I just pray to Zeus almighty that they respect history and don't glorify these people. Alexander the Great was a violent alcoholic mama's boy who had major daddy issues
Why did you feel the need to interpret history through todays lens? Things that seem absurd to us might have been the norm back then. This applies to the historical figures of every nation.
It's not through a modern lens, it's that I am sick of Westerners glorifying our warmongers while ignoring people who made a peaceful impact.
Greece succeeded most when they were peaceful and learned from others. Not when they were rampaging.
And what did we do to our heroes like Bouboulina lmao. Something something scapegoat shooting death after exile.
I'm sorry, I am not about to say our peak civilization moment was our War for Independence, which did not even free/save much of Greece including Macedonia, Thrace, and Anatolia.
My Macedonian family's hometown of Katerini was not liberated until 1912. My East Thrakian family faced the Greek Genocide about a decade later
"And what did we do to our heroes like Bouboulina lmao". You're saying it like it invalidates my point, which it doesn't. You just wanted to write a cheap comeback.
And so what if the War of Independence didn't free up your region? Mine also wasn't freed, Thessaly, up until 60 years later. But still, a Greek nation war born.
No, I am just against nationalistic sentiment that glorifies war. The reason why Greeks learned architecture, math, etc. is because we peacefully had scholars learn from other nations.
My family has lots of people who served in several Greek wars and served well, and they came home to devastation with their pregnant wives dead from malaria while they themselves had horrible untreated PTSD while the town labeled them as loonies and shunned them.
Sure, some of our scholars learned from other nations, at the very early years at least. While all wars are ugly, the Greek War of Independence was necessary to a large extent for a Greek nation to exist.
And I never argued it wasn't. However, it was not the peak of our nation either and again, we treated our war heroes like dirt while a lot of civilians died.
You're telling me you can waltz around Greece with all of our fancy sculptures, architecture, history, and you decide that the War of 1821 was our peak?
The concept of us united as one nation is brand spanking new, but I don't think our highlight moment in history was us shifting to modern country terminologies.
I never said the war of 1821 was our peak. Maybe I made the mistake of considering it as success in the same you meant it as in civilization, culture and art.
I should have clarified it in the sense as successful in creating our country that we live on to this day.
I understand your point, but you re dismissing him as just an alcoholic when you're talking about Alexander the great. We re talking about a man who changed the entire course of history.
I actually have a minor in art history and it is well documented he murdered one of his friends, Cleitus the Black, in a drunken rage. It's well-known he and his father Philip II were alcoholics.
That's a very biased way to put this.
My point is that historical figures need to be viewed as complex human beings with real flaws in order to have a more holistic view on them, and history as a whole.
Alexander the Great is literally from 30 minutes away from Katerini. I have family named after him. But that being said, he was not just a great warrior. Like many great warriors at the time, he responded to stress through drinking.
Hell yeah go team Macedonia, we've got Mt. Olympus AND Mt. Athos babyyyyy! We collect all the holy mountains and put them right in the best region of Greece
That is true and Alexander was certainly arguably one of the "better" warmongers. But there are just so many better Greek queer stories to tell that are relatable and impactful. Diocles was a victim of incest by his mother and Philolaus helped him escape Corinth. And then Socrates established protecting students from abuse by fighting against pedastry
Diocles was the winner of the 13th Olympics, a victim of incest by his mother who repeatedly abused him. Philolaus was a lawyer who fell in love with Diocles, and helped him run away to Thebes. Then, Philolaus literally rewrote the law to allow for their marriage to be recognized legally via civil union. They then lived happily ever after and were buried together.
There's plenty of epic stories that are smaller in frame but shows an intimate frame into the lives of people that we can definitely visualize better as actual people than a king, slave owner, conquered, god.
\> they respect history and don't glorify these people. Alexander the Great was a violent alcoholic mama's boy who had major daddy issues.
There is no evidence that he was violent. He drunk in excess, but so virtually all of his entourage. He was not unique in this. Now, considering he grew up with rather demanding tutors makes him not a "mama's" boy.
