i think one of the main reasons is because like i said i support lgbt+ but also believe i can’t force anyone to agree and although i disagree with their opinion, i support their right to had it. and i don’t really like any of the “liberal” options in our government either.
Your positions minus the libertarian tax/healthcare ones are in line with most progressive lefties.
Liberals (at least those in power) are pro-Israel.
“Abolish all police” is not a position held by serious individuals. Reform of the police (like better training and not allowing them to investigate themselves when they commit crimes) is more in line with actual lefty thought.
You go far enough left, you get your guns back. But a vast majority of Americans agree there should be some form of gun control.
Lefties hate our healthcare system. Cutting taxes wouldn’t fix anything about the system though. We need to cut out the middlemen insurance companies. A universal healthcare option would help with that - with hundreds of millions on the same plan, the feds would be able to pressure private insurance brokers to decrease their costs to compete. We pay enough in taxes right now to afford trying this at no additional cost to Americans.
The internet trope of putting down the “both sides” argument shames us into either camp. But it really doesn’t matter if you are a progressive leftist, libertarian, conservative, or liberal. Politicians who give you their ear are either too weak, too small, or too corrupt. I mean, look at the fight against data centers in my neck of the woods in Pennsylvania. The locals who have to live near them are overwhelmingly against them, but that really amounts to nothing. No one within any level of power, whether local, state, or federal respects you.
I consider libertarians a collection of individuals, than a unified political party. Each of us have different ideas that we feel strongly about, which leads to us fighting a lot. Which is good, teaches how to defend a position, but also teaches you to learn more about other positions. All of your points, i would love to argue for or against. And in a physical setting, with some beers, its fun!
When you say "equal rights" for lgbt... what do you mean? What rights are given to some, that are withheld from others? Laws are only written in terms of male and female, and (to my knowledge) no laws make any consideration or preferential treatment out of someone's identity expression.
There’s honestly a gray area between moderate Republican and moderate Democrat even the libertarian movement is a little too absolutist these days. People who believe in 99% of the libertarian ideals, but understand that we need a national defense we probably need somebody enforcing food standards don’t have a place to land. A third, robust, aggressive, loud party would really do this country some good.
The idea is to be realistic and not be absolutist about rejecting any alliances that lower the property rights aggressions in favor for 100% pure ancap principle that doesn’t fly with most people.
Yeah, I've started feeling that way myself. Mostly because I'm no longer convinced that any small government is capable of staying small. It always seems to grow and corrupt itself.
It may be, we don't really know because we have never had a libertarian society.
Looking at it from a historical perspective, I doubt it. If anything, history shows that societies that begin closer to a libertarian state trend toward authoritarianism as time goes on. This is due to how much easier it is to pass new laws than it is to get rid of old laws. Humans have a tendency for group think, especially as the groups get bigger. So, while the ideology of libertarianism trends more towards anarcho-capitalism, the reality on the ground trends toward authoritarianism.
This is also one of the main reasons that Socialism so quickly becomes authoritarian.
It may be, we don't really know because we have never had a libertarian society.
I said ancap was the logical conclusion to libertarianism, not that if we had a libertarian society we'd end up with anarchy.
history shows that societies that begin closer to a libertarian state trend toward authoritarianism as time goes on
Of course. Because any State's first job is to perpetuate itself and justify its own existence. Expansion of this power is a natural byproduct of its self-preservation.
AnCap argues that if you take the core libertarian (NAP) and apply it consistently, without making exceptions for the State, you end up at anarchism. Here is the logic:
Self-Ownership: You own yourself, your labor, and your property.
The NAP: Initiating force against an otherwise-peaceful person or their property is immoral.
The Taxation Problem: Taxation is the non-consensual taking of property. If a neighbor does it, we call it theft. If the State does it, it’s still theft... no matter the mental gymnastics done to try to justify it. A "limited" government that taxes is still violating the NAP.
Monopoly Problem: A State is a territorial monopoly on force. By forbidding you from hiring a different security provider or court system, the state is initiating force against peaceful competition.
The Conclusion: If the NAP is a universal moral law, the state is an inherently criminal organization. Therefore, a consistent libertarian must accept that voluntary agreements are the only moral and just way to form a society.
Yes, food safety (reasonable regs and not rev generation reg) and I understand basic home building inspection but I do not need one to replace an outlet. And should not take years for permits. Just a quick look over that your crap wire job is not going to burn down the neighborhood. Work in ag in California the paper work is insane. It’s freaking grapes.
