It’s that the kids growing up with Cars 2 are now getting to a age that yes. That was a impactful movie for their childhood . I listen to this podcast that things Ron Howard’s The Grinch was garbage for me that is great movie . A few years from now some iPad kid will talk about How The Emoji movie was their childhood or wreck it Ralph 2 was a masterpiece
I really don't think anyone unironically sees them as like brilliant movies, they've just come to appreciate the series and the elements that were actually great.
Or the clone wars. "Bro its so dark why does everyone say its a kids cartoon" as if most of us werent committing genocide with our LEGOs, then later in the older GTAs, and all that before we even knew our dicks can get hard. I feel like all the clone sloppers just grew up really sheltered and knew what violence was before 15. Filoni is extremely overrated too, just look at the book of boba
I believe the case with prequels is "great ideas, poor execution"
The clumsy dialogue and overused cgi will gradually fade away from memory, while the idea of a hero falling from grace while a grand Republic falls into dictatorship will remain captivating
Personally, I like not so much prequels per se, but rather the idea of prequels - and the media that expands on said idea(books, Clone Wars etc)
Tom Stoppard, George Lucas’s go-to ghost writer, is a pretty legendary playwright who specializes in ambiguity and double meaning. Lucas couldn’t have written the opera scene (in which Palpatine tells Anakin a parable that could refer to any of his three rumored parentages equally, yet refuses to confirm any of them) himself.
RoTS is objectively the best Star Wars film. The dialogue is a bit shaky in the 1st half an hour but so was a lot of the dialogue in Empire Strikes Back.
I had to rewatch TPM in the original english to get why people hate it so much. Just like with saving the original Star Wars in the editing room, TPM can be much improved by a decent translation/voicetrack.
Iirc Tatooine became several times more engaging by having jar jar, kid anakin and a handful of other characters talk with less inflection. This is especially important because anakin and jar jar are carrying each one of the 4 climactic sequences at the end of the movie.
Doesn't transform it into high art, but even trash can be fun and engaging, and TPM can achieve that. AOTC cannot, with all those exceedingly long and awkward non-love scenes in the middle. I once heard Anakin and Padme having less chemistry than a chair stacked on another chair in that film and I can't express it better.
I think Grinch 2000 genuinely plays better today than it did on release because it’s not an aberration anymore. The gaudy ugly-cute aesthetic and the over the top cartoonishness mixed with extreme cynicism didn’t have a big cultural foothold at the time, especially in things aimed at a kid and family audience.
Grinch 2000 is basically doing SpongeBob in live action, in a moment before SpongeBob had become the dominant cultural voice of its era in family entertainment.
I only hear this sentiment from 1 of 2 types of people: terminally brainrotted movie critics that watch 500 movies a year and lash out due to burnout, or people who haven't kept up with cinema in 20 years. There's some good fucking movies lately, and there were some good movies in the past. It's crazy how that works.
Cars 2 is the only movie in the trilogy that would be fundamentally different if you make the characters humans instead of living cars. As dumb as the movie may be, it absolutely takes the premise of a world of living cars and goes the distance with it
Yeah, my opinion as well. Hell, at least it’s creative and does need to try and pull the already repeated *ad nauseam* “same basic plot as the first movie but the protagonist is old and has lost his shine” formula.
The main ingredient is time with pay
Jackson planning and pre-planning for years before cameras rolled for Fellowship
Battle of the five kings movie had hundreds of actors wasting days filming B-roll because the script wasn't even finished
I love when people say "cope" because they can't come up with an actual rebuttal themselves. You should start actually using your brain again instead of turning to LLMs for every thought and feeling you have. You're gonna be a zombie in a few years.
LOTR has definitely been deified with age, but isn't that how it always was? It's kind of like saying the Beatles or David Bowie were just pop culture for normies.
Still yet to hear anyone actually say what was wrong about my comment. I even showed great restraint in not bringing up the whole "bigger than Jesus" thing.
The deification refers to the subject moving from pop culture for normies to high art. In their own time Beatles were the poppiest pop to ever pop, with lunchboxes and shit.
No serious hipster/art connoisseur of the time ever sat down to listen to Beatles on their high end audio system, and then write an article on the sophisticated artistry of song #12398 that's an euphemism for sex.
With time, this has changed.
