is self-referential. Non-believers and the insufficiently zealous are cast out into the wilderness and left to die.
jacowab@reddit
We don't get any free rides in the US, you can't exist as an adult in the US without financial literacy because we have very few social safety nets, so if you are financially illiterate your probably mooching off someone or homeless.
Nopeeky@reddit
Da fuck you talking about?
Over 10% of Americans live under the recognized poverty rate.
thanatos0320@reddit
I can tell you as a finance professional (i do m&a and VC), that most people have no clue whay they're talking about when it comes to investing — i.e., it's only surface level knowledge... personal finance is a slightly different.
That said, it became a recent thing as it has become easier to invest on your own through apps/websites, find information, etc... it really boomed during covid
Own_Confection4334@reddit
Because it is expensive country
CompletelyPaperless@reddit
Because the whole country is money. It's all anyone cares about here.
Any-Investment5692@reddit
The American economic system makes sure people are ignorant. If they taught people how to be financially literate then the system would fail. They need useful idiots to make it work. They teach everyone how to be good EMPLOYEES who are in DEBT up to their EYEBALLS. They also make is so that if you try to break free from being an employee that its an uphill battle until you cross a certain threshold and then it becomes easier. Basically America is split between employees who trade time for money and employers who buy peoples time for make more money. Crossing that gap is challenging to be an employer.
Pisces93@reddit
Our lord and savior is the almighty Dollar, naturally.
MattieShoes@reddit
Plenty of Americans are completely ignorant of all that.
But I think the answer you're looking for is that Americans need that knowledge more -- that's how we retire. That's how we pay for our health insurance.
pacificcoasthighway@reddit
The real answer is that America is hypercapitalist, and money is a constant conversation growing up and represented in culture, from TV series like Industry, Succession, White Lotus to having popularized the Patrick Bateman banker archetype back in the 80s and 90s. Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps to Wolf of Wall Street. Crypto and Sam Bankman Fried. These days it’s Polymarket and Kalshi taking hold of the popular imagination in a way that is aggressive and seeping into daily life, national sports. Money is more prevalent in the States, so it becomes imperative to learn how it works so you can thusly benefit from earning it. I think with more socialist leaning countries in the EU where rent is (more) affordable and access to programs isn’t dependent on how much you make, there is less of a pressing concern to become an economic wiz.
forgotwhatisaid2you@reddit
I think you are getting a particular demographic of Americans than the average American. Tech Giant and those that go overseas. That is very different than normal Americans. I know several people that have never filled out their own tax forms, even for a 1040ez. The average American is not stock and financially literate. Most don't own stocks and the majority that do are a 401k that they don't really understand.
SteadfastEnd@reddit
In America, there is much less financial safety net if you fail. So you better watch out for yourself to avoid deep debt or financial ruin.
blondie956@reddit
My husband was an economist and federal bank examiner. I know so much more than I even knew was possible. Some of it I can’t explain, but do know how to read the writing on the wall.
buffaloburley@reddit
We don’t
https://www.weforum.org/stories/2024/04/financial-literacy-money-education/
nwbrown@reddit
The vast majority of Americans are not financially literate. The people you are interacting with are not representative of the country as a whole.
Many-Gas-9376@reddit
Just to throw some numbers to this conversations, there's some data available on financial literacy around the world. https://gflec.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/3313-Finlit_Report_FINAL-5.11.16.pdf
Americans aren't doing THAT badly, with 56% classified as financially literate by those scientists' metric. That's behind Canada (68%), Australia (64%) and a handful of the most financially literate of European countries. But ahead of most European countries and well ahead of much of the rest of the world.
("Not that bad" is relative though; that financial literacy questionnaire is pretty elementary and it's shocking that half the adults in many of the richest countries of the world fail it.)
No-Penalty1722@reddit
I think it's drilled into us because of a real lack of a safety net that other countries provide.
Need to be able to pay for an unexpected medical expense. Need to be able to pay the mortgage and the car payment. Want to take a vacation? Better save up a bit so you can afford to miss a couple of days of work if need be.
ophaus@reddit
We worship money here.