Well, at least you just made me feel better because I know I'm not the only one anyway. I could have written your post. I'm usually too right for the left, and too left for the right and both sides routinely disappoint me in terms of their willingness to infringe on individual rights and our freedom. I hang out here because I have nowhere else I even remotely fit in.
Libertarianism is the right thing for you. One thing I'd like to add is that healthcare is not only ruined by taxation, it's also protectionism, bureaucracy, and corporatism. Look at some some private healthcare models around the world and you'll see that they get essentially the same quality for a quarter of what you pay.
Pretty much, letter for letter, describing Libertarianism. A view that most people I’ve met don’t even realize they align with, and scoff at the remote idea of being lumped in with us.
Then proceed to describe our ideology as their own, then turn around and bootlick whatever their leading corrupt party member is at the time.
This is your home lol what’s funny is lots of modern conservatives belong here too but don’t even consider it an option. I firmly believe if enough people were honest with themselves and open minded to leaving the big two parties that libertarians would be dominating the polls.
I’m not left enough for leftists, I’m too left for conservatives, and MAGA (at least the ones where I live) seem to believe I’m the enemy from within in the United States.
Pretty much any group that's not a complete cult is going to have (often aggressive) disagreements on things.
I believe abortion should remain between the woman, her partner, and her doctor, not the government.
I believe LGBT+ people deserve equal treatment/rights
Could be classical liberal, socialist, or some form of secular pro-establishment (i.e. Democratic in the US, more secular parties in other western countries). For "deserve equal treatment/rights", how you think that should work can impact this.
I believe that the thing that’s supposed to make America great is our freedom, even if I don’t agree with the opinion.
Sounds like classical liberal.
I support our 2A, but definitely understand the concerns of people using their guns improperly or to commit violence and would love to have a solution to help fix that.
Kindof vague, so could be basically anything in the US except for the subset of Democrats who want total gun bans.
I think our healthcare system is absolutely crap and maybe if we didn’t lose so much of our check to taxes, we could maybe actually afford it.
Sounds like classical liberal.
I don’t like any of the 3 lettered government agency’s, especially what ICE is doing right now.
Could be classical liberal or socialist (depending on your other views on government).
I think that Cops definitely need better training as well.
Vague enough to be basically anything that isn't anarchism.
I want Israel out of The US’s politics.
I’m against this war in Iran and don’t believe the government is actually doing it because they care about the citizens in Iran.
I don’t support what Iran is doing to their citizens either.
Could be classical liberal, socialist (although a subset of them will insist that it's western propaganda), the small subset of Democrats who don't like Israel, or the subset of MAGA who doesn't want anything to do with Israel.
I am mostly disenfranchised with the Libertarian party. I mean they put Chase Oliver on the presidential ballot FFS! I still align with most of the ideals but after seeing how useless the political party is, I have become more of an anarchist. My need for government is pretty much non existent at this point, and I have built a great group of friends and neighbors that allow us to be self-sufficient. This is a stark change from who I once was. I was a social media warrior and a member of every political debate group that wouldn't kick me out. I spent hours arguing with strangers just to prove that logic and facts are more important than feelings. Even though I won, did I really? Honestly, no one will remember us anyway. At best if you get grandkids they will typically be the last ones to remember you. My advice is stop worrying about politics, vote your conscience, and live your life! Be a positive impact on your local community and ultimately nothing else matters. Best of luck to you finding your political home!
I'm finding national identity tends to be co-opted for the right these days. Though I do think sometimes the liberals view of heightened democracy is part of what created our American exceptionalism once, if that ever was once a thing.
You're not wrong. But I think that the left tries to seize national identity, twist it, and use that twisted version to bolster their political goals. So both sides are guilty of it, just in different ways.
Why do you feel the need to ‘fit in’. Why do you feel that because you don’t have a label that fully applies, that you are somehow homeless? Who cares. Advocate for what you believe in.
"I believe abortion should remain between the woman, her partner, and her doctor" - Her partner has never had any say on the matter at all - none at all, not ever.
Her partner can insist; "I believe abortion is murder, I want you to have this child." and the woman does whatever she wants, without regard for him, his morals, and his beliefs.