But he had many positive in his character and the world would have been better if he had lived into old age. He lacked the near-racist attitudes of most around him, trying to create a merger of West and East. He forced his generals to marry Persian wives and he employed lots of Persians in his administration. And just before this death, he was trying to put together an army made of Persian youths.
As for his campaign against the Persian empire, I need to point out here that this was one that his father began and Macedonian troops were already in Anatolia when he ascended to the throne. And immediately, he faced rebellion in the South and the North and assassination attempts.
\>I don't see why we cannot celebrate happy Ancient Greek stories like Philolaus and Diocles of Corinth instead.
The main reason here is that Alexander was not a homosexual. He had three wives and a number of mistresses. If he got involved in the typical "eros" that was typical in the soldiery of the classical age, it should be pointed out that this was not homosexuality in modern terms.
Homosexuals in ancient Greece were derided and shunned. If you want to find out, just read your basic Aristophanes. Alexander would not have engaged in such behavior because it would have destroyed his influence with the rank and file in the army. And we know that he was adored by the troops.
As for his death, he died likely of a medication error or he was poisoned. Many senior Macedonian aristocrats hated him with a passion, Cassander especially.
Bisexual is an anachronistic term, given that people didn't have the same concept of sexuality as we have today. If we're concerned at all about historical accuracy that is.
These terms have no bearings in ancient worlds I am aware of that, but the audience is us in the 21st century. Now if the director directs like I hope he will he will not politicize anything and just display raw human affection for one another and therein is the key to success in his other show.
While that is true, Ancient Greece did not hold the same prejudices the West has. Philip II was bi (murdered by his gay lover when he refused to commit to him), Socrates was bi, Philolaus and Diocles were a happy gay couple. That didn't mean anything in Ancient Greece, and largely in modern Greece too
Yes yes all that is fine and good but the point is after the sweeping global success of Heated Rivalry, god only knows how this will be received if done right. And hopefully bring some of that magic to this desolate and dry peninsula.
That's true, but I as a gay dude am kinda tired of the tragic queer lens. I don't see what could be added in yet another one.
If they do tell this story, they need to show Alexander as a very complicated man with violent alcoholism (he killed a close friend in a drunken fit), borderline suicidal tendencies, but was also very intelligent and open-minded.
As a gay dude myself I think I can allow myself to be hopeful if this project is in Jacob Tierney’s hands. After watching HR and witnessing the amount of detail given to things and even the way they were delivered to the audience, situations that gave me anxiety, were passed along so smoothly it was actually refreshing so I have high hopes for detail. But it would be wrong to see this as a documentary and I hope it won’t be.
They had a totally different view of sexuality and would reject the current concept of bisexuality, the same way most people would now reject the master and teen apprentice relations.
Because ppl who write and direct this stuff don't know history or care about it, and they just use it more like a thematic for their own story. It's basically fanfiction, but if you had millions of dollars to make it live action.
Bro I see this everywhere, why everybody thinks north macedonian ethnicity is only around Alexander the Great? There's so much more to this people than just being "Bulgarians who think are hellenic" type shi
I mean alexander was greek hellenic, WHY does so many northern macedonians claiming him then? Slavs arrived almost 1500 years ago to balkan, AFTER alexander died! Dont northern macedonians read history in school? Im seriously worried for their sake!
i dont disagree with you, but you cant just base an entire ethnic identity on some ancient peoples and false claims made by them. There's much more to their history than just this. Its not like they just simply spawned in 1991 and started claiming shit.
Present day macedonia was invented by tito, before that their was no "macedonia/northern macedonia", they was bulgarians who emigrated from bulgaria and was gaslighted by tito to believe they was "unique" and "ancient"
first of all, all modern states were technically made recently. There was no such thing as a single Greek state in the ancient times either, neither a single French state, etc. This concept is pretty recent,so your excuse of saying there wasnt such country before their independence is false. Also, as far as I am aware they were a distinct republic inside yugoslavia anyways. Also no, the statement that they are Bulgarians is wrong. Yeah they might have a lot in common in terms of ethnic background, but genetically they are still pretty different. Also their culture is different enough to be considered a different nationality. But at the end of the day, this doesnt even matter at all. If they dont want to identify with Bulgaria and bulgarians then they aren't bulgarians.
