Facing heavy losses, Honda cancels its three US-made electric vehicles
Posted by besselfunctions@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 384 comments
Posted by besselfunctions@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 384 comments
aaronaanderson@reddit
Honda dropping the ball so hard. They're not only smashing their toes but having it bounce up into their face... It was such a good looking car and they'd be raking in cash if they just made not a crap ev. Especially with the gas prices falling ever upwards. Complete victory, mission accomplished.
raginnation999@reddit
Biggest loser here is Acura. They will go down to a measly 3 cars in the line-up since the RDX is going into hiatus. For the next 2 years, Acura is now in a similar state to Infiniti... imagine saying that a couple of years ago.
SophistXIII@reddit
Can't help but think a hybrid RDX and an MDX would do really well.
Acura has been very competitive in pricing as compared to Lexus and I think there's lots of room in the market for competitively priced hybrid premium/luxury compact and mid size SUVs.
Gah_Duma@reddit
It's so easy, let me be CEO. The Integra and ADX are good moves even though the internet shits on it for being a fancied up Civic. Guess what, that's what new car buyers want. Refresh the RDX and MDX with the new CR-V and Passport and they've got themselves some easy winners.
beepbopboop66@reddit
The integra has always been a fancy civic. I never understood that complaint.
Gah_Duma@reddit
Yeah, although back in the day my buddy had a 95 Integra that we worked on and man was it not fancy at all.
spamhaminc@reddit
It’s not fancy but that shit last 30 years no problem.
sa09777@reddit
The ADX is grossly overpriced. I own a 2017 RDX and was thinking of upgrading to a 25 $55k for an Aspec. The salesman was hell bent on pushing a ADX Aspec. At $48k there is no real savings. It’s half the size with a worse driveline and honestly, if it drives anything like the HRV it belongs in the dumpster. I drove a HRV for 10 minutes picking it up at the dealer and bringing it to my shop. What a truly dreadful car and driving experience. Honda needs to invest into Acura with some more unique models. The TLX was a hell or a car but you can get better for the money. If they want to be premium they actually need to be premium.
I currently own 3 Honda products. A odyssey MDX and the RDX. I’m disappointed in the current lineups to be honest.
Kirklistentowutang@reddit
They just need to make an Integra with the Civic Hybrid drive train and SH-AWD in a hatchback. It would basically be a hybrid Type S.
eneka@reddit
I think the main problem is their battery capacity. They dont have enough battery capacity to hybridize everything even though the development is there already. Maybe when their new battery plant comes online hopefully this year.
https://www.cbtnews.com/honda-acquires-lg-energys-ohio-ev-battery-plant-for-2-9b/
African-Rain-Blesser@reddit
If battery capacity is the bottleneck, shouldn't they then prioritize using them in their higher margin higher ATP cars (i.e. Acuras) rather than in their Honda products?
teggyteggy@reddit
But you also have to consider that Acura is Honda's bastard child that Honda doesn't really care about. They rather you pay for $40,000 Accord
smexypelican@reddit
I hope what this means is with all that extra battery capacity from the cancelled EVs, we get mass hybrids for all their models and into Acura.
Right now hybrids just make sense for the US and does not require any change in behavior from the consumer. EVs are a big change and without major infrastructure investments or new battery chemistry we're just not going to get there quickly.
funnyfarm299@reddit
It's insane that they haven't stuffed the Civic hybrid in the Integra by now. I would have bought one instead of my CR-V.
MetalGhost99@reddit
I agree the Integra is a disaster compared to their Civic Type R but then again their Acura side doesn't exist in Japan so that might have a lot to do with it.
Castrol-5w30@reddit
I got a Civic Hybrid, but would have spent more to get it as an Integra. It's such a good power train.
Alive_Internet@reddit
I have one and feel the same way. The spec-sheet doesn’t really do it justice. On paper, it looks really similar to the powertrain in the Prius, but it somehow feels way smoother and makes way less noise vs the Prius.
Kirklistentowutang@reddit
It's also way faster in a straight line than the Prius. Hell it's faster than a Si in a straight line.
Throw SH-AWD and another motor in the back and that'd be a sleeper hybrid.
hugh_madson@reddit
I just bought my accord, I would've gotten a Hybrid Integra to have memory seats and a nice sound system.
narcistic_asshole@reddit
That's always the frustrating thing with Acura and the civic-based option. If you're going to base a luxury car off your economy car platform, it should at least have the best of what the economy car has to offer. The ILX was a full generation behind the civic during its time, and now the Integra is still using the 1.5T/CVT powertrain that they replaced in the Civic with their far superior hybrid system
PenonX@reddit
You mean to tell me you didn’t want a color matched grille instead????
MetalGhost99@reddit
They have to be to sell anything. Only car they make now that's worth buying is the MDX and this is coming from an Acura TL 3rd Gen owner. I wish I would have gotten an MDX instead for utility reasons.
flatpetey@reddit
The MDX literally survived on Toyota ignoring the 3-row market; once the Grand Highlander / TZ came out, it was all over.
Masteguy635@reddit
Both of those are coming pretty sure, but not for a while. They put too much emphasis into the EV models and now they have to backpedal due to the low market demand. I think the hybrid RDX was confirmed for 2027 and they're working on a hybrid V6 for the large platform hondas (Pilot, Passport, MDX).
raginnation999@reddit
That's the plan for the RDX: new platform with hybrid. What irks me though is that they refuse to hybridize the Integra and ADX even if its a stop gap. They can do it very easily since they share a lot with the Civic and ZR-V/HR-V so the hybrid could bolt right in. The powertrain itself has comparable performance to the 1.5 VTEC Turbo (sometimes even better) yet returns way better fuel economy.
Clover-kun@reddit
Why innovate when you can crank out MDX's powered by the effectively the same V6 from 20 years ago?
>inb4 Honda fanbois tell me how this J series V6 that guzzles premium and barely makes 300hp is radically different than the 2 decade old J series V6 that guzzles premium and barely made 300hp
darkfires102@reddit
Timing belt V6 on a premium segment car is insanity. Always boggled my mind. Can't think of many other brands with a timing belt still for sale.
Few-Top-9509@reddit
MDX sales have declined too, the whole brand is on the edge. I don’t remember a time this bad since its inception. It’s a shame, I have such a soft spot for Acura and they continue to fumble harder. I thought Acura might have planned something big for its 40th but here we are today.
KingMario05@reddit
I just want a new TL, man. Even if it's a rebadged Accord with a too-big-for-its-own-good V6 shoved in there. Let's be honest, that's basically what it always was to begin with.
MetalGhost99@reddit
Love my Third Gen TL. There was a time Accord looked interesting with that V6 but there isn't one now with a V6 and they are trying to do the same with the TL.
rohaniscoo1@reddit
so the tlx type s that people did not buy 😭
Nwrecked@reddit
That thing would have sold like hot cakes if it had another 20-30 horsepower. 350 just isn’t quite enough to take it to that wow factor for fancy accord.
rohaniscoo1@reddit
yeah maybe in an advertising sense as it would help “one-up your neighbor” but all the reviews make the car seem like a great handling car, which feels more important overall than straight line speed
Nwrecked@reddit
The car is fantastic. I have one. It’s everything I want in a car.
MetalGhost99@reddit
Has a lot to do with both the Honda leadership and the leadership side of Acura. Both are out of touch with reality and their customers.
MetalGhost99@reddit
The MDX is the only think Acura has going for it.
MonkeysRidingPandas@reddit
Honda shoehorning direct injection into the J35 is one of my biggest complaints about the company. They clearly didn't know how to do it right (evidenced by the recall) and it's noisy and unrefined. Takes the J-series from one of the smoothest 6-cylinders of all time into an also-ran.
Old_Ad_881@reddit
The modern j-series is one of the most overrated engines on the market. VCM has caused so many recalls that the 2.0t K20 ends up being better in every way. But nostalgia sells and people remember how good the old j35s were and hate turbo 4s.
MonkeysRidingPandas@reddit
Any thoughts on the new DOHC? I haven't given it a whirl yet but it seems functionally the same.
Old_Ad_881@reddit
The J35Y8 with DOHC has only been out since 2023 so not enough time to tell. They still have VCM though, and compared to the J35Y6 (which has all the recalls on it), they removed VTEC, so it only has VTC (variable valve timing, not variable valve lift).
It also has the same power as the older engines so im not sure what the point of adding DOHC was, probably emissions. I was hoping that DOHC would allow them to remove VCM, which seems like it was the main cause of the J35Y6 failures. Honda needs a VTEC DOHC V6 with no cylinder deactivation, that would probably be as reliable as the older J engines.
Like i said before i prefer the K20C4 as it has the same power, slightly better fuel economy, VTEC on the exhaust cams and no VCM.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
It's almost 30, not 20. Honda's youngest engine family is 20.
MetalGhost99@reddit
Honda/Acura has been very mismanaged the past 20 years. My Acura will be the last honda I will probably own. Want to move to Lexus but I don't want a turbo engine so might have to move to a European or American car.
magbarn@reddit
They killed the TLX to make room for these 3 EVs that have been cancelled. OMGWTFBBQ is Honda HQ doing?!