Her partner can insist; "I can't afford to raise a child, it will ruin my life!" and once again, the woman does whatever she wants - even if it ruins his life. The court will ensure he will be financially responsible for the child until the child becomes an adult.
When it comes to abortion rights, women have always had ALL of the rights, and men have none.
yeah i agree and that’s exactly what i mean, that convo should happen between them as i believe being on the same page about abortion and birth in general is important. at the end of the day tho women are the ones giving birth and being pregnant so that is her decision. sorry im really bad at wording my thoughts sometimes.
I feel libertarian but I have liberal tell me I’m liberal and conservatives tell me I’m conservative
Like economically I’m pretty conservative I hate hate haaaate communism and socialism, I want lower taxes minimal gov involvement with my life
I’m also pro-weed, pro-choice I have a pretty live and let live mentality.
I dislike the liberals more then the conservatives cuz conservatives just disagree with u and that’s it when I say legalize weed and shit the Karen’s might bitch but they are far and few between
Liberals portray me as some demon when I say no I don’t wanna pay half my hard earned income towards taxes let me spend it how I want I worked for it. But to the socialist liberals apparently thats evil of me to want to have control over the money I earned. Like if the money is going to only benefit me anyways then what’s the difference to u?
I have very similar opinions on all those issues and have come to accept there just isn't really party for us. In recognizing that humans as social creatures need to have a tribe, I've chosen to try to just think of myself and everyone around me as the "in-group," normal Americans.
Like all things, it can be taken to some extremes that are wacky, but I believe Libertarianism is the closest thing to the classical liberalism that formed the basis of this country, compared to whatever it is the current big parties are doing. Liberalism requires discussion and compromise, accountability and representation. Those values are severely lacking in this climate.
The divisions among us regular people are being purposefully heightened to stop people from seeing the deeper problems with where the country has gone.
I think you'll fit right in with libertarians. If you're interested, it might be worth exploring the ideas to see if they resonate with you. Besides that, I'm not from the US, but the feeling I get is that many Americans are fed up with the two party system, so libertarian or not, you're definitely not alone
Labels are meaningless and dangerous. The Left and Right spectrum is a lie designed to keep the commonfolk fighting while the elite drain us dry. Political identity is so much more nuanced than that.
The label behind the values aren't real.
Everyone has values that can be assigned to a "side" but humans naturally gravitate towards groups. It feels good to be on a "team" and believe in their direction over the other. But it's not real.
The elites don't care.
Down with the two party system. It's two sides of the same shitty coin.
If society wakes up, then maybe we'll have a chance on genuine politicians gaining the power they need to fight back against corruption.
While disliking how prime ministers are chosen, I do like the parliamentary system. It seems like it represents more voices, more voices that get a chance to form their own groups as parties, instead of us having to , choose between a shitty Coke and Pepsi.
I mean expanding on Israels influence, many foreign governments lobby in the US, with top spenders being Saudia Arabia, China, Japan and the UAE. The two parties want people to constantly get caught up in echo chambers and left and right debates. It's better to support things based on conviction and reasoning. No foreign government should have a large influence on our policy. Especially when that means going to war when many citizens are against it.
Exactly, the Gulf states, Israel, and our biggest trading partners. The first two buy tons of our weapons, the second one provides us intelligence in the region, the first sell us their oil, and the trading partners sell the stuff that we like to buy.
A libertarian will be called a democrat by republicans. A republican by democrats and a fake libertarian by other libertarians. If that sounds like you welcome to the big but mostly empty tent that is the Libertarian movement.
In the US at least, it seems the political parties expect 100%, in-lock-step agreement with the party and the most publicly visible people of that party. I've never been able to do that. I question everything and everybody especially if they have power. I was called a "traitor to the nation" by a republican and a "traitor to the Constitution" by democrat in the space of one week back in 2004. I have had no "political home" since. Fuck'em all.
Your views fit a lot of the main libertarian viewpoints.
You’re not homeless, but unfortunately your home has been compromised and many people who would have called themselves libertarian, and many who still do, are actually authoritarian apologists in disguise. Time for us to get to work and start taking out the trash.
everything you wrote feels like it was taken outta my mind. from the 2A take to the anti-war to stopping all exchange w israel. especially because if we stopped supplying them with weapons etc., Palestine would be safer, and have a real chance at becoming their own nation.
i wish the majority of america thought this way, we could actually become a decent country
Yea mate, I think you’re just reasonable and have the capability to think for yourself but I understand the desire to find politicians who’ll align with that.