KillBologna@reddit
I was taught finance and economics in high school.
AmericanNewt8@reddit
Obviously as others have said it's not a representative group that you have there, but there actually is a lot of truth to this (looking at you, German minister who advocated for more private investment and held all their money in savings). To a large extent I think this is a product of the 1970s and 1980s, the much hated "neoliberal" era, which saw several changes at once.
The first was the emergence of economists as the preeminent American expert class and economics as the favored field of study of the middle to upper class dilettante (or business which is just economics for wusses). This succeeded history and historians which had occupied that role through much of the grand-historical events of the early 20th century, trading Toynbee for Friedman and whatnot. It can't be underestimated that Friedman, Greenspan, and others were legitimate national personalities.
The second was the concurrent emergence of contemporary management thinking, really a succession on old Fordist and Taylorist ideas of the early 20th century. This was both a cause and effect of the great wave of deregulation and free trade that hit the American economy in the late 70s. Suddenly, American manufacturers had to compete with Japanese cars, and American airlines had to compete with new low cost competitors. The messaging was "adapt or die". Some died, but many adapted, a painful period of violent economic churn and great growth. It also was in this era that the modern vision of corporations as in large part dominated by financial services began to emerge, pioneered by Jack Welch. Easy consumer and business credit meant that money was now coming from the financing, less the product itself. Auto manufacturers are banks that make cars, airlines are credit card companies that sometimes take you places.
Third was a massive expansion in consumer financial products and exposure to them. Americans have always been prone to over exuberance and optimism--half the country was founded on land speculation, and it shows. Americans are much, much more comfortable with debt and risks than their European counterparts and will happily plunge right into the thick of it. This was amplified by deliberate policy choices; credit cards are effectively superior to debit in almost all instances in the United States; special carve out investment accounts were created to promote retirement savings, and the longstanding, extremely liberal bankruptcy code means that the downside risk is actually quite low for people and businesses alike. Furthermore keeping at least somewhat up on these things is pretty key to small talk in the professional classes, where you might casually compare credit cards or etf products.
And, although I'm somewhat repeating myself, the "adapt or die" mentality remains strong in American business, propelled by technology and private equity. Private equity serves as the scavengers of the American system, identifying the old and weak businesses that aren't dead yet, then carving off the juicy, viable bits while leaving the rest of the carcass. Naturally, this makes them pretty unpopular, but they do perform an important role, if imperfectly. Tech, on the other hand, views any protected or outdated markets as ripe for disruption, and with extremely deep capital reserves, can usually beat incumbents with sheer speed, mass, and legal firepower, a technique pioneered by Amazon--get big quick, figure everything else out later. Uber is a typical example there--they saw how taxi services were protected by medallions, saw a legal loophole, and then drove a semi through it, burning billions in the process.
NYOB4321@reddit
I think most Americans are not so literate. The subset (corporate employees) you are working with is an exception.
New_Entertainer_4895@reddit
The lack of a retirement system in the US forces upper middle class people to learn these things. No pensions, social security is generally a pittance, interest rates are low so just sticking it in a bank account is useless. Giving your money to someone else to manage is generally restricted to the super rich, so you're forced to learn all this yourself.
Americans can get laid off really easily and unemployment is basically a pittance for an upper middle class person, so you have to budget much more and build up assets to be able to handle multiple months of unemployment. Healthcare costs are bonkers even for upper middle class people, so people are much more thoughtful about saving in investment accounts meant for healthcare costs.
LifeFindsAWhey@reddit
I don't think Americans are particularly financially literate. A significant amount of people are drowning in debt in this country.
MamaMidgePidge@reddit
Maybe the Americans you've met are more literate than a typical American, fir whatever reason.