Old_Ad_881@reddit
No one bought the TLX. It also was horrifically packaged. The integra is smaller and has almost double the cargo space and more passenger space aswell. They really need to give the integra the drivetrain of the tlx though.
sprchrgddc5@reddit
Integra, ADX, and MDX. All just sort of built off other Honda platforms, which isn’t a bad thing if you’re an architect I guess.
Normal_Light_4277@reddit
Right before oil price hits all time high... Great foresight!
TofuAddiction@reddit
That’s gonna be problematic for all economy mass market cars no? I guess the only none ev cars that do get sold are the ones with prestige badge like the European/japanese luxury vehicles?
DeTomato_@reddit
Fascinating. I thought range and interior space were universally accepted as the most important factors in choosing an EV. Also, this kinda explains the gimmicky features found on Chinese cars.
I can understand why the Chinese aren’t as concerned about range. They have access to impressive rail networks and air transport options, so people prefer public transport over road trips. Also, given the popularity of EVs in China, they must have a good charging infrastructure.
captainnowalk@reddit
Not just that, some places have hot swap battery stations. Get a fresh, fully-charged battery in under 5 minutes… that’d be something I think would be cool to see here. I think it’d get a ton more people on-board as well.
They just really went all-in on the EV side since they could more easily skip the “everyone has an ICE vehicle to go everywhere” phase. And the public transport is leagues better than here in most places, so most people aren’t as concerned with range, as noted.
SloCalLocal@reddit
A company called A Better Place tried battery swap stations. They didn't work well in the American market but perhaps someone will give it another shot. One problem is the substantial capital investment needed for the swap station, which means you need a lot of density of users to make it pencil out in the long run. This works great in tight dense environs like Israel, less great in California.
exoriare@reddit
Prior to the Model 3, all Teslas were capable of swapping batteries, but they didn't advertise it - because as soon as you make swapping a thing, people will delay purchasing until there's a swap station near them.
Tesla built one swap station in LA, but the way they did it frustrated everyone. Your swapped battery was considered a loaner, so you had to come back and pick up your own battery within a couple days. You weren't able to change battery capacity, and there were a couple more restrictions.
teggyteggy@reddit
Just imagine the regulations and red-tape around swapping a battery. It sounds like a nightmare in the US. The US is no longer set-up for innovation
exoriare@reddit
While I agree in a broader sense, regulations weren't cited as an issue for Tesla's battery swap - they just said that nobody wanted it.
And of course nobody wanted it, because they treated it more like a loaner battery than an actual battery swap, and there was only 1 swap station.
It was such a missed opportunity - if they could have made swap stations along the I-5, it would have been huge. The swapping process was fully automated, and a swap took less time than it took to fill an ICE car with gas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE81S26XG8c
Previous-Height4237@reddit
I think it's something else. It was entirely financials that affected Tesla's dumb decisions.
Those batteries have to be on someone's books, and accounting for what could be billions of dollars of batteries is going to be a nightmare for a public market company.
hutacars@reddit
You can charge a Chinese EV in 5 minutes. Battery swap stations were always going to be obsoleted.
Owe-No@reddit
It'd be interesting to see how that works out with older, more degraded batteries.
captainnowalk@reddit
This is just going off what my brother learned about when he was in China talking to the techs: They check the battery health for each returned battery. Once they fall below a certain threshold, they’re returned to a recycling facility where either bad cells are replaced, or healthy cells are pulled to replace bad cells in other packs.
As for cost: it’s a monthly fee, I don’t think they pay per swap. So most people don’t care if they’re getting +/- 50 miles, generally. They’ll just swap it out again when it’s too low.
The monthly fee isn’t exactly cheap, though, so not everyone uses it. It’s a lot of commercial vehicles if I recall correctly, as they’re saving a fuck ton of money having their vehicles still moving rather than charging in the lot. Taxis, delivery/couriers, stuff like that that runs 24/7.
SloCalLocal@reddit
That's part of the problem. Person A does a swap and gets much more range than person B just due to the luck of the draw (B gets an older battery, one with more fast charges on it, whatever). Both presumably pay the same amount. One customer ends up displeased.
To avoid complaints you might artificially cap the range on the batteries to a lowest common denominator, but then people aren't getting the range they expect from their expensive electric car — maybe not a problem in Israel where A Better Place did okay, but perhaps not so great in a more spread out area.
Battery swap systems seem to work best when there are no consumer expectations, like if you're doing it with a municipal bus fleet. All it has to do is be able to finish the route, the drivers won't complain what battery they get as long as it gets them back to the yard.
Gah_Duma@reddit
Much better because the batteries can easily be recycled. But battery degradation is a non-issue already other than people fearing the unknown or thinking about their phone batteries.
spacetimebear@reddit
Not everyone is concerned about range with EVs, sure good range is nice as a "do it all" car but I'm much more concerned with the ride comfort and tech.
MetalGhost99@reddit
EV's don't do well at all in the winter. Once it gets below freezing those suckers start dying and can't keep a charge.
spacetimebear@reddit
The global leader in EV adoption is Norway...
TwilightMachinator@reddit
I am less concerned about tech. All I really want in a car is a stereo system (with a cd player and Bluetooth connectivity), regenerative braking, climate control, possibly a couple of standard wall receptacle outlets, and physical controls for anything that I would reasonably adjust while driving. Range is also a big thing for me for my non daily uses such as camping.
I want systems that are not tied to a central computer and dependent on the car’s programming for functionality. Code is rarely a robust component of design as bugs, errors, and data corruption can occur. My car should not need a firmware update to function.
All of this is possible with electric cars but it requires a different design mentality to drive development.
jesusrambo@reddit
“Code is rarely a robust component because bugs can occur” is absolutely hilarious
avoidhugeships@reddit
The popularity of EVs in China is due to massive government subsidies and rules that make it hard to buy an ICE vehicle.
cat_prophecy@reddit
It's like if you put a massive tax on something, people will stop buying that thing and buy something else.
MetalGhost99@reddit
I remember snowboarding in Zermatt, Switzerland 18 years ago. The whole town was electric and no ICE vehicles allowed. Also everything was in walking distance so you didn't need a vehicle to get anywhere that was their secret. EV's would do well during the winter there.
markeydarkey2@reddit
China implemented those policies with the goal of reaching 50% EV sales by 2035, they hit that goal last year way faster than anticipated. It's a reason but definitely not the only factor.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
You need passing the draw to buy combustion car in large Chinese cities or pay lot of fees for license. Yea, these really push to buy EVs.
MetalGhost99@reddit
Word is they are building a lot of Nuclear reactors for their infrastructure something the US wont do because the far left put a chock hold on it.
thecurlyburl@reddit
Your very last part is definitely why - they don’t even have to think about it.
CaptainGo@reddit
This is like three degrees of separation (friend of a friend) but I've heard that petrol stations get pushed to the outskirts of the cities so combined with the traffic it's actually much less convenient to have an ICE where you have to travel to a specific destination vs a vehicle you can charge at home and/or work
muftak3@reddit
Hyundai can't compete in the software update arena. My '26 Kona updated the software the other day to have more accurate voice search for Sirius XM. Not stability issues with wireless AA or remove having to confirm twice who is driving.
DeviousMelons@reddit
"One more update can fix the ICCU trust me bro"
SophistXIII@reddit
Hyundais have gotten so much more reliable, bro. It was just the Theta engines, bro. It was just the flaking paint, bro. It was just the DCTs, bro. It's just ICCU issues, bro. Just some engine fires, bro. They've gotten so much better since ~~2020~~, ~~2021~~, ~~2022~~, ~~2023~~, ~~2024~~, ~~2025~~, 2026, bro. The N versions are fine, bro. They're much more reliable in Europe, bro. My Elantra has 53 miles on it and I've never had an issue, bro. Killing it, bro.
teggyteggy@reddit
I'm genuinely confused by this comment, because Hyundais have gotten more reliable? With Toyota, I'd avoid the TTV6's too. With Honda, I'd avoid their 1.5t engines for head gasket issues and 3.5L V6 for rod-bearing failures. With Hyundai/Kia, I'd avoid their old theta engines and DCTs which are being phased out
MetalGhost99@reddit
The dumbest move honda made was canceling their V8 engine program.
teggyteggy@reddit
Their biggest mistake was going EVs instead of hybrid first like Toyota. Companies like Toyota can make their TTV8 like in the newest Halo cars BECAUSE of their massive sales meanwhile Honda's cost cutting, poor performance offering, inability to compete with Toyota, and massive dive into EV is leading into massive losses
Innocent-Bystander94@reddit
Nah, you would be better served avoiding the Hyundai brand entirely if you want anything reliable
LowSkyOrbit@reddit
I have an 8 year old Tucson with the 1.6 Turbo, DCT, 100k on the clock. Wife and I love it and it drives great, but looking to replace it because now with two kids and their crap we barely fit when we need to go anywhere.
teggyteggy@reddit
I mean, I agree, but there's plenty of consumers who are okay driving around VW, Nissans, Ford, GM, and other vehicles that aren't exactly known for their stellar reliability. While I'm not giving Hyundai the most reliable automaker award, I don't think their reputation should be any worse than those other ones mentioned
Rillist@reddit
I cant tell if this is sarcasm or not. I put 150,000kms on a 1.5t civic sport and 400,000, (650,000 combined) between my ridgeline and the gfs crosstour. Just fluids and maintenance items, timing belts and tires.