Would you say they are Greeks then? What would you consider them as?
Also, if speaking about genetics, is there a single unifying gene for all Greeks? Kritikos will share the genes of someone from thesalloniki?
Consider who? The Ancient macedonians or the slavic-macedonians?
Also yeah not all Greeks have the exact same gene, but they generally have many similarities
Watch the Macedonians completely drop any association to Alexander the Great and be like whoops yeah we had no idea what we were doing we’re so much more similar to Bulgarian people
Guilt tripping престана да работи кај мене одамна, а во исказот нема ништо срамно оти само ќе излезе на виделоност сексуалноста на Александар. И исто така сакам свет во кој можеш да бидеш среќен со дечко ти ❤️
Seksualnosta na Aleksandar e na videlina od poodamna, i toa nikako ne go promeni ni mojot ni zivotot na site drugi geevi. Nema ni ova da pomogne.
A komentarot mi se odnesuva na toa sto davas vpecatok deka site u Makedonija sme severni, a ne e taka. Zatoa vrati se u skolo u nauci kako se vikalo kralstvoto na Aleksandar i dali uopste postoel poimot grk u toa vreme. Pa posle deli obrazovani komentari.
Во Македонија дефинитивно не е на виделина, ниту еднаш не беше спомнато никаде. И допрв сега Македонците ќе ги разработуваат овие прашања оти го ставивме Александар у центар на нашиот главен град.
Za Aleksandar vekje ima nekolku filma i serii, i vo skoro site e navedena negovata seksualnost. Toj sto gi gledal vekje go znae toa. Toj sto ne gi gledal, nema da se zamara ni so uste edna takva serija/film.
Kade sakas ti da bide toa spomnato u Makedonija? Ocekuvas vo ucilistata da se zboruva za seksulanosta na istoriski licnosti?
A od filmovi i serii ako ucis istorija, ondak so srekja. Taka stignavme do tamu kaj sto sme. So obrazovanie od Hollywood i TikTok.
U sekoj slucaj, ova nikako ne pomaga vo podobruvanje na tvojata situacija. Kulturoloskiot aspekt na taa svesnost vo Makedonija e dostignat. Ako sakas podobri zakoni i prava, ke pocekas dodeka na prosecniot gragjanin mu se podobrat zivotnite uslovi kako finansii, zdravstvo, obrazovanie, infrastruktura, sudstvo itn.
Samo koga lugjeto ke se pobogati i zadovolni od svojot zivot, ke se razvie empatija kon tvojot. No namesto da se raboti na tie problemi, ti i grupa lugje kako tebe mislat deka ako menjame ime, im gi dudlame na grcite, i vovedeme gej brakovi, se ke bide kako med i mleko.
I jas go sakam toj zakon. Sakam ednakvi prava. Ama za u kanta mi se ako se drugo e mizerija. Nema da ti pomogne toa ni da najdes decko, ni pa da go uzivas zivotot so nego. Nema da ti se smeni apsolutno nisto. Zatoa osvesti se i podredi gi sonistata po prioritet spored realnosta, a ne spored mechtaenja od perfektni romanticni komedii.
Се сеќавам на час по историја кога изучувавме за античка Македонија и Александар, професорката го користеше филмот од 2004та како визуелен претставител за битки и работи што беа опиштани во учебникот. Но исто така забележав дека го прекинуваше и прескокнуваше по timestamp како и одговараше целосно прескокнувајќи ги хомосексуалните сцени што се факт на реалност. За ова прескокнување се освестив многу години подоцна и ми предизвика голем гнев кога споив два и два како за многу други работи. Ти си задоволен вечито да се репресираш, јас не сум. Мултитаскинг е нешто за кое човекот е способен, за кое инститициите се способни и јас тоа го почнувам веднаш.
Kako se represiram jas? Toa sto ne se krijam od nikoj u mojot zivot i se spravuvam so sekoj sto ima problem so mene e represija za tebe? Sto pravis ti? Pred kogo si open?
Za profesorkata, ako odela po ucebnikot i barala vizuelni ekvivalenti na toa sto e prikazano vo ucebnikot, ondak ne napravila nisto pogresno. Odela spored programa. Isto kako sto ucat vo Grcija, kade sto nikade vo obrazovniot sistem ne e navedeno deka toj e gay/bi.