I work in mortgage lending and have an intereat in personal finance. But I see MANY of my fellow Americans struggling with what I think are pretty basic financial concepts.
xx-rapunzel-xx@reddit
idk anything tbh
but it’s america and we love capitalism and the american dream
europe seems much more relaxed… we could take a note or two from you guys! the “hustle”/finance culture is not really healthy at all
claudiatiedemann@reddit
I grew up with financial literacy because my parents both worked in finance. My husband grew up with none of that. His parents were not financially responsible and neither was anyone around him. He learned it all himself but only after he filed bankruptcy and was obligated to take financial literacy classes. Many Americans have no financial literacy and are living on credit cards with no money saved, even those making a decent income.
CultofEight27@reddit
Not sure the number of people with 5 figures of credit card debt would agree with that statement.
But generally the sense I get is that we are constantly trying to work around scams and budget our way in difficult situations, pressure makes diamonds or whatever…
We have a first world economy with a third world social safety net. One has to learn to make their own way because there’s not much help.
gardenfiendla8@reddit
You're interacting with American tech workers and it might be a skewed sample. Americans in tech usually have compensation packages heavily tied to the performance of the company. As such, financial literacy is pretty baked into the culture of tech, whether it be at the business or personal level.
As for the median American, I don't think they have any higher level of literacy or experience as your average European.
Cerulean_IsFancyBlue@reddit
There may be an actual difference, but you also might want to consider that you’re talking about a different population set. On the one hand, you have a set of American employees who have been specifically selected to be sent to Europe, presumably because they have specific expertise or leadership. And you may be comparing them to the average worker at your company or just you and your friends.
NecessaryLight2815@reddit
We don’t have pensions. We are responsible for our retirement from the day we graduate from high school. That put the fear of god in me, for sure. I check my 401k every day lol.
Blue_9320_@reddit
Most Americans are financially illiterate, your situation is unique.
MVHood@reddit
My company in the US was bought by some Brits. They will hem and haw over minutiae while pretending the building is on fire. And the way no one says anything of substance ever. No one has an opinion on anything. It’s so infuriating.
ubiquitous-joe@reddit
I mean we also spend like $190 billion on sports betting last year when statistically it is a moronic thing for the vast majority of betters to spend their money on, so we ain’t that financially literate…
AndreaTwerk@reddit
We have almost no safety net.
Social Security is not comparable to other public pension systems. If you aren’t planning well for retirement you will end up next to destitute.
GercektenGul@reddit
Our government doesn't take care of us so unless rich, we learn to do it ourselves or else.
Tefflator@reddit
Wait till you meet some East Asians.
kamon405@reddit
It's mostly because if you aren't financially literate to a small degree our govt will allow you to die on the streets homeless.
Fruitopia07@reddit
Stocks are the safest thing to talk about and bond over with my coworkers in all companies I worked for. The ones not doing so well financially I wouldn’t be working with.
MiserableMemory5149@reddit
Surviving in a hypercapitalist society requires some basic degree of financial literacy
Jumpingyros@reddit
I’m sure there are many factors. I suspect that one of them is that for Americans, our ability to retire is on us. Social security is not even close to being enough to live on, and very few jobs offer pensions. We probably get some matched funds from work for a 401k, but that’s it, and we have to figure out where and how to invest that money on our own. If you ever want to retire in America you need to know how to invest and what all the different investment vehicle are.
My understanding is in most of Europe you have government backed retirement schemes of some sort that are actually enough to survive on. Overachiever Europeans might want to invest further if they want more luxury, but it’s not a matter of survival. In the US if you want to stop working you need to have funded your own retirement.
Dangerous_Midnight91@reddit
Because we have more to worry about. Retirement, college and healthcare are not guaranteed and if you’re not on top of your finances you’re screwed and your kids are screwed.
Low-Landscape-4609@reddit
I personally don't know but you are absolutely correct. About 95% of my coworkers always lived paycheck to paycheck and had terrible financial management.
They had homes that were too big, vehicles that were too big and spent crazy amounts of money on stuff they didn't need.
