[Rifle] SPRINGFIELD SAINT 16" 5.56 Fin grip 1-10rd Springfield, Saint, Semi Auto, 5.56 Strike Industries grip, Magpul fixed stock, Flip up sights $754.95 (see comments for details & more deals)
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Leotheo@reddit
$143 shipping to CA is a deal-killer: https://imgur.com/a/a0yWL7k
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the_rev_28@reddit
Trying to figure out if this is IL compliant
1610925286@reddit
The problem with Illinois is that they put the saint Victor line of guns in the law by name + any "variants".
I know of one shop that will still transfer ARs and they won't touch anything that's named in the PICA flowchart PDF the state police released (who have been adding models that aren't even mentioned in the law as well, so they are breaking the law, but who will stop them ..).
As for other ARs, they generally only transfer them in fixed mag / kali key variety (there's a carve out for fixed / manual guns in the law).
So you can try calling FFLs till you find one that isn't going above and beyond the ban (many don't even let you have legal items... Typical IL) and ask them to order you something and either install a fixed mag kit, or some California style quick quick pin release that requires the action to be opened. Or a Kali key if you hate yourself.
bronzecat11@reddit
ISP can only add models in Oct and it has to be published. Have you heard of them adding something?
1610925286@reddit
They added geissele super duty "series" to the flow chart PDF recently and they don't seem to notify or track these changes anywhere.
bronzecat11@reddit
Nope, I'm looking at both versions of the AWB Guide from 2023 and Geissele was already there. I'll see if I can find the very first version.
1610925286@reddit
I was told about this by an FFL, maybe they were wrong.You said they were able to add models in Oct? Which part of the law was that based on?
bronzecat11@reddit
If you have the Public Act 102 document it's on page 96.
(3) the make, model, caliber, and serial number of the .50 caliber rifle or assault weapon or assault weapons listed in paragraphs (J), (K), and (L) of subdivision (1) of subsection (a) of this Section possessed by the affiant prior to the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 102nd General Assembly and any assault weapons identified and published by the Illinois State Police pursuant to this subdivision (3). No later than October 1, 2023, and every October 1 thereafter, the Illinois State Police shall, via rulemaking, identify, publish, and make available on its website, the list of assault weapons subject to an endorsement affidavit under this subsection (d). The list shall identify, but is not limited to, the copies, duplicates, variants, and altered facsimiles of the assault weapons identified in paragraphs (J), (K), and (L) of subdivision (1) of subsection (a) of this Section and shall be consistent with the definition of "assault weapon" identified in this Section. The Illinois State
1610925286@reddit
I never realised this, because the phrasing made it seem as if that refers to already clearly affected guns. But due to how the law is structured this basically gives them the ability to decide when an a gun is an AR, even if it's literally not a DI gun (e.g. LWRC piston rifle they added).
Do you know if they really haven't added more guns since 2023? Because the FFL was of the opinion that the identification guide does no track changes. This would obviously be pretty precarious for people buying compliant guns (even something like a hellion, deserttech etc.) that could suddenly end up on the list.
bronzecat11@reddit
If they use the rule making feature to update the list, they have to update the AWB Guide and Appendix A that is part of the Administrative Code and also the IL Register. Two years have gone by with no updates. Apparently the Geissele wasn't written in the original law but it was put on the first version of the AWB Guide that came out in Oct of 23.
That entire section that says Other "AR Type" Rifles as defined by the Protecting Illinois Communities Act is full of weirdness. Why did they put the Ruger MPR there but put the SR 556 (piston driven) up with the other ARs?
1610925286@reddit
Maybe my FFL was wrong about that then. It just became an issue when I was debating getting a super duty and they had one gathering dust (because no one can buy it, even if it doesn't have the features anymore. )
bronzecat11@reddit
Put a Kali Key in it and buy it.
1610925286@reddit
They are of the opinion that the manual action or fixed mag conversion is not sufficient to take it out of the purview of "variant".
I think, based on how the law is phrased, it should still be fine, but they don't want to do that anymore it seems. Bought a bunch of lowers instead.
bronzecat11@reddit
They are not reading the law correctly. Anytime something is excluded, then nothing else about the law applies to it. If it did, it would say that it did.