Zal mi e za tebe sto ocekuvas deka nesto ke ti se promeni so toa. Isto ko sto mi e zal za tie sto glasaa na referendumot deka magicno ke bidat u EU ako se preimenuvaat u kurvi. Ustvari ne mi e zal za niv, neka smrdat u sopstvenata mizerija.
Sto ne se trudam coece? Ne mi se veruva deka posle se sto iznapisav, sum se obrakjal na tele sto ne umee da cita.
Nekoi lugje zasluzuvaat da si chmaat u svojata pateticna ignorantnost...
He was!!!! Everyone knows that! The modern Macedonians are SLAVS. Alexander the Great was HELLENIC. He lived on the territory that is now north Macedonia but who CARES 😂😂
He didn’t live in what is now north Macedonia though… Pella, Thessalonike etc are all in northern Greece… the province of Makedonia, modern north Macedonia used to be Paeonia back then
This whole time I thought he was BORN in modern day Macedonia or at least founded his empire there.
I think he did found his empire there because it was called the Macedonian empire, but then again I don’t know after today.
The whole Macedonian thing gets in the way of their Slavic identity. Imo, it makes for much more of an underdog story to come from humble Slavic peasantry than ancient Macedonian empire, which honestly takes a back seat to other empires like the Roman, Byzantine, Chinese and Mongolian ones.
That's what I thought when I was a kid as well. "Macedonia? Oh that's where Alexander the Great was born!" Just to find out later in life that he was born in the greek region of Macedonia and they (North Macedonia) have nothing to do with the ancient Macedonians whatsoever, they just decided to call themselves that way only a century ago. Honestly, I understand why the Greeks are pissed 😂.
Geographically yes, historically though the ancient kingdom of Macedonia was contained mostly in Greece and it was hellenic as they call it. Something that I find out North Macedonia has no connection to but at one point they tried to portray the narrative that they are descendants of Alexander the Great and they did a lot of questionable things. That's why me and I'm sure many others got confused years ago thinking they are indeed the descendants of the ancient Macedonians. It was smart for the greeks to come to an agreement with the name "North Macedonia" since geographically it was more correct.
And if they continue stealing the identity of the greeks they will renamed them again to : "West OF Bulgaria" or "East OF Albania" instead of North OF Macedonia
Actually, the "historical" area of the Greek kingdom of Makedonia is mostly in Greece.Actually much of it is outside of what we Greeks consider "Makedonia" today.
In what is today North Macedonia lived mostly people like Paionians,Illyrians Thracians and Dardanians, who after Philip and Alexander were vassals to the Macedonian Kingdom.
No, the idea and the truth is that he wasn't from North Macedonia (a country from the 29th century), nor Greece (a country from the 19th century). He was from an ancient kingdom called Macedonia which we have some roots in and buld our identity on it. What idea is popular in your country? Do you learn an alternative history?
Why everyone portrait Alexander the Great blond with blue eyes, when in fact, greeks are dark skin, black eyes?
Alexander the Great looks sooo Russian, Polish, Czech, Slavic.
https://preview.redd.it/m8pzzk4sbnpg1.jpeg?width=714&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02080d24ba9c327b87153e4ed3b0b18bdfa147ba
What forbidden love? There was nothing “forbidden” about Alexander and Hephaeston nor was it a big scandal. Northern Greeks did not have any hang-ups with men being together they were even compared to Achilles and Patroclus
Forbidden love? In those times? Between two man?
I don't think that their bond, relationship, whatever you like to call it was scandalous or forbidden in those times. It was probably expected that he would have some male lover(s) since society he was part of, in that time, was very patriarchal if not misogynistic. Women were seen a little more than cattle and you can't have deep, meaningful relationship with cattle, do you?
I have feeling this project/serie will become some kind of modern problems set in ancient times with real historical figures. Somewhat like speculative history or fictional history. It could potentially have a lot of sex scenes which should be there to schock public (who remembers True Blood and _those_ sex scenes?).