Not to mention, most Americans have an extreme amount of credit card debt. Terrible at financial management.
samurai_for_hire@reddit
Our retirement literally depends on it. Pensions are very rare nowadays so most people have a deferred-tax investment account that will fund their retirement. Companies will usually match our contributions up to a certain percentage of our salary.
old-town-guy@reddit
Because the US isn’t a nanny state. If you don’t learn about these things, American society becomes very unforgiving and you really suffer.
ChadtheBull_@reddit
From the moment an american picks up their phone or steps outside we are bombarded with advertisements. We have cameras tracking your car to see where you go, vending machines that record your face when you select a beverage, and seemingly harmless technology that's recording your voice searching for keywords. All of these get combined to make a consumer profile of yourself to better help marketers design ways to grab your attention.
Our entire economy is dependent on extracting as much money from the working man as possible, and legislatures are bribed to enable this.
Xiij@reddit
There might be a bit of selection bias as you only saw the people who were competent enough at the job to be selected for transfer, and dedicated enough to accept.
PhastasFlames@reddit
You have to take into account that the people being sent overseas by their companies are usually their better employees.
ATLien_3000@reddit
This article from last year touches on it.
You're calling it "finance", but I think it's what you said that I quoted.
American business is quick and nimble. European is bureaucratic.
The article has some data points - how much older high value European companies are vs American ones, for instance.
BeltlineJunkie@reddit
You will have a "grade A bad time" if you don't have money in most places in the USA, so anyone looking to avoid that is going to have a stake in understanding it.
Might be able to survive half decent without that in parts of UK and europe?
Iwentforalongwalk@reddit
It's a matter of survival in old age. We must learn how to manage and invest our money wisely because our Social Security is nice but it's not nearly enough to live in when retired. We have to plan for our own financial future. Also in tech high salaries really can drive the ability to retire early if you are smart about your money.
Ppt_Sommelier69@reddit
When you are financially responsible for yourself with limited government safety nets, then people with moderate means are more likely to build their financial acumen.
dystopiadattopia@reddit
Because the system is designed to fuck you, and you'd better learn quick how things work or you'll be in a world of shit
secderpsi@reddit
Our social safety nets are relatively small. We have to be savvy with our money so we don't end up destitute.
MuppetManiac@reddit
My school required a semester of economics my senior year. Half the semester was devoted to macro economics, and half the year to micro economics, otherwise known as personal finance. It was required for graduation. I also had units on the stock market in 4th, 5th and 7th grades. Math classes integrated information about calculating interest. And that was my basic public school education before I even got to university.
My question is why wouldn’t you teach these things in school?
AZJHawk@reddit
We have to. Our retirement depends on it.
ViXaAGe@reddit
because our social safety net doesn't exist so we want the companies that we sell ourselves to to do well so we can have things like health insurance and food consistently
Same reason domestic cats can't hunt like feral ones. Needs are met, skills are needed
kangadac@reddit
To be well off in America, you need to be financially literate. Retirement savings and health insurance are two items you have to take care of on your own here.
Knowing what is and what isn’t tax deductible can make a huge difference in your net income.
WentzWorldWords@reddit
Americans are obsessed with money because of subconscious propaganda. When learning in the public school system, Every mathematic word problem includes or references money. Elementary school learning-based games use phony money. Teachers give fake classroom bucks for rewards. Algebra teachers demonstrate how x*y^3/6 can relate to money. Students have to pass financial literacy courses in order to graduate. Then in college, courses like economics and accounting are required for graduation.
Or, you know a very small sample size that made professional careers in finance. Come to middle America and walk around a Walmart for an afternoon - you might change your mind
aromaticdust98@reddit
Personally theory. Were all in debt, close to debt, been in debt before. So weve all had to manage, balance or get out of it and through doing that weve gotten to learn about finances and economics. Plus theres classes in school about finances.
I_CANT_SEE@reddit
I think it's really important to note that you're working with white-collar, tech-corporate Americans, who aren't representative of the general American population as I'd argue Americans are not financially literate
ucbiker@reddit
Yeah like half the country voted for a guy who’s economic plan was “kick out all the cat-eating immigrants,” and like half of the rest of the people think we should just institute nationwide rent control so yeah, I don’t think of Americans as particularly financially literate.