Sold the ridgeline still purring like a kitten and we still have the crosstour
teggyteggy@reddit
There's plenty of examples you can make with any unreliable engine with plenty of units making it to 200k miles+ tbf. it's not an issue as prevalent as other issues, but if your goal is reliability, then like another commenter said, there are better cars and therefore powertrains than a 1.5t + CVT
DeLoreanAirlines@reddit
Trust him, he’s had a Hyundai for under a year /s
Wolfo93@reddit
They actually are quite reliable here in Poland ;p
JournalistExpress292@reddit
Hyundais are incredibly popular in Asia, you see them everywhere in India, Jordan, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, etc. They are also used as taxis in those countries as well as in Singapore.
If they were truly that bad they wouldn’t be that popular.
Rillist@reddit
They're popular because they're cheap and not immediately disposable
Innocent-Bystander94@reddit
Cigarettes were extremely popular, they were bad. Vaping is extremely popular, it’s bad. Just because something is popular doesn’t mean it’s good. Hyundais are priced low, maybe that’s all they can afford after their old Hyundai breaks down. Maybe the fell for the features trick.
Bikesguitarsandcars@reddit
I will have 220,000 miles on the odometer when I get home and I’m still on factory brakes and rotors
SeaweedNo69@reddit
I mean, I had a 10 forte koup 2.4liters with 150k+ miles and only oil, plugs, serpentine belts and 1 AC compressor. Biggest job/item was a clutch replacement after 130k (6 speed manual).
13 hyundai sonata 2.4l with 200k+ miles and the biggest job was a high pressure fuel pump
Now family has venues and sportages with no issues yet (they are relatively new tho, sub 40k on both)
expl0dingsun@reddit
Sucks that this is an issue, that’s a pretty major flaw but everything else about the car is what I’d be looking for in an EV.
TheProwlerMech@reddit
I bought an EV6 GT 3 weeks ago, I'm now just a little bit more nervous each day... Eventually the ICCU will come for me!
jemlinus@reddit
Don't worry. I have GV60 and new cars have no ICCU issues.
teggyteggy@reddit
When are these companies finally going to TRULY invest in software? Toyota has Arene coming up and Hyundai certainly isn't the WORST when it comes to software, but it wasn't that long ago when Ford cut hundreds of connected-vehicle software jobs. None of these companies are even CLOSE to competing with Tesla despite their downfall.
Imagine Tesla-like software features, but in a normal hybrid/ICE car with decent physical controls and ergonomics. It's not unrealistic to ask for unlike enthusiasts who expect an entirely new V8 or powertrain.
ALOIsFasterThanYou@reddit
While it’s true that EV market share has been growing steadily in China, ICE-powered cars still make up around 40% of the market. Given the size of China’s market, that’s still a lot of cars.
That said, ICE car sales are mostly of mainstream, non-luxury cars. I’d note here that while foreign automakers tend to do poorly with EVs in China (with some exceptions), on the ICE side, they still hold a large part of the market via their joint ventures.
But with the ICE market trending towards the lower end, the luxury segment is no exception to the trend of domestic automakers displacing foreign ones. Audi still does relatively well with the A6, but the overall trend is still one of lower sales. Even at the very high end, the S-Class is seeing its sales eroded by the introduction of Huawei’s Maextro.
MetalGhost99@reddit
Do the foreign automakers perform poorly for lack of local government support like the local EV car companies in China? China props up their EV industry heavily through the government and it's the main reason it's remotely even successful there.
rx-pulse@reddit
Having just recently returned from a country with a lot of Chinese EVs and having been in/driven them, this is about par for the course. Range is not enough by US standards for most, but their main selling points are cost and software features. Surprisingly, their own interior features are quite spartan. US is a niche use case where we value range because of how far we drive and we have the bigger is better trend here.
Lost_Most_9732@reddit
Americans drive more than similar countries but only by about twice as much at most, which is to say less than 40 miles per day total.
Average americans think that they drive too much for the modern EV but the numbers tell a different story.
KingBee@reddit
The numbers in aggregate maybe, but if 5 times a year I drive 6 hours away for the weekend then that is enough to make one go ICE over EV even if most of the time the EV would work fine for my regular daily range.
hutacars@reddit
Why? 6 hours at 70 MPH is 420 miles. Any car can do that. A modern EV will require a single 20 minute stop.
koreanwizard@reddit
My parents are currently on mile 7000 of a road trip across the US in an EV. You’re talking about EVs like it’s 2012 lol. This is truly only a talking point from people who have never owned one.
thisis4bad@reddit
6hr drive is like 2 charging stops for 20 minutes each. I use that time to go pee, then grab a beverage and snack(full meal with a family in the car) and then get some steps in(even if it's miserable outside) because honestly sitting that long is bad for you.
That said on work trips in the ICE car I will stop for gas the 1x, pee 2x and do drive thru fast food. I can't get away with the short trips with a family anyway, last time we drove 4hrs we spent 40 minutes at a Sheetz in the middle of the drive eating and stuff.
Basically I think the average person is probably not imaging how these long trips go realistically with an EV and won't know until they own one.
I personally will never buy another ICE vehicle and I currently own a V8 SUV and have owned multiple V8 muscle cars. I just like EVs too much for 99% of my drives. When I get in our SUV I'm annoyed by the shifting and wheezing noises.
Honestly contemplating replacing it with a used R1S, but our SUV is pretty bulletproof so far so no real need.
Lost_Most_9732@reddit
Idk man, I just did a 12 hour I95 trip there and back and there were DC fast chargers every 30 to 70 miles.
It won't be like that for everyone but most Americans live near to urban centers and major highways. If it doesn't work out for you, maybe you're not the average American (and that's okay).
flatpetey@reddit
It's going to be a problem for luxury cars too. Some of the Chinese cars are already there, if people put behind their biases.
I suspect the Chinese will buy off Jaguar from Tata who have failed with it and some other defunct brands and just start spamming product into the West.
Gman_711@reddit
That was my problem with the Hyundai electric car I tested. It felt like an electric car with ultra basic. I think because of Tesla and rivian I expect electric cars to be technologically advanced and somewhat luxurious. If I’m gonna give up engine sound and quick gas stops I need something to make me feel like I’m in the future
flaagan@reddit
That's on par with what Top Gear covered in their "Chinese cars review" episode years ago. It wasn't that the cars were well made or efficient or anything, just that they had decent techy kit (stereo, heads-up display, etc), and they'd buy it up.
losteye_enthusiast@reddit
Hmm, I’d suggest it’s more Honda’s design philosophy that’s hit them there.
Kia hasn’t had issues with regularly updating their software, nor in offering a full suite of software features.
I frankly don’t know how much Honda needs the EV market of China and if it’d be worth them designing something aimed at that. If you or someone else knows a bit and wants to share, I’d be happy to learn more, I’m just ignorant on that part.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
You forgot the /s there.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Japanese automakers besides Toyota aren’t really popular in China anyway. Their main market is North America and South East Asia.
nguyenm@reddit
Disclaimer first, all of this is hearsay from a buddy who is a software contractor for one of many brands.
The "they want them regularly updated, too" is very improbable due to the culture of the legacy automakers towards anything software related. Specifically, within the ~5 years it take for a vehicle to start as a drawing and goes into production, that's all of the time period the car & infotainment software gets dev time.
Once a project for a infotainment system is marked "completed" and release, that's it no more work done and the personnels get reassigned.
Additionally, my buddy lamented on how often automakers require the contractors to work from effectively scratch, as the code archival or record keeping of the automakers are basically non-existent.
Recoil42@reddit
This is true, but it's way more complicated than that and it it's not a blanket assertion you can apply to all automakers infinitely into the future. They're transforming. It would take pages and pages of per-company analysis to explain it all, though.
Roughly, by around 2030 you should still expect "regular updates" to be a thing that does actually happen for most of the OEMs — it's just going to take awhile.
nguyenm@reddit
I agree, I initially over-generalized to keep the anonymity high, though assigning them all into one singular category is definitely an exaggerated assertion.
While it's true the legacy automakers are learning, they're still making a lot of mistakes. Such as before the AI-pocalypse, industry insiders & experts were applauding Volkswagen for it's hiring spree of software engineer during & post COVID (~2021-2023), this glut of manpower had the opposite effect of streamlining or modernizing workflows. The best product to showcase their failure is in the first delivery of their VW ID.3 hatchbacks.
Hence why "culture" is a difficult thing to modernize from, as long as their way of doing business holds.
Mytre-@reddit
It feels like an easy problem? Phone manufacturers can do it. Hyundai tried this approach with their infotainment , basically produce the same infotainment for all cars just change a photo of the car, but even then they fail on this just based on the fact that in the US only 2026 models get skins and features while 2024 to 2025 models may not even get a new skin or icon.... and now they change to a new system entirely before even attempting to fix issues. Another commenter said as it is now, hyundai sends updates to older models to fix siriuis xm issues, but not to add features, not even apps.