I don’t agree with you, but they have an opportunity to remind the world and specifically us here in the balkans about homosexual relations between men in pre-Christian times and how common it was. The word “forbidden” is a result of post-Christian times and hence its usage for a post-Christian audience.
I don't think that Netflix will do that. Without "forbidden" thing what would be conflict? If homosexual relations between men in those times weren't taboo (and they definitely weren't) what would be conflict then? Forbidden implies there were some opposition for them being together, but there were none.
I am afraid that serie will get "Bridgertonized". There will be some historical context but it's will be just a scene for personal drama which can easily slip into endless interpersonal conflicts and sex all around. If you have serie which is heavily oriented around interpersonal conflicts you risk that no one cares about historical accuracy anymore including society be accepting about male homosexual relations.
If that's not the case then that "forbidden" thing is misleading.
It could be great series, Alexander the Great was very interesting character, he has done, for today's standards, very questionable, if not outright horrible things, his private life was also interesting. If someone would care about historical accuracy, exploring societal standards of that time plus his life, serie could be great. But I am sceptical about that. I have hard time to believe that Netflix cares for such historical accuracy given their recent projects.
For the love of god the use of the word “forbidden” was added to the text by some social media news outlets I follow to make it spicy for clicks it isn’t the freaking script of the entire show that isn’t even produced yet. It’s a series not a historical documentary I thought that much was clear. But in any case it is a very welcomed one, hope it inspires other gay guys throughout the balkans to start creating their artistic interpretations.
Yay! Can't wait for 20 mins of graphic sex of Alexander the Great with one of his generals, and than the other in the next episode! /s
Though, that's kinda what I expect the plot to be about, not a joke.😕
I'm honestly don't like it when shows have too many sex scenes even if it's regular sex and not gay stuff.
I can comfortably skip a smut TV show about gay hockey players, but it's a shame a story on Alexander the Great will likely be ruined by horny losers.
I think they’re on point, just about shocking enough to get people to start thinking and feeling while undoing conservative and religious brainwashing.
lol, running straight to politics you, clearly you have som anger and other motive.
Who cares conservative or democrat, i want to be able to watch movies and shows with my family from time to time.
The only motive I have for us, Is for Macedonian society to become more aware about the gay Macedonians living here and hopefully translate that awareness through legislation and same sex marriage.
Like it isn't already.
Here you have a fascinating combination of a military genius and a complete immature madman. Instead most times I hear him discussed is either about contemporary politics or "AAA so gay ✨🌈"
It's so typical of film/showmakers today to take a look at a thing that's fascinating on its own and go "That's boring, I have my own [usually braindead] take."
And audiences enjoy the slop because they're busy scrolling their phones while watching things and need everything pre-digested. Pitching the story of Alexander as being about "forbidden love" is so damn stupid, literally no one cared about dudes being bisexual back then, his own father got murdered by his bodyguard lover because he switched to a younger dude.
I think they pitched it that way because one, they’re a company and two, for the modern audience, for us here at least homosexual relations are seen as forbidden since we don’t live in ancient times where it was common.
Yeah, that "forbidden love" BS is headdesk-inducing. Want to make something actually radical for contemporary culture? Just show other Greeks approving of Alexander-Hephaestion relationship because "Just like Achilles and Patrocles, so heroic".
But that means you have to actually research his life and find another conflict to build drama around.
I'm not against sex scenes, as long as they're done right. Sex and the City for example had multiple sex scenes in every episode, yet nobody ever said the series was porn or graphic. You won't be seeing Big giving Carrie oral for 20 mins straight, you'll see that scene, it will cause their conflict and the plot goes on with sex scenes where when they're needed.
It's also a show with "Sex" in the title, so you kind of know what you're getting into. One of the biggest offenders in this regard was Spartacus. I dropped that show when I saw an episode in which they had a straight sex scene immediately followed by a gay sex scene, neither with importance to the plot.
Thats where you’re wrong, people crave passion and want it even more when they see it. Tierney I believe rejected the idea of limiting it and he was right.
What people crave and whether something is a good story are two different things. The show is gonna be two gay dudes having drama and sex in Ancient Macedonia instead of North America, how novel and brave.