I agree with most of what you're saying, but we can't move forward in these circumstances with uncertainty. We can't sit around hugging our knees in sorrow and remain hopeless. These problems can only be solved by us.
Not sure why you got downvoted. It's a legitimate question. Democrats and Republicans have very peculiar definitions of freedom. E.g. freedom of speech, as long as it doesn't offend certain groups or contradict a desired historical narrative.
It's called being apolitical. There's nothing wrong with it, the fact is that both sides are bad and they are all in it together. You ever heard of George Carlin? "It's a big club and you ain't in it"
Look man, when ya go to mickey dees and you see all the options, in the political realm ya don't have that many options . When your stuff don't align with Big Mac and McChicken, and it's the only two options, most of us feel alienated. I promise though that others out there that expect more of our gov do exist. Not only do they exist but they exist in many forms. Most end up dem or two..there in is the problem. We don't need a 3rd party, we need many more options and we need people to own up to their actual beliefs and not be mindless fools. I happen to be a libertarian and what that means in America and I still recognize the fact we need not only free thinkers, but people to think for themselves. Whether or not you are a libertarian doesn't change the fact that we need more people like you with the ability to think, learn and educate themselves on what they want out of where they live. Good luck my friend and keep on being a free thinker.
You're just a moderate. All pretty common sense things, that I think the majority of America would agree on. Unfortunately both the left and right have gone further to the extreme. I really believe a moderate candidate could come out of nowhere, run as a third party and focus on anti corruption, easily agreeable 80/20 type issues and win the presidency. If he doesn't get suicided first.
IMO the MAGA movement successfully used disdain for liberals and democrats to co-opt large swaths of the libertarian movement. Both groups have a disdain for federal centralized power , socialism and bureaucracy.
Trump did this more successfully than previous Conservatives because of his promises to avoid war. This despite traditional institutional libertarians like the CATO institute/ Reason magazine really pushing back against Trump.
Well the mask is now off and we still exist in a two party system so libertarians and old school liberals who used to exist on a closer plane now are both homeless when it comes to the vote and the majority of Americans are unhappy with their options.
You’ve basically just describe what it’s like to be a normal, level headed person. Unfortunately, being normal is now abnormal for all sides, especially far left who hate people in the middle more than anything else.
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Straight-Ad-3239@reddit
I’m curious, why do you think you’re not left enough for leftists? You definitely sound like a liberal to me.
annilia512@reddit (OP)
i think one of the main reasons is because like i said i support lgbt+ but also believe i can’t force anyone to agree and although i disagree with their opinion, i support their right to had it. and i don’t really like any of the “liberal” options in our government either.
needledicklarry@reddit
Your positions minus the libertarian tax/healthcare ones are in line with most progressive lefties.
Liberals (at least those in power) are pro-Israel.
“Abolish all police” is not a position held by serious individuals. Reform of the police (like better training and not allowing them to investigate themselves when they commit crimes) is more in line with actual lefty thought.
You go far enough left, you get your guns back. But a vast majority of Americans agree there should be some form of gun control.
Lefties hate our healthcare system. Cutting taxes wouldn’t fix anything about the system though. We need to cut out the middlemen insurance companies. A universal healthcare option would help with that - with hundreds of millions on the same plan, the feds would be able to pressure private insurance brokers to decrease their costs to compete. We pay enough in taxes right now to afford trying this at no additional cost to Americans.
nuNconfused@reddit
The internet trope of putting down the “both sides” argument shames us into either camp. But it really doesn’t matter if you are a progressive leftist, libertarian, conservative, or liberal. Politicians who give you their ear are either too weak, too small, or too corrupt. I mean, look at the fight against data centers in my neck of the woods in Pennsylvania. The locals who have to live near them are overwhelmingly against them, but that really amounts to nothing. No one within any level of power, whether local, state, or federal respects you.
HeartMain@reddit
same
Sargo8@reddit
I consider libertarians a collection of individuals, than a unified political party. Each of us have different ideas that we feel strongly about, which leads to us fighting a lot. Which is good, teaches how to defend a position, but also teaches you to learn more about other positions. All of your points, i would love to argue for or against. And in a physical setting, with some beers, its fun!
patbagger@reddit
Libertarians are going to truly disappoint you, because no one is ever Libertarian enough.