2) "Assault weapon" does not include:
(C) A firearm that is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or slide action, unless the firearm is a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
If some of these FFL would just spend the money for an hour consult with a lawyer to help explain the law to them they would make that back up in no time through increased sales.
1610925286@reddit
To be fair, I don't know why they changed their minds on this, because they also had that view previously, but claimed the ISP has been updating something which put them in a more difficult spot and they are very active in litigation and it's not a small store either.
I honestly am glad I can still buy fixed mag "AR" lowers at all. My local FFL was of the opinion that generic 1913 rail pistol braces are illegal for him to sell, unless they come on a bolt action gun. So now I have to drive 2 hours just to get to this FFL that will at least let me buy compliant non-variants (which is honestly fine, assembled guns are too expensive as is).
What I also don't understand why receivers and others are affected by the law whatsoever. Other states with similar laws also obviously let you buy lowers, as they could be built into anything, there are even black powder guns that attach to the mil spec lower.
bronzecat11@reddit
As far as lowers,they aren't against the law to sell. They are regulated and not out right banned. Meaning that can't be sold for the purpose of making an assault weapon or having constructive possession of items to create an assault weapon. Lower receivers are not AR-15s either.That's just another one of those items that FFLs are irrationally afraid of.
1610925286@reddit
I also don't see a reason why they would be outright illegal, but the ISP has been kind of weasel wordy in their FAQ, stating "Yes, receivers designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon are regulated. Please refer to section 720 ILCS 5/24-1.9(a)(1)&(3).".
I was only ever sold functionally compliant lowers, with fixed mags or alternatively a system that requires disassembly to drop the mag free.
If you know any FFLs in IL that are willing to follow the law as written, feel free to DM me which. I'd be glad to know of more options.
rrrice3@reddit
I think the muzzle device does it in but double check. I feel for you. Moved up to WI... Never looked back.
1610925286@reddit
Saint Victors are banned by name, the muzzle device is definitely fine, you can have brakes.
But most shops will not let you have featureless "ARs" of any type. The only thing that works is having the shop order a gun and install a quick pin fixed mag kit or anything else that requires opening the action to reload.
Baltorussian@reddit
Many forced returns the last few times. Check ilguns
Rfelipe647@reddit
Should be
According_Mood9113@reddit
Same Boat
bronzecat11@reddit
Quite a few of these were sold in the past 6 months. ISP never stepped in to stop the sales or confiscated any that were already sold. You have to find the right FFL that's not afraid to transfer one.
PercocetPapiiii@reddit
wtf is going on with what’s behind the pistol grip? I’m from a free state, I’ve never see something like that
Facehugger_35@reddit
It's a fin.
See, in Cali and some other places, pistol grips are banned as "assault weapon features" by stupid lawmakers who don't understand anything about guns. Some enterprising fellow went to court and got Cali to define a pistol grip as something you can wrap your hand around that also noticeably protrudes beneath the action.
Enter the fin, which you can no longer get your hand around and thus is not a pistol grip.
Good fins have little shelves to rest your thumb on and aren't terrible to operate, but they still aren't as comfortable as a pistol grip.
There's other featureless grips like the Sparrow grip or the juggernaut grip too.
Technically fins only work in Cali, but other ban states tend to follow Cali's lead in this, so my LGS here in MA sells finned rifles too.
Somedays I wonder if a fin that has a thumbhole in it that is nonetheless not connected to the stock (thus becoming a thumbhole stock) would also work. But it would likely involve legal action to prove it.
PercocetPapiiii@reddit
Dang that’s absolutely insane, the more I hear about California the more I’m convinced it’s a terrible place to live
crazywayne311@reddit
I assume you could just swap it out but what the hell even is it haha
Wunktacular@reddit
Great purchase for the folks in Virginia.
DarkIsTheSuede@reddit
Anything goes until 7/1/26 and will be grandfathered
Sh00tYourEyeOut@reddit
And after that nothing - not even CA models
Admirable_Water_4792@reddit
BIN ?
Rfelipe647@reddit
BIN.
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