There is no such thing as beauty. Its a term coined to differentiate and value based on made-up criteria.
There is no such thing as intelligence. Its a term coined to differentiate and value based on made-up criteria.
There is no such thing as morals. Its a term coined to differentiate and value based on made-up criteria.
I hope you appreciate how mentally regarded you sound.
You can disagree, but just applying my words to other terms isn't a compelling argument. High art lacks any reasonable criteria for why one should call it high. The adjective invokes emotions that this kind of art is better, more valuable (not financially) or more refined but there isn't any factual basis to that; Is it high because only a small fraction of humans is interested in? Thats niche, not high. Is it high because only those of a certain status have access to it? Thats exclusive, which isn't even a good thing. Is it high because it takes a a great deal of effort to create? Thats monumental, as the LotR films indeed are. Is it high because it takes a high skill to craft? That would be an appropriate qualifier, but its usually not the one that is used to differentiate high art from other art.
Does it take a certain level of understanding to enjoy? That would be another valid qualifier and its coming close, but this is still not really whats about; a physics joke takes a good understanding of the underlying principles that are played on by the joke, but I don't think it counts as high art.
So what constitutes high art? High art is an extremely subjective term applied by a certain personality type to art as a way to differentiate the art and, more importantly, the enjoyer of this art from others. In certain areas as classical music, some book genres and even some movie genres high art is propagated by these personality types and generally accepted by others as a sort of natural classism. It gives those enjoying the art a rush of interacting with something deemed valuable and intellectual, giving a feeling of belonging to some kind of elite. Whereas the other side can feel content with knowing that high art isn't for them but for some stuffy intellectuals. It pleases both sides emotionally, which is why the distinction is so popular.
I could have told you these thoughts just by asking for them, by the way. No need for a weak attempt at an insult.
No, mostly because what makes LOTR good is not just because you enjoyed it when you were young but because the film makers made monitor models of all the great cities and landscapes. Which, because they are detailed models of actual objects, makes them withstand the age of time which cgi cannot due to the inherent nature of the technology advancing
I don't agree quite with that first sentiment. The LOTR trilogy won 17 academy awards. They were considered masterpieces when they were released as well.
The reason they are still considered great is because they have stood the test of time so well. The same is true with The Beatles and Zeppelin and Hendrix, etc.
They were considered great then, and they are still held in high esteem, giving them more credence since they have been considered great for so long.
LOTR were hailed as masterpieces even when they came out, it’s not like they won a ton of Oscars for nothing. When something starts out that great it tends to hold up better over time than many of its contemporaries.
Oldies will agree with me that since the first time we saw LOTR in the theatre, most us we knew it was an absolute masterpiece for the ages.
I bet that older people than me can tell you the same for the Godfather or
I mean Shakespeare was considered a beyond shit, lowest of brows normieslop in his time. Things that even an illiterate peasant with his face covered in manure would find funny. His comedies were like Scary Movie is today.
Shit smeared peasants like uh Queen Elizabeth I who regularly commissioned his company to perform in her court in his early career before Liz's death. Or perhaps in his later career when poo licking commoners like Queen Anne was a patron of his company.
Oh I thought boy that's gonna be great that in a couple of hundred years people will be saying that Trump was a genius because he was the POTUS. The argument with Lizzy makes even less sense because she was born into it.
My point isn't that Elizabeth I was a genius, that's entirely beside the point. The point is that when he was alive Shakespeare wasn't considered low brow -- he was art for the highest of high society in England.
Elizabeth I was a genius statesman btw, it was largely through her domestic policy that England developed into a superpower of the early-modern period, and she laid the groundwork for reunification of Great Brittan, though that's still entirely unrelated to whether Shakespeare was considered to be high art or not.
Shakespeare was actually very much like a Spielberg or Coppola: he made a mix of highbrow intellectual/art pieces (aimed at private court audiences, who kept him paid), and astonishingly good middlebrow/mainstream works (aimed at the London public).
Shakespeare’s more elevated pieces don’t get much play, since they were less concerned with audience appeal than with elegant use of language and appealing to the highbrow literary trends. They’re often written in rhyming verse throughout and contain lengthy poetic interludes or philosophical debates, the sorts of things the royal court found amusing. Other than “Love’s Labours Lost,” you’re not likely to see his court works done much unless you’re looking for them.