Good luck with your search
Alan_Turings_Apple@reddit
If there is one thing leftists and libertarians have in common it’s purity tests lol
KyotoInSummer@reddit
Yes, only republicans are accepting of one another in between shouting RINO at each other
annilia512@reddit (OP)
thanks 😂
Equivalent-Artist899@reddit
This and we tend to be batshit crazy
AdnorAdnor@reddit
Thank you for reminding me to play some Overkill today ✌️
AdnorAdnor@reddit
https://youtu.be/empMNpqpQvg?si=quRrpGyRLQvgZKuL
kittykisser117@reddit
If you are sane person with reasonable takes you will have no political home, and that is exactly the way it’s been manufactured to be on purpose.
stubrocks@reddit
When you say "equal rights" for lgbt... what do you mean? What rights are given to some, that are withheld from others? Laws are only written in terms of male and female, and (to my knowledge) no laws make any consideration or preferential treatment out of someone's identity expression.
EryktheDead@reddit
There’s honestly a gray area between moderate Republican and moderate Democrat even the libertarian movement is a little too absolutist these days. People who believe in 99% of the libertarian ideals, but understand that we need a national defense we probably need somebody enforcing food standards don’t have a place to land. A third, robust, aggressive, loud party would really do this country some good.
Phaylontis@reddit
A lot of libertarians get sucked in by Anarchisim.
crakked21@reddit
The idea is to be realistic and not be absolutist about rejecting any alliances that lower the property rights aggressions in favor for 100% pure ancap principle that doesn’t fly with most people.
UnleashTheOnion@reddit
Yeah, I've started feeling that way myself. Mostly because I'm no longer convinced that any small government is capable of staying small. It always seems to grow and corrupt itself.
rendrag099@reddit
because anarcho-capitalism is the logical conclusion of libertarianism, which upsets a lot of libertarians.
Phaylontis@reddit
It may be, we don't really know because we have never had a libertarian society.
Looking at it from a historical perspective, I doubt it. If anything, history shows that societies that begin closer to a libertarian state trend toward authoritarianism as time goes on. This is due to how much easier it is to pass new laws than it is to get rid of old laws. Humans have a tendency for group think, especially as the groups get bigger. So, while the ideology of libertarianism trends more towards anarcho-capitalism, the reality on the ground trends toward authoritarianism.
This is also one of the main reasons that Socialism so quickly becomes authoritarian.
rendrag099@reddit
I said ancap was the logical conclusion to libertarianism, not that if we had a libertarian society we'd end up with anarchy.
history shows that societies that begin closer to a libertarian state trend toward authoritarianism as time goes on
Of course. Because any State's first job is to perpetuate itself and justify its own existence. Expansion of this power is a natural byproduct of its self-preservation.
AnCap argues that if you take the core libertarian (NAP) and apply it consistently, without making exceptions for the State, you end up at anarchism. Here is the logic:
TianShan16@reddit
This is the way.
jeffreyan12@reddit
Yes, food safety (reasonable regs and not rev generation reg) and I understand basic home building inspection but I do not need one to replace an outlet. And should not take years for permits. Just a quick look over that your crap wire job is not going to burn down the neighborhood. Work in ag in California the paper work is insane. It’s freaking grapes.
jessetechie@reddit
Oh my gosh Ag in CA is crazy. Especially piece rate jobs like grape harvest.
LynahRinkRat@reddit
Well, at least you just made me feel better because I know I'm not the only one anyway. I could have written your post. I'm usually too right for the left, and too left for the right and both sides routinely disappoint me in terms of their willingness to infringe on individual rights and our freedom. I hang out here because I have nowhere else I even remotely fit in.
Alan_Turings_Apple@reddit
And then people call you a centrist or some other negative moniker because your political views don’t neatly align with a party platform lol
LynahRinkRat@reddit
Yep. That always annoys me. Forbid anyone thinks for themselves any more!
NotANonConspiracist@reddit
Exactly same
ebishopwooten@reddit
Some people find solitude liberating. Then become selectively social.
PigletAmazing1422@reddit
I ended uo here for the same reasons you did. I feel more home here politically than anywhere else.