I mean not better or worse than other nations but not financially literate.
soap---poisoning@reddit
We have more to gain and more to lose. Someone with a modest income who makes smart financial decisions can end up moderately wealthy by retirement age. However, another person with that exact same income who makes bad financial decisions can end up dirt poor in their old age, living on nothing but a meager social security check from the government.
Also, keep in mind that the people you are meeting are not “average.” The well-educated, financially savvy tech workers you meet are balanced out by high school dropouts who lives in their parents’ basements and waste their minimum wage income on vapes, lotto tickets, and online entertainment. You’re not likely to meet those people working overseas.
awfulcrowded117@reddit
I think you may be having an isolated unusual experience. Either that or European are somehow even worse at economics and finances than Americans in which case wow, that's impressive.
NukeDaBurbz@reddit
You’re not dealing with the average American…
Big-Profit-1612@reddit
I'm a money crazed little shit so yeah.
Endy0816@reddit
I'd say many are generally more knowledgeable, but you are also dealing with those towards the upper end of things.
There is more of a general culture of investing and entrepreneurship here.
Prestigious-Talk1112@reddit
American society is a big corporation itself. Our culture sadly revolves around money, working, making money and spending money. Top topics of conversation are what you do for a living, top dating questions are, how much do you make, what car do you drive or what do you bring to the table America is big on business. Kids are groomed to admire hustle and hard work. Our government eshews social safetynets because Americans need the freedom to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. There is good and a lot of bad to our culture. Our government views us as commodities.
Slight_Manufacturer6@reddit
The American Dream.
We all want to be rich
InevitableRhubarb232@reddit
It probably more likely has to do with the people who are employees of that company. You’re asking why people that are highly trained in employees at an expensive high tech company are well-versed in finances?
Have you ever talked to someone who has a 26% eight year car loan? Because they also exist here and they are not getting any job jobs at your company.
Competitive_Box6719@reddit
It always has been bb
oldhellenyeller@reddit
You have to be financially literate to survive over here
TheOwlMarble@reddit
Can't speak for everyone, but I had required economics courses in both high school and college.
Aggravating-Dig783@reddit
I am pretty sure that American tech giant has stock and options compensation. So one HAS to be literate in investing. Stock compensation in the US is often quite a bit bigger than salary.
MetalEnthusiast83@reddit
“In my country we are good. Why are you bad?0
angrysquirrel777@reddit
This is the opposite lol
dirENgreyscale@reddit
Forgive them, this is an unusual scenario for Americans. On Reddit it’s always why are we bad, it was probably reflexive.
mitshoo@reddit
There’s two things to consider here:
1) People might know more than you, but less than they think they do/less than they should. A lot of people think they have stocks figured out, for example. But they could be wrong. 2) To the extent that Americans do know about these things, I would say it’s probably less indicative of some virtue we have as a country and more the result of how much you have to “hustle” as they say. It’s not exactly cutthroat, but Americans know that we are largely our own when it comes to financial security; our government is extremely reluctant to provide a “social safety net.” So we have to learn about these things as a sort of existential defense. If we don’t, then we don’t get a retirement. It’s not like places you work just set up pensions for you anymore. Those days are long gone.
Meowmixalotlol@reddit
Always funny when Redditors who read this websites propaganda realize most Americans aren’t dumb.
willtag70@reddit
You shouldn't generalize to most Americans based on your experience with those select individuals. Chances sound high that the people you are observing are more highly educated than typical, and may well be more motivated and have resources for investments. There is an overall societal emphasis on being ambitious, consumerism, and gaining wealth, but many, I would say a majority are not very financially literate or smart with their money.
steinerific@reddit
I can assure you that Americans in general are not very financially literate. You are clearly dealing with a skewed sampling based on your industry.
TiFist@reddit
You have a self-selecting group who are competent enough to work at a tech giant and work as an expat.