On the other hand, his middlebrow works were primarily the same genres we enjoy today: romantic comedy, fantasy adventures, revenge stories or political/war epics. This climaxed in his patron Queen Elizabeth requesting Shakespeare not write another highbrow piece, but maybe his lowest of the middlebrow: “The Merry Wives of Windsor,” where the funny sidekick from the Henry trilogy sets out to be a ladies’ man and fails terribly at it. (I believe it even includes one of the first uses of “cuck” as a verb for sexual humiliation, that’s the kind of show it is.)
Milton and Shakespeare were not contemporaries. Shakespeare died when Milton was 8 years old, not to mention that Milton's most acclaimed works were the ones from near the end of his life.
Thomas Middleton and John Fletcher are the two I can think of, though I’m not sure how they were viewed by the public, only that they were big around the same time as Shakespeare.
Me when I spread misinformation
The audiences that watched a Shakespeare theatre company production yeah had commoners and peasants covered in shit mostly but it had wealthy nobles and royalty too.
If you were uneducated you could feel emotion from the actors speaking the words and if you were educated you’d also pick up the deeper meaning from the dialogue itself.
Wasn’t that kinda what made his stuff so legendary tho? It was both full of scat jokes for the commoners and peasants and high brow puns and allusions n shit for those of higher status like the king
>It was both full of scat and sex jokes for the commoners and peasants while having high brow puns and allusions n shit that the educated would understand.
Yeah, well, so is Shrek.
Thats absolutely false. His patrons were Earls, other nobility, and then the king himself. His plays contained both low brow humor (peepee poopoo jokes) and high brow humor (puns and references that only the nobility would have really understood).
The fact that you used comedy and referenced Scary Movie, instead of farce, shows youre not to be taken seriously in this discussion.
Most of the reason for that wasn’t for the quality of the writing, it was because LOTR was an anti-modernist work that was released in a time where modernism dominated literature. So much of the criticism was an ideological dispute.
It's quite heavy with mythology and there is a lot going on. Cognitive load is higher than usual in the first read. Took me several goes to fully appreciate it.
> Final Fantasy 16
It's horrible slop wearing skinsuit of great series.
- one playable character instead of whole team
- mmo style quests "bring me 3 wood"
- no reward for exploration, literally giving you 3 gil when everything costs thousands
- gear is all just stright upgrades, not actual itemization
- removes most basic features every FF game had, like elements mattering. you can damage fire enemy with fire
- action game that has 1(one) combo. four squares and triangle, that is it
It came out around the time GOW: rangarok did. That used to be mash square action game but in ragnarok you have different gear builds and more RPG elements and builds than FF XVI has. That is just crazy.
Bottom because it is shadow of what it used to be. Same as Dragon Age.
I'm not talking about you in particular because I don't know you but recently I realized why so few people know this - the good FF games were released so long ago that most people discussing FF now on reddit weren't even alive when they came out.
FFX came out in 2001. Let's say you have to be at least 10 to meangfully experience it. You would be 35 now. And that's the last good one it's even worse for previous ones.
Yeah but XIV being MMO I view it as different category.
Honestly I never unerstood why they numbered the MMOs. Plenty of spinoff FF games with subtitle instead of the number.
Because making it numbered makes FF fans feel obligated to at least try it so they've played every one. Final Fantasy Online 2 wouldn't have nearly the draw.
Remember a MMO is infinitely more difficult and expensive to launch and maintain compared to a mostly-singleplayer fighter or rhythm game.
I know you never said, but judging by the other commenter's replies (mentioning Concord and some "masculine lesbian knight" game), they were saying that modern RPG games are bad because "woke".
We can focus on this one if you want, one of the recent ones.
https://preview.redd.it/6352tm3gwepg1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c05bcd2cd437a79c62f2f5a1918f6308bc6f0ed0
Literally never heard of that game in my life. I could easily go find 100 games that are "anti woke" that I've also never heard of and got even less than 427 players if you'd like.
There have always been bad games, not just recently.
Remember all the rushed movie tie-in games, like E.T. (E)xterminating A(t)ari, and Gears of Potter?
And there have always been good games, as well. And always will be.
Expedition was 'what if Final Fantasy but French'. Metaphor is 'let's remix SMT but Fantasy this time'.