AN economy mass market car I think is possible to do software updates if you do the approach of 1 infotainment feature across all models and what changes is maybe the screen refresh rate, to make the luxury model more premium than the cheap models but ensure that the differences are minimal to allow just one software package for all vehicles. But this approach is updates to infotainment and apps in it, not "car" updates like maybe a patch to improve i dont know timing or maybe change gearing if somehow its allowed .
Also complaing with hyundai and kia, kia right now has more software on their models on the US, even a youtube app that can be used in non ev models, while Hyundai non ev models don't even get themes lol .
Baldboomer@reddit
What honda needs to do is cut the EV bullshit and just go full gas boy racer era 80,90s again agressively in africa , europe and south america.
kintotal@reddit
All these leading Asian companies are partnering with China firms to produce cars in the biggest markets, which the US is not. We've all but killed the US car industry with current policy and laws, and US cars are now considered the "Yugo" cars of this age. If Tesla were run by somebody sane we would stand a chance.
kilertree@reddit
It's almost EVs don't make money without subsidies. If dude a dude in a raptor R can get a 30k tax break for farming equipment we can subsdise EVs.
Main_Material_3525@reddit
eh well if no one wants em and they dont sell then they fail. thats how capitalism works
kilertree@reddit
Why don't we let the free market regulate the price of oil?
Senior-Damage-5145@reddit
Imagine if the US subsidized the cost of electricity like they subsidized the cost of gas.
jv9mmm@reddit
People keep claiming that gas is subsidized, but when you look it up it is all narrative and no substance. We do not subsidized oil amd gas production.
hutacars@reddit
Invading other countries to keep the oil flowing-- or, more recently, to give away their oil to O&G companies as a "thank you"-- is basically the ultimate subsidy. Nevermind allowing oil's consumers to use breathable air as a free dumping ground for its byproducts.
jv9mmm@reddit
Another great example of narrative without substance.
hutacars@reddit
More like you choose to ignore because it doesn't fit your "oil is unsubsidized" world view.
jv9mmm@reddit
We are net producers of oil, we are not invading Iran to get more of it.
hutacars@reddit
I never said anything about Iran. Look up what we just did in Venezuela sometime.
Also, being a net producer has nothing to do with whether we subsidize it or not.
jv9mmm@reddit
But it's not subsidized and it is a lie to say we do.
ahsnappy2@reddit
Look up the definition of “externalities.” By allowing oil and gas to make money off the products, but pay nothing for the harms it causes, we are subsidizing them. Every time we pay for someone’s medical care because of particulate caused lung cancer, that’s a subsidy. That’s just one example.
I understand thinking like this is a shift, and not easy. But when you look around you’ll realize that many companies are making giant sums of money while the public bears all of the costs, or the “externalities.” A responsible government is one that holds these companies accountable every time they pump too much effluent into a river, or sell a product that decreases the quality of our air and health.
ahsnappy2@reddit
Nearly every U.S. military action taken in the last forty years respectfully disagrees.
Leek5@reddit
Yea, if they want people to adopt ev. Make electricity cheap. People don’t really care about the green angle. It’s cost of ownership and where I am electricity is really expensive
hutacars@reddit
You can buy a solar panel and get free electricity for the next 30 years. It doesn't get much cheaper than that.
Leek5@reddit
I don’t own the roof and a lot of people rent
hutacars@reddit
Sure, my point is it's already cheap. The fact not everyone can take advantage of the cheapest energy is tangential to it existing.
DeLoreanAirlines@reddit
Where does the electricity come from? I hope nuclear because otherwise it’s back to gas or coal.
Koil_ting@reddit
People ignore this but it's a valid point, US electric production is Natural gas (42.3%), second is nuclear at 18.2% but many of the plants have shut down over the last 30 years including in major areas like California which only has one plant remaining. Next is coal at 15.9, so.. yeah need a lot more push from the renewables which have a high up front production cost which people don't want to put their wallets into via higher power bills.
SecretPantyWorshiper@reddit
Well they certainly aren't subsidizing it right now with the gas prices
Senior-Damage-5145@reddit
As of 2025 fossil fuels were subsidized at 34.8 billion dollars per year. So yes, gas is very much subsidized.
https://www.wired.com/story/us-taxpayers-will-pay-billions-in-new-fossil-fuel-subsidies-thanks-to-the-big-beautiful-bill/
1990Fox@reddit
We consume 300 million barrels of oil a day in the US alone, hard to believe but the 35 billion in subsidies won’t change the cost of gallon by much more than a penny.
B01337@reddit
The subsidies for oil are an indirect subsidy for gasoline (as well as the entire plastics industry, heating, and other forms of fuel), while the subsidies for for coal and natural gas are indirect subsidies for electricity, steelworks, and fertilizer.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
You're paying like what $4/gallon? Of course it's subsidized.
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Fozzymandius@reddit
Hate to tell you this but those are the subsidized prices.
ItsFuckingRawwwwwww@reddit
Reduce dependence on foreign countries for fuel? I’m a bit confused what you mean there; the US is a net exporter of fuel.
teggyteggy@reddit
Wow, so our President was wrong the whole time?
ItsFuckingRawwwwwww@reddit
Wrong about what?
Reaper621@reddit
Yes
kilertree@reddit
Solar power is profitable for free enterprise now. We might see more investment into that at least from local level.
As I like having 110 octane gas at my fuel pump, we should cancel the E85 subsidies and lease farmers land for solar panels. Farmers would still get paid mange their land so we have people to grow crops.
Reaper621@reddit
We should be putting solar on roadways, big open areas that have no real restrictions provided the structure for those solar stays are high above everyone's heads. Not that solar road crap that went nowhere.
gimpwiz@reddit
Wind is much more space efficient; they stick a windmill in the middle of farmland and get to still use almost all the farmland.
Solar makes much more sense where we don't farm. A single (large) county in Nevada could supply the entire US electric usage, in theory. Scrub bush, rather than fertile fields.
Snow_source@reddit
As someone who works in the solar industry, it won't.
These communities hate our fucking guts and get so angry they whip their state politicians into a frenzy to ban solar statewide.
molrobocop@reddit
Christ. And fuck them so much. They just sit outside drinking power, feeding the grid.
kilertree@reddit
Is it the rural areas or also the city areas.
Snow_source@reddit
My company operates exclusively in rural areas, partnering with farmers and major landowners.
Pretty much all the neighbors hate our guts when we first show up and it's been that way since I started working in the industry 8 years ago.
They decry the "loss of rural character" as the main reason to kick us out and change nothing.
Local governments out there have to be dragged kicking and screaming so we can throw millions in tax revenue at them over the 40-year life of these projects.
deja-roo@reddit
... lol?
Are you talking about natural gas or gasoline? Gasoline is in fact pretty heavily taxed, not subsidized. Electricity is actually subsidized.
kilertree@reddit
Oil is heavily subsidized. The Key Stone pipeline XL is for Canada because they don't define their fuel.
deja-roo@reddit
Every time someone tries to defend this "oil is heavily subsidized" claim they trot out some article that treats CO2 emissions as a "subsidy" or that oil companies can deduct normal costs of business like drilling from their taxable income as a "subsidy" even though that's how every business works.
At this point it feels deliberately misleading. You can't shift a "subsidy" of CO2 emissions into a way to make electricity cheaper.
kilertree@reddit
The President in 2020 signed an agreement to lower oil production with Saudi Aribia and Russia because it was hurting American oil producers. American oil producers are dependent on oil being a certain price to be profitable.
e92s65king@reddit
That’s not a subsidy.
deja-roo@reddit
I guess that's a fun fact?
But it doesn't have anything to do with anything I said?
stinktown@reddit
Every time someone tries to defend the “oil isn’t subsidized” claim, they blithely ignore the US’s heavy historical military involvement in the middle east. And with that, all of the costs incurred to do so. Iraq 1 and 2 and now with Iran, not to mention the bases we maintain and the naval presence we project on an ongoing basis, the US taxpayer has spent hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of billions over the years to maintain and secure the flow of oil from the region. None of these costs are passed through the price of a barrel of crude to recoup. At this point it feels deliberately misleading to ignore.
hutacars@reddit
It's all about comparative advantage. When we subsidize oil as much as we do, up to and including starting foreign wars over it, nevermind allowing its consumers to use breathable air as a free dumping ground for its byproducts, then yeah, competing technologies will look worse.
I propose we stop doing that. Let each technology play on a level playing field.
ggtsu_00@reddit
Somehow China made it work. US politicians are just to invested in fossil fuels to make it work. That's why they ban Chinese EVs from entering the U.S. market and slashed all subsidies to make the U.S. competitive globally with EV manufacturing.
markyymark13@reddit
Yeah there needs to be incentives top to bottom in the form of policy and regulatory changes. The fact of the matter is, EVs aren't going to move in significant numbers as long as the average purchase price stays at around $65K, while charging infrastructure is crap.