I believe this will be a good story because this isn’t the first time something like this has happened. And reducing it to just sex is very small thinking.
https://youtu.be/94aMBknP-mQ?si=sJ2PlCDcLY_ZVff2
Of all things, you link to the most dogshit film that misrepresents both Alexander and Hephaestion. The show might actually be better than the film, I'll give you that, but it still won't mean it's good.
Well there haven’t been any so thats all there is which is going to change pretty soon I hope. Whether its good or not is a question for time and for whose watching.
Not really. Throughout the ages, armies are famous for being followed be litteral caravans of prostitutes on the march. Turns out a streesed out man who has a soldiers pay (usually not much, but not many other things to buy either ) and may die any day is a pretty good costumer for sex workers. Who would have thought? But yeah, when in lack of such professionals things turn gay for some. Read the seven pillars of wisdom by TE Lawrence for reference.
That has nothing to do with you. To the world outside North Macedonian Alexander is part of the Hellenistic culture. He has nothing to do with the people that occupy the Balkans currently except the Greeks.Even they are so much changed by the Orthodoxy during the years that the ancient Macedonians will hardly recognize them.
What do you mean it has nothing to do with modern Balkans? I’m a homosexual living in the modern Balkans and I’m here to create that social acceptance the greeks had in pre-Christian times.
I can't wait for my country to get shit mad about this and start crying all over the place. Also if this is legit, why would they even do that? It's not like Alexander's homesexual releationships were something important or even unique. Back then it was really common
I think Alexanders homosexual relations is something worth being reminded of to break the stereotype that love between men is a modern invention and everyone sees it as something foreign to them when in fact its very much part of nature.
yeah i totally agree with that, but i think it will just make things worse. Everyone will put the blame on the "wOke aGeNda", grifters will make a shit ton of videos, and you know the drill. Maybe its not the right time to release this
It’s never the right time and I do not agree with that sentiment. It’s 2026 elsewhere in the world and we’re acting like it’s the late 90’s. No more of that It is as good of a time as any.
It is a Greek hero. Whatever the North Macedonian wants to claim. And homosexuality was a traditional thing in Greece at the time. There was a good film called Alexander that also explored his gay love live. So nothing new.
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Many Greeks back when Alexander(2004) came out had no idea of ancient Greek sexuality or about the pederasty in ancient Greece.
The movie came as a shock to many.
In no way shape or form should this be considered embarrassing, this is a testament to love. The only thing thats embarrassing is not being able to see beyond your own happiness.
Like it to you or not he was de facto GAY! He declared Hephaestion as deity when he died and he made orgies WITH MEN! Antinous was a bottom think too! Lover of Handrian! And Achilles was bi sexual by modern standards! Ancient Greece was a gay/bi man's paradise pleasure! If all of you start digging deeper you'll find the truth in your faces!
Still , let's not confuse sexuality 2 millennia ago with how we perceive it in the last century."Freer" is not a correct way to describe it.
If we want representation of our community, we have ample opportunities with stories from today.
Also true. Honestly, the value of encountering ancient world is mostly about how *weird* it is. The basic humanity is there but the entire society could as well be Martian. And we have it documented. Just accepting the weirdness already broadens your horizons.
TL;DR: Read Herodotus, kids.
On the horizons part,Greeks had A LOT of trouble digesting sexuality shown in the Alexander (2004) movie.
What bothers me is the anachronistic way they show for social phenomenons.Many modern series suffer seriously from this.
I mean , I don't expect a movie or a series to show pederastic customs in ancient Greece but come on man , I don't want to see another Heater Rivalry "Macedonian Edition".
> I mean , I don't expect a movie or a series to show pederastic customs in ancient Greece
Imagine a realistic movie about the Spartan agoge.
It would be slapped with X rating, then banned, then the filmmakers would be locked up, then the negatives would be burned, then filmmakers would be burned too.
Exactly.
Sometimes , history cannot be shown on series or movies.
Besides, enough with classical/Hellenistic antiquity already. Time for some Late antiquity - Early middle ages Eastern Roman Empire series/movies.
Wouldn't that be a sight to behold.Byzantines , Slavs , Arabs etc.