Outstanding games, I'm 10 hours in on 33 and I really enjoy it, and I loved Metaphor. But they do stand on giants.
They certainly have their inspirations, I was mainly focused on listing modern RPGs that don't fit the bottom part of the image in the other person's comment
What are you even talking about? LOTR was a phenomenon back then, dominated the awards, dominated the box-office. It's still by far the highest gold standard when it comes to epic fantasy movies. If you have to revise history to make a point, then it's a weak point.
It was one of those phenomena where everyone just knew the next film was going to be just as jaw-dropping and amazing as the previous one. Kind of crazy to think back on. It really felt like we all knew this trilogy would be held as the pinnacle of fantasy cinema before it was even completed.
Obviously, it was never a given. But it's like looking back at a band and you can't help but feel that Prince was destined to make Purple Rain exactly the way it turned out, like looking back at Michael Jackson's career with the feeling that Thriller was inevitable.
yeah there was a sense of inevitability that is pretty rare in general, not just in movies. You're right though, there was zero (or very little) cynicsm in regards to each release, and you just knew it was going to be an amazing ride.
LotR was a rare moment where normie pop culture and high art converged, they were indeed Uber successful but film nerds were jorking their penitsis about the writing, cinematography, and practical effects.
There's still good art being made all the time, it just doesn't often converge with pop culture, you can't go watch summer blockbuster 39 and expect anything but shlock. I'm way behind on movies from 2025 (though The Phoenician Scheme was excellent), but in 2024 we had so much great cinema -- The Substance, Anora, Conclave, The Brutalist, and Dune 2 were all amazing. Now that I'm thinking about it Conclave and Dune were pop culture successes too, though not to the same scale as LotR.
Anon should try watching more movies. Just because you only watch superhero slop doesn't mean other movies don't exist anymore. Plenty of indie studios still making kino, they just won't be on the front page of Netflix.
LOTR is an exception that’s an accomplishment in filmmaking that broke into the mainstream. But this also opened the door to reevaluating any above average film as an overlooked masterpiece.
Saying something from the past is good, only in relation to what’s coming out nowadays is slopflation.
Return of the king is tied with godfather 2 for having the highest clean sweep of Oscars for which it was nominated (11 iirc). It was considered a pretty amazing movie at the time.
I'll admit though my appreciation of it and everything it did grows every time I see it
Ive seen some pretty damn good new movies and shows but if you look into the past its not just constant hits. We have the benefit of filtering out what is good over time so selections made from the past are, of course, the best ones that generation has to offer.
I think the biggest problem with modern media is its too self aware, self referential and politically influenced. It completely takes you out of the world they are building by constantly reminding you of either previous movies or current politics. And i dont mean putting women in a show. i mean giving the characters modern sensibilities. For example as if some black dude riding up to a victorian estate wont immediately be called out. I mean those people were interested in phrenology and shit. Telling me the wont constantly be looking over their shoulder thinking hell steal the silverware?? Nah. The writins deliberatly put that character there to be a good example and encourage the youth to be tolerant unstead of telling a story.
And that is bullshit. Not because its not honorable to want equality but because you are working with a studio and spending millions to send that message that will fall on deaf ears instead of donating to the ALCU or supporting programs that might actually help minorities in a direct way. Micheal Jackson, the most popular artist of all time, sang constantly about peace and loving each other and it aint taught anyone shit. Make your art, tell a good story but dont think your preaching is saving anyone and dont preach at the behest of your story.
Movies today aren't all better or worse than Cars 2, the people defending it just watched it as kids and are now grown up and have some nostalgic attachment to it. I speak from experience because I still regularly listen to Finn McMissile's theme.
Same with videogames.
FNAF is praised today, but it is a mediocre stupid jumpscare factory with a mildly original concept.
Metal Gear Rising too. The gameplay itself is mid as fuck compared to other action games of its kind, but the characters are so charismatic and so memeable, and the music is so good that you can forgive it.
People have a hard time admitting that the games they were nostalgic for mayve were not that great. It's OK to enjoy them, but admit its flaws with honesty dammit.
Rewatched RotK recently. For films that are very famous and revered for their real sets, in-camera effects, and large number of extras instead of relying on CGI, there is a huge amounts of poorly aged CGI and soundstage work.
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