KriegThePsyc0@reddit
Plug in hybrid is the way for cars in my opinion. Enough juice To drive to work, but can gas up for long drives
NathenJee@reddit
One of few smart things Honda has done lately. Hopefully the full touch dashboard has also been cancelled in future models.
haworthsoji@reddit
Dang. The wins keep coming
ggtsu_00@reddit
Yeah fuck green earth! Let's speed run the Mad Max timeline.
discosoc@reddit
EV tech needs to be able to stand on its own merit, which it currently does not. That's a core problem to solve, and the benefits of EV vs modern gas burners aren't nearly as wide as people assume.
ggtsu_00@reddit
In the long run, EVs are more economically sensible than gasoline cars. They are significantly cheaper to run and maintain. Also electricity can be produced in many ways and is renewable while gasoline only comes from a single scarce source that's going to constantly increase in costs. What's not economically sensible yet is rolling out charging and support infrastructure if EVs are not yet widely adopted by consumers. Meanwhile consumers won't widely adopt EVs if they aren'r priced competitively nor if there isn't enough charging and support infrastructure for them. This is a catch-22 problem that needs subsidies get over the initial adoption hump.
discosoc@reddit
Majority of electricity is still generated through fossil fuels. There’s also significant challenges to disposing of ev batteries due to difficulty in recycling them, which is something that people are only in the early phases of having to figure out.
All in all, the manor issue is that all the renewable energy stuff has a massive feedback loop where all components needed to make it actually beneficial require subsidies and incentives to justify their adoption. Plus the whole cobalt mining type shit people want to handwave away.
MobileShrineBear@reddit
It's almost pointless to engage in any conversation on reddit regarding their sacred cows like EVs. Same people who don't understand the awful economics of EVs, also somehow don't understand the variety of issues with power generation needed to support a total replacement with EVs.
There's really only two solutions to that problem, deindustrialization for most people, while the oligarchs live like gods. Or mass adoption of nuclear energy, but the same people demanding internal combustion engine phase out, are also idiots that have only a cartoonish grasp of the dangers of nuclear energy, and as a result are vehemently against nuclear.
raphbo@reddit
In Canada 76% is hydro and nuclear, both are clean energy sources, only about 10% is natural gas and 10% is coal. And the natural gas is about half as dirty as coal.
kopiernudelfresser@reddit
Like cobalt use in oil refinement is also handwaved. Rare earth mining isn't an EV-only issue.
discosoc@reddit
Cobalt isn’t generally consumed during oil refinement. You comparison is asymmetrical.
gt4rs@reddit
it's amazing how cobalt mining becomes such an important point for people only when EVs are involved
Voxelblast@reddit
That’s not necessarily true. Where I live the power we get can vary based on weather from 30% generated by wind and solar, up to 70%. Renewable energy (and perhaps nuclear but that is a different discussion than the one on hand) is undoubtedly the future of the human race. It’s guaranteed that we will run out of fossil fuels at some point, and that point will be long after we badly fuck up the planet. Unless you are a reality denier, the only argument to be had is how soon will we get there. The writing is obviously on the wall for private passenger ICE vehicles. In a country like America especially, you have to start incrementally. Our government can’t instantly commit to widespread EV usage like they can.
Don’t get me wrong. I do love cars, but mostly from a distance because I couldn’t justify owning another gas guzzler. I already have 1 shitty low mpg car because it was all I can afford.
TL:DR We gotta start somewhere, even if the methods are inefficient at first. The longer we wait the more the planet gets fucked up.
ggtsu_00@reddit
How much electricity is generated by fossil fuels right now is irrelevant. The point is there are cheaper, more efficient sources for harvesting electricity to power a car. And the cost of renewable energy keeps going down while the cost of fossil fuels keeps going up.
Recycling batteries is already a solved problem, but currently there's not much incentive to do so. Same with manufacturing cobalt-free batteries. Rarely is recycling and waste reduction ever profitable. We'd all be drowning in piles of our own waste if it weren't subsidized. However, a mass adoption of EVs would significantly increase demand for recycled battery components making it more profitable. Again this is another catch-22 problem.
JB_UK@reddit
Yeah I think there are two phases for EV infrastructure, the first is regional coverage, and the second capacity. You find in most of Europe or China regional coverage is already there, a 100 mile route along the motorway in the UK will have 5-20 charging hubs. After you get over that barrier, capacity can gradually increase as the number of cars increases. The US is not yet reliably over the first barrier. You can compare US coverage to EU coverage here:
https://electroverse.com/map?ec=false&mcp=4&cps=50,350#filters
I think that is guaranteed to happen, the unification into one charging standard, and continual 8% sales, would do it, especially in regional markets. But the US will probably have an extended ramp up phase of the s-curve. The difficulty is that European and Chinese manufacturers are operating in markets that don’t have that constraint.
So Rivian and other US manufacturers could be great companies, but if they don’t have a market to expand into it’s going to struggle.
animerobin@reddit
It seems to stand on its own in China
discosoc@reddit
You forgetting the vast subsidies provided by the Chinese government over the last decade?
maveric101@reddit
What about US gas subsidies, and the subsidized healthcare costs resulting from lower air quality?
PEEWUN@reddit
It's almost like making a concerted effort to promote advanced technology allows that advanced technology to support itself more quickly...
MetaTrombonist@reddit
If people said stupid shit like this in the 80's, we'd all still be using AOL Online instead of the initially-government-funded internet.
Simon_787@reddit
Does fossil tech stand on its own merit or is it constantly subsidized by having society pay for the damages of the climate crisis?
jawknee530i@reddit
Seriously. It's unfortunate that too many people aren't intelligent enough to understand the concept of negative externalities.
Minimum-Ad3773@reddit
We sure are lucky you weren't around making decisions when ICE cars displaced horses and buggies. By your 'stand on its own merit from day one' logic, governments should've stayed out, o road funding, no support at all. Yet they built massive road networks (like the 1916 Federal Aid Road Act) and funded other initiatives to make cars practical. Early benefits over horses didn't seem 'wide' to everyone either, cars were unreliable, scared horses, needed non-existent roads, etc. The uneducated with no vision pushed back, just like now, but the superior technology won in the end.
Own-Neighborhood6828@reddit
Nobody wants them. Sorry you're alone
bigcoffeeguy50@reddit
This an extremely common thought outside of Reddit. The insanely poor sales reflect this as well.
Own-Neighborhood6828@reddit
Unfortunately the most up voted responses on reddit are bots, terminally online people that need to touch grass or children.
It's wild how our of touch it is.
bigcoffeeguy50@reddit
Your argument is that by not producing electric cars, which require slave labor, depletion of rare minerals, unreliable batteries, increased tire usage due to higher weight vehicles, and increased generation of electricity, that we are going to go mad max apocalypse?…
rematar@reddit
Batteries can be recycled, vehicle weight increase isn't enough to make a big difference. It's a quip recycled by folks who are afraid of change. Repairs are minimal.
bigcoffeeguy50@reddit
Repairs are minimal? Lmfao tell that to the few year old Tesla owners who’s vehicles lost 90% value because they need a drive motor that costs more than the car
magbarn@reddit
“By the gods, I worship Him, V8!”
JuliusCeaserBoneHead@reddit
Winning tirelessly. Too much winning
DeepFizz@reddit
I’m getting tired of winning.
thecommuteguy@reddit
I'm tired boss.
haworthsoji@reddit
Same dude. Same
Own-Neighborhood6828@reddit
Tell the Dems to stop pushing shitty free vehicles nobody wants
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haworthsoji@reddit
Dude get a grip. Do you think Democrats make vehicles???
Why don't you tell Donny to stop warring with other countries? Lol
Own-Neighborhood6828@reddit
Nah, they only push regulations that push automakers to make specific vehicles
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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MattDaaaaaaaaamon@reddit
Aftereffects of the previous administration run by the auto pen.
haworthsoji@reddit
You wish so bad it was autopen while your guy is sending us to war. You signing up for the draft?
MattDaaaaaaaaamon@reddit
Sorry, who's my guy now? There isn't an elected official in any position that I voted for.
Typical Redditor logic that there are only two sides and one is good and one is bad depending on which side you choose to be on. I oppose the war, support open borders, and just want the government to leave us alone, but I can be happy for those that have been lifted out of oppression in the Middle East and elsewhere in the world. Hopefully your worldview will mature.
haworthsoji@reddit
Welp I'm not the one that brought up politics attacking one side when you didn't know the other side was the one that signed it. Nice try
e92s65king@reddit
Nice strawman. The public has clearly had enough of the US printing trillions of dollars to continue subsidizing supply and demand of EVs. You really think the working class is a fan of CPI inflation so upper class folks can buy subsidized EVs?
patientpadawan@reddit
Sadly people who dont understand basic economics love to rail against stuff like ice cars and they buy them anyway. They wont actually pay the premium for evs and think other people should subsidize them. Regardless certain evs are actually profitable. I mean you can get a model 3 for 37k currently which is pretty damn cheap for what many consider a beginner luxury car. I think the main problem is they still are impractical for many people especially those who are renting and dont have home chargers
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
The "upper class" that makes less than $75k?
e92s65king@reddit
$300k is the tax subsidy couple limit.
I’m not sure what planet people are living in to think the general public will continue wanting to shoulder 5%+ inflation for the IRA. These subsidies on the back end are for upper class folks and the subsidies on the front end are for VC/equity folks (just imagine how much of that $7 billion dollars from the green H2 subsidies went to blue water partners, or how much of the upside on GM battery plant equity and for PE equity partners).