Unlucky-Flatworm-568@reddit
Libertarianism is the right thing for you. One thing I'd like to add is that healthcare is not only ruined by taxation, it's also protectionism, bureaucracy, and corporatism. Look at some some private healthcare models around the world and you'll see that they get essentially the same quality for a quarter of what you pay.
dlham11@reddit
Pretty much, letter for letter, describing Libertarianism. A view that most people I’ve met don’t even realize they align with, and scoff at the remote idea of being lumped in with us.
Then proceed to describe our ideology as their own, then turn around and bootlick whatever their leading corrupt party member is at the time.
MightyMTB@reddit
This is your home lol what’s funny is lots of modern conservatives belong here too but don’t even consider it an option. I firmly believe if enough people were honest with themselves and open minded to leaving the big two parties that libertarians would be dominating the polls.
sudoer777_@reddit
Pretty much any group that's not a complete cult is going to have (often aggressive) disagreements on things.
Could be classical liberal, socialist, or some form of secular pro-establishment (i.e. Democratic in the US, more secular parties in other western countries). For "deserve equal treatment/rights", how you think that should work can impact this.
Sounds like classical liberal.
Kindof vague, so could be basically anything in the US except for the subset of Democrats who want total gun bans.
Sounds like classical liberal.
Could be classical liberal or socialist (depending on your other views on government).
Vague enough to be basically anything that isn't anarchism.
Could be classical liberal, socialist (although a subset of them will insist that it's western propaganda), the small subset of Democrats who don't like Israel, or the subset of MAGA who doesn't want anything to do with Israel.
IndependentTea678@reddit
I am mostly disenfranchised with the Libertarian party. I mean they put Chase Oliver on the presidential ballot FFS! I still align with most of the ideals but after seeing how useless the political party is, I have become more of an anarchist. My need for government is pretty much non existent at this point, and I have built a great group of friends and neighbors that allow us to be self-sufficient. This is a stark change from who I once was. I was a social media warrior and a member of every political debate group that wouldn't kick me out. I spent hours arguing with strangers just to prove that logic and facts are more important than feelings. Even though I won, did I really? Honestly, no one will remember us anyway. At best if you get grandkids they will typically be the last ones to remember you. My advice is stop worrying about politics, vote your conscience, and live your life! Be a positive impact on your local community and ultimately nothing else matters. Best of luck to you finding your political home!
Flat-Long5578@reddit
You dont need to choose a side. James Madison despised the idea of binary political system.
You should vote and act on the benefit of the people not the benefit of a party or government.
BeautifulBuy5248@reddit
You are welcome brother, i've got the same feeling than you. I only see how the system is rooted and the boths sides are the same trash.
AitrusAK@reddit
A lot of what you've written reflects Civic Nationalism. Might take a look into that.
annilia512@reddit (OP)
yeah idk i consider myself pro constitution at this point in time
AitrusAK@reddit
Civ-Nats are pretty supportive of the constitution.
robotic_love_brigade@reddit
I'm finding national identity tends to be co-opted for the right these days. Though I do think sometimes the liberals view of heightened democracy is part of what created our American exceptionalism once, if that ever was once a thing.
AitrusAK@reddit
You're not wrong. But I think that the left tries to seize national identity, twist it, and use that twisted version to bolster their political goals. So both sides are guilty of it, just in different ways.
savageunderground@reddit
Why do you feel the need to ‘fit in’. Why do you feel that because you don’t have a label that fully applies, that you are somehow homeless? Who cares. Advocate for what you believe in.
annilia512@reddit (OP)
fair, idk i feel like wanting to fit in somewhere is human nature but you’re right.
ebishopwooten@reddit
Stoicism comes to mind for some reason. 🤔
annilia512@reddit (OP)
i googled that and i’ll def look more into it. for a while o thought about the green party, but i don’t fit there either.
MM800@reddit
"I believe abortion should remain between the woman, her partner, and her doctor" - Her partner has never had any say on the matter at all - none at all, not ever.
Her partner can insist; "I believe abortion is murder, I want you to have this child." and the woman does whatever she wants, without regard for him, his morals, and his beliefs.
Her partner can insist; "I can't afford to raise a child, it will ruin my life!" and once again, the woman does whatever she wants - even if it ruins his life. The court will ensure he will be financially responsible for the child until the child becomes an adult.