If we're not financially literate, we might starve to death. Social safety nets are very thin.
0le_Hickory@reddit
Lack of socialism here. Most retirement plans now are purely stocks now. So most people have at least passing knowledge of stocks now.
Several-Buy-3017@reddit
Less bureaucracy and easier access to credit. Also less reliance on government programs by working Americans. I looked into buying property in Ireland and was awestruck of how ham fisted the lenders were. They only cared about salary and didn’t give a damn about investment portfolios or other forms of collateral. This may not seem important, but it discourages investment by normal working people and hinders their ability to buy new homes. Hence lots of Europeans don’t learn about basic financial decisions.
peabody_soul109@reddit
Because we all got a budget for our healthcare cost.
ezekiel920@reddit
Im financially a toddler.
twoshirts@reddit
Because we have such a crappy safety net, we need to be more financial literate. Or it may be that this company just attracts individuals who are very financially literate.
whyisthissticky@reddit
One reason is because our healthcare system sucks so bad it can financially ruin us. Medical debt is the number one reason for bankruptcy. Also there are plenty of Americans who aren’t financially literate.
Pencil-Sketches@reddit
Capitalism does not want common folk to be financially literate, or even sound. The more people mismanage money, the more they go into debt. The more they go into debt, the more money a creditor can make, along with the manufacturer and retailer. If people manage money well, they save more and spend less, and capitalism gets upset.
Brennisth@reddit
Part of it is how generalist our education is...people don't really specialize until 2nd year of college (year 14 of education, 16 if you did pre-K and kindergarten) so almost everyone will have had a class in business or economics at some point along the way. The other part is how much we NEED to save for ourselves; social nets for healthcare and retirement aren't particularly robust (many would say non existent), so basic financial literacy is considered a fundamental requirement to be remotely self-sufficient. We tend to be more credit driven (credit cards, car loans, mortgages, etc) as opposed to pay as you go (renting, cash, debit cards, etc.), which means our money inherently has a "time value" beyond inflation ("If my student loan debt is only 3 percent, then paying off my house that's 6 percent is saving money, but if I can get 8 percent return on investment I can make enough money to pay both but almost keep up with inflation".)
WOTrULookingAt@reddit
funny, I always thought the rising generations sucked at this, but I guess they don't, so thanks for proving me wrong.
Money is our life here, that's why we're so rich... and we we suck so bad at taking care of our people. We worship money, like as much as you can. So everyone thinks about it a lot.
I think Germany is smarter and winning. Most of the country seems to get August off of work. We are not smart enough to do that in the states.
Ok-Race-1677@reddit
Our government doesn’t black box everything from us for the greater good.
They do rig the rules though but that’s a different issue lol.
Jub1982@reddit
Capitalism
carlos_the_dwarf_@reddit
Right, which they famously don’t have in Europe 🙄
PBRStreetgang1979@reddit
Fair point. But I think they seem to keep commerce in perspective in Europe, balancing it with other facets of life, whereas it is so much more forward in American culture. I guess one has the opportunity to learn more about business when, for example, your stores are open 24/7/365 versus limited hours on weekdays and seldom on weekends.
OkContract2001@reddit
I mean, not in the ruthless free market hellscape way we have in the US.
PoetAny6521@reddit
This is gonna blow your mind, but most of Europe also has capitalist economies…
Alarmed-Extension289@reddit
The term "financially literacy" needs to be changed to financially irresponsiblity, that's what it is. Yeah there's people that don't understand loans need to be paid back with interest but the majority do and simply don't care.
OpeningChipmunk1700@reddit
Disposable income, lack of reliance on welfare systems (because they exist to a much lesser extent), cultural values of independence and responsibility, and a cultural virtue of excellence are all probably factors
One-Hand-Rending@reddit
Because it’s a life and death thing for us…
Mismanage money and you can’t afford health insurance and then you die.
Mismanage money and you can’t afford to live to an old age and then you die.