This is no issue from Reddit tech bros but comply disconnected from reality.
Iraqi-Jack-Shack@reddit
Unironically this IS a win for anyone who didn’t want the RSX bastardized into an NPC tier crossover like the Mustang Mach-E or Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross.
Recoil42@reddit
"Yes the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time we didn't have cars get names we didn't like."
Iraqi-Jack-Shack@reddit
See, you get it
dont_wear_a_C@reddit
Many are saying this
woowoo293@reddit
Can we agree that Zero is a terrible name for a car?
What_the_8@reddit
At least it’s not a Mitsubishi
Emotional_Signal7883@reddit
That's a deep cut
Imadethosehitmanguns@reddit
I didn't get it. Must have flown over my head.
AdmiralZassman@reddit
Really? The joke flew right into me
Kyo46@reddit
As a Japanese-American, I must say, that's a dark. But I approve lol
Kay1000RR@reddit
Really glad the joke didn't bomb.
Rocketsball@reddit
Well, He was determined there was no turning back.
tiagojpg@reddit
Mind blowing comment.
imagemkv@reddit
Mitsubishi actually releases their EVs
workswithpipe@reddit
Are they still making cars? Haven’t seen one in ages.
tiagojpg@reddit
They don’t really care now. Elevators, electric motors and HVAC systems are their thing. They’re everywhere.
itsamemarioscousin@reddit
In 2016 Channel 4 in the UK broadcast a high budget documentary called "Pearl Harbour: the New Evidence". In the corner of the ad for it was "sponsored by Mitsubishi".
Owe-No@reddit
What was the new evidence? Did the US actually shoot first?
tiagojpg@reddit
[redacted]
hutacars@reddit
Oh... and here I thought it was a reference to Mitsubishi's infamous 0-0-0 campaign.
BoringBob84@reddit
Last time I visited the Arizona Memorial in Pearl Harbor, it seemed like there were more visitors from Japan than from the mainland USA. It is obviously an important part of Japan's history also.
What_the_8@reddit
lol
Nefilim314@reddit
Crash safety ratings are not good
RedditPoster05@reddit
Still made the poison rings for it
Oo__II__oO@reddit
Sales would take a nosedive
deja-roo@reddit
I almost spit water out lol
holyhesh@reddit
I mean it’s not the first time a Japanese car has been called Zero
~~my Gran Turismo childhood is finally being used to reintroduce obscure cars, even if it’s to Americans~~
Drone30389@reddit
That looks like a Countach and a DeLorean had a baby.
hutacars@reddit
A Doutache, if you will.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
The Zero is just like Mustang, it’s iconic fighter aircraft in WW2. That’s reason why Japanese loving zero in most things.
DiddyEpsteinSixSeven@reddit
It's an amazing name for a car if it's built by Mitsubishi
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
I would love Kawasaki bringing their iconic aircraft nameplates in their motorcycles.
CaptainGo@reddit
The metal would be about as thin too!
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
Well it seems like it was fitting in hindsight?
German_Drive@reddit
Why?
CaptainGo@reddit
As a number it's fine but in English zero is more than just a numerical value, it's a synonym for null, nothing, blank, zilch, naught, etc.
ThePurpleBall@reddit
It was perfect, all to plan. They sold zero
ReaperThugX@reddit
I liked it. It plays off some of their heritage naming like the S600 and S2000. The 600 and 2000 were the engines’ displacement. With an electric motor, the displacement is 0
uncleawesome@reddit
Most names today aren’t names. Numbers and letters aren’t names.
baconandbobabegger@reddit
It’s already the name of an electric motorcycle company.
costafilh0@reddit
It's perfect, because Zero is the amount of profit they make on every unit.
SecretPantyWorshiper@reddit
At thid point I think Zero would be good, Negative is a more apt name 🤭
weeeboy@reddit
Great name for a Japanese airplane though!
M4roon@reddit
What happened to Honda? I don't really see any at all in Taiwan. There's one blue civic R in my neighbourhood and that's all I can recall.. ever..
People who want economic cars go for Corollas. Upper economy lexus and toyota crown. Sporty economy, mazda 3. People who can't afford cars get Nissans. Enthusiasts get 86's, Supras, Porsches, miatas. People in debt get BMWs. Boring people get Audis. Old men and the local mobsters get Mercedes.. And everyone else has a Tesla. 🤔🤔
Like.. Honda's got no piece of the pie.
DrZedex@reddit
But just yesterday r/cars promised me that EV sales would soar again with rising oil prices?
Delta_Mike_Sierra_@reddit
This is likely based on factors over the past 18 months not the past 2 weeks, big companies work on multi year cycles, there's planning what to release in 4 years time
costafilh0@reddit
18 months? Cars take years to develop and get to market. This is coming for a LONG time.
Drzhivago138@reddit
65 years ago, the first Chevy II was developed in 18 months. It was an incredibly fast effort even for the time, and was mostly Chevy copying Ford's work with the Falcon since the more exotic Corvair hadn't been the big hit they were hoping for. And we don't need to mention how much more complex cars have become since then.
Delta_Mike_Sierra_@reddit
In that if it was being weighed up 3/4 years ago then recent changes caused the decision
DrZedex@reddit
Oh I know; I'm being snarky.
weaponR@reddit
That's all the internet really is anymore. Just snark and AI.
DrZedex@reddit
You're forgetting pr0n. It's still mostly that.
Iraqi-Jack-Shack@reddit
You forgot that r/cars is now just r/electricvehicles2
_OUCHMYPENIS_@reddit
Chinese companies are taking huge chunks of business from Honda in any market that isn't Japan or North America. Same goes with Toyota but they are a way larger brand that has a large presence in a lot more markets. China is still a huge market for them but appears to be falling off quickly due to competition.
Honda sells a lot of motorcycles globally but when it comes to cars/trucks, they are barely present in Latin America, Africa, and Europe.
It's weird to travel to other countries and see maybe 2-3 Hondas a day when here in the states, every 4th to 5th car is a Honda.
mankak@reddit
Honda is being destroyed by EU regulations and pricing, a Honda civic in Greece costs north of 30k€, while it's competitors range from 20k-25k. Same thing happens to all cars that aren't small displacement hybrids, it is normal to see Japanese cars being sold 3x the price they are being sold in Japan.
Recoil42@reddit
Toyota sales were up in China last year.
_OUCHMYPENIS_@reddit
I thought I read they were struggling on the southeast Asian markets though?
That's impressive that they had their sales go up though. The reputation they've built is with merit. Maybe not as reliable as they used to be but still putting out some of the best overall vehicles on the market, outside of their ev offerings.
I really wish Honda would do more. It feels like every time they've put effort into doing something different, they hit it out of the park. But then they also have stuff like the crz which seems like a car that came too late and wasnt meant for this market.
MegaJoltik@reddit
In Indonesia, Toyota Group (Toyota+Daihatsu) still hold 50% market share in 2025.
One of the reason why Chinese cars don't hit Toyota hard here because Toyota offers car that cater to people's taste here (mainly indestructible cheap, compact 3-row vehicle). Something that Chinese brand don't have many (because their car mostly developed with chinese /europe market in mind).
Honda on the other hand, they used to be trailing right behind ToyoDai, now they are starting to fall behind even Suzuki and Mitsubishi. Their lineup for emerging market are just not competitive at all.
Recoil42@reddit
I wouldn't say struggling. Chinese OEMs are a new challenge to be sure, but Toyota sales were in-aggregate up globally last year too. They seem to be managing it just fine.
KingMario05@reddit
Not only that, they're investing in EVs when everyone else is bailing. The new domestic-made Highlander is the prime example, and they're even exporting it from Kentucky to Japan. Toyota always plays the long game here; let's see if it pays off. I think it will.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Let us seeing this year, we could probably see Toyota sales down. The main key isn’t about their EV effort, the problem is geopolitic between China and Japan going worse.
Recoil42@reddit
Maybe, but most of Toyota's China production is in China, so the only way I see that becoming a problem is if things get so bad consumer perception is shifted.
FledglingNonCon@reddit
Honda global sales are down almost 1/3rd vs 2019. Last year 3.7m vs 5.2m in 2019. That's a massive drop for formerly one of the world's strongest automakers. Without credible EVs they're going to keep shrinking, no matter how good their hybrids are. Although they should follow Toyota and make most of their popular cars hybrid only to buy them some time.
fhs@reddit
Yeah, if they had a good EV, I might consider them. When growing up, Hondas were the vehicles many of my friends had, Civic SI, integras, CRXs. The sound of vtec was great. They had better interiors than Toyotas. I had a Honda crv for many many years. Lovely K24 and really smart interior.
But I'm afraid they've fallen off now and there's really no reason to choose the brand vs other brands. Nostalgia can only take them so far
besselfunctions@reddit (OP)
GM's sales are down 40% from its peak. Automakers are not interested in making vehicles, not for a while.
saurabh8448@reddit
Honda dropped the ball in so many markets outside the US and Japan. In India, Honda had a pretty good reputation, and used to sell well, but they were slow a fuck in introducing new SUV models, and their market share has declined a lot.