When it comes to abortion rights, women have always had ALL of the rights, and men have none.
annilia512@reddit (OP)
yeah i agree and that’s exactly what i mean, that convo should happen between them as i believe being on the same page about abortion and birth in general is important. at the end of the day tho women are the ones giving birth and being pregnant so that is her decision. sorry im really bad at wording my thoughts sometimes.
not_a_expert69@reddit
I feel libertarian but I have liberal tell me I’m liberal and conservatives tell me I’m conservative
Like economically I’m pretty conservative I hate hate haaaate communism and socialism, I want lower taxes minimal gov involvement with my life
I’m also pro-weed, pro-choice I have a pretty live and let live mentality.
I dislike the liberals more then the conservatives cuz conservatives just disagree with u and that’s it when I say legalize weed and shit the Karen’s might bitch but they are far and few between
Liberals portray me as some demon when I say no I don’t wanna pay half my hard earned income towards taxes let me spend it how I want I worked for it. But to the socialist liberals apparently thats evil of me to want to have control over the money I earned. Like if the money is going to only benefit me anyways then what’s the difference to u?
annilia512@reddit (OP)
yeah like i get it everything is expensive and the economy is tanking, but i feel like i pay taxes just to pay more taxes and i’m tired of it.
youre_a_burrito_bud@reddit
I have very similar opinions on all those issues and have come to accept there just isn't really party for us. In recognizing that humans as social creatures need to have a tribe, I've chosen to try to just think of myself and everyone around me as the "in-group," normal Americans.
Like all things, it can be taken to some extremes that are wacky, but I believe Libertarianism is the closest thing to the classical liberalism that formed the basis of this country, compared to whatever it is the current big parties are doing. Liberalism requires discussion and compromise, accountability and representation. Those values are severely lacking in this climate.
The divisions among us regular people are being purposefully heightened to stop people from seeing the deeper problems with where the country has gone.
annilia512@reddit (OP)
yeah i’m only 24 but when i first started getting into politics i would’ve considered myself a democrat, but they’re… disappointing to say the least
Key_Hurry_4570@reddit
Congrats your normal. It usually takes time for normal people to come to terms with changes.
annilia512@reddit (OP)
what even is normal anymore 🥲
ComicBookFanatic97@reddit
I think you might be a classical liberal.
annilia512@reddit (OP)
I’m never liberal enough for them either😂
mtrives02@reddit
I think you'll fit right in with libertarians. If you're interested, it might be worth exploring the ideas to see if they resonate with you. Besides that, I'm not from the US, but the feeling I get is that many Americans are fed up with the two party system, so libertarian or not, you're definitely not alone
KnuckleJab@reddit
Labels are meaningless and dangerous. The Left and Right spectrum is a lie designed to keep the commonfolk fighting while the elite drain us dry. Political identity is so much more nuanced than that.
The label behind the values aren't real. Everyone has values that can be assigned to a "side" but humans naturally gravitate towards groups. It feels good to be on a "team" and believe in their direction over the other. But it's not real.
The elites don't care.
Down with the two party system. It's two sides of the same shitty coin.
If society wakes up, then maybe we'll have a chance on genuine politicians gaining the power they need to fight back against corruption.
But I won't hold my breath.
robotic_love_brigade@reddit
While disliking how prime ministers are chosen, I do like the parliamentary system. It seems like it represents more voices, more voices that get a chance to form their own groups as parties, instead of us having to , choose between a shitty Coke and Pepsi.
Pmjc2ca3@reddit
I mean expanding on Israels influence, many foreign governments lobby in the US, with top spenders being Saudia Arabia, China, Japan and the UAE. The two parties want people to constantly get caught up in echo chambers and left and right debates. It's better to support things based on conviction and reasoning. No foreign government should have a large influence on our policy. Especially when that means going to war when many citizens are against it.
robotic_love_brigade@reddit
Exactly, the Gulf states, Israel, and our biggest trading partners. The first two buy tons of our weapons, the second one provides us intelligence in the region, the first sell us their oil, and the trading partners sell the stuff that we like to buy.
KillerQueen27_s@reddit
Don't forget to mention Qatar; they've spent nearly 100 billion dollars in the last two decades on lobbying our government.
robotic_love_brigade@reddit
You found home
Rvtrance@reddit
A libertarian will be called a democrat by republicans. A republican by democrats and a fake libertarian by other libertarians. If that sounds like you welcome to the big but mostly empty tent that is the Libertarian movement.