Ya learn quick under those conditions. :)
JoeMorgue@reddit
Why is every question here just a badly veiled "Durr why ameircan stu7pid and bad?"
No-Contact6664@reddit
We have to manage our own retirement savings.
MadMadamMimsy@reddit
Expats are a special breed. They are brighter and mire savvy than the average bear
InterviewLeast882@reddit
“The business of America is business.” -President Calvin Coolidge
YNABDisciple@reddit
You're meeting the exceptions.
Electrical-Ad1288@reddit
Lots of people are underpaid and the safety net is not as strong. Diversified income is a necessity, not just nice to have.
uncloseted_anxiety@reddit
You ever see American Psycho?
OldDudeOpinion@reddit
Or American Beauty? “I’m going to sell this house today” (as Annette Benning takes off her corporate drip and scrubs it clean in h er underwear). = American work ethic.
ScotchyT@reddit
Trickle down economics.
xSparkShark@reddit
Small sample size, employees working for an American tech giant are not your average American. High achieving Americans are highly financially literate because it’s honestly not that hard to learn and is extremely valuable knowledge. Also a (un)healthy dose of capitalism and entrepreneurial mindset baked into the American identity
Ceorl_Lounge@reddit
If we don't the Dread Beast Capitalism eats us, our kids and our future.
markedforless@reddit
It’s seen as humiliating and a personal failing if you’re poor in this country. Advertisers realized that and marketers at finance companies ran with it; the financial “literacy” you’re describing is actually an increase of risk tolerance caused desperation and commercials about how any moron cna invest wisely.
allmediocrevibes@reddit
I think youre experiencing a bit of bias here. From my understanding, youre mostly interacting with college degree holders. Most of those folks were required to take economics classes are part of their gen ed requirement.
PerformanceDouble924@reddit
Because the social safety net in America is constantly under threat, so if you want to retire comfortably, you'd better invest.
tzweezle@reddit
Are they?
44035@reddit
Because our heads aren't full of pesky knowledge like history, geography, philosophy, or art. It's just money money money over here.
GSilky@reddit
You are talking with the best and brightest. We don't usually send the average American overseas for work.
Broad-Cranberry-9050@reddit
Most arent. but you are talking about a tech giant. THey are amazing at it.
I've been in companies that got bought out and the drastic change in benefits, reviews, etc was insane.
But america being such a capitlist country, it is kind of embedded in the way we think of how to grow our money. Again, most of us are not literate, but becuase USA tends to move the global economy so much we do try to learn how it works. Everywhere we go it gets embedded in us, grow your stocks, get a 401k and retirement accounts, etc. Even if we dont fully understand it we try to .
Alaska2Maine@reddit
We don’t have much of a social safety net. If you’re poor in the US, things are extremely difficult. Instead of a safety net, we have tax advantaged accounts and the such that benefits the middle and upper middle class. So you have to use these financial vehicles if you want to stay ahead
CaptainTegg@reddit
Its easier to exploit a new company you just bought if you know how to do it.
EmploymentEmpty5871@reddit
Its how they were raised. .only is important to a lot of people, so they get good at managing and knowing about money.
HardLithobrake@reddit
Median savings per capita ranged from $5000-8000 as of 2022 federal reserve data.
Most aren't.
Gold_Criticism_8072@reddit
We take finance classes in school
Money can be tight, so people tend to teach themselves a lot about stock trading, as a means of having a higher income
Aggravating-Key-8867@reddit
That's funny because I, an American, do not think that we are actually literate - financially or otherwise.
HeebiJeebies@reddit
Only for corporate Americans. The rest of the country lives off credit and are in debt from student loans, expensive cars, and healthcare.
Traditional-Photo227@reddit
We like our independence. Therefore, we like having money. Therefore, we like keeping our money. Therefore, we like growing our money.
Wunktacular@reddit
We learn it. We take personal finance classes and similar things in school. We do our own taxes, so we need to understand them.
RelevantJackWhite@reddit
most of them lived through a global recession and were forced to learn it to explain what was going on