There is an upcoming Croatian TV movie about Diocletian.
https://youtu.be/mcCJ1LrTIVU?is=VdR26zbqgvbWHC7Q
I'm not guaranteeing it will be good, but it will be the first.
I’m not confusing the two I just want to build onto it, the evolution of homosexual or bisexual relations throughout those 2 millennia are worth being talked about and turned into a show so people don’t forget and stop giving you excuse after excuse and relativizing your “spontaneous” existence.
I don't think these people will like us, even after those movies.
They still hate your guts despite the fact that science is on our side.They will never stop despising you.
That is a problem for them to figure out over time how to reconnect with the homosexual son they disowned. And if they don’t, not much of a loss there either. What is necessary however is bringing awareness to the lack of a national strategy about this question, we don’t have anything but Greece is definitely ahead of everyone in this regard and I’m here to support it.
>That is a problem for them to figure out over time how to reconnect with the homosexual son they disowned.
Oh man 😓
My bf has similar problems, hope you good.
>What is necessary however is bringing awareness to the lack of a national strategy about this question, we don’t have anything but Greece is definitely ahead of everyone in this regard and I’m here to support it.
With the way American politics have been going on , while Europe gets conservative, maybe we could use anything we can lay our hands on.
Times will change like they always have before for better or worse but we’ll still be here despite all that. And if I don’t open my mouth to speak no one is going to do it for me, also I’m sorry to hear about your boyfriend’s situation 😔.
Off topic question but why do North Macedonians idealise Alexander so much? I’m Australian and I’ve also been baffled by it.
He was culturally and ethnically Greek. Spoke Greek. Viewed himself as Greek. Was born in Pella which is in modern day Greece.
Modern day North Macedonians are a South Slavic people that settled in the Balkans around the 6th–7th centuries (800-1000 years after Alexander died).
It literally makes no sense and I completely understand and agree with the Greek perspective of their history being appropriated by another country for a completely irrational reason. The fact of the matter is North Macedonians claiming direct ancestry from Alexander is not supported by evidence
Idealizing Alexander is a modern thing that happened in the last 20 years, a series of poor decisions made by a corrupt government desperate for power and money laundering that will haunt us forever. However the existence of south slav people who Identify as Macedonians is a fact of reality that existed long before this government and everyone is just going to have to come to terms with and move on. We have an international agreement that confirms both and put it to rest already.
Thanks for your response. I agree that your people should be able to call themselves Macedonian and be proud of your Macedonian heritage. I just think there is a nuance that this does not mean Ancient Greek history should be appropriated.
Do you agree that Alexander and Ancient Macedonia are aspects of Greek history and not modern Macedonian history?
I think it’s stupid that they call themselves that. Fully agree with the Greek stance that it doesn’t make historical sense and that there is already a part of Greece called Macedonia that has a genuine cultural, linguistic, ethnic and historical claim.
However, that’s what they call themselves and it’s what has been agreed. Northern Macedonia
Yes they are aspects of Greek history that is undeniable however we’re also aspects of that history too because there isn’t a glass wall separating the assimilation of slavic peoples to that history, the paternal side of my family is originally from north western Greece before they moved up here.
Sure, there was no glass wall and there was migration, intermarriage and shifting identities. But that’s not the same thing as historical or cultural continuity with ancient Macedonians. Firstly, the timeline gap is huge. Slavic groups arrived in the Balkans 900-1000 years after Alexander. Second, the cultural continuity is limited as Ancient Macedonians spoke Greek, participated in Greek cultural and religious life and considered themselves as part of the Greek world. In contrast, modern Macedonian identity developed in the 19th–20th centuries, mostly among Slavic-speaking peoples. Lastly, migration doesn’t prove ancient continuity as families moving between regions of the Balkans (like northern Greece and modern Macedonia) happened frequently in the Ottoman period. But that movement doesn’t link modern Slavic populations to ancient Macedonians.
Look at modern Turkey. Modern people in Turkey live in the same lands where ancient Greek cities like those associated with Homer existed but Turks generally don’t claim that they are the descendants of the ancient Greeks of Anatolia, even if there was massive population mixing during the Byzantine and Ottoman periods
Did you get it out of your system? Ok let’s get back on track with homosexuality and make this place more open and tolerable for those of us who are currently living in it.