Basically, they 3rd largest growing car market and said we ain't putting any effort. It's just weird to me.
takao-obi@reddit
The global car market is really splintering in terms of requirements between regions and that is calling out quite a few brands.
The reddit cars channel is quit US focused so a lot of people dunk on the German brands for their reduced profits but that some other brands are in real trouble and are writing losses because of other markets isn't that visible.
The car brands in the Euro market under pressure from losing sales to Chinese brands aren't the European ones it's the Japanese and Koreans.
If Honda knows that they can't sell enough EVs in the US then that also means they are screwed in Europe and China.
70% of all Subaru are sold in the US+ Canada. Without those markets buying EVs there will be only rebadged Toyota EVs from them.
Konrad62@reddit
Civic hybrid for last few years was more expensive then nicely equipped Camry hybrid in EU. They were insane with their pricing. Lately they come back to their senses, which kicked their hardcore customers on depreciation.
Aerospaced0ut@reddit
Honda has totally lost the thread.
They can still get it back but time is kinda running out at this point.
Sucks because I think I was the one person who was interested in the Saloon. Looked like a great form factor and beautiful interior at a good price.
SPorterBridges@reddit
Bring back the Honda E or I don't care.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
You want an expensive with low battery range small EV ? That was a reason Honda E sold poorly and finally discontinued.
hutacars@reddit
Cutest modern car IMO. I'd love one with a larger battery.
SPorterBridges@reddit
I want a cool looking, quirky compact EV and not an uggo SUV or truck. The price and especially the range sucked but the style was awesome. If they brought it back once battery tech improved or as a hybrid to mitigate the downsides, I'd be all over that.
AwesomeBantha@reddit
At least Afeela isn’t impacted, I wouldn’t want to miss the opportunity to travel to California to drop $90k on an EV sedan
awg08@reddit
Haha an EV living room on wheels with all kinds of subscriptions and screens. Who in the world thought this was a good idea?
Old_Ad_881@reddit
Why cant they just build a civic hatchback EV with 300 miles of range and like 250hp? Would be the best ev ever made.
awg08@reddit
My new Civic hybrid hatch already does this and better. No need for full EV.
What they need to do is add more power for AWD versions of the Civic and Accord hybrids.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
They have no idea how.
Considering the huge amount of ex-Honda talent at Tesla, they should just rebadge a bunch of Ys and call it good.
vw18t@reddit
No it’s not that they could do it but it’s not financially feasible. They simply wouldn’t make any profit on it. Where would they build it? North America, Japan? With heavy tariffs it doesn’t make any sense. And what price point would it sell at ?
An EV civic would certainly be more expensive than $35k we all know what happened to the base $35k Tesla Model 3. Look at the Prelude a hybrid that’s already expensive in the $40k range an EV civic would be even more and at that price point who’s buying a $45k-$50k EV civic?
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
If they were able to design a good EV they'd definitely be making profit. That's the issue, they're stuck and aren't able to compete.
It's been a best seller for almost a decade? That's exactly what they need to make.
You're agreeing with me here, they aren't competent enough to make an EV that costs less to make than to sell and so far, unlike Ford, they haven't taken steps to resolve this.
KingMario05@reddit
Amen. For all of Farley's faults, he remains committed to the Mach-E (cause it sells) and the idea of an affordable electric Ford. Their new Universal Electric platform should hopefully scare Honda into acting, especially if they follow up the pickup with an EV Focus and Escape.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say he's committed to the MME; he's mentioned multiple times that it's too expensive to build and only just ok, but it was an important lesson for them and he acknowledges that.
That experience got them to go all in on the UEV platform.
As for Honda, I've always liked them, but I don't really see them making the turn before it's too late.
KingMario05@reddit
Well, they said the UEP can be used for multiple vehicles. Presumably, one of those is a Kentucky-built, more powerful, longer range MME. The model sells - I see them all the time. It's just not making Ford enough cash, nor is it that much better than Elon's stuff. Farley wants to change both of those.
And as an aside: Taurus EV on the same platform, please. Come on, makes too much damn sense. Especially if BYD or Xiaomei can loan Ford the battery tech.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
Oh yeah, there'll definitely be a crossover based on UEV, I just don't know if it'll be called the MME or not.
The Mach-E is a hodgepodge of spare parts that got MacGyvered together. It's better than it should be, but it's not great and not really comparable at all with Tesla. Most important, it costs them probably $5k on every sale, so definitely not sustainable.
Farley has enough humility to admit it and then go hire people who know how to do it right, directly from the source.
KingMario05@reddit
I mean, they're pushing the Mustang brand hard. And the trademarks are already there. Why not try for a knockout second generation? Worst case scenario, they can always just rename it by the refresh.
Old_Ad_881@reddit
If nissan is able to make the leaf for 30k I think Honda could make a Civic EV for less than 40k and make money on it. I certainly would prefer that over a Model Y.
The civic has some of the best packaging and usability of any new car on the market. It is also extremely lightweight. Many people dont want all the tech associated with most EVs and a Civic EV would make an EV much more attractive for conservative car buyers.
EVs should be simpler cars than ICE but every EV is trying to be a smartphone on wheels so the reality is the opposite.
Vhozite@reddit
So the RDX is going on hiatus and now the RSX is being canned.
Not sure Honda could mismanage Acura harder if the tried
Old_Ad_881@reddit
The RSX was never going to replace the RDX. The ADX is going to absorb most of the RDX demand as they are basically the same size and the average consuner doesnt care about the performance advantages of the rdx.
Few-Top-9509@reddit
The ADX is clearly a step below the RDX in powetrain, material quality, and overall luxury. If I’m shopping for a RDX, I would not downgrade to the ADX, just jump ship to the Lexus NX or similar.
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magbarn@reddit
The ADX tries really hard to hide its HR-V roots, but it’s no RDX. Not even close. They’re going to lose thousands of customers to Lexus.
Old_Ad_881@reddit
You can get an ADX for 10k less than the cheapest Lexus SUV, the UX. The UX is also much smaller than the ADX.
I do not think anyone is cross shopping an ADX and a NX. The highest trim ADX is still 3-5k cheaper than a base NX.
Imo the CRV is the biggest competitor to the ADX.
magbarn@reddit
I think you misunderstood. They're going to lose their RDX customers to Lexus as Acura has no options with the RDX being in its last year.
teggyteggy@reddit
The RSX was the RDX's replacement. That's why the RDX is ending production. The ADX fills the subcompact space and it the CUV equivalent of the Integra.
Old_Ad_881@reddit
Despite being a Subcompact both the RDX and ADX are within a 1 inch in length and 2 inches of width, and the RDX only has \~5 Cu Ft more of cargo space.
They are basically the same size, the ADX is the biggest "subcompact" on the market.
Big_Accident494@reddit
I think you misread the reports. RDX ended production for 1 year. It's coming back in 2028. The RSX wasn't meant to replace anything.
Here's an official teaser of the 2028 RDX
https://burlappcar.com/2026/01/2028-acura-rdx-teaser.html
teggyteggy@reddit
Oh, you're saying it in the sense that an RDX hybrid was always going to come out. Maybe
shivaswrath@reddit
They are just writing things off to cushion things.
They had a remastered Chevy Blaze.
brianhofmann@reddit
To me, Honda is practically synonymous with gas cars...
ThickGur5353@reddit
Just shows that without subsidies, very few people want electric cars.
animerobin@reddit
We also subsidize gas cars
an_angry_dervish_01@reddit
I don't necessarily think it's that people don't want them, they just need to be priced accordingly and if that can't happen well they may as well be flying saucers.
quickly_@reddit
Honda needs to produce an affordable made in America ev to compete with the model 3, ev6 and ioniq 5.
The mass market won’t want another overpriced suv or supercar.
animerobin@reddit
We’re not making cars in America anymore bro
an_angry_dervish_01@reddit
It's astonishing that Honda can't do this when Tesla did it easily. The idea of blaming anyone else for this doesn't make sense, if Tesla is doing it then what is the problem?
animerobin@reddit
Aw man I thought those were cool. I just want a nice big electric family car that looks cool.
So much for bringing back American manufacturing lol
ja734@reddit
I had never even heard of the 0 before just now, but after looking at pictures, that thing is wild. Its like a gallardo had a baby with a prius.
flogman12@reddit
At this point, china has won the car wars. It’s over.
Jefefrey@reddit
Correct. America is actively regressing
dont_wear_a_C@reddit
No real losses for Honda if only 3 were produced
tarzanstango@reddit
Lol 15.7 billion lost, all the work of thousands of employees and contractors that have gone into making the ev just gone overnight. Years of design, thought, execution, assembly, install, just thrown away. Nothing lost at all
PercMastaFTW@reddit
No!! I was just thinking about the 0 series saloon today and was hoping there was new news.
I guess I should have been more specific.
This cat looked so freaking cool to me.
neleram@reddit
They should buy Lucid
Gold_Pangolin_Dragon@reddit
Shame. I thought the 0 sedan looked cool AF but I've always had a soft spot for (essentially) station wagons.
DaprasDaMonk@reddit
We might just need these vehicles after all lol
daxelkurtz@reddit
I'm a Honda fanboy, and I am actively shopping for EVs, and I am still fine with this.
Just give me a Honda e with a 6" lift so I can do the world's slowest doughnuts in the snow behind the Walmart. Don't give me a PS3 render of a crossover, idc.
an_angry_dervish_01@reddit
Same, kind of Honda for life. Best value, reliability and functionality. A big reason I do not own an EV is that Honda doesn't have a good version of a car I like in an EV model.
ferdiazgonzalez@reddit
The Aston Martin F1 will be delighted to hear that.
bwoah_gimmethedrink@reddit
I think both sides will be looking towards ending the relationship in a peaceful manner. Honda is wayyyy behind the competition and bringing their engine up to speed will require a ton of people and months of hard work (at least).
ferdiazgonzalez@reddit
Also partnering with a carmaker which has decided to ditch the very technology that you're relying on, doesn't really bode well.
statmelt@reddit
Are you referring to Honda ditching EVs?
ferdiazgonzalez@reddit
Yes. Having first-hand experience in developing a technology, even if its target market is different, provides a massive knowledge base to build upon.
Honda, by ditching their EVs, will only develop electric drivetrains in the context of F1. That's an extremely narrow context.
statmelt@reddit
I don't really understand that argument, because my understanding is that Honda has ditched EVs (which F1 doesn't use) to concentrate on ICE and hybrids (which F1 does use).
Kongary@reddit
I don't envy these auto execs trying to navigate this current environment. Very curious with how things will go with RDX in the next year or two. I know someone who has happily continued leasing each gen of RDX but the timing will be off on the next re-up. MDX is likely too big for them so it might be a new brand benefiting from the delay.
cat_prophecy@reddit
How is it that Tesla can make megabucks on electric cars but everyone else sucks at it?
Kirklistentowutang@reddit
Tesla makes jack shit in terms of money from car sales. Musk makes money on the brand by being the highest valued stock on the market for some stupid reason.
statmelt@reddit
My understanding is that Tesla's profitability is declining due to difficulty competing with cheaper Chinese EVs. They've had to drop their prices many times to stay competitive.
Fortunately for Tesla, they're shielded from that problem in the US market.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
It's harder than people thought and a lot of the people working at auto OEMs share this subs derision for them.
thechromatick@reddit
That thing was DOA. An Inferior vehicle built by GM for Honda. What were they thinking?
SnowmanTS1@reddit
That's a different car. They still sell one of those now.
thechromatick@reddit
Ohh :(.
Mrnini11@reddit
what are they going to do with their new battery facility they’re building in ohio
Arnas_Z@reddit
Probably use it for hybrids.
aoeudhtns@reddit
Psst, hey Honda. Bring the global HRV hybrid to the US as the Fit.
Masteguy635@reddit
Dang I was actually somewhat looking forward to the production version of the RSX. But if this means they can crank up the hybrids on all their models, this is a very good thing for them L.
Old_Ad_881@reddit
The EV RSX was going to fail horribly. A coupe SUV EV was never going to replace the RDX. Considering how horrifically the ZDX did, it was a good move.
WhateverItTakes117@reddit
It's crazy to me that the ZDX did poorly. I currently have a Blazer EV lease, and it's been fantastic. When my lease ends, I hope everyone still hates the ZDX. Because I will absolutely pick up a low mileage AWD one.
molrobocop@reddit
I think the world has changed enough that a 2-door suv just won't sell. As much as I loved the look of 2-door Pathfinder's and such.
BlueKnight44@reddit
Wait isn't Nissan only loosing like 5b this year...and Honda is loosing 5-7b.
Not trying to make the argument that Nissan is in a better financial position than Honda, but this makes the Nissan situation look comparively not that bad... Or Honda's situation look much worse.
dantose@reddit
Honda and Toyota should have been leaning into their strengths and making solid, reliable cars. My first new car was a stick shift corolla with crank windows. It was basic, reliable, and never caused me any issues other than a minor exhaust patch at one point. Other than that, oil, tires, battery. Honda has a similar reputation with the Civic, and I've personally had a great experience with the Fit (my second new car, and a seriously underappreciated model)
They could have made a modern EV version of that. Kind of like a slate truck as a sedan, and I would have bought it in a heartbeat.
African-Rain-Blesser@reddit
Counterpoint to this: Honda small displacement engines are fantastic, and they're great at interior utility, but the rest of the car is ho-hum. They tend to have more road noise, build quality is so-so, and the tech lags behind the competition. There's a reason why people say when you buy a Honda, you're getting a great motor, and they throw in the rest of the car for free.
dantose@reddit
Exactly. I think they'd do well if they took that same principle and applied it to EVs. Just work on locking in a really rock solid, trouble free powertrain, keep the rest simple.
Carvair-98@reddit
Afeela lives? I imagine, since that's in collaboration with Sony they can't simply drop that...but it'll be very interesting to see what the appetite is for a $90k (starting!) luxury EV sedan from a new brand. Something to really go head-to-head with the Lucid Air 🙃
Bored__Lord@reddit
Afeela is so weird to me because it looks a lot like a Lucid Air but costs significantly more and has significantly worse range and charging. Is there really someone cross-shopping these that picks the Afeela? Are they just banking on using the Sony/Honda name and hoping people don't cross-shop?
chipsnapper@reddit
I think Afeela is also going to be built/sold in Japan, so that’s probably a bigger priority.
ItsFuckingRawwwwwww@reddit
Being built in Ohio AFAIK.
JoeWIthTheGlasses@reddit
Afeela is built in US, google says in Ohio.
byfuryattheheart@reddit
I walked by an Afeela showroom the other day (never seen one) and the car they were showcasing had a Fortnite add displayed on a screen on the front of the car lol No thank you.
raginnation999@reddit
Yea the only EVs left standing would be that and the 0-Series Alpha that's made in India
alien_believer_42@reddit
Just in time for an oil crisis
Latios19@reddit
I totally agree with their statement where it mentions that they cannot keep up with the technology on other brands (China) Just talking about it the other day with a colleague, Kia is going to take a big chunk of the Pilot market with the new Tellu. Technology, overall concept, interior and exterior design, and efficiency is too strong for Honda to beat up. And you could say “well reliability from Kia” it may be kinda true. But Kia’s reliability is getting better, their warranty is 10y/100k and on top of that pricing. You’re getting more for the price point than a Pilot.
But Honda has been known for not being the most tech or luxury brand out there. Actually they don’t do that, instead keeping a classic vehicle that drives nice, enough safety, and long lasting platforms.
Consumers these days are asking for more tech, and cheaper price. That’s what the Chinese brands are doing and definitely taking over the market outside the US.
FledglingNonCon@reddit
Honestly this is probably the right move. Not because EV demand won't continue to grow, but because these vehicles were almost certainly not going to be price and feature competitive with other vehicles on the market by the time they got into production. Honda's EV efforts have been a complete mess and not sure how they right the ship. At this point we're probably looking at 2030 at the earliest before they have a chance to get something to market that might be remotely competitive. Honestly at this point Nissan might somehow manage to outlast Honda.
DM725@reddit
Does that mean the Prologues are now collector's items now?
Choice_Student4910@reddit
Color me surprised
DiddyEpsteinSixSeven@reddit
Electric and ugly. 2 of the worst sins in the same vehicle is a bad idea
Repulsive-Club7866@reddit
Damn looks like Honda/Acura is “anti EV” now. I hope this means they will have a TLX successor instead.
turb0_encapsulator@reddit
seems like EV demand could surge like crazy now. Why wouldn't you wait to see what is going to happen with oil prices?
Castrol-5w30@reddit
News: "Oil prices are skyrocketing with the US attacks on Iran. Consumers and businesses further push for an EV future in the face of such uncertainty."
Honda a week later: "We are cancelling our EV plans."
Sea_Razzmatazz_4925@reddit
This really shows how brutal the EV transition is right now. Between tariffs, weak demand in the U.S., and crazy fast competition from Chinese automakers, even a company like Honda is struggling to keep up.
AirbnbNewhost@reddit
I do find it interesting they don't plan on cutting the Hydrogen FCEV - that only sells in California and comes with a 15-20k credit and got rid of the NSX factory to make.
WasabiSandwich@reddit
Seeing the design, I’m gonna say that’s a good thing…
deja-roo@reddit
Would prefer news without so much snotty commentary but sure
dynesor@reddit
Are they still going to build them somewhere else, but just not in the US? I was really looking forward to seeing some those weird wedge things on the road. Really cool looking design.
MY13FXT@reddit
It's ironic Honda's scaling back because of US tariffs, but also saying it's not continuing to make EVs if there's no incentive or forcing of its hand. But they recognize the bigger issue is they cannot compete against China, an ev auto manufacturing monolith.
Are we winning yet? /s
sablerock7@reddit
Has now been renamed the NULL series
BiglyBallsLOLs@reddit
Their timing is impeccable 🤣
RiftHunter4@reddit
Eating tariff costs in an economy that can't afford new cars will do that.
StinkySoggyUnderwear@reddit
What did you expect with their amazing electric/hybrid cars
costafilh0@reddit
surprised Pikachu face
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