Beanyurza@reddit
In the US at least, it seems the political parties expect 100%, in-lock-step agreement with the party and the most publicly visible people of that party. I've never been able to do that. I question everything and everybody especially if they have power. I was called a "traitor to the nation" by a republican and a "traitor to the Constitution" by democrat in the space of one week back in 2004. I have had no "political home" since. Fuck'em all.
rodso64@reddit
First off -- * HUG * I think you could use that. Second, don't get stuck thinking only in terms of "left" or "right". Check out the Nolan Chart.
Jdn101@reddit
Your views fit a lot of the main libertarian viewpoints.
You’re not homeless, but unfortunately your home has been compromised and many people who would have called themselves libertarian, and many who still do, are actually authoritarian apologists in disguise. Time for us to get to work and start taking out the trash.
Capable_Luck847@reddit
everything you wrote feels like it was taken outta my mind. from the 2A take to the anti-war to stopping all exchange w israel. especially because if we stopped supplying them with weapons etc., Palestine would be safer, and have a real chance at becoming their own nation. i wish the majority of america thought this way, we could actually become a decent country
NotANonConspiracist@reddit
You are me
AmMdegen@reddit
Welcome
acemedic@reddit
✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅
Yea mate, I think you’re just reasonable and have the capability to think for yourself but I understand the desire to find politicians who’ll align with that.
Problem is the lobbyist won’t let them.
Daltonjcw@reddit
Everyone feeling like this should check out The Political Orphanage and Andrew Heaton.
SmartLady@reddit
Yep thats where I land also.
John_1992_funny@reddit
I agree with most of what you're saying, but we can't move forward in these circumstances with uncertainty. We can't sit around hugging our knees in sorrow and remain hopeless. These problems can only be solved by us.
Mindless-Law8046@reddit
Is it possible that we really misunderstand the nature of freedom?
skiphandleman@reddit
Not sure why you got downvoted. It's a legitimate question. Democrats and Republicans have very peculiar definitions of freedom. E.g. freedom of speech, as long as it doesn't offend certain groups or contradict a desired historical narrative.
UsuallySatire@reddit
Welcome home.
ebishopwooten@reddit
Heaven on earth
LowEntertainer1420@reddit
It's called being apolitical. There's nothing wrong with it, the fact is that both sides are bad and they are all in it together. You ever heard of George Carlin? "It's a big club and you ain't in it"
Hashtag_Labotomy@reddit
Look man, when ya go to mickey dees and you see all the options, in the political realm ya don't have that many options . When your stuff don't align with Big Mac and McChicken, and it's the only two options, most of us feel alienated. I promise though that others out there that expect more of our gov do exist. Not only do they exist but they exist in many forms. Most end up dem or two..there in is the problem. We don't need a 3rd party, we need many more options and we need people to own up to their actual beliefs and not be mindless fools. I happen to be a libertarian and what that means in America and I still recognize the fact we need not only free thinkers, but people to think for themselves. Whether or not you are a libertarian doesn't change the fact that we need more people like you with the ability to think, learn and educate themselves on what they want out of where they live. Good luck my friend and keep on being a free thinker.
qualitygoatshit@reddit
You're just a moderate. All pretty common sense things, that I think the majority of America would agree on. Unfortunately both the left and right have gone further to the extreme. I really believe a moderate candidate could come out of nowhere, run as a third party and focus on anti corruption, easily agreeable 80/20 type issues and win the presidency. If he doesn't get suicided first.
cleanmachine2244@reddit
IMO the MAGA movement successfully used disdain for liberals and democrats to co-opt large swaths of the libertarian movement. Both groups have a disdain for federal centralized power , socialism and bureaucracy.
Trump did this more successfully than previous Conservatives because of his promises to avoid war. This despite traditional institutional libertarians like the CATO institute/ Reason magazine really pushing back against Trump.
Well the mask is now off and we still exist in a two party system so libertarians and old school liberals who used to exist on a closer plane now are both homeless when it comes to the vote and the majority of Americans are unhappy with their options.
SlavTac@reddit
You’ve basically just describe what it’s like to be a normal, level headed person. Unfortunately, being normal is now abnormal for all sides, especially far left who hate people in the middle more than anything else.
CloudPotential9482@reddit
Your not alone. You make a lot of sense to me at least.
utahtransitfan@reddit
You are not alone in this. Just remember that!
Uncle_Paul_Hargis@reddit
I hear you brother. It's frustrating.
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