Yeah, I think so. I literally have nothing against your country, I just like history.
I don’t care if they make Alexander bisexual. Given Ancient Greek norms, bisexual behavior would not have been surprising. It was very common
It might have been common but today it isn’t, the only common thing these days is the threat to safety whenever they piece together you’re gay and suddenly your environment and social interactions become run by passive-aggression, you loose jobs, friends, family, and it is exhausting.
I speak English because Australia as a modern state is the product of British colonialism.
I don’t understand your point. I’m not the one pretending that my nation’s history is something that it isn’t
And Northern Macedonia is the product of Slavic people migrating to what was once either a part of historical Macedonia or very close to it. There was no parent on being called Macedonia, so they made this part of their identity. Just like your ancestors took Norman French terms for beef or land from indigenous people where you currently reside. History is more complex than this childish ethnopluralist LARP you're doing here.
Modern Macedonia covers a tiny part of Ancient Macedonia, about 15-20%. Pella (Alexander’s birthplace and the capital), Vergina (Aigai), Thessaloniki, Amphipolis, Edessa, Beroea, Pydna and Dion are all in modern day Greece. Alexander was literally born in the borders of modern day Greece.
The Ancient Macedonians spoke Greek, participated in Greek culture and religious life, and most importantly, considered themselves Greek.
Northern Macedonia, as you noted, is the product of Slavic migration in 800-1000 years after Alexander died. The national identity is a creation of the 20th century.
What I’m getting at is that Northern Macedonians claiming Alexander and Ancient Macedonia as their history is just false
Modern Macedonia covers a tiny part of Ancient Macedonia, about 15-20%. Pella (Alexander’s birthplace and the capital), Vergina (Aigai), Thessaloniki, Amphipolis, Edessa, Beroea, Pydna and Dion are all in modern day Greece. Alexander was literally born in the borders of modern day Greece.
The Ancient Macedonians spoke Greek, participated in Greek culture and religious life, and most importantly, considered themselves Greek.
Northern Macedonia, as you noted, is the product of Slavic migration in 800-1000 years after Alexander died. The national identity is a creation of the 20th century.
What I’m getting at is that Northern Macedonians claiming Alexander and Ancient Macedonia as their history is just false
I think that in that era, the Greeks where on the opinion that real love are between men. And especially between older and experienced one and a younger one who get teached and shown the way of the world.
Women were only for procreating.
The same dynamic was between Achiles and Patrocles.
[That reminds me of a joke I know.](https://vic.bg/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B5/%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%8F%D1%82-%D0%B1%D1%8A%D0%BB%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD-%D0%B8-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%86-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B0-%D0%B1%D1%8A%D0%BB%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%8A%D1%82-%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B2%D0%B0)
If they go down that route I think it might actually solve some problems, since the Macedonians won't want to claim him if he is gay.
And then would be the most Greek thing that could ever happen
Yes it will raise a lot of dust for conservative Macedonians thats for sure, dust that they won’t be able to comprehend without question, I agree with that. But the only problems I want solved are a bit of hope for gays in each balkan country at the end of the day.
I mean Alexander's relation with Hephaestion is well known. But why are they not black though?
https://preview.redd.it/d24jmr2ylapg1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e3b8c17c7fcc152f8eea778d3f95471e8bd055b
That’s the third time after Cleopatra also there was that black guy playing Achilles in Troy series on Netflix. Now Lupita Nyongo will play, I’m not sure if it goddess Athena or Helen of Troy. Hollywood whitewashing / blackwashig doesn’t allow space for Mediterranean people. It used to be just blond Anglo people, now they mixed it up and added some Africans. I would honestly love to watch a well produced authentic African historical movie.
I want to say that thankfully Tierney is Canadian and we’ll get some reasonable representation that is honest but for that I will have to wait for it to be produced and watch it first.
Wow... So racist... You must hate black people if you don't like when they use protagonist roles in media based on a culture or history that has nothing to do with non white people, but is instead just used by producers in the west as a form of advertisment because they know it will spark controversy, and they view any form of attention as positive for sales